Yeah man! You are so right. Three months ago, I started listening to adaptive audiobooks for different levels. I didn't wait for my speaking and writing skills to improve so quickly and so much. Now I spend ninety percent of my learning process listening. Now I can listen native speakers' material. The first two weeks were the hardest, but after that, when you get acustomed to it. You start consuming more and more different audio materials and every week it gets easier and easier.
@@AtramaTheOSM You can find them on TH-cam. All you have to do is type the following keyword into the search box: "English audiobook level 1-7" or "Graded reader English". Enter the number of the level you need, and that's all.
Please keep uploading useful content like this! It gives me hope to achieve native-speaker level. Appreciate your professional opinions! Hope one day I will speak like a native !
@@phoenixhou4486 很有用的视频 👍 老师说得不错。我的中文口音很差，但是我觉得我加班会提升。[I'll continue in English because I don't know enough vocabulary:] In these 3 months of learning, I've put most of my efforts on reading, listening and writing, but not much on my speaking. I can actually listen to a fast speaker and have an idea of how I would write that down in pinyin, but when it comes to speaking I'm very robotic. I've recently started speaking with a native speaker language partner, we play videogames together and chat in both, English and Chinese, and this is helping both of us.
As an English teacher, who's been teaching English for the past 12 years, I confirm what you said concerning the importance of input over output. I believe that being able to speak and write in a language is the result, not the cause, of acquiring that language.
You really give me a lot of inspiration to keep going on my path of language learning. My native language is Spanish and now I know English and soon I’ll be able to speak French and hopefully Korean. The list goes on!:)
actually they are both important for me, because i think the best way of learning English(or other language)is to improve those 4 skills "at the same time"
Bravo! Wish everyone could learn from this video. Schools and governments especially need to understand this and not just insist on the kids' engaging in speaking when they have nothing to say and can say nothing.
Small children always start out speaking making a lot of mistakes in their speech but they seem to work it out themselves in a few years. But I agree that lots of input is very important and I don’t think the schools I went to emphasized it nearly enough, particularly with regard to listening. In my self-study I spend most of my time practicing listening.
I think the speak from day one approach is a reaction to some learners who were too afraid to speak even though they were pretty good at other skills, but this has not really been my experience.
well, one counter argument is that small children are surrounded by adults who are constantly correcting their grammar, phrasing and pronunciation. while second language learners don’t have that kind of input.
it’s also possible that fossilisation doesn’t happen for children because their brains are much more plastic. when an adult learns new information, the new information is incorporated into the existing neural networks in their minds, so the can learn complex things more easily but perhaps find it harder to unlearn things because their neural networks are so much more complex it takes a lot more work to rewire them.
Yeah, the input vs output thing completely falls apart in first language acquisition. One thing that tickles me is when people argue that you acquire only through input or that you should postpone output and then make a comparison with young children. I always think: "you don't have kids, do you?" ^^ I mean, they just won't shut up lol, and that's true long before they pronounce anything recognisable as a word. A book you might enjoy is "The language game: how improvisation created language and changed the world" by Morten Christiansen and Nick Chater. It's overall just a fun read, but the main thesis is interesting: language is a "community-wide game of charades, where each new game builds on those that have gone before". And children acquire the language just by jumping into the game and extemporizing like everyone else. It's a nice thesis, one that fits rather nicely with the observation that if there is one group that absolutely cannot acquire a language through input alone, it is young children. We seem to be able to do that for second languages later on in life (though whether it's advisable to do so is debatable), but for young children language and socialisation are completely intertwined. Put a child under age 3 in front of a television with age-appropriate shows, and he will acquire nothing at all of the language, unless he also has opportunities to have real social interactions in the language. And if I want to reliably predict the verbal development of a baby a few years down the line, the best metric isn't too look at how much input he's getting from his parents; the best metric is to look at how many turns he has in an average conversation with them. The more involved kids are in conversations, the better their verbal development later on. SLA is a different ballpark, so it may be the case that input is more important than output there. Maybe. But that kind of distinction really doesn't make any sense for first language acquisition. I mean, you don't have to tell an infant to speak from day 1. He will, whether you want him to or not. ^^
I like to learn pronunciation first and then once I've learned the basics, alongside stuff like grammar and vocabulary. To be fair though I enjoy the pronunciation aspect the most because I find it satisfying when I can finally produce a sound that I previously wasn't able to. I learned how to roll my R's a while ago and I remember how excited I was. I can also make the sound in Turkish that is the i without the dot, still working on getting ö and ü consistently right. It's fun :)
Your videos give me hope. I'm currently learning Yoruba (which funny enough is supposed to be my native language so its already embarrassing enough not knowing how to speak it). I was already getting frustrated about not being able to speak it, but i can follow most conversations easy. I'll keep going. Thanks Phoenix!
You want about 10 times more input than out put and to leave output for last, and start outputting in writing, leaving speaking for LAST. This enables you to learn and get familiar with and hear the new sounds and rhythms of the foreign language. I nail my tones initials and finals in Chinese even the ones that don't exist in English because I did it this way. I never drilled bad habits because I waited for speech production to the very last. So there weren't things to unlearn, false connections, ingrained erroneous habits. You can absolutely have fun learning this way! And your language production will be much much better!
I agree, worry about input first than speak later on. What has helped me for speaking is getting a tutor to write a quick report which consists of some of the things I said incorrectly. Rather than explanations, I just want to see the sentence. This report is written in Japanese (my target language) too. By the way, Steve Kaufmann has said similar things about input vs output in the past. Happy to connect you two if you'd like. Keep up the good work, Phoenix.
You're not only the language master but also a man full of wisdom! I was the person who gave you the tips for pronouncing the Uyghur language on Bilibili.😁 And I've jst seen ur video on Bilibili now I accidentally saw u on TH-cam again! hahahahh you're gonna be hella amazing! keep it up man! But I'm still curious about why you wanna learn the Uyghur language tho hahh😅
Hi there. Thanks for the support! It's just pure curiosity about the people and the culture, and it's also the first Turkic language I've studied consistently.
@@phoenixhou4486 wow, that’s truly impressive! I believe that I have a lot to learn from your videos))) btw, if after you’ve conquered the Uyghur language, you could speak other languages as well such as Kazakh, Uzbek and Kyrgyz etc., probably you already know, these languages are pretty similar, and rich history behind them.
I agree with those theories a lot. I'm fluent in portuguese (my native language) and english. I started learning english in school so we only had two lessons a week, started when I was 10 and stopped having lessons when I was 18 but I'm pretty sure that most of the learning was watching american youtubers and watching movies. Y'know to get to know how the language is really spoken.. I'm currently learning french, german and starting japanese so let's see how this goes, focusing on input and all of that. Also, there's this youtuber called "Matt vs Japan", he made a video about this topic, it's worth looking.
Thanks for the recommendation! I'd love to study German as well but I've been too occupied with other stuff. Hope to start soon. Keep up the great efforts!
I think it's mainly because people don't try to improve, tbh. They try speaking early, say "alright, I got this part down," and keep learning other stuff, despite bad grammar or pronunciation. I got fluent in Spanish, and I can sometimes convince people that I'm a native speaker. I still make mistakes, but it's rare and I usually self-correct. But I can't tell you how many other English natives I've run into that understand Spanish perfectly, they listen to music, sometimes have traveled to Spanish speaking countries, but their accent is... horrible. And one thing I've noticed is that they'll revert to English (with specific words that Spanish speakers don't do this with). And this has honestly led me to believe that they just get used to the fact that English widely known, and that they can be understood just enough. So they just don't try to improve, and I'm convinced that they could if they wanted to.
honestly speaking, while watching k dramas and learning the alphabet made it easier to understand the phrases and words sometimes it just pops up in my head, I never really focused on output since I was fully immersed with the input
This is super interesting. Do you happen to know where I can read the research about fossilization caused by speaking incorrectly too early? I'm curious as to why it happens in second language learners, but not children who make mistakes while acquiring their first languages.
Thank you so much for introducing these theories! I've been abroad for four months and when I look back I feel so frustrated since I don't think myself making much progress in English(not just in speaking), which precisely described by the word 'fossilize'. Gonna change my strategy rn!
Yes, even if we know lots of words in another language, if we do not know the adverbs and conjonctions (i-e, whie, even if, not only but... ect...) , it is very difficult to explain something a bit complexe...
Different hypothesis of foreign language acquiring are intriguing. I wanna ask ,is there some hypothesis to explain why would I miss the last sentence after I say another,especially in the early beginning of a new language ?Thx
For some the input hypothesis feels counterintuitive, so I put together a video series #opetp to give people a personal experience of subconscious acquisition in the shortest possible time. It's 30 stories, 20 minutes each, in a tiny conlang called Toki Pona. I've interviewed 9 people who watched them all so far and they're all conversational.
Hi Phoenix, your sharing is so much inspiring and helpful! I have been learning English for almost 10 years and still have the heavy Chinese accent, and stammered a lot with speaking anxiety. I'm wondering if there's a way to overcome the obstacles to improve my language proficiency to next level? Thank you!
Hello everyone, I have been learning English by listening for a while and now I can understand most conversations and watch videos in English. I have also started doing shadowing, but I am not sure if what I am doing is effective. Besides, once we have enough input, can we speak automatically or do we need to go through some other practice? I would appreciate any advice from those who have gone through this process. Thank you!
I'm still not convinced that you can acquire the correct use of the Subjunctive Mood in Spanish (which is a "thing" in Spanish) primarily by listening and reading. With alot of verbs it's going to be hard to hear because the change can be as small as a vowel. It can be recognized while reading as there are subjunctive triggers but you have to study them and you have to recognize that a verb that you're reading is actually in the subjunctive. That, too, you have to study.
Thanks for the video. Is there anyway to defossilize? I'm afraid that my english has fossilized long time ago and I like to find a way to reverse that process.
@@phoenixhou4486 I think my conundrum is this: I write much more than I speak. And when I'm writing, I always type something first and correct for grammar later. However, when I do need to speak, I use the same process as that of writing. The result is that sentences coming out of my mouth do not really reflect the level of my english. I often make silly grammatical mistakes or confused sentence structure. I realise the mistakes as soon as I say them, but there's no backspace that I can hit after I say these words. Any advice on how I can fix this?
@@huanliu1449 I guess you need to practise copying things native speakers say rather than relying on your own 'original' content. Or maybe pause a little to think before you speak?
안녕하세요! 영상이 너무 좋고 너무 충격적이어서 (충격적으로 좋아서) 댓글을 남깁니다. 미성숙한 상태의 외국어 아웃풋이 좋지 않은 습관을 만든다는 것에 대해서는 정말로 처음 들었습니다. 정말로 좋은 내용을 영상으로 만들어주셔서 감사합니다. 영어 학습에 대해서(혹은 외국어 학습 일반에 대해서) 궁금한 점이 하나 있는데요, 언젠간 Q&A영상을 또 한번 만드신다면 그때 답변을 듣고 싶습니다. (만약에 피닉스님의 한국어 구독자가 늘어난다면, 한국어로 이야기해주시는 날도 꿈꿔봅니다 ㅎㅎ) "나 자신의 불완전한 문법, 표현, 발음, 뉘앙스를 효과적으로 캐치하는 방법이 있을까요?" 저는 중학교 1학년 때부터 20년 넘게 영어를 어설프게 배워왔습니다. 피닉스 님이 영상에서 말한 것처럼, 아주 높지도, 그렇다고 낮지도 않은 정도로 '석화'되었다고 볼 수도 있구요. 듣기: 원어민 화자의 발화를 90% 알아듣지만, 내용이 빠르거나 길어지면(예를 들어서 10분이 넘어가는 스피치나 강의를 들으면) 피로를 느끼고 그때부터는 정신이 나갑니다. 읽기/쓰기: 어휘력도 미국의 중학생 수준, 그리고 약간의 고급 어휘를 아는 정도인 것 같습니다. 자연스러운 말하기와 글쓰기에 필요한 충분한 어휘를 갖고 있지 못합니다. 말하기: 익숙한 짧은 문장은 제가 듣기에도 만족스러울 때가 있지만, 대부분의 경우에 어휘나 표현을 찾거나 더듬거리거나 문장을 자유자재로 길게 꺼낼 수 없습니다. 발음이나 뉘앙스도, 당연히 부정확하고 어색한 부분이 많습니다. 문제는 이것을 개선하기 위해서 내가 무엇을, 어디서 잘못하고 있는지를 잘 모르겠다는 점입니다. 한 언어가 갖는 문법과 어휘, 표현의 범주는 매우 넓습니다. 그렇다면 그 중에 내가 모르는 부분, 취약한 부분을 어떻게 해야 더 잘 발견할 수 있을까요? (그래서 그것들을 하나씩, 참을성있게, 시간을 들여서 개선해갈 수 있을까요?) 피닉스 님께서 한 언어를 원어민 수준으로, 충분히 마스터하는 과정에서 이 작업을 어떻게 해갔는지 몹시 궁금합니다. 즉 중간 단계의 성숙도에서, 원어민 사용자 수준의 고급/최고급 성숙도로 올라서는 과정에서 어떤 학습을 했는지 알고 싶습니다! 덧. 예전에 피닉스와 메사 여행을 한 적이 있는데, 뭔가 반가운 느낌입니다! 좋은 영상 늘 감사드립니다 :) I could write this in English, but hopefully this would be another chance to give you some input from a native South Korean.
@@gluehfunke1547 This question had to arrive one day I guess. Its a very good question. Nowadays people don't read, they watch videos as it requires less focus. Im just saying that if you're good at reading, you can assimilate and learn exponentially quicker. Whereas a video is a fixed time that cannot be watched faster, thus you learn way quicker by reading. Period. Take this example: If you can read very quickly, which eventually happens if you're interested and motivated, you will end up reading 3 or 4 books a day; whereas with videos you are bound with time, and theres only 24 hours in a day. Furthermore, there's a lot more preparation and study to write a book than to spit a video. And ofcourse you're not gonna practice with a book, but everything except live practice does not necessarily need a video.
God I feel like my English fossilized at an upper intermediate level. My pronunciation and grammar are passable but I make the same mistakes again and again unconsciously. But How can I fix this🚬
I think there has to be a balance. If you never practice writing or speaking, you will never be good at it, no matter how much you listen or read. What I`ve found is that we need to speak, but with native speakers who will correct us and replace our phrases or words with the more native ones.
Thank you for such wonderful insights which in my opinion can be generalised into leaning many other skills. To be excellent in some thing, you got to have a desire, then you look around to take in massive amount of comprehensible inputs and practise mindfully. You are an inspiration! 👍
I enjoy ur videos. I would disagree with having a teacher constantly correct you though (purely from a motivational standpoint). I think you may also be hard pressed to find long term studies on the impact of fossilization on acquiring a L2/3. Even then I would argue it’s not that important perhaps in research or academics only. For most learners who want to reach a conversational level with some mistakes just realize it’s gonna take a lot of time and both input and output (lots of them).
Stephan Krashen, the creator of the term comrehsible input. agrees. After much research they found that mistake correction is actually not so important and can be detrimental.
Agreed. Sort of figured this out from my own experience and observing others around me growing up. Made it easier to understand Mandarin and Spanish because of the constant input. Then, the research seems to bear this out as well. Having said that, the next step where tightening up grammar and some formal rules of the particular language should be done for progress.
You say that the research heavily backs the idea that talking early fossizilises your grammar, but then advocate for verbal correction of grammar, which I'm pretty sure the research is very much against
Research is against verbal correction because it kills the learner’s motivation and interest in the language, so it should be fine if the learner is physiologically prepared for and actively seeking corrections .
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i like the video but the word fossilised is strangely used. also, learning to speak before you understand the language through comprehensible input is extremely hard to achieve which is why most people give up. Listening is the only way to learn if you want to communicate in that language. how are you going to speak it if you don't hear it first? i agree with your video and will add that learning grammar before listening will stunt your growth. if you want to know how the language works, learn grammar but grammar will only add problems when speaking. you will end up using more processing time between words making your spoken sentences too long to hold a real conversation.
I can understand your words but my grammar is still terrible, maybe the grammar to understand is too little to speaking. Maybe it's my problem. My brain deal with the order terribally.
Yeah man! You are so right. Three months ago, I started listening to adaptive audiobooks for different levels. I didn't wait for my speaking and writing skills to improve so quickly and so much. Now I spend ninety percent of my learning process listening. Now I can listen native speakers' material. The first two weeks were the hardest, but after that, when you get acustomed to it. You start consuming more and more different audio materials and every week it gets easier and easier.
Hey! Where did you find adaptive audiobooks for different levels? Was it via an app or website?
@@AtramaTheOSM You can find them on TH-cam. All you have to do is type the following keyword into the search box: "English audiobook level 1-7" or "Graded reader English". Enter the number of the level you need, and that's all.
@@AtramaTheOSM TH-cam
Please keep uploading useful content like this! It gives me hope to achieve native-speaker level. Appreciate your professional opinions! Hope one day I will speak like a native !
I’m really glad you find it helpful! 💪🏼💪🏼
@@phoenixhou4486 很有用的视频 👍 老师说得不错。我的中文口音很差，但是我觉得我加班会提升。[I'll continue in English because I don't know enough vocabulary:] In these 3 months of learning, I've put most of my efforts on reading, listening and writing, but not much on my speaking. I can actually listen to a fast speaker and have an idea of how I would write that down in pinyin, but when it comes to speaking I'm very robotic. I've recently started speaking with a native speaker language partner, we play videogames together and chat in both, English and Chinese, and this is helping both of us.
@@sasino我们可以互相输出各自的语言We can export each other's languages, for example, I speak Chinese, then speak English, let's help each other
Always loved how you express your ideas, your personality and the mood of your videos. Cheers!
Thank you! I’m really glad you like it!
True I FELT the same!
As a long time language teacher this is exactly what I have discovered over years, on my own, counter to what i was "taught" in graduate school 👍
As an English teacher, who's been teaching English for the past 12 years, I confirm what you said concerning the importance of input over output. I believe that being able to speak and write in a language is the result, not the cause, of acquiring that language.
You really give me a lot of inspiration to keep going on my path of language learning. My native language is Spanish and now I know English and soon I’ll be able to speak French and hopefully Korean. The list goes on!:)
Glad you like it! Keep up the great work!
@@phoenixhou4486upu😅uu
Courage !! J’espère que tu as continué sur ta lancée en français !
actually they are both important for me, because i think the best way of learning English(or other language)is to improve those 4 skills "at the same time"
Bravo! Wish everyone could learn from this video. Schools and governments especially need to understand this and not just insist on the kids' engaging in speaking when they have nothing to say and can say nothing.
Small children always start out speaking making a lot of mistakes in their speech but they seem to work it out themselves in a few years. But I agree that lots of input is very important and I don’t think the schools I went to emphasized it nearly enough, particularly with regard to listening. In my self-study I spend most of my time practicing listening.
I think the speak from day one approach is a reaction to some learners who were too afraid to speak even though they were pretty good at other skills, but this has not really been my experience.
well, one counter argument is that small children are surrounded by adults who are constantly correcting their grammar, phrasing and pronunciation. while second language learners don’t have that kind of input.
it’s also possible that fossilisation doesn’t happen for children because their brains are much more plastic. when an adult learns new information, the new information is incorporated into the existing neural networks in their minds, so the can learn complex things more easily but perhaps find it harder to unlearn things because their neural networks are so much more complex it takes a lot more work to rewire them.
Yeah, because they've had thousands of hours of input before that.
Yeah, the input vs output thing completely falls apart in first language acquisition. One thing that tickles me is when people argue that you acquire only through input or that you should postpone output and then make a comparison with young children. I always think: "you don't have kids, do you?" ^^ I mean, they just won't shut up lol, and that's true long before they pronounce anything recognisable as a word.
A book you might enjoy is "The language game: how improvisation created language and changed the world" by Morten Christiansen and Nick Chater. It's overall just a fun read, but the main thesis is interesting: language is a "community-wide game of charades, where each new game builds on those that have gone before". And children acquire the language just by jumping into the game and extemporizing like everyone else.
It's a nice thesis, one that fits rather nicely with the observation that if there is one group that absolutely cannot acquire a language through input alone, it is young children. We seem to be able to do that for second languages later on in life (though whether it's advisable to do so is debatable), but for young children language and socialisation are completely intertwined. Put a child under age 3 in front of a television with age-appropriate shows, and he will acquire nothing at all of the language, unless he also has opportunities to have real social interactions in the language. And if I want to reliably predict the verbal development of a baby a few years down the line, the best metric isn't too look at how much input he's getting from his parents; the best metric is to look at how many turns he has in an average conversation with them. The more involved kids are in conversations, the better their verbal development later on.
SLA is a different ballpark, so it may be the case that input is more important than output there. Maybe. But that kind of distinction really doesn't make any sense for first language acquisition. I mean, you don't have to tell an infant to speak from day 1. He will, whether you want him to or not. ^^
I like to learn pronunciation first and then once I've learned the basics, alongside stuff like grammar and vocabulary. To be fair though I enjoy the pronunciation aspect the most because I find it satisfying when I can finally produce a sound that I previously wasn't able to. I learned how to roll my R's a while ago and I remember how excited I was. I can also make the sound in Turkish that is the i without the dot, still working on getting ö and ü consistently right. It's fun :)
Interesting. As an English Speaking foreigner who learned Turkish, I commend your efforts to master your pronunciation in the L2.
Thank you for the video, Phoenix! Really glad to be watching this early on in my language journey
Hope it helps!😝
Your videos give me hope. I'm currently learning Yoruba (which funny enough is supposed to be my native language so its already embarrassing enough not knowing how to speak it). I was already getting frustrated about not being able to speak it, but i can follow most conversations easy. I'll keep going. Thanks Phoenix!
It’s awesome to hear finally someone’s studying a native African language!
You want about 10 times more input than out put and to leave output for last, and start outputting in writing, leaving speaking for LAST.
This enables you to learn and get familiar with and hear the new sounds and rhythms of the foreign language. I nail my tones initials and finals in Chinese even the ones that don't exist in English because I did it this way. I never drilled bad habits because I waited for speech production to the very last. So there weren't things to unlearn, false connections, ingrained erroneous habits.
You can absolutely have fun learning this way! And your language production will be much much better!
I am going to try that. I normally listen ,then speak. I have stopped writing for awhile.
I just subscribed. Hope your channel will become viral.
Thanks for the sub!
I agree, worry about input first than speak later on. What has helped me for speaking is getting a tutor to write a quick report which consists of some of the things I said incorrectly. Rather than explanations, I just want to see the sentence. This report is written in Japanese (my target language) too.
By the way, Steve Kaufmann has said similar things about input vs output in the past. Happy to connect you two if you'd like.
Keep up the good work, Phoenix.
Currently on my Chinese language journey, thanks for your ideas!
Best of luck on your Chinese-learning journey!
我需要它！
Big thanks for your ideas/advice, it completely make sense and i am glad that am going into the right direction.
一边看一边点头，果然实践者的分享非常硬核。真是从最底层逻辑和原理--心理因素、思维方式和生理因素几个维度解释学习语言这回事，感谢！🤗
hi, i'm from japan and a foreign language learner. i do like your pronunciation🙌
Thank you!!
You're not only the language master but also a man full of wisdom! I was the person who gave you the tips for pronouncing the Uyghur language on Bilibili.😁 And I've jst seen ur video on Bilibili now I accidentally saw u on TH-cam again! hahahahh you're gonna be hella amazing! keep it up man! But I'm still curious about why you wanna learn the Uyghur language tho hahh😅
Hi there. Thanks for the support! It's just pure curiosity about the people and the culture, and it's also the first Turkic language I've studied consistently.
@@phoenixhou4486 wow, that’s truly impressive! I believe that I have a lot to learn from your videos))) btw, if after you’ve conquered the Uyghur language, you could speak other languages as well such as Kazakh, Uzbek and Kyrgyz etc., probably you already know, these languages are pretty similar, and rich history behind them.
I agree with those theories a lot. I'm fluent in portuguese (my native language) and english. I started learning english in school so we only had two lessons a week, started when I was 10 and stopped having lessons when I was 18 but I'm pretty sure that most of the learning was watching american youtubers and watching movies. Y'know to get to know how the language is really spoken.. I'm currently learning french, german and starting japanese so let's see how this goes, focusing on input and all of that. Also, there's this youtuber called "Matt vs Japan", he made a video about this topic, it's worth looking.
Thanks for the recommendation! I'd love to study German as well but I've been too occupied with other stuff. Hope to start soon. Keep up the great efforts!
@@phoenixhou4486 You too man! Take care
I think it's mainly because people don't try to improve, tbh. They try speaking early, say "alright, I got this part down," and keep learning other stuff, despite bad grammar or pronunciation. I got fluent in Spanish, and I can sometimes convince people that I'm a native speaker. I still make mistakes, but it's rare and I usually self-correct.
But I can't tell you how many other English natives I've run into that understand Spanish perfectly, they listen to music, sometimes have traveled to Spanish speaking countries, but their accent is... horrible. And one thing I've noticed is that they'll revert to English (with specific words that Spanish speakers don't do this with). And this has honestly led me to believe that they just get used to the fact that English widely known, and that they can be understood just enough. So they just don't try to improve, and I'm convinced that they could if they wanted to.
You're right! Thanks a lot for your advices. Greetings from Argentina
Thanks for your support! Gracias amigo!
video gives a very cozy feel. nice southern accent and beer.
谢谢你，作者大大！我正在学习日语，坚持comprehensive input原则，不断听，尝试用日文思考。可是自己的日文能力跟中文英文真的差很远，而且进步很慢，难免有些沮丧。不过看到这条视频又充满了信心，我才学两个月，一定是要继续坚持才会有收获。希望有天我也能讲一口流利的日文😊
You sound like a southerner from the United States very good English!
Thanks! My accent is really all over the place. I sound a bit different everyday haha
Take good care of yourself and your loved ones in Shanghai
- ❤️ from NYC
Thank you! The same to you too!
Thank you so much….your videos are super useful 🥺❤️
honestly speaking, while watching k dramas and learning the alphabet made it easier to understand the phrases and words sometimes it just pops up in my head, I never really focused on output since I was fully immersed with the input
This is super interesting. Do you happen to know where I can read the research about fossilization caused by speaking incorrectly too early? I'm curious as to why it happens in second language learners, but not children who make mistakes while acquiring their first languages.
Thank you so much for introducing these theories! I've been abroad for four months and when I look back I feel so frustrated since I don't think myself making much progress in English(not just in speaking), which precisely described by the word 'fossilize'. Gonna change my strategy rn!
Muchas gracias por este contenido 🙂👏🏻
Gracias!
Yes, even if we know lots of words in another language, if we do not know the adverbs and conjonctions (i-e, whie, even if, not only but... ect...) , it is very difficult to explain something a bit complexe...
Happy to see you. Thank you.
Thanks!
Different hypothesis of foreign language acquiring are intriguing. I wanna ask ,is there some hypothesis to explain why would I miss the last sentence after I say another,especially in the early beginning of a new language ?Thx
今天我遇到你的平道，我觉得你学新语言的概念很赞。我刚开始学我第三个语言，但我忘了学第二个语言的循序，这个视频让我重新学习怎么进行！
不是“平道”，是“频道”😁
@@jadet.9563 好啦🤣
For some the input hypothesis feels counterintuitive, so I put together a video series #opetp to give people a personal experience of subconscious acquisition in the shortest possible time.
It's 30 stories, 20 minutes each, in a tiny conlang called Toki Pona. I've interviewed 9 people who watched them all so far and they're all conversational.
I understand this easier than my latest 3 credits of Language Learning course at Uni
well said!! It did give me a lot to think about. Thanks! Mr.?
Does shadowing enhance fluency though? I've heard conflicting opinions.
Ur vids are the most helpful inputs❤ 谢谢
Thank you! I’m really glad you find them helpful
So true! Comprehensible input is the only technique that works. I’m learning japanese and comprehensible input is the only way that works for me
Every human, doesn’t matter what age, has the ability to understand ANY language just by learning through comprehensible input
Hi Phoenix, your sharing is so much inspiring and helpful! I have been learning English for almost 10 years and still have the heavy Chinese accent, and stammered a lot with speaking anxiety. I'm wondering if there's a way to overcome the obstacles to improve my language proficiency to next level? Thank you!
I would say practice and shadow for at least 30 min every day and you will see results in a few months.
Yes. Definitely.
Ton français est vraiment de haut niveau dans cette vidéo 🥸.
😂😂😂😂😂
Thanks to this video, keep uploading videos like this. :)
Glad you like it! I’ll try my best to produce useful contents life this !
Hello everyone, I have been learning English by listening for a while and now I can understand most conversations and watch videos in English. I have also started doing shadowing, but I am not sure if what I am doing is effective. Besides, once we have enough input, can we speak automatically or do we need to go through some other practice? I would appreciate any advice from those who have gone through this process. Thank you!
thanks! super informative
he is my role model.
I totally agree!
I'm still not convinced that you can acquire the correct use of the Subjunctive Mood in Spanish (which is a "thing" in Spanish) primarily by listening and reading. With alot of verbs it's going to be hard to hear because the change can be as small as a vowel. It can be recognized while reading as there are subjunctive triggers but you have to study them and you have to recognize that a verb that you're reading is actually in the subjunctive. That, too, you have to study.
¡Me gusta ver tus vídeos!
gracias！
you are my hero!👽
You are right.
Beautiful!
Thanks for the video. Is there anyway to defossilize? I'm afraid that my english has fossilized long time ago and I like to find a way to reverse that process.
Yes you can. But it requires a great amount of dedication and you have to pay attention to your grammar when you produce output
@@phoenixhou4486 I think my conundrum is this: I write much more than I speak. And when I'm writing, I always type something first and correct for grammar later. However, when I do need to speak, I use the same process as that of writing. The result is that sentences coming out of my mouth do not really reflect the level of my english. I often make silly grammatical mistakes or confused sentence structure. I realise the mistakes as soon as I say them, but there's no backspace that I can hit after I say these words. Any advice on how I can fix this?
@@huanliu1449 I guess you need to practise copying things native speakers say rather than relying on your own 'original' content. Or maybe pause a little to think before you speak?
This is on point 💯
好棒！醍醐灌顶！深思中
嘿嘿谢谢捧场！
交流是一种互动式学习方式，他会让你的大脑被动去记忆对方的说话习惯和单词意思，同时大脑的理解也比你主动学习要深刻形象的多，所以更利于学习和掌握一门语言。
Thanks!
Great video
Thanks!
안녕하세요! 영상이 너무 좋고 너무 충격적이어서 (충격적으로 좋아서) 댓글을 남깁니다.
미성숙한 상태의 외국어 아웃풋이 좋지 않은 습관을 만든다는 것에 대해서는 정말로 처음 들었습니다. 정말로 좋은 내용을 영상으로 만들어주셔서 감사합니다.
영어 학습에 대해서(혹은 외국어 학습 일반에 대해서) 궁금한 점이 하나 있는데요, 언젠간 Q&A영상을 또 한번 만드신다면 그때 답변을 듣고 싶습니다.
(만약에 피닉스님의 한국어 구독자가 늘어난다면, 한국어로 이야기해주시는 날도 꿈꿔봅니다 ㅎㅎ)
"나 자신의 불완전한 문법, 표현, 발음, 뉘앙스를 효과적으로 캐치하는 방법이 있을까요?"
저는 중학교 1학년 때부터 20년 넘게 영어를 어설프게 배워왔습니다. 피닉스 님이 영상에서 말한 것처럼, 아주 높지도, 그렇다고 낮지도 않은 정도로 '석화'되었다고 볼 수도 있구요.
듣기: 원어민 화자의 발화를 90% 알아듣지만, 내용이 빠르거나 길어지면(예를 들어서 10분이 넘어가는 스피치나 강의를 들으면) 피로를 느끼고 그때부터는 정신이 나갑니다.
읽기/쓰기: 어휘력도 미국의 중학생 수준, 그리고 약간의 고급 어휘를 아는 정도인 것 같습니다. 자연스러운 말하기와 글쓰기에 필요한 충분한 어휘를 갖고 있지 못합니다.
말하기: 익숙한 짧은 문장은 제가 듣기에도 만족스러울 때가 있지만, 대부분의 경우에 어휘나 표현을 찾거나 더듬거리거나 문장을 자유자재로 길게 꺼낼 수 없습니다. 발음이나 뉘앙스도, 당연히 부정확하고 어색한 부분이 많습니다.
문제는 이것을 개선하기 위해서 내가 무엇을, 어디서 잘못하고 있는지를 잘 모르겠다는 점입니다.
한 언어가 갖는 문법과 어휘, 표현의 범주는 매우 넓습니다. 그렇다면 그 중에 내가 모르는 부분, 취약한 부분을 어떻게 해야 더 잘 발견할 수 있을까요?
(그래서 그것들을 하나씩, 참을성있게, 시간을 들여서 개선해갈 수 있을까요?)
피닉스 님께서 한 언어를 원어민 수준으로, 충분히 마스터하는 과정에서 이 작업을 어떻게 해갔는지 몹시 궁금합니다.
즉 중간 단계의 성숙도에서, 원어민 사용자 수준의 고급/최고급 성숙도로 올라서는 과정에서 어떤 학습을 했는지 알고 싶습니다!
덧. 예전에 피닉스와 메사 여행을 한 적이 있는데, 뭔가 반가운 느낌입니다!
좋은 영상 늘 감사드립니다 :)
I could write this in English, but hopefully this would be another chance to give you some input from a native South Korean.
댓글을 남기셨어 감사합니다! 제가 이 문제들 정리해서 나중에 다시한번 Q&A를 해보도록 하겠습니다!
@@phoenixhou4486 와 엄청 빨리 댓글 남기시네요 ㅋㅋㅋ 기대하겠습니다. 늘 건강하세요!
it may be 1AM my time but i am fuckin' here for it
Haha thank you! It’s absolutely okay if you watch it tmr tho haha
超同意！此外我发现给输入和输出搞平衡蛮难的，输入少了输出质量上不去，输出少了就学成了哑巴xx语。
拿起小板凳 坐等第一排😁
So in general how much grammar should we study from grammar books?
I always focus on grammar when I start a language. Adults could only learn grammar through deliberate study.
@@phoenixhou4486 thanks!
@@gluehfunke1547 This question had to arrive one day I guess. Its a very good question. Nowadays people don't read, they watch videos as it requires less focus. Im just saying that if you're good at reading, you can assimilate and learn exponentially quicker. Whereas a video is a fixed time that cannot be watched faster, thus you learn way quicker by reading. Period. Take this example: If you can read very quickly, which eventually happens if you're interested and motivated, you will end up reading 3 or 4 books a day; whereas with videos you are bound with time, and theres only 24 hours in a day. Furthermore, there's a lot more preparation and study to write a book than to spit a video. And ofcourse you're not gonna practice with a book, but everything except live practice does not necessarily need a video.
因为所有的baby 都是先会听，然后才学会说😊
勉強になりました ありがとうございます。
大佬保重，stay safe in Shanghai
谢谢！
真的厲害，bro
I agree with you
我很惊讶你的微博粉丝怎么这么少，明明都是很优质的内容！
哈哈最近已經多了不少了
wooow, so handsome plus great content
我自己也自学好集中语言，请问一下我现在一直在hello talk的朋友互相学习，你说的读，请问一下包括哪些内容？读课本的句子吗？视频的句子吗？还是视频或者听力的句子跟着读？谢谢！
最开始跟教材，后来慢慢开始接触自己喜欢的内容。
quick question: are you a native English speaker?
Haha nope. Mandarin Chinese is my only native language.
@@phoenixhou4486 haha that's crazy dude, your enunciation is really good! Nice work!
@@phoenixhou4486 Your diction is scarily impressive 😨
God I feel like my English fossilized at an upper intermediate level. My pronunciation and grammar are passable but I make the same mistakes again and again unconsciously. But How can I fix this🚬
佩服。佩服。佩服。
input (Listening and Reading) is more vital than output. (unless you have a teacher who's ready to correct you.
我感觉我说话完全注意语法说的比较慢卡一点。 不注意完全注意会流畅一点，但是有时候说过之后会意识到自己说错了。 是因为积累的还不够多吗？ 那种比较好呢？
能意识到就很好 ，这点很重要，说错之后在心理改正就行。
我很同意
是啦！ 今天也谢谢你的分享 可以加快更新吗～
谢谢！我尽量 平时要工作哈哈
On point
UP主可能忽略了一点，交流可以帮助你更快的掌握一门语言。虽然可能会有一些弊端，但作为一门语言学习者，语言更多的是用来交流，而不是用来标榜自己的语言掌握水平。就比如说如果你身处一个母语国家去学习他们的母语，交流和不交流对于学习语言的效率是显而易见的，交流的话你通常不会超过3个月就能熟练掌握一门语言，也不需要特意去记语法和词汇，但如果你不交流，可能对于一些学习不用功或者不上心的人来说3年恐怕你都无法做到跟人正常对话。
哥，能不能完整出一期学习外语的方法？
爭取💪🏼
@@phoenixhou4486 非常感谢！等很久了
I think there has to be a balance. If you never practice writing or speaking, you will never be good at it, no matter how much you listen or read. What I`ve found is that we need to speak, but with native speakers who will correct us and replace our phrases or words with the more native ones.
helpful.这样的内容请来一打
哈哈哈哈收到！
Yes
Thank you for such wonderful insights which in my opinion can be generalised into leaning many other skills. To be excellent in some thing, you got to have a desire, then you look around to take in massive amount of comprehensible inputs and practise mindfully.
You are an inspiration! 👍
I guess so!
在我的认为里，为啥听比说重要（因为读和写属于高效率AI替代，优先级最后，除非学术），因为对于语言来说，最重要的是沟通，最重要是要听懂对方在说什么，大致意思是什么，而自己要说的，比如英语，会有几十种的回答都能反应出你要说的话，对于非语言专业的人来说，口语母语化真的重要吗？如果用母语来回答，可能只有几个句式，或者是一个句式，但是Why,我本就不是母语者，听懂再回馈才是最重要的，哪怕我要表达的意思是次级的，表达是一种惯性，就像程序里面的，first，else, or…只不过把它变为本能而已。有效性，效率，我认为才是语言的本质，没有人会为了一生中半个小时的阅读或者谈话，而去学习一门新的语言，这是不符合价值的。仅仅出于我个人观点。
I enjoy ur videos. I would disagree with having a teacher constantly correct you though (purely from a motivational standpoint). I think you may also be hard pressed to find long term studies on the impact of fossilization on acquiring a L2/3. Even then I would argue it’s not that important perhaps in research or academics only. For most learners who want to reach a conversational level with some mistakes just realize it’s gonna take a lot of time and both input and output (lots of them).
Well output should be fine as long as the learner is aware of his mistakes
Stephan Krashen, the creator of the term comrehsible input. agrees. After much research they found that mistake correction is actually not so important and can be detrimental.
Agreed. Sort of figured this out from my own experience and observing others around me growing up. Made it easier to understand Mandarin and Spanish because of the constant input.
Then, the research seems to bear this out as well.
Having said that, the next step where tightening up grammar and some formal rules of the particular language should be done for progress.
You say that the research heavily backs the idea that talking early fossizilises your grammar, but then advocate for verbal correction of grammar, which I'm pretty sure the research is very much against
Research is against verbal correction because it kills the learner’s motivation and interest in the language, so it should be fine if the learner is physiologically prepared for and actively seeking corrections .
Hello🦩🦤🦜🦜🦜🐥🐤🐣, 🐦
God the Father loves you so much that He sent Holy and Sinless Jesus (His Holy Son) to earth to be born of a virgin.He grew up and died on a cross for our sins. He was in the tomb for 3 days, then Father God raised Jesus Christ (Y'shua) to Life! He appeared to people and went back to Heaven. We must receive Jesus sincerely to be God's childJohn 1:12. "But as many as received Him, to them He gave power to become the sons of God, even to them that BELIEVE on HIS name." That is great news! Will you sincerely receive Holy, Lord Jesus into your life today?
where have you been all my life dude
i like the video but the word fossilised is strangely used. also, learning to speak before you understand the language through comprehensible input is extremely hard to achieve which is why most people give up. Listening is the only way to learn if you want to communicate in that language. how are you going to speak it if you don't hear it first? i agree with your video and will add that learning grammar before listening will stunt your growth. if you want to know how the language works, learn grammar but grammar will only add problems when speaking. you will end up using more processing time between words making your spoken sentences too long to hold a real conversation.
Sorry I forgot to introduce the term. Fossilization is a specific term used in SLA.
本当か
Because you’re a native Mandarin speaker, did you find English hard to learn?
Not very hard 🤔
I can understand your words but my grammar is still terrible, maybe the grammar to understand is too little to speaking. Maybe it's my problem. My brain deal with the order terribally.
🥰