I don't know why people continually miss the point of old modules detailing "places the PCs never go." How do you know they won't go there? Some players immediately want to break the "rule", some are intrigued by the closed gate/door, and some invent dumb conspiracy theories to investigate. How many thief characters and/or parties tried to break into the guild house? Or wanted to pickpocket the elf in the tower? And I 've had at least 3 groups over the decades come back to take over the Keep and use it as their fort (or get crushed by the Realm army). It also ups the usability of the module. When we paid $5 1970's dollars for these, we used every piece we could. I used the B1 lower level map a a wilderness cave for random encounters, and the Keep when I needed a random wilderness castle (a very common random encounter in 0E/1E/BX). Finally, Gary specifically set up those areas to be "unlocked" during play. The intro explains that after great success the players will be feted and (if not "boors" or whatever Gygaxian he used) they'll get access to the Inner Bailey. Same for the guild house, there's a merchant captive (with the gnolls I think) that if rescued will become a contact for the players. None of these things are problems, they're intentional design choices that made the Keep what it is. If it was junk, we all would have ignored it and made some other dungeon to use. Instead, to this day some people always use it to start campaigns,and its pieces have been used and re-used in more campaigns than will ever be live-streamed.
I actually agree. It’s just the 200 hundred troops in each tower with all their equipment is a lot of space. It confused me when I was a kid because if you write it, the reader assumes it’s critical. In that regard, I think the inner Bailey is over described. BTW-I frequently criticize my own published modules for being too wordy!
Orc guard: "Orc chieftain, tell me again what is my purpose to guard this one treasure chest in this otherwise, empty room?" Orc Chieftain: "Your just there to be killed"
We always assumed "The Cave of the Unknown" was where module B1 was located. Which we never played because that module was too much work for 11 year olds.
I play this on a bus ride to South Carolina. My seat mate was the DM. We played without dice. Since rolling on a bus is impractical. I had a ball playing an adventure an when I got off the bus I got the module from my seatmate. Then I ran it for my brother an friends an we had an amazing time.
I both played and ran "Keep" back in the 80s and had a good time with it. I later came to think of it as a really stupid piece of work, and have only recently come to realize that my priorities were badly out of whack. I soured on it by stepping back and thinking about the *world* of the keep as an ecology. It made no sense. All these monsters packed into a little network of caves in a single ravine, within a couple hundred yards of each other. It was like an Apartment Complex of Evil. I wondered: is there a pool? a clubhouse? visitor parking? Sure, there were little notes about different tribes being antagonistic to each other, but for God's sake, no one even bothered to post a *guard* outside their cave. The party should have set off about six different alarms the moment they set foot in that ravine. And then, the Keep. Garrisoned with dozens of well-armed soldiers, led by, if I recall, a sixth level fighter or something with magic armor and sword. That's to say nothing of the various spell casters around. They could have cleared out a few goblins and hobgoblins living three miles down the road, no problem. Well. I think these are valid criticisms, and I would like the module more if the seven or eight caves were scattered about and there was more advice on hooking characters into exploring and do-gooding. Still, one of the things hanging out in the OSR has made me do is criticize my own criticism. Hey mister fancy pants world-smither: did you HAVE FUN with this adventure? Well...yes. Yes I did. Great sense of place. Stories arise out of the players' actions, lots of ways to build on the published content. There's a keep. There's a cave. Peril and reward await. Go get 'em, champ!
Back in the day the DM was expected to flesh out modules like this. The idea was that they provided DMs with the framework to work with but, things like backstory, NPCs characters, towns, monsters and so forth was supposed to be added by the gamemaster, thus allowing for unique blends of creativity. Also rules were "guidelines" and modules were that also. Any DM had the freedom to deviate from whatever was written in a module, adding or taking away things as he or she felt was necessary. Judge classic modules by today's gaming standards is pretty silly, especially when many of the classic modules were test run sort of affairs. The best modules generally helped to expand the game, and helped make game play better. You can see D&Ds development and progression just by looking at TSR's modules. Compare any module from the late '80s to one from the '70s and early '80s and you're going to find a world of difference. The artwork is better. The maps are better, and frankly, the writing is generally better too. Modules did start to lean to be more linear, for better or worse, and before long TSR's modules evolved into complete adventures, fully fleshed out, but back in the day a large part of a module was hung on the shoulders of the DM. A good DM with an imagination and the ability to paint pictures with words was all you needed to play any scenario. Modules were only a small part of gaming, and miniatures and all that weren't used with the frequency they are used to day either. There was a lot more home brewed, theater of the mind games. Many DMs I knew rarely ran modules, while others used them almost always. To some DMs they were just reference examples showing how to run adventures. Some DMs would read them, borrow a few ideas and suggestions from them, and proceed to write out their own stuff. Guidelines and references. That's all ANY of the old books ever were.
Fun fact about the 3D map of the keep - it's the map used in the 4th Edition version of Keep on the Borderlands, where it also got an actual name, Restwell Keep. Given that the map has numbers, that looks to be the version from Dungeon 176 (I recently got pdf copies of both the 4E Keep on the Borderlands and Dungeon 176 for personal use).
It was only through the early 80s. I got my set for Christmas 82 with Keep on the Borderlands, but deliberately got the older set because it came with this, whereas the new red box version that had just been released did not have a full module.
outstanding kit bash. Reflecting back on 5-7th grade (1982-85) the one thing I could never find and it drove me nuts was even just a few paragraphs on wilderness campaigns. When you’re 10 or 11 you need that extra guidance. I remember saving up to buy “wilderness campaigns” and all it was, was hexagonal graph paper and a key to suggest some ubiquitous symbols (eg quicksand) After DM-ing at a young age and drawing my own maps by age 11 the idea of “how do these people move out in the open” drove me absolutely bananas. Today I’d wing it. But thats what 40 years will do for you 🗺
Still my favourite module after 40 years. I've run KotB for every edition except 4th and enjoy reading the Goodman Games take on it even if my copy arrived banged up.
Maybe the reason the cave of the unknown isn't discovered (or discoverable by the players!) is because its only entrance is hidden. Its a disguised stone door that looks like a cliff face and can only be opened from the inside or by a secret lever on the outside.
Thanks for the excellent video. In my own experience, learning D&D with the '79 version, the inclusion of the secret area of the keep and the guildhouse in particular communicated something specific to me: that the players weren't expected, by default, to be law-abiding heroic people. The guildhouse was, in fact, the specific place any thief player characters would want to "hit", and so in that way it made sense to me that it was included (more so than a tavern). It also communicated to me that "chaotic" characters were welcome in the game. The Keep was as valid an adventure site as the Caves of Chaos were. Just my own anecdotal experience, from when I was 12. Perhaps that wasn't the intention of including the guildhouse and the behind-the-scenes areas of the keep, but it's how I interpreted it at the time and it has had a profound effect on how I play the game to this day.
Ahh... the memories!! First adventure I had gone through as a kid. I remember going from door to door and smashing it in to kill and loot. I still wonder how we have carried all the 10's of thousands of coins we found in ADnD adventures?
This is a great review! In less than 15 minutes, you told us everything about the book, gave us a few choice views of its pages and even suggestions to improve it. I was looking for a good review of the OAR series and this was the best! Please, review the other books on the series!
The party can get honourary membership to the Merchants Guild if they rescue the merchant and his wife from the caves of chaos and thus you are actually likely to be able to get into the Merchants Guild and to stay there. Thus the floor plan.
I'd say if anyone runs this game your suggestion make the 'caves of unknown' and 'caves of chaos' inverted as to their location on the map. That is a common sense but solidly good logical choice, that the original creators shoulda, coulda, woulda but didn't make. There is a boardgame that recently was on Kickstarter that sounds inspired by, or might not be, but at least sounds like the concept of the 'caves of chaos' as dungeon filled with tribes of various creatures like goblins, orcs, and evil men/cultists. Meaning in that boardgame you face a tribe of hobgoblins, and then other groups like that. That game then invokes the basic premise that multiple types of creatures all dwell into a single large expansive complex. I like that. I should add Massive Darkness from CMON seemed like this too, with evil dwarves, goblins, orcs and some large monsters.
Take a look at the contour lines on the Keep On The Borderlands map. The Cave of the unknown is closer to the Keep, but the climb is steep. The Caves of Chaos have a road that go right by it, making it more accessible to the keep...and vice versa.
Late to the game so to speak but the most recent time I ran the Keep on the Borderlands, in order to make full use of the details provided for the Keep. I had the PCs belong to 'the Adventurer's Guild'. This gave them a license to adventure and not get in trouble for causing general mayhem, and for going around armed and dangerous most of the time. Then they had to pay a portion of their treasure (10%) as dues to the Guild, and they also served to collect taxes (10%) for treasure discovered. But this would allow them to stay at the Guild House and keep their earnings on account and not need to pack it around with them. After several trips back and forth from the Caves, they drew the attention of the Castellan and he invited them into the Keep propper to have dinner with him. This was also attended by both of the main Clerics mentioned (the Priest on pilgrimage {no spoiler} and the Curate from the Chapel), as well as the Elf Advisor. This served as a great chance to show that the 2 Clerics do not get along, but as the Priest is described as "jovial" he came off much more likable than the Curate, which made it easy to the Players to allow him to tag along with them when they went back to the Caves. Anyhow, I found this worked very well to allow them to get a peek into the Keep propper and to meet the rest of the folks presented in the module. Most especially the legendary Castellan.
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 Cool, I only recently (like in the last few days) came across your channel. I was cherrypicking my way through the vids, but now I'm going back to the start to watch my way forward. So I should be getting to those pretty soon. Now I am even more looking forward to watching the rest, thanks!
I'm running B1 Keep on the Borderlands for AD&D in another month or so. It's the '80/'81 version. Haven't played it since the 80s. Thanks for the review, Prof. Think I'm gonna pick this one up.
The in-the-box B1 is absolutely my favorite module, sickly-green cover and all. But I got to play it maybe once, and never got to run it. B2, I played and ran many, many times.
I would love to see your personalized maps for the caves of chaos. I think it's a really awesome idea to draw your own versions of maps, it helps familiarize you with what you are running and I love dungeon maps. I drew the entirely of the in search of the unknown dungeon. It was, a long experience, but it familiarized me with the dungeon and made running it so much easier. This is the first video of yours that I have seen and even though I've owned this big book since it came out, I enjoyed hearing your review so I subscribed.
Interesting product - thanks for the thorough review. Unfortunately I have to disagree, rather completely, with the statement you made that KotB was groundbreaking "because this is the first time you had a town with a dungeon nearby. This kind of concept did not exist before Gygax thought of it". You mentioned Blackmoor, so I suppose you know it predates KotB by some 7 years (1971). Blackmoor, is a town with a dungeon nearby. It was published in 1977 by Judges guild within the pages of the First Fantasy Campaign, and includes a map and description of the town in addition to maps and a stocking list for the dungeon. So no, Gygax did not pioneer that particular idea. It was a key trope of the game before he ever got involved. It was interesting to see that the GG conversion includes essays and restocking lists for B1. Back in 2011, I was one of several people who participated in a similar (but free) product called the B1 In Search of the Unknown Sourcebook. I'm sure folks can still find that floating around the web. BTW, I really like your customized notebook. that was super-cool!
Thanks for your thorough and thoughtful reply. You are, of course, correct regarding Blackmooor and Arneson deserves full credit for the town/dungeon concept. The Keep, with its large print run, popularized it, moving it into the mass public consciousness.
I believe the guild house was chosen as the sample floor plan precisely *because* it's not very vital to the PCs and their quests. Creating the places that are is intended to serve as a learning experience for the new DM.
I know this is very late, but from what I understand the 2 different versions of keep on the borderlands is that the original first printings of the keep were made for Holmes Basic blue book. Including Dexterity stats for monster for Holmes Dexterity initiative, and the other printings were made for moldvay rules.
LOL. It's free--exclusively on this channel. You juts have to watch. And it's being written as we go. I'll periodically ask viewers to design encounters. Check out the next couple of vids and try your hand at design!.
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 Honestly … Your version is FAR more useful to me. Not the text, but the descriptions and the screenshots of the maps. I'd buy this book, bug Goodman promises this book will never be available as PDF, like that's something they're proud of. I don't buy books without electronic versions anymore-the days I gave myself a couple of migraines a week poring over printed books are well and truly behind me I think. When I was younger, that was the price of reading anything that anyone thought any way controversial. If you wanted politics, anything on the subject of religion that wasn't simple (Christian) God is Great fluff, or anything that might upset some grandma/mother in the 1950s … it wasn't going to be adapted for blind and visually impaired readers of any age. They had to protect our virgin ears. Even those wonderful Saxon words (the ones I use when reading about e.g. politics) require a warning according to the Library of Congress. 🤣 D&D would've been heart-attack-inducing. Especially before 2E purged all the stuff the Church Lady from SNL would object to.
@@knghtbrd If you like screenshots and maps, check out my new Veiled Society campaign. The first episode was called "Session Zero" and the next two episodes with again on the next two Tuesdays at 12noon. Be there!
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 I still haven't quite made it through all your back catalogue, but I'm getting there. I've very much enjoyed the Caves of Chaos adaptation. Classic module, and you've given it a consistent narrative it just never had. I assume it ends as any suitably old school campaign does: The players are slaughtered or a few of them live long enough to retire as legends and settle down someplace those legends are not known.
I wasn’t yet alive in the early 80’s but when I did get my first Dungeons and Dragons box the adventure that came in the back of the instruction book was called “Escape from Zanzer Tam’s Dungeon” or something like that. It made for a pretty cool introduction. On the one hand I do kinda wish I was around to experience the old classic era of D&D... on the other hand I’m definitely glad I’m not old enough to have been around back then lol. 😉 Oh and pink still is a big thing at least on guys like me who can pull it off in a pink polo.👕 😛😉
I have an original copy of B2 in my collection along with the Silver Anniversary version, "Return to the Keep on the Borderlands". Between those two, I can run this without a hassle. But the Goodman Games version looks interesting just for the additional articles.
Devin Wold coincidentally I uploaded a giveaway TH-cam for this amazing publication yesterday! Check out The War in Chrsitmas Village channel to enter the giveaway.
I've actually run this, and my main critique is that it's overstuffed. I ignored all the optional lairs, but still, having both B1 and B2 on the same map splits the attention of the players and balancing runs to both dungeons becomes a hassle. Not to mention that if they were to explore both of them fully, they would level past a lot of the content. My solution was that other adventuring parties of NPCs cleared out some areas before the players got to them.
I love your channel. Love your attention to detail and my favorite video of yours is how you showed how to eliminate initiative from combat. That was just great. I first played D&D in 1980, freshmen year in college. The DM took us through B2, but I knew nothing about the game. We played until about 3am that Friday night and ended having just fought some Orcs. When I went to sleep that night I couldn't wait to play again, to find out what treasures the Orcs had. Well not too long ago I revised this entire module on my blog and shortly after that I turned my D&D campaign into an ongoing story on my blog, since I currently don't have a gaming group to play with. Someone asked me if I could narrate it on my yt channel, so that they could listen to it, cause they said they didn't have the time to read it, so I did it, just for fun. There's no pics though. Just me narrating it, kind of like a 'book on tape'. Anyway, I just wanted to tell you, on the off chance that you might read &/or listen to it and give me some feedback, but I'm sure you're very busy and might not have the time. My story is fairly long; 47 chapters. It's all on a 'playlist' on my channel. Also, I created my own world and wrote my own edition of D&D, which is a blend of 1st & 2nd edition, Castles & Crusades, and my own rules, including my own combat system where I too eliminated initiative, though I think you might've had something to do with that 🙂 Anyway, if you check out any of it, I'd love to hear your thoughts. I definitely want to add pics to the video sometime, but I'm using my phone to record it. I'm just not very computer savvy 🙂 Oh yes, I almost forgot to tell you. The reason I'm posting my comment here is because B2 is the main part of my story, along with a couple things in the beginning, but the main story is the party adventuring in the caves.
I bought all three (so far) of Goodman Game's "Original Adventures Reincarnated" based on your recommendations, professor. Having read through the Borderlands book, I have to say your review is spot on, and I'm glad I can put a whole new generation of players through these ordeals!
I passed on free Starbucks just to watch this video! Also, the caves of Chaos are nearest the road...so logically they are the most notable and widely known.
I have assembled a new small group. My 2 sons, 14, 11 and my wife. I am teaching them and breaking them in on return to the keep on the borderlands silver edition. I am using alot of the gameplay that you have recommended on other videos. Needless to say we are about 8 hours of play time into it doing rumors side quests loaded with lots of learners lore and role play. Needless to say they are addicted and can't get enough. I feel re energized by their enthusiasm for the game. I played the original b1 or b2 back in the early 90s. It's my 2nd favorite module behind the temple of elemental evil. Btw, do you have pdf downloads for your updated versions of these great modules? Keep up the amazing work Professor DM.
I remember both minotaur, I guess I will have to dig out my copy from storage to see which one I had and which one my brother had. Or maybe the other minotaur was from my copy of In Search of Adventure. Getting back into D&D with my 9 year old.
I first bumped into Keep on the Borderlands in the early 80s. My friends and I were in fourth grade. We were idiots. The first thing we did was swarm into the Keep, killed everyone, and looted the shops. Did I mention we were idiots? Much later the DM was like “hey I see in the back the hills are full of monsters. You guys want to go there?” For the record: we were idiots. I’m curious if anyone else did the same…?
Picked this book up just recently and I'm gearing up to run it for my group. Also, mine is a 5th printing and somewhere along the line, they've added a ribbon book mark.
Good day! I just picked this up and have just cracked the spine :) My copy DOES have a ribbon bookmark included for what its worth. I really like your journal-style module book. I presume those inserts were all glued or taped in?
Hopefully, Santa will keep me in mind for such goodies this holiday season! (I will refrain from any criticism of last year's undernourished stocking, what with the 'lump of coal' issue ever looming). I'm basically old school and homebrew, so I enjoy the nostalgia, even if I never use the thing! Great video as always! (Stoopid naughty or nice!)
An older teen tried to run Keep for me but I didn't know what I was supposed to do. Learn a rumor and form a party for an adventure, or get a job to gain experience and level-up? You said each monster's lair is like one night's session. So what happens when characters die? Do they just slap a new character together who was supposedly left at camp to join? Or start the whole thing over? I much prefer a constrained board game like the D&D adventure series to have one adventure in 2 hours.
I have the players create multiple characters before we begin. If someone dies they join after the party goes back to regroup. If it's early on, I let them roll for any NPCs.
10:00 I guess the size of the new print is large because they figure it will mostly be used by old players with bad eyes reliving their nostalgia. Lol.
I use a version of this setting that I found free online at www.basicfantasy.org called the chaotic caves. It uses a modified 3.5e d&d designed to be like basic/expert d&d but I run it with my own modified version of 5e. I separated the caves into different locations and redesigned them as old dwarven mines. The kingdom in my setting is at war with another kingdom to the south and the dwarves are running low on certain rare ores. They abandoned the mines in this area long ago because the area was suddenly and severely overrun with monsters. Now the dwarves, desperate for this ore, have called for adventurers to clear the monsters from the lost mines and discover why monsters are so attracted to them.
I understand your small quibble with the lack of names in the Keep but I think that can easily be a "plus". My fantasy games are nearly always based in a setting that is very WFRPish. I just drop in some German-sounding names et voila!
I tried running caves of chaos in pathfinder 1e an my new player a ranger stopped showing up around the 4th session. morale of the story always alter modules for pacing an fun an throw out redundant content. SPOILER: the ogre in the goblin cave is the best part an only section of any challenge. :)
I'm pretty sure they didn't fill in every little thing, so the DM could use his imagination to build in the adventure and make it their own. Kind of a nudge to create.
Extremely Awesome & Wonderful "Into the Borderlands" Book Review by you Sir. I love all your Videos. You are Super Talented @ Plying your Craft. I"m going to order this Book in a couple of days for 100 Percent for sure because of you! I just ordered "The Lost City". I already own "The Temple of Elemental Evil" Two Book Set which is like 1,000 pounds, very awesome! Have a early Merry Xmas to you & yours! Keep making more of your Wonderful Videos.....👽👽👻😉
I've got Goodman's Keep & the original module. The format of Goodman's huge book & its repetitiveness proved to be too unwieldy to run the modules, reference, & read easily.
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 Hahaha, I don't need the reminder. :-D Having said that, I only have the pink version of KotB, and not the first pressing. Side note: I'd love to see a review of the combined A1-A4 modules, as I'm a fan of the ideas in the story but hate the plot holes.
(raises hand) Excuse me Professor but I’m not sure I agree that any game featuring a small town with a dungeon nearby owes its existence to this module, as it doesn’t exactly take a genius to think up a setting like that for a fantasy adventure game...
Professor, I must give it to you: This video is about 5yo and you still answer the comments in it. You are true gentleman. Cheers from Brazil
Love Brazil!
11:52 woah woah woah
I need an entire video on this system
Cutting out the pages and making your own “single sheet for session” thing.
I love this!
That's my notebook.It's on Patreon, with a metric ton of other stuff.
I don't know why people continually miss the point of old modules detailing "places the PCs never go." How do you know they won't go there? Some players immediately want to break the "rule", some are intrigued by the closed gate/door, and some invent dumb conspiracy theories to investigate. How many thief characters and/or parties tried to break into the guild house? Or wanted to pickpocket the elf in the tower? And I 've had at least 3 groups over the decades come back to take over the Keep and use it as their fort (or get crushed by the Realm army).
It also ups the usability of the module. When we paid $5 1970's dollars for these, we used every piece we could. I used the B1 lower level map a a wilderness cave for random encounters, and the Keep when I needed a random wilderness castle (a very common random encounter in 0E/1E/BX).
Finally, Gary specifically set up those areas to be "unlocked" during play. The intro explains that after great success the players will be feted and (if not "boors" or whatever Gygaxian he used) they'll get access to the Inner Bailey. Same for the guild house, there's a merchant captive (with the gnolls I think) that if rescued will become a contact for the players.
None of these things are problems, they're intentional design choices that made the Keep what it is. If it was junk, we all would have ignored it and made some other dungeon to use. Instead, to this day some people always use it to start campaigns,and its pieces have been used and re-used in more campaigns than will ever be live-streamed.
I actually agree. It’s just the 200 hundred troops in each tower with all their equipment is a lot of space. It confused me when I was a kid because if you write it, the reader assumes it’s critical. In that regard, I think the inner Bailey is over described. BTW-I frequently criticize my own published modules for being too wordy!
There was always S1 Tomb Of Horrors .... "Well, you walked in and all died" 😄
Orc guard: "Orc chieftain, tell me again what is my purpose to guard this one treasure chest in this otherwise, empty room?"
Orc Chieftain: "Your just there to be killed"
We always assumed "The Cave of the Unknown" was where module B1 was located. Which we never played because that module was too much work for 11 year olds.
I play this on a bus ride to South Carolina. My seat mate was the DM. We played without dice. Since rolling on a bus is impractical.
I had a ball playing an adventure an when I got off the bus I got the module from my seatmate. Then I ran it for my brother an friends an we had an amazing time.
I both played and ran "Keep" back in the 80s and had a good time with it. I later came to think of it as a really stupid piece of work, and have only recently come to realize that my priorities were badly out of whack.
I soured on it by stepping back and thinking about the *world* of the keep as an ecology. It made no sense. All these monsters packed into a little network of caves in a single ravine, within a couple hundred yards of each other. It was like an Apartment Complex of Evil. I wondered: is there a pool? a clubhouse? visitor parking?
Sure, there were little notes about different tribes being antagonistic to each other, but for God's sake, no one even bothered to post a *guard* outside their cave. The party should have set off about six different alarms the moment they set foot in that ravine.
And then, the Keep. Garrisoned with dozens of well-armed soldiers, led by, if I recall, a sixth level fighter or something with magic armor and sword. That's to say nothing of the various spell casters around. They could have cleared out a few goblins and hobgoblins living three miles down the road, no problem.
Well. I think these are valid criticisms, and I would like the module more if the seven or eight caves were scattered about and there was more advice on hooking characters into exploring and do-gooding. Still, one of the things hanging out in the OSR has made me do is criticize my own criticism. Hey mister fancy pants world-smither: did you HAVE FUN with this adventure? Well...yes. Yes I did. Great sense of place. Stories arise out of the players' actions, lots of ways to build on the published content.
There's a keep. There's a cave. Peril and reward await. Go get 'em, champ!
The moment when the good professor opens his own module book. Epic :)
Glad you dig it.
I had no idea that early copy machines couldn't pick up blue and that's why the maps were always that color.
Now you know!
It was called non repro blue.
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 AND KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE!
I just thought it was a bad color choice
I love how much your hand-made version resembles more modern OSR modules! Good work, PDM!
Thanks!
I think you could be telling me about the rich history of pants in D&D and I'd still be glued to the screen.
Back in the day the DM was expected to flesh out modules like this. The idea was that they provided DMs with the framework to work with but, things like backstory, NPCs characters, towns, monsters and so forth was supposed to be added by the gamemaster, thus allowing for unique blends of creativity. Also rules were "guidelines" and modules were that also. Any DM had the freedom to deviate from whatever was written in a module, adding or taking away things as he or she felt was necessary. Judge classic modules by today's gaming standards is pretty silly, especially when many of the classic modules were test run sort of affairs. The best modules generally helped to expand the game, and helped make game play better. You can see D&Ds development and progression just by looking at TSR's modules. Compare any module from the late '80s to one from the '70s and early '80s and you're going to find a world of difference. The artwork is better. The maps are better, and frankly, the writing is generally better too. Modules did start to lean to be more linear, for better or worse, and before long TSR's modules evolved into complete adventures, fully fleshed out, but back in the day a large part of a module was hung on the shoulders of the DM. A good DM with an imagination and the ability to paint pictures with words was all you needed to play any scenario. Modules were only a small part of gaming, and miniatures and all that weren't used with the frequency they are used to day either. There was a lot more home brewed, theater of the mind games. Many DMs I knew rarely ran modules, while others used them almost always. To some DMs they were just reference examples showing how to run adventures. Some DMs would read them, borrow a few ideas and suggestions from them, and proceed to write out their own stuff. Guidelines and references. That's all ANY of the old books ever were.
I played the boxed set in 1981 (?). Ah the memories. I would have done so much better in university if we didn't discover D&D that summer before.
Fun fact about the 3D map of the keep - it's the map used in the 4th Edition version of Keep on the Borderlands, where it also got an actual name, Restwell Keep. Given that the map has numbers, that looks to be the version from Dungeon 176 (I recently got pdf copies of both the 4E Keep on the Borderlands and Dungeon 176 for personal use).
It was only through the early 80s. I got my set for Christmas 82 with Keep on the Borderlands, but deliberately got the older set because it came with this, whereas the new red box version that had just been released did not have a full module.
This channel's videos are probably the fastest click of my subscriptions... I absolutely love your work, prof. Thanks for all of these amazing videos!
Thanks! Keep sharing!
outstanding kit bash. Reflecting back on 5-7th grade (1982-85) the one thing I could never find and it drove me nuts was even just a few paragraphs on wilderness campaigns. When you’re 10 or 11 you need that extra guidance. I remember saving up to buy “wilderness campaigns” and all it was, was hexagonal graph paper and a key to suggest some ubiquitous symbols (eg quicksand) After DM-ing at a young age and drawing my own maps by age 11 the idea of “how do these people move out in the open” drove me absolutely bananas. Today I’d wing it. But thats what 40 years will do for you 🗺
Still my favourite module after 40 years.
I've run KotB for every edition except 4th and enjoy reading the Goodman Games take on it even if my copy arrived banged up.
Then you may enjoy my grimdark KOTB update, starting tomorrow. Check it out.
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 Excellent, will do!
That small print Professor Dungeon Master likes was fine in the early 80s, but now we can hardly read it!
This was my first adventure.
Maybe the reason the cave of the unknown isn't discovered (or discoverable by the players!) is because its only entrance is hidden. Its a disguised stone door that looks like a cliff face and can only be opened from the inside or by a secret lever on the outside.
Thanks for the excellent video. In my own experience, learning D&D with the '79 version, the inclusion of the secret area of the keep and the guildhouse in particular communicated something specific to me: that the players weren't expected, by default, to be law-abiding heroic people. The guildhouse was, in fact, the specific place any thief player characters would want to "hit", and so in that way it made sense to me that it was included (more so than a tavern). It also communicated to me that "chaotic" characters were welcome in the game. The Keep was as valid an adventure site as the Caves of Chaos were. Just my own anecdotal experience, from when I was 12. Perhaps that wasn't the intention of including the guildhouse and the behind-the-scenes areas of the keep, but it's how I interpreted it at the time and it has had a profound effect on how I play the game to this day.
Ahh... the memories!! First adventure I had gone through as a kid. I remember going from door to door and smashing it in to kill and loot. I still wonder how we have carried all the 10's of thousands of coins we found in ADnD adventures?
*From what I've seen .*
*Your version of the keep on the borderlands is the best one .*
This is a great review! In less than 15 minutes, you told us everything about the book, gave us a few choice views of its pages and even suggestions to improve it.
I was looking for a good review of the OAR series and this was the best!
Please, review the other books on the series!
Pedro Bouça Thanks, Pedro. I also have reviews of 5 Torches Deep, Mork Borg, & 5E Hardcore Mode as well. Check them out!
The party can get honourary membership to the Merchants Guild if they rescue the merchant and his wife from the caves of chaos and thus you are actually likely to be able to get into the Merchants Guild and to stay there. Thus the floor plan.
Of course. As a kid, I didn't know what a guild was.
I'd say if anyone runs this game your suggestion make the 'caves of unknown' and 'caves of chaos' inverted as to their location on the map. That is a common sense but solidly good logical choice, that the original creators shoulda, coulda, woulda but didn't make.
There is a boardgame that recently was on Kickstarter that sounds inspired by, or might not be, but at least sounds like the concept of the 'caves of chaos' as dungeon filled with tribes of various creatures like goblins, orcs, and evil men/cultists. Meaning in that boardgame you face a tribe of hobgoblins, and then other groups like that.
That game then invokes the basic premise that multiple types of creatures all dwell into a single large expansive complex. I like that.
I should add Massive Darkness from CMON seemed like this too, with evil dwarves, goblins, orcs and some large monsters.
Take a look at the contour lines on the Keep On The Borderlands map. The Cave of the unknown is closer to the Keep, but the climb is steep. The Caves of Chaos have a road that go right by it, making it more accessible to the keep...and vice versa.
Late to the game so to speak but the most recent time I ran the Keep on the Borderlands, in order to make full use of the details provided for the Keep. I had the PCs belong to 'the Adventurer's Guild'. This gave them a license to adventure and not get in trouble for causing general mayhem, and for going around armed and dangerous most of the time.
Then they had to pay a portion of their treasure (10%) as dues to the Guild, and they also served to collect taxes (10%) for treasure discovered. But this would allow them to stay at the Guild House and keep their earnings on account and not need to pack it around with them.
After several trips back and forth from the Caves, they drew the attention of the Castellan and he invited them into the Keep propper to have dinner with him. This was also attended by both of the main Clerics mentioned (the Priest on pilgrimage {no spoiler} and the Curate from the Chapel), as well as the Elf Advisor.
This served as a great chance to show that the 2 Clerics do not get along, but as the Priest is described as "jovial" he came off much more likable than the Curate, which made it easy to the Players to allow him to tag along with them when they went back to the Caves.
Anyhow, I found this worked very well to allow them to get a peek into the Keep propper and to meet the rest of the folks presented in the module. Most especially the legendary Castellan.
I did the same thing--almost exactly--with the Castellan. check out my campaign updates. It's all about updating the Keep. Cheers!
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 Cool, I only recently (like in the last few days) came across your channel. I was cherrypicking my way through the vids, but now I'm going back to the start to watch my way forward. So I should be getting to those pretty soon. Now I am even more looking forward to watching the rest, thanks!
I'm running B1 Keep on the Borderlands for AD&D in another month or so. It's the '80/'81 version. Haven't played it since the 80s. Thanks for the review, Prof. Think I'm gonna pick this one up.
The in-the-box B1 is absolutely my favorite module, sickly-green cover and all. But I got to play it maybe once, and never got to run it. B2, I played and ran many, many times.
I would love to see your personalized maps for the caves of chaos. I think it's a really awesome idea to draw your own versions of maps, it helps familiarize you with what you are running and I love dungeon maps. I drew the entirely of the in search of the unknown dungeon. It was, a long experience, but it familiarized me with the dungeon and made running it so much easier. This is the first video of yours that I have seen and even though I've owned this big book since it came out, I enjoyed hearing your review so I subscribed.
Interesting product - thanks for the thorough review. Unfortunately I have to disagree, rather completely, with the statement you made that KotB was groundbreaking "because this is the first time you had a town with a dungeon nearby. This kind of concept did not exist before Gygax thought of it". You mentioned Blackmoor, so I suppose you know it predates KotB by some 7 years (1971). Blackmoor, is a town with a dungeon nearby. It was published in 1977 by Judges guild within the pages of the First Fantasy Campaign, and includes a map and description of the town in addition to maps and a stocking list for the dungeon. So no, Gygax did not pioneer that particular idea. It was a key trope of the game before he ever got involved.
It was interesting to see that the GG conversion includes essays and restocking lists for B1. Back in 2011, I was one of several people who participated in a similar (but free) product called the B1 In Search of the Unknown Sourcebook. I'm sure folks can still find that floating around the web.
BTW, I really like your customized notebook. that was super-cool!
Thanks for your thorough and thoughtful reply. You are, of course, correct regarding Blackmooor and Arneson deserves full credit for the town/dungeon concept. The Keep, with its large print run, popularized it, moving it into the mass public consciousness.
I believe the guild house was chosen as the sample floor plan precisely *because* it's not very vital to the PCs and their quests. Creating the places that are is intended to serve as a learning experience for the new DM.
Nope, an easter egg to be discovered by good players if they rescued the merchant in the caves.
I know this is very late, but from what I understand the 2 different versions of keep on the borderlands is that the original first printings of the keep were made for Holmes Basic blue book. Including Dexterity stats for monster for Holmes Dexterity initiative, and the other printings were made for moldvay rules.
I like the Professors version better. Where can I purchase that version?
LOL. It's free--exclusively on this channel. You juts have to watch. And it's being written as we go. I'll periodically ask viewers to design encounters. Check out the next couple of vids and try your hand at design!.
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 Honestly … Your version is FAR more useful to me. Not the text, but the descriptions and the screenshots of the maps. I'd buy this book, bug Goodman promises this book will never be available as PDF, like that's something they're proud of. I don't buy books without electronic versions anymore-the days I gave myself a couple of migraines a week poring over printed books are well and truly behind me I think.
When I was younger, that was the price of reading anything that anyone thought any way controversial. If you wanted politics, anything on the subject of religion that wasn't simple (Christian) God is Great fluff, or anything that might upset some grandma/mother in the 1950s … it wasn't going to be adapted for blind and visually impaired readers of any age. They had to protect our virgin ears. Even those wonderful Saxon words (the ones I use when reading about e.g. politics) require a warning according to the Library of Congress. 🤣
D&D would've been heart-attack-inducing. Especially before 2E purged all the stuff the Church Lady from SNL would object to.
@@knghtbrd If you like screenshots and maps, check out my new Veiled Society campaign. The first episode was called "Session Zero" and the next two episodes with again on the next two Tuesdays at 12noon. Be there!
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 I still haven't quite made it through all your back catalogue, but I'm getting there. I've very much enjoyed the Caves of Chaos adaptation. Classic module, and you've given it a consistent narrative it just never had.
I assume it ends as any suitably old school campaign does: The players are slaughtered or a few of them live long enough to retire as legends and settle down someplace those legends are not known.
@@knghtbrd u should check out his Patreon. U get his notebook and tables. I use them more than the actual module.
I wasn’t yet alive in the early 80’s but when I did get my first Dungeons and Dragons box the adventure that came in the back of the instruction book was called “Escape from Zanzer Tam’s Dungeon” or something like that. It made for a pretty cool introduction. On the one hand I do kinda wish I was around to experience the old classic era of D&D... on the other hand I’m definitely glad I’m not old enough to have been around back then lol. 😉
Oh and pink still is a big thing at least on guys like me who can pull it off in a pink polo.👕
😛😉
I have an original copy of B2 in my collection along with the Silver Anniversary version, "Return to the Keep on the Borderlands". Between those two, I can run this without a hassle.
But the Goodman Games version looks interesting just for the additional articles.
Very interesting book! I'm very curious to get my hands on one now! I'm still using the Frostbitten and Mutilated book, which is fantastic.
Devin Wold coincidentally I uploaded a giveaway TH-cam for this amazing publication yesterday! Check out The War in Chrsitmas Village channel to enter the giveaway.
Glad you liked it. Thanks for watching.
I just bought this book based mostly on the persuasiveness of this review!
I've actually run this, and my main critique is that it's overstuffed. I ignored all the optional lairs, but still, having both B1 and B2 on the same map splits the attention of the players and balancing runs to both dungeons becomes a hassle. Not to mention that if they were to explore both of them fully, they would level past a lot of the content. My solution was that other adventuring parties of NPCs cleared out some areas before the players got to them.
I love your channel. Love your attention to detail and my favorite video of yours is how you showed how to eliminate initiative from combat. That was just great.
I first played D&D in 1980, freshmen year in college. The DM took us through B2, but I knew nothing about the game. We played until about 3am that Friday night and ended having just fought some Orcs. When I went to sleep that night I couldn't wait to play again, to find out what treasures the Orcs had.
Well not too long ago I revised this entire module on my blog and shortly after that I turned my D&D campaign into an ongoing story on my blog, since I currently don't have a gaming group to play with. Someone asked me if I could narrate it on my yt channel, so that they could listen to it, cause they said they didn't have the time to read it, so I did it, just for fun. There's no pics though. Just me narrating it, kind of like a 'book on tape'. Anyway, I just wanted to tell you, on the off chance that you might read &/or listen to it and give me some feedback, but I'm sure you're very busy and might not have the time. My story is fairly long; 47 chapters. It's all on a 'playlist' on my channel. Also, I created my own world and wrote my own edition of D&D, which is a blend of 1st & 2nd edition, Castles & Crusades, and my own rules, including my own combat system where I too eliminated initiative, though I think you might've had something to do with that 🙂
Anyway, if you check out any of it, I'd love to hear your thoughts. I definitely want to add pics to the video sometime, but I'm using my phone to record it. I'm just not very computer savvy 🙂 Oh yes, I almost forgot to tell you. The reason I'm posting my comment here is because B2 is the main part of my story, along with a couple things in the beginning, but the main story is the party adventuring in the caves.
I played in 1985 and never encountered this module. Very interesting almost 40 years later.
It is FANTASTIC!
I bought all three (so far) of Goodman Game's "Original Adventures Reincarnated" based on your recommendations, professor. Having read through the Borderlands book, I have to say your review is spot on, and I'm glad I can put a whole new generation of players through these ordeals!
I passed on free Starbucks just to watch this video! Also, the caves of Chaos are nearest the road...so logically they are the most notable and widely known.
Starting to run it on Sunday for two groups. Very excited.
I have assembled a new small group. My 2 sons, 14, 11 and my wife. I am teaching them and breaking them in on return to the keep on the borderlands silver edition. I am using alot of the gameplay that you have recommended on other videos. Needless to say we are about 8 hours of play time into it doing rumors side quests loaded with lots of learners lore and role play. Needless to say they are addicted and can't get enough. I feel re energized by their enthusiasm for the game. I played the original b1 or b2 back in the early 90s. It's my 2nd favorite module behind the temple of elemental evil. Btw, do you have pdf downloads for your updated versions of these great modules? Keep up the amazing work Professor DM.
I'll be interested to see if the upcoming Lost City 5E facelift from Goodman incorporates any of your suggestions, professor!
They're redoing The Lost City?! Awesome!
I'm currently running The Lost City. What a throw back adventure.
The Lost City is the first OAR I got, and I love it!!
One could get some great inspiration from this book. Why did I wait this long to get into this sort of gaming?
I love your homebrew DM module guidebook format.
If you published an adventure in your one facing page style I would buy it. Just sayin'.
Taber McFarlin it’s coming. It may take a year but scenarios are coming.
I remember both minotaur, I guess I will have to dig out my copy from storage to see which one I had and which one my brother had. Or maybe the other minotaur was from my copy of In Search of Adventure. Getting back into D&D with my 9 year old.
I first bumped into Keep on the Borderlands in the early 80s. My friends and I were in fourth grade. We were idiots. The first thing we did was swarm into the Keep, killed everyone, and looted the shops. Did I mention we were idiots? Much later the DM was like “hey I see in the back the hills are full of monsters. You guys want to go there?” For the record: we were idiots. I’m curious if anyone else did the same…?
I still have my box and contents from 1980?? Now I have to go find it.
Picked this book up just recently and I'm gearing up to run it for my group. Also, mine is a 5th printing and somewhere along the line, they've added a ribbon book mark.
Ahh, the memories... Thank you so much for this!
Life is the Borderlands. Great review.
I’m Loving this channel and the great information it contains. Thank you!
Thank you, berserker. I really appreciate your viewership!
Love the originals and the reissue! Such fun!
Good day! I just picked this up and have just cracked the spine :) My copy DOES have a ribbon bookmark included for what its worth. I really like your journal-style module book. I presume those inserts were all glued or taped in?
Hope you enjoy it! Yeah. I glue/tape a lot.
Brings back memories , thank you.
Love the hobgoblin miniatures you show, can you tell me where you got them
They are Warhammer Crypt Ghouls, I believe. I actually bought them at GenCon. I thought the paint job was pretty good and they were cheap.
B2 was my first ever adventure, in B/X. More PCs died than survived.
Hopefully, Santa will keep me in mind for such goodies this holiday season! (I will refrain from any criticism of last year's undernourished stocking, what with the 'lump of coal' issue ever looming). I'm basically old school and homebrew, so I enjoy the nostalgia, even if I never use the thing! Great video as always! (Stoopid naughty or nice!)
It's a great read. I'm the same way. I enjoy reading good RPG stuff.
One thing I have learned about Professor DungeonMaster, he hates flipping pages. :)
FYI (two years too late) there is no Roman numeral XXIVII, also very interesting and fun review.
I ran the caves of chaos homebrew adapted for 3.5 years ago. It was great.
Even though I don't play 5th Ed., I am sorely tempted to buy this book.
You don't need to play 5th. Its got Basic D&D stats. You'll get the gist of it.
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 , that's even better! I also noted that they'd made a similar book for The Isle of Dread. :)
An older teen tried to run Keep for me but I didn't know what I was supposed to do. Learn a rumor and form a party for an adventure, or get a job to gain experience and level-up? You said each monster's lair is like one night's session. So what happens when characters die? Do they just slap a new character together who was supposedly left at camp to join? Or start the whole thing over? I much prefer a constrained board game like the D&D adventure series to have one adventure in 2 hours.
I have the players create multiple characters before we begin. If someone dies they join after the party goes back to regroup. If it's early on, I let them roll for any NPCs.
Our thieves totally got into the Guild House. lol
I just noticed the great Owlbear fight art is taking place in the wrong area...
10:00 I guess the size of the new print is large because they figure it will mostly be used by old players with bad eyes reliving their nostalgia. Lol.
Probably.
I use a version of this setting that I found free online at www.basicfantasy.org called the chaotic caves. It uses a modified 3.5e d&d designed to be like basic/expert d&d but I run it with my own modified version of 5e.
I separated the caves into different locations and redesigned them as old dwarven mines. The kingdom in my setting is at war with another kingdom to the south and the dwarves are running low on certain rare ores. They abandoned the mines in this area long ago because the area was suddenly and severely overrun with monsters. Now the dwarves, desperate for this ore, have called for adventurers to clear the monsters from the lost mines and discover why monsters are so attracted to them.
so thats why so many of the maps were blue! i never knew that!
25 year DM. I have never played "Keep on the Borderlands"
I understand your small quibble with the lack of names in the Keep but I think that can easily be a "plus". My fantasy games are nearly always based in a setting that is very WFRPish. I just drop in some German-sounding names et voila!
I concur! And my campaign is very WFRPish too. Check out my grimdark Caves of Chaos on the 1st Thursday of every month!
It's a feature, not a bug. Names are always different across DMs, and it forces the DM to provide the chrome of the campaign world.
I tried running caves of chaos in pathfinder 1e an my new player a ranger stopped showing up around the 4th session. morale of the story always alter modules for pacing an fun an throw out redundant content. SPOILER: the ogre in the goblin cave is the best part an only section of any challenge. :)
My campaign will feature MY update of the caves of chaos. Look for it starting in January!
I'm pretty sure they didn't fill in every little thing, so the DM could use his imagination to build in the adventure and make it their own. Kind of a nudge to create.
Extremely Awesome & Wonderful "Into the Borderlands" Book Review by you Sir. I love all your Videos. You are Super Talented @ Plying your Craft. I"m going to order this Book in a couple of days for 100 Percent for sure because of you! I just ordered "The Lost City". I already own "The Temple of Elemental Evil" Two Book Set which is like 1,000 pounds, very awesome! Have a early Merry Xmas to you & yours! Keep making more of your Wonderful Videos.....👽👽👻😉
Please review DCC's Isle of Dread book when it comes out!
I meant to say GG... not DCC.
I’d happily pay $100 for a copy of YOUR Keep on the Borderlands! Feel free to let me know = PayPal at the ready (seriously). Awesome work, Sir.
Right? Now he can capitalize on his minor celebrity status.
Wow! Memories
Kobalds with an A? An intentional variation, I presume.
I would definitely like to make my own module book like how the one The Professor showed of in this video!
I remain convined the Mad Hermit is based on Yoda.
The Mad Hermit predates Yoda by a year. But it's an interesting theory.
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 Yoda was born a long time ago in a galaxy far away and has cheated death. I'd say the power is with him.
I've got Goodman's Keep & the original module. The format of Goodman's huge book & its repetitiveness proved to be too unwieldy to run the modules, reference, & read easily.
You get a like for reminding me of Bree-Yark! :-)
Lol! You are old like me!
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 Hahaha, I don't need the reminder. :-D
Having said that, I only have the pink version of KotB, and not the first pressing.
Side note: I'd love to see a review of the combined A1-A4 modules, as I'm a fan of the ideas in the story but hate the plot holes.
Late comment, but will be reviewing "Isle of Dread" of "Expedition to Barrier Peak"?
Lol. I was just in a store flipping through "Peaks" today. Probably not. My reviews don't get many views. But it might happen. We'll see.
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 Ah that's too bad, I ended up picking up KotBL because of your review.
Thanks professor!
two enthusiastic thumbs up are much better than a 10/10 brah XD
Thanks, Matteo.
(raises hand) Excuse me Professor but I’m not sure I agree that any game featuring a small town with a dungeon nearby owes its existence to this module, as it doesn’t exactly take a genius to think up a setting like that for a fantasy adventure game...
Where do you get your cool monster minis?
Have they made a sequal to into the borderlands?
Not that I know of. The DM is encouraged to map out "the cave of the unknown,' which I will do on the show.
Isle of dread
Late reply...but yeah. There is a " Return to the Keep on the Borderlands ".
automatic comment generator x-19 chiming in: Great video!
So neat.
Did you know Stalin used blue pencils for his editing? Clearly an early wargamer.
I didn't see any links where can i get this at ?
Didn't like the Goodman games version. The art was too DCC for me. I felt they should have tried to keep the art styles similar.
Sweet.
why "kobald" and not kobold though?