A Discussion With An SDA Critic on Last Generation Theology! What is LGT and Is It Biblical?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ส.ค. 2024
- The idea that the final generation of believers will be perfect before Jesus comes is an extremely controversial subject among Adventists and critics of Adventism. For some, this is a heretical doctrine and "proof" that SDAs believe in salvation by works. But the real question is: Who is doing the work in you? Here, ADL has a respectful discussion with an SDA critic on this very subject.
0:00 - Intro
0:35 - Do SDAs Support LGT?
3:14 - Is There a Group of People That Are Perfect At The End of Time?
4:53 - Be Ye Therefore Perfect
8:11 - Can You Pass the Investigative Judgement With Sin?
27:09 - Does The Great Controversy Teach That We Have to Be Sinless?
33:23 - Should We Fear the Judgement?
#sda #adventist #seventhdayadventist #sabbath #lastgeneration #sdachurch #adventistchurch #adventistas #christianchurch #christ #tencommandments #apologetics #ellenwhite #ellengouldwhite
Last Generation Theology has, for me, been personally life changing in a positive way. God bless 🙏
Our Creator gave us the power to choose. All the glory goes to God.
Outstanding study! I’ve been so richly blessed and deeply changed! Glory to the Most High!
Amen! Whatever God bids us to do He enables. God calls those things that do not exist as though they do.
Who is this fellow!? Finally, an armchair apologist who's not obnoxious. A civil SDA dissenter. A friendly SDA dissenter - with manners. What!? This fellow has a better demeanor than most SDAs doing apologetics ... Now, this fellow threw me for a loop with his, "I prefer the Catholic ..." I nearly sold the farm on that one. Haha. What!? What can you do!?
For books about LGT, which doesn't even use the term LGT, I recommend Dennis Priebe "face to face with the real gospel" its a beautiful book and points to Christ as doing the work.
Great author....
That book is great. I also like God at Risk and the Heartbeat of Adventism by Dr. Herbert Douglass on the same subject. There is no need to be scared about Final/Last Generation Theology. It is not man-made or sectarian. It is Historic Seventh-day Adventism. There is a Last Generation Symposium on TH-cam with Pastor Bohr, Pastor Priebe and others.
@broclay1073 thank you for the book recommendations! Yes that symposium was very eye opening. Amen, it is biblical that there will be a final group of people who's hearts are fully surrendered to God who are able to stand sealed in His character perfectly, through the work of Christ on their hearts. To me that is good news!
@@lindz758 Praise the Lord.
This study was so beautiful for me to hear. Thank you!
All we have to do is to look at the life of Jesus, if we claim he is our example. Did he live a life without sin because he was God or because he depended on His Father in the flesh? If it is the former, we should be fearful but if it is latter we have all the more hope that we have that same dependence on Jesus!
The big question should be will we allow God to do the work in us. He will not force us so yes we have a part to play.
Ellen White states God will never take away all doubt from the scriptures but will still give you enough evidence to trust Him and His word. I see this like many other individuals that will find fault with everything in scripture so that they can feel Free to not believe. But they are not as critical with everyday life. I don't understand the laws of gravity but that doesn't keep me from leaving my house. I don't understand the laws of physics but that doesn't keep me from crossing the bridge, since i put faith in the architect that he knows how to build bridges. I don't know for a fact that all my food passed inspection, but I go to the supermarket and buy my groceries hoping that my food was inspected and is safe to eat. He like most people is trying to find every excuse to doubt and to not have to obey. God doesn't expect you to have a PhD in theology before you can believe and obey. But we must be like little children in innocense and trust in God.
I believe in almost all that Ellijah is saying and look forward to another discussion with more Bible verses & SOP from Elijah. You brothers are very much needed in these end times and I love watching and learning from your presentations. God Bless🙏🏻
But the mere fact that, christians in other denominations also teach in their congregation that you shouldn't steal, gather for prayers, don't commit adultery All those rebukes sounds like even Sunday Keepers Are working there Way to heaven, it looks to me like,the opinions of Sunday keepers is only keeping Sabbath that's work based to enter into heaven , they need to change from such ideology
0:10 that couldn't be any truer of a statement. absolutely solid.
We are never to feel that we have overcome completely, there is a difference how heaven views us, and how we should view ourselves. Wow Daniel was great, he was a canonical prophet, saved by God from the Lions den. And yet in Dan. 9 he includes himself in the sins of the exiles but when Gabriel speaks to him he states that he is much beloved in heaven. If we get to a point on earth where we feel that we are righteous, then we are vulnerable to falling.
truth
In Christ all of God's commandments are His promises.
Suddenly the commandments are promises. That is why you practice LGBT lifestyle
All things come of Thee, and of Thine own have we given Thee” (1 Chronicles 29:14). "No work of man can merit for him the pardoning love of God, but the love of God pervading the soul will lead him to do those things which were always required of God and that he should do with pleasure. He has done only that which duty ever required of him." Ellen White Faith Works 22.3
Lat Generation Theology is just saying we are in the last days from the 2300 days timeline!! Victory over sin, mark of the beast, 144,000 etc attached to that Theology!! Victory over sin is the issue!! But who makes that happen? Only God can do it? Period!! We can’t do any but deny self, take up your cross and follow Christ
It’s sad but it seems like all ex sda have it their way they love God believe in scripture and have the freedom to enjoy life their way, they can drink, smoke, party, and practice any life style they choose even when God, the word say no they say yes, God says up they say down, so ez, so sad now they can live life any way they choose, so sad that as we get close to Jesus return we allow to be controlled by the flesh, yes God is love but he also has a warning and if you have forgotten Rev 22:11 LET HIM WHO IS FILTHY BE FILTHY STILL, read it for your self, we are so close yet so far😳🧐friends let’s not let the enemy infiltrate our minds so we can go contrary to Gods commands🙏🙏
Is the opposite,it is you the others who say the law is abolished. That is why you accept LGBT lifestyle
@@angel-lasmart7911huh
Sorry this auto correct is repeatedly changing my words when I post this.
I’m looking the number of inscriptions 7,77k perfect…
Please a discussion on social justice. I have young people who believe that The Church don't support it. They want to march or show solidarity on this current subject.
Grace is the God given power to obey him!! To be willing is on our part!! The opposite of obedience is DISOBEDIENCE!! There is no neutral or middle ground. Jesus came to save us from sin and not in sin!! Matthew 1:21. He also said to that woman " Go and sin no more!!
Ezekiel 20:12 God's Sabbath is a sign that we may know that it is God who sanctifies us.
28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
A quick answer based on John 6:28,29 - believing in God is a work according to God, a good one. By believing we are partaking in God's work. Abraham believed and was counted righteous.
By believing in God we are submitting to His will and His purification process. We are following His direction which prune us. Our thinking changes by passively following His direction. Our action change and we bare good works.
God actively changes us through each one of these processes as well.
Guy's you're doing a great job//work, stay on the wall, you three Nehemiahs, dont come down.
The truth is very plain and simple because it is Jesus himself, Jesus the truth, the only way, and the only life eternal. Bless God Thank u 🙏 Jesus. You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free and make u free from sin.. not caught up in confusion...
I'm just a little disappointed that the matter of sanctification being by faith alone or by faith and works wasn't addressed. I've heard only one brother do a study on the issue. I care to hear more.
@@rescuebabybirds : thanks kindly. There's much here. I'll consider it and respond again. Many blessings.
The participation is the obedience to God.
Participation. Are we trying to help Jesus in His work of redemption. LGT is the modern holy flesh movement. Randys
Such a claim is falsehood. Holy flesh as testified by Haskell taught that Christ took unfallen nature which is opposed to LGT
Good morning, my brothers. The individual needs to answer the question for himself and stop using a third party. Use your own testimony.
Have that relationship
If we even sin once after probation closes, we will be forever lost. Yes God is working in is to do His will but if I don’t keep or deny the Sabbath once, after probation closes than I 100% will be lost because Sabbath is the Last Great Test. Our Will has to be on Gods side and not to do our own pleasure. Like David, was he lost that year he sinned with Bathsheba? Yes he was lost at that point.
Morris Venden taught this view that it isn’t the daily moment by moment sins that will keep me out of heaven and this has had a negative impact on my life. I have had to relearn truth from the Bible about sin. The Bible & SOP is clear about being perfect. Divinity plus Humanity can not sin. We have a work…a decision…and if we don’t chose right, we need repentance and forgiveness. May we chose to not sin before it is everlastingly too late.
True we will never feel perfect
It sounds to me like he wants to believe he will be saved without following the 10 commandments
And you want to be saved by the Devil Himself that's your confession of faith in the investigative judgment
Job also could not think of any sin he had committed. Gods end time people will also agonize and not remember their sins when they are perfect but I agree Gods people won’t feel perfect. I agree with Elijah at 39:00-39-10
See EW71.2, BOE93.2 on how they got perfect. Divinity & Humanity but we have a will and a choice to make. God won’t make our choices for us. We must chose to not sin. We will if we are going to be saved
One must become perfect by doing their part. This is to submit the will to God as he/she is motivated by love for Him. This willful submission allows Jesus by the power of the Holy spirit to enable this individual to overcome the old selfish and rebellious nature of sin. Through the daily process of santification the mind will be renewed for righteousness. This perfection process will be fully accomplished in the 144000 of Revelation 14.
Christ perfect robe of righteousness covers all who believe and by their daily works of obedience to His will which keeps that cover perpetually. However, any believer who refuses to continue in righteousness automatically removes himself/herself from under that robe of Christ's perfect character.
18:40 Edwin contradicts himself. If we are surrounded by Christ, and Christ deals with the darts of the Devil before they reach us, and God does not allow us to be tempted more than we are able to bear; then any sin we commit is committed willfully despite God having taken all the steps necessary to make us victorious of those temptations.
“Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.” 1 John 3:6
At any point we sin, we are separating our selves from Christ.
The verse does not say “whoever sins HABITUALLY”. God does not say “your HABITUAL sins have separated you from me”
Hey I want to give you guys some praise, I appreciate ADL doing these long form Bible Studies! I don't know of many channels doing this.
With that said, I disagree with both ADL and the 'the critic' in this live! I think the Bible clearly teaches that we're saved by our faith apart from works (Romans 3:28 as 1 example). It is interesting how one's theology frames how one interperts Rev 14. To me Rev 14 fits salvation by faith alone perfectly. When the Bible says "for they are without fault before the throne of God"; a generic protestant like me would say well of course their sinful record has been substituted by Jesus's sinless record, with a living faith in Jesus they get to stand on Christ's record rather than their own. They are covered by the blood of the Lamb (Jesus).
But the first clause of that text says, "there is no guile in their mouths." That seems quite practical to me. Thanks for watching!
@@AdventDefenseLeague I getcha, to me that's referring to the substitution as well; the virgin part seems kind of odd otherwise as there is plenty of Bible that promotes 'being fruitful and multiplying' within marriage. The Lamb though, who's record you get to stand on, was a virgin. God Bless
Should be humble enough to acknowledge that any lingering questions unresolved, is a sign of a lack of good personal interaction with the Holy Spirit.. the reason anyone has to reach out to fellow mortals is pretty much a show of an incomplete personal conversion process..
Since we agree that Jesus is going to return as He promised; then logically, there will be a last generation living on Earth at that time (Christ’s return).
It’s logical
That generation is identified in the Bible as ‘keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.’
Ephesians 1:4 we were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world. Ephesians 2:10 we were created in Christ. 1CORINTHIANS 1:30 saying is of God that we are in Christ. Vs.31 says glory in God.
John 15:10 Jesus said when we keep His commandments we abide in His love. Abide means remain.
One of the first things that made me leave Adventism was this message. The great controversy is clear that Jesus will cease his mediation and then we will have to live in the sight of a holy God, if we have even one unforgiven sin - we are lost.
This is completely opposite to what the Bible says - For instance in Hebrews 7:25 destroys this. Jesus also says he will never leave us or forsake us Hebrews 13:5. This idea of being 'sinless' with every sin confessed - is destroyed in John 3
I think this can be resolved in the contemplation of one question. Who is stronger Christ or Satan? Satan messed us up and claims we can never be faultless, Jesus claims He can produce a faultless character within former rebels; He can keep us from falling. The Sanctuary shows us how Jesus rids the soul of sin, and it does not have him interceding forever. Grace is power to live a sinless life just as much as it is God's power to forgive. Just what the Father did in Christ, Christ will do in us, which is to manifest his character fully in us to make is partakers of the Divine nature. Christ never leaves us. He will always be with us, providing us with grace to overcome every assault of Satan, especially after the close of probation. There will be no need for forgiving grace then, for His people would have totally surrendered to Him, and He (through the person of the Holy Spirit) will be living out his sinless life within us.
@@broclay1073Christ is far stronger. But the Bible doesn't tell us that Satan claims we cannot be faultless.
We are born into sin and iniquity and our human nature is depraved as no one is perfect and never will be. That is why God's grace is so wonderful and why John 3 tells us how we have salvation..its nothing we have done.
The holy spirit lives in us - but we still stuff up - if we claim to be sinless we make God a liar and his word is not in us
This is where EGW is Biblically wrong about the idea of the close of probation.
@user-yw3eq7iz4w The righteous aren't the ones claiming to be sinless, God declares them so at the time when they are made so. Read the account of what happened with Job and how the accuser came at God in light of the evidence of Job's perfection; this gives us an appreciation of the arguments used in the controversy. The depravity of human nature is no match for the power of Him who calls things into existence by His word.
I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. Isaiah 13:12.
We are called to DO the works of righteousness not to BE righteousness. Jesus alone is righteous. He is our righteousness and by the working of the Holy Spirit working in us to will and to DO of His good pleasure we are empowered to DO righteousness. So we can only be perfect by dwelling perfectly in Christ. So we will never be sinless until Christ comes. By His grace, by His character in us. We can overcome sin. He is the one in us overcoming sin IN us. We only need to believe and to act like we truly believe as faith without works is dead faith.
Which sin will the 144,000 be committing? Sin is transgression of the law. To teach "we will never be sinless" is to teach that we will never keep the law until Christ comes.....ergo Revelation 14:12 is denied.
@@Biblicalhope As long as the earth exists we will have self and Satan to conquer. We will overcome but remember we will still be in sinful flesh and the war is between the flesh and the spirit (the mind). To be sinless we will need a sinless body. That is why when Christ comes we will all be changed and given a glorified body. But just as Christ in sinful flesh (Romans 8:3) overcame sin, we too by His strength will overcome our sinful flesh and in so doing keep the commandments of God. Christ has given us that victory. His righteousness is ours to claim BY FAITH. His grace (His righteous character) is sufficient to make up our lack of righteousness (we have all come short) but ONLY BY FAITH. So we must ensure that we confess our sins every day and ask for the Holy Spirit to dwell in us. Sanctification is a day by day process. Today's cleanliness/sanctification cannot be brought forward to the next. That's why it is for a lifetime. We have to fight the fight of faith daily as long as we live. It's a daily battle because self is battling each day for the mastery and without the help of Jesus, we will fall. So daily we must consecrate ourselves to God. It only when
we reach the state of sinlessness that there will be no need for daily consecration. The battle is against sinful flesh which the devil uses to get to our minds. God on the other hand wants our mind to subdue the flesh. When we are sealed by the Holy Spirit, we are sealed forever which means that Satan nor self will no longer have any power over us. Self would have died and no matter how the flesh try to bring our attention to self, our mind will not entertain it because our minds would totally be Christ's. Faith is the victory. It's the same faith Jesus had at the Cross. His flesh did not have any power over His mind. While the flesh screamed for thirst, for pain, for loneliness, to be recognized as the Son of God, Jesus's mind refused to listen because His mind was fortified in the word of God. He chose to believe His Father's words even though what He saw, what He felt, what He heard was contrary to the Word of God. It's the same for us as we go through our daily trials and temptation. Will we listen to the flesh or will we trust God's word. And will be the same for the 144,000...they like Christ chooses to trust God's word rather than trust their own senses which the sinful flesh is throwing at them. It's important that we understand this if we are to be among the 144,000.
Only God is sinless so if I have sin in me when I die, I’ve had sin me maybe I am not sinning at that time but I’m still condemned and I’m a sinful Richard person. I think it’ll change and we’re translated but if we’re sitting there and studying and praying and studying well certainly we’re not sitting while we’re seeking God hopefullybut we’re still sinful. I am maybe you’re not.
Well, if the thief on the cross had lived, and come down off the cross , he would've had to have, shown works with his faith......
You also said He didn't go to paradise that day.. calling Jesus Christ a lyer..
After probation closes there is no more sacrifice for sin. We sin we die. Jesus is no more holding up His sacrifice before the Father. The whole plan of salvation is to get rid of sin.
Yes a person can be chosing daily not to sin. Jesus puts the will to not sin in me. If I sin, Satan has just put his will in me to sin.
When God is looking at us almost like hes looking into a mirror at himself.
But Ellen White says you have to be be perfect and you're going to stand in front of God without a mediator that's written in your own words!
The reason he does not understand it's because there's sin still in his life. You can tell in his body language and the way he speaks his tone and tempo.
He's not of the same spirit.
Okay now you're just sounding like one of Job’s friend's.
Sorry
We all do have our sins, but there are too few people who left SDA because of the doctrine. Most of them left because of their undisclosed spiritual problems. This guy make no exception, but at least he seems open.
Stop splitting hairs specially when it comes to Ellen. White's When people misinterpret the Bible, they misinterpret the Prophets
Yes
First of all you're not the people of Revelation 14..! Who created that by the misinterpretation of Daniel 9:27 ..And you have no salvation message! ( But they will.).. . And you just implied that somebody's going to be perfect.. at some point in time.. but that's not what the Bible says! That's why Jesus came.. because we're never going to be perfect .. He took our place. God sees that I'm trusting Jesus to have taken my place.. that's the faith of Abraham Abraham was a sinner. that doesn't happen for SDA. So if you say you have no sin you are a liar!!. That versus going to stay just like that.. till you meet Jesus!.. and Ellen says you're going to stand in front of God without Jesus being your mediator!
Yeah I’ll go up in a puff of smoke standing next to God the Father UNLESS JESUS IS BY MYSIDE!!! It’s probably why we’re gonna live with Jesus for eternity because we’re so sinful
This man must work for the state because he has more acronyms than I can shake a stick at
Is Elijah LGT? Is Enoch LGT? Is Moses LGT? In time, people will be sealed and marked and the Bible says let the good be good. Let the bad be bad. Are they? LGT will not the bad people.
There are way too many labels being thrown around this world
I think maybe it’s after the ceiling and the marking that’s LGT I think and then Moses and Enoch and Elijah OK they’re sealed
Sda = modern jews. We 'have the truth'; we are the 'chosen people', and we are proud. (pride = sin) Jesus Christ has somewhat against us as sda's because we have strayed far, far from our first Love; the trinity is catholic. The Comforter is Jesus' Spirit; not a 3rd Individual/Spirit that is not Father/Son's Spirit. Sda membership is NOT the definition of the remnant either so our baptismal vows were corrupted with lies.
Like the Jew’s of Jesus’ first advent, Seventh-day Adventists have greater access to Truth and Divine blessings than every other religion on the planet. Along with the right arm of the gospel; the Bible (vegan) health message, in their keeping, by God's authority, are the words of the God of heaven for today's last-day generation; the very Testimony of Jesus Christ Himself through a modern day messenger of the LORD: Ellen Gould White. Is it any wonder that satan's greatest deployment of wolfish troops in sheep's sabbath-suits will be where the Light of God has shined most in the world? Make no mistake, the greatest works and efforts and agents of satan are aimed to smother, obscure, and counterfeit the Light of adventism.
The leadership, doctrine, spirit, and God of today's roman sda church, and that of 1844, are not the same. Today’s papal and sda leaders worship the same trinitarian god, and openly collaborate in fraternal alliance; in unity of spirit. Sda doctrine breaks the first commandment by worshiping a ‘third Person’ in the catholic trinitarian God. This is spiritualism; even teaching from the pulpit to pray to Another than the Father; even Another than the Son; a “Ghost” (satan). Sda universities are overrun with jesuits. Jesuts are catholic trained priests appointed to pastoral positions to purge pure Protestantism. The sda quarterly is carefully crafted by the spirit and leadership of jesuitism. Sda leaders constantly meet not only with the papacy, but also with world religions, the UN, and world leaders; signing contracts and strengthening many decades of alliance with them. Sda doctrine makes excuses for sacrificing to Baal newly conceived babies, and getting vaccines designed from their body parts. The sda church breaks the command of God to not forsake the assembling of ourselves together - in order to be politically correct and obey worldly fear propaganda. Sda authority tramples on freedom of conscience by persecuting those who are convicted to not get covid injections. The sda church funnels tithe to the papacy. The sda church has a tax contract (501c3) with the government. The sda church is a ‘safe space’ for lgbt proponents. The sda church allows proud lgbt promoters in the pulpit, and in leadership positions. The sda conference has approved of sunday-promoting books and other wicked ‘entertainment’ being sold under the sda name. The sda bookshelf is filled with books that have Ellen White's name on them that other men wrote after Ellen White died. Not a few of these books were written by catholic agents. The pride of the church, cloaked in a profession of humility, adamantly clings to her baptismal vow "The sda church is the remnant.", while worldly popular apostasy is sweeping every proud member into the abyss of eternal loss.
LGT =Traditional Adventism
What a bunch of confusion that you're trying to represent yourself as somehow going to be slightly perfected.. But you're never going to get there. One sin would keep you being a complete sinner... that's why the perfection is Jesus Christ. The Christian is( in) Jesus Christ. God looks at Jesus Christ on your behalf Jesus covers for you.! There's the perfection !!Jesus is perfect and has taken your place!. You're not believing that . That is what he judges you on.!!!! you've (been bought with a price.)!!!! The first goat and the second goat. The faith is in what happens there( in Jesus )!has covered for you. God looks at Jesus on your behalf (not you! )He only sees Jesus.. Jesus mediates for me! who is perfect! 1st Corinthians 6: 19-20. SDA has never gone there! You're describing SDA!
@@JamieElison what facts does Leviticus 16:20 states? Can you pinpoint where the confusion is???
@@JamieElison your theology is faulty, Jamie? Where does it say you have been bought with the two goats????
Here we go
@@10044thousand I imagine you're going to try to tell me that you're going to be perfect someday. On this Earth. And you are144,000.... When you can't even interpret Revelation 12. Or Daniel 8 or Daniel 7 or Daniel 11 or Daniel 12! Revelation 13 or Revelation 17.
@@Creationist432 it's always hard to speak to somebody that doesn't have the ability to concentrate!. And does not have the holy Spirit so they cannot understand scripture. 1st Corinthians 6:19+ 20 It was written right to you.. and you can't understand it!