I always find this channel a bit in favor of Enphase. Especially in its direct comparisons with SolarEdge. I think it would be more fair to compare the systems from a neutral point of view.
The round trip efficiency for Encharge when in output (AC) is 89% - AC to the battery to AC at 50% power rating. The backup power for SolarEdge Energy bank is higher too with their new Energy Hubs up to 10kW with a 11400 or 10k--so good video but some of your facts are a bit off and biased.
@@qwertybrain I can't speak for SolarEdge and if they can do this, but generally this means that if your solar inverter has a limit of say 10kW, and your solar panels are generating more than that, the extra is stored in the battery instead of being lost. AC-coupled batteries can't do that. Enphase inverters should be sized correctly and never have to throw away power though.
I am a professional installer. I have a few projects that have the Solar Edge technology and a few with the LG RChem battery. One of my LG Chem Batteries started to fail within 2 years. LG has a very poor warranty program. I am anxious to see the Solar Edge batteries performance.
@@dalerolph what are your thoughts on the FRANKLIN STORAGE Battery back up using 2 units verses Changing my Solaredge Inverter and using 2 Solaredge batteries? Which is a better system?
Wish you were in Masschusetts I have 2 quotes both have 37 REC Alpha Pure Black 405 panels and one has IQ8m Micro-Inverters and the other has a very large SolarEdge inverter as both installers know I want battery backup. One installer the one selling the IQ8m says they won't install a SolarEdge system since they have too many calls to replace and maintain them and they offer a production warranty that covers downtime as well as production. The SolarEdge estimate only offers a production warranty if system is running. The difference is that the IQ8m installer is $3,800 more. Both have excellent reviews. I am really torn here leaning towards the IQ8m since I am worried about a single point of failure. I am also concerned as I am getting the SolarEdge Hub and that is very expensive to replace out of warranty and it seems from my research that I would most likely have to replace it within a 15 year period but not sure.
You're imprecise. Extract from SolarEdge Energy Bank FAQs : Q: How much continuous power can be drawn during an outage? A: 5kW per Energy Bank battery with 7.5kW peak power; connect up to 3 Energy Bank batteries per SolarEdge Energy Hub inverter and up to 3 Energy Hub Inverters per Backup Interface, for a maximum of nine batteries, delivering up to 30.9kW of continuous backup power.
Question: Current system is, 1.5kW PV array with SMA SB1100 inverter (installed 2009). 2 Enphase AC batteries with Envoy S installed 2018. I want to expand battery capacity as a next step and will stick with Enphase. It will be difficult to run an AC cable to the PV array but could I install the Solar Edge Power Optimiser modules to my existing 2009 panels, replace the inverter as appropriate, then connect to the Envoy S? I’m in Sydney Australia and appreciate your explanations on this channel.
You are wrong. The entry level TESLA MODEL 3 is LFP and going forward TESLA will use LFP in their storage batteries and other entry and mid level vehicles. LFP is now the most common storage chemistry around the world. Here in UK most batteries are now LFP except for LG.
I am writing down a taboo: During cloudy skies the batteries will never be recharged. That means as an example if the weather is raining consecutively for 4 straight days or cloudy skies the batteries will stay .... empty... drained. The power grid never recharges the batteries.
SolarEdge's "unlimited" warranty is a joke! NMC batteries are good for: 1500-2000 cycles before dipping below 70% capacity. If used only as emergency back up, no big deal, you'll likely never get to 1500 cycles, but if used as energy shaving to power home in the afternoons every day, definitely avoid NMC and go with LFP. Overall, I would avoid NMC, it's a phasing-out chemistry.
Dale, are you quoting just the battery backup costs in the video? If so, it must be WAY MORE EXPENSIVE IN CA? Here in VA, the installers wanted 40% up front as a deposit, and couldn’t even give a firm install date last year due to Covid, so I went with Tesla power wall 2 x 2 batteries. I believe each one is 5 kw continuous use, about 26.5 total storage. I signed up before they quit doing battery’s without solar. I already had an 8.4 kw Sifab panel system with Enphase micro inverters from 2017. The delay from order to installation call was 6 months, but I changed location from garage to the workshop close to my panel box and meter. Redesign took until June 2021 but it’s all done and I’m happy. Only regret id I didn’t get at least one more. We’re getting a lot of cloudy weather the last two years, oh well, lol My cost was way less, I don’t want to post it in fear of hashing your great channel. If you would like to know, reply and I’ll let you know, thanks again
can you mix the battery bank? let's say you have one solaredge energy bank and you want to get another energy bank but you want to use LG Resu instead. is that possible or it has to be the same brand?
Your comment about max power on battery only is incorrect. The solaredge 7600 and larger can handle up to 10kw with minimum 2 batteries installed into a single inverter. Which means with 3 inverters on one system, you can reach a 30kw max on battery power alone.
Yea we want to see that 96% efficiency on paper. @97% efficiency on the roof with the micros they are saying just 1 more % loss from charge & discharge which we all know is a farce. Not highly impresses with either offering. In this day and age a higher output all in one solution should be brought main stream from one of these giants. We want simple high powered solutions to offer. These 3-5 unit solutions where they break it up to make it seem not so expensive just make it an annoyance to install. If a no name brand can make a 20kwh unit with 52A continuous output and built in inverter so can the big guys, they are just piecing us to death until batteries are mandatory.
SOLAR EDGE .I do not recommend it to anyone, it is a company with false promises in which I have been paying the loan since August 2021 and we are in March 2022 and I am still paying the electricity companies and the solar loan and no one has a solution. I do not recommend them . Is the worst decision I have ever made 😫
That data isn't incorrect, the SolarEdge energy bank battery can only output during a grid outage in backup mode 5kW max regardless if you have 2 batteries connected to it, whereas you can have 4 IQ 10 batteries connected together for up-to 15.36kW of backup power. If you're comparing a single battery then sure the energy bank is 5kW and the IQ10 is 3.84kW but when you add a second battery then SolarEdge is still just 5kW while the IQ 10 is now 7.6kW
@@dalerolph Haha, i am not enphase pro nor SolarEdge, just compare apples to apples here, now you are saying 4 IQ 10 Batteries, People need to understand here is that 4 IQ 10 batteries means 12 iq8 batt inverters inside it, its same as adding another 2 inverter to SolarEdge batteries, Also SolarEdge can provide 10 kw back up when using 10 kw or higher energy hub inverter , provided two batteries are daisy chained into single inverter. So still I will say your data sheet is mis leading. compare apples to apples.
@@benitpokharel4328 the problem is two inverters with a battery for each is more expensive then 3 IQ 10 batteries. Not to mention you're splitting your system among these two inverters which you may not have enough solar panels for, you're just adding more equipment to potentially fail and complicating the project. We did this for a customer, it's not ideal. You're also neglecting the fact that Enphase IQ8 micro inverter increase backup capabilities during the day so you could have a 8kW solar system giving you 32 amps of backup PLUS two IQ 10 batteries giving you another 32 amps for a total backup power of 64 amps during the day. You're still restricted by SolarEdge's inverter regardless of the size of the solar or batteries, you only get 5kW in backup no matter what per inverter.
@@dalerolph No if you compare both system with all balance of system they run out to be similar. I am again saying I am not SolarEdge nor Enphase Pro both of them have their own disadvantage and advantage, if you say adding another solar edge inverter requires more solar power, so does adding another sets of IQ10 BATTERY, you cannot add battery simply and except it to be charged itself right? if you think grid charging an option then both of them can provide grid charging if the utility permits. yes sunlight back up is something emphases has extra, but if they have to run in self isolation mode then you cannot back up more than 2 ,3 circuits during day, so lots of innovation is still needed. still in AHJ that doesn't incorporate power control system , adding IQ 10 batteries triggers more panel upgrades Straight fact. i am not here to discuss about products ,i commented because the data sheets comparison was not Fair, we install both products we are certified installers for both products, we use both products case by case basis .To say frankly Both products sucks when the system size grows larger, ( we installed both system in one house here in palm desert California one after another, as customer was not happy with the product provided, unfortunately both system failed , the system size was large 20 kw system with 4 IQ 10 Battery) there are not better products in market that can solve the consumers choice, the technology is growing hope something gets better.
I always find this channel a bit in favor of Enphase. Especially in its direct comparisons with SolarEdge. I think it would be more fair to compare the systems from a neutral point of view.
they’re both great in their own way. coming from an installer
Agreed, this channel is pro enphase. But that doesn't bother me as much as the title ending with a preposition!
If you check the website for PST, they are an enphase installer so of course they're going to be biased.
The round trip efficiency for Encharge when in output (AC) is 89% - AC to the battery to AC at 50% power rating. The backup power for SolarEdge Energy bank is higher too with their new Energy Hubs up to 10kW with a 11400 or 10k--so good video but some of your facts are a bit off and biased.
And on top of 5% efficiency advantage, DC coupling charges the battery under high irradiance instead of clipping.
@@christhompson9450 can you elaborate?
@@qwertybrain I can't speak for SolarEdge and if they can do this, but generally this means that if your solar inverter has a limit of say 10kW, and your solar panels are generating more than that, the extra is stored in the battery instead of being lost. AC-coupled batteries can't do that. Enphase inverters should be sized correctly and never have to throw away power though.
@Jo Blow Thanks. Is there any advantage to AC coupling?
This video is brought to you By Enphase.
I am a professional installer. I have a few projects that have the Solar Edge technology and a few with the LG RChem battery. One of my LG Chem Batteries started to fail within 2 years. LG has a very poor warranty program. I am anxious to see the Solar Edge batteries performance.
We haven’t offered LG Chem batteries for close to three years now. They’ve never had good service or supper but the pandemic really pushed them over.
@@dalerolph what are your thoughts on the FRANKLIN STORAGE Battery back up using 2 units verses Changing my Solaredge Inverter and using 2 Solaredge batteries? Which is a better system?
Wish you were in Masschusetts I have 2 quotes both have 37 REC Alpha Pure Black 405 panels and one has IQ8m Micro-Inverters and the other has a very large SolarEdge inverter as both installers know I want battery backup. One installer the one selling the IQ8m says they won't install a SolarEdge system since they have too many calls to replace and maintain them and they offer a production warranty that covers downtime as well as production. The SolarEdge estimate only offers a production warranty if system is running. The difference is that the IQ8m installer is $3,800 more. Both have excellent reviews. I am really torn here leaning towards the IQ8m since I am worried about a single point of failure. I am also concerned as I am getting the SolarEdge Hub and that is very expensive to replace out of warranty and it seems from my research that I would most likely have to replace it within a 15 year period but not sure.
You're imprecise. Extract from SolarEdge Energy Bank FAQs
:
Q: How much continuous power can be drawn during an outage?
A: 5kW per Energy Bank battery with 7.5kW peak power; connect up to 3 Energy Bank batteries per
SolarEdge Energy Hub inverter and up to 3 Energy Hub Inverters per Backup Interface, for a maximum
of nine batteries, delivering up to 30.9kW of continuous backup power.
And that's 3 per inverter. Could have 9 total. Totally biased and inaccurate review.
Question:
Current system is, 1.5kW PV array with SMA SB1100 inverter (installed 2009). 2 Enphase AC batteries with Envoy S installed 2018.
I want to expand battery capacity as a next step and will stick with Enphase.
It will be difficult to run an AC cable to the PV array but could I install the Solar Edge Power Optimiser modules to my existing 2009 panels, replace the inverter as appropriate, then connect to the Envoy S?
I’m in Sydney Australia and appreciate your explanations on this channel.
You are wrong. The entry level TESLA MODEL 3 is LFP and going forward TESLA will use LFP in their storage batteries and other entry and mid level vehicles. LFP is now the most common storage chemistry around the world. Here in UK most batteries are now LFP except for LG.
Great job guys! Thank you for the detailed break down on specs and pricing options.
I am writing down a taboo:
During cloudy skies the batteries will never be recharged.
That means as an example if the weather is raining consecutively for 4 straight days or cloudy skies the batteries will stay .... empty... drained.
The power grid never recharges the batteries.
Amazing battery and amazing inverter
Does the inverter work if internet isn’t working?
Sold My first lg 10kWh battery + storeedge. Was just above 7k excl 21% tax. Why is it so expensive in US..? (Coming from the EU)
SolarEdge's "unlimited" warranty is a joke! NMC batteries are good for: 1500-2000 cycles before dipping below 70% capacity. If used only as emergency back up, no big deal, you'll likely never get to 1500 cycles, but if used as energy shaving to power home in the afternoons every day, definitely avoid NMC and go with LFP. Overall, I would avoid NMC, it's a phasing-out chemistry.
Good job Dale.... informative wrap
Great video. Bottom line, unfortunately all battery storage systems are way way over priced at this time.
Dale, are you quoting just the battery backup costs in the video? If so, it must be WAY MORE EXPENSIVE IN CA?
Here in VA, the installers wanted 40% up front as a deposit, and couldn’t even give a firm install date last year due to Covid, so I went with Tesla power wall 2 x 2 batteries. I believe each one is 5 kw continuous use, about 26.5 total storage. I signed up before they quit doing battery’s without solar. I already had an 8.4 kw Sifab panel system with Enphase micro inverters from 2017. The delay from order to installation call was 6 months, but I changed location from garage to the workshop close to my panel box and meter. Redesign took until June 2021 but it’s all done and I’m happy. Only regret id I didn’t get at least one more. We’re getting a lot of cloudy weather the last two years, oh well, lol
My cost was way less, I don’t want to post it in fear of hashing your great channel. If you would like to know, reply and I’ll let you know, thanks again
can you mix the battery bank? let's say you have one solaredge energy bank and you want to get another energy bank but you want to use LG Resu instead. is that possible or it has to be the same brand?
Have you looked at Mango Power Union and it’s potential use as whole house backup system?
Really interesting, but our SE inverter is far too old (~2014) to support any sort of battery
I’ve heard of SE offering free inverter upgrades to those with the old model buying a battery
How is this compared to the Ecoflow Delta Pro?
What does enphase pay this Guy🤣🤣🤣
“M” is for Manganese not Magnesium
Who do you recommend in the Orlando FL area for solar sale and install?
Freedom forever
Can you use an enphase iq10 on a SolarEdge Energy hub inverter?
You cannot. LG chems, Solaredge battery and older A series storedge inverter models can work with the Tesla Power Wall 1
I appreciate what you're doing, but this is not a fair comparison and definitely biased and inaccurate. I think you can do better
title a bit misleading not a review at all , but an anaphase comparison .
Just one or two other LFP manufacturers 😅
Your comment about max power on battery only is incorrect. The solaredge 7600 and larger can handle up to 10kw with minimum 2 batteries installed into a single inverter. Which means with 3 inverters on one system, you can reach a 30kw max on battery power alone.
what year was this created
This was Q4 of last year, SolarEdge had just started shipping the Energy Bank.
Yea we want to see that 96% efficiency on paper. @97% efficiency on the roof with the micros they are saying just 1 more % loss from charge & discharge which we all know is a farce. Not highly impresses with either offering. In this day and age a higher output all in one solution should be brought main stream from one of these giants. We want simple high powered solutions to offer. These 3-5 unit solutions where they break it up to make it seem not so expensive just make it an annoyance to install. If a no name brand can make a 20kwh unit with 52A continuous output and built in inverter so can the big guys, they are just piecing us to death until batteries are mandatory.
SOLAR EDGE .I do not recommend it to anyone, it is a company with false promises in which I have been paying the loan since August 2021 and we are in March 2022 and I am still paying the electricity companies and the solar loan and no one has a solution. I do not recommend them . Is the worst decision I have ever made 😫
What part of the US are you in and what is your system size/setup?
THAT DATA COMAPRISON IS WRONG, COMPARE ONE SOLREDGE BATTERY WITH ONE ENPHASE IQ 10. THE MAXIMUM BACK UP POWER IS JUST 3.84 KW NOT 15.36 KW.
That data isn't incorrect, the SolarEdge energy bank battery can only output during a grid outage in backup mode 5kW max regardless if you have 2 batteries connected to it, whereas you can have 4 IQ 10 batteries connected together for up-to 15.36kW of backup power. If you're comparing a single battery then sure the energy bank is 5kW and the IQ10 is 3.84kW but when you add a second battery then SolarEdge is still just 5kW while the IQ 10 is now 7.6kW
@@dalerolph Haha, i am not enphase pro nor SolarEdge, just compare apples to apples here, now you are saying 4 IQ 10 Batteries, People need to understand here is that 4 IQ 10 batteries means 12 iq8 batt inverters inside it, its same as adding another 2 inverter to SolarEdge batteries, Also SolarEdge can provide 10 kw back up when using 10 kw or higher energy hub inverter , provided two batteries are daisy chained into single inverter. So still I will say your data sheet is mis leading. compare apples to apples.
@@benitpokharel4328 the problem is two inverters with a battery for each is more expensive then 3 IQ 10 batteries. Not to mention you're splitting your system among these two inverters which you may not have enough solar panels for, you're just adding more equipment to potentially fail and complicating the project. We did this for a customer, it's not ideal. You're also neglecting the fact that Enphase IQ8 micro inverter increase backup capabilities during the day so you could have a 8kW solar system giving you 32 amps of backup PLUS two IQ 10 batteries giving you another 32 amps for a total backup power of 64 amps during the day. You're still restricted by SolarEdge's inverter regardless of the size of the solar or batteries, you only get 5kW in backup no matter what per inverter.
@@dalerolph No if you compare both system with all balance of system they run out to be similar. I am again saying I am not SolarEdge nor Enphase Pro both of them have their own disadvantage and advantage, if you say adding another solar edge inverter requires more solar power, so does adding another sets of IQ10 BATTERY, you cannot add battery simply and except it to be charged itself right? if you think grid charging an option then both of them can provide grid charging if the utility permits.
yes sunlight back up is something emphases has extra, but if they have to run in self isolation mode then you cannot back up more than 2 ,3 circuits during day, so lots of innovation is still needed. still in AHJ that doesn't incorporate power control system , adding IQ 10 batteries triggers more panel upgrades Straight fact.
i am not here to discuss about products ,i commented because the data sheets comparison was not Fair, we install both products we are certified installers for both products, we use both products case by case basis .To say frankly Both products sucks when the system size grows larger, ( we installed both system in one house here in palm desert California one after another, as customer was not happy with the product provided, unfortunately both system failed , the system size was large 20 kw system with 4 IQ 10 Battery) there are not better products in market that can solve the consumers choice, the technology is growing hope something gets better.
Enphase, overly complex, & it isn’t compatible w/ anything else. Difference between any reliable Ford to a VW Pasat.
wel thats a bunchs of horses droppings the battery we all wait for is not made but posible now thnx to panasonic
Enphase is stupid.. SolarEdge is much better in most or almost all things that matter.
Please elaborate
except reliability
Enphase is a better system.