its very confusing why blizzard is so terrified of tanks being too tanky, I would take wiping to an over zealous tank overpulling vs wiping to my tank making a single mistake regarding any single tank buster in the dungeon, because atleast in the first scenario we would have tanks playing the game. I would make the argument that failing a key to a single group wipe was where we really fucked up.
I don't play tank. But if all tanks are too tanky passively, there's little reason to be anything more than a DPS that gets hit. For now, it feel like Blizzard wants to keep the roles as distinct as they can.
@@calvincotton1998 This is exactly why they did this. The healer was outright optional, MDI was full of 1 tank 4 dps teams, and even for regular folks the sustain of tanks was absolutely outrageous. Your entire party could wipe and be forced to slowly walk back to where they died, and the tank would just be sitting there soloing them with his health bar hardly moving. The results aren't great so far, but this is still a necessary step to add a lot more interactivity and depth to m+. A tank and healer should never have 0 interactivity. It *should* feel different to heal a dk vs a bear vs brewmaster, etc.
@@JD-hc5rv wow 2k io andy refers to +10 MDI keys done by professional players. Hate to break it to you, but these people will do the same regardless of how much blizzard nerfs tanks, and you will never be able to finish a key without a healer regardless of how much they buff tanks
Tank is not fun with the current balance, I'm sorry i know there are people who enjoy tanks but the effort is just not worth the reward and the amount of times you still fail keys because your DPS are boosted and push 600k dps as frost mage in a +10 is too damn high
I would honestly just go ahead and introduce m+ talents like in pvp. So you can give every healer a CR and interrupt, every tank some type of immunity etc and while at it reduce the cd of an interrupt that didnt actually interrupt anything by half. you will piss of a lot of players if you just go ahead and make all the specs work the same, but I just pugged an entire season of m+ and these things would just immensely help pug meta. in the end the tank meta always comes down to DPS output and utlity, not even defensive tank abilities.
Pally only feels powerful because they have 5 defensive cds with a proc cd and high parry. If you go into a pull in a higher key with no defensives and unlucky parries you will die in a few seconds. The base defensive strength right now is pretty terrible for every tank. That is for higher keys usually with players with higher skill. That trickles down to lower keys being an awful experience with many tanks not using every defensive cd perfectly or kicking every cast. The difference in skill and coordination as a group can make a 10 key feel harder than a 14 15 right now. I think Blizzard either has to reduce the damage of white swings or buff every tanks base defense. No tank finds it enjoyable when you can play almost perfectly but will die from lack of healing, running out of defensives, or a missed stun or kick.
Blizzard never learns. It’s why they are losing players to other games in the current market. PoE2 is eating the D4 player base. Marvel rivals is eating the overwatch player base. Both games as of the last couple of years have done very poorly.
@@madjackgamingandfitness498 I think they can do way better, but that argument of "they are losing players" every single game is losing players, nowdays nothing is perfect, everyone has to cry about something. - I know, blizzard did some dumb shit this season, and prio seasons too, but players have to turn down their hate. Imagine, they are tryingto implement things players wished (housing next xpac, dinars/bulions next patch, doing changes to tune down and up classes) - you cant complain about tanks in next season, while they are mid-balancing the season. Just look at last patchontes, how much they are nerfing, they already nerfed more than the entire season 1 lasted. Be happy about changes, if i would be a dev, and those players are never happy, ofc i would put less efford in, why would i keep trying my best/involve as much feedback as possible, if 50% of the players are crying anyway. You can say tanks need buffs, if you havent seen the final state of season 2 - like i hear "oh man, pally so op, so many interrupts" the new dungeon can be fully interrupted by 3 melees. - imagine saying you need prot pally for interrupts
@@avinion imo the content is generally too easy right now. I agree that it's a bit unfortunate that tanks tend to be the ones being the bottleneck but currently we are in a situation that you can farm the best gear in the game your eyes closed and that's just kinda dumb. Either 10s need to be more difficult or gear gated behind harder content imo
@@teemukarppinen9462Why all the gatekeeping rofl? People want to have fun playing this game. And tbh 10 is hard enough as it is, and I've played the game for 20 years. The change they implemented with stuns and knockbacks no longer resetting spellcasts this season really hurts a lot of comps and it's not fun to play. Heck 99% of my guild quit playing WoW over a month to go because of reasons like that and zero content.
Loving my Blood tank, but I haven’t pushed anything too challenging yet. I haven’t played endgame since Warlords, but it sounds like tanks have had a rough go lately…
@@Swarley218 I like BDK. I have been tanking on my DK for years. BDK atm feels like a shell of itself from former xpacs, especially since last expansion. The 1shots blood faces compared to other tanks just doesn't feel fair at times. I could run the same dungeon, but easily push 2 keys higher with my warrior or prot pal. Blood is still my favorite tank, but dks in general need some love. Build diversity feels bad imo.
Proper balance is having more powerful classes than majority being weak. More players having fun is always a net positive than the few that are meta mains.
y, themewise and raid the saison looks like it should be a banger, but m+ feels very much like dead on arrival currently. I fcking don´t get why it´s so hard for them to let players have fun.
@@Eulrich Most players just want to big pull multiple groups of trash mobs and aoe them down. Instead of designing their game for that playstyle, Blizzard thinks that's degenerate gameplay and instead wants every second trash group to feel like a mini bossfight...
@@Shapookya i mean i think you need variety, but that should include more than one big fun pull of big dps per dungeon. And lots of not super technical pulls. Right now it´s just all 100% focused or you can die 100-0 on almost any pull and it´s absolutely terrible to play. I really do not understand what they think they´re accomplishing here other than maybe beating shadowlands in lost subscriptions.
imo variety should come from a handful of tough but optional mini boss trash mobs that are spread throughout the dungeon that give a lot of percentage and a temporary buff, similar to Shadowlands S1. Just have optional tough enemies in the dungeon that players can either choose to fight for the big buff that will help them delete a big pack and/or boss afterwards, or they can choose to ignore that tough enemy and do more big pulls instead. They can even integrate them into the weekly affix rotation and shuffle them around a bit or change the buff that you get from them.
What stupid way to try to win back Tanks and heals, this is the opposite of what we are looking for, they do not listen or care, DPS will be in queue for weeks instead of days
lol brewmaster have been screaming for 2 expansion for fixes.. instead we got a bunch of borrowed power bullshit and we finnly mentioned in TWW patch notes.
I dont know whats up with blizzard and "increased dmg and decreased cast timer to make keys more demanding to coordination", 90% of keys are not coordinated pugs, and if theres an actual need to coordinate in a key, the key is dead in 80% of situations, do they want m+ to die?
Judging by the state of things so far, they are pushing people to delves and away from PUG M+. The first 8 weeks of the new season will be meta only accepted into groups.
Mythic+ is built and tuned around having a coordinated group to play with-particularly on the high end. While I'd say it's fair to wager that the majority of keys are not run with premade groups (or even comms), remember that even having all dungeons timed at a +10 puts you in the top 10% of players. Changes that severely impact people playing in the upper strata of keys have next to no tangible impact on lower ones. That said, their current mentality is not perfect. It sucks being in that middle category of people that want to push but don't have teams to play with consistently, and even having a team, changes like those made to stops vs. kicks make content more tedious than challenging. It'd be nice if they took more time to think this stuff through. Dunno. Guess we'll just have to wait and see if Blizzard can figure out where they want M+ gameplay to be and what it's supposed to look like. They're clearly not satisfied with the way people have been playing.
I don't understand this sentiment, you don't need any real coordination to do +10 keys. With a +10 it's just dependent on individual skill/knowledge, you can still end up not timing a +10 of course, but it's rarely due to coordination and usually due to someone not actively utilizing their class and spec properly. When you start doing +15 keys and above you do need coordination, you start using discord even when you're pugging because you'd never time one without it. You plan your routes and different cooldowns together. The sentiment that all balance changes are inherently bad unless they are made with lower end players in mind is just weird when you consider that a lot of patch notes are clearly meant for the very top level of keys, and rarely impact any key level under +12 to a significant degree. That's certainly not always the case, but at least usually. So many of these "casts" can go off in a +10, and you'll be fine with some spontaneous player input, healer cooldown or personal defensive. You can essentially "brute-force" the coordination by playing reactively instead of proactively, which a lot of pugs at that level do. It's only when you get to the proper high keys that scaling absolutely demands coordination and proactive planning, because the frequently cast interruptible spells that tickled or itched when they went off in a +10, one shot you on +15 or above. It's like expecting Mythic raiding to be designed with pugging in mind. It's not really meant to be something you can pug or do with no coordination. The skill ceiling is made FROM the coordination required. But because Mythic+ is viewed as this one huge category, people don't understand when it impacts them or not. When raiding is scaled, it says "heroic", or "mythic", so it's very easy for blizzard to clearly communicate what level of gameplay these changes affect. Mythic+ doesn't have that clearly "defined" separation in difficulty as it's based on scaling, so lower keys will always be affected at least to a tiny degree by balance changes meant for the top level. But people need to understand that the changes are rarely bad at the key level most players aspire to. The huge problem you see that's strongly defined in higher keys is the viability of each tank, healing and damage class/spec. The differences in utility and kit are mind boggling at times. That's the true issue in my head. You have 99th percentile players left in the dirt when compared to 80th percentile players just because of the class and/or spec they play. Don't get me wrong though, Blizzard has of course had some truly awful changes that have impacted even the lower keys over the years, but usually they are made with scaling in mind. The class and spec tuning however, seems to at times be hostile to certain classes and specs with regards to M+. I suspect that's because most tuning is done based on raiding metrics, but I'll never know for sure.
3:33 This feels kinda bad. Like you said, if you're playing correctly, your abilities line up in time with the mechanics. This is what makes playing a class well, feel good.
Every season 2 since BFA has been fucked. This is the norm for Blizz and if players want a fun game come back in S3 when they listen to community feedback
Hard disagree with "well deserved nerfs"! Why are we nerfing the only tank that feels good, in a time where there is already a massive tank shortage, instead of just buffing the other tanks? Making tanking feel even worse is not the route to take, and making the only tank that doesnt feel as bad worse just because the others suck is even less so the route to take
It is a well deserved nerf when in some packs you out dps actual dps and ignite is top dmg. You still have multiple silences, immune, sac, wog, it's only fair that you aren't as tanky. Buffing all tanks to do massive dps isn't the answer
WoG has really lost a huge amount of it’s old effectiveness. If you WoG spam to save a group you’re oom quick snd need more mana breaks than the healer. On the dps side it wasn’t that uncommon for DH and warrior to share those aoe meter spots.
@@madjackgamingandfitness498 I main a prot warrior and me prot pala with 10 less ilvl would out dps my warrior. So that's totally untrue. Just being able to wog or spellwarding to save someone is an option most other tanks don't even have. A warrior intercept shield is 500k hp for example, where as my wog crits for 4 mil. The utility is incomparable, you add the extra dps on top and it's way too strong.
It’s ok they want us to play a class and spec that’s bug called vdh , cos blizz doesn’t know how to fix it till 11.1.5 patch so we would need to reroll again
Prot Pally damage profile actually feels great. It feels so much nicer to actually put out nummers as a tank. Instead of pally doing less, the rest should be doing more.
Blizzard is always dead set on nerfing fun stuff instead sadly. I don't get how they can be so tone deaf all the time. They have people complaining up the wazoo about their 'fixes' and they just keep their head in the sand.
As a Prot Right now you are pretty much a 4th dps. That is NOT how tanks should be. Doing 1.5M overall is way too much. Other tanks are doing fine dmg, pala just do too much. Defensive nerf is weird tho
Yeah, tanks aren't supposed to be doing that much damage honestly. Main tanked saying that too. It's just not the way. Roles should be clearly defined and nothing about tank damage should make a difference.
Not sure why blizz is so dense... tanks are in a bad spot because of the nerf they handed them at the start of TWW... want to fix the tanks? REVERT THE FUCKING NERF. But seriously, tanks need help not more nerfs. Don't nerf the one tank thats holding it's own right now, buff the others to match it. Their thinking is always so backwards.
Season 3 and 4 of SL felt better than DF season 1, Last season of Legion felt better than Season 1 of BFA, Season 4 BFA was goated vs SL Season 1. - its always like this Ofc it feels better, chars scale, more gear, more stats, more fun in gameplay, some chars getting reworks, ppl learn the dungeons and so on
@@pettron3506 S3/4 was shit if you weren't playing VDH. Prepatch S4 was best of the xpac because other tanks could get into groups easily with double sigils gone. That said yes it was still worlds better than TWW S1, this has been my least enjoyed season in M+ history.
@@onkek As i said, to the end of an xpac its always better. comparing s1 vs s4 of something is just bad - its like saying "first class vs 10th class oh man, how good it was" - time changes, and the beginning of an xpac was always horrible for tanks, no one knows dungeon,s nothing gets stopped in pugs, weak ilvl, weak scalling, most likely bad trinkets and so on. people are just to frustrated is crazy
Everyone: hey blizz you made tanking and healing suck, can you do something about it Blizzard: don't worry we got you. You know that singular class that is able to hit the hardest content? Everyone: Yeah Blizzard: Instead of buffing all tanks to that level we are going to nerf that one to. GLHF everyone. Everyone: 😞💩
This does nothing for Brewmaster. A max stack Celestial Brew was still only a 2 million absorb at the absolute max (more like 1.6 mil on average) on my monk ilvl 627. Healthpool is absolutely tiny in comparison to BDK, Vengeance and Guardian, but still i got 8 mil hp roughly and 1.6 mil shield is a tiny 20% absorb on a FULL STACK shield, its gone in a single regular melee swing from trash mobs. Brewmaster is still garbage. And the biggest issue is the Keg smash radius being so tiny it hits half a trashpack, its hard to keep aggro with all these giga blaster DPS specs like enhancement for example. It needs more than this, way more.
I think that was the biggest thing I hated about brewmaster, even with 10 stacks of purified chi the celestial brew shield is a fucking joke and evaporates in less than a second. The only time it actually feels good is if you clear stagger in red all the time and for most content you aren't in red stagger super often. It just feels bad. Bring back keg of the heavens.
“Prot pally meta” really only applies to such a small percentage of players. Adequately geared tanks should be juggernauts in weekly keys. Healing should be easier. They are killing the game to cater to the smallest percentage of players. Who cares if broken tanks lets the top .1% do degenerate things, let the vast majority of players enjoy playing the game.
CB was actually something I wanted buffed, but this is not enough. Lowest health pool + almost no stagger on magic damage means those chain caster packs that no longer interrupt on hard cc hit us the hardest. Aggro is still a problem, utility is low, we're not good at gathering packs... We almost nothing that another tank can't do better in m+, I would say all the other classes you could make an argument for one aspect that they excel in.
These nerfs won't matter to anyone not doing above 12s, and prot is still the only tank with multiple and chain interrupts in a season where stops and stuns still don't prevent casts.
Think he means prot pal. Mine gets around 80% of overall interrupts. And then there’s WoG, LoH, sac etc. Shit is broken af. Don’t know if the nerfs are enough.
@@frytas93 I can't express enough the importance of reducing casters in dungeons. They SAID they were going to lessen trash pull tank busters, make important casts longer, and reduce smaller casts in general... Now to see if they follow through.
Him agreeing on Pally nerfs instead of buffing the others in the current state of the game is everything i need to know. I will not consider your opinion in the future buddy..
Agreed. The ironic part is he puts out a video explaining the problems with m+ and then supports this. Blizzard is doing a good job driving people away.
because he knows what he is talking about more than people who cry of buff to a class and can't see how the role itself is getting buffed. 1. they nerfed tank busters = general increase in survivability for all tanks 2. season 2 dungeon pool is low on tank damage with exception to Priory = general increase in survivability for all tanks 3. they nerfed prot pala = all other tanks are no longer overshadowed by prot pala
@@CL-jq1xs there are two possible aproaches to get a fair Balancing for tanks after s1, buff "unfun" Tanks or make the "most fun" one slightly less fun. (Fun istn always Equal to "OP" but in this case it is for me and maybe the 88% Prot Palas right now..) So its not a "Right" or "Wrong" in terms of balancing: both works, its a "Right" or "Wrong" in Terms of bringing the PLAYERS BACK after the all time low we currently have. Points: 1-2: Some good changes i agree, still not convinced (for now) its enough or 2. will be well realised.. 3. for Example: Do you think an Monk Tank sees the only Tank /class changes being some Prot nerves makes him say "Great, lets try Monk again" or would he rather say that after seing some Monk buffs?
Prot Warrior about to be BFA season 1 type of bad. Shield Charge doesnt mean shit when you face down in the dirt because you only get to hit IP once every 10 secs.
Two issues with prot warrior. 1) Ignore pain being godly or even better does not make up for warrior having the least amount of utility out of all tanks. 2) Having a godly tier set (ie borrowed power) means that the positive sentiment is built on a house of cards. All it takes is one weak tier set for all to come tumbling down. I'd rather see baseline changes.
least amount of utility goes to brew not warrior. Generally, people who think prot have the lowest utility is due to not knowing how to spell reflect and intervene. Both require knowledge of dungeon specific abilities.
@@CL-jq1xs Spell reflect is not utility, it is a defensive that has offensive capabilities if the spell is reflectable. Very few mechanics can cheese with spell reflect. Intervene was never taken until the new hero talent due to it being very low use case on a very competitive talent tree. Intervene with storm shield is only useful in 8-10's, which I bet is where you are hardstuck. And no, Brew has a poison/disease dispel, mob displacement, skips enabled via para/RoP, an out-of-combat resurrect, and a soothe. I put Brew probably second lowest, but there is still a sizable gap between lowest and second lowest. Very low IO take, but I guess that is to be expected here.
I've seen this song and dance before. I give it 3-4 weeks into 11.1 before they flip these around, warrior to the viable pile, prot paladins to the 'they're fine, all tanks are fine, they don't need nerfing, sure they do top dps and have unparalleled utility' pile.
Sure nerf tanks more… Zoom out. All of the talks regarding m+ problems reduce to Massive Tank/healer shortage and very low participation and clear rates above +10… This is a total brain dead change and shows the armchair perspective that Content Creators and blizz where they balance in a unrealistic vacuum. Any thoughts on how class nerfs in anyway will increase the participation, clear rates, and satisfaction in anyway?
nah they balancing in a way that someone who only look at class buff/nerf wouldn't understand. 1. they nerfed tank busters = general increase in survivability for all tanks 2. season 2 dungeon pool is low on tank damage with exception to Priory = general increase in survivability for all tanks 3. they nerfed prot pala = all other tanks are no longer overshadowed by prot pala but people eyes only focuses on point 3.... because they don't understand
I've tanked only on prot pala, and by no means I'm a good tank, but beyond a +10 it felt horrible. I will most likely not tank in Season 2 with those white swings. If prot already felt that bad, I can't imagine how bad the rest feels. Buff the others instead of making prot feel worse. I'll just stick with DPS because I have no issues doing +13~14 keys.
Prot warrior needs way more buffs to be playable quazi they overnerfed our rage regen a spec who usually played fast and spammed more and they made us way more slow apm it feels bad. Also rage regen nerf means our dps already was low now even lower
Brewmaster isn't "downbad," it's in a healthy spot, neither completely shit nor OP. It's the 2nd most played raid tank on Queen Ansurek Mythic, the two highest non-Pally tanks in M+ are Brewmasters from China. You could change Brewmaster all you want, it probably still wouldn't be more desirable than Protection Paladin as long as you didn't completely overbuff it into the stratosphere.
This is not true at all. Brew feels good. And the purified chi changes are a good buff. It's a complex spec.. if you play it bad, then prepare to be punished.
if top BrM player say they are good going into season 2 i would believe that over a low io player. Season 2 dungeons aren't high on high tank damage so BrM can focus on damage. Not to mention the tank buster nerfs. They still won't be meta but probably middle of the pack.... but maybe that is your idea of bad. Now that prot pala is nerfed, not all tanks are bad compared to prot pala.
the problem wasnt prot paladin, the problem was everybody talking about prot paladin being good in 16s+ when thats like what 1% of the playerbase doing those keys? Its not EVERYTHING its not even close and wasnt close. Ive seen EVERY tank under the sun tank anywhere from 10-14s. and even 10-14s is also a small % of the playerbase.. the problem was everybody thinking that the only thing that matters was a +16.
I wouldn't go as far as to say that. M+ tanking has felt rough since 10-12s around the first couple of months. Warrior was the same old story since BFA. Very tanky, very lacking in group utility. Prot paladin was strong yes, but squishy and dead without a CD for every kind of tank buster, but much better group utility. Nerfing prot paladin over and over again is not the solution, and seeing blizzard just focus that as their solution is actually what made me quit, because as I See here, no reason to come back. Blizzard doesn't want to change philosophy, just nerf nerf nerf. Designing meaningfully is too much work for them. ANd seeing those warrior nerfs weeks ago made me facepalm.
The problem with pal prot, it's a tank designed to be a support tank with nice tools to help group however his damages is still the best among all tanks. IF he is tank support , he can't be the best in damages, Kit has to be balanced.
Again another failure by blizz. Tanks only needed buffs to equalize them a bit more. The tank busters and interuptable abilities needed to be reduced. Better healer heals output. Another step back with the best intentions
the tanks buster were already reduced, and season 2 dungeon pool is not tank damage heavy to begin with except for Priory. So tanks are not only going to tankier in season 2 they will also not get overshawed by prot pala due to the nerf to it.
The problem with these continued tank nerfs is that the middle 50% of the playerbase, in terms of skill, likely aren't leveraging the power of these talents anyway so their survivability will continue to be mediocre without much notice. In that sense it's not Prot Paladin that's being nerfed, but only the "good" Prot Paladins who are nerfed. Doesn't sound good for PUGs.
You are not in sync with your audience.. read your comments quazii.. everyone thinks what you're saying here is horses***... You really hit the mark with this upload.. I'd consider taking it down, take the l and try again
See you in one month with another "Blizzard, we need to talk" video because there will be no more tanks/healers left in S2 for Quazii to make content. But hey, prot pallys were nerfed 'righfuly so'. This is Helldivers 2 all over again I swear.
At this point I'm wondering, are the devs completely incompetent, high on their own farts or are they imposters from some other mmo actively trying to make everything they touch worse.
Yep, they definitely need to scale Stagger differently in raids and dungeons. I believe it had something to do with something called "K value". Read about it on wowhead somewhere.
The fact that they ¨fixed¨ Vengeance DH is so sad... That shit was the most fun I have had in years in this game! Besides I didn't really view it as a bug since it would proc Meta and not just Demon Form, so the interactions was right to begin with.
why nerf prot pala just buff others tanks! playing tank already feel bad and now they nerf the cool one basic blizzard move. f*ck that i am not going to tank keys anymore i have enough stress in my life and wont be adding to it by dying in a 4-5 mob pull if i miss a GCD.
I totally understand the nerfs to prot paladin, its wat ahead of anything else right now. But i loved prot paladin for its insane damage, and its cdr on almost its entire toolkit. Having so much cdr feels really rewarding for doing your rotation correctly
Blizzard just keeps digging and not understanding. I honestly feel that one of the head people is responsible for the end of S3 nerfs and is just unable to admit their own mistake. They literally need to completely unwind the "tank changes" from the end of s3
great, i can't wait to play prot warrior and (checks notes) be designed around a tier set that 1. sounds clunky af and 2. will be gone after this season. what a joke
Picking a main is pointless even as the Season starts. Bear was meta at S1 start, then Warrior overtook it, then DH's started looking alright, then Prot Paladin came in and plowed over them all. This all happened within Season 1. Pick what you find fun to play + like the playstyle. At some point your class will be good in a season with tuning (Unless you're a Brewmaster, then you're fucked)
Its crazy to me that they see Mythic+ is dying and instead having a lighter touch on difficulty they double down on it and nerf tanks more. All of these changes are just going to make it more miserable for the average player who just wants to enjoy casual mythic+. The more people we close out of mythic+ the worse it will continue to get. Less people will play or even try to get better and ultimately all of Mythic+ will suffer. These changes especially hurt normal players and further erode at the core base of Mythic+ players. High end mythic+ players will continue to just go what's meta and push each season. Why can't they learn from DF seasons we had some amazing seasons like DF S3 did really well. It feels like they throw out any good ideas to make new terrible choices. A healthy Mythic+ is one that is good for all not just balanced around the few.
I honestly can't believe I'm hearing you say this about any tank spec needing nerfs. The current level of what protection paladin is should be the benchmark for every tank spec. Furthermore no tank should be terrified of white hits, that's just sad. I honestly think at this point anyone that's willing to tank or heal should get free game time from blizzard
not a good benchmark with that dps. Also all the tank buster got nerfed and season 2 dungeon pool except for Priory isn't heavy on tank buster to begin with. So yes tank is tankier going into season 2.
Prot Pally was the only tank that really felt OK, it shouldn't have been nerfed instead the other tanks should have been buffed to be where they are at. Maybe it would have solved some of the tanking issues and brought players back. Take Prot Pally away and I'm not even going to bother tanking at all.
guardian needs a spec rework. 3 beserk talents are too much and you dont really have a choice in the tier 3 talents. lunar beam is in a bad position and ursocs fury scaling is fucked.
All of this “balancing” or changes to the tier sets still avoid the main problem… You shouldn’t need to run any kind of external add on to keep track of your procs. Not only are the tier sets extremely lazy but no one likes to play around RNG as a set bonus. These tier sets are extremely sad.
4 months into the season and they announce this as a solution while they're completely and utterly ignoring all the gripes people have been having with the game. When will Blizzard learn that they don't make things fun by nerfing them? Buff the other tanks instead, and that's me speaking as a Guardian Druid.
I was playing an alt prot paladin tank to learn how to tank and maybe play it and help fill groups when there aren't many of them available. That is not going to happen now, so I guess I'll just focus on other alts.
Nerfing Prot Pally Parry seems kinda wrong. Damage Nerfs, sure. With the utility they bring, their Damage should probably be the lowest among the tanks, not the highest, but tanks all need to bring things that are worth having. Lowering damage intake sufficiently should be in there for all of them. About the Brewmaster, seeing that they atleast got a single line is a huge improvement (in context lol). About Brews Stagger, this shouldn't be regarded as a defensive mechanism. It's Brewmasters flavour of Armour and should be balanced as such, with having additional defensives just as every other tank has. Their damage intake is a lot higher than other tanks due to them staggering parts of it. Purifying it away is not really damage reduction, but bringing the intake down to levels of other tanks.
As a brewmaster main... Thank you Blizz for finally remembering us. Also, actually a quite good buff as when running 10's. you send celestial on way too low purified stacks tbh
Idk, correct me if I am wrong but you are still getting clubbered by large pulls (that actually matter) and this just makes you run out of celestial charges faster. Tank busters are the one thing Brew had and has no issues with.
@@luuxii The change just makes it so that so long as you keep a purify brew on cd you should always have max stacks when you hit celestial. Currently in low keys it can be hard to get max stacks making celestial brew even more worthless
@@luuxiiit will most likely make master of harmony new best spec as you get two Celestial brews. This combined with the tier set I reckon it'll be a good boost to surviveability. Time will tell tho.
Champions Bulwark was already nerfed in advance to not increase the rage gained by Shield Charge. And removing the AP scaling from IP and make it purely scale from versatility, why? To devalue str and mastery? So that it makes even less sense to stack mastery for Crit Block Chance and also gain more AP for bigger IP? Big L again for Blizz But kinda nice that "only" 25% crit is needed to get 100% shield slam crit rate during the tier set procc...
I love how they treat wow like an e-sport game buff and nerf every week. Its like i get on just to find out my class get nerf now i will feel good cus blizz "balance" the game.
@@tim9570 i wish they would just give us a proper balance patch every 2 weeks. the current system sucks soo hard for everyone not at the top at the start of the saison.
They really need to get rid of Avenger's shields kick/silence effect. We can dick around and say "Imagine if ALL TANKS had a kick on a rng cooldown ability", but that kind of interaction shouldn't exist in this game and blizzard needs to keep toning down enemy cast requirements/make it so kicks don't go on CD if missed.
Blizzard has so many issues finding tanks for m+ pugs right now. They end up doing changes that nerf tanks or make them harder to play. Ur just going to end up with a dead season again. Same for healing. They should commit to bear and priest being the pug Kings again.
This Blizzard fail mentality. if 1 class out of 5 is success, then instead of buffing the other 4, they nerf the one that works. so they all suck. because this is wow.... no one should have fun.... we all pay monthly fee to blizz to make us suffer. how sad is that.
They should rework the whole Brewmaster kit ! remove stagger and replace with something more simple . make them like guardina druid with some type of fur or like warrior shilde block. maby they can block with wep
The content difficulty is probably nerfed too. It’s easier to nerf pala and level the content based on balanced specs. Prot pala is so far ahead the rest that the content doesn’t feel great for other specs.
More importantly they are not changing mob casting or reverting tank and healer nerfs. Actually... they nerfed the top tanks. So... the season will be hilariously bad. Potential to be worse than season 1.
@@silencedgaming9439 What do you mean they changed the casting? There was no blue post about it. They haven't changed anything. Where are you hearing this? I have heard more ranged and longer casts next season, but even if it's less of an issue next season, it will pop up again in the future.
@@wayne8691 They took out from some of the trash. But it does not change the fact that tanks are extremely fragile at the beggining of pulls and random white swings can kill.
the situation: pala still meta for the amount of kicks, BUT NOW HE SUCK AND DIE rest of the tank suck as fuck like pala but have less kicks the tank situation got worst hahaha
not really since tank busters got nerfed and season 2 dungeons are low on tank damage except for Priory. Thats a buff to all tanks... just not an "interesting buff" so people just ignores it or maybe they don't even know about it.
It's sad that in DF they initially tried to buff classes and adjust the content instead of nerfing it, making it less frustrating for players. Now, they just nerf everything and let us deal with it..
@muttzTV well imo it's not fun mainly because of tank nerfs, healers also being nerfed again and again as well as many other nerfs while making mm+ a harder content
Prot pally has had great utility like this since BFA. And has played largely the same since shadowlands. ( i've pretty much mained prot pally for a few xpacs now, and was able to PUG keystone master a few times in the process, my favorite are the shadowlands rewards :) .... ) Shadowlands they got huge buff because of divine toll. it was so strong and every prot paladin used that for M+ that they added it in as talent for DF. Funny how its now a problem only because its the most played atm and people are starting to see it's strengths (a consequence of bad developement). Truth is its been 'good' this whole time.. It's the fact that the content supposedly right now, they seem to shine from the toolkit. and other tanks supposedly don't feel so good right now. The problem at hand is tank (and healer shortages) due to absolutely terrible development. if only one type of tank or healer is able to push the content they are putting out and players don't have a good time playing other classes for that specialization.. the problem isn't that tank spec , or healer spec specifically, rather the 'content' itself demanding the toolkits. Terrible development....... I'd start quitting the game if I were you guys. I had come back from a little break actually and I'm quite sad to see it has evolved to this from DragonFlight. Won't be renewing my wow game-time. My main playing was done tanking. I played BM/Guardian the least, Prot Pally/ Prot Warrior the most. Veng sometimes. All of them currently feel like shit other than the paladin at this time. Not because of their DPS or healing or mitigation if you know how to use their CD's and alternate them, but because of their toolkit overall and playstyle per the requirements of the 'content'. If everyone was to up and quit the game, not renewing their gametime.. the developers and most certainly the 'higher ups' of the company will certainly see that. and take action to prevent more loss of revenue.
its very confusing why blizzard is so terrified of tanks being too tanky, I would take wiping to an over zealous tank overpulling vs wiping to my tank making a single mistake regarding any single tank buster in the dungeon, because atleast in the first scenario we would have tanks playing the game. I would make the argument that failing a key to a single group wipe was where we really fucked up.
I don't play tank. But if all tanks are too tanky passively, there's little reason to be anything more than a DPS that gets hit. For now, it feel like Blizzard wants to keep the roles as distinct as they can.
@@calvincotton1998 This is exactly why they did this. The healer was outright optional, MDI was full of 1 tank 4 dps teams, and even for regular folks the sustain of tanks was absolutely outrageous. Your entire party could wipe and be forced to slowly walk back to where they died, and the tank would just be sitting there soloing them with his health bar hardly moving.
The results aren't great so far, but this is still a necessary step to add a lot more interactivity and depth to m+. A tank and healer should never have 0 interactivity. It *should* feel different to heal a dk vs a bear vs brewmaster, etc.
@@JD-hc5rv wow 2k io andy refers to +10 MDI keys done by professional players. Hate to break it to you, but these people will do the same regardless of how much blizzard nerfs tanks, and you will never be able to finish a key without a healer regardless of how much they buff tanks
I'm not sure if the MDI is the problem. I think they want to bring the "old tank playstyle" from classic. Where you depends a lot from your healer.
Tank is not fun with the current balance, I'm sorry i know there are people who enjoy tanks but the effort is just not worth the reward and the amount of times you still fail keys because your DPS are boosted and push 600k dps as frost mage in a +10 is too damn high
Me as a dk main: 🥲
Also the entire playerbase agrees that there's a tank shortage and they need help but they also treat tanks like dogshit in-game.
Prot Pally did not need nerfs, the other tanks needed buffs. We have a huge shortage of tanks right now. All of the tanks need to feel powerful.
Totally agree with this. Blizz never thinks about buffing others but demolishing the ones doing good. Just let people have fun.
I would honestly just go ahead and introduce m+ talents like in pvp. So you can give every healer a CR and interrupt, every tank some type of immunity etc and while at it reduce the cd of an interrupt that didnt actually interrupt anything by half. you will piss of a lot of players if you just go ahead and make all the specs work the same, but I just pugged an entire season of m+ and these things would just immensely help pug meta. in the end the tank meta always comes down to DPS output and utlity, not even defensive tank abilities.
Pally only feels powerful because they have 5 defensive cds with a proc cd and high parry. If you go into a pull in a higher key with no defensives and unlucky parries you will die in a few seconds. The base defensive strength right now is pretty terrible for every tank. That is for higher keys usually with players with higher skill. That trickles down to lower keys being an awful experience with many tanks not using every defensive cd perfectly or kicking every cast. The difference in skill and coordination as a group can make a 10 key feel harder than a 14 15 right now.
I think Blizzard either has to reduce the damage of white swings or buff every tanks base defense. No tank finds it enjoyable when you can play almost perfectly but will die from lack of healing, running out of defensives, or a missed stun or kick.
Blizzard never learns. It’s why they are losing players to other games in the current market. PoE2 is eating the D4 player base. Marvel rivals is eating the overwatch player base. Both games as of the last couple of years have done very poorly.
@@madjackgamingandfitness498 I think they can do way better, but that argument of "they are losing players" every single game is losing players, nowdays nothing is perfect, everyone has to cry about something. - I know, blizzard did some dumb shit this season, and prio seasons too, but players have to turn down their hate. Imagine, they are tryingto implement things players wished (housing next xpac, dinars/bulions next patch, doing changes to tune down and up classes) - you cant complain about tanks in next season, while they are mid-balancing the season. Just look at last patchontes, how much they are nerfing, they already nerfed more than the entire season 1 lasted.
Be happy about changes, if i would be a dev, and those players are never happy, ofc i would put less efford in, why would i keep trying my best/involve as much feedback as possible, if 50% of the players are crying anyway.
You can say tanks need buffs, if you havent seen the final state of season 2 - like i hear "oh man, pally so op, so many interrupts" the new dungeon can be fully interrupted by 3 melees. - imagine saying you need prot pally for interrupts
Now all tanks suck and we will get shadowlands season 1 vibes, except no kiting because you cant kite with 900 yard tank busters
time to reroll to aug boys lets go
@@nussanoisbut I want to get invited to keys :(
@@avinion imo the content is generally too easy right now. I agree that it's a bit unfortunate that tanks tend to be the ones being the bottleneck but currently we are in a situation that you can farm the best gear in the game your eyes closed and that's just kinda dumb. Either 10s need to be more difficult or gear gated behind harder content imo
@@teemukarppinen9462Why all the gatekeeping rofl? People want to have fun playing this game. And tbh 10 is hard enough as it is, and I've played the game for 20 years.
The change they implemented with stuns and knockbacks no longer resetting spellcasts this season really hurts a lot of comps and it's not fun to play. Heck 99% of my guild quit playing WoW over a month to go because of reasons like that and zero content.
i mean they nerfing tank busters^^
As a DK player, I certainly hope changes are coming. We had a handful of new visuals. Now only if the class can actually get updated.
BLOOD DK RULES !
Loving my Blood tank, but I haven’t pushed anything too challenging yet. I haven’t played endgame since Warlords, but it sounds like tanks have had a rough go lately…
@@Swarley218 I like BDK. I have been tanking on my DK for years. BDK atm feels like a shell of itself from former xpacs, especially since last expansion. The 1shots blood faces compared to other tanks just doesn't feel fair at times. I could run the same dungeon, but easily push 2 keys higher with my warrior or prot pal.
Blood is still my favorite tank, but dks in general need some love. Build diversity feels bad imo.
I would not hold your breathe on that. People still hate us for what we could do back in wraith
Proper balance is having more powerful classes than majority being weak. More players having fun is always a net positive than the few that are meta mains.
Everyone: no one wants to play healers or tank, buff them please
Blizz: best we can do is nerf
y, themewise and raid the saison looks like it should be a banger, but m+ feels very much like dead on arrival currently. I fcking don´t get why it´s so hard for them to let players have fun.
@@Eulrich Most players just want to big pull multiple groups of trash mobs and aoe them down. Instead of designing their game for that playstyle, Blizzard thinks that's degenerate gameplay and instead wants every second trash group to feel like a mini bossfight...
@@Shapookya i mean i think you need variety, but that should include more than one big fun pull of big dps per dungeon. And lots of not super technical pulls. Right now it´s just all 100% focused or you can die 100-0 on almost any pull and it´s absolutely terrible to play. I really do not understand what they think they´re accomplishing here other than maybe beating shadowlands in lost subscriptions.
lol, pally needed to get the axe lol!
They were DISGUSTINGLY strong lol ..
imo variety should come from a handful of tough but optional mini boss trash mobs that are spread throughout the dungeon that give a lot of percentage and a temporary buff, similar to Shadowlands S1.
Just have optional tough enemies in the dungeon that players can either choose to fight for the big buff that will help them delete a big pack and/or boss afterwards, or they can choose to ignore that tough enemy and do more big pulls instead.
They can even integrate them into the weekly affix rotation and shuffle them around a bit or change the buff that you get from them.
So all tanks suck now? what's the point then? starve out people of tanks and healers on M+ and push them to do delves?
What stupid way to try to win back Tanks and heals, this is the opposite of what we are looking for, they do not listen or care, DPS will be in queue for weeks instead of days
lol brewmaster have been screaming for 2 expansion for fixes.. instead we got a bunch of borrowed power bullshit and we finnly mentioned in TWW patch notes.
@@Spaznaut I'm about to give up on monk, such a neglected class. Extremely fun but ignored on tuning
I dont know whats up with blizzard and "increased dmg and decreased cast timer to make keys more demanding to coordination", 90% of keys are not coordinated pugs, and if theres an actual need to coordinate in a key, the key is dead in 80% of situations, do they want m+ to die?
Judging by the state of things so far, they are pushing people to delves and away from PUG M+. The first 8 weeks of the new season will be meta only accepted into groups.
Mythic+ is built and tuned around having a coordinated group to play with-particularly on the high end. While I'd say it's fair to wager that the majority of keys are not run with premade groups (or even comms), remember that even having all dungeons timed at a +10 puts you in the top 10% of players. Changes that severely impact people playing in the upper strata of keys have next to no tangible impact on lower ones.
That said, their current mentality is not perfect. It sucks being in that middle category of people that want to push but don't have teams to play with consistently, and even having a team, changes like those made to stops vs. kicks make content more tedious than challenging. It'd be nice if they took more time to think this stuff through.
Dunno. Guess we'll just have to wait and see if Blizzard can figure out where they want M+ gameplay to be and what it's supposed to look like. They're clearly not satisfied with the way people have been playing.
Yes, yes they do. That’s the only logical explanation to their nonsense.
I don't understand this sentiment, you don't need any real coordination to do +10 keys. With a +10 it's just dependent on individual skill/knowledge, you can still end up not timing a +10 of course, but it's rarely due to coordination and usually due to someone not actively utilizing their class and spec properly. When you start doing +15 keys and above you do need coordination, you start using discord even when you're pugging because you'd never time one without it. You plan your routes and different cooldowns together. The sentiment that all balance changes are inherently bad unless they are made with lower end players in mind is just weird when you consider that a lot of patch notes are clearly meant for the very top level of keys, and rarely impact any key level under +12 to a significant degree. That's certainly not always the case, but at least usually. So many of these "casts" can go off in a +10, and you'll be fine with some spontaneous player input, healer cooldown or personal defensive. You can essentially "brute-force" the coordination by playing reactively instead of proactively, which a lot of pugs at that level do. It's only when you get to the proper high keys that scaling absolutely demands coordination and proactive planning, because the frequently cast interruptible spells that tickled or itched when they went off in a +10, one shot you on +15 or above. It's like expecting Mythic raiding to be designed with pugging in mind. It's not really meant to be something you can pug or do with no coordination. The skill ceiling is made FROM the coordination required. But because Mythic+ is viewed as this one huge category, people don't understand when it impacts them or not. When raiding is scaled, it says "heroic", or "mythic", so it's very easy for blizzard to clearly communicate what level of gameplay these changes affect. Mythic+ doesn't have that clearly "defined" separation in difficulty as it's based on scaling, so lower keys will always be affected at least to a tiny degree by balance changes meant for the top level. But people need to understand that the changes are rarely bad at the key level most players aspire to.
The huge problem you see that's strongly defined in higher keys is the viability of each tank, healing and damage class/spec. The differences in utility and kit are mind boggling at times. That's the true issue in my head. You have 99th percentile players left in the dirt when compared to 80th percentile players just because of the class and/or spec they play. Don't get me wrong though, Blizzard has of course had some truly awful changes that have impacted even the lower keys over the years, but usually they are made with scaling in mind. The class and spec tuning however, seems to at times be hostile to certain classes and specs with regards to M+. I suspect that's because most tuning is done based on raiding metrics, but I'll never know for sure.
3:33 This feels kinda bad. Like you said, if you're playing correctly, your abilities line up in time with the mechanics. This is what makes playing a class well, feel good.
Season 2 looks fucked
Every season 2 since BFA has been fucked. This is the norm for Blizz and if players want a fun game come back in S3 when they listen to community feedback
@@_Augie Sad, but it is becoming a habit.
How was SL M+ Season 2?
Hard disagree with "well deserved nerfs"! Why are we nerfing the only tank that feels good, in a time where there is already a massive tank shortage, instead of just buffing the other tanks? Making tanking feel even worse is not the route to take, and making the only tank that doesnt feel as bad worse just because the others suck is even less so the route to take
It is a well deserved nerf when in some packs you out dps actual dps and ignite is top dmg. You still have multiple silences, immune, sac, wog, it's only fair that you aren't as tanky. Buffing all tanks to do massive dps isn't the answer
WoG has really lost a huge amount of it’s old effectiveness. If you WoG spam to save a group you’re oom quick snd need more mana breaks than the healer. On the dps side it wasn’t that uncommon for DH and warrior to share those aoe meter spots.
@@madjackgamingandfitness498 I main a prot warrior and me prot pala with 10 less ilvl would out dps my warrior. So that's totally untrue. Just being able to wog or spellwarding to save someone is an option most other tanks don't even have. A warrior intercept shield is 500k hp for example, where as my wog crits for 4 mil. The utility is incomparable, you add the extra dps on top and it's way too strong.
Your on pure copium if you believe prot pala don't deserve nerfs, try playing brewmaster and you will understand the gap between both specs.
It’s ok they want us to play a class and spec that’s bug called vdh , cos blizz doesn’t know how to fix it till 11.1.5 patch so we would need to reroll again
Blizzards balancing team is the biggest shit in history
Balance in general is. I don't think a single game has ever benefited from hyper-balancing anything.
Their whole philosophy is terrible, Instead of buffing other specs up to the lvls of prot paladin they just nerf shit left and right..
I've seen Jak healing and it looks even more hectic than Season 1 😅
Brewmaster: -exists-
Blizzard: "Oh...right...um...yeah, that's a thing. Whoops..."
"if it was really important you would have remembered it"
Pretty funny that you can search “brewmaster” in the notes and not once is the word used 😂
Prot Pally damage profile actually feels great. It feels so much nicer to actually put out nummers as a tank. Instead of pally doing less, the rest should be doing more.
Blizzard is always dead set on nerfing fun stuff instead sadly. I don't get how they can be so tone deaf all the time. They have people complaining up the wazoo about their 'fixes' and they just keep their head in the sand.
@@lillgs delusional cope
As a Prot Right now you are pretty much a 4th dps. That is NOT how tanks should be. Doing 1.5M overall is way too much. Other tanks are doing fine dmg, pala just do too much. Defensive nerf is weird tho
Yeah, tanks aren't supposed to be doing that much damage honestly. Main tanked saying that too. It's just not the way.
Roles should be clearly defined and nothing about tank damage should make a difference.
But then the dps whine.
Not sure why blizz is so dense... tanks are in a bad spot because of the nerf they handed them at the start of TWW... want to fix the tanks? REVERT THE FUCKING NERF. But seriously, tanks need help not more nerfs. Don't nerf the one tank thats holding it's own right now, buff the others to match it. Their thinking is always so backwards.
Season 4 felt 1000 times better then season 1 WWI
Season 3 and 4 of SL felt better than DF season 1, Last season of Legion felt better than Season 1 of BFA, Season 4 BFA was goated vs SL Season 1. - its always like this
Ofc it feels better, chars scale, more gear, more stats, more fun in gameplay, some chars getting reworks, ppl learn the dungeons and so on
@@pettron3506 S3/4 was shit if you weren't playing VDH. Prepatch S4 was best of the xpac because other tanks could get into groups easily with double sigils gone. That said yes it was still worlds better than TWW S1, this has been my least enjoyed season in M+ history.
@@onkek As i said, to the end of an xpac its always better. comparing s1 vs s4 of something is just bad - its like saying "first class vs 10th class oh man, how good it was" - time changes, and the beginning of an xpac was always horrible for tanks, no one knows dungeon,s nothing gets stopped in pugs, weak ilvl, weak scalling, most likely bad trinkets and so on. people are just to frustrated is crazy
s4 was dogwater. s1 dragonflight was objectively the most balanced season and most enjoyable, if you have 2 working hands.
Tww1 was shit and s4 was fun. Two s2 gonna suck as well. I hope you all brought your realistic expectations
Everyone: hey blizz you made tanking and healing suck, can you do something about it
Blizzard: don't worry we got you. You know that singular class that is able to hit the hardest content?
Everyone: Yeah
Blizzard: Instead of buffing all tanks to that level we are going to nerf that one to. GLHF everyone.
Everyone: 😞💩
Blizzard just tried reworking BDK at the start of the season and then gave up.
They should revert the deathstrike changes until they figure out were to go with them
BUFF BLOOD ! SAY IT LOUD !
This does nothing for Brewmaster. A max stack Celestial Brew was still only a 2 million absorb at the absolute max (more like 1.6 mil on average) on my monk ilvl 627. Healthpool is absolutely tiny in comparison to BDK, Vengeance and Guardian, but still i got 8 mil hp roughly and 1.6 mil shield is a tiny 20% absorb on a FULL STACK shield, its gone in a single regular melee swing from trash mobs. Brewmaster is still garbage. And the biggest issue is the Keg smash radius being so tiny it hits half a trashpack, its hard to keep aggro with all these giga blaster DPS specs like enhancement for example. It needs more than this, way more.
I think that was the biggest thing I hated about brewmaster, even with 10 stacks of purified chi the celestial brew shield is a fucking joke and evaporates in less than a second. The only time it actually feels good is if you clear stagger in red all the time and for most content you aren't in red stagger super often. It just feels bad. Bring back keg of the heavens.
A full stack CB on PTR is about 4m. Thats a pretty strong heal every 30s.
well according to one of the top BrM player in season1, season 2 is a good patch for BrM. Tank damage is low and BrM can focus on damage instead.
@@CL-jq1xs I think it will be good as well. Equinox said the tier shores up brew's weaknesses.
“Prot pally meta” really only applies to such a small percentage of players. Adequately geared tanks should be juggernauts in weekly keys. Healing should be easier. They are killing the game to cater to the smallest percentage of players. Who cares if broken tanks lets the top .1% do degenerate things, let the vast majority of players enjoy playing the game.
I guess brew got something, but i was really hoping for more
It's a tiny buff. We got jebaited.
CB was actually something I wanted buffed, but this is not enough. Lowest health pool + almost no stagger on magic damage means those chain caster packs that no longer interrupt on hard cc hit us the hardest. Aggro is still a problem, utility is low, we're not good at gathering packs... We almost nothing that another tank can't do better in m+, I would say all the other classes you could make an argument for one aspect that they excel in.
Yeah the CB absorb is small
These nerfs won't matter to anyone not doing above 12s, and prot is still the only tank with multiple and chain interrupts in a season where stops and stuns still don't prevent casts.
Prot pally or prot warrior? Non tank here.
Think he means prot pal. Mine gets around 80% of overall interrupts. And then there’s WoG, LoH, sac etc.
Shit is broken af. Don’t know if the nerfs are enough.
Only solution which I see is to again make stops to interrupt casting or reduce casters in dungs (which didnt happen from what I see)
it matters bad prot players need to sweat now a lot more :) every nerf or buff matters
@@frytas93 I can't express enough the importance of reducing casters in dungeons. They SAID they were going to lessen trash pull tank busters, make important casts longer, and reduce smaller casts in general... Now to see if they follow through.
Him agreeing on Pally nerfs instead of buffing the others in the current state of the game is everything i need to know.
I will not consider your opinion in the future buddy..
Agreed. The ironic part is he puts out a video explaining the problems with m+ and then supports this. Blizzard is doing a good job driving people away.
because he knows what he is talking about more than people who cry of buff to a class and can't see how the role itself is getting buffed.
1. they nerfed tank busters = general increase in survivability for all tanks
2. season 2 dungeon pool is low on tank damage with exception to Priory = general increase in survivability for all tanks
3. they nerfed prot pala = all other tanks are no longer overshadowed by prot pala
@@CL-jq1xs there are two possible aproaches to get a fair Balancing for tanks after s1, buff "unfun" Tanks or make the "most fun" one slightly less fun.
(Fun istn always Equal to "OP" but in this case it is for me and maybe the 88% Prot Palas right now..)
So its not a "Right" or "Wrong" in terms of balancing: both works, its a "Right" or "Wrong" in Terms of bringing the PLAYERS BACK after the all time low we currently have.
Points:
1-2: Some good changes i agree, still not convinced (for now) its enough or 2. will be well realised..
3. for Example: Do you think an Monk Tank sees the only Tank /class changes being some Prot nerves makes him say "Great, lets try Monk again" or would he rather say that after seing some Monk buffs?
Prot Warrior about to be BFA season 1 type of bad. Shield Charge doesnt mean shit when you face down in the dirt because you only get to hit IP once every 10 secs.
Two issues with prot warrior. 1) Ignore pain being godly or even better does not make up for warrior having the least amount of utility out of all tanks. 2) Having a godly tier set (ie borrowed power) means that the positive sentiment is built on a house of cards. All it takes is one weak tier set for all to come tumbling down. I'd rather see baseline changes.
You don’t have the least amount of utility because there is bdk but it’s not that good yes. Especially if you play caster comps
@RealCecilion if we don't count multiple spells that can displace mobs, ams cheese, and brez, then yes , sure bdk.
@@JBX5677JB Well warri spellreflect, shout, hp shouts, multiply stuns, a warrior has a clearly the least amount of utility....
least amount of utility goes to brew not warrior. Generally, people who think prot have the lowest utility is due to not knowing how to spell reflect and intervene. Both require knowledge of dungeon specific abilities.
@@CL-jq1xs Spell reflect is not utility, it is a defensive that has offensive capabilities if the spell is reflectable. Very few mechanics can cheese with spell reflect. Intervene was never taken until the new hero talent due to it being very low use case on a very competitive talent tree.
Intervene with storm shield is only useful in 8-10's, which I bet is where you are hardstuck.
And no, Brew has a poison/disease dispel, mob displacement, skips enabled via para/RoP, an out-of-combat resurrect, and a soothe. I put Brew probably second lowest, but there is still a sizable gap between lowest and second lowest.
Very low IO take, but I guess that is to be expected here.
Enjoy the long que times DPS! As a tank/healer player.. I will be playing other games... that are actually fun.
Heck even tanks get long queues nowadays, if not a protpal
Buffs are fun, nerfs are never fun
I've seen this song and dance before. I give it 3-4 weeks into 11.1 before they flip these around, warrior to the viable pile, prot paladins to the 'they're fine, all tanks are fine, they don't need nerfing, sure they do top dps and have unparalleled utility' pile.
Sure nerf tanks more… Zoom out. All of the talks regarding m+ problems reduce to Massive Tank/healer shortage and very low participation and clear rates above +10… This is a total brain dead change and shows the armchair perspective that Content Creators and blizz where they balance in a unrealistic vacuum. Any thoughts on how class nerfs in anyway will increase the participation, clear rates, and satisfaction in anyway?
nah they balancing in a way that someone who only look at class buff/nerf wouldn't understand.
1. they nerfed tank busters = general increase in survivability for all tanks
2. season 2 dungeon pool is low on tank damage with exception to Priory = general increase in survivability for all tanks
3. they nerfed prot pala = all other tanks are no longer overshadowed by prot pala
but people eyes only focuses on point 3.... because they don't understand
I've tanked only on prot pala, and by no means I'm a good tank, but beyond a +10 it felt horrible. I will most likely not tank in Season 2 with those white swings. If prot already felt that bad, I can't imagine how bad the rest feels. Buff the others instead of making prot feel worse. I'll just stick with DPS because I have no issues doing +13~14 keys.
Prot warrior needs way more buffs to be playable quazi they overnerfed our rage regen a spec who usually played fast and spammed more and they made us way more slow apm it feels bad. Also rage regen nerf means our dps already was low now even lower
why are we still nerfing tanks when this is a massive issue
master of harmony brew might pop off now but...
celestial brew is TERRIBLE to begin with.
master of harmony is already the choice going into season 2 due to the tier set
shorter time to get max celestial at 10% more absorb is a plus. Even if unbuffed, we'll have it more often.
Yeah the shield isn't big to begin with, even at max stacks.
Every time I read a post about class changes, it reinforces my suspicion that the people working on the game don't actually play the game.
Do you have the Masterclasses for the upcoming M+ Dungeons already planned ? :)
As usual 👍 they will be ready in time for the season - thanks for your support
Absolutely the wrong approach by blizzard, should buff the others to be in line with prot, not destroy any chance of finding a single tank for s2
tanks should do same damage as dps
Nah I'd settle for better threat generation, especially on pull
@@Aggrofool its the same thing. more dmg is more threat. noob
blizzards infamous stance of always nerfing the good instead of buffing the bad is a big reason why people quit
Brewmaster down bad forever by the looks
Brewmaster isn't "downbad," it's in a healthy spot, neither completely shit nor OP. It's the 2nd most played raid tank on Queen Ansurek Mythic, the two highest non-Pally tanks in M+ are Brewmasters from China. You could change Brewmaster all you want, it probably still wouldn't be more desirable than Protection Paladin as long as you didn't completely overbuff it into the stratosphere.
This is not true at all. Brew feels good. And the purified chi changes are a good buff. It's a complex spec.. if you play it bad, then prepare to be punished.
if top BrM player say they are good going into season 2 i would believe that over a low io player. Season 2 dungeons aren't high on high tank damage so BrM can focus on damage. Not to mention the tank buster nerfs. They still won't be meta but probably middle of the pack.... but maybe that is your idea of bad. Now that prot pala is nerfed, not all tanks are bad compared to prot pala.
@@GCDChronicles Using those 2 China brews is misleading. That's just like Yoda taking pre-rework ProtPal to top 5 back when the spec was still weak.
@@CL-jq1xs @guypoulin6929 It doesn't feel good in PTR. Heck even Dorki said it doesn't feel good in PTR.
the problem wasnt prot paladin, the problem was everybody talking about prot paladin being good in 16s+ when thats like what 1% of the playerbase doing those keys? Its not EVERYTHING its not even close and wasnt close. Ive seen EVERY tank under the sun tank anywhere from 10-14s. and even 10-14s is also a small % of the playerbase.. the problem was everybody thinking that the only thing that matters was a +16.
I wouldn't go as far as to say that. M+ tanking has felt rough since 10-12s around the first couple of months. Warrior was the same old story since BFA. Very tanky, very lacking in group utility. Prot paladin was strong yes, but squishy and dead without a CD for every kind of tank buster, but much better group utility. Nerfing prot paladin over and over again is not the solution, and seeing blizzard just focus that as their solution is actually what made me quit, because as I See here, no reason to come back. Blizzard doesn't want to change philosophy, just nerf nerf nerf. Designing meaningfully is too much work for them. ANd seeing those warrior nerfs weeks ago made me facepalm.
The problem with pal prot, it's a tank designed to be a support tank with nice tools to help group however his damages is still the best among all tanks.
IF he is tank support , he can't be the best in damages, Kit has to be balanced.
Again another failure by blizz. Tanks only needed buffs to equalize them a bit more. The tank busters and interuptable abilities needed to be reduced. Better healer heals output. Another step back with the best intentions
the tanks buster were already reduced, and season 2 dungeon pool is not tank damage heavy to begin with except for Priory. So tanks are not only going to tankier in season 2 they will also not get overshawed by prot pala due to the nerf to it.
@CL-jq1xs good. I haven't tested any beta. I've been checked out and not online for over a month. Nice to hear
The problem with these continued tank nerfs is that the middle 50% of the playerbase, in terms of skill, likely aren't leveraging the power of these talents anyway so their survivability will continue to be mediocre without much notice. In that sense it's not Prot Paladin that's being nerfed, but only the "good" Prot Paladins who are nerfed. Doesn't sound good for PUGs.
You are not in sync with your audience.. read your comments quazii.. everyone thinks what you're saying here is horses***... You really hit the mark with this upload.. I'd consider taking it down, take the l and try again
See you in one month with another "Blizzard, we need to talk" video because there will be no more tanks/healers left in S2 for Quazii to make content.
But hey, prot pallys were nerfed 'righfuly so'. This is Helldivers 2 all over again I swear.
At this point I'm wondering, are the devs completely incompetent, high on their own farts or are they imposters from some other mmo actively trying to make everything they touch worse.
Yep, they definitely need to scale Stagger differently in raids and dungeons. I believe it had something to do with something called "K value". Read about it on wowhead somewhere.
The fact that they ¨fixed¨ Vengeance DH is so sad... That shit was the most fun I have had in years in this game! Besides I didn't really view it as a bug since it would proc Meta and not just Demon Form, so the interactions was right to begin with.
why nerf prot pala just buff others tanks! playing tank already feel bad and now they nerf the cool one basic blizzard move. f*ck that i am not going to tank keys anymore i have enough stress in my life and wont be adding to it by dying in a 4-5 mob pull if i miss a GCD.
cries in blood dk
BUFF BLOOD !
@@LoyedLion i can only dream brother
I totally understand the nerfs to prot paladin, its wat ahead of anything else right now. But i loved prot paladin for its insane damage, and its cdr on almost its entire toolkit. Having so much cdr feels really rewarding for doing your rotation correctly
Instead of buffing other tanks they are screwing around nerfing a decent tank in m+ screw blizz their dev are dumb.
They would have been better off buffing other tanks than to nerf prot....
Blizzard just keeps digging and not understanding. I honestly feel that one of the head people is responsible for the end of S3 nerfs and is just unable to admit their own mistake. They literally need to completely unwind the "tank changes" from the end of s3
great, i can't wait to play prot warrior and (checks notes) be designed around a tier set that 1. sounds clunky af and 2. will be gone after this season.
what a joke
Picking a main is pointless even as the Season starts. Bear was meta at S1 start, then Warrior overtook it, then DH's started looking alright, then Prot Paladin came in and plowed over them all. This all happened within Season 1. Pick what you find fun to play + like the playstyle. At some point your class will be good in a season with tuning (Unless you're a Brewmaster, then you're fucked)
So, now we're in the 2-tank meta... what could possibly go wrong?
Why isn't Guardian getting a 500% damage buff?
Its crazy to me that they see Mythic+ is dying and instead having a lighter touch on difficulty they double down on it and nerf tanks more. All of these changes are just going to make it more miserable for the average player who just wants to enjoy casual mythic+. The more people we close out of mythic+ the worse it will continue to get. Less people will play or even try to get better and ultimately all of Mythic+ will suffer. These changes especially hurt normal players and further erode at the core base of Mythic+ players. High end mythic+ players will continue to just go what's meta and push each season. Why can't they learn from DF seasons we had some amazing seasons like DF S3 did really well. It feels like they throw out any good ideas to make new terrible choices. A healthy Mythic+ is one that is good for all not just balanced around the few.
As a former Prot Pally myself their nerf obsession is why I don’t tank anymore. Blizz can go suck eggs and tanks should go on strike.
I honestly can't believe I'm hearing you say this about any tank spec needing nerfs. The current level of what protection paladin is should be the benchmark for every tank spec. Furthermore no tank should be terrified of white hits, that's just sad. I honestly think at this point anyone that's willing to tank or heal should get free game time from blizzard
People complained about long q times for groups in S1. S2 is going to be far far worse. Good job blizzard making people not want to play your game.
not a good benchmark with that dps. Also all the tank buster got nerfed and season 2 dungeon pool except for Priory isn't heavy on tank buster to begin with. So yes tank is tankier going into season 2.
Prot Pally was the only tank that really felt OK, it shouldn't have been nerfed instead the other tanks should have been buffed to be where they are at. Maybe it would have solved some of the tanking issues and brought players back. Take Prot Pally away and I'm not even going to bother tanking at all.
They really should have buffed the other tanks, cool now they all blow…
guardian needs a spec rework. 3 beserk talents are too much and you dont really have a choice in the tier 3 talents. lunar beam is in a bad position and ursocs fury scaling is fucked.
Guardian is literally getting a spec rework. Easily the most changes out of any tank.
@@TheSoulGambit still usless talents all over the place and 3 berserk talents :) the rework is only regen and some minor magic
All of this “balancing” or changes to the tier sets still avoid the main problem…
You shouldn’t need to run any kind of external add on to keep track of your procs. Not only are the tier sets extremely lazy but no one likes to play around RNG as a set bonus.
These tier sets are extremely sad.
Indeed.
Why beef anyone? Just buff the other tanks before there are no tanks left
Micro buff to brewmasters , oh yeah im so excited
You're trolling if you don't bring a Sin Rogue also. They have about five million kicks, especially if they spec into double vanish.
Simp company making tanks as weaklings but long as they don't remove tanks
4 months into the season and they announce this as a solution while they're completely and utterly ignoring all the gripes people have been having with the game.
When will Blizzard learn that they don't make things fun by nerfing them?
Buff the other tanks instead, and that's me speaking as a Guardian Druid.
It's simple really. People keep playing the game regardless. Ya'll need to quit / go on strike is what you need to do.
Could someone link the original Post pls?
I was playing an alt prot paladin tank to learn how to tank and maybe play it and help fill groups when there aren't many of them available. That is not going to happen now, so I guess I'll just focus on other alts.
Nerfing Prot Pally Parry seems kinda wrong. Damage Nerfs, sure. With the utility they bring, their Damage should probably be the lowest among the tanks, not the highest, but tanks all need to bring things that are worth having. Lowering damage intake sufficiently should be in there for all of them.
About the Brewmaster, seeing that they atleast got a single line is a huge improvement (in context lol).
About Brews Stagger, this shouldn't be regarded as a defensive mechanism. It's Brewmasters flavour of Armour and should be balanced as such, with having additional defensives just as every other tank has. Their damage intake is a lot higher than other tanks due to them staggering parts of it. Purifying it away is not really damage reduction, but bringing the intake down to levels of other tanks.
As a brewmaster main... Thank you Blizz for finally remembering us. Also, actually a quite good buff as when running 10's. you send celestial on way too low purified stacks tbh
Idk, correct me if I am wrong but you are still getting clubbered by large pulls (that actually matter) and this just makes you run out of celestial charges faster.
Tank busters are the one thing Brew had and has no issues with.
@@luuxii The change just makes it so that so long as you keep a purify brew on cd you should always have max stacks when you hit celestial.
Currently in low keys it can be hard to get max stacks making celestial brew even more worthless
@flyergorl for low keys sure, it is a QoL, but then again, in low keys it is pretty whatever as you survive with or without a 10 stack celestial.
@@luuxiiit will most likely make master of harmony new best spec as you get two Celestial brews.
This combined with the tier set I reckon it'll be a good boost to surviveability. Time will tell tho.
Champions Bulwark was already nerfed in advance to not increase the rage gained by Shield Charge.
And removing the AP scaling from IP and make it purely scale from versatility, why?
To devalue str and mastery?
So that it makes even less sense to stack mastery for Crit Block Chance and also gain more AP for bigger IP?
Big L again for Blizz
But kinda nice that "only" 25% crit is needed to get 100% shield slam crit rate during the tier set procc...
Everything should be buffed, none should be nerfs.
I love how they treat wow like an e-sport game buff and nerf every week.
Its like i get on just to find out my class get nerf now i will feel good cus blizz "balance" the game.
Nah, paladin is kinda dumb and should be nerfed. I don't think everything needs to be put into that same broken state
@@tim9570 i wish they would just give us a proper balance patch every 2 weeks. the current system sucks soo hard for everyone not at the top at the start of the saison.
@Eulrich they can't cus they need on hands on race to world first make sure they go smoothly.
Do you believe that Brewmaster needs a complete rework as a whole and not just stagger?
Looks like im still not coming back for season 2 oh well
They really need to get rid of Avenger's shields kick/silence effect. We can dick around and say "Imagine if ALL TANKS had a kick on a rng cooldown ability", but that kind of interaction shouldn't exist in this game and blizzard needs to keep toning down enemy cast requirements/make it so kicks don't go on CD if missed.
kicks not going on cd if missed would be the single most op ability in wow history lmao. not even remotely realistic
@ meanwhile divine toll exists, move along.
@@onkek move along 🤓
@@BonelessSalmons clown
Blizzard has so many issues finding tanks for m+ pugs right now. They end up doing changes that nerf tanks or make them harder to play. Ur just going to end up with a dead season again. Same for healing. They should commit to bear and priest being the pug Kings again.
This Blizzard fail mentality. if 1 class out of 5 is success, then instead of buffing the other 4, they nerf the one that works. so they all suck. because this is wow.... no one should have fun.... we all pay monthly fee to blizz to make us suffer. how sad is that.
They should rework the whole Brewmaster kit ! remove stagger and replace with something more simple . make them like guardina druid with some type of fur or like warrior shilde block. maby they can block with wep
Nerfs and more nerfs it’s all I heard , that’s an interesting way to bring players back to a such a cool role
Veng was in meta in season 2 as well, after they got tier set.
Oh look at this single tank spec that's playable, should we buff the other ones? NOPE! Make them all bad
The content difficulty is probably nerfed too. It’s easier to nerf pala and level the content based on balanced specs. Prot pala is so far ahead the rest that the content doesn’t feel great for other specs.
More importantly they are not changing mob casting or reverting tank and healer nerfs. Actually... they nerfed the top tanks. So... the season will be hilariously bad. Potential to be worse than season 1.
They changed the mob casting lol
Didnt they completly removed the tank bursters for some mobs ?
@@wayne8691 Does it matter when white swings truck you?
@@silencedgaming9439 What do you mean they changed the casting? There was no blue post about it. They haven't changed anything. Where are you hearing this?
I have heard more ranged and longer casts next season, but even if it's less of an issue next season, it will pop up again in the future.
@@wayne8691 They took out from some of the trash. But it does not change the fact that tanks are extremely fragile at the beggining of pulls and random white swings can kill.
"Brewmasters have feelings too" lulz
the situation: pala still meta for the amount of kicks, BUT NOW HE SUCK AND DIE
rest of the tank suck as fuck like pala but have less kicks
the tank situation got worst hahaha
not really since tank busters got nerfed and season 2 dungeons are low on tank damage except for Priory. Thats a buff to all tanks... just not an "interesting buff" so people just ignores it or maybe they don't even know about it.
Is it just me or does your mic have some kind of buzzy echo to it
Why not just buff the underperforming tanks… we need more tanks
They did…
they nerfed tank buster. Thats a buff to tanks. Also they nerfed prot pala.... which is the best buff to other tanks.
It's sad that in DF they initially tried to buff classes and adjust the content instead of nerfing it, making it less frustrating for players.
Now, they just nerf everything and let us deal with it..
DF was fun, this is not.
@muttzTV well imo it's not fun mainly because of tank nerfs, healers also being nerfed again and again as well as many other nerfs while making mm+ a harder content
@@wayne8691 The stun change is also bad, even worse with all the casts this season had.
I want to switch to Prot Warrior from Prot Pally, but I still feel like the kicks and other utility is too valuable for Pally to make the switch.
And 20-30% more damage lol
They like where DKs are at. I doubt we will be seeing much if any changes to them.
I decided my main based on the transmog cause season 2 mogs are kind of slapping
Prot pally has had great utility like this since BFA. And has played largely the same since shadowlands.
( i've pretty much mained prot pally for a few xpacs now, and was able to PUG keystone master a few times in the process, my favorite are the shadowlands rewards :) .... )
Shadowlands they got huge buff because of divine toll. it was so strong and every prot paladin used that for M+ that they added it in as talent for DF.
Funny how its now a problem only because its the most played atm and people are starting to see it's strengths (a consequence of bad developement).
Truth is its been 'good' this whole time..
It's the fact that the content supposedly right now, they seem to shine from the toolkit.
and other tanks supposedly don't feel so good right now.
The problem at hand is tank (and healer shortages) due to absolutely terrible development.
if only one type of tank or healer is able to push the content they are putting out and players don't have a good time playing other classes for that specialization.. the problem isn't that tank spec , or healer spec specifically, rather the 'content' itself demanding the toolkits.
Terrible development.......
I'd start quitting the game if I were you guys.
I had come back from a little break actually and I'm quite sad to see it has evolved to this from DragonFlight.
Won't be renewing my wow game-time. My main playing was done tanking.
I played BM/Guardian the least, Prot Pally/ Prot Warrior the most. Veng sometimes.
All of them currently feel like shit other than the paladin at this time. Not because of their DPS or healing or mitigation if you know how to use their CD's and alternate them, but because of their toolkit overall and playstyle per the requirements of the 'content'.
If everyone was to up and quit the game, not renewing their gametime.. the developers and most certainly the 'higher ups' of the company will certainly see that. and take action to prevent more loss of revenue.