Thanks Myles and Sam for this! ❤ I never realized that the war in heaven was after the acension. Based on my Adventist teaching, i just thought it was from rhe beginning of time. I keep getting rid of layers and layers of false Adventist teachings from my mind but there are just so much sigh. May the Lord pluck His children from that organization and plant them firmly in the biblical gospel.
WOW!! What a powerful discussion! A lot of meat was brought to the table and I know I will be listening to this many, many, times and taking notes. Both Myles & Sam are not only passionate for God's truth, but powerhouses of knowledge regarding history & theology and we are sooooo blessed that the Lord is using them to help educate the body of Christ. May God bless you and yours, your ministries & all who work behind the scenes (thank God for them!) and keep all of you safe, strong, and preserve your faithful hearts always. ❤️🙏🙏🙏🕊️
Such a crucial, life-changing conversation, way above the importance of the suffering people and millions being affected by wars. It's so good to have something to run away to.
Anyone else notice that whenever Doug Batchelor “reads from” his Bible. He is always in the very front.. regardless of whether referencing Genesis or Revelation, or any books between. I cannot help thinking that if he read from scripture vs notes. He might be convicted to be more honest. I find reading from my Bible to be much more inspirational & convicting.. over reading my own notes from the scripture. Just a thought.. God bless you Myles (and Sam) for another great session. 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
This is a great point. This has been his style for decades. He’s the proof text Gatling Gun of Adventism. But as we saw-there is great danger in handling the sacred scriptures that way.
@@kindnesslove1732 And why dont you go ahead and refute him with some of the facts that you have? At this point we all know opinions dont count and yours are an emty tin with marbles, only making a noise.
What an odd accusation. Doug is somehow dishonest because he chooses to collate the unedited scripture that he will be using for his sermons, into one place?! Is that what you’re suggesting?
Loved this session! Looking forward to rewatching. Thanks so much Myles and Sam. May God Bless your ministry also Myles for the glory of our Triune God. Pax Christ ✝️
Wow 😯 this is such a brilliant study - it makes so much sense - Salvation accomplished - of course that’s when Satan was cast out - he could accuse the brethren no longer 😮 it is so clear thank you 🙏🏻
I feel the same. It's like the scales fell off. I am mind blown! This is another indication that the atonement is complete, done, finished....there is no second phase.
A point not underscored enough by those of us responding to SDAs is that Ellen White herself claimed there were many “archangels” (plural) throughout her writings and even went so far as to call Satan himself an “archangel”.
The title "Michael the Archangel" is not a created arch angel. Michael means who is like God, which can only be Jesus. The angels are not like God, they are created and serve God.
@@alllthatinacan Wrong. Archangel is a created Angel, it cannot be Jesus because Michael rebukes Satan in the name of the Lord because Michael is not the Lord. Jesus is the Lord.
@@alllthatinacan “This man of faith beholds the ladder presented in Jacob’s vision,-the ladder which rested upon the earth and reached to the highest heavens, and upon which angels of God were ascending and descending. He knows that this ladder represents Christ, who has connected earth with Heaven, and finite man with the infinite God. He hears angels and archangels magnifying that glorious name.” {LP 332.2} “And the angelic host, angels and archangels, covering cherub and glorious seraph, echo back the refrain of that joyous, triumphant song…” {HP 371.4}
Love your podcast! Was fooled by SDA in thinking they were Born Again Christians. Years ago read Kingdom of the Cults and just thought they were a bit confused about keeping the Sabbath and diet issues. Now my eyes are opened. I live near Loma Linda and come across many....will have to study up more and listen to more of your podcasts so that I can witness to them!! Thank you!!
I was adventist for awhile also. Somebody I knew who worked at an adventist hospital used to file a procedure for purposes of billing many times. On one occasion she asked what this procedure was that she filed many times. She was told an abortion. I looked into this and not only found it to be true, but adventists were the second largest providers of abortions in california. This is not just another christian denomination. th-cam.com/video/P_lGDBMml28/w-d-xo.htmlsi=DAVGjrzHp6obC3MC ...and also... th-cam.com/video/ndP0FoTOK74/w-d-xo.htmlsi=YzPvKTS-Bro55feg
@@benjaminparadise6397Adventists keep all the commandments including thou shalt not murder. That means no abortions. I know you think God's law was done away with but, you bearing false witness is annoying.
@@andrewthomas8536 I was a coordinator for adventurers for two years. It was an adventist who worked at an adventist hospital who told me this. It was after this that I found the article the Washington Post did on this fact. What is the "bearing false testimony"?
Thank you Myles and Sam for the clear explanation of what the official sda stand on this subject. I’m in agreement with you both, I’m not interested in an individual’s explanation but the official stance. Y’all nailed it.
Shamounian feels the same way I do upon hearing SDA theology: "It's torturing me." 😨 It's just SO hard to conceive that people are really being taught this dreck in all 3-piece-suit seriousness 🤯
Jesus is Michael the Archangel. It is simply another title He holds (I AM, Lamb of God, the Good Shepherd, the Bread of Life, the Living Water, the Messiah, the Redeemer, the Prince of Peace, the Lion of Judah, the Mediator, the Judge, etc.) He is God, not a created angel. He is head of the heavenly host. The angels worship Him and do His bidding. It's fine if you don't believe this, but honestly, why make this such a hot button issue when Seventh Day Adventists have so many doctrinal videos on this issue to explain the scriptures they use to support this title.
“Why make this such a hot button issue…” Why comment when you clearly didn’t watch? You guys always give yourself away with these types of comments. It helps if you actually watch the videos you comment on.
Think about it like this, the titles of Jesus are positions of the office he holds (for lack of better words). They are descriptors of his attributes. Micheal the Archangel is not a position, nor an attribute. Michael is a spiritual creature, an archangel, with a name. To say the Jesus is Michael the Archangel, is to say that he is a creature, and not divine. It's not a title for Jesus. Michael is is own person.
@@StringofPearls55 However, SDA do believe it's a title for Jesus who is devine and don't believe Michael is a created creature. We have defined what we mean, and yet people say we worship satan which is absurd. Read Exodus 3. The "Angel of the Lord" appeared to Moses in the burning bush in verse 2. Then in verse 6, this "Angel of the Lord" calls himself God. It is apparent that in this case the title "Angel of the Lord" is not a created angel for the divine God of the Universe. In many instances in scripture, Angel simply means messenger. So this Angel of the Lord was bringing Moses a message to relay to Pharaoh...Let My People Go.
I agree that SDAs believe this. I was just pointing out a simple contradiction to that belief~ I watched the video and listened to the speakers give their case as to why they think Micheal the Archangel is a title and want you to think it as well, but their evidence isn't at all compelling nor convincing. Scripture never contradicts itself. God bless.
The Son Is Greater Than the Angels Hebrews 1:5 For God never said to any angel what he said to Jesus: “You are my Son. Today I have become your Father.” God also said, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son.” 6 And when he brought his supreme Son into the world, God said, “Let all of God’s angels worship him.”
If you read the book of Jude in context it is clear the author made a distinction between Jesus and Michael as the Name Jesus and Christ are used multiple times when referring to Jesus as Lord and Master. Also in context the author is comparing the fallen angels who rebelled and the rebellious people in contrast to the obedience of Michael the Archangel (Jude 1:6-8)
Thanks for your ministry guys, I have learned so much from this video about 1 Thess. 4 that I didn't know before, especially about vs 16 Jesus is NOT the Archangel and it is NOT Jesus voice but the Archangels voice as the angel(s) are present with Jesus when He comes so Jesus is present when the voice of the angel cries out. Wow context is key!!
Why do they, the SDAs, spend so much time preaching this? I wonder, who was the first person who came up with concept that Jesus and Michael are one in the same?
I would like to know where in the Bible it says that Michael is a created spiritual being? As Sam claims. Yes, Jesus is the Chief Commander of the of the heavenly angels (created spiritual beings), they are His angelic host/ army. That doesn't mean that He is a spirit creature Himself
@@justindwarika2523 The name Michael originates from the Hebrew Mika-el. Its true meaning is “Who is like God?” It’s a question actually. Your twisted view comes from the false prophetess Ellen G White. It was a desperate move on her part to link her doctrine to the canon.
@@Jesus-alone And if the Greek rendition of Michael’s name doesn’t work for them, then how about HEB1:5? “For to which of the Angels did he ever say “ You are my son , today I have begotten you? 🤔
It’s weird to me that the SDA pastor said over and over “turn with me to…” and rarely did he turn any page in his Bible, just keeps it open on the cover page. I get his notes are there, but it makes the Bible look more like a prop for him, especially when he asks the congregation to turn WITH him to xyz. Wouldn’t have stuck out to me if he just asked them to turn to xyz. But I’m also not convinced of his sincerity every time he thinks he makes a good point and says to them “seems like you’re still not convinced”. Felt like every time he said that, it was more of a manipulative tactic as to try to emphasize that they would be ignorant to not believe him.
Ellen g white sounds like she sees Jesus as Mithras and i think the proof is in the fact the Ellen g white suggested in one of her books to adorn the church with christmas tree and adorn it with money. and there is more to it like the way she paints saitain in the pre earth orgin it sounds similar to Mithraism
Ivor Myers had the opportunity to show up and discuss on the Perry’s podcast. He declined when he learned I was going to be there. Dwayne Lemon and Randy Skeete-set it up. Good luck. It isn’t me that’s unwilling. ADL-they also had the opportunity to show up over a year ago and they didn’t. Instead they whined that I was running and am scared of them. Then they started doing their own “call out” streams and claimed I was sacred for not showing up even though they themselves were first told they could come and bring their objections. Furthermore-they have since demonstrated themselves to be dishonest, unserious individuals. This has been addressed: th-cam.com/video/ZCJ851uxuIU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=oPGWPbWMiawQfI88 They are not qualified representatives for Adventism and are on record using arguments that the organization itself has told Adventists to NOT use anymore (ie: vicarius filli dei = the pope). So get Dwayne Lemon, Randy Skeete or Ivor Myers to come have a discussion on something SDA specific. They’re more qualified for such. But good luck.
@@answeringadventism Pr Ivor Myers said he was never invited to the Perry’s they addressed that and I believe it has been sorted. All you have to do is a short 1min clip video inviting Pr Ivor Myers and Dwayne Lemon to a debate. Easy 👌
I apologize, because i get sucked into these great discussions at night, and then wind up falling asleep. 😂 What's interesting is that I forced myself to listen to this sermon from Doug, several months ago. I wrote down all the proof texts he quoted, but never got around to going through them. Because I was a lukewarm SDA, I never heard of Jesus being Michael. And apparently most people i knew haven't either. 🤔 It sounds like Michael is equivalent to to a General, right?
Daniel 10 :5 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz: 6 His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude. 11 And he said unto me, O Daniel, a man greatly beloved, understand the words that I speak unto thee, and stand upright: for unto thee am I now sent. And when he had spoken this word unto me, I stood trembling. 12 Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words. 13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia. 20 Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come. 21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince. Was Michael the Archangel Actually Christ? A controversial theory suggests that Michael was the pre-incarnate Christ. He is given the title of “prince” and shown to be a “protector of the people of Israel.” Yet, “the one who protects Israel” is God Himself, says Don Stewart. “My help comes from the LORD” (Psalm 121:2-4). Many people argue that if God protects Israel and Michael protects Israel, they must be one and the same. Moreover, when Christ returns, He will come with “the voice, or cry of command, of the archangel” (1 Thessalonians 4:16). But, as Stewart points out, Michael is the chief prince of angels. Jesus is never given the title “chief prince” among His many names, which include “King of Kings and Lord of Lords” (Revelation 19:16). Michael is like the “legatus Augusti proparetore” who “commanded an entire province.” He is one of several commanders in the Angelic army. He is not unique. Jesus is the one and only Son of God. In Matthew 28:18, Jesus tells His disciples, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.” This cannot be said of the Archangel Michael, who, as Jude tells us, could not rebuke Satan; only God can do that. As one with the Father, Christ can rebuke the Devil also. The real power is Christ’s authority to forgive sins, demonstrated by His sacrifice, submission to Roman punishment, and His victory over death. Angels accomplish what humans imagined Christ would do - defeat armies - while only Christ could surpass the limits of human imagination and desire by accomplishing victory over what matters most - separation from God because of our sins. -- 11 months ago This is for constructive criticism but you have some serious mistakes in your Unitarian theology. Jesus is in fact God and divinity. You are making the same mistake the JWs, unitarians, oneness people, and trinitarians make. You are saying that if there’s only one God then it must be the Father and not Jesus. The trinitarians go too far in one direction and say one God means one being and it must be a 3 in one God. The JWs and unitarians and oneness say there’s only one God and they are also thinking one being so they have Jesus being just an angel or created being. But you have a block in your thinking because there can be more than one divine being (God) on the divine plane of life. In other words, there’s more than one being “in God”. The Father is 1 individual being and Jesus is 1 individual being. Jesus was always there before coming to earth as a human and then returned back to heaven. And is one (in harmony) with the Father meaning one in purpose, direction and goal in regard to the plan of redemption. The functionality is as one God. The reason it says one God in the old testament was to say the God of Israel was one and in harmony compared to the false gods of paganism who were always fighting themselves. There’s plenty of scriptures to confirm this but because of space I’ll give only one: 1st John 1:2 - "the life was manifested and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us-" (also 1st John 5:20 referring to both the Father and Jesus, says "This is the true God and eternal life". Jesus is the LORD GOD of the holy prophets as in Revelation 22:6 & 7, “Then he said to me, “These words are faithful and true”. And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place. “Behold I am coming quickly! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.” I think you said Jesus is still a man in heaven. Here are reasons why the earthly human body of Jesus which He gave up on the cross was not raised back to life but was a sin offering and burnt offering and went out of existence. John 20: 6,7 says the clothes He was buried in were in the same place His body was placed and were not with the wrapping around His head which indicates the burial clothes just stayed where they were after His body went out of existence. Sometime in the tomb His body went out of existence at or before He was raised back to life (into the spirit nature). Hebrews 10:5,6 says the body He had when on earth was to be a burnt offering meaning it would be consumed not taken back. It also says “the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all (Hebrews 10:10). 1st Peter 3:18 says: “…being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.” “in the spirit” is correct and not “by the spirit”. In other words Jesus was already or made, a spirit being after being raised from the dead. He was not still a human being on the human plane of life but was on a higher plane of existence, the spirit nature. He could however take on human form and appear as a man in order to prove to the disciples that he was in fact risen. The same thing was done in the Old Testament (Genesis 18th and 19th chapter) when the angels and maybe even God, appeared to Abraham but they were not men, not human beings in their natural state. It could have even been God or Jesus as the "Word or Logos" because that’s similar to logo which means brand name or something which speaks for something. Hebrews 5:7 says, “who, in the days of His flesh…” this is referring to when Jesus was on earth as a human being from when he was a baby to the death on the cross. After His resurrection and ascension He is no longer a man and Hebrews 7:26 says He was made “higher than the heavens” that’s divinity and deity. 1st John says, referring to Jesus and the Father that this is the true God and eternal life. That’s divinity and deity. The Logos is God, as Thomas stated: "My Lord and my God." ... The Logos is God active in creation, revelation, and redemption. Jesus Christ not only gives God's Word to us humans; he is the Word. The Logos is God, begotten and therefore distinguishable from the Father, but, being God, of the same substance (essence).
Blessings Friend 🙏 I lost my best friend to them. Then, separately, one of my sisters and a nephew decided to disown me over my stand against the SDA. Sad...
@@RandomTChance One would think that if your "dear ones" wanted to bring you back to their "Present Truth," they would not slam the door in you face. Good evangelical methodology ~ NOT.
@@cindiloowhoo1166 RIGHT! My sister called our Roman Catholic cousin to gripe about me is what's really funny. I hang with my cousin on a regular basis and we have never had a problem over religion. He and I even go together to services at both our Churches. 🤷♂️
@@alllthatinacan Anyone that chooses Adventism is wrong, Juli. I have nothing to fear because I'm Saved by Grace through Faith. Jesus has given me Eternal Life. In case you missed it Eternal Life is Eternal
Remember there will be a sifting prosess in the SDA church. It seems this has started to purify God's church. I am sorry that these people were never converted by the Holy Spirit.
Take note of the following verses in Genesis 16 and Zechariah 3, which show the angel of the LORD (Yahweh) speaking in the voice of Yahweh: Zechariah 3:1 "1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. 2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?" ... 6 And the angel of the LORD protested unto Joshua, saying, 7 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk among these that stand by." Genesis 16 "9 So the angel of the LORD told her, “Return to your mistress and submit to her authority.” 10 Then the angel added, “I will greatly multiply your offspring so that they will be too numerous to count.” ... 13So Hagar gave this name to the LORD who had spoken to her: “You are the God who sees me,d” for she said, “Here I have seen the One who sees me!”" Notice the exact rebuke uttered by the angel of the LORD (who was himself Yahweh) in Zechariah 3:2 as Michael is said to have uttered in Jude 1:9. Michael is _the_ (with the definite article) angel of the LORD, which is to say, the "messenger of Yahweh", which is pre-incarnate Jesus. The Greek word for archangel, i.e. "archaggelos", does not necessarily mean that the one referred to is an angel (i.e. angelic creature like Gabriel). It literally means ruler of the angels.
1 Timothy 5:21 ¶I charge you before God and the Lord Jesus Christ and the elect angels that you observe these things without prejudice, doing nothing with partiality. Hmm, this scripture seems to differentiate between Jesus and the elect angels, which I assume to be arch angels? No?
Oh, another translation says "highest" angels. Anyway, I was making the point that if Jesus and the elect/highest angels are mentioned separately, then they are not one in the same.
I confess this video was a bit of a gilding the Lilly for me. Not that I can't benefit from it, I'm sure I will pick up some useful nugget when I listen to the whole thing eventually from you or Sam. But what I'm saying is I already found that debate you did with your father's associate SDA pastor more than sufficient for framing the argument around this topic. When I combine your handling of the topic with my own education and experience of Biblical theology, I was able to write a pretty good piece on the topic for Facebook and message boards which I'm going to copy and paste bellow. Satan as the Scapegoat
This Blogstyle post was written to explain to the Adventists that hung around one of my Facebook groups why Christians find their doctrine of the Scapegoat objectionable.
1) Animals in the Old Testament were supposed to be "without defect", foreshadowing and symbolizing Christ "being without sin". Satan does not fit this, only in his early days "as a ministering Cherub" before his Fall would he fit this. In his actual state, Satan is the antithesis of this important Biblical theological motif. 2)"The Divine Economy of Romans 5:12-21" King James Version 12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the [a]offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many [b]offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s [c]offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. This passage has been summarized by great saints like Gregory of Nazianus and Athanasius as "that which is not assumed is not healed"and"that which is not united to his Divinity is not saved."
(Post 2) This is why the Adventist Scapegoat is considered so blasphemous by Christians. We see in the previous passage what is called an "Economia" (Economy). In the ancient world this term describes a way of doing things, it literally was used to describe something like a "mode of operations", of how you run your household. And I would argue the above is a lot of what the ancient Jewish sacrificial system was about had to do with this foreshadowing and symbolizing the transfer of sin by transposing of hands by the priest on the offering, to the one that needed the sin offering. It was noted by ancient Christians ages ago, for instance that the shape of the transposed hands looks a bit like a Greek Cross, or a X which in Greek would have been the letter Chi, which also stood for Christ, being the first letter of the Greek term Messiah, and also looking like a cross. But back to the point, the ramifications of the doctrine is blasphemous when the Scapegoat's significance is considered from a larger perspective of things, namely those two above points and their ramifications, aka "What is not assumed is not saved" a law that God himself established in the Bible to point to Christ. Satan is definitely not without defect, nor did he assume our humanity to pay for our sin. I think Adventists find the Scapegoat doctrine appealing because of the fact the goat ends up with the name of a Fallen Angel/ Demon in Jewish Tradition, and of course Satan gets wiped out in the end of the book of Revelation, and having this new insight come from a Revelation was the new hot thing, especially since it was a proof text for the Adventist doctrine of Annihilationism rather than Hell being Eternal. This I think is the real problem or issue, and most likely will not go away with this post but it is the real "Elephant in the room". Closing 1) In closing, I will concede that in this heterodox teaching Adventists did stumble on an important point, the name of the Scape Goat and its significance. When it comes to types and anti-types in the Bible there is a lot going on, and I do find significance in the name of the goat but I believe that is symbolizing other stuff like the Fallen nature of Man, the robber Barabas that was released in place of Christ, even a foreshadowing of Christ, "being tempted in the Wilderness" a scene that somewhat has enacted out the scape goat literally and metaphorically. 2) And lastly, I will raise one point brought up by a Calvinist Theologian and Historian on this issue, that Adventists tend to miss. He claimed that somebody went out and followed the Scapegoat after it was released to make sure it did die eventually after a few days. While I have not found yet officially been able to confirm this fact (few people write on it and post their work to the internet), I do believe it based on study and common sense. 1) Because all other near eastern peoples had similar kind of rituals where that was the case, but more importantly 2) Because of the fact, that the wilderness of the region was a dry dessert, and a domestic farm animal like a goat, is not designed to deal with the lack of water like a camel, mountain goat or similar wilderness creature. But going back to typologies and their spiritual meanings, I do see some important meanings from this. Simply being temporarily pardoned for our trespasses and sins, is not enough. We will all will eventually die from them, to be free we need something, really somebody that can fix things permanently and not just put on a spiritual Band Aid (of simply covering our sin) and that person is Christ.
Very good 👏 I also see another problem that may or may not have been dealt with previously...? Can an angel be sacrificed for sin? 🤔 In the Gospel story, everything is visible: Jesus was born as a man, lived, died, resurrected, etc. - everything was visually verifiable by people living at the time... but an angel? This seems to be delving into the realm of fantasy & make-believe? How can anyone (human) verify that anything happened amongst the angels? Not to mention that the idea that angels would have anything to do with the permanent expiation of sin for all time... on an evil angel doomed to destruction?
@@kimartist I dealt with that later in the essay talking about the Divine Economy and a large chunk of Romans 5 and the quotes from Athanasius and Gregory of Nazianzus, "that which is not assumed cannot be healed/ that which is not assumed is not saved."
@@kimartist if I recall this kind of problem was raised before in western medieval Nominalist theology, where William Ockham suggested that God could have easily willed some other than Christ death on a cross, like a donkey doing no less. That is of course horrible theology.
@@alllthatinacanMichael is a name, not a title. Every name that is given by God has a meaning. And if Michael is Jesus Christ then he’s also God, because God said He’s Jesus. Acts 9:5 “And he said, “Who are you, Lord?” And he said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.”
@@IjeomaMenkiti Yes, Jesus is God and one of His names / titles is Michael the Arch Angel. Michael means "who is like God." No one is like God except Jesus Christ. The NT says Jesus is the express image of God. He came to us to reveal the glory of God which is His unfathomable love shown in His great sacrifice in giving His life for us undeserving sinners.
Don't SDA pray to Jesus and accept Him as there personal savior? Are they not true christians?. I am just a little bit confussed 😊 And will they not come to heaven? I never heard about this. I hope someone will answer me. Thanks❤❤❤ Can somebody please answer me. Nobody says anything 😊
@@thomasolsen2780 Yes, even though SDA believe Michael is Jesus, SDA's only pray in the name of Jesus and accept, believe and teach that Jesus is our personal Lord and Savior.
If you listen carefully to what Myles and Sam have presented here you will have your question answered. Sdas believe in a lesser Jesus, one that is the same “substance “ of God, but lower than him.
G3413 Michael : an archangel G734 archangel : a chief angel Hebrews 1: 4-14 KJV " Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time , thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee ? And again , I will be him a father, and he shall be to me a son? And again when he bringth in the firstbegotten into the world, he said, and let all the angels of God worship him " . . . . Who else would the angels be worshipping if it's not God the father?. Why would Michael and his angels be fighting against the dragon and his angels in Rev 12:7-9 ( this was when lucifer got kicked out of heaven ) So, it Couldn't have been Gabriel. . . If Michael isn't Christ , then who is it ? . Daniel 10:21 " But I will shew thee that which is noted in scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with in these things , but Michael your prince" Michael H4317 : who (is) like God ? Prince H8269 : a head person / captain, Ruler, chief . . .
this IS the type of Bible study that is so vital!!! GO TO THE HEBREW and compare! Yes!! This is how Adventism and all false teachings crumble. Let God be true and man a liar. God's word never fails. Great video 🙌🏼 SDAs should learn heavily from this and start fact checking all SDA teachings in this way. This is what we started doing 3 years ago
I believe if we love the Lord wholeheartedly, the truth through the Spirit will reveal the truth (John 16:13, 1 John 2:27) if we have ears to hear and not hearts of stone (Ezekiel 11:19-20) instead of just "refuting" something that we dont understand the basis of. Honestly this is not the Spirit of Christ but that of war, that of the devil because it only ends in those who believe to believe more but those who dont also just dont believe more so no one actually learns but it just builds a heart that is less likely to learn. I think we should just teach that which we believe is truth and by prayer the listener will fairly decide what they will believe. God bless the presenters for their work to spread truth, i just feel its too violent
Rev 12:7-10 The text says the dragon is Satan. Sam is asking why the text doesn't say that Michael is Jesus. Didn't you guys read vs 10!!!!!???? It clearly says that Now is come salvation and the power of his who? Christ! How clear do you want it to be. Don't you guys understand anything about context?! Let me ask you guys a question, Myles and Sam, if i give you undeniable proof that Michael is Jesus will you be convinced or you will deny the verses like you do other scriptures given as evidence? I will give you the evidence anyway. Dan 12:1 says Michael, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people stands up and as a result, everyone written in the book is delivered? So Michael is delivering everyone. What does Psalm 27:4-5 say, He (The LORD) shall hide me in the time of trouble? To mean that he has to be the same person. Isn't that undeniable proof or you will still try to explain it away because of your blinders?
"Undeniably evidence that Jesus is Micheal you say" WOW. Your evidence must be from your dènominations one ànd only Clear Word Bible then. For not even drugs combined with sculptural twisting will give you your desired results from my Biblè.
@@answeringadventism hello brother Myles. You always say that Adventists have blinders of the great controversy theme when reading scripture. I honestly think that if you reject the great controversy theme you will always have blinders on. That's what I meant. However what do you think about the proof I provided above that Michael is Jesus?
22:15 Sam just called me a Satanic troll just for pointing out what Dr White, as well as so many other Christians, have said about the aggressive and un-Christlike behaviour Sam has shown over the years. It does not mean that what he says is not valid, it is the very aggressive rage filled delivery, including calling people Satanic trolls that is the issue. It has pushed myself and many others away from the very good messages Sam has delivered over the years. This is something we should have in mind when we consume hours of content, as this type of negative communication method is something that will affect us long term. Ken Ham, although his message might be valid, shows the same kind of behaviour. God bless you all
@@darryldanzinger9996 I believe so, yes. But Ken can be awfully prickly and downright disrespectful. I am currently studying YEC vs OEC, due to Myles' recent video on the topic, and I have come across a debate between Dr Hugh Ross and Ken Ham. I had to turn it off, as Ken was actually making my blood boil even though I currently still hold to YEC and am testing it against OEC. I could not believe how calm and loving Dr Hugh Ross was at answering Ken's attacks on OEC with such scientific and biblical class, without ever losing patience or composure, and it clearly made me start to question the YEC position more. Lennox also has a very calm and Christian composure as it relates to this topic, and it definitely stands out against YEC apologists who seems to have a vitriol against anyone that does not hold their position. It really makes one think...
@@coachdanferreira I haven't watched a lot of Ken, But don't let someone's lack of composure determine your theology. Truth is truth no matter how it's delivered.
@@darryldanzinger9996 of course! I agree with you. It just made me think that the opposite position to mine might in fact be true. Usually when someone has to resort to ad hominem attacks (in the YEC and OEC debate it is usually about the other person's status of salvation and belief in God) and is clearly flustered and just lashes out, it is because that person is insecure about their theories, feels cornered, and doesn't want to have the inconsistencies exposed. It's a last resort effort to try winning.
In terms of rebuking Satan how do you interpret Zechariah 3 where it says Yahweh said to Satan "may Yahweh rebuke you"? I know you probably won't reply to it because you have no answer.
They'll see a word one place and another word other place. They run with thus word fallacy. Isaiah 27: 9- 13 talks about how the bible should be studied. And thats exactly what doug is doing. Precept upon Precept line upon line there a little here a little.
So you aren’t aware why Enoch was cited, obviously. It helps if you listen. Sam didn’t say that Enoch was canononical or every aspect infallible. He cited there because JUDE cited from there and Sam was showing that in JUDE (which is scripture) that Michael CAN’T be Jesus because JUDE (which is in scripture) didn’t believe Michael was Jesus. Out of all of that spiritual meat fest, that’s the last ditch effort you have-that Enoch was cited to show what Jude was referring to. Listen to learn next time and not for gotcha’s. We already know the extra biblical sources SDAs cite for their convoluted teachings-including the scapegoat.
@@answeringadventism ... Oh, i understand why it was cited.. I was listening... Soo, it's "Ok" to cite The Book Of Enoch to try to reinforce what you assume Jude, may, or may not, have believed about either, or both, Michael and Jesus.. (even tho is still conjecture)? ... But it's "not Ok", to cite that Same Book ( that Jude quoted from, whether every aspect infallible or not.. ) for the identification on who Azazel/the scapegoat, is?... ( Has it ever occurred to you, that both, You, & the SDA'S, could be wrong?? )...
@@thenowchurch6419 ... See: 1 Enoch 8 : 1 - 3.. & ..1 Enoch 9 : 6 Also Noteworthy is that there is just ONE goat for The LORD (YHWH), in Lev. 16 : 9 - 10.. Therefore, Azazel cannot BE "The LORD'S Goat" too... or they would BOTH be named "The LORD'S GOATS".
Jesus was not that angel of Yahweh. Angels are God's ministers. God said to Israel : I am sending my angel ahead if you. My name is in Him, Listen to Him, He will not forgive you if you don't.. In the case of Abraham and Lot. Three visitors came to him. Two angels and Jesus. Jesus left and the two angels stayed to save Lot.. Jesus is not a created Being. He is God. God used his angels to minister unto humans
1 Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord him self shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:" KJV. There is a archangel there but it's not Jesus! so it might be Michael the archangel who is the one that see's The Lord Jesus Christ descending from Heaven, and has been given the instruction to shout when he see The Lord Jesus Christ starting to descend from Heaven! that the time has come! the return Of The Lord Jesus Christ back to earth! and the trump Of God! so Michael is not The Lord Jesus Christ! The Lord will return with a army! the sda are not Christians! they are lost! they need Jesus!
Not really following. But noticed a mistake. Lucifer is not the devil. Lucifer is a mistranslation that occured when scripture was written into Latin. Lucifer refers to the planet Venus, not Halil the fallen one from the Baal cycle that Isaiah was referring to .
I think you need to check your history. Biblical history did not begin in the USA. it's history is based not in American concepts of English, but in historical middle eastern thinking. Lucifer only came into thinking during the Catholic attempts at canonization and interpretation. Thankfully modern translators have dropped the name, realising the mistake
You guys need some summary videos 3hr is a lot of time, sam lost all credibility when he became Catholic because anyone that really knows the Bible should easily see catacysim and Bible are pretty much opposite books.....what was Yahusha's name before coming down and after going back, i do not think any Bible quotes exist spelling it out exactly.
@Adam-N-Eve well a sola scriptura biblical protastant Bible is SUPPOSED To win always and TRADITION SHOULD go where it belongs in the trash. (Though most of the unbiblical tradition go back to catholic) IN Practice though sdas are probably the closest, but they forget the feasts and new moons in favor of pagan holidays. HEBREW ROOTS too are way off because they are looking for earthly massiah, earthly kingdom, earthly regathering.....I think you are right to stay out of the religions/denominations and just read your Bible.
Theology is literally the study of God. Yes, Jesus cares if you have the correct Jesus (Matthew 24:24). Jesus cares about your theology and what you believe about Him. “These details” are foundational, not tertiary. Your heart has to be converted to the true God. You can’t just have good intentions. Muslims have good intentions, Buddhists have good intentions, that doesn’t mean they have peace with the true God for their sins against Him. What they believe matters.
@@answeringadventism Yes, but u can go nuts with studying all the years of theology and u never grow closer in personal relationship, Jesus didnt ask us to become pastors or theology experts, did he? We can have the knowledge that buffs us up, look how simple people where back in the day, they didnt have bible, they belived the GOSPEL, that is what matters. I mean how we know what SDA relationship with God have? Did ur relationship with God changed? How do you describe that? Didnt u have the fruits of the spirit when u were SDA? Didn't u have Gods presence, Holy Spirit in ur life? U know.. Iam not theologian , I do read bible, but I cant pull up scripture and debate them. But I do seek and talk to Jesus and its the most important thing, nothing matters more, bible is helpful.. But God sees your heart, we dont seek God from university .. I mean they can be the most dry belivers, they belive in bible yes, as the book, but they cant understand spiritual things, warfare, spiritual gifts, tongues, healing, casting out demons, and what is to be in communion with God. That can be the issue, And then those folks who end up in prisons, seek Jesus and will be spirit filled belivers with power from Lord.. Ohh thats amazing, but theology wont save us . Alltho I like to watch some of ur videos, it has to do my GF is 7 day adventist. And I dont want to attack her, I think she seeks truth, Jesus, she prays, iam sure one cant go wrong.
@@partlysimpson5154Myles looks way too young to have been a former SDA Pastor. Both Myles and Sam said the souls don't sleep, their in another realm, I'd like to know what realm as noone is in heaven or hell prior to judgement day. I agree with you we don't need to be theologians, God gives us the gift of discernment, the Holy Spirit reveals to us the truth.
Your petulant child emoji is pathetic. Adventists are not Christians- it’s a demonstrable fact. Adventists are religious cultists. If you are offended by the truth that’s on you. No one forced you to join a religious cult. You are a crybaby.
you guys are so blind its pointless using logics verse scripture who dan 12 :1 compare with acts 5:30-31 please read don't these myles and sam confuse a plain thus saith the LORD
Though I very much respect Myles and appreciate this channel, I have been given a hard time by some of my friends in ministry when I tell them to subscribe. “How could someone allow Sam on the platform. What a lack of discernment!” They say.
I can understand having Sam on, he is very good at exposing lies and telling the truth about cults, although I do believe he prays to Mary, which is ironic. I do like listening to his arguments and his amazing knowledge of the Bible and the Qur'an. However the fruits he bears are somewhat suspicious, at least from the person we see online. I do not know Sam personally, neither can I assume he is the same offline. However as you saw at minute 22:00 roughly, when I pointed out Dr James White had some strong words regarding Sam and I tend to agree, Sam, on live camera, called me a Satanic troll. Which just solidified my point. I left a comment few hours ago on this video explaining the context of my live comment, also saying that this isn't just one man's opinion, but also the opinion of many God fearing Christians, many of them pastors and elders. Sam has shown to struggle a lot with rage and foul language directed to anyone, including Christians, who might disagree with his positions. Calling them demon possessed, demons, Satanic trolls (my personal case) etc. In one phrase he will be praising God and asking for the presence of the Holy Spirit and seconds later hurl profanity and insults against fellow Christians that might disagree with his positions. It is very un-Christlike. I know we all have our sins, as all have fallen short, but there seems to be no desire to repent from his ways and apologise for his rude behaviour. And that is the issue. We are called to put away sin and repent of our sins, whatever they may be and how hard it may be to do so. I believe it has pushed not only myself, but many Christians as well, away from his channel.
Simple-one can still learn things from someone they disagree with on numerous things. The substance of what was presented is still true, nonetheless. But I know Sam isn’t for everyone and his style is not going to be received by all. But I’m not plugged in to all of the e-drama around individuals. We’re here to share information.
@@answeringadventism Yes I agree. The content is very helpful. It is just a shame that Sam lets the flesh take over so often when it comes to the delivery of the true message. It is definitely downright disrespectful to call anyone, much less a Christian, a satanic troll based on something that was said about a very obvious problem that has been pointed out by a hoard of very respected Christian leaders, most of them from the Reformed camp. Just watch 10min of Sam's apologetic content, whether it be directed Christians or Muslims, and you will see this is not a one off case. God bless you Myles, thank you for your ministry!
@@RandomTChance Jesus had very strong words for the religious leaders, as we can see in Matthew 23. Paul also has very strong words against Judaizers. This behaviour, at least to me, seems different... It's not about rebuking errors in a calm way. It's about trying to win an argument and being petty when the other person doesn't agree with you. Calling fellow Christians demon possessed and satanic trolls is not something that should ever come out of the mouth of a professing Christian, except in cases of blasphemy against the name of Jesus and Lord Almighty.
😂😂. You are petty.. 2;18... Michael standing up causes dead to be raised. You guys keep shifting goal posts. You say we need to interpret scriptures correctly not just to win an argument. Its obvious when christ comes the dead will be raised
The removal of Moses’s sandals demonstrated the holiness of God’s presence. Moreover, the Angel gives His name as, “I AM WHO I AM.” In Joshua 5:13-15 a man with a drawn sword is revealed to Joshua, the commander of the armies of Israel. He replied, “Neither; but as commander of the army of the Lord I have now come.” And Joshua fell on his face to the earth and worshiped, and he said to him, “What do you command your servant, my lord?” (Joshua 15:14) From the conversation, we discover that the man with the drawn sword is the commander of the army of heaven. Joshua was required to remove his sandals, like Moses. This tells us that the commander was divine. The commander of the hosts of heaven is one of the three persons of the Godhead. The three members of the Godhead are the only One’s worthy of worship. Nehemiah 9:6 shows us that He is the Creator of heaven and the One who is worshiped by the armies of heaven. John 1:2, 3 tell us that it is Christ who is the Creator. In the battle that took place in heaven, the Commander of the armies of heaven in Revelation 12:7-9 appears under the name Michael. Michael and His angels prevailed over the dragon. From Joshua and the book of Nehemiah, we learn that Jesus is the Commander of the heavenly armies. Daniel 10:13, 21 present Michael as an important Commander and your prince. If He is our prince, we should know Him well. We should be very familiar with this person. However, because the Bible is full of the characteristics of Michael, under different names, we are trying to clarify the dilemma. All the attributes of the one who is called Michael lead us to the characteristics of the Lord Jesus Christ. He is the only who is involved in every event in heaven and on earth. We must pay careful attention to the identity of the One who is a part of the great battle that has shifted to this earth. In Jude 9, Michael is battling over the body of Moses. In Daniel 12:1 Michael takes a position to protect His people and brings salvation to those who are written in the book. Michael is described to us as a personality with a very important role. There are few details regarding His activity. However, if we compare the characteristics of Michael with those of the Lord Jesus Christ, we can clearly see that the Bible is speaking of the same person. He is the Creator. His creation, humans, were stolen from Him. He is the One who took the greatest responsibility in the salvation of humans. In Isaiah 47:4 He is the Lord of hosts and our Redeemer. He is the One who risked everything, no matter what it would cost, to recover His property: humans. In Daniel 7:13, 14 who is the One who comes with clouds? If we compare the verses that describe Michael and the verses that describe the Lord Jesus Christ, there is overlap, and the verses about Michael point us to the verses about Jesus Christ.
Sorry but Michael the Archangel and Jesus are not the same person. Jude verse 9 "9But even the archangel Michael, when he disputed with the devil over the body of Moses, did not presume to bring a slanderous charge against him, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”
Thanks Myles and Sam for this! ❤
I never realized that the war in heaven was after the acension. Based on my Adventist teaching, i just thought it was from rhe beginning of time.
I keep getting rid of layers and layers of false Adventist teachings from my mind but there are just so much sigh. May the Lord pluck His children from that organization and plant them firmly in the biblical gospel.
Yikes! I need to give this another listen or two & get a transcript.
@@cindiloowhoo1166 yup the whole thing is so messed up
WOW!! What a powerful discussion! A lot of meat was brought to the table and I know I will be listening to this many, many, times and taking notes. Both Myles & Sam are not only passionate for God's truth, but powerhouses of knowledge regarding history & theology and we are sooooo blessed that the Lord is using them to help educate the body of Christ. May God bless you and yours, your ministries & all who work behind the scenes (thank God for them!) and keep all of you safe, strong, and preserve your faithful hearts always. ❤️🙏🙏🙏🕊️
Such a crucial, life-changing conversation, way above the importance of the suffering people and millions being affected by wars.
It's so good to have something to run away to.
What a session! The Assyrian Encyclopedia absolutely smoked Smug Doug! One to watch again and again.
Anyone else notice that whenever Doug Batchelor “reads from” his Bible. He is always in the very front.. regardless of whether referencing Genesis or Revelation, or any books between. I cannot help thinking that if he read from scripture vs notes. He might be convicted to be more honest. I find reading from my Bible to be much more inspirational & convicting.. over reading my own notes from the scripture. Just a thought..
God bless you Myles (and Sam) for another great session. 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
This is a great point. This has been his style for decades. He’s the proof text Gatling Gun of Adventism. But as we saw-there is great danger in handling the sacred scriptures that way.
I have long noticed Doug reading his notes as if he was reading from the Bible. I find it disrespectful to turn the Bible into a "prop".
Miles knows nothing of what he is talking about
@@kindnesslove1732
And why dont you go ahead and refute him with some of the facts that you have?
At this point we all know opinions dont count and yours are an emty tin with marbles, only making a noise.
What an odd accusation. Doug is somehow dishonest because he chooses to collate the unedited scripture that he will be using for his sermons, into one place?! Is that what you’re suggesting?
Enjoyed the live stream and learned a lot about the whole Michael as Jesus heresie SDA teaches.
Powerful Biblical teaching.. Need to watch again to remove very bit of SDA heresy good job Myles and Sam
Exactly
I’ve been digging that crud out for decades…. It must have tentacles, like a toe fungus ~~~
Loved this session! Looking forward to rewatching. Thanks so much Myles and Sam. May God Bless your ministry also Myles for the glory of our Triune God. Pax Christ ✝️
Great session guys! May the LORD our God continue to bless and guide you both with wisdom in the Scriptures. Peace
Wow 😯 this is such a brilliant study - it makes so much sense - Salvation accomplished - of course that’s when Satan was cast out - he could accuse the brethren no longer 😮 it is so clear thank you 🙏🏻
I feel the same. It's like the scales fell off. I am mind blown! This is another indication that the atonement is complete, done, finished....there is no second phase.
@@Kcheatsheet absolutely 😊🙏🏻
A point not underscored enough by those of us responding to SDAs is that Ellen White herself claimed there were many “archangels” (plural) throughout her writings and even went so far as to call Satan himself an “archangel”.
Also that she called him "His Majesty"
The title "Michael the Archangel" is not a created arch angel. Michael means who is like God, which can only be Jesus. The angels are not like God, they are created and serve God.
@@Marey-hw6wn Can you provide the direct quote (book, page) in which EG white called Satan "His Majesty." Thank you.
@@alllthatinacan Wrong. Archangel is a created Angel, it cannot be Jesus because Michael rebukes Satan in the name of the Lord because Michael is not the Lord. Jesus is the Lord.
@@alllthatinacan “This man of faith beholds the ladder presented in Jacob’s vision,-the ladder which rested upon the earth and reached to the highest heavens, and upon which angels of God were ascending and descending. He knows that this ladder represents Christ, who has connected earth with Heaven, and finite man with the infinite God. He hears angels and archangels magnifying that glorious name.” {LP 332.2}
“And the angelic host, angels and archangels, covering cherub and glorious seraph, echo back the refrain of that joyous, triumphant song…” {HP 371.4}
Love your podcast! Was fooled by SDA in thinking they were Born Again Christians. Years ago read Kingdom of the Cults and just thought they were a bit confused about keeping the Sabbath and diet issues. Now my eyes are opened. I live near Loma Linda and come across many....will have to study up more and listen to more of your podcasts so that I can witness to them!! Thank you!!
I was adventist for awhile also. Somebody I knew who worked at an adventist hospital used to file a procedure for purposes of billing many times. On one occasion she asked what this procedure was that she filed many times. She was told an abortion. I looked into this and not only found it to be true, but adventists were the second largest providers of abortions in california. This is not just another christian denomination. th-cam.com/video/P_lGDBMml28/w-d-xo.htmlsi=DAVGjrzHp6obC3MC ...and also... th-cam.com/video/ndP0FoTOK74/w-d-xo.htmlsi=YzPvKTS-Bro55feg
The Washington Post did an article on this.
I've been considering joining a baptist church.
@@benjaminparadise6397Adventists keep all the commandments including thou shalt not murder. That means no abortions.
I know you think God's law was done away with but, you bearing false witness is annoying.
@@andrewthomas8536 I was a coordinator for adventurers for two years. It was an adventist who worked at an adventist hospital who told me this. It was after this that I found the article the Washington Post did on this fact. What is the "bearing false testimony"?
Wow 4 hrs thank u Myles and Sam, PRAY for JERUSALEM GB 🔥🕊️🎺🇮🇱
But still love your channel thank you GB 🕊️🔥
Sam Shamoun is like a breath of fresh air listening to his biblical understanding, it's deep and alive. Thank you Sam.
Thank Sam may they enlighten on the word of God. Hope they be like Sam who is honest in the Bible..
Thank you Myles and Sam for the clear explanation of what the official sda stand on this subject. I’m in agreement with you both, I’m not interested in an individual’s explanation but the official stance. Y’all nailed it.
Thank you Sam and Myles. 😊🙏💕
Jesus commands angels , has angels .
Shamounian feels the same way I do upon hearing SDA theology: "It's torturing me." 😨
It's just SO hard to conceive that people are really being taught this dreck in all 3-piece-suit seriousness 🤯
Jesus is Michael the Archangel. It is simply another title He holds (I AM, Lamb of God, the Good Shepherd, the Bread of Life, the Living Water, the Messiah, the Redeemer, the Prince of Peace, the Lion of Judah, the Mediator, the Judge, etc.) He is God, not a created angel. He is head of the heavenly host. The angels worship Him and do His bidding.
It's fine if you don't believe this, but honestly, why make this such a hot button issue when Seventh Day Adventists have so many doctrinal videos on this issue to explain the scriptures they use to support this title.
“Why make this such a hot button issue…”
Why comment when you clearly didn’t watch? You guys always give yourself away with these types of comments. It helps if you actually watch the videos you comment on.
Think about it like this, the titles of Jesus are positions of the office he holds (for lack of better words). They are descriptors of his attributes. Micheal the Archangel is not a position, nor an attribute. Michael is a spiritual creature, an archangel, with a name. To say the Jesus is Michael the Archangel, is to say that he is a creature, and not divine. It's not a title for Jesus. Michael is is own person.
@@StringofPearls55 However, SDA do believe it's a title for Jesus who is devine and don't believe Michael is a created creature. We have defined what we mean, and yet people say we worship satan which is absurd.
Read Exodus 3. The "Angel of the Lord" appeared to Moses in the burning bush in verse 2. Then in verse 6, this "Angel of the Lord" calls himself God. It is apparent that in this case the title "Angel of the Lord" is not a created angel for the divine God of the Universe.
In many instances in scripture, Angel simply means messenger. So this Angel of the Lord was bringing Moses a message to relay to Pharaoh...Let My People Go.
I agree that SDAs believe this. I was just pointing out a simple contradiction to that belief~
I watched the video and listened to the speakers give their case as to why they think Micheal the Archangel is a title and want you to think it as well, but their evidence isn't at all compelling nor convincing. Scripture never contradicts itself. God bless.
@@StringofPearls55 I agree, scripture never ever contradicts itself.
Awesome show, Myles! 🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽 Thank you and Sam, so much! God bless you both! 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
🤜🤛
It is, or, at least seems to be, blasphemy to relegate Jesus, in this fashion, for certain. God Bless You All In Jesus Name.
Thanks, Myles and Sam! May God Bless you both and everyone here! Glory to God! Amen! 🕊️☦️
I was here, live. Then I got kicked out. Grr!! I am a member!!
The Son Is Greater Than the Angels
Hebrews 1:5 For God never said to any angel what he said to Jesus:
“You are my Son. Today I have become your Father.”
God also said, “I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son.”
6 And when he brought his supreme Son into the world, God said, “Let all of God’s angels worship him.”
Jesus exalted . Philipians 2;9
Could you explain why Satan was given access to the garden if he was dwelling in heaven?
Always learn so much from you 2 together!
If you read the book of Jude in context it is clear the author made a distinction between Jesus and Michael as the Name Jesus and Christ are used multiple times when referring to Jesus as Lord and Master. Also in context the author is comparing the fallen angels who rebelled and the rebellious people in contrast to the obedience of Michael the Archangel (Jude 1:6-8)
Precisely. Jude very clearly didn’t think Michael is the Lord Almighty yet He clearly did believe such about Jesus.
Thanks for your ministry guys, I have learned so much from this video about 1 Thess. 4 that I didn't know before, especially about vs 16 Jesus is NOT the Archangel and it is NOT Jesus voice but the Archangels voice as the angel(s) are present with Jesus when He comes so Jesus is present when the voice of the angel cries out. Wow context is key!!
Why do they, the SDAs, spend so much time preaching this? I wonder, who was the first person who came up with concept that Jesus and Michael are one in the same?
I would like to know where in the Bible it says that Michael is a created spiritual being? As Sam claims.
Yes, Jesus is the Chief Commander of the of the heavenly angels (created spiritual beings), they are His angelic host/ army. That doesn't mean that He is a spirit creature Himself
Michael literally translates to "who is like God" 😑
@@justindwarika2523
The name Michael originates from the Hebrew Mika-el. Its true meaning is “Who is like God?” It’s a question actually.
Your twisted view comes from the false prophetess Ellen G White. It was a desperate move on her part to link her doctrine to the canon.
@@glock269mil2and who is like God ? Jesus Christ
Jesus christ is like God
@@glock269mil2Exactly, they always miss the question mark. The answer to that question is no one.
Jesus isn’t LIKE God he IS God.
@@Jesus-alone
And if the Greek rendition of Michael’s name doesn’t work for them, then how about HEB1:5?
“For to which of the Angels did he ever say “ You are my son , today I have begotten you?
🤔
It’s weird to me that the SDA pastor said over and over “turn with me to…” and rarely did he turn any page in his Bible, just keeps it open on the cover page. I get his notes are there, but it makes the Bible look more like a prop for him, especially when he asks the congregation to turn WITH him to xyz. Wouldn’t have stuck out to me if he just asked them to turn to xyz. But I’m also not convinced of his sincerity every time he thinks he makes a good point and says to them “seems like you’re still not convinced”. Felt like every time he said that, it was more of a manipulative tactic as to try to emphasize that they would be ignorant to not believe him.
Ellen g white sounds like she sees Jesus as Mithras and i think the proof is in the fact the Ellen g white suggested in one of her books to adorn the church with christmas tree and adorn it with money. and there is more to it like the way she paints saitain in the pre earth orgin it sounds similar to Mithraism
When will a debate take place ? Can Myles invite Pr Myers, Dwayne Lemon, Pr Randy Skeete snd ADL for a fair debate about the Adventist cult ?
Ivor Myers had the opportunity to show up and discuss on the Perry’s podcast. He declined when he learned I was going to be there.
Dwayne Lemon and Randy Skeete-set it up. Good luck. It isn’t me that’s unwilling.
ADL-they also had the opportunity to show up over a year ago and they didn’t. Instead they whined that I was running and am scared of them. Then they started doing their own “call out” streams and claimed I was sacred for not showing up even though they themselves were first told they could come and bring their objections.
Furthermore-they have since demonstrated themselves to be dishonest, unserious individuals. This has been addressed: th-cam.com/video/ZCJ851uxuIU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=oPGWPbWMiawQfI88
They are not qualified representatives for Adventism and are on record using arguments that the organization itself has told Adventists to NOT use anymore (ie: vicarius filli dei = the pope).
So get Dwayne Lemon, Randy Skeete or Ivor Myers to come have a discussion on something SDA specific. They’re more qualified for such. But good luck.
@@answeringadventism Pr Ivor Myers said he was never invited to the Perry’s they addressed that and I believe it has been sorted. All you have to do is a short 1min clip video inviting Pr Ivor Myers and Dwayne Lemon to a debate. Easy 👌
I apologize, because i get sucked into these great discussions at night, and then wind up falling asleep. 😂
What's interesting is that I forced myself to listen to this sermon from Doug, several months ago. I wrote down all the proof texts he quoted, but never got around to going through them.
Because I was a lukewarm SDA, I never heard of Jesus being Michael. And apparently most people i knew haven't either. 🤔
It sounds like Michael is equivalent to to a General, right?
Michael means who is like God. So you can look the title as Jesus being God over His created angels who serve Him and do His will.
Daniel 10 :5 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz:
6 His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.
11 And he said unto me, O Daniel, a man greatly beloved, understand the words that I speak unto thee, and stand upright: for unto thee am I now sent. And when he had spoken this word unto me, I stood trembling.
12 Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words.
13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
20 Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.
21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.
Was Michael the Archangel Actually Christ?
A controversial theory suggests that Michael was the pre-incarnate Christ. He is given the title of “prince” and shown to be a “protector of the people of Israel.” Yet, “the one who protects Israel” is God Himself, says Don Stewart. “My help comes from the LORD” (Psalm 121:2-4). Many people argue that if God protects Israel and Michael protects Israel, they must be one and the same. Moreover, when Christ returns, He will come with “the voice, or cry of command, of the archangel” (1 Thessalonians 4:16).
But, as Stewart points out, Michael is the chief prince of angels. Jesus is never given the title “chief prince” among His many names, which include “King of Kings and Lord of Lords” (Revelation 19:16). Michael is like the “legatus Augusti proparetore” who “commanded an entire province.” He is one of several commanders in the Angelic army. He is not unique. Jesus is the one and only Son of God.
In Matthew 28:18, Jesus tells His disciples, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.” This cannot be said of the Archangel Michael, who, as Jude tells us, could not rebuke Satan; only God can do that. As one with the Father, Christ can rebuke the Devil also.
The real power is Christ’s authority to forgive sins, demonstrated by His sacrifice, submission to Roman punishment, and His victory over death. Angels accomplish what humans imagined Christ would do - defeat armies - while only Christ could surpass the limits of human imagination and desire by accomplishing victory over what matters most - separation from God because of our sins.
-- 11 months ago
This is for constructive criticism but you have some serious mistakes in your Unitarian theology. Jesus is in fact God and divinity. You are making the same mistake the JWs, unitarians, oneness people, and trinitarians make. You are saying that if there’s only one God then it must be the Father and not Jesus. The trinitarians go too far in one direction and say one God means one being and it must be a 3 in one God. The JWs and unitarians and oneness say there’s only one God and they are also thinking one being so they have Jesus being just an angel or created being. But you have a block in your thinking because there can be more than one divine being (God) on the divine plane of life. In other words, there’s more than one being “in God”. The Father is 1 individual being and Jesus is 1 individual being. Jesus was always there before coming to earth as a human and then returned back to heaven. And is one (in harmony) with the Father meaning one in purpose, direction and goal in regard to the plan of redemption. The functionality is as one God. The reason it says one God in the old testament was to say the God of Israel was one and in harmony compared to the false gods of paganism who were always fighting themselves. There’s plenty of scriptures to confirm this but because of space I’ll give only one: 1st John 1:2 - "the life was manifested and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us-" (also 1st John 5:20 referring to both the Father and Jesus, says "This is the true God and eternal life". Jesus is the LORD GOD of the holy prophets as in Revelation 22:6 & 7, “Then he said to me, “These words are faithful and true”. And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place. “Behold I am coming quickly! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.” I think you said Jesus is still a man in heaven. Here are reasons why the earthly human body of Jesus which He gave up on the cross was not raised back to life but was a sin offering and burnt offering and went out of existence. John 20: 6,7 says the clothes He was buried in were in the same place His body was placed and were not with the wrapping around His head which indicates the burial clothes just stayed where they were after His body went out of existence. Sometime in the tomb His body went out of existence at or before He was raised back to life (into the spirit nature). Hebrews 10:5,6 says the body He had when on earth was to be a burnt offering meaning it would be consumed not taken back. It also says “the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all (Hebrews 10:10). 1st Peter 3:18 says: “…being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.” “in the spirit” is correct and not “by the spirit”. In other words Jesus was already or made, a spirit being after being raised from the dead. He was not still a human being on the human plane of life but was on a higher plane of existence, the spirit nature. He could however take on human form and appear as a man in order to prove to the disciples that he was in fact risen. The same thing was done in the Old Testament (Genesis 18th and 19th chapter) when the angels and maybe even God, appeared to Abraham but they were not men, not human beings in their natural state. It could have even been God or Jesus as the "Word or Logos" because that’s similar to logo which means brand name or something which speaks for something. Hebrews 5:7 says, “who, in the days of His flesh…” this is referring to when Jesus was on earth as a human being from when he was a baby to the death on the cross. After His resurrection and ascension He is no longer a man and Hebrews 7:26 says He was made “higher than the heavens” that’s divinity and deity. 1st John says, referring to Jesus and the Father that this is the true God and eternal life. That’s divinity and deity.
The Logos is God, as Thomas stated: "My Lord and my God." ... The Logos is God active in creation, revelation, and redemption. Jesus Christ not only gives God's Word to us humans; he is the Word. The Logos is God, begotten and therefore distinguishable from the Father, but, being God, of the same substance (essence).
I lost My Good friend who believed their doctrines
Blessings Friend 🙏
I lost my best friend to them. Then, separately, one of my sisters and a nephew decided to disown me over my stand against the SDA.
Sad...
@@RandomTChance One would think that if your "dear ones" wanted to bring you back to their "Present Truth," they would not slam the door in you face. Good evangelical methodology ~ NOT.
@@cindiloowhoo1166 RIGHT! My sister called our Roman Catholic cousin to gripe about me is what's really funny.
I hang with my cousin on a regular basis and we have never had a problem over religion. He and I even go together to services at both our Churches. 🤷♂️
Seek Christ and His truth friend. You have nothing to fear over your good friends. They have chosen truth.
@@alllthatinacan Anyone that chooses Adventism is wrong, Juli. I have nothing to fear because I'm Saved by Grace through Faith. Jesus has given me Eternal Life.
In case you missed it Eternal Life is Eternal
Mathew 28;18, Jesus is given power. Philliapns 2;9 . Jesus is exalted. Why did He need exaltation?
Remember there will be a sifting prosess in the SDA church. It seems this has started to purify God's church. I am sorry that these people were never converted by the Holy Spirit.
Take note of the following verses in Genesis 16 and Zechariah 3, which show the angel of the LORD (Yahweh) speaking in the voice of Yahweh:
Zechariah 3:1 "1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. 2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?"
...
6 And the angel of the LORD protested unto Joshua, saying, 7 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk among these that stand by."
Genesis 16 "9 So the angel of the LORD told her, “Return to your mistress and submit to her authority.” 10 Then the angel added, “I will greatly multiply your offspring so that they will be too numerous to count.”
...
13So Hagar gave this name to the LORD who had spoken to her: “You are the God who sees me,d” for she said, “Here I have seen the One who sees me!”"
Notice the exact rebuke uttered by the angel of the LORD (who was himself Yahweh) in Zechariah 3:2 as Michael is said to have uttered in Jude 1:9.
Michael is _the_ (with the definite article) angel of the LORD, which is to say, the "messenger of Yahweh", which is pre-incarnate Jesus.
The Greek word for archangel, i.e. "archaggelos", does not necessarily mean that the one referred to is an angel (i.e. angelic creature like Gabriel). It literally means ruler of the angels.
Liés! We believe that Jesus is equal to the Father. Who made you judges?
1;49... You want us to consider explanations out of the Bible exept egw?😊
Definitely a deal breaker
1;50.. Michael is not just an angel but prince of peace
1 Timothy 5:21 ¶I charge you before God and the Lord Jesus Christ and the elect angels that you observe these things without prejudice, doing nothing with partiality.
Hmm, this scripture seems to differentiate between Jesus and the elect angels, which I assume to be arch angels? No?
Elect angels are those that did not fall.
Oh, another translation says "highest" angels. Anyway, I was making the point that if Jesus and the elect/highest angels are mentioned separately, then they are not one in the same.
Michael means "Who is like God?". It is a question, not a statement.
I confess this video was a bit of a gilding the Lilly for me. Not that I can't benefit from it, I'm sure I will pick up some useful nugget when I listen to the whole thing eventually from you or Sam. But what I'm saying is I already found that debate you did with your father's associate SDA pastor more than sufficient for framing the argument around this topic. When I combine your handling of the topic with my own education and experience of Biblical theology, I was able to write a pretty good piece on the topic for Facebook and message boards which I'm going to copy and paste bellow.
Satan as the Scapegoat
This Blogstyle post was written to explain to the Adventists that hung around one of my Facebook groups why Christians find their doctrine of the Scapegoat objectionable.
1) Animals in the Old Testament were supposed to be "without defect", foreshadowing and symbolizing Christ "being without sin". Satan does not fit this, only in his early days "as a ministering Cherub" before his Fall would he fit this. In his actual state, Satan is the antithesis of this important Biblical theological motif.
2)"The Divine Economy of Romans 5:12-21"
King James Version
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the [a]offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many [b]offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s [c]offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
This passage has been summarized by great saints like Gregory of Nazianus and Athanasius as "that which is not assumed is not healed"and"that which is not united to his Divinity is not saved."
(Post 2)
This is why the Adventist Scapegoat is considered so blasphemous by Christians. We see in the previous passage what is called an "Economia" (Economy). In the ancient world this term describes a way of doing things, it literally was used to describe something like a "mode of operations", of how you run your household. And I would argue the above is a lot of what the ancient Jewish sacrificial system was about had to do with this foreshadowing and symbolizing the transfer of sin by transposing of hands by the priest on the offering, to the one that needed the sin offering. It was noted by ancient Christians ages ago, for instance that the shape of the transposed hands looks a bit like a Greek Cross, or a X which in Greek would have been the letter Chi, which also stood for Christ, being the first letter of the Greek term Messiah, and also looking like a cross.
But back to the point, the ramifications of the doctrine is blasphemous when the Scapegoat's significance is considered from a larger perspective of things, namely those two above points and their ramifications, aka "What is not assumed is not saved" a law that God himself established in the Bible to point to Christ. Satan is definitely not without defect, nor did he assume our humanity to pay for our sin.
I think Adventists find the Scapegoat doctrine appealing because of the fact the goat ends up with the name of a Fallen Angel/ Demon in Jewish Tradition, and of course Satan gets wiped out in the end of the book of Revelation, and having this new insight come from a Revelation was the new hot thing, especially since it was a proof text for the Adventist doctrine of Annihilationism rather than Hell being Eternal. This I think is the real problem or issue, and most likely will not go away with this post but it is the real "Elephant in the room".
Closing
1) In closing, I will concede that in this heterodox teaching Adventists did stumble on an important point, the name of the Scape Goat and its significance. When it comes to types and anti-types in the Bible there is a lot going on, and I do find significance in the name of the goat but I believe that is symbolizing other stuff like the Fallen nature of Man, the robber Barabas that was released in place of Christ, even a foreshadowing of Christ, "being tempted in the Wilderness" a scene that somewhat has enacted out the scape goat literally and metaphorically.
2) And lastly, I will raise one point brought up by a Calvinist Theologian and Historian on this issue, that Adventists tend to miss. He claimed that somebody went out and followed the Scapegoat after it was released to make sure it did die eventually after a few days. While I have not found yet officially been able to confirm this fact (few people write on it and post their work to the internet), I do believe it based on study and common sense. 1) Because all other near eastern peoples had similar kind of rituals where that was the case, but more importantly 2) Because of the fact, that the wilderness of the region was a dry dessert, and a domestic farm animal like a goat, is not designed to deal with the lack of water like a camel, mountain goat or similar wilderness creature. But going back to typologies and their spiritual meanings, I do see some important meanings from this. Simply being temporarily pardoned for our trespasses and sins, is not enough. We will all will eventually die from them, to be free we need something, really somebody that can fix things permanently and not just put on a spiritual Band Aid (of simply covering our sin) and that person is Christ.
Very good 👏 I also see another problem that may or may not have been dealt with previously...? Can an angel be sacrificed for sin? 🤔 In the Gospel story, everything is visible: Jesus was born as a man, lived, died, resurrected, etc. - everything was visually verifiable by people living at the time... but an angel? This seems to be delving into the realm of fantasy & make-believe? How can anyone (human) verify that anything happened amongst the angels? Not to mention that the idea that angels would have anything to do with the permanent expiation of sin for all time... on an evil angel doomed to destruction?
@@kimartist I dealt with that later in the essay talking about the Divine Economy and a large chunk of Romans 5 and the quotes from Athanasius and Gregory of Nazianzus, "that which is not assumed cannot be healed/ that which is not assumed is not saved."
@@kimartist if I recall this kind of problem was raised before in western medieval Nominalist theology, where William Ockham suggested that God could have easily willed some other than Christ death on a cross, like a donkey doing no less. That is of course horrible theology.
Only one of the goats is the "Lord's goat," and it's not the scapegoat.
1:27:12 Sounds more like the SDA gospel is for god not humanity.
CAN AN ANGEL BE WORSHIPED?
mathew 28;18... I have been given authority in heaven..... By who?
Acts 2:17 (says all people)Ellen G W died 1815 how come no other prophet like Agbus in Acts11:27 they were two of them in church.
OFFICIAL TEACHINGS COME FROM SDA BELIEVES, NOT A SNAP INTO SOME SOURCE OUT OF CONTEXT.
Christ is not "one of" anything. Michael was not born in a manger.
Michael is a title for Christ. They are one and the same.
@@alllthatinacanMichael is a name, not a title. Every name that is given by God has a meaning. And if Michael is Jesus Christ then he’s also God, because God said He’s Jesus. Acts 9:5 “And he said, “Who are you, Lord?” And he said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.”
@@IjeomaMenkiti Yes, Jesus is God and one of His names / titles is Michael the Arch Angel. Michael means "who is like God." No one is like God except Jesus Christ. The NT says Jesus is the express image of God. He came to us to reveal the glory of God which is His unfathomable love shown in His great sacrifice in giving His life for us undeserving sinners.
@@alllthatinacan Is Jesus Christ “LIKE” God or IS HE God? Be careful how you answer that question.
@@IjeomaMenkiti He is exactly like God the Father.
2.38.. Voice of arch angel, not voice of angels. where do you get that the arch angel is the one who will speak on behalf of Jesus
God+Jesus+Michael..
Satan doctrine on Trinity..
Before attempting to teach others, you should first endeavor to educate yourself by learning basic biblical teachings.
Don't SDA pray to Jesus and accept Him as there personal savior? Are they not true christians?. I am just a little bit confussed 😊 And will they not come to heaven? I never heard about this. I hope someone will answer me. Thanks❤❤❤ Can somebody please answer me. Nobody says anything 😊
@@thomasolsen2780 Yes, even though SDA believe Michael is Jesus, SDA's only pray in the name of Jesus and accept, believe and teach that Jesus is our personal Lord and Savior.
If you listen carefully to what Myles and Sam have presented here you will have your question answered. Sdas believe in a lesser Jesus, one that is the same “substance “ of God, but lower than him.
G3413 Michael : an archangel
G734 archangel : a chief angel
Hebrews 1: 4-14 KJV
" Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time , thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee ? And again , I will be him a father, and he shall be to me a son? And again when he bringth in the firstbegotten into the world, he said, and let all the angels of God worship him " . . . . Who else would the angels be worshipping if it's not God the father?. Why would Michael and his angels be fighting against the dragon and his angels in Rev 12:7-9 ( this was when lucifer got kicked out of heaven ) So, it Couldn't have been Gabriel. . . If Michael isn't Christ , then who is it ? . Daniel 10:21 " But I will shew thee that which is noted in scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with in these things , but Michael your prince" Michael H4317 : who (is) like God ? Prince H8269 : a head person / captain, Ruler, chief . . .
this IS the type of Bible study that is so vital!!! GO TO THE HEBREW and compare! Yes!! This is how Adventism and all false teachings crumble.
Let God be true and man a liar. God's word never fails. Great video 🙌🏼
SDAs should learn heavily from this and start fact checking all SDA teachings in this way. This is what we started doing 3 years ago
Myles... We got to get you using Logos Bible Study software... Would be so smooth for this stuff!
I wonder if we could all chip in to help out. I would definitely donate for that!
Atleast anti-adventists agree that the word angel , sometimes refers to GOD. What they dont know is that Jesus is God
church existed before christ. name changed . Believers existed even christ came. Believed christ would come.
I believe if we love the Lord wholeheartedly, the truth through the Spirit will reveal the truth (John 16:13, 1 John 2:27) if we have ears to hear and not hearts of stone (Ezekiel 11:19-20) instead of just "refuting" something that we dont understand the basis of. Honestly this is not the Spirit of Christ but that of war, that of the devil because it only ends in those who believe to believe more but those who dont also just dont believe more so no one actually learns but it just builds a heart that is less likely to learn. I think we should just teach that which we believe is truth and by prayer the listener will fairly decide what they will believe. God bless the presenters for their work to spread truth, i just feel its too violent
"Is Jesus Michael the Archangel?" Yes!
No. Jesus is God, as is the Father and Holy Spirit.
2;42. whole thing is anti-egw campaign
Rev 12:7-10 The text says the dragon is Satan. Sam is asking why the text doesn't say that Michael is Jesus. Didn't you guys read vs 10!!!!!???? It clearly says that Now is come salvation and the power of his who? Christ! How clear do you want it to be. Don't you guys understand anything about context?!
Let me ask you guys a question, Myles and Sam, if i give you undeniable proof that Michael is Jesus will you be convinced or you will deny the verses like you do other scriptures given as evidence?
I will give you the evidence anyway.
Dan 12:1 says Michael, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people stands up and as a result, everyone written in the book is delivered? So Michael is delivering everyone. What does Psalm 27:4-5 say, He (The LORD) shall hide me in the time of trouble? To mean that he has to be the same person.
Isn't that undeniable proof or you will still try to explain it away because of your blinders?
“Your blinders”
The irony.
Obviously you didn’t listen.
"Undeniably evidence that Jesus is Micheal you say"
WOW.
Your evidence must be from your dènominations one ànd only Clear Word Bible then.
For not even drugs combined with sculptural twisting will give you your desired results from my Biblè.
@@answeringadventism hello brother Myles. You always say that Adventists have blinders of the great controversy theme when reading scripture. I honestly think that if you reject the great controversy theme you will always have blinders on. That's what I meant.
However what do you think about the proof I provided above that Michael is Jesus?
@@DefendingAdventism
The evidence you have provided that Micheal is Jesus is clear evidence that the vail is nicely intact in your case.
@@Marey-hw6wn that's not a refutation my brother/sister! You have to demonstrate.
I love watching your channel but all the adds are tiresome.
@@jessidarnell1660 can look into that. Some of it is TH-cam’s doing.
Isn't this what Jehovah's Witnesses believe?
@@carlose4314 correct. Not identical but both believe Michael is Jesus
22:15 Sam just called me a Satanic troll just for pointing out what Dr White, as well as so many other Christians, have said about the aggressive and un-Christlike behaviour Sam has shown over the years. It does not mean that what he says is not valid, it is the very aggressive rage filled delivery, including calling people Satanic trolls that is the issue. It has pushed myself and many others away from the very good messages Sam has delivered over the years. This is something we should have in mind when we consume hours of content, as this type of negative communication method is something that will affect us long term. Ken Ham, although his message might be valid, shows the same kind of behaviour. God bless you all
I agree, but Sam is worse than Ken.
@@darryldanzinger9996 I believe so, yes. But Ken can be awfully prickly and downright disrespectful. I am currently studying YEC vs OEC, due to Myles' recent video on the topic, and I have come across a debate between Dr Hugh Ross and Ken Ham. I had to turn it off, as Ken was actually making my blood boil even though I currently still hold to YEC and am testing it against OEC. I could not believe how calm and loving Dr Hugh Ross was at answering Ken's attacks on OEC with such scientific and biblical class, without ever losing patience or composure, and it clearly made me start to question the YEC position more. Lennox also has a very calm and Christian composure as it relates to this topic, and it definitely stands out against YEC apologists who seems to have a vitriol against anyone that does not hold their position. It really makes one think...
@@coachdanferreira I haven't watched a lot of Ken, But don't let someone's lack of composure determine your theology. Truth is truth no matter how it's delivered.
@@coachdanferreiraYes, it does make one think. YEC has become as cultic as the KJV Only sect.
🙏 Blessings
@@darryldanzinger9996 of course! I agree with you. It just made me think that the opposite position to mine might in fact be true. Usually when someone has to resort to ad hominem attacks (in the YEC and OEC debate it is usually about the other person's status of salvation and belief in God) and is clearly flustered and just lashes out, it is because that person is insecure about their theories, feels cornered, and doesn't want to have the inconsistencies exposed. It's a last resort effort to try winning.
SDA So Don't Attend
Most Excellent, @Neff511! Most Excellent, Indeed!
So what about the title, Son of Man, is he a created being?
Why don't you tell us what your goddess has to say on the subject?
Clearly he was created according to her. Ŕight?
It's one of Jesus's favorite titles. It him identifying with being a Man, just as the title The Son of God is identifies Jesus as being God.
In terms of rebuking Satan how do you interpret Zechariah 3 where it says Yahweh said to Satan "may Yahweh rebuke you"?
I know you probably won't reply to it because you have no answer.
We have no answer except we literally have an entire section on this in the video. Why do you tough guys comment but not listen?
@@answeringadventism
Have watched the video, didn't see any answer.
Thought that would be the response, minimize and brush aside.
Because Jesus is Yahweh. In new Testament John in the letters quotes old Testament verses about Yahweh and attributes them to Jesus
Myles is the goat 🐐
They'll see a word one place and another word other place. They run with thus word fallacy. Isaiah 27: 9- 13 talks about how the bible should be studied. And thats exactly what doug is doing. Precept upon Precept line upon line there a little here a little.
@@TokasaBulamaicake Isaiah 27 has nothing to do with how the Bible is to be studied.
@@answeringadventism Then explain wat is it about?
Can angels be worshipped ?😂🤣
Oh!?.. So are you guys now down to quote from the Book Of Enoch to make points? Cool! ...
So.. Then, WHO is "Azazel" from within there!? ; )
So you aren’t aware why Enoch was cited, obviously. It helps if you listen. Sam didn’t say that Enoch was canononical or every aspect infallible. He cited there because JUDE cited from there and Sam was showing that in JUDE (which is scripture) that Michael CAN’T be Jesus because JUDE (which is in scripture) didn’t believe Michael was Jesus.
Out of all of that spiritual meat fest, that’s the last ditch effort you have-that Enoch was cited to show what Jude was referring to.
Listen to learn next time and not for gotcha’s. We already know the extra biblical sources SDAs cite for their convoluted teachings-including the scapegoat.
@@answeringadventism ... Oh, i understand why it was cited.. I was listening...
Soo, it's "Ok" to cite The Book Of Enoch to try to reinforce what you assume Jude, may, or may not, have believed about either, or both, Michael and Jesus.. (even tho is still conjecture)? ...
But it's "not Ok", to cite that Same Book ( that Jude quoted from, whether every aspect infallible or not.. ) for the identification on who Azazel/the scapegoat, is?...
( Has it ever occurred to you, that both, You, & the SDA'S, could be wrong?? )...
@@ChrisTian-tz3eq You sound like you know what you are talking about.
What chapter and verse in First Enoch identifies Azazel as the scapegoat please?
@@thenowchurch6419 ... See: 1 Enoch 8 : 1 - 3.. & ..1 Enoch 9 : 6
Also Noteworthy is that there is just ONE goat for The LORD (YHWH), in Lev. 16 : 9 - 10..
Therefore, Azazel cannot BE "The LORD'S Goat" too... or they would BOTH be named "The LORD'S GOATS".
The Deutero-Canonical Books are not without merit. Have you read them, or just read about EGW's opinion of them
You are confused. 2;16.. You said Michael is God the father, again Michael is prince. Thought prince is son🤣😂
I’m a goat in training
Jesus was not that angel of Yahweh. Angels are God's ministers. God said to Israel : I am sending my angel ahead if you. My name is in Him, Listen to Him, He will not forgive you if you don't..
In the case of Abraham and Lot. Three visitors came to him. Two angels and Jesus. Jesus left and the two angels stayed to save Lot..
Jesus is not a created Being. He is God. God used his angels to minister unto humans
Satan has Angels, does that mean he is Jesus also. See the problem
This guys is terribly confused.
1;45.. you want us to look at other sources except the sources that the holyspirit tells us?🤣
🤣🤣🤣😂😂. Jesus coming down with borrowed voice of an arch angel.
😂😂😂. Anti-adventists think war erupted in after fall of man
1;40 you cant find exclussive passage saying Michael is God, you need inference. Yet you use same logic to say Michael is not Jesus😂
1 Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord him self shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:" KJV. There is a archangel there but it's not Jesus! so it might be Michael the archangel who is the one that see's The Lord Jesus Christ descending from Heaven, and has been given the instruction to shout when he see The Lord Jesus Christ starting to descend from Heaven! that the time has come! the return Of The Lord Jesus Christ back to earth! and the trump Of God! so Michael is not The Lord Jesus Christ! The Lord will return with a army! the sda are not Christians! they are lost! they need Jesus!
The same arch angel stands up and people rise. The same angel is called prince in Daniel? Thought prince is son of King. God the son
@@drluk1523 Jesus is God! the Creator! while angels are creation! made by God!
@@jrx2662 why is he standing up? Is an angel a prince?
The absent minded wordly professors
Not really following. But noticed a mistake. Lucifer is not the devil. Lucifer is a mistranslation that occured when scripture was written into Latin. Lucifer refers to the planet Venus, not Halil the fallen one from the Baal cycle that Isaiah was referring to .
From which "original language" phrase was "Lucifer" mistranslated, please. You are presenting information as "fact" with no verifiable documentation.
So the planet Venus walks, talks & has a personality as depicted in the Bible? Or was that a mistranslation also?
I think you need to check your history. Biblical history did not begin in the USA. it's history is based not in American concepts of English, but in historical middle eastern thinking. Lucifer only came into thinking during the Catholic attempts at canonization and interpretation. Thankfully modern translators have dropped the name, realising the mistake
Other ruling beings in heaven?😂. Michael is God? 54;26
You guys need some summary videos 3hr is a lot of time, sam lost all credibility when he became Catholic because anyone that really knows the Bible should easily see catacysim and Bible are pretty much opposite books.....what was Yahusha's name before coming down and after going back, i do not think any Bible quotes exist spelling it out exactly.
Being Catholic is being against sola scriptura.
Where did you get @SHAMOUNIAN is a Catholic? he is not a Catholic nor a Orthodox.
@coachdanferreira Yes, but even past that tradition out weighs Bible. If Bible says X and Tradition says Y, tradition wins in catolosism.
@@kgp4deathSame in Sda, JW, Mormons, Israelite, Muslims and etc. It’s a religion thing that God calls adultery & idolatry.
@Adam-N-Eve well a sola scriptura biblical protastant Bible is SUPPOSED To win always and TRADITION SHOULD go where it belongs in the trash. (Though most of the unbiblical tradition go back to catholic) IN Practice though sdas are probably the closest, but they forget the feasts and new moons in favor of pagan holidays. HEBREW ROOTS too are way off because they are looking for earthly massiah, earthly kingdom, earthly regathering.....I think you are right to stay out of the religions/denominations and just read your Bible.
Jesus cares about heart, not these details..u can know all theology, but no Jesus
Theology is literally the study of God. Yes, Jesus cares if you have the correct Jesus (Matthew 24:24). Jesus cares about your theology and what you believe about Him. “These details” are foundational, not tertiary.
Your heart has to be converted to the true God. You can’t just have good intentions. Muslims have good intentions, Buddhists have good intentions, that doesn’t mean they have peace with the true God for their sins against Him. What they believe matters.
@@answeringadventism Yes, but u can go nuts with studying all the years of theology and u never grow closer in personal relationship, Jesus didnt ask us to become pastors or theology experts, did he? We can have the knowledge that buffs us up, look how simple people where back in the day, they didnt have bible, they belived the GOSPEL, that is what matters. I mean how we know what SDA relationship with God have? Did ur relationship with God changed? How do you describe that? Didnt u have the fruits of the spirit when u were SDA? Didn't u have Gods presence, Holy Spirit in ur life? U know.. Iam not theologian , I do read bible, but I cant pull up scripture and debate them. But I do seek and talk to Jesus and its the most important thing, nothing matters more, bible is helpful.. But God sees your heart, we dont seek God from university .. I mean they can be the most dry belivers, they belive in bible yes, as the book, but they cant understand spiritual things, warfare, spiritual gifts, tongues, healing, casting out demons, and what is to be in communion with God. That can be the issue, And then those folks who end up in prisons, seek Jesus and will be spirit filled belivers with power from Lord.. Ohh thats amazing, but theology wont save us . Alltho I like to watch some of ur videos, it has to do my GF is 7 day adventist. And I dont want to attack her, I think she seeks truth, Jesus, she prays, iam sure one cant go wrong.
@@partlysimpson5154Myles looks way too young to have been a former SDA Pastor.
Both Myles and Sam said the souls don't sleep, their in another realm, I'd like to know what realm as noone is in heaven or hell prior to judgement day.
I agree with you we don't need to be theologians, God gives us the gift of discernment, the Holy Spirit reveals to us the truth.
Question is Christ a prince or a King?
both.
Was Simba 🦁a prince or a king 🤪
Why is the Prince of peace not called King of peace?
😂. You guys use the word CULT anytime you want to insult
Your petulant child emoji is pathetic. Adventists are not Christians- it’s a demonstrable fact. Adventists are religious cultists. If you are offended by the truth that’s on you. No one forced you to join a religious cult. You are a crybaby.
A long supposed rebuttal that makes less sense than dough. You two are wrong.
you guys are so blind its pointless using logics verse scripture who dan 12 :1 compare with acts 5:30-31 please read don't these myles and sam confuse a plain thus saith the LORD
Though I very much respect Myles and appreciate this channel, I have been given a hard time by some of my friends in ministry when I tell them to subscribe. “How could someone allow Sam on the platform. What a lack of discernment!” They say.
I can understand having Sam on, he is very good at exposing lies and telling the truth about cults, although I do believe he prays to Mary, which is ironic. I do like listening to his arguments and his amazing knowledge of the Bible and the Qur'an. However the fruits he bears are somewhat suspicious, at least from the person we see online. I do not know Sam personally, neither can I assume he is the same offline. However as you saw at minute 22:00 roughly, when I pointed out Dr James White had some strong words regarding Sam and I tend to agree, Sam, on live camera, called me a Satanic troll. Which just solidified my point. I left a comment few hours ago on this video explaining the context of my live comment, also saying that this isn't just one man's opinion, but also the opinion of many God fearing Christians, many of them pastors and elders. Sam has shown to struggle a lot with rage and foul language directed to anyone, including Christians, who might disagree with his positions. Calling them demon possessed, demons, Satanic trolls (my personal case) etc. In one phrase he will be praising God and asking for the presence of the Holy Spirit and seconds later hurl profanity and insults against fellow Christians that might disagree with his positions. It is very un-Christlike. I know we all have our sins, as all have fallen short, but there seems to be no desire to repent from his ways and apologise for his rude behaviour. And that is the issue. We are called to put away sin and repent of our sins, whatever they may be and how hard it may be to do so. I believe it has pushed not only myself, but many Christians as well, away from his channel.
Simple-one can still learn things from someone they disagree with on numerous things. The substance of what was presented is still true, nonetheless. But I know Sam isn’t for everyone and his style is not going to be received by all. But I’m not plugged in to all of the e-drama around individuals. We’re here to share information.
@@answeringadventism Yes I agree. The content is very helpful. It is just a shame that Sam lets the flesh take over so often when it comes to the delivery of the true message. It is definitely downright disrespectful to call anyone, much less a Christian, a satanic troll based on something that was said about a very obvious problem that has been pointed out by a hoard of very respected Christian leaders, most of them from the Reformed camp. Just watch 10min of Sam's apologetic content, whether it be directed Christians or Muslims, and you will see this is not a one off case. God bless you Myles, thank you for your ministry!
@@coachdanferreiraHe's a shock jock. 🤷♂️
@@RandomTChance Jesus had very strong words for the religious leaders, as we can see in Matthew 23. Paul also has very strong words against Judaizers. This behaviour, at least to me, seems different... It's not about rebuking errors in a calm way. It's about trying to win an argument and being petty when the other person doesn't agree with you. Calling fellow Christians demon possessed and satanic trolls is not something that should ever come out of the mouth of a professing Christian, except in cases of blasphemy against the name of Jesus and Lord Almighty.
😂😂. You are petty.. 2;18... Michael standing up causes dead to be raised. You guys keep shifting goal posts. You say we need to interpret scriptures correctly not just to win an argument. Its obvious when christ comes the dead will be raised
The removal of Moses’s sandals demonstrated the holiness of God’s presence. Moreover, the Angel gives His name as, “I AM WHO I AM.”
In Joshua 5:13-15 a man with a drawn sword is revealed to Joshua, the commander of the armies of Israel.
He replied, “Neither; but as commander of the army of the Lord I have now come.” And Joshua fell on his face to the earth and worshiped, and he said to him, “What do you command your servant, my lord?” (Joshua 15:14)
From the conversation, we discover that the man with the drawn sword is the commander of the army of heaven. Joshua was required to remove his sandals, like Moses. This tells us that the commander was divine. The commander of the hosts of heaven is one of the three persons of the Godhead. The three members of the Godhead are the only One’s worthy of worship.
Nehemiah 9:6 shows us that He is the Creator of heaven and the One who is worshiped by the armies of heaven. John 1:2, 3 tell us that it is Christ who is the Creator. In the battle that took place in heaven, the Commander of the armies of heaven in Revelation 12:7-9 appears under the name Michael. Michael and His angels prevailed over the dragon. From Joshua and the book of Nehemiah, we learn that Jesus is the Commander of the heavenly armies. Daniel 10:13, 21 present Michael as an important Commander and your prince. If He is our prince, we should know Him well. We should be very familiar with this person. However, because the Bible is full of the characteristics of Michael, under different names, we are trying to clarify the dilemma. All the attributes of the one who is called Michael lead us to the characteristics of the Lord Jesus Christ. He is the only who is involved in every event in heaven and on earth. We must pay careful attention to the identity of the One who is a part of the great battle that has shifted to this earth. In Jude 9, Michael is battling over the body of Moses. In Daniel 12:1 Michael takes a position to protect His people and brings salvation to those who are written in the book. Michael is described to us as a personality with a very important role. There are few details regarding His activity. However, if we compare the characteristics of Michael with those of the Lord Jesus Christ, we can clearly see that the Bible is speaking of the same person. He is the Creator. His creation, humans, were stolen from Him. He is the One who took the greatest responsibility in the salvation of humans. In Isaiah 47:4 He is the Lord of hosts and our Redeemer. He is the One who risked everything, no matter what it would cost, to recover His property: humans. In Daniel 7:13, 14 who is the One who comes with clouds? If we compare the verses that describe Michael and the verses that describe the Lord Jesus Christ, there is overlap, and the verses about Michael point us to the verses about Jesus Christ.
If you continue spam posting on videos, evidencing you didn’t even watch, you’ll be blocked. Thank you!
@answeringadventism how satanic you're
This they will never under standard until they humble themselves Matthew 13:41 the son of man will send out His angels Rev 12:7 Michael and His angels
Sorry but Michael the Archangel and Jesus are not the same person.
Jude verse 9 "9But even the archangel Michael, when he disputed with the devil over the body of Moses, did not presume to bring a slanderous charge against him, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”
😂😂😂. At the beginning, seems like reasonable argument, but usual ridiculous anti-adventists video