15:17 Just to clarify on the genders in Romanian, the neuter gender isn’t actually just a weird thing where a word acts masculine in the singular and then feminine in the plural just for the sake of it (or like what some people have called it a “false gender”), but an actual entirely separate third gender, that happens to look masculine in the singular and feminine in the plural because of its etymology in Latin. The Latin nominative masculine and neuter singular look the same usually (-us, -um), and the neuter plural usually ends in -a or -ora, which “sounds feminine”. This is inherited by Romanian with hypercorrection of the neuter plural ending to a “more plural-like” ending (which looks like the nominative feminine plural). There is also a plural ending that exclusively occurs in the neuter plural, -uri (from the Latin neuter plural -ora, as in tempora, pl. of tempus, or corpora, pl. of corpus, with a -i ending through hypercorrection to a “more plural sounding” ending), which to me consolidates this as a genuine third gender. Also would you consider Italian to actually have three genders? Even though it’s a limited number of words that have this feature, I mean it clearly follows the Latin neuter etymologically (it’s not a coincidence that this occurs in both Romanian and Italian in the same fashion), and the -a plural ending being a unique plural ending of this "possibly" third gender leans me to think that it is indeed a third gender altogether, relic of the Latin neuter that only survives in a limited list of words.
3:00 Hey, linguistics student here. I'll be the first to say this is not at all my area of expertise, but the Classical vs Vulgar Latin thing is rooted in a long-running linguistic debate that I’ll try to explain here. First, a note on terminology. Following the papers I’ve read, I’ll use Classical Latin to refer to the written standard and the spoken variety it is based on (of which there certainly must be one, probably spoken around the 8th century BCE). And I’ll use Vulgar Latin to refer to the spoken Latin of the Roman Empire, around the first millennium CE, which is the most recent common ancestor of the modern Romance languages. The crux of the debate is whether Classical Latin is a direct ancestor of Vulgar Latin or not. At first it’s not clear why this is a debate at all, so to explain, first some background. Linguists have developed methods to reconstruct the common ancestor of a group of languages, and applying these methods to the Romance languages gives a hypothetical, reconstructed ancestor called Proto-Romance. Now, language change can be weird, and we can’t account for everything, but our methods are good enough that Proto-Romance should be quite similar to the real common ancestor, Vulgar Latin. We don’t know enough about Vulgar Latin to compare the two, but what we can do is compare Proto-Romance to Classical Latin, and this shows that the two are somewhat different. Of course, some of these differences can be attributed to the natural process of language change, but some are quite atypical. For a (completely made-up) toy example, consider the H-sound, which is quite weak and therefore is commonly lost completely (as in real-life Latin). But suppose for a moment that words which don’t have an H in Classical Latin often do have one in our reconstructed Proto-Romance. An H appearing out of nowhere is quite unusual indeed, but if that’s what the evidence shows, there’s no choice but to accept it, right? Well, in his 1950 paper “The Reconstruction of Proto-Romance”, Robert Hall proposes an alternative explanation using similar (but admittedly less robust) data. He claims this is evidence that Classical Latin is not the direct ancestor of Proto-Romance/Vulgar Latin, and that they both go back to an even earlier common ancestor. Then, Classical Latin could have been based on one dialect, and Vulgar Latin descended from another. This neatly solves our problem because we can posit the H-sound being present in the common ancestor, being lost in the dialect Classical Latin is based on, and being retained in the dialect Vulgar Latin is descended from. Then we have the much more natural sound change of H disappearing rather than appearing. So as you can see, despite there being no evidence of this earlier common ancestor in the historical record, this argument is quite convincing. Now, there’s a couple common misconceptions about this view. For one, there’s no claim being made about how different Classical and Vulgar Latin were. In fact, we know that on the whole, Classical Latin and Proto-Romance are quite similar indeed, so Classical and Vulgar Latin were probably similar too. The only thing being argued is that Vulgar Latin is not a direct descendant of Classical Latin, that there was some lateral movement across the family tree. (For a modern example, imagine the Roman dialect becoming the spoken lingua franca of Italy, while the orthography, being more resistant to change, remains as is.) Second, at the time that it existed, Vulgar Latin would have been spoken by everyone in everyday life, and therefore would be each subsequent generation’s native language, regardless of social class. If people ever spoke Classical Latin, it would have been within educated circles, the same way intellectuals during the Renaissance may have spoken Latin with each other but certainly would have spoken their own languages with everyone else. The so-called “dialect split” view, that Classical Latin is not the direct ancestor of Vulgar Latin, was the majority view at least until the 90s and maybe later. But recently the consensus has shifted, with more recent work providing evidence for the opposite view, and explaining Hall’s data in other ways. Still, the dialect split view certainly cannot be dismissed out of hand.
At 10:25 he said he it the most powerful language, but also explained in what sense: Romanian speakers will learn other Romance languages faster that other Romance speakers learn Romanian. So it was not about sounding strong, or anything like that.
When other latin language speakers try to understand romanian every word they don't understand they think it's slavic because they are biased and have pre-conceived notions.
I learnt Romanian (once upon a time) and it was easy, because I could already speak Italian and quite a lot of vocab and grammar felt familiar. And because I speak a Slavic language natively, I could also understand the Slavic loanwords (although some are false friends). They also have some words of Hungarian and Turkish origin, which makes it harder to understand for western Romance speakers.
*Cool Sugestion:* Have you ever wondered how would be the italian language spoken in the Americas?We already know about the varieties of spanish/portuguese, mainly contrasting the european and american varieties because of colonization. Italy didn't colonize any country in America, but in fact, italian also has a variety spoken in Brazil, it's called "Talian". It's spoken in thesouthern most state of Brazil with more than 500K speakers, because of a large italian immigration to Brazil. So, it would be pretty interesting for you, Metatron, to react and tell us if it is very different from italian or not.Could you understand it? I'm curious to see!I recommend searching videos in italian, search something like this: "lingua veneta parlata in brasile" or "parlando talian"
3:00 My personal problem with the language chart isn't that it's wrong with Classical/Vulgar Latin...it's that the chart is wrong because it excludes the most important language level, while confusing "Vulgar Latin" with this level. It should go Latin > Proto-Romance Languages > Early Italian/French/Spanish...whatever. I think what people are calling "Vulgar Latin" was really the living spoken hybrid languages which were on a spectrum between Latin and the Proto-Romance depending on the person, location, and situation. But would have been different from the formal written Latin that they encountered. We don't talk about the Proto-Romance languages, only Latin and the Romance languages. So people needed to create a form of Latin in their minds that could transition into the Romance languages, but that's not what happened. Latin transitioned into the Proto-Romance languages, and then they transitioned into the Early Romance languages.
Powerful in the sense of vocabulary. Because common day to day Romanian has a lot of slavic, turkic, german and magyar borrowings and sometimes is not so easy to understand. But for romanians is easier because in formal/legal/literary/scientific romanian you have more romantic material common in french, italian, etc.
Romanian is actually the first foreign language İ learned autodidactically. There was unfortunately no Romanian course where İ lived, so İ attended a French course instead, and İ was blown away by how much my knowledge of Romanian helped İ in learning French.
First! Also you should check out his other videos. They are fun and educational. I recommend the Balkan and European stereotype videos and the travels he does here and there.
Our language is a mix of many other languages, we also kept a synonyms many words: for example: enemy=inamic(Romanian)= inimicus (latin) = duşman (Turkish) Come=vino (Romanian)= veni (latin) = haide (Turkish)
It was a continuous Romance languages last link. The extinct Dalmatian language was the link between Romanian and Italic languages See the video made by an Italian Dalmatian language ( the missing link)/ Romance languages So many similarities
I have 2 degrees. I studied everything from Physics to chemistry to anthropology. I lived in Romania for 7 years and Romanian language learning kicked my b*tt. I love the country and my best friend in the whole world is from there. I miss it terribly, but learning Romanian language? I totally hit the wall.
Having learned several languages over the years but only speaking English and some Japanese from childhood, nothing is more difficult for me than learning a gendered language. It's so hard to get because there is nothing specifically gendered about most nouns. It's something that is just "understood" by native speakers so you have to just "artificially" learn it through memorization basically. Even when I hear someone whose native language is a gendered language speak English they will sometimes substitute "it" for "he" or "she". That's how deeply entrenched the concept of gender is to native speakers of those languages. I would find it a very interesting study in how that even came about, and why so many languages that have long connections split between gender and genderless grammar. There are some "vestigial" artifacts of it in English which proves it came from gendered languages...but why and how did that disappear? Did people just decide things don't have a gender anymore?
No, it is not just "understood", it is learned, accepted as it is. Just like "el agua", "el aguila" in Spanish (Castilian) because they, at one point, decided that they don't like the article to end in "a" if the noun begins with an "a". Because it sounded too much like Italian, like Latin ;)
It is more so a case of diglossia than a register. Because standard Arabic is a language of religion, education and media. But the Arabic speaking people speak in dialects of Arabic ,which isn't the same as the Standard one.
17:00 it's the same in Spanish. Although it's usually the case that nouns that end in 'o' are masculine and 'a' feminine, there are a few words that end in 'a' that are masculine, and more rarely there are words that end in 'o' that are feminine. And of course, there are plenty of nouns that end in other letters like 'e', 'n', 'l', or 'r' and the gender is not always predictable for those. The ending of the noun does not always reflect the gender, but the article and adjective agreement nearly always do. Masculine is always 'un' and 'el', feminine is (nearly always) 'una' and 'la', except for in front of a stressed 'a'.
Loan words in Spanish tend to keep the grammatical gender that they have in their origin language for example problema from Greek is el problema and not la problema
Sardinian here I often put the verb at the end of the sentence and not only to emphasize what it’s been stated. There’s something about it that just feels right 😂 Great video as always!
6:10 There is a really nice article with many sources on Braahmam which summarizes the particularities or the Romanian language and its history. It's actually very interesting that a romanian could technically understand what a punjabi person says, since there are more than 2000 romanian words left in their language, some even unchanged. There are historical artefacts with written romanian that predate the Roman Empire, which is extremely interesting for where exactly did Romanian even come from. Unfortunately, nobody cares enough to find out the true origin. Whatever was found so far, indicates that Romanian developed side by side and at the same time with Latin, not from Latin.
Yeah there are quite a lot to say about my language it changed a lot in over 100 years, one of the changes was the use of the cyrillic alphabet that was a step then get rid of the majority of borrowed words establish somewhat of a grammar which hey it works , in some cases hearing romanian from an italian or any latin speacking country sounds right, oh and yeah I agree on the welsh flag kicks arse I live here, fun fact it's not that old I believe it was adopted by the end of the 50's.
I'm learning romanian right now hehe it's interesting how romanian picked different latin words for example to go is a merge from latin mergere which is only found in other romance languages in words such as sumergir sommergere etc. I'm learning it just because I want to be able to understand it and use it somehow.
Living Ironically in Europe is a great channel! You should react to some of his other videos. "Eastern European Stereotypes" is one of my favorites of his;
What about how the diagram is simplistic? All of these distinctions between Romance languages evolving separately along separate branches doesn't recognise how many of these languages exist along a spectrum as well as it is completely ignoring minority Romance languages that don't have official status. For example; Provençal, Galician, Catalan, Sicilian, Romansch, etc.
I think when he said ,,romanian is the most powerfull language, he wanted to say that knowing it gives you the ability to learn other romance languages easier
I'm just gonna say it, Italians, I'm sorry for you but the Spanish flag is the most Roman flag, not just for the colors, but also because it has latin in the coat of arms, "plvs vltra" it used to be "non plvs vltra" but it was changed after they financed the most famous Genovese man in history Cristóforo Colombo or Cristobal Colón for my Queen Isabel La Católica. Also because is the one country who actually tries to rebuild the Roman province of Hispania, the French are Franks who mixed with Gauls and learn their twisted Latin, Italy is a new country based on the same geographical region that once was the heart of the Empire but it looks like no one cares anymore about it. And Spain managed to continue the Imperial tradition of expansion and civilization.
I think Spanish speakers are the ones at the most disadvantage when learning other romance languages cause Spanish is so unbelievably distilled and simplified. The most simple of all romance languages. I dare someone to find an easier one
The red color represents the bravery and the sacrifice of the romanian soldiers in war time for their country The yellow color represents the natural richness of the country The blue color represents the HOPE and the faith ( belief ) in a better future.
It helps to be able to read everything, for a start. Timişoara has German, Hungarian, Serbian speakers, along with the Banat Bulgars, and a few Ukrainians and Croats from centuries ago. On top of that, English is taught in schools. So, at grandma's place, out in the street, and business. There are a few monoglots here and there. One more point 👉 Aromanian, Istro-Romanian, and Megleno-Romanian. So, it's not " the only Romance language, although tge Balkans are not " Eastern Europe ". Dagestan is in Eastern Europe.
If you take a written technical text, it would be easy for you to understand. However, the spoken language is harder, because of the way we place our accents on words, the articles placed after the word etc
@mimisor66 I'm pseudo-Romanian and it has too much Slavic in it. 89% of French vocabulary is present in Italian, about 82% for Spanish, 77% for Romanian. As someone who's proficient in French and knows a fair bit of Italian and speaks Romanian at an almost native level, I can tell you Romanian is the black sheep of the modern Romance languages. Ironically, in some ways, it's closest to Latin.
Vlach is also an Eastern Romance language, so is Istriot (variety of Dalmatian hanging on by a frayed thread, not quite the extinct language that Vegliot is).
One thing about Romanian is that if you nail plain pronounciation and reading you can completely butcher the grammar and people will still understand what you meant. We've got plenty of regional dialects and we don't necessarily speak in a grammatically correct manner.
Had a Romanian colleague who every day was like "You know what is the best cheese?" and I would reply "Let me guess, Romanian?", "Yes! Romanian cheese is the best!", "Do you know what is the best...". Insufferable.
to be fair the classical and vulgar distinction happens because by the time medeval romance languages were fully developed, the clergy and such were still using classical latin and well french isnt latin is it
As I was saying in my post...I think there's a missing link that we don't like to talk about which causes most people to not understand the evolution of the languages correctly. I personally believe that what people call "Vulgar Latin," is actually the Proto-Romance languages. Most people don't understand that the Romance languages didn't technically evolve from the Latin itself, they evolved from the Proto-Romance languages which evolved from Latin. These spoken languages WOULD have been hybrids existing on a spectrum between Latin and Proto-Romance; causing a spoken language that would have had a similar but different grammar, pronunciation, and vocabulary (depending of the person, location and situation) compared to the formal written language that was still using Classical Latin. Instead of accepting the existence of a transitional group of languages between Latin and the Romance languages...they created a form of Latin itself that was transitional.
@ I completely agree, a lot of linguists and linguist based TH-camrs are making that shift from “vulgar Latin” to “proto-romance ” for this very reason as well as the modern negative connotation to the word “vulgar” as Proto romance was not less of a language than classical just a more common one. But as the time period of coexistence was so large it necessitates some distinction in nomenclature in my opinion. And also who’s too say historians in the future won’t separate legalese English with the current casual dialect especially as they both stray further and further away from each other. But that’s just speculation on my part jaja.
'it isn't vulgar latin' vulgar means of the people and what it really means is a pidgin. btw i can't see what i'm typign cause youtube's comment box is broken. 'it is nonsense and people keep repeating it' so people keep saying there was loan words, then some changes, and then they became different languages. and your rebuttle is?
Too bad you didn't react to the demonstratives part of the video. In any case, Living Ironically in Europe is from Serbia and his native language is Serbo-Croatian.
@@jeffslote9671 I love his videos because he touches on the Balkan sense of humor and certain outlook on life that I can see in my own family, even though they emmigrated from Croatia to the US in the 1900s.
I was really interested in seeing you react to all the odd gramatical oddities and linguistic rules that he brought up in his video, after watching your one trying to learn Romanian, so really disappointed that you skipped the entire bulk of the content of the video, the part that was actually speaking about the language, after just complaining about unrelated stuff in the video for several minutes 😭 if you're going to skip through the video I wish you'd at least skip past intros and rambling, and do the reaction to some of the actual relevant content, at least, otherwise what's even the point?
You should have watched the whole video, I am romanian and I agree he makes a good point. The thing about romanian language is that a romance language with slavic influencess that in the XIX-th century romanian scholars and intellectuals "artificially" modified it with french influences to make it more latin like, to claim a stronger connection to our latin roots.
I kind of have a doubt about this claim. Several reasons: - Many of the words borrowed from French were words used for new concepts, related to democracy, diplomacy, culture. The same way Romanian took German words during the industrial revolution (especially for mechanical engineering), and now from English (especially management, IT) - Many slavic words were used related to the feudal system and religion. They just feel out of use, not replaced - Even now the Romanian academy has little power to force the language to go a certain way. So to claim that some individuals decided to do that 200 years ago, and did it, in 3 different kingdoms, sounds a bit too much. So I think it was more a natural process of borrowing from "whatever was hot" at the time. And the French revolution made the language "hot" for anything social. Last, take "Scrisoarea lui Neacșu din Câmpulung" (1521). Written in old Slavonic alphabet, but if you transliterate to Latin it is readable. 175 words out of 190 are of Latin origin. And 1521 was way before the XIX century, when that "cleanup" supposedly happened. Shouldn't it be more Slavic there?
3:00 "Vulgar" Latin is the problem. It has never been a language, nor a dialect, it is just an umbrella term for those people who don't want to acknowledge the existence of a dialect continuum during the Roman Empire (both Western and Eastern) from Portus Cale to Tomis. I also hate it. To call it "vulgar" is basically an insult to me, just another vulgar/bulgar(?) barbarian whose ancestors had to learn the language of their conquerors. Also "Classical Latin" should be the first one in the tree. "Living Ironically in Europe" is done by Janos, who is a Hungarian with a Serbian citizenship, or a Serbian citizen with a Hungarian mothership... mother tongue.
As I was saying in my post...I think there's a missing link that we don't like to talk about which causes most people to not understand the evolution of the languages correctly. I personally believe that what people call "Vulgar Latin," is actually the Proto-Romance languages. Most people don't understand that the Romance languages didn't technically evolve from the Latin itself, they evolved from the Proto-Romance languages which evolved from Latin. These spoken languages WOULD have been hybrids existing on a spectrum between Latin and Proto-Romance; causing a spoken language that would have had a similar but different grammar, pronunciation, and vocabulary (depending of the person, location and situation) compared to the formal written language that was still using Classical Latin. Instead of accepting the existence of a transitional group of languages between Latin and the Romance languages...they created a form of Latin itself that was transitional.
@@unarealtaragionevole There is no such thing as a "Proto-Romance" language. You might instead say Proto-Latin language and good luck with that! Let me guess...it originated in Dacia 3000 years ago? 😵
every italian i saw in Romania,unless he/she moved here as a kid or in their teens,they speak romanian like crap. I met 2 months ago an old man from Veneto,who is living in Romania since 1990,married a romanian woman,and still speaks romanian like crap. My ex girlfriend's uncles is also italian,again living here for at least 20 years,still struggles with the language,and his wife is romanian... While we go to Italy,Spain,France,whatever and learn the language pretty fast.
Daa, romanii invata foarte bine limba tarii in care se muta :)) Sunt romani care traiesc de peste 20 de ani in alta tara si inca nu vorbesc bine limba tarii respective.
I see you don't hold vexillology to the same standards as other things... details impossible to reproduce mirrored or by a child strictly and which can't be easily identified from afar go against good flag design, just so you know. Shields are the worse in that regard. That kid is not looking at a dumb terminal, it's from a computer advertisement.
07:08 Actually is quite the opposite. Romanian is the second most difficult language to learn in the world, despite being a phonetic language and using a latin alphabet. You'll learn pretty fast the pronunciation and vocabulary, but no further. The way the words are combined and variety of meanings of almost every word it's a jungle from you can't escape. Edit: What you need to understand is the following: Romanian is not part of the Latin languages, it is a distinct language that is closely related to Latin (same roots), enough so that Latin and Romanian (actually modern dacian) speakers can understand each other. Moreover, only in Dacia, the representatives of Rome did not need a translator, and that was before the Roman Empire conquered a small part of the Dacian kingdom.
Aromanian is the ancient Macedonian language, the real Macedonian language. And yes, it is part of the Romanian language. What you need to understand is the following: Romanian is not part of the Latin languages, it is a distinct language that is closely related to Latin, enough so that Latin and Romanian speakers can understand each other. Moreover, only in Dacia, the representatives of Rome did not need a translator, and that was before the Roman Empire conquered a small part of the Dacian kingdom.
Why would I learn Romanian? I'm never going to Rome
😂
OMFG cannot belive u typed that 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Maybe you wanna go to Chisinau
You could visit the town of Roman 😂
@@mimisor66visit the amazing Pit of Roman, climb it's dozen stairs! lol
15:17 Just to clarify on the genders in Romanian, the neuter gender isn’t actually just a weird thing where a word acts masculine in the singular and then feminine in the plural just for the sake of it (or like what some people have called it a “false gender”), but an actual entirely separate third gender, that happens to look masculine in the singular and feminine in the plural because of its etymology in Latin. The Latin nominative masculine and neuter singular look the same usually (-us, -um), and the neuter plural usually ends in -a or -ora, which “sounds feminine”. This is inherited by Romanian with hypercorrection of the neuter plural ending to a “more plural-like” ending (which looks like the nominative feminine plural). There is also a plural ending that exclusively occurs in the neuter plural, -uri (from the Latin neuter plural -ora, as in tempora, pl. of tempus, or corpora, pl. of corpus, with a -i ending through hypercorrection to a “more plural sounding” ending), which to me consolidates this as a genuine third gender.
Also would you consider Italian to actually have three genders? Even though it’s a limited number of words that have this feature, I mean it clearly follows the Latin neuter etymologically (it’s not a coincidence that this occurs in both Romanian and Italian in the same fashion), and the -a plural ending being a unique plural ending of this "possibly" third gender leans me to think that it is indeed a third gender altogether, relic of the Latin neuter that only survives in a limited list of words.
3:00 Hey, linguistics student here. I'll be the first to say this is not at all my area of expertise, but the Classical vs Vulgar Latin thing is rooted in a long-running linguistic debate that I’ll try to explain here.
First, a note on terminology. Following the papers I’ve read, I’ll use Classical Latin to refer to the written standard and the spoken variety it is based on (of which there certainly must be one, probably spoken around the 8th century BCE). And I’ll use Vulgar Latin to refer to the spoken Latin of the Roman Empire, around the first millennium CE, which is the most recent common ancestor of the modern Romance languages.
The crux of the debate is whether Classical Latin is a direct ancestor of Vulgar Latin or not. At first it’s not clear why this is a debate at all, so to explain, first some background. Linguists have developed methods to reconstruct the common ancestor of a group of languages, and applying these methods to the Romance languages gives a hypothetical, reconstructed ancestor called Proto-Romance. Now, language change can be weird, and we can’t account for everything, but our methods are good enough that Proto-Romance should be quite similar to the real common ancestor, Vulgar Latin. We don’t know enough about Vulgar Latin to compare the two, but what we can do is compare Proto-Romance to Classical Latin, and this shows that the two are somewhat different. Of course, some of these differences can be attributed to the natural process of language change, but some are quite atypical. For a (completely made-up) toy example, consider the H-sound, which is quite weak and therefore is commonly lost completely (as in real-life Latin). But suppose for a moment that words which don’t have an H in Classical Latin often do have one in our reconstructed Proto-Romance. An H appearing out of nowhere is quite unusual indeed, but if that’s what the evidence shows, there’s no choice but to accept it, right? Well, in his 1950 paper “The Reconstruction of Proto-Romance”, Robert Hall proposes an alternative explanation using similar (but admittedly less robust) data. He claims this is evidence that Classical Latin is not the direct ancestor of Proto-Romance/Vulgar Latin, and that they both go back to an even earlier common ancestor. Then, Classical Latin could have been based on one dialect, and Vulgar Latin descended from another. This neatly solves our problem because we can posit the H-sound being present in the common ancestor, being lost in the dialect Classical Latin is based on, and being retained in the dialect Vulgar Latin is descended from. Then we have the much more natural sound change of H disappearing rather than appearing. So as you can see, despite there being no evidence of this earlier common ancestor in the historical record, this argument is quite convincing.
Now, there’s a couple common misconceptions about this view. For one, there’s no claim being made about how different Classical and Vulgar Latin were. In fact, we know that on the whole, Classical Latin and Proto-Romance are quite similar indeed, so Classical and Vulgar Latin were probably similar too. The only thing being argued is that Vulgar Latin is not a direct descendant of Classical Latin, that there was some lateral movement across the family tree. (For a modern example, imagine the Roman dialect becoming the spoken lingua franca of Italy, while the orthography, being more resistant to change, remains as is.) Second, at the time that it existed, Vulgar Latin would have been spoken by everyone in everyday life, and therefore would be each subsequent generation’s native language, regardless of social class. If people ever spoke Classical Latin, it would have been within educated circles, the same way intellectuals during the Renaissance may have spoken Latin with each other but certainly would have spoken their own languages with everyone else.
The so-called “dialect split” view, that Classical Latin is not the direct ancestor of Vulgar Latin, was the majority view at least until the 90s and maybe later. But recently the consensus has shifted, with more recent work providing evidence for the opposite view, and explaining Hall’s data in other ways. Still, the dialect split view certainly cannot be dismissed out of hand.
Mulțumesc pentru acest comentariu. Este foarte plăcut pentru mine să văd pasiune și acuratețe într-o chestiune lingvistică.
At 10:25 he said he it the most powerful language, but also explained in what sense: Romanian speakers will learn other Romance languages faster that other Romance speakers learn Romanian.
So it was not about sounding strong, or anything like that.
Oh, a crossover episode from my top youtubers, love it! ☺️
When other latin language speakers try to understand romanian every word they don't understand they think it's slavic because they are biased and have pre-conceived notions.
Let's see:
Rabdare
Pedeapsa
Sprijinul
I just assume they are Slavic or Albanian or Turkish or Greek and move along.
Living Ironically In Europe Is a great channel. His history videos are amazing
I 100% agree!
I learnt Romanian (once upon a time) and it was easy, because I could already speak Italian and quite a lot of vocab and grammar felt familiar. And because I speak a Slavic language natively, I could also understand the Slavic loanwords (although some are false friends). They also have some words of Hungarian and Turkish origin, which makes it harder to understand for western Romance speakers.
*Cool Sugestion:*
Have you ever wondered how would be the italian language spoken in the Americas?We already know about the varieties of spanish/portuguese, mainly contrasting the european and american varieties because of colonization. Italy didn't colonize any country in America, but in fact, italian also has a variety spoken in Brazil, it's called "Talian". It's spoken in thesouthern most state of Brazil with more than 500K speakers, because of a large italian immigration to Brazil. So, it would be pretty interesting for you, Metatron, to react and tell us if it is very different from italian or not.Could you understand it? I'm curious to see!I recommend searching videos in italian, search something like this: "lingua veneta parlata in brasile" or "parlando talian"
There is a Venetian dialect spoken in Mexico called Chipileño still spoken by a few thousand people. It’s been in Mexico since the mid 19th century
There's a language called Talian in Brazil spoken by hundreds of thousands of people. It's basically 80% or more Venetian.
3:00 My personal problem with the language chart isn't that it's wrong with Classical/Vulgar Latin...it's that the chart is wrong because it excludes the most important language level, while confusing "Vulgar Latin" with this level. It should go Latin > Proto-Romance Languages > Early Italian/French/Spanish...whatever. I think what people are calling "Vulgar Latin" was really the living spoken hybrid languages which were on a spectrum between Latin and the Proto-Romance depending on the person, location, and situation. But would have been different from the formal written Latin that they encountered. We don't talk about the Proto-Romance languages, only Latin and the Romance languages. So people needed to create a form of Latin in their minds that could transition into the Romance languages, but that's not what happened. Latin transitioned into the Proto-Romance languages, and then they transitioned into the Early Romance languages.
19:15 He is a serbian who allso speaks hungarian.
Powerful in the sense of vocabulary. Because common day to day Romanian has a lot of slavic, turkic, german and magyar borrowings and sometimes is not so easy to understand. But for romanians is easier because in formal/legal/literary/scientific romanian you have more romantic material common in french, italian, etc.
Living Ironically in Europe channel is a fun one. Ironically he learned Hungarian quite well tho. :)
He is ethnically Hungarian😂
@@mimisor66 I think he is Bulgarian.
@@mannen659Janos? He is an ethnic Hungarian from Serbia. I have been following him. And his name is a big giveaway😂
Watch his dna test video. He is a bosnian serb. @@mimisor66
Romanian is actually the first foreign language İ learned autodidactically.
There was unfortunately no Romanian course where İ lived, so İ attended a French course instead, and İ was blown away by how much my knowledge of Romanian helped İ in learning French.
He's a Hungarian living in Romania, finding reasons not to learn Romanian is a traditional thing.
He is a serbian guy currently living in Romania. Does pretty good quality videos.
The crazy part is that Metatron has less of an accent when trying to learn Romanian than him.
First! Also you should check out his other videos. They are fun and educational. I recommend the Balkan and European stereotype videos and the travels he does here and there.
Our language is a mix of many other languages, we also kept a synonyms many words: for example: enemy=inamic(Romanian)= inimicus (latin) = duşman (Turkish)
Come=vino (Romanian)= veni (latin) = haide (Turkish)
Come= vini (Louisiana Creole)
Haide is more like an interjection, meaning come ! Not a verb
@@mimisor66nah, you just need to be brave enough 😂
"S-a haiduit să inventeze un exemplu stupid."
Eee Zee
Querido amigo ( as they say in Iberia), your monologue about Classical Latin vs. Vulgar Latin was brilliant
Greetings from Romania
It was a continuous Romance languages last link.
The extinct Dalmatian language was the link between Romanian and Italic languages
See the video made by an Italian
Dalmatian language ( the missing link)/ Romance languages
So many similarities
Romanian ,,scut" but articulated ,,scutul" comon used ,,scutu' " . Sounds like Sicilian right? :P (He is from Serbia)
I have 2 degrees. I studied everything from Physics to chemistry to anthropology. I lived in Romania for 7 years and Romanian language learning kicked my b*tt. I love the country and my best friend in the whole world is from there. I miss it terribly, but learning Romanian language? I totally hit the wall.
@@ivorybow what is your native language?
Having learned several languages over the years but only speaking English and some Japanese from childhood, nothing is more difficult for me than learning a gendered language. It's so hard to get because there is nothing specifically gendered about most nouns. It's something that is just "understood" by native speakers so you have to just "artificially" learn it through memorization basically. Even when I hear someone whose native language is a gendered language speak English they will sometimes substitute "it" for "he" or "she". That's how deeply entrenched the concept of gender is to native speakers of those languages.
I would find it a very interesting study in how that even came about, and why so many languages that have long connections split between gender and genderless grammar. There are some "vestigial" artifacts of it in English which proves it came from gendered languages...but why and how did that disappear? Did people just decide things don't have a gender anymore?
No, it is not just "understood", it is learned, accepted as it is. Just like "el agua", "el aguila" in Spanish (Castilian) because they, at one point, decided that they don't like the article to end in "a" if the noun begins with an "a". Because it sounded too much like Italian, like Latin ;)
Since you like the Welsh flag how about Welsh as the next language video? Uwu
What about Modern Standard Arabic?? Is it a separate language or just a formal register or something else??
It is more so a case of diglossia than a register. Because standard Arabic is a language of religion, education and media. But the Arabic speaking people speak in dialects of Arabic ,which isn't the same as the Standard one.
17:00 it's the same in Spanish. Although it's usually the case that nouns that end in 'o' are masculine and 'a' feminine, there are a few words that end in 'a' that are masculine, and more rarely there are words that end in 'o' that are feminine. And of course, there are plenty of nouns that end in other letters like 'e', 'n', 'l', or 'r' and the gender is not always predictable for those. The ending of the noun does not always reflect the gender, but the article and adjective agreement nearly always do. Masculine is always 'un' and 'el', feminine is (nearly always) 'una' and 'la', except for in front of a stressed 'a'.
Loan words in Spanish tend to keep the grammatical gender that they have in their origin language for example problema from Greek is el problema and not la problema
"I am from Bosnia
Take me to America
I really want to see
Statue of Liberty
I CANNOT LONGER WAIT
TAKE ME TO UNITED STATES"
Sardinian here
I often put the verb at the end of the sentence and not only to emphasize what it’s been stated. There’s something about it that just feels right 😂
Great video as always!
6:10 There is a really nice article with many sources on Braahmam which summarizes the particularities or the Romanian language and its history.
It's actually very interesting that a romanian could technically understand what a punjabi person says, since there are more than 2000 romanian words left in their language, some even unchanged. There are historical artefacts with written romanian that predate the Roman Empire, which is extremely interesting for where exactly did Romanian even come from.
Unfortunately, nobody cares enough to find out the true origin. Whatever was found so far, indicates that Romanian developed side by side and at the same time with Latin, not from Latin.
Yeah there are quite a lot to say about my language it changed a lot in over 100 years, one of the changes was the use of the cyrillic alphabet that was a step then get rid of the majority of borrowed words establish somewhat of a grammar which hey it works , in some cases hearing romanian from an italian or any latin speacking country sounds right, oh and yeah I agree on the welsh flag kicks arse I live here, fun fact it's not that old I believe it was adopted by the end of the 50's.
I'm learning romanian right now hehe it's interesting how romanian picked different latin words for example to go is a merge from latin mergere which is only found in other romance languages in words such as sumergir sommergere etc.
I'm learning it just because I want to be able to understand it and use it somehow.
Living Ironically in Europe is a great channel! You should react to some of his other videos. "Eastern European Stereotypes" is one of my favorites of his;
What about how the diagram is simplistic? All of these distinctions between Romance languages evolving separately along separate branches doesn't recognise how many of these languages exist along a spectrum as well as it is completely ignoring minority Romance languages that don't have official status. For example; Provençal, Galician, Catalan, Sicilian, Romansch, etc.
I think when he said ,,romanian is the most powerfull language, he wanted to say that knowing it gives you the ability to learn other romance languages easier
I'm just gonna say it, Italians, I'm sorry for you but the Spanish flag is the most Roman flag, not just for the colors, but also because it has latin in the coat of arms, "plvs vltra" it used to be "non plvs vltra" but it was changed after they financed the most famous Genovese man in history Cristóforo Colombo or Cristobal Colón for my Queen Isabel La Católica. Also because is the one country who actually tries to rebuild the Roman province of Hispania, the French are Franks who mixed with Gauls and learn their twisted Latin, Italy is a new country based on the same geographical region that once was the heart of the Empire but it looks like no one cares anymore about it. And Spain managed to continue the Imperial tradition of expansion and civilization.
Excelente video!!!
you do have two types of English as well, the king's english (formally the queen's english) and american english, creoles also exist
I think Spanish speakers are the ones at the most disadvantage when learning other romance languages cause Spanish is so unbelievably distilled and simplified. The most simple of all romance languages. I dare someone to find an easier one
The red color represents the bravery and the sacrifice of the romanian soldiers in war time for their country
The yellow color represents the natural richness of the country
The blue color represents the HOPE and the faith ( belief ) in a better future.
15:26 Cool colour matching of Ceas with LIVE and Ceasuri with ON AIR.
It helps to be able to read everything, for a start. Timişoara has German, Hungarian, Serbian speakers, along with the Banat Bulgars, and a few Ukrainians and Croats from centuries ago. On top of that, English is taught in schools. So, at grandma's place, out in the street, and business. There are a few monoglots here and there. One more point 👉 Aromanian, Istro-Romanian, and Megleno-Romanian. So, it's not " the only Romance language, although tge Balkans are not " Eastern Europe ". Dagestan is in Eastern Europe.
Review the Irish Language, Metatron. I think it will blow your mind.
I concur!
@@GholaTleilaxu A fellow lover of Dune?
Ah... Irish, the language of kings.
Romanian is the most similar to italian, so as an italian its very easy to learn. But as a british its a lot different.
Pretty sure French and Spanish are closer.
If you take a written technical text, it would be easy for you to understand. However, the spoken language is harder, because of the way we place our accents on words, the articles placed after the word etc
@mimisor66 I'm pseudo-Romanian and it has too much Slavic in it. 89% of French vocabulary is present in Italian, about 82% for Spanish, 77% for Romanian. As someone who's proficient in French and knows a fair bit of Italian and speaks Romanian at an almost native level, I can tell you Romanian is the black sheep of the modern Romance languages. Ironically, in some ways, it's closest to Latin.
2:01 had an identity crisis - i'm 28.1% Greek and South Italian
Vlach is also an Eastern Romance language, so is Istriot (variety of Dalmatian hanging on by a frayed thread, not quite the extinct language that Vegliot is).
15:20 taking from portuguese Id say maybe some occupations that end in "ente". we don't call it neutral, but it kind is the same
9:02 the republic ditched the white. The monarcic flag is much more beautiful than the republican one and it was white and clear blue.
One thing about Romanian is that if you nail plain pronounciation and reading you can completely butcher the grammar and people will still understand what you meant. We've got plenty of regional dialects and we don't necessarily speak in a grammatically correct manner.
so i am a Romanian what is wrong with my language Metatron? why shouldn't I have learned it from birth? 😥
"Even though Australia doesn't exist...." oh boy that is a rabbit hole you do not wanna go into 😂
From a friend who speaks American Spanish he says that Romanian is very close to American Spanish.
Had a Romanian colleague who every day was like "You know what is the best cheese?" and I would reply "Let me guess, Romanian?", "Yes! Romanian cheese is the best!", "Do you know what is the best...". Insufferable.
We hate those guys in Romania to ... but he was right about the chees :D
The Mexican flag has a crown on it? Not a cactus eagle and snake?
to be fair the classical and vulgar distinction happens because by the time medeval romance languages were fully developed, the clergy and such were still using classical latin and well french isnt latin is it
As I was saying in my post...I think there's a missing link that we don't like to talk about which causes most people to not understand the evolution of the languages correctly. I personally believe that what people call "Vulgar Latin," is actually the Proto-Romance languages. Most people don't understand that the Romance languages didn't technically evolve from the Latin itself, they evolved from the Proto-Romance languages which evolved from Latin. These spoken languages WOULD have been hybrids existing on a spectrum between Latin and Proto-Romance; causing a spoken language that would have had a similar but different grammar, pronunciation, and vocabulary (depending of the person, location and situation) compared to the formal written language that was still using Classical Latin. Instead of accepting the existence of a transitional group of languages between Latin and the Romance languages...they created a form of Latin itself that was transitional.
@ I completely agree, a lot of linguists and linguist based TH-camrs are making that shift from “vulgar Latin” to “proto-romance ” for this very reason as well as the modern negative connotation to the word “vulgar” as Proto romance was not less of a language than classical just a more common one. But as the time period of coexistence was so large it necessitates some distinction in nomenclature in my opinion. And also who’s too say historians in the future won’t separate legalese English with the current casual dialect especially as they both stray further and further away from each other. But that’s just speculation on my part jaja.
'it isn't vulgar latin'
vulgar means of the people and what it really means is a pidgin.
btw i can't see what i'm typign cause youtube's comment box is broken.
'it is nonsense and people keep repeating it'
so people keep saying there was loan words, then some changes, and then they became different languages. and your rebuttle is?
Well... I'm going to learn it anyway!
Kentum/Satem groups of IE, so Romanian is what if they use Slavic words as well ? :)
10:22 same for Italian scelto, chiudere and many others are not easy for English- speaking dudes (just ask an American to pronounce maraschino)
LOL, well we had some better flags in the past, including the "hashtag" one, it was pretty cool. But right now the military flags are the best ones
The Romanian flag reminds me of the Soka Gakkai flag.
Too bad you didn't react to the demonstratives part of the video. In any case, Living Ironically in Europe is from Serbia and his native language is Serbo-Croatian.
slavic reaction to România
Learn Hungarian ...
The Albanian flag is badass
He's Serbian. His videos on the Balkans and its history are hilarious.
Technically he’s Bosnian who thought he was a Serb
@jeffslote9671 The DNA test?
@@Unpainted_Huffhines Yes
@@jeffslote9671 I love his videos because he touches on the Balkan sense of humor and certain outlook on life that I can see in my own family, even though they emmigrated from Croatia to the US in the 1900s.
@@jeffslote9671all Serbs are just Bosnians that think they’re Serbs
There is only Latin!
Mano, a faixa de áudio em português não está bom, melhor no áudio original :P
I was really interested in seeing you react to all the odd gramatical oddities and linguistic rules that he brought up in his video, after watching your one trying to learn Romanian, so really disappointed that you skipped the entire bulk of the content of the video, the part that was actually speaking about the language, after just complaining about unrelated stuff in the video for several minutes 😭 if you're going to skip through the video I wish you'd at least skip past intros and rambling, and do the reaction to some of the actual relevant content, at least, otherwise what's even the point?
Exactly. The part of the video he reviewed is barely an appetiser, and feels unsatisfying
Lol yeah, we are quite like Southern Italians, maybe some of the most welcoming in EU
You should have watched the whole video, I am romanian and I agree he makes a good point. The thing about romanian language is that a romance language with slavic influencess that in the XIX-th century romanian scholars and intellectuals "artificially" modified it with french influences to make it more latin like, to claim a stronger connection to our latin roots.
I kind of have a doubt about this claim.
Several reasons:
- Many of the words borrowed from French were words used for new concepts, related to democracy, diplomacy, culture. The same way Romanian took German words during the industrial revolution (especially for mechanical engineering), and now from English (especially management, IT)
- Many slavic words were used related to the feudal system and religion. They just feel out of use, not replaced
- Even now the Romanian academy has little power to force the language to go a certain way. So to claim that some individuals decided to do that 200 years ago, and did it, in 3 different kingdoms, sounds a bit too much.
So I think it was more a natural process of borrowing from "whatever was hot" at the time. And the French revolution made the language "hot" for anything social.
Last, take "Scrisoarea lui Neacșu din Câmpulung" (1521). Written in old Slavonic alphabet, but if you transliterate to Latin it is readable. 175 words out of 190 are of Latin origin.
And 1521 was way before the XIX century, when that "cleanup" supposedly happened.
Shouldn't it be more Slavic there?
In Romanian "Scut"
He is Serbian!!! But his DNA test shows he is Bosnian!!!
Isn't Italian part of Eastern Romance?
3:00 "Vulgar" Latin is the problem. It has never been a language, nor a dialect, it is just an umbrella term for those people who don't want to acknowledge the existence of a dialect continuum during the Roman Empire (both Western and Eastern) from Portus Cale to Tomis. I also hate it. To call it "vulgar" is basically an insult to me, just another vulgar/bulgar(?) barbarian whose ancestors had to learn the language of their conquerors. Also "Classical Latin" should be the first one in the tree.
"Living Ironically in Europe" is done by Janos, who is a Hungarian with a Serbian citizenship, or a Serbian citizen with a Hungarian mothership... mother tongue.
As I was saying in my post...I think there's a missing link that we don't like to talk about which causes most people to not understand the evolution of the languages correctly. I personally believe that what people call "Vulgar Latin," is actually the Proto-Romance languages. Most people don't understand that the Romance languages didn't technically evolve from the Latin itself, they evolved from the Proto-Romance languages which evolved from Latin. These spoken languages WOULD have been hybrids existing on a spectrum between Latin and Proto-Romance; causing a spoken language that would have had a similar but different grammar, pronunciation, and vocabulary (depending of the person, location and situation) compared to the formal written language that was still using Classical Latin. Instead of accepting the existence of a transitional group of languages between Latin and the Romance languages...they created a form of Latin itself that was transitional.
@@unarealtaragionevole There is no such thing as a "Proto-Romance" language. You might instead say Proto-Latin language and good luck with that! Let me guess...it originated in Dacia 3000 years ago? 😵
they use gender in Spanish as well, el coche for example
Don't say vulgar latin out loud or Metatron will come to get you
scutum (shield) is scut in Romanian
and for a figurative use "mai scutește-mă..." means something in the spirit of "bishplease...", "shield me from your ignorance/stupidity/etc."
Metatron j'espère que ton apprentissage de la langue française va très bien.
Ha detto Australia non esisto?
This is day 12 of commenting on every new video until he does Cajun French and Louisiana Creole.
2:58 "VULGAR" LATIN!
The Metatron strikes again
Every strike the Metatron does is like a mângâiere from Dumnezeu.
He's a Serb.
I think that Channel is ran by a Serb but not sure. I know for a fact he is a Slav so that is why he has difficult time with Romanian I guess.
Romanias flag was much different during communism but we changed it to get away from the commies
every italian i saw in Romania,unless he/she moved here as a kid or in their teens,they speak romanian like crap. I met 2 months ago an old man from Veneto,who is living in Romania since 1990,married a romanian woman,and still speaks romanian like crap. My ex girlfriend's uncles is also italian,again living here for at least 20 years,still struggles with the language,and his wife is romanian... While we go to Italy,Spain,France,whatever and learn the language pretty fast.
Do you know why the Italian "uncle" didn't bother to learn perfect Romanian? Because he didn't need to.
Daa, romanii invata foarte bine limba tarii in care se muta :))
Sunt romani care traiesc de peste 20 de ani in alta tara si inca nu vorbesc bine limba tarii respective.
Ypu shpuld react to latin in the band powerwolf!
He's Serbian
The slav influence is not as big as you might think Meta. And this is rather annoying, as the Dacian/Thracian gets forgotten.
I see you don't hold vexillology to the same standards as other things... details impossible to reproduce mirrored or by a child strictly and which can't be easily identified from afar go against good flag design, just so you know. Shields are the worse in that regard.
That kid is not looking at a dumb terminal, it's from a computer advertisement.
How make the video is a Hungary person😅
Living ironicly in europe is serbian but mostly has bosnian dna so yeah thats balkans for you😂
not only is he Serb with Bosnian DNA, his name is Hungarian (Janos) and he's now living in Romania. THAT is Balkans for you :)
07:08 Actually is quite the opposite. Romanian is the second most difficult language to learn in the world, despite being a phonetic language and using a latin alphabet. You'll learn pretty fast the pronunciation and vocabulary, but no further. The way the words are combined and variety of meanings of almost every word it's a jungle from you can't escape.
Edit: What you need to understand is the following: Romanian is not part of the Latin languages, it is a distinct language that is closely related to Latin (same roots), enough so that Latin and Romanian (actually modern dacian) speakers can understand each other. Moreover, only in Dacia, the representatives of Rome did not need a translator, and that was before the Roman Empire conquered a small part of the Dacian kingdom.
un ou, doua oua same as Italian
As of powerful language, well yeah. The rest do sound ehm... Soft.
In romanian is scutul
Romanian has a lot of slavic influence just like French has a lot of Germanic influence
It depends… the more south you go the higher the greek influence is. If you consider Aromanian part of the Romanian language
Aromanian is the ancient Macedonian language, the real Macedonian language. And yes, it is part of the Romanian language.
What you need to understand is the following: Romanian is not part of the Latin languages, it is a distinct language that is closely related to Latin, enough so that Latin and Romanian speakers can understand each other. Moreover, only in Dacia, the representatives of Rome did not need a translator, and that was before the Roman Empire conquered a small part of the Dacian kingdom.
tf ta em português