Joe's rant on the Dark Hour (2:34:00) is understandable and sort of extends to my biggest issue with P3 as a whole. Many parts of the main narrative feel undercooked, like the writers had some conceptually neat ideas but didn't really know how to expand upon them beyond a surface level. This is especially apparent later on with a few of the antagonists. It's not really a dealbreaker for me but I get the frustration. When I think back to why I like P3 as much as I do, it's always the writing of the main cast and the late game vibes. Anything else involving the core narrative is just whatever.
I think they ran out of time since Persona 3 had a short development cycle so a lot of things got scraped, in Reload they are trying to do a faithful remake so they can't change the writing (and their big writers was working on Metaphor, so they can only do a faithful remake). You may say Persona 4 had a shorter dev time, yes but they already have core gameplay foundations and lessons from Persona 3, bigger budget and they hired a lot of people, they can focus on actual content and writing of the game that time around.
I think consistency with the lore is something Atlus has a really bad problem with overall. The Dark Hour, TV World, and Mementos, all have MASSIVE inconsistencies and plot holes, like Joe says. I think they were kinda smart with P5 though, because “collective unconscious and feelings warp reality or whatever” makes everything *really* easy to hand wave away, even if it is a bit lame. I’m curious if they’ll do something similar in P6, or actually force themselves to be more consistent.
I agree and disagree. In a way Persona 3 is a fruit of low budget and ambitious development, coupled with early 2000 video game writing. Despite this I do think Persona 3 has the best writing plotwise. It has certain point it wants to hit, it does make you, the player, ask some pretty interesting question, and it doesn't treat you like a child. A proper remake could've easily fixed the troubled development of the original P3. The shadows have control over time and space so make it very obvious that during the Dark Hour, time actually does stop and then resumes. Instead of having the train sequence happen with the train powering on, have the shadow actually vidibly take control of the train. Instead of fuuka's moon operation taking place in the same tartarus floor, have it take place on a very unique floor with unique visuals, etc etc. This is why P3Reloaded I think is so disliked. Because at least in P3's case you could make an exception for its many flaws because it was a very old game with a troubled development and the first one in its genre. The highs of P3 are also so very much well earned that it's hard not to wish for a version of the game that actually brings P3's ambitions to reality.
@@Androidersistalthough its not directly stated the dark hour and the tv world are both also the collective unconscious. The lore of why it exists is actually first explained in P3.
I understand his rant however what i don't understand is how he doesn't get why they used the gym to go into tartarus. Tartarus is a distorted tower that shapes and molds itself using the school and its surroundings. They used the gym to try and reach fuuka even tho its dangerous since when the dark hour begins the gym can turn into whatever. Even the characters spoke about that and were afraid of what might happened since they don't fully comprehend tartarus yet. The chatter was rude but unfortunately they had a point. So many inconsistencies to point out and joe chooses the one that isn't one? Welp Anyway
Piglet like Winnie the Pooh piglet I am genuinely curious what you like about her? I kind of feel bad for her, the player has to nurse her emotions and reassure her that she's ok and that she's not a burden
I like her but she's not a very "likable" type of character. She has a lot of flaws and doesn't have any immediate adorable trait about her, she's mostly just timid and scared all the time which are not things people like in a lover.
@@lowpolyzoe I really like her as a person- she’s shy, insecure, and doing her best to handle her emotions and overcome her social anxiety. Plus, I just love her VA As for her SL, it’s nothing special so far. It feels rushed and bland, but honestly, that goes for most of the SLs in the game. I don’t hate any of them (except the leg guy one) and I love that they’re voiced but every SL feels kind of bland with stretched-out content.
Streamers and their main character syndrome, name a more iconic duo. People give a little pushback instead of joining in when he tries to dunk on the game, and he gets salty like a baby. 😅
He wasn't dunking on the game though? He asked a question and someone was unnecessarily rude about him not paying attention. Plus it's not like everyone jumped along with joe if you read chat you can see many chatters and mods explaining to him.
@@2B_Evergarden Yes, I'm referring to the part where he thinks that they entered Tartarus the normal way when it was clearly 2 teams from 2 different entry points. He just drops the issue without really acknowledging what his chat is saying. You can clearly tell he is still hung up about it before he starts his Ben Shaprio-esque rant about his perceived inconsistencies of the dark hour. Also, come on man. A big part of his shtick is ridiculing these games for their shit and/or stereotypical writing that you get in (shonen) anime, even if he's just joking. It's no skin off my back, but sometimes you gotto hold an L.
Your point might be applicable generally but to be honest Joe has one of the most combatative chats out there, largely cultivated by his own personality. We fight with him at least once in practically every major series, the accusation that nobody pushes back doesn't hold much water here
@@nanashi7779 What? My entire point is that Joe does get a lot of pushback here, but he still doesn't concede because only his opinion matters to him. Everybody else is obviously just a seething p3 fanboy. edit: Fyi, the video has minor edits which makes him look better here than he does in the raw vod.
@@psygnosis7218 It seemed to him that they just ended up on a normal floor of the Tartarus they could have reached normally. It did look like that. Those floors looked like any other. He was just confused about that.
Akihito’s fate in this playthrough is KILLING ME
Joe is a blind man
Clock clutch will come soon
Akihiko dead 🗿 level 14 he remains 🗿 Mitsusu gone to bed 🗿 absolutely zero gains 🗿
He can still recover if joe uses exp clock on him
Joe's rant on the Dark Hour (2:34:00) is understandable and sort of extends to my biggest issue with P3 as a whole. Many parts of the main narrative feel undercooked, like the writers had some conceptually neat ideas but didn't really know how to expand upon them beyond a surface level. This is especially apparent later on with a few of the antagonists.
It's not really a dealbreaker for me but I get the frustration. When I think back to why I like P3 as much as I do, it's always the writing of the main cast and the late game vibes. Anything else involving the core narrative is just whatever.
I think they ran out of time since Persona 3 had a short development cycle so a lot of things got scraped, in Reload they are trying to do a faithful remake so they can't change the writing (and their big writers was working on Metaphor, so they can only do a faithful remake).
You may say Persona 4 had a shorter dev time, yes but they already have core gameplay foundations and lessons from Persona 3, bigger budget and they hired a lot of people, they can focus on actual content and writing of the game that time around.
I think consistency with the lore is something Atlus has a really bad problem with overall.
The Dark Hour, TV World, and Mementos, all have MASSIVE inconsistencies and plot holes, like Joe says.
I think they were kinda smart with P5 though, because “collective unconscious and feelings warp reality or whatever” makes everything *really* easy to hand wave away, even if it is a bit lame.
I’m curious if they’ll do something similar in P6, or actually force themselves to be more consistent.
I agree and disagree. In a way Persona 3 is a fruit of low budget and ambitious development, coupled with early 2000 video game writing.
Despite this I do think Persona 3 has the best writing plotwise. It has certain point it wants to hit, it does make you, the player, ask some pretty interesting question, and it doesn't treat you like a child.
A proper remake could've easily fixed the troubled development of the original P3. The shadows have control over time and space so make it very obvious that during the Dark Hour, time actually does stop and then resumes. Instead of having the train sequence happen with the train powering on, have the shadow actually vidibly take control of the train. Instead of fuuka's moon operation taking place in the same tartarus floor, have it take place on a very unique floor with unique visuals, etc etc.
This is why P3Reloaded I think is so disliked. Because at least in P3's case you could make an exception for its many flaws because it was a very old game with a troubled development and the first one in its genre. The highs of P3 are also so very much well earned that it's hard not to wish for a version of the game that actually brings P3's ambitions to reality.
@@Androidersistalthough its not directly stated the dark hour and the tv world are both also the collective unconscious. The lore of why it exists is actually first explained in P3.
I understand his rant however what i don't understand is how he doesn't get why they used the gym to go into tartarus. Tartarus is a distorted tower that shapes and molds itself using the school and its surroundings. They used the gym to try and reach fuuka even tho its dangerous since when the dark hour begins the gym can turn into whatever. Even the characters spoke about that and were afraid of what might happened since they don't fully comprehend tartarus yet. The chatter was rude but unfortunately they had a point. So many inconsistencies to point out and joe chooses the one that isn't one? Welp Anyway
perfect timing, i just finished stream three and am already three streams behind : (
It is completely okay to go at your own pace, no harm in not seeing it live :).
That just means you have more banger content waiting for you.
Nothing wrong with enjoying at your own pace
@@2B_Evergarden this guy gets it.
@@2B_Evergarden jphChad vodboy grindset
For whatever reason my twitch keeps failing to play vods so these are a godsend
perfect timing, i have an interesting fact to share. i’ll share it on the next vod.
Booooooooo should've done it now
i'll be waiting
@@ssomp... in my swimsuit
@@ssomp In your swimsuit?
Best noise of 2025 potential: 3:06:44
tysm for posting these, especially so consistently!! 🫶
2:25:00 they went in the same way she iris to rescue her as fast as possible, i don@5 know what the confusion is?
Odagiri talks like Napoleon dynamite. I've never not heard it.
59:29 characters development
Don't get the chihiro hate honestly?
She's good and nowhere near as bad as chat's making it out to be.
plus why did joe called her piglet
Piglet like Winnie the Pooh piglet
I am genuinely curious what you like about her? I kind of feel bad for her, the player has to nurse her emotions and reassure her that she's ok and that she's not a burden
She's totally harmless. Chat's just loud about a lot of their bad opinions
I like her but she's not a very "likable" type of character. She has a lot of flaws and doesn't have any immediate adorable trait about her, she's mostly just timid and scared all the time which are not things people like in a lover.
@@lowpolyzoe I really like her as a person- she’s shy, insecure, and doing her best to handle her emotions and overcome her social anxiety. Plus, I just love her VA
As for her SL, it’s nothing special so far. It feels rushed and bland, but honestly, that goes for most of the SLs in the game.
I don’t hate any of them (except the leg guy one) and I love that they’re voiced but every SL feels kind of bland with stretched-out content.
joe shittin on hats a lot for someone talking about finasteride a couple streams ago
Luv u
thirst
Streamers and their main character syndrome, name a more iconic duo. People give a little pushback instead of joining in when he tries to dunk on the game, and he gets salty like a baby. 😅
He wasn't dunking on the game though?
He asked a question and someone was unnecessarily rude about him not paying attention.
Plus it's not like everyone jumped along with joe if you read chat you can see many chatters and mods explaining to him.
@@2B_Evergarden
Yes, I'm referring to the part where he thinks that they entered Tartarus the normal way when it was clearly 2 teams from 2 different entry points. He just drops the issue without really acknowledging what his chat is saying. You can clearly tell he is still hung up about it before he starts his Ben Shaprio-esque rant about his perceived inconsistencies of the dark hour.
Also, come on man. A big part of his shtick is ridiculing these games for their shit and/or stereotypical writing that you get in (shonen) anime, even if he's just joking. It's no skin off my back, but sometimes you gotto hold an L.
Your point might be applicable generally but to be honest Joe has one of the most combatative chats out there, largely cultivated by his own personality. We fight with him at least once in practically every major series, the accusation that nobody pushes back doesn't hold much water here
@@nanashi7779 What? My entire point is that Joe does get a lot of pushback here, but he still doesn't concede because only his opinion matters to him. Everybody else is obviously just a seething p3 fanboy.
edit: Fyi, the video has minor edits which makes him look better here than he does in the raw vod.
@@psygnosis7218 It seemed to him that they just ended up on a normal floor of the Tartarus they could have reached normally. It did look like that. Those floors looked like any other. He was just confused about that.