All Things Buffers!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ก.ค. 2024
- Hey folks! Today, the Rig Doctor is getting deep into buffer territory. We're talking all things buffers in this video! If you have any questions about buffers, ask them in the comments below!
RIG DR. APPROVED MATERIALS & ACCESSORIES:
//buffers//
Bonafide Buffer - amzn.to/2PoIzJQ
Empress Buffer - amzn.to/2Vowzw6
Mesa High Wire -bit.ly/32rlNX5
Mesa Boogie High-Wire (dual buffer) - bit.ly/2lZwS0s
Suhr Buffer (output buffer only) - amzn.to/2NJpzUQ
//pedalboard tools//
Soldering Iron - amzn.to/2GFQ5Nc
Solder (60/40) - amzn.to/2U7XhsD
Solder Dispenser - amzn.to/2GpgMpR
Octopus Arms - amzn.to/2V3O8OD
Wire Strippers (30-20 AWG) - amzn.to/2BBMI6n
Wire Strippers (20-10 AWG) - amzn.to/2EbhBR3
Wire Snips - amzn.to/2EazwqU
Vise - amzn.to/2E9eTLO
Heat Gun (embossing gun) - amzn.to/2BwGdlm
Label Maker - amzn.to/2BCBcHU
Label Maker Tape (black) - amzn.to/2Cd3CZe
Label Maker Tape (clear) - amzn.to/34piDD4
Deoxit D5 Contact Cleaner - amzn.to/2GEm4gu
Truetone Milliamp (mA) Reader - amzn.to/2F9v3VN
Tone Brush - amzn.to/2HIfze3
Upholstery Crow Bar - amzn.to/2HIOU0K
Multimeter - amzn.to/2YW9BdE
Goo Gone - amzn.to/31rGJeS
//pedalboards, lifts, risers, bridges//
Pedalboard Surfaces - gomc.tv
Pedal Risers/Lifts/Bridges - fixpedalboards.com
//dc power cables//
2.1mm DC Power Plugs (right angle) - bit.ly/2pGqXzI
2.1mm DC Power Plugs (straight) - bit.ly/36wd1sA
Voodoo Lab Power Cable (bulk cable) - amzn.to/2HILpXY
//patch cables//
Mogami 2319 (bulk cable) - amzn.to/2HIZ7dm
SquarePlugs SP500 (pancake) - bit.ly/32m63mU
SquarePlugs SPS5 (straight) - bit.ly/34qiajW
//midi//
MIDI Plugs (right angle)- bit.ly/2oKHDFG
MIDI Plugs (straight) - bit.ly/32fNNLF
MIDI Cable (bulk) - amzn.to/2tPAHWQ
//velcro//
3M Dual Lock SJ3550 (for pedal) - amzn.to/2TP1rlu
3M Dual Lock SJ3551 (for base) - amzn.to/2I8a7SG
//cable management//
Zip Ties - amzn.to/2HP1Ulv
Tie Down Mounts - amzn.to/2r5ZkAN
//power supplies//
Truetone CS12 - amzn.to/2FaKxZC
Truetone CS7 - amzn.to/2EZMCX7
Truetone CS6 - amzn.to/2Cj3TtUCIOKS
CIOKS DC10 - amzn.to/34bzRTU
CIOKS DC8 - amzn.to/345JFyH
CIOKS DC7 - amzn.to/2E7gZLs
CIOKS DC5 - amzn.to/2Pw4UVo
#PedalboardBuffers #Pedalboards #RigDoctor - ภาพยนตร์และแอนิเมชัน
![[TH] Esports World Cup : Knockout Stage Day 2](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/sP-b00j1C58/mqdefault.jpg)
Literally spent the last few days debating if I should put my little black buffer back in the chain. Took it out for a while because I don’t know why honestly lol for a while I didn’t bother whether it was needed or not. Did the good ol’ A/B test - guitar & cable only to amp, and guitar + board to amp. Needless to say, as soon as I heard the difference I couldn’t wait to get that black box linked up to the rest of my board. It sounds great again 🤙🏼🤙🏼
Best channel on the tube.. every episode i gain tons of educational information
Thanks for explaining this! I always wondered what the heck these things do. Might need to add this to my rig at some point :)
🥰🥰🥰
Your videos are very informative, I really appreciate your efforts.
I appreciate that!
Man, I've seen this buffer discussion since I started playing guitar and no one ever could explain what the buffers did and where you needed to put them or how many. THANK YOU
Gonzalo Szechter glad that helped!
Fantastic video thank you, very informative!!
Anytime! Let us know if you have any additional questions!
Again this video is great. And more concise. I’m chasing buffers tonight.
Glad it was helpful!
Great info thanks
thx a lot man very informative 👍
No problem 👍
havent figured it out yet but i use a page as an always on pedal and probly put a buffer at the end of chain but i usually have my board on top of my amp so ive got an idea of a board that is just a remote switcher all it does is turn on and off the pedals remotely and the board is on top o the amp i can help out with shirts also
This was very informative, thank you! Just one question. So if I run a compressor first in stage that is always on, it’s basically pointless to put a buffer before it? I generally have around eight pedals total with an average of four on constantly. Last pedal is a bigsky. I have a single buffer, it would be best right at the end then probably?
Great video! I have one question though. What if I'm going direct from the pedalboard to the mixer through a cabinet simulator (cabzeus), would I still need a buffer on the output? Thanks!
Alright Alright Alright, Groovy info for sure. It's like, Buffer the Vampire Slayer. Cool.
Hi Mason...huge fan and subscriber! I have some boss pedals OC-5 and DD-200 that have some tone suck when bypassed but I love them otherwise. If I use a Mesa High Wire would it cure that? Or should I just use a loop switcher (gigrig qmx4)
Thank you!!
You're welcome!
Hey Mason! Awesome content as usual. I can't thank you enough for sharing all of your knowledge and such great content. I am building a new board and plan on soldering all my cables and have learned so much from your channel. I feel like this is going to be the first professional level board I have created and I've been playin for 20+ years. Question: What are your thoughts on the Goodwood Interfacer from a buffer point of view? From the site it looks like the output is 500 ohms...is that correct and how will that affect my tone?
Our pleasure! It's a bit high for my liking. 100 ohms is ideal, this is about 5x higher than recommended and won't be as stable on the output with greater capacitive loads.
What about The Humdinger from The Gig Rig? It's a splitter with a built in buffer which they at least claim is a "1:1 class A buffer".
I know I need a buffer at the end of the chain but what about the buffer on the Boss TU-2 for the input? At what point is a dedicated buffer needed if most/all of the pedals in the chain are true bypass?
Hey Mason, I'm plugging my bass straight into an always-on VPM-1 Volume Pedal (an active VP JR mod). It has a 1M ohm input and a ~1k output. Should I be running a high-quality input buffer before or after this pedal? Thank you!
Ideally you should have a buffer first and last in your chain with as much true bypass in between. For your bass, depending on the amp, the input impedance is also usually quite a bit higher. We just did a video on Bass Pedalboard Rig basics last week you should check out where we talk about this.
Thank you for all your informative videos, very educational & appreciated! You have devoted a lot of time on buffers, which I understand as a priority. However, there is one factor you have never discussed at all... How a wireless impacts the pedalboard for input buffer and tone suck. My understanding is all wireless outputs are buffered, however, as always, not all created equal! I am a bass player over 40 years, and I do not actually use any effects pedals at all. My original setup was an old Samson VHF full diversity wireless system going into a Boss TU-3. Recently got a Shure GLXD-16 system which has an amazing tuner built in, so now that's all I use. I notice a substantial change in my sound for the better. Better frequency response & cleaner articulation of the notes. Can you please do a detailed video on wireless systems and how they impact input buffer as well as tone suck would be appreciated. All the best & thanks again.
We've covered it in some of our videos. Wireless units are your input buffer, but usually I say to still put a separate input buffer for when you got corded or the wireless fails.
@@VertexEffectsInc I just wanted to double check, when referring to wireless. Are we talking about the inexpensive receiver and transmitter devices, as well as ‘traditional’ wireless systems a lot of professionals use.
I use a Line-6 G10 relay (wireless). Obviously, that comes first.
What I found is that the wireless G10 is a buffer/boost (OK, that's me talking). In effect, I guess I am posing this as a question.
I have no interest is losing my G10 (in other words, I am not going back to cable).
I have a 20 foot (maybe 25 foot) guitar cable, and this cable cuts out high frequencies (that's me talking again). The problem with this cable is the micro-phonics.
I did an A/B between my G10 and the long instrument cable and I stumbled upon my conclusion that the G10 is a buffer/boost.
I guess I'm looking for feedback/thoughts, as I have not heard anyone out there in the youtube signal chain discussion land talking about the G10.
Wireless units are low impedance so that satisfies the need for an input buffer. You'd still need an output buffer however.
Thanks for the video!
I understood that 1M ohm input impedance is perfect for the buffer.
Would like to clarify if 5M ohm for the Input Impedance would be ok or it’s to much and it does effect the sound?
Thanks
Hi Mason! Thanks for all your video, i' m nerding so much during this quarantine!! I was checking the Empress+ buffer specs, and it says 510 ohm of output impedance, and it seems to me that this feature goes against your suggestion of keeping it around 100 ohm, so would you actually still suggest the Empress buffer as a good neutral one? The thing is that one would like to ideally have two buffers, like you often say, therefore I am looking around to buy a double one, and empress seems one of the only good quality/price. Thank you so much!!!!!!!
I mistakenly looked at the specs of the stereo version, and presume that the mono version would be the same, it looks like it is not. I would look at the Mesa Boogie Highwire as an alternative dual buffer.
Hi Mason. Thanks for your videos. I have your boost on one of my boards and love it! Excellent to use with a volume pedal.
Do you know if the providence system tuner could be used as a dual buffer pedal like the mess boogie highwire? Does it have an output buffer too? TIA!
Not sure if it's a dual buffer or just one.
The Empress is 510 ohms on its output Mason. The Carl Martin buffer is spot on at 100 ohms output and 1 meg.
The Empress Stereo buffer is 100 ohm, I think I quoted that and didn't check that the mono version was the same. The Carl Martin is also good and is added to our more recent lists of recommended buffers.
I checked the specs on the Carl Martin and the output 1 is actually 600 ohms and the output 2 is 100 ohms. I’m curious if 500 ohms of the empress is really a big deal compared to the high wire.
Is it best practice to have a buffer for your effects loop too? Or is that dangerous for the amp? The Long lines of cable are what makes me ask
Hi mason, i have bonafide buffer, i can ear a noticeable difference whenever i have a pedal turned on with buffer before, and between having the same pedal on, but without the buffer being on. It's contradict the statement that buffer effective only whenever every pedal turned off.
Also what is batter, two high quality buffers, or top end cables (mogami overdrive) for all cables ( 4 cables method and all patch cables) that are very short ( 4 cable method length is 1.3m for every cable - i play at home and don't need long cables..)
Thank you :)
Hen
This dude loves buffers, damn! How manny buffer video you gonna do?-) LEGEND
And still he doesn’t really understand the concept of impedance. Funny huh?
@@thesphericalguy9018 lol ok. enlighten us, mr spherical guy
At the end of my chain I use the Aphex Aural Exciter and Big Bottom pedal. It's always on. Do you know if this would work as an output buffer or do I need a buffer after that? TIA.
Thank you RD. This video helps so much. Love your stuff. I run two amps at once and i can't find any buffers with stereo outs. what would you recommend in this instance?
Nevermind. got my answer later in the video lol. Thanks Doctor. This video is amazing
Great video! What if you have a boss tu2 at the beginning and a boss loop at the end? Does this do the same thing?
Jerry Garcia used an alembic preamp buffer low impedance output which envelope filters open and close differently and so does his colorsound wah pedal would react differently Jerry Garcia said because the buffers output impedance was low impedance output so the envelope filter pedals would open and close at different points. Try making a video lesson about this
*Buff·er* (noun) \ˈbə-fər \ 2: a device used as a cushion against the shock of fluctuations 👍
Do you have any advice on using the Xotic Super Clean Buffer at the beginning of my signal chain and which buffer I should put toward the end? I've typically enjoyed having it at the beginning of my chain due to the buffer/ gain control / dip switches, but I'm realizing that the output impedance is 1k ohm, which is higher than what you recommend in the video I'm building a new board that is going to have 12-15 pedals: drives, compressors, a delay, US Dream pedal amp, vibe/chorus/trem, and a Fulltone SupaTrem that I'll use to split to two amps. Hope this is enough info? Let me know if you have questions.
Great vid!!
How about the Strymon pedals like the BigSky?
I've heard that they actually incorporate high quality buffers in their products, would you recommend placing a buffer after them or would their internal buffers be sufficient?
Strymon can be workable for the output buffer, you'd still need an input buffer first.
Hey Doc,
I’m currently on the market to purchase a Mesa boogie high wire buffer, my question is, would i need two of these pedals, if I have pedals on my FX Loop(send and return) and pedals going to the front of my amp? One buffer for FX send and return and the other buffer for guitar through pedals and lastly to amp? Or would the Empress be a better solution? I’m not using stereo on my rig everything is mono on my set up. I need help. Thanks!
So I have to DI sometimes for studio work, and i decided to look into the input impedance of the DI boxes I use at the studio, and found that the Radials are usually 220k on the input, whether its the JDI or the J48. Assuming I still want to meet the criteria of 1M to simulate the input of an amp, should i hunt down an active DI box with an input impedance of 1M or would it be okay if i used something like a TC Bonafide Buffer into a passive DI box to see if that improves the neutral tone of the recording for either plugins or reamping? Thanks so much for all you do, Mason, it helps to have someone with some engineering know-how teaching us musicians how to best use the electronics we handle on a daily basis
Thanks for the great video, it's very informative!!! I just have a question. I am using my pedalboard with "4 cable method" to my amp. Where should I put the buffers? Please note that I am using a TC Electronic Sentry noise gate with the buffer on connected to input, output, fx send and return.
Buffer first, buffer last, buffer on the return of the fx loop.
Hi Doc, I'm using Wampler Ego Mini compressor as my first pedal in the chain (always on). Is that enough or do I still need an input buffer? I'm currently using Bonafide as input buffer but thinking on moving it as output buffer if the compressor will act as input buffer.
You would be surprised how many times I share this video to people! Most people think "I have a Boss pedal on my board somewhere, so I'm covered, right?"
Thanks for sharing the good word!
I have a handful of Boss pedals that I usually use on any board and thought the same thing. Although they do help, you still need an actual buffer or two!
Hi Buddy Great videos thnx so i got 1 buffer "KM" for now do i need to put it after the guitar or at the end of the chain . This are my pedals on this order
Tuner, wah, Ego comp, Urberschall dist, MxrTtimmy ,Mxr mod od, strymon Dig,Tc nova dly hall of fame and Boss IR 200
please let me know thank you
What buffers are you using? Let us know in the comments below!
Vertex Effects Hi Mason thank you for the video!
Are used to use the Empress buffer plus before I saw another video of yours regarding buffer about a week ago
Then I bought the high wire because of its output impedance. How come you recommend the Empress buffer when their website States that the output is 510 ohms?
@@Markus050995 Which one do you like better ( and why ) the Empress Buffer Plus or the Mesa High Wire? - I am torn between these 2. Appreciate any real-world input.
@@michael_caz_nyc To be honest, I didn't compare them. The Empress, felt cheeper, than the Mesa and mostly therefore (and because of this video) I replaced the Empress with the Mesa. I am happy with the Mesa now, but I was also happy with the Empress actually :)
To be totally honest I had trouble hearing the big different between having no buffer and then using the Empress (when I tried my first buffer), but then again I use high quality cables and patch cables with 6-7 boutique pedals... I don't know man haha
@@Markus050995 Thanks. Appreciate the input. We are all on the Quest for: The Perfect Tone ( I'm right there with ya ). I'll probably try the Mesa.
Can the Buffer setting on TC-Electronic’s PolyTune3 mini function as an appropriate input buffer? Thanks for these awesome videos!
what about effects loops ... will you need to run buffers on the sends and returns? Also if you're using a patch bay such as the DIY one you have made (love the vid!) will the buffers still be useful if they're after the patchbay (on the input) or before the patchbay (on the output)
Good question
Good question about the patchbay! I have a rockboard patchbay (mod 1) and I can't tell if the housing of the outputs are plastic.. next time I have a ground loop I will see if I can get rid of it in the normal way (however all connections starting and ending in patchbay), if not, then I'll try connecting my amp straight from the isolated out.
Awesome video! I wonder, when using a wireless system from the guitar to the pedalboard, does it act as an input buffer?. In that case, is it redundant to use both the wireless and a buffer pedal in the beginning of the chain? By the way, is for a passive electric violin, Thanx in advance!
The wireless is all low impedance so no need for the buffer at that point. The only time you'd want a duplicate input buffer is if you were to go cabled in some instances where the wireless wouldn't be able to be the input buffer.
Hey Mason! Very nice video I really appreciate your content. Im Spanish so forgive my English.
I ve been trying to fully understand all this buffer thing and I think I am almost there but I got a few questions...
I understand the need of the buffer 1 (beginning of the chain) since the pickups expect to meet 1 M ohm and the pedals work better with low impedances. And I do understand the need of the output pedal since other pedals may not be prepared to carrie the signal during a long cable but... if the pickups are "supposed" to meet 1 M ohm, why do we send a 80 - 150 ohm impedance to the amp? And is it a problem to have on your pedalchain a boss pedal (eq, comp, delay...) or any other pedal that features 1 k ohm output impedance or higher than the 80 - 150 ohm you recommend?
Many thanks for al the teachings!!
We send the low output impedance to the amp so that the output cable capacitance doesn’t degrade the sound before it makes it back the the amplifier.
I get having a INPUT Buffer and a OURPUT Buffer BUT what if your using the 4 cable method with a Switcher like the Boss ES-8? Would you use 4 buffers in this setup? INPUT SEND RETURN and the FRONT OF AMP? Each one of these cables are 15 feet long so I would assume this would be ideal, who care about how much this would cost, I want to know if this is overkill or ideal.
Your videos are great, thank you so much.
question so what about runing into the effects loop of my friedman do i need a buffer for that as well? so im quessing i would need 4 buffers? 2 for effects loop and 2 from imput of amp to my pedals to guitar?
Depends on the FX Loop. I think the Friedman as a buffer on the send, you may still need one on the pedalboard on the return after the last pedal in the FX loop to drive the line back to the power amp input.
👍❤🇺🇲 GREAT DEMO A ALWAYS, THX ........ QUESTIONS : BOSS PH - 3 PHASE PEDAL......DO U HAPPEN 2 KNOW WHAT THE INPUT & OUTPUT JACK ( MEG & OHM ) VALUES ARE ?? 🎸
I took Mason's advice and bought the Mesa Highwire (after a lot of research, figuring, hemming AND hawing). It has changed my life...for the better. My tone has never sounded so perfect. Perfect being identical to plugging into the amp with a 10 ft. cable, only. I have 40+ feet of cable plus pedals. Just go buy it and use it!!!
Mason, one nerdy question for you: if you used the BonaFide, you'd plug the guitar into the input (1M ohm) and the output (100 ohms) go to the pedals. At the end of your chain, if you use another BonaFide, would you plug into the "output" (100 ohm) and then have the "input" of the buffer (1M ohm) go to the amp? That's the only way the amp would see 1M ohm, which it wants to see. Right?
No, a typical guitar signal will typically want to see a 1M Ohm input impedance. Also buffers are one-way circuits so you can’t just reserve an active pedal like that.
@@thesphericalguy9018 Spherical Guy: I get that. But if you build a pedal board like Mason did in this video, you're good on the input: guitar sees 1M, impedance TO the first pedal is 100 ohm. But on the output, the last pedal sees 1M and the amp sees 100 ohms. That's not right. Or am I missing something?
Here's a seemingly basic question that I never hear addressed directly... If I have a long signal chain (about 20 pedals) with some sensitive germanium fuzzes near the front, should I put a buffer after the fuzzes AND ALSO at the end? There are about a dozen or so pedals after the fuzzes. You seem to imply that the first one isn't necessary when you mention the Fuzz Face.
No buffers before Fuzz. Buffer could work OK after fuzz in some cases but you have to test. Some will not like to hit the input of a buffer on the output of the fuzz. Definitely the buffer at the end of the chain however. It's not that the input buffer isn't necessary with the fuzz face, it will just destroy the sound of the fuzz face if you put a buffer before it because of the high impedance nature of the pedal and it wanting to see passive guitar pickups to behave the way we're used to hearing it.
I’m curious to know your opinion on output buffers specifically using something like the Strymon Iridium, knowing that it’s gonna be used with DIs to house or straight into an audio interface, good or bad idea?
Hi, I have got the two small Empress buffers (buffer and buffer+). According to you the output impedance should be between 80 and 150 Ohms but in the specs of those the output impedance is 510 Ohms. Is that still a good value? I haven't measured anything, just got it off their manual, which is shared for both units. Thanks
Not ideal but better than most other buffers out there. If you're using a low capacitance cable on the output of your rig you should be OK.
Does Boss NS-2 work as buffer? (im using it for noise) (Put all overdrive/Distortion pedals in ns-2 loop and all effect pedals on amp effects loop) Guitar=>boss NS-2 input boss NS-2 Output=>AMP input
Hey Mason, the first 2 pedals on my board are the Boss TU-3 (Chromatic Tuner) and SD-1 (Super Overdrive). Would I place an "Input Buffer" before or after the Boss pedals ?
Yes, they're poor line drivers. If you have to use the TU-3, I'd at least get an output buffer.
I so appreciate your work man. I have a question: I need a buffer to put in my FX Loop of my Marshall Silver Jubilee to compensate for my tone sucking EHX Holy Grail Reverb (big box vintage). I am running it in stereo with an other Marshall Major. Will the Vertex Effects Boost work to bring my natural tone back or do you have an other recommendation specifically for the FX loop? I saw the Klein-ulator you recommended was discontinued. I am willing to support you in any way I can (I am also in the process of buying your patch cables and/or instrument cables, this first).
Get the Klein
If you had to choose a DIY buffer scheme for a pedalboard patchbox (4CM with 3 buffers -input, output, return-), what would it be? Taking into account the size of the PCB to fit 3 in the box and the quality. I've seen the Creation Audiolabs redeemer in one of your tutorials, but are not easy to get one of these in Europe. Thanks.
It would be the DIY buffer kit we show here on TH-cam. The CAL buffers. I see a lot of guys use freight forwarders inexpensively to import them
I am using an A/B/Y switch first in line to manage two guitars without unplugging all the time. What do you suggest for that?
I assume if I'm using my amp effects loop and using long runs of cable for those in addition to my input/output I would want buffers on the send and return as well would I, so potentially 4 in total?
Only if you have a buffered effects loop, most are not buffer, and those that are rarely are great
I know your super busy but thanks for reading this ! If I am using Guitar -> few pedals -> HX Stomp -> Stereo out -> H9 -> Stereo out -> Bigsky -> stereo out to front of house what buffer would you recommend ? I would need mono in buffer to stereo out buffer right?
probably just an input buffer before your first pedal at the least.
If you have a boss noise suppressor and your cross chain it to mute your fuzz like a swollen pickle.. where do you put your buffer then? Would it be correct to go guitar, spark, noise suppressor send to overdrive and swollen pickle, back to return and then output to line 6 dl4, tc t2 reverb, freeze pedal and then electro harmonix 720 loop. Would this be correct?? Thanks so much
This is SO Helpful! Thank you! I’ve spent days learning how to better set up my board. In the old days when I was spending time touring (late 80’s early 90’s) I didn’t use many pedals. Now in my home studio I have fallen into the pedal fun toys camp :). Typically have 8 or 9 on the board at a time - most are true bypass. At least one is not = old ‘83 boss OC2 Octaver.
K so question. I’ll add a high quality buffer at start (after the fuzz) and end from your recommended list. With that OC-2 in the mix, does that do anything to undo the goodness of the post fuzz input buffer? Should I pace the input buffer after the Octaver as well? I guess I just don’t know if the boss buffer impacts the remaining pedals?
And I’ll dare to ask a second. I do run 2 amps. Currently use the radial twin city - so I think I’ll aim to replace that with something like that empress that can handle the dual outs. Unless That twin city is ok - though it’s not on your approved list.
Again super helpful - thanks for all your videos. Im hours deep :)
The OC-2 so long as it's after the fuzz, should be fine. The OC-2 doesn't need another buffer after it. If you use a splitter, put the output buffer before the splitter. If you run stereo, you'd need a buffer on each output however. I think the Twin City is a splitter.
Thank you for the response. And yes the Twin City is a splitter - but it does have a class A FET buffer. Having now learned what I’ve learned from you I now better understand what’s in that device. It has a “drag” feature (a knob) that allows you to adjust the input impedance from 22k to 1meg ohm - so that could work at the 1meg setting. But appears the output impedance is 1000 ohm. So that’s way more than your recommendation. So perhaps I’ll ditch that splitter and go with something like the Lehle P Splitter.
Again - thank you - I’ve learned a lot from your videos and now aiming to put that knowledge to use! And I’ll go buy stuff from your store too ;)
So glad I watched this video! I just ordered a JHS Little Black Buffer, which conforms to your input/output specs, but also ordered an Xotic Super Clean Buffer. The Super Clean's output impedance is vastly higher than 100 Ohms! Requesting a refund from the seller and ordering a second Little Black Buffer, so I can place one at the beginning and one at the end of my long chain of effects.
Nice!!! Glad this stream was helpful!
@@VertexEffectsInc Indeed! Now I'm getting the right gear, saving some $, and David at Chicago Music Exchange speaks (writes) highly of you!
I just ordered JHS little black buffer as well but I could not find the specs anywhere on their website. Are you sure the specs conform to Mason's recommendations?
@@mikewallace1270 I can't cite the source off the top of my head, but I dug deeply enough to confirm that before ordering the pair I got. I'll try to track down the info.
@@ImYourOverlord I confirmed it on their website. It is exactly the specs Mason recommends.
The polytune mini supposedly includes the bonafide buffer. For just £9 more you get a free LED display to tell you when your guitar is in tune! Or is there more to this than meets the eye?
It’s fine as an input - you’ll still need an output buffer at the end of the pedalboard
Hey Mason, I'm trying to decide between the Empress Buffer+ and the Mesa Highwire. I really like the features in the Empress (mainly the boost and pickup loading options), but am a bit scared off of the 510 ohm output impedance. The Mesa has 150ohm output impedance, which sounds tempting, even without the features of the Empress. What's your take?
I had the same question...and found another question about the Empress' spec on the output buffer. In fact, the output on the Empress buffer linked is 510 and all of the buffers listed on the Empress site are 510 output, so the info and link is somewhat misleading. Mason answered it this way - It's a bit high for my liking. 100 ohms is ideal, this is about 5x higher than recommended and won't be as stable on the output with greater capacitive loads.
I am running a 4 cable method where my HX Stomp is the last part of chain before running back in the amps return. Since it is always on would a buffer matter as much? Everything in my signal path is true bypass except for my Polytune 3 which has the bonafide buffer. Also what about long effects send/return cables? would they benefit from a buffer or is that overkill?
Certainly an input buffer as it doesn’t have that, and output buffer going to the front of the amp, and I found on the HX that you need a buffer on the return going back to the amplifier as well. So three in total.
So, my poly tune bona fide at the beginning of my chain and my Sure GLXD-Z2 placed directly in to my amp? What if I'm using send and return only into my amp, will this order still be applicable? And if I'm using send and return as well as pedals at the front of the amp, will I need more buffer pedals? Great content by the way, Doctor.
😉
Usually the wireless would be first. Ideally you'd want an output buffer to the front of the amp and one on the FX loop return.
Is it possible to put a Buffer pedal in the send/return as the last pedal after the classic chorus, delay and reverb?
Or would it be more appropriate to put it as the last pedal after the fuzz and before the preamp without going through the send/return?
Thanks in advance for your reply
Question- I have 12 pedals on my pedal board. 1st in line is a boss TU 2 tuner. I know that you didn’t mention it, but is it possible to keep that where it is on my board (supposed to have a built in buffer) then at the end use the tc electronic buffer? I noticed a pretty big difference running straight to my amp (Friedman Dirty Shirley) vs through my pedal board. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
If you don't want to get a dual buffer, something like the TU-2 might work ok to control the pickup loading on the input, but you definitely would want an output buffer at least.
Thank you for this video, it was incredibly helpful! I had two questions I wanted to ask though: I checked on the empress effects website and it says that for the regular dual buffer the output impedance is 510 ohms. This falls outside of that 80-150 ohms range you discussed in your video; do you still recommend this buffer?
My other question is do I need an output buffer if my cable from my pedal board to my amp is only five feet? I would like to have an output buffer just in case I change my cable length some day, but for the time being, will having an output buffer negatively impact my tone at all if the cable is only five feet?
Thanks again and I hope you have a wonderful thanksgiving!
It's not ideal but better than most out there if you can't afford the Mesa Boogie High Wire. Yes I would still recommend it.
@@VertexEffectsInc The Empress certainly kills my high tone. Brought everything up real nice, lows were great, and clear, but that high end just lost its feel and crisp. Did a digital thing to the sound
Great video ,
Now would the same principle apply if using a wireless as using a cable connection?
Yes, except for the need for the input buffer.
Great video can you help me solve a slight hiss noise? I have about 8 pedals total and all are looped through a decimator II noise gate which I rarely use unless I have a high gain pedal on. I m running Mogami instrument and all patch cables and a truetone CS12.
When I plug straight into my amp. Dead quit, when I run through my pedal board I get a slight hiss that drives me nuts. The amp and pedal power supply are plugged into a voltage like conditioner voltage regulator.
My pedal order is noise gate/compressor/overdrives/distortion/analog delay/digital delay/ looped back onto the noise gate then out to amp.
I have tested each pedal by removing and replacing, with and without line conditioner outlets, pedal placement. Each pedal has its own power supply nothing chained.
I just can’t figure it out.
Answered above
im using 4cm on a Mesa Mark V 35. website says the effects loop is already buffered. so does that mean i only need input and output buffer on my board?
Kia ora from Aotearoa NZ. Mason & Vertex Effects I play a open back baffled banjo fitted out with a piezo pickup (placed just under the bridge). Through trial and error with pedals and amps I have come away with a pretty standard tone that I am pleased with. Like all of use I am forever tinkering. As a base line if you subtracted the Rickenbacker from the diagram and inserted an acoustic instrument with a piezo how would your demonstration change if any? Much appreciation and gratitude for your teachings. Wopila. J.
If you have a active pickup in the guitar to drive any of the pickups, you won't need an input buffer, but it's just passive, like a standard Piezo, you will still need a buffer just the same.
I notice the Truetone Pure Tone Buffer specs are listed as Input - 1M , Output - 50ohms. If I'm understanding, getting below 80ohms on the Output may noticeably roll off highs, is that correct? I realize it's a bit of a judgement call, but was surprised to see a company like Truetone designing a buffer that's out-of-spec, so to speak.
Also, do the same guidelines apply to bass or are there other considerations?
This is a great video Mason. No one has really explained it as well. I built a board (I havent used yet) and put a Polytune 3 (Bonafide) at the start of the pedalboard and a Radial Twin City A/B/Y at the end. Since watching this I have checked the specs and the Radial product has a 1000 ohm output impedance. Is that to help with brightness when in Y mode? I used to notice a tonal change when I used that pedal into 2 amps, but took it as perhaps as good as could be expected. Since I don't really use the Radial into 2 amps anymore, would that be better as the first buffer, since the 1000 ohm impedance would be hitting the next pedal, and then the Bonafide (in the polytune) and the end?
1000 ohms is 10X worse than ideal (100 ohms). I would suggest using a better output buffer before a passive y-splitter.
@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks Mason. I appreciate your help, time and effort in all you do.
Got super hooked on your channel. How woul the buffers react and work with having a couple other TC pedals that are true bypass? Polytune 2 and Flashback delay. Would having buffers at the start and end still be beneficial?
Your TC pedals might have buffers in them already that will work fine if placed first and last. Say the Tuner in the #1 spot with the buffer on as the input buffer and your TC Delay last as the output buffer.
@@VertexEffectsInc sweet, I ended up watching all your videos on buffers yesterday ha. Thanks for the reply man!!
I have a Boss Tuner at the front of my pedalboard. Is it functioning as a buffer from my guitar? (Also, is the quality of its performance as a buffer anything to be questioning?)
I have one other Boss pedal, a Tremolo, in the middle of the pedalboard. Should I still have one at the very end of the chain, before it hits the amp?
What about if you're using effects loop and 4 cables? Does that second buffer go at the end of the fx loop?
Is the fuzz face the only pedal (type) that you shouldn’t have a buffer in front of? For example, some people say that their overdrives get into “fuzz territory” when the gain is turned up....also, if my first pedal or two are buffered bypass, should I place another buffer right after it
Some old Wahs also don't sound good with a buffer in front of them. Typically pedals that are impedance sensitive are a no-no after a buffer.
Hello there sir I have 2 TC electronics Bonafide Buffer for input and Output. My question is where do i put my Cab sim ? After my output buffer or Before?. Thanks .
Is the Strymon flint a good output buffer? I have heard great things about it. But what happens if I have the pedal on? Then is it not as good as when it's off? Or would it be good both ways?
Yes, watch our video about "Pedal with Great Built In Buffers". It needs to be "on' or in buffered mode to be a quality output buffer however.
Nice vid man. My pedal order TU-3 > 535Q > TK999OD (Tube/12v) > Distortion+ > Fullbore Metal > Supro Fuzz. Is that a good pedal order or should I rearrange? Do I need any buffer in front/back? I found that the Fuzz will sound more saturated after buffered TU-3, is that odd? Please advise. Thanks.
I would put the Fuzz first, so Guitar, Fuzz, Wah, Tuner, Fullbore, Distortion +, TK999OD, Amp.
@@VertexEffectsInc thanks Dr. This helps a lot…
What about for the studio guitarist? Would a buffer serve any purpose when plugging into a high quality DI (Countryman Type 10) with a short cable?
Similarly, would a buffer serve any purpose on a signal coming from a high quality interface (Prism Sound), going into a high quality ReAmp (Signal Electronics), with short cables?
You're not going into an amp, only DI? Typically the impedances of DI and passive pickups aren't ideal for tone in a loading context. Wrong impedance compared to an amp.
I’m was using two JHS Little Black Buffers. I put one on the front of my board as the first in the signal chain and the last in my signal chain. I’ve had issues with signal loss until I bypassed both buffers. Not sure what went wrong or why or how to resolve it. Glad you made this video. Thank you Mason.
Do they fall into the spec? 1M input impedance, 80-150 ohms output impedance? Maybe check out my recommendations
Vertex Effects JHS emailed me directly a while back and told me the little black buffer is 1 Meg input and 100 ohm output. Mine works great!
justin salmons I tested one a while back, and don’t recall those specs exactly (maybe it was different then). I looked at a few schematics - just now for reference - and although internet schematics aren’t always accurate, it looks more like 733K ohm input impedance, and close to zero output impedance, could be 100 ohms as you stated. The problem here is that it uses a TL072 (on the one I saw and what I see online). If that’s so, the TL0 series has very poor current output and has stability problems driving output capacitance. Normally use is at least 1000 ohms (1k) series output to keep stable under normal conditions. TL0 series are a very poor choice. Also the input biasing is very poor. Again, this is all assuming it’s a TL072.
Vertex Effects interesting. I actually rehoused mine in my volume pedal to stop tone suck and it worked well. I wired it in line and modded the pedal. I can easily check the op amp in it. I love the TC Bonafide and I’m happy to see you do too. I’m also using the MXR CAE Line Driver and its working great!
@@VertexEffectsInc How do you feel about Fender Level Set Buffer? The specs are - Input: 1M ohm, Output: 1k ohm. Do you think that the output is at 1k Ohm due to TL072 OPA?
If I’m going into a fractal FM3, do I need a buffer from output 2 to the FX Return (power amp input)? Also, I’m going into a Fuzz, then an MXR CAE Wah (with a built-in buffer) to a Freqout feedback pedal to a Ditto+ looper into the Fractal FM3. Is the buffer in the CAE Wah good quality?
I don't understand your set up from this. The CAE Wah buffer is really more of an impedance corrector for a fuzz following it. It's only "on" when the wah is on, so it's not a buffer.
Thanks for making this video. It’s very informative.
What you still say the Bonafide buffer is good?
I’m just starting out with pedals and am learning so much from you and I really appreciate it. Your helping so many people and I commend you for that.
I just ordered the Bonafide buffer for the beginning of my chain as I have the mxr m300 at the end which has a buffer with your recommended input and output impedance. So I’m hoping the Bonafide will be the missing link. I’m using a Boss TU-3W as my front of chain buffer right now but the output impedance is too high hence why I purchased the Bonafide.
Is this the right buffer setup?
Thanks
Take care
Yes, it's decent.
@@VertexEffectsInc thanks for getting back to me. I appreciate it.
On my bass rig, I have a BOSS wl-50 at the beginning. You say that a wireless unit acts as a buffer, so is it okay to think that I'd only need a buffer at the end of the rig?
Correct, unless you go cabled into the input.
what about Lehle Sunday driver II as an output buffer? I see the output impedence is 220 Ohms on the Lehle and you recommend 80-150 output impedence. How significant is the difference between 150 and 220? What would be the effect?
That's pretty good, butter than almost all other commercially available buffers. However this is only one output buffer, you would need two of them to really do it properly.
Im looking for a buffer like the Buffer+ Stereo but they discontinued it.
Is there any other buffer like it?
I just need an input/output to loop -> stereo input from loop/ stereo output to amp.
Wait for our kits, we'll have some DIY version and some custom version you can purchase that are made to your spec.
Do you have any thoughts on the Lehle products? In particular, the Sunday Driver as a buffer and the P-Split III as a splitter at the end of the chain?
Acceptable - there are better ones, but I think it's very good, and certainly better than most out there.
Vertex Effects Thanks for your input.
Thanks for the reply! Got one more quick question please?
I use an sp compressor as an always on, first in my chain. Input impedence of 1M, output of 10k.
Would you still recommend I use an input buffer? (After the compressor I guess?)
TIA. Your videos and boost rock!
The output impedance is poor - 100 ohms recommended versus 10,000 ohms, depends on how far it's driving before it his another buffer or another pedal turned on.
@@VertexEffectsInc After compressor it would just be a very short patch cable to the next pedals in the eco system. Usually a true bypass dirt pedal... then a wampler terraform followed by the vertex boost and ending with a source audio collider.
Would it be beneficial
to put an empress buffer after my compressor?
@@ChrisCollinsGuitar I would focus more on an output buffer at the end rather than the input buffer.
@@VertexEffectsInc ok! Thanks v much
Hi Mason, i’ve the uad golden reverberator as last pedal on the chain. I need a quality buffer After That? Thanks
At home, I'm too lazy using my pedalboard. So my signal chain is guitar > 25 feet cable > amp.
Do buffer still give benefit to my guitar tone? Let's say my 25 feet cable is high quality cable.
If so, which is the best signal chain?
1. Guitar > patch cable > buffer > 25 feet cable > amp
2. Guitar > 25 feet cable > buffer > patch cable > amp
Thanks in advance, doctor!
Any reason in particular you are using such a long cable? Plugging your guitar straight into the amp will give you the most accurate sound. If you were to add in your pedalboard it would be guitar-cable- input buffer- pedals-output buffer- amp.
I am building my first pedalboard ever, and investing quit a bit in it as an stereo ambient sort of tool ... the last pedal in my chain is a Pigtronics looper. I want to retain the stereo signal into a Boss IR-200 > Focusrite Scarlett 8i6, so what buffer would you recommend I use at the end of the chain after the looper?
Depends on the output impedance of the last pedal driving to your interface.
@@VertexEffectsInc So what is the impedance of the Boss Ir-200 that I mentioned was the last device before the Focusrite 8i6? What would be your buffer suggestion in that scenario?
How's the buffer on the TC Electronic polytune with the bonafide built in? Is it still the same buffer quality as the bonafide?
I think it's the same from what I've been told.
It is okay to have 2 TC Bonafied Buffer ( 1 infront before the tunner and 1 on the last / end of the Chain.)?
Have you had any experience with good audio interfacer tx? I was searching the internet and found input impedence of 1meg and output inpedence of 500 ohms.
I wanted a buffer that could do stereo, dual mono (one to my amp and one to my two notes cab M pedal so that i can go direct to the FOH if needed) but also wanted a buffer that could switch from my shure wireless to a wired guitar. The empress stereo buffer could do all this, but giving that its discontinued, it had been difficult to find. I found good audio interfacer and wanted to know if its a good alternative
The input impedance is fine, I think the issue is more with the output buffer side and the 500 ohm output Z. 100 ohm or as close to zero is ideal, but I don't know what they're doing circuit wise. Could be ok, could be not so good. Some guys are using OPAs with terrible output current ratings and can get low numbers on the output Z but really not be that efficient.
Quick question I‘m wondering about for some time now: if I got the Mesa buffer and I put my fuzz pedal before it (in loop #1 of my ML5 switcher), is the guitar still seeing that 1-Mohm if the fuzz is not engaged, or is the switcher taking away from that impedance? I very much appreciate any help.
I think the ML-5 is all passive, no buffers so the impedance hitting it would be determined on what's before it.
Vertex Effects thanks for your reply! I‘ve tried it and the guitar doesn’t feel as responsive as plugged directly into the Mesa, so no fuzz on the pedalboard this time... 😔 All the best from Austria
So the Empress Buffer+ can be used as your input AND output buffer? ( through running the chain through the send/return )?
I belive it has an input and output buffer, yes.
Hello is The Earthquaker Devices a buffer? It shows 1 M /1 K in out.
Would its also make sense to use a buffer when not all pedals are true bypass? I also was browsing the specs of the TC Electronic Hypergravity compressor which has a bufferd bypass mode and the specs are input impedance 1 MΩ / output impedance 100 Ω. Those fit with the numbers you mentioned a decent buffer should have, which is weird because its almost the same price for the mini compressor as the TCE buffer...Also makes it a big difference when a quality buffer is used at the front and a cheap one at the end of the signal chain?
Ideally, buffers on the input and output of the system and as much true bypass in between them, but it's unrealistic that this happens unless you have a true bypass loop switcher or Midi switcher.