I believe both pronunciations are correct. I once asked my English professor friend about it after hearing someone on the news say "fort'...but I believe the connections say for-tay, so...
Fort and For-tay are both accepted and here's why. Forte etymology is Latin (Fortis). The term was adopted by France and Italy. In France, it's pronounced Fort and it's generally used to speak of, describe, or as an adjective of strength or/and stoutness (i.e an structure). In Italy, Forte is used to describe or speak about strength or/and loudness, but its also the term used to describe the strongest part of the blade used in the sport of Fencing, which was originated in Italy and later perfected in France. In Italy, the pronunciation is For-tei (no matter what is being referred to) which sounds in English as For-tay. As of how Forte (the horse) should be pronounced, I believe it's For-tei (or For-tay), given that his owner is Italian-American, he paid for the colt, and he refers to him For-tei (For-tay). By the way, if you go to a French restaurant dont ask for a Torte unless you want to be laugh at 😂. Torte is a German term adopted from the Latin torta via Itlay. The chocolate torte confection is called Sachertorte, originated in Vienna, Austria in the 1830s, a period when the Austrian Empire kept the German as one of their official languages (as they do today). If you go to an authentic French restaurant ask for a gâteau, unless they have real Sachertorte in the menu. The reason why Torte is strictly pronounced Tort is the German rooted adoption from the Latin kept out the A (Tort-a), which the Italian kept intact. Forte can have two pronunciations because the term was adopted by the French and the Italian, two different Latin divergent Languages with different enunciation but that kept the structure of the word intact. Keep in mind, that, from all the Latin divergent languages, the Italian is the most similar language to the Latin in word structure, enunciation and pronunciation.
Herminio, Great explanation! My Dad was a newspaper editor and a stickler for pronunciation and spelling, and he would have appreciated what you have to say.
Hit Show shouldn't be dismissed. Why? He is a May foal and has been given enough time to develop between starts. The colt has the distinction of being the post time favorite in his 5 career starts. Two 9F races 8 weeks between each is an unusual path to the KD. But could be the right move for a May foal. The colt has the most accomplished dam in the field with earnings of $545K. She broke her maiden in the 9F Black Eye Susan (G2) The colt has the shortest distance to the line.
It was simply amazing to hear both gentlemen dismissed Confidence Game with such ease. Evidently the colt facts that I have been reviewing are meaningless. What cold facts? The colt has recorded the fastest first 2F of any in the field - 8/13/22; CD; 6F- Gate to wire - (21.65); 45.56; 58.19. The colt recorded the 3rd best time for 8.5F at CD with a gate to wire win -1:43.67. Two wins at CD were gate to wire. The colt has secured P#4 and appears to be faster than the 3 drawn inside. He therefore should secure and easy lead with a good break. The colt has displayed good tactical speed and has the pedigree to be effective at 10F Sire Candy Ride won over10F. dam sire Bernardini won over 10F. His 2nd dam won over 10F albeit on turf. His high keen action could be from the turf part of his pedigree via his 2nd dam. The CD surface is kind to turf types. Who is Animal Kingdom & Barbaro? The long layoff is more of a positive than a negative. He made a start every month form July 22 to Feb 23 with December being the only month without a start. His 8F breeze from the gates in 1:38+ is like a race simulation. He followed up with 5F in 59. From post position #4 I expect this colt to be sent to the lead and he could go all the way as he did in his two previous wins at CD.
Was on Mage all the way, so I was watching the odds with great interest as were many others. He was bouncing between 16 and 17, and went to 17 just before the gates were loaded. When they went off, he was 15-1. SO, that's not such a move? Consider the fact that there was about 60 mil in the win pool at that point, so we can assume that many people came to their senses as the horses were being loaded, or maybe we can assume something else.
I think Angel of Empire (and Forte) are going to have troubled trips. I'm also off of the win bet this year, I think anyways. Long story short, if I had to pick one horse, it would be Angel of Empire. I love Practical Move, but I think he will back up. My long shot is Hit Show, I think a live price horse is Kingsbarns because he seems to be on the improve and has the pedigree top and bottom for the distance. Anyways, I haven't even talked about Tapit Trice who is the most likely winner. Great betting race this year.
Funny thing . There is a replay of the Florida Derby with Fort Bragg running against Forte. Maybe Free and Beyer will call him Forte Bragg. Maybe they been watching Biden to long.
The fact that u guys can’t pronounce the horses names correctly is ridiculous (forte, continaur) . Good luck with the picks but I’m looking for info elsewhere
Medina Spirit did not win the derby, and got disqualified! Mandaloun won the derby! Btw, both gentlemen are correct in pronouncing Forte. For end pronunciation, there should be an apostrophe on the e.
Wow Andrew Beyer said that Mage won't be among the top 10 finishers in this past KD, he was totally wrong by a mile. On the other hand, Brad Free was a bit closer without a doubt.
It took > 35 min to get to the important issues of why tf is there an apostrophe in Two Phil's and the pronunciation of Forte vs Forté and French desserts. Do better, guys! 😂
Brad, With the nothing but maximum respect, there are no such things as a weak field. You are far too knowledgeable to allude to such a thing. Each crop has different talent levels. But that doesn't make the crop weak but rather different. Are you of the opinion the connection of the $1.3M Tapit Trice would appreciate hearing their KD contender is a part of a weak crop/field? Referring to a crop as weak is a gross insult to the majestic equines athletes that run their heart out for their owners, care givers and unknowingly, the wagering public. Further, there is absolutely no indication and/or asterisk in the record books, that a particular Kentucky Derby winner was from an assessed weak crop/field. Any such indicator would equate to an indictment of such KD winners, thus diminish their achievement and differentiating them from other winners. The records make to reference to the fields from which KD winner have emerged. Therefore, one as knowledgeable as you should refrain from indicting the gladiators of the sport with demeaning critiques. I lost a lot of respect for Mr. Beyer after he referred to Rabel's Romance as a FRAUD ahead of the Breeder cup Turf Classic. The Godolphin flag bearer not only won the race but established a NTR. The gentleman didn't distinguish himself with his utter ignorance regarding European Racing but apparent doesn't know he is ignorant. He is advised to sat in his lane. Mr. Beyer never misses an opportunity to plug his meaningless Beyer Figures. His every sentence includes a noun, a verb and the figures. He has somehow convinced himself that Beyer speed figures are significant to the handicapping and talent evaluation process. He is even convinced that horses run Beyers. Horses run panel fractions and final times on every surface on which races are conducted. They do not run Beyers Figures. Speed Figures are assigned by human using different computer models. Occasionally these figures are adjusted at the discretion of those responsible for the initial assignment. Speed figures vary between Beyers, Time Form, Equibase and Thoro graph. A particular horse being assigned a different speed figure for a specific performance is a red flag. Which of these platforms has accurately translated a performance into either a double digit or triple digit number? But more importantly how useful are seed figures? Subject to correction, Bellamy Road entered the KD with the highest Beyer ever assigned for a KD prep i.e., 120. He finished amongst the also ran. For the person who have been brainwashed into believing Beyer figures are a significant guide. They would have lost with every wager that included Bellay Road as a significant entrant. Kentucky Derby entry points are not allocated to entrants who run with the race day medication Lasix. As a result, the drug isn't administered in KD prep. Lasix has long been used to prevent bleeding but is deemed to have enhancing properties. It is also alleged Lasix is used to block the present of other performance enhancers. I consider it legitimate to question if there is a correlation between the absence of Lasix and the overall reduction in triple digit performances.
Thank you both for the knowledge you bring to the table.Have been a fan for year
Hey Brad. How come you're calling Forte, Fort?
Their credibility moves down a notch by calling forte fort.
He can barely handicap
@@elindemier yeah, and they're both so proud that they're "correct"
He picked a 50-1 morning line once to win. I always go against his picks
I believe both pronunciations are correct. I once asked my English professor friend about it after hearing someone on the news say "fort'...but I believe the connections say for-tay, so...
Great video, thank you
Fort and For-tay are both accepted and here's why. Forte etymology is Latin (Fortis). The term was adopted by France and Italy. In France, it's pronounced Fort and it's generally used to speak of, describe, or as an adjective of strength or/and stoutness (i.e an structure). In Italy, Forte is used to describe or speak about strength or/and loudness, but its also the term used to describe the strongest part of the blade used in the sport of Fencing, which was originated in Italy and later perfected in France. In Italy, the pronunciation is For-tei (no matter what is being referred to) which sounds in English as For-tay. As of how Forte (the horse) should be pronounced, I believe it's For-tei (or For-tay), given that his owner is Italian-American, he paid for the colt, and he refers to him For-tei (For-tay). By the way, if you go to a French restaurant dont ask for a Torte unless you want to be laugh at 😂. Torte is a German term adopted from the Latin torta via Itlay. The chocolate torte confection is called Sachertorte, originated in Vienna, Austria in the 1830s, a period when the Austrian Empire kept the German as one of their official languages (as they do today). If you go to an authentic French restaurant ask for a gâteau, unless they have real Sachertorte in the menu. The reason why Torte is strictly pronounced Tort is the German rooted adoption from the Latin kept out the A (Tort-a), which the Italian kept intact. Forte can have two pronunciations because the term was adopted by the French and the Italian, two different Latin divergent Languages with different enunciation but that kept the structure of the word intact. Keep in mind, that, from all the Latin divergent languages, the Italian is the most similar language to the Latin in word structure, enunciation and pronunciation.
Get serious bro
Herminio, Great explanation! My Dad was a newspaper editor and a stickler for pronunciation and spelling, and he would have appreciated what you have to say.
@@jackwoods9604 I agree. If his owner wants to pronounce it ForTay then that's the way everyone else should say it.
always great
How about the recent scratches and their plus/minuses
Hit Show shouldn't be dismissed. Why?
He is a May foal and has been given enough time to develop between starts.
The colt has the distinction of being the post time favorite in his 5 career starts.
Two 9F races 8 weeks between each is an unusual path to the KD. But could be the right move for a May foal.
The colt has the most accomplished dam in the field with earnings of $545K. She broke her maiden in the 9F Black Eye Susan (G2)
The colt has the shortest distance to the line.
14, 5, 3, 2, 9 tri box
It was simply amazing to hear both gentlemen dismissed Confidence Game with such ease. Evidently the colt facts that I have been reviewing are meaningless.
What cold facts?
The colt has recorded the fastest first 2F of any in the field - 8/13/22; CD; 6F- Gate to wire - (21.65); 45.56; 58.19.
The colt recorded the 3rd best time for 8.5F at CD with a gate to wire win -1:43.67.
Two wins at CD were gate to wire.
The colt has secured P#4 and appears to be faster than the 3 drawn inside. He therefore should secure and easy lead with a good break.
The colt has displayed good tactical speed and has the pedigree to be effective at 10F
Sire Candy Ride won over10F. dam sire Bernardini won over 10F. His 2nd dam won over 10F albeit on turf.
His high keen action could be from the turf part of his pedigree via his 2nd dam. The CD surface is kind to turf types. Who is Animal Kingdom & Barbaro?
The long layoff is more of a positive than a negative. He made a start every month form July 22 to Feb 23 with December being the only month without a start.
His 8F breeze from the gates in 1:38+ is like a race simulation. He followed up with 5F in 59.
From post position #4 I expect this colt to be sent to the lead and he could go all the way as he did in his two previous wins at CD.
Fascinating Skinner is the only name on both of your top fours.
I'll with Beyer here.
Actually, Derma ran about 1/2 SLOWER than Mendelssohn (according to the UAE derby page on Wiki). So more like a 103.
Great analysis! I respect each of your picks. I'm siding with Andy on Derma.
The Americans released Sunday Silence over Easy Goer who was a dud at stud who did'nt throw much.Sunday Silence became the Nothern Dancer of Asia.
Great Job 👏
DS…AOE..Skinner..TT
Was on Mage all the way, so I was watching the odds with great interest as were many others. He was bouncing between 16 and 17, and went to 17 just before the gates were loaded. When they went off, he was 15-1. SO, that's not such a move? Consider the fact that there was about 60 mil in the win pool at that point, so we can assume that many people came to their senses as the horses were being loaded, or maybe we can assume something else.
Two Phil's working gangbusters
Angel of Empires has a Dosage Index of 9.00. What are you thoughts about this no longer used measure?
I think Angel of Empire (and Forte) are going to have troubled trips. I'm also off of the win bet this year, I think anyways. Long story short, if I had to pick one horse, it would be Angel of Empire. I love Practical Move, but I think he will back up. My long shot is Hit Show, I think a live price horse is Kingsbarns because he seems to be on the improve and has the pedigree top and bottom for the distance. Anyways, I haven't even talked about Tapit Trice who is the most likely winner. Great betting race this year.
Funny thing . There is a replay of the Florida Derby with Fort Bragg running against Forte. Maybe Free and Beyer will call him Forte Bragg. Maybe they been watching Biden to long.
I wonder if Brad Cox Pletcher Asmussen had 2 horses drop,would they get banned indefinitely
There are only 4 grade one winners in this race. I think the winner will come from this group.
The fact that u guys can’t pronounce the horses names correctly is ridiculous (forte, continaur) . Good luck with the picks but I’m looking for info elsewhere
@@susang.8549 They will both be embarrassed after the Derby.
Ignore Confidence Game at your own peril
Rich strike was full of an undetected shake hasn't even showed since.
Battery 🔋.
Derma slides into post 16 after the scracth of #10 Practical Move.I don t think it matters all tht much, Practical Move was a player big scratch.
Medina Spirit did not win the derby, and got disqualified! Mandaloun won the derby! Btw, both gentlemen are correct in pronouncing Forte. For end pronunciation, there should be an apostrophe on the e.
Andy copies Brad and mispronounces Forte
Epic, lol.
So funny
Wow Andrew Beyer said that Mage won't be among the top 10 finishers in this past KD, he was totally wrong by a mile. On the other hand, Brad Free was a bit closer without a doubt.
Maybe They Pronounced it "Fort" in The Early 1900s...People Been Sayng "Fortay" For a VERY Long Time Now
How can neither of them know how to pronounce Forte ?
my prediction is 10 - 14 - 9 - 7 - 15
It's ForTAY... not Fort!
Two Phil's underlay. Synthetic moved him up
Quite an oddity that Hit Show has gone off the favorite in every race he's run.
Neither of you guys will win but a combo of your top 4's will. Thats my opinion anyway. And you know what they say about opinions.
It took > 35 min to get to the important issues of why tf is there an apostrophe in Two Phil's and the pronunciation of Forte vs Forté and French desserts.
Do better, guys! 😂
Lol no chance Andy 😂
The word "forte," you correctly pronounce "fort," is English, not French.
No Andy, your figures are terribly wrong! Pletcher admit to bringing his best horses ever and the crop is weak? Give me a break!
Andy loses again. Brad is on the right track except for Two Phil's and Reincarnate
Come on fellas. You dudes can’t even get the right pronunciation on the favorite. Maybe Beyer was just following along
Derma sired by a second rate sire we didn't want. Derma can't wait to get home
similar to grabbing useless Sunday Silence
@@uforferdetnilsson2595 mind your biscuits didn't win the derby.
@@teambitcoin7530 - and neither did Keen Ice
This interview largely took me off Mage and onto the Japanese horses. The curse of Apollo has evidently expired. Time to move on.
Brad,
With the nothing but maximum respect, there are no such things as a weak field. You are far too knowledgeable to allude to such a thing. Each crop has different talent levels. But that doesn't make the crop weak but rather different. Are you of the opinion the connection of the $1.3M Tapit Trice would appreciate hearing their KD contender is a part of a weak crop/field? Referring to a crop as weak is a gross insult to the majestic equines athletes that run their heart out for their owners, care givers and unknowingly, the wagering public.
Further, there is absolutely no indication and/or asterisk in the record books, that a particular Kentucky Derby winner was from an assessed weak crop/field. Any such indicator would equate to an indictment of such KD winners, thus diminish their achievement and differentiating them from other winners. The records make to reference to the fields from which KD winner have emerged. Therefore, one as knowledgeable as you should refrain from indicting the gladiators of the sport with demeaning critiques.
I lost a lot of respect for Mr. Beyer after he referred to Rabel's Romance as a FRAUD ahead of the Breeder cup Turf Classic. The Godolphin flag bearer not only won the race but established a NTR.
The gentleman didn't distinguish himself with his utter ignorance regarding European Racing but apparent doesn't know he is ignorant. He is advised to sat in his lane.
Mr. Beyer never misses an opportunity to plug his meaningless Beyer Figures. His every sentence includes a noun, a verb and the figures. He has somehow convinced himself that Beyer speed figures are significant to the handicapping and talent evaluation process. He is even convinced that horses run Beyers. Horses run panel fractions and final times on every surface on which races are conducted. They do not run Beyers Figures. Speed Figures are assigned by human using different computer models. Occasionally these figures are adjusted at the discretion of those responsible for the initial assignment.
Speed figures vary between Beyers, Time Form, Equibase and Thoro graph. A particular horse being assigned a different speed figure for a specific performance is a red flag. Which of these platforms has accurately translated a performance into either a double digit or triple digit number? But more importantly how useful are seed figures?
Subject to correction, Bellamy Road entered the KD with the highest Beyer ever assigned for a KD prep i.e., 120. He finished amongst the also ran. For the person who have been brainwashed into believing Beyer figures are a significant guide. They would have lost with every wager that included Bellay Road as a significant entrant.
Kentucky Derby entry points are not allocated to entrants who run with the race day medication Lasix. As a result, the drug isn't administered in KD prep. Lasix has long been used to prevent bleeding but is deemed to have enhancing properties. It is also alleged Lasix is used to block the present of other performance enhancers. I consider it legitimate to question if there is a correlation between the absence of Lasix and the overall reduction in triple digit performances.