@@Play_fare Ah but what U-boat would have ever caught her? The only real danger QM faced was her own instability in the roll axis. Normandie was a good girl. Nice and steady at about the same clip as QM. I know the English pretend she was faster. But Normandie never had the long career with constant upgrades. Her machinery was running very comfortably at 35 knots, not much of strain. It's the only thing besides Napoleon that makes me a tiny bit happy to be half French. I couldn't care less but ah the Normandie. Yeah she's my ship. My people built her back in the olden days with slide rules. However those things work. They're black magic to me. But apparently you can use them to design ocean liners and space shuttles.
@@221b-l3t Funny you mention slide rules - I come from the generation that started to use pocket calculators in the early 1980’s. A science teacher at my high school asked me and a buddy if we wanted make a few dollars at the end of the school year to clean out some old science labs that weren’t used anymore. We could keep anything we wanted as long as it wasn’t chemicals or dangerous. So, I found a box of different types of slide rules and the manuals that went with them. I have them still.
They didn't abandon or deliberately "disconnect" the fire system, as per 26:43. Instead, they "upgraded" it by throwing out the original French Line fire hoses and brought US Navy standard fire hoses onboard. When the fire broke out, they found the US hoses didn't fit onto the metric hydrants throughout the ship. Frankly, if they ever succeeded in the conversion to a troopship, it would have been a death-trap because of this.
I'm gonna steal that. I want a blues band but I like heavy metal too, that would be an excellent name. Each album cover is a flaming oceanliner. Or you can have it, I think The Oceanliners is good too. First album cover is cows in the water with Maury, Aquitaine and Olympic being scrapped in the background.
First story is actually really profound, it dispels the myth of a Captain going down with his ship whilst also highlighting that his responsibility is to ensure crew and passengers are safe first, so to elucidate; Captains dont 'go down with their ship' what they are actually doing is remaining at their post til all the passengers and crew are off safely. Sometimes the ship goes down before thats fulfilled, thats what we would consider 'going down with the ship' its not some grand gesture to the vessel, its the responsibility of being the captain and putting other lives ahead of your own.
And then once they're all saved, you go down with the ship out of respect for her and of guilt for her loss. That's what I was always taught going down with the ship was about.
Unless you're the captain of that Korean ferry who abandoned all of the highschool kids on the ship by telling them to stay in their cabins. Then immediately getting off the ship and being rescued, while pretending to be a passenger. And then you tell the rescue people that there's no one else on the ferry over and over until it's too late and all kids who are trapped die. Then you escape punishment with a slap on wrist even tho it comes out you bribing government officials and taking on way more cargo than was safe or could be tied down is what caused the ferry to sink in the first place. Yeah unless you're that guy, the captain always puts the crew and passengers above themselves. Sorry just reminded me of that whole thing
This is well put. The Captain stays on the ship until everyone that can be saved is off. If they go down in that process, so be it. But to expect someone to die voluntarily for a piece of property? That doesn’t make any sense.
@@druisteenit was a moonless night, a berg would be almost impossible to spot. It didn't shine white like it usually would, just a slightly blacker splotch.
What I especially enjoy about your videos is that they aren't just dry recitations of historical facts. The top shelf production quality coupled with your engaging narration always elicits a deep emotional response. Thank you for your continued hard work.
It’s crazy to considered that the US navy was so careless with the Normandy, which was the most expensive ship ever built until later in the 2000s, at the total cost of 1.3 billion US dollars(after adjusted for inflation).
I read somewhere once that one of the names considered for one of the French Line's ships (possibly Normandie?) was the Jeanne D'Arc (Joan of Arc) ... until some bright light in the boardroom realized that, given their recent history, naming a French liner after a heroine who was BURNED AT THE STAKE might not have been the best idea ....
Thanks so much for another fascinating video essay. I would love to see a complete walk-through of the Normandie. Or any of the others, for that matter. I'm always fascinated by the use of space, by design, and by perspective - especially in fully-enclosed spaces.
France: So what happened to the Normandie? USA: Uh, have another croissant. France: We’d prefer our liner back please. USA: Here’s a German liner as compensation. France: 😢😢😢😢
France: I guess we'll take i- oops, we sank it. USA: How? France: Collided with another sunken ship. USA: How did _that_ one sink? France: Uh, have another hamburger.
Great watch "as usual." Next, your narration is Top-Notch. Also, the SS Pasteur was a really a good-looking ship. Thanks for your time, hard work, posting and keeping Maritime History alive.
Thank you so much for your channel/information. It’s deeply appreciated. I was very familiar with Webb Institute and those gentlemen from Webb are the reason for my interest in your channel. There were no females decades ago. Archaic, I know. But then again, I well remember “The Gracies.” Your channel offers consistently excellent content. Again, many thanks. Your channel means a whole lot more than you realize.
My grandparents eldest daughter died in the George Philippar fire. She would have been an aunt of mine if she had lived. RIP Aunt Evelyn ( died at 6 ).
Contrary to belief wood has a pretty good fire resistance. As the outer layer of wood burns and turns into carbon, the inner layer is insulated and can keep it's structural properties. However with thinner pannels covered in flammable materials, these properties don't mean much
Georges Philippar was the second of a series of three sister ships. The first one was the Felix Roussel and the third one was the Aramis (I own a model of this one, made by my grandfather). The history of the trio is strangely similar to the Olympic class liners : The first one of each trio had a succesful commercial carreer spanning several decades and was awarded for notable actions during a worldwide war. The second one sank during her maiden voyage. The third one sunk as a converted military ship after it got hit with an explosive charge (Aramis was seized and renamed Teia Maru by the Japanese Army and sunk by the Americans, killing 2600 people).
Wood paneling and varnish ! I know a guy who had an old house with a lot of wood work varnished moldings and such. None of it was less than 50 years old. One day a guy who had rented the place or his visiting pal left something burning on the edge of the fireplace. He had a crackhead buddy visiting fresh out of county jail🙄. When I looked at it a couple weeks late it was hard to Believe . That tiny fire got up on the mantle and from there to the ceiling and the rest of the wood ceiling. It had then traveled around the corner and down the hall and then up the staircase. It did little damage long the way just running the moldings and railings touching little else not even pictures. Upstairs it wandered the hallway as before touching almost nothing but that molding until it went into a couple bedrooms and got into the attic. In the attic it made billowing smoke seen by a volunteer fireman on his way to work . Going over that mess weeks later I gained a whole new perspective on woodwork, varnished in particular. It really made little sense how that fire travelled as it did but somehow the fire really did snake all over that house as was evidenced by the trail of modestly charred wood moldings. It showed me all I need to know about varnished woodwork 👎🏻.
A good video- I would not have wanted to travel on the France- I've read that it "rolled like a sick headache." I've seen a picture of it in lower New York bay, near the Bremen. The Bremen was bolt upright and the France was heeled over at about 20 degrees. This was on totally calm water.
“Behind the light switch” - does anyone think it was a coincidence that these ships were electrified? Didn’t short circuits used to regularly start fires in the early days of electrification?
They still do. It's what electricity does. Remember Swissair 111? It's wreck is not far from SS Atlantic and not that far from Titanic. Went down in flames with hundreds aboard. Pilot was still flying while being unable to see the instruments from the smoke. FO staid at the controls all the way down, the Captain was long dead after his oxygen bottle caught fire. To this day the MD83 is despised in Switzerland even though for once the aircraft wasn't at fault. They'd already corrected most of the issues after all the crashes. Especially the predecessor, the MD11. It served as an excellent study in were not to pinch pennies when designing an airliner. Unstable AF. Maneuvrable like a a fighter. But an airliner is supposed to be nice and stable. Let go if the controls and it returns to level flight. MD11 prefered to enter a sudden dive if you were too heavy handed with the controls.
SS L'Atlantique is my favourite, along with Normandie. So much beauty in 2 mesmerising Art-Deco ships. If you've never heard of Transatlantic, please search for her interiors. They are equal to Normabdie's interior and design. Unfortunately, not many remember L'Atlantique or Paris and Île de France .
Normandie, such a tragic/undignified /fully preventable end to a dazzling ship that will never be eclipsed. She was known as the 'Ship Of Light'. They added a 2nd class lounge aft of the 1st class 'Grill Room' at the end of the first season to help with vibration issues in the aft section. The 2nd class addition ruined her profile, and the 1st class 'Grill Room' no longer had views of the terraced decks down to the stern and the ocean. Such a shame. A redesigned propeller actually solved the issue. The 2nd class lounge wasn't needed. I wished I had travelled on her.
Really like this channel. As a guy who warn people that the ocean,lakes,and rivers don't care who you are,they will kill you on your first mistake. Over the years boating has become more dangerous due to inexperienced people piloting boats who don't have a clue to the rules or the skill needed for boating safely. I have lost too many experienced seamen, whom took a short cut one time and died on the water. I hope these videos helps get it into people's skulls that the water is a dangerous place.
This video once again sparks (i beg pardon for the round of words) my imagination on one topic....WHAT IF the Normandie survived the fire and the war ... in my imagination i'd love to see her back in service in the 1950's but there are a few question marks on the way . 1) would her immensely elaborate interiors prove too much for the transatlantic traveling public in that era? 2) would she had a chance to once again reclaim the blue ribband before SS.United States entered service? 3) after the jet air-travel revolution in the 1960's after being eventually pulled over from service ...would this French National masterpiece been preserved as a floating hotel/museum by the french? I'm afraid to have already an answer to my last question ...most probably she would have been scrapped but at least in my what if imagination she would have had an amazing glamorous career as she deserved (feel free to expose your ideas about this little what if scenario)
Wonderful video, as always. May I ask, what is the music used in the Normandie segment from 29:00-29:50? You’ve used it before and I love it. Thank you for another great watch.
I like the videos you make and always look forward to seeing new ones. I just saw a video recently about the SS United States and they said that she was facing eviction from her pier in Philadelphia. When the Covid crisis hit, the people that own the pier she's at doubled what they were charging for it. Now the people in charge of her are looking for some place else to move her to. She still holds the record for the fastest transatlantic crossing, ten hours faster than the Queen Mary. There were a lot of famous people that sailed on her and I think it would be a shame if she winds up being scrapped. They say she's still structurally sound, although she's in dire need of a paint job. It would be great if you did a video about her to raise public awareness of her plight. Then maybe someone with a lot of money or maybe even the government, would step up and do what's needed to save her. In my opinion, she's an historic landmark and should be treated as such. The government had dictated how she was originally built, with an eye towards her being a troopship that could haul 14,000 troops if needed. That could still be a good reason for the government to help save her. You never know. We might go to war with a country like China and need a ship that can haul large numbers of troops quickly some where. After all, how many aircraft and how many flights would it take to move 14,000 troops and how long would that take? Thanks for all your videos you have made and I hope you will bring attention to this matter.
I can’t believe there was a MV _Lafayette_ that was destroyed by fire just years before _Normandie_ was renamed USS _Lafayette_ and destroyed by fire. Talk about foreshadowing…! 😥😥
It would be easy to assume in the 1930s pre-war France that sabotage would be the culprit. D. C. Current in a ship would be dangerous enough as it was, considering the fact of the varnish used and the salt water vapor turned that ship into fire tender
Poor French liners, always burning and rolling over at dock. I always think of the Normandie being trapped in dry dock because of the burned and capsized wreck of the Paris blocking the way. Which would then later sink the Liberte (nee Europa) which replaced the Normandie after WW2. Then the poor SS Île de France get used as a movie prop and partially sunk and blown up to end it's career.
@muranpapadum7541 Wonder what your reasoning is for calling me a liar. It's a family story passed down and confirmed by multiple family members. People were board her that day. Are you saying they are fake and liars who never told their story? You sound like a conspiracy theorist.
@@aliciabrinkofski386 So simply not believing you when you gave absolute minimal makes me a conspiracy theorist? Okay. My reason for not believing you is because you gave precicely zero detail. Of course i know people were in her when she sank, but i do not believe you. Don't call people conspiracy theorists because you expect everyone to take your word seriously. If I'm a conspiracy theorist, you're a child for reacting like this.
@muranpapadum7541 All you had to do was ask for details. It's a bit of along story. So I usually wait for people to ask if they want to hear it. I didn't know that not telling a story when not asked makes you a lair. I've told the story before in several steam ship groups but will be happy to tell it here if your want to hear. Maybe ask for information before making assumptions.
Here's the short story. I'm not going into long details to keep it short but will if asked. As told by my grandmother's sister and confirmed by her and both of her brothers. My great grandfather was a civilian contractor electrician. He was working below decks when the fire broke out. He finally, he heard the commotion realized what was happening and tried to make his escape. He ended up on the reverse side. Unsure how to get away. He heard yelling below him and saw. There was a fire boat with men yelling at him to jump. He jumped and just barely caught the railing. As they were pulling him aboard, he heard the engines of the fire boat start up and they started reversing out of there very fast. Not too long after he watched her, turn on her side. My grandmother confirmed that she remembers her mother. Getting the call about what had happened. Her mother becoming hysterical that they had to find some way to get to New York as they had. living in Jersey at the time. My grandmother told me how her and her mother went down to new york and the docks she remembered standing on the highway bridge overlooking the scene her mother crying and being surrounded by other women, most likely wives also standing there in shock, not knowing what had happened and if her father was alive or dead. It was an until much later that evening that they found each other. He was bruised and battered but alive.
Their interiors were no different than dozens or even hundreds of other liners of the time that time that didn’t catch fire. It was just a run of bad luck.
@@angellight495I think the designers of the Normandie would take umbrage at that assessment lol. No, I disagree - there were other luxurious liners certainly, but noone could match the French for sheer culinary and design magnificence. Liners like the Ile de France and the Normandie were without peer in that regard in the 1930s at least.
@@elagabalusrex390 I should have been more specific. I meant in terms of the materials they were made with: polished woods, satin curtains, etc. All just as likely to catch fire. I 100% agree that the French Line interiors could never be matched in terms of style and luxury. While in some of these cases there was clear signs of negligence (Normandie) or accident (Lafayette) I honestly believe that the problem was in the electrical systems used aboard them in most cases.
Fleet Admiral Little, SIR! The crew is well aware of your burning desire to travel on the finest Ocean Liners of history, but this is extreme, SIR! Melka J.F. BT3 B55 1853
Thanks for the SI units, doing the conversion always takes me out of the flow and reduces enjoyment by a lot because I keep missing half a sentence trying to convert square feet or similar... so a big thanks from us slow brained EU fans.
-I mean, French liners tended to be smoking-hot, so I don't know what anyone was expecting.- Jokes aside, that pool on Georges Philippar actually caught me off guard. That is one of the most beautiful pools I have ever seen on a ship, right behind the Ballin trio and the Queen Mary. As for Normandie, to put it bluntly, her loss was a completely unnecessary, avoidable, embarrassing, and pathetic s**tfest.
1) bad electrical and wood varnish 2) electrical fire and wood varnish Here I was thinking it would be wood varnish all the way through but no. 3) oil fire 4) bakery fire 5) Navy incompetence
What is there to be said about the French and their paquebots, that hasn’t already been said……. Like burning the Louvre Museum, Rockefeller Center’s Radio City Music Hall, or the Paris Opera House….. unspeakable and inexcusable!! But, thank you for this … lest we forget, and hopefully learn a few simple lessons…..
while on the subject of destroyed by fire. Can you do seaescape cruises next. Their fires were a bit "mysterious" If you dont look at the insurance plans on some of these crazy payouts...
Mafia: Mussolini has us licked but the US is at war, we need a way to overcome them. *SS Normandie pops in to the harbor* Mafia: *Lights matches with malicious intent*
Not a word about the recent theory that it was actually arson ordered by Lucky Luciano that killed the Normandie. He would have done that to convince the US government that he was actually running the port of NY and that they should negotiate with him, which resulted in Luciano's relocation to a more comfortable prison and on the other hand the help from mafia when invading Sicily. Or is this theory (which is allegedly supported by newly unclassified documents) now discarded?
I get really pissed off if I accidentally delete an email that I'm writing...imagine how you'd feel constructing and building a whole massive ship, taking years to do so, only for it to be destroyed on it's maiden voyage!
They were so focused on giving the general public and autistic ocean liner buff supermodels of nautical engineering that fire safety was forgotten about.
I like big boats and I cannot lie That scrimshaw is so fly Is a mutiny going to take place Or hit that ice in a sharp place Oh when that leak gets sprung Or when a pirate flag gets hung! Oh and if you had enquired Many boats simply catch fire!
Such a shame that so many of these liners burned ..but due to the time and fittings used such as wood ect sadly it was bound to happen (as it did on other ships of the time) ...For me the French liners of that time were masterpecies ( i LOVE ART DECO) and nothing has come close to them since obv due to solas regualtions in modern times ...BUT i for one would love to see another ship built with the art deco style of the 30s in the public rooms all be it obv using safer fire proof materials ect ...mind you it would prob cost em a fortune to have la lique glass fitted on the scale that normandie and other ships did from the time! ...MOST of the modern cruise ships / liners are all the same now and dont have any panach or style like the old transatlantic liners ( and most of the cruise liners are 3 or 4 times a big now!)
The most elaborate sophisticated fire prevention system afloat is worthless if the Navy disconnects it. RIP Normandie. You deserved better.
That was a truly avoidable loss of a beautiful ship. At least she didn’t get sunk at sea full of troops.
@@Play_fare Ah but what U-boat would have ever caught her? The only real danger QM faced was her own instability in the roll axis. Normandie was a good girl. Nice and steady at about the same clip as QM. I know the English pretend she was faster. But Normandie never had the long career with constant upgrades. Her machinery was running very comfortably at 35 knots, not much of strain. It's the only thing besides Napoleon that makes me a tiny bit happy to be half French. I couldn't care less but ah the Normandie. Yeah she's my ship. My people built her back in the olden days with slide rules. However those things work. They're black magic to me. But apparently you can use them to design ocean liners and space shuttles.
@@221b-l3t Funny you mention slide rules - I come from the generation that started to use pocket calculators in the early 1980’s. A science teacher at my high school asked me and a buddy if we wanted make a few dollars at the end of the school year to clean out some old science labs that weren’t used anymore. We could keep anything we wanted as long as it wasn’t chemicals or dangerous. So, I found a box of different types of slide rules and the manuals that went with them. I have them still.
They didn't abandon or deliberately "disconnect" the fire system, as per 26:43. Instead, they "upgraded" it by throwing out the original French Line fire hoses and brought US Navy standard fire hoses onboard. When the fire broke out, they found the US hoses didn't fit onto the metric hydrants throughout the ship. Frankly, if they ever succeeded in the conversion to a troopship, it would have been a death-trap because of this.
@@normandiebryant6989 that's an even dumber move to do so.
"Excuse me, are there smoking sections on this line of luxury ships?"
"Why yes, potentially every section."
" Yes, everywhere except the fueling station."
“We’re smoking right now!”
Five French Ocean-liners.. is what my band will be named.
@serwerflip3226 it's worth recognizing. ☺️😁✌️🤙🎉
It should be a barbershop quintet lol
Très bien mon ami.
@@wheressteve Sì, Mon- deema la verdad.
I'm gonna steal that. I want a blues band but I like heavy metal too, that would be an excellent name. Each album cover is a flaming oceanliner. Or you can have it, I think The Oceanliners is good too. First album cover is cows in the water with Maury, Aquitaine and Olympic being scrapped in the background.
First story is actually really profound, it dispels the myth of a Captain going down with his ship whilst also highlighting that his responsibility is to ensure crew and passengers are safe first, so to elucidate; Captains dont 'go down with their ship' what they are actually doing is remaining at their post til all the passengers and crew are off safely. Sometimes the ship goes down before thats fulfilled, thats what we would consider 'going down with the ship' its not some grand gesture to the vessel, its the responsibility of being the captain and putting other lives ahead of your own.
…except for the 54 people that were still onboard. Either already dead, or still trapped.
Schettino says hi from his prison cell!
And then once they're all saved, you go down with the ship out of respect for her and of guilt for her loss. That's what I was always taught going down with the ship was about.
Unless you're the captain of that Korean ferry who abandoned all of the highschool kids on the ship by telling them to stay in their cabins. Then immediately getting off the ship and being rescued, while pretending to be a passenger. And then you tell the rescue people that there's no one else on the ferry over and over until it's too late and all kids who are trapped die. Then you escape punishment with a slap on wrist even tho it comes out you bribing government officials and taking on way more cargo than was safe or could be tied down is what caused the ferry to sink in the first place. Yeah unless you're that guy, the captain always puts the crew and passengers above themselves. Sorry just reminded me of that whole thing
This is well put. The Captain stays on the ship until everyone that can be saved is off. If they go down in that process, so be it. But to expect someone to die voluntarily for a piece of property? That doesn’t make any sense.
Almost every other notable French 1920s ocean liner spontaneously combusts.
Ile de France: sweats nervously
Nope, Ile De France would be the rescuer not the rescuee
@@wildsmileyYep. And a whole bunch of our ancestors owe a great debt to that great ship.
😂😂😂
If profuse enough sweat, could be a fire suppression system 😂
@@wildsmileyFun fact: in her final
decade of service, Ile de France came to the aid of vessels in distress at least nine times.
Its undeniable that the French liners came and went through a blaze of glory.....
at least they didn't hited an iceberg /
The one major exception being Ile de France
@@druisteenit was a moonless night, a berg would be almost impossible to spot. It didn't shine white like it usually would, just a slightly blacker splotch.
"That one burned down, fell over, and then sank into the swa...err...harbor!"
Ah the huge tracts of ocean.
@@SofaKingShit get out of my brain! 😂
But the fourth one stayed up! And that's what you're gonna get, lad! The strongest ocean liner in all these il... uh... France.
What I especially enjoy about your videos is that they aren't just dry recitations of historical facts. The top shelf production quality coupled with your engaging narration always elicits a deep emotional response. Thank you for your continued hard work.
It’s crazy to considered that the US navy was so careless with the Normandy, which was the most expensive ship ever built until later in the 2000s, at the total cost of 1.3 billion US dollars(after adjusted for inflation).
I read somewhere once that one of the names considered for one of the French Line's ships (possibly Normandie?) was the Jeanne D'Arc (Joan of Arc) ... until some bright light in the boardroom realized that, given their recent history, naming a French liner after a heroine who was BURNED AT THE STAKE might not have been the best idea ....
Thanks so much for another fascinating video essay. I would love to see a complete walk-through of the Normandie. Or any of the others, for that matter. I'm always fascinated by the use of space, by design, and by perspective - especially in fully-enclosed spaces.
"Decade of Fire" oh baby!
Zut Alors, big boat man has dropped a new video.
Oui oui.
France: So what happened to the Normandie?
USA: Uh, have another croissant.
France: We’d prefer our liner back please.
USA: Here’s a German liner as compensation.
France: 😢😢😢😢
France: I guess we'll take i- oops, we sank it.
USA: How?
France: Collided with another sunken ship.
USA: How did _that_ one sink?
France: Uh, have another hamburger.
Fascinating and well researched documentary.
You insist in NOT disappointing. 🙏
Great watch "as usual."
Next, your narration is Top-Notch.
Also, the SS Pasteur was a really a good-looking ship.
Thanks for your time, hard work, posting and keeping Maritime History alive.
15:06 What a beautiful ship!
Thanks!
Thank you!!
14:55 majestic view
Thank you so much for your channel/information. It’s deeply appreciated. I was very familiar with Webb Institute and those gentlemen from Webb are the reason for my interest in your channel. There were no females decades ago. Archaic, I know. But then again, I well remember “The Gracies.”
Your channel offers consistently excellent content. Again, many thanks. Your channel means a whole lot more than you realize.
Between you and Mike of Ocealiner Designs and Brick Immortar I am spoiled like a MOFO with good content.
Mike is also awesome, for sure. Thanks for the Brick Immortar mention - now subscribed!
@@slypearHis content is really good, and his voice is relaxing.
His video about the Scandie Rose is equal parts horrifying and amazingly well done.
fantastic video as always, I would love to see an indepth video about the Normandie from you!
Thank you for another outstanding video. God bless and RIP to those lost in these fires.
Never heard of the Phillipar before today.
My grandparents eldest daughter died in the George Philippar fire. She would have been an aunt of mine if she had lived.
RIP Aunt Evelyn ( died at 6 ).
Another well made, and truly interesting video! Thank you for your efforts, and I am looking forward to the next one!
This was beautifully written and executed, thank you!
My heart aches each time I hear the story of Normandie.
Hearing one of my favorite pieces by one of my favorite composers play while watching Normandie, my favorite ship, burn… I don’t know how to feel. -_-
I just love the atmosphere of your channel!
Five ships. All burned because of their wood styling.
Who would have thought wood was flammable?
Wood is flammable, but it was the varnish that fueled the fires.
Contrary to belief wood has a pretty good fire resistance. As the outer layer of wood burns and turns into carbon, the inner layer is insulated and can keep it's structural properties.
However with thinner pannels covered in flammable materials, these properties don't mean much
@@nootnoot6404 so you could still technically rebuild an ocean liner that's been gutted by the flames?
Thanks for sharing these stories. Take care.
Excellent documentary
This channel offers consistently great content.
Incredible recounts on history.
So much has been forgotten. Excellent site.😊
Georges Philippar was the second of a series of three sister ships. The first one was the Felix Roussel and the third one was the Aramis (I own a model of this one, made by my grandfather). The history of the trio is strangely similar to the Olympic class liners :
The first one of each trio had a succesful commercial carreer spanning several decades and was awarded for notable actions during a worldwide war.
The second one sank during her maiden voyage.
The third one sunk as a converted military ship after it got hit with an explosive charge (Aramis was seized and renamed Teia Maru by the Japanese Army and sunk by the Americans, killing 2600 people).
Highly informative and well-produced 😊
Wood paneling and varnish ! I know a guy who had an old house with a lot of wood work varnished moldings and such. None of it was less than 50 years old. One day a guy who had rented the place or his visiting pal left something burning on the edge of the fireplace. He had a crackhead buddy visiting fresh out of county jail🙄.
When I looked at it a couple weeks late it was hard to Believe . That tiny fire got up on the mantle and from there to the ceiling and the rest of the wood ceiling. It had then traveled around the corner and down the hall and then up the staircase. It did little damage long the way just running the moldings and railings touching little else not even pictures. Upstairs it wandered the hallway as before touching almost nothing but that molding until it went into a couple bedrooms and got into the attic. In the attic it made billowing smoke seen by a volunteer fireman on his way to work .
Going over that mess weeks later I gained a whole new perspective on woodwork, varnished in particular. It really made little sense how that fire travelled as it did but somehow the fire really did snake all over that house as was evidenced by the trail of modestly charred wood moldings. It showed me all I need to know about varnished woodwork 👎🏻.
I really enjoy all your videos. You do such an excellent job with your research & presentation. Steve. Canada
Beautifully presented, thank you.
Commenting for the interaction! Im literally obsessed with your channel! Thank you for the information and respect that you show the victims
A good video- I would not have wanted to travel on the France- I've read that it "rolled like a sick headache." I've seen a picture of it in lower New York bay, near the Bremen. The Bremen was bolt upright and the France was heeled over at about 20 degrees. This was on totally calm water.
I love listening to your stories. So interesting.
If I could describe Compagnie Générale Transatlantique’s Atlantic Liners in one word, it would be “flammable”
“Behind the light switch” - does anyone think it was a coincidence that these ships were electrified? Didn’t short circuits used to regularly start fires in the early days of electrification?
They still do. It's what electricity does. Remember Swissair 111? It's wreck is not far from SS Atlantic and not that far from Titanic. Went down in flames with hundreds aboard. Pilot was still flying while being unable to see the instruments from the smoke. FO staid at the controls all the way down, the Captain was long dead after his oxygen bottle caught fire. To this day the MD83 is despised in Switzerland even though for once the aircraft wasn't at fault. They'd already corrected most of the issues after all the crashes. Especially the predecessor, the MD11. It served as an excellent study in were not to pinch pennies when designing an airliner. Unstable AF. Maneuvrable like a a fighter. But an airliner is supposed to be nice and stable. Let go if the controls and it returns to level flight. MD11 prefered to enter a sudden dive if you were too heavy handed with the controls.
SS L'Atlantique is my favourite, along with Normandie. So much beauty in 2 mesmerising Art-Deco ships. If you've never heard of Transatlantic, please search for her interiors. They are equal to Normabdie's interior and design. Unfortunately, not many remember L'Atlantique or Paris and Île de France .
Normandie, such a tragic/undignified /fully preventable end to a dazzling ship that will never be eclipsed. She was known as the 'Ship Of Light'. They added a 2nd class lounge aft of the 1st class 'Grill Room' at the end of the first season to help with vibration issues in the aft section. The 2nd class addition ruined her profile, and the 1st class 'Grill Room' no longer had views of the terraced decks down to the stern and the ocean. Such a shame. A redesigned propeller actually solved the issue. The 2nd class lounge wasn't needed. I wished I had travelled on her.
Nice intro, man
Love your shows
French lines architects: 😄
French lines electricians:🤔
1:20 bless you. Think you forgot to take out that sneeze. Hope your aren't getting sick.
Really like this channel. As a guy who warn people that the ocean,lakes,and rivers don't care who you are,they will kill you on your first mistake. Over the years boating has become more dangerous due to inexperienced people piloting boats who don't have a clue to the rules or the skill needed for boating safely. I have lost too many experienced seamen, whom took a short cut one time and died on the water. I hope these videos helps get it into people's skulls that the water is a dangerous place.
Hey hold my beer 🍺
"😢Something that real life will never quite leave up to."😢 that line got me
This video once again sparks (i beg pardon for the round of words) my imagination on one topic....WHAT IF the Normandie survived the fire and the war ... in my imagination i'd love to see her back in service in the 1950's but there are a few question marks on the way .
1) would her immensely elaborate interiors prove too much for the transatlantic traveling public in that era?
2) would she had a chance to once again reclaim the blue ribband before SS.United States entered service?
3) after the jet air-travel revolution in the 1960's after being eventually pulled over from service ...would this French National masterpiece been preserved as a floating hotel/museum by the french?
I'm afraid to have already an answer to my last question ...most probably she would have been scrapped but at least in my what if imagination she would have had an amazing glamorous career as she deserved (feel free to expose your ideas about this little what if scenario)
Fascinating and well done. Thank you.
Great Video Bob 👍
Another great video!
Thank you again.
Wonderful video, as always. May I ask, what is the music used in the Normandie segment from 29:00-29:50? You’ve used it before and I love it. Thank you for another great watch.
I like the videos you make and always look forward to seeing new ones.
I just saw a video recently about the SS United States and they said that she was facing eviction from her pier in Philadelphia. When the Covid crisis hit, the people that own the pier she's at doubled what they were charging for it. Now the people in charge of her are looking for some place else to move her to. She still holds the record for the fastest transatlantic crossing, ten hours faster than the Queen Mary.
There were a lot of famous people that sailed on her and I think it would be a shame if she winds up being scrapped. They say she's still structurally sound, although she's in dire need of a paint job. It would be great if you did a video about her to raise public awareness of her plight. Then maybe someone with a lot of money or maybe even the government, would step up and do what's needed to save her. In my opinion, she's an historic landmark and should be treated as such. The government had dictated how she was originally built, with an eye towards her being a troopship that could haul 14,000 troops if needed. That could still be a good reason for the government to help save her. You never know. We might go to war with a country like China and need a ship that can haul large numbers of troops quickly some where. After all, how many aircraft and how many flights would it take to move 14,000 troops and how long would that take?
Thanks for all your videos you have made and I hope you will bring attention to this matter.
Thanks for another great video!
Great work Big Old Boats. Very unfortunate how those grand ships would end up burning so badly because of that wood varnish.
wow , thank you from wigan , lancashire
I can’t believe there was a MV _Lafayette_ that was destroyed by fire just years before _Normandie_ was renamed USS _Lafayette_ and destroyed by fire. Talk about foreshadowing…! 😥😥
It would be easy to assume in the 1930s pre-war France that sabotage would be the culprit. D. C. Current in a ship would be dangerous enough as it was, considering the fact of the varnish used and the salt water vapor turned that ship into fire tender
Poor French liners, always burning and rolling over at dock. I always think of the Normandie being trapped in dry dock because of the burned and capsized wreck of the Paris blocking the way. Which would then later sink the Liberte (nee Europa) which replaced the Normandie after WW2. Then the poor SS Île de France get used as a movie prop and partially sunk and blown up to end it's career.
Ads for Hero Wars is the bane of life on youtube.
My great grandfather was aboard the Normandie when she caught on fire.
sure, buddy
@muranpapadum7541 Wonder what your reasoning is for calling me a liar. It's a family story passed down and confirmed by multiple family members. People were board her that day. Are you saying they are fake and liars who never told their story? You sound like a conspiracy theorist.
@@aliciabrinkofski386 So simply not believing you when you gave absolute minimal makes me a conspiracy theorist? Okay. My reason for not believing you is because you gave precicely zero detail. Of course i know people were in her when she sank, but i do not believe you.
Don't call people conspiracy theorists because you expect everyone to take your word seriously. If I'm a conspiracy theorist, you're a child for reacting like this.
@muranpapadum7541 All you had to do was ask for details. It's a bit of along story. So I usually wait for people to ask if they want to hear it. I didn't know that not telling a story when not asked makes you a lair. I've told the story before in several steam ship groups but will be happy to tell it here if your want to hear. Maybe ask for information before making assumptions.
Here's the short story. I'm not going into long details to keep it short but will if asked. As told by my grandmother's sister and confirmed by her and both of her brothers. My great grandfather was a civilian contractor electrician. He was working below decks when the fire broke out. He finally, he heard the commotion realized what was happening and tried to make his escape. He ended up on the reverse side. Unsure how to get away. He heard yelling below him and saw. There was a fire boat with men yelling at him to jump. He jumped and just barely caught the railing. As they were pulling him aboard, he heard the engines of the fire boat start up and they started reversing out of there very fast. Not too long after he watched her, turn on her side. My grandmother confirmed that she remembers her mother. Getting the call about what had happened. Her mother becoming hysterical that they had to find some way to get to New York as they had. living in Jersey at the time. My grandmother told me how her and her mother went down to new york and the docks she remembered standing on the highway bridge overlooking the scene her mother crying and being surrounded by other women, most likely wives also standing there in shock, not knowing what had happened and if her father was alive or dead. It was an until much later that evening that they found each other. He was bruised and battered but alive.
RIP To all of those on The TITANIC. SO GLAD THE OCEAN is A BETTER A PLACE to go A THOSE WHO SURVIVED.❤GLAD IT DID NOT GO IN A BLAZE.
Guess the French lines should have rethought all those fancy interiors filled with flammable materials...
Ahhh, but they were beautiful. When I die, I wish to die in such beauty.
Their interiors were no different than dozens or even hundreds of other liners of the time that time that didn’t catch fire. It was just a run of bad luck.
@@angellight495I think the designers of the Normandie would take umbrage at that assessment lol. No, I disagree - there were other luxurious liners certainly, but noone could match the French for sheer culinary and design magnificence. Liners like the Ile de France and the Normandie were without peer in that regard in the 1930s at least.
@@elagabalusrex390 I should have been more specific. I meant in terms of the materials they were made with: polished woods, satin curtains, etc. All just as likely to catch fire. I 100% agree that the French Line interiors could never be matched in terms of style and luxury. While in some of these cases there was clear signs of negligence (Normandie) or accident (Lafayette) I honestly believe that the problem was in the electrical systems used aboard them in most cases.
Fleet Admiral Little, SIR! The crew is well aware of your burning desire to travel on the finest Ocean Liners of history, but this is extreme, SIR!
Melka J.F. BT3
B55 1853
Even non french built ship, like the SS Europa who became SS Libérte caught on fire. I maybe wrong, but please correct me for my mistake.
Europa caught on fire befor her og maiden voyage and needed to be rebuilt inside.
@@9TDFIle de France was pretty much the only major French Liner that didn’t suffer a fire
De roof De roof De roof is on fire, we don't need no water.
I wonder how much of a difference it would make in the war had the Normandy’s was completed as a troop ship.
I wish ocean liner travel would come back.
Do you think you will ever do a video about the Yarmouth Castle ?
Thanks for the SI units, doing the conversion always takes me out of the flow and reduces enjoyment by a lot because I keep missing half a sentence trying to convert square feet or similar... so a big thanks from us slow brained EU fans.
-I mean, French liners tended to be smoking-hot, so I don't know what anyone was expecting.- Jokes aside, that pool on Georges Philippar actually caught me off guard. That is one of the most beautiful pools I have ever seen on a ship, right behind the Ballin trio and the Queen Mary. As for Normandie, to put it bluntly, her loss was a completely unnecessary, avoidable, embarrassing, and pathetic s**tfest.
Ile de France got super lucky.
Yeah, they have a terrible habit of turning into toast.
Did i rver tell you i had a dteam we were strwards aboard the Normandie and we shared a cabin?
1) bad electrical and wood varnish
2) electrical fire and wood varnish Here I was thinking it would be wood varnish all the way through but no.
3) oil fire
4) bakery fire
5) Navy incompetence
What is there to be said about the French and their paquebots, that hasn’t already been said……. Like burning the Louvre Museum, Rockefeller Center’s Radio City Music Hall, or the Paris Opera House….. unspeakable and inexcusable!!
But, thank you for this … lest we forget, and hopefully learn a few simple lessons…..
So depressing. Makes you want to weep. 😢
woah new video
I want my eulogy to sound like the normandies
That is why you shouldn't use varnished wood for massive ships
Hope this helps😊
Who knew there was more than one kind of French fry? Poor ships.
while on the subject of destroyed by fire.
Can you do seaescape cruises next.
Their fires were a bit "mysterious" If you dont look at the insurance plans on some of these crazy payouts...
do you think the normandie coukd ahve eventually beat queen marys speed record
Mafia: Mussolini has us licked but the US is at war, we need a way to overcome them.
*SS Normandie pops in to the harbor*
Mafia: *Lights matches with malicious intent*
Not a word about the recent theory that it was actually arson ordered by Lucky Luciano that killed the Normandie. He would have done that to convince the US government that he was actually running the port of NY and that they should negotiate with him, which resulted in Luciano's relocation to a more comfortable prison and on the other hand the help from mafia when invading Sicily. Or is this theory (which is allegedly supported by newly unclassified documents) now discarded?
I am not a fan of the subliminal whispering music during the interludes.. Other than that, I really enjoyed these short documentaries
I get really pissed off if I accidentally delete an email that I'm writing...imagine how you'd feel constructing and building a whole massive ship, taking years to do so, only for it to be destroyed on it's maiden voyage!
Wooden vessels with wood paneling interiors. Just call them match box boats.
What was it about French Liners that made them catch fire....
They were French built....
They were so focused on giving the general public and autistic ocean liner buff supermodels of nautical engineering that fire safety was forgotten about.
French electrics!
Crepes Suzette
I like big boats and I cannot lie
That scrimshaw is so fly
Is a mutiny going to take place
Or hit that ice in a sharp place
Oh when that leak gets sprung
Or when a pirate flag gets hung!
Oh and if you had enquired
Many boats simply catch fire!
What it made was it was fuel to fire RIP
And that wasn't the first fire that affected the Paris. The earlier one was in the summer of 1929.
shame about normandie one of my favorite liners outside british liners special cunard liners
Such a shame that so many of these liners burned ..but due to the time and fittings used such as wood ect sadly it was bound to happen (as it did on other ships of the time) ...For me the French liners of that time were masterpecies ( i LOVE ART DECO) and nothing has come close to them since obv due to solas regualtions in modern times ...BUT i for one would love to see another ship built with the art deco style of the 30s in the public rooms all be it obv using safer fire proof materials ect ...mind you it would prob cost em a fortune to have la lique glass fitted on the scale that normandie and other ships did from the time! ...MOST of the modern cruise ships / liners are all the same now and dont have any panach or style like the old transatlantic liners ( and most of the cruise liners are 3 or 4 times a big now!)
Engineers, designers and fabricators create these remarkable resources. Then the population interaction is like an infestation.
Don't Italian cars have bad wiring and tend to have non working electronics and catch fire? 😂