Also making a PCB save a lot soldering work. There are companies making the PCB for you. Also it give app's how generate PCB layers from you circuit plan.
Hey man I feel for you, I know that feeling of whether you should keep trying to make it work (and know that it could fail at any time) or face the fact that you've wasted money and time and start again, or abandon the project. Anyway, this time wasn't lost, since you learnt a lot, and you even came up with a pretty nice video explaining a failure, which is rare in these instagram times where people seem to make incredible stuff in no time and without effort. Cheers
You didn’t fail .many wouldn’t have got as far as you did . And you learn from what you did . And you sharing this video teaches others . I wish you the best on all your other projects
exactly, no fail but a huge learning process. I have had this so often, that my current WoW is super strong, failing makes your better (and spend your time better, now, and next time!)
Nice video - tragic design 🤣 I wonder if the best would have been designing a custom PCB for the whole panel and use something like JLCPCB to deliver it. Um grande abraço desde a Espanha 🇪🇸 Eu sinto que meu canal no TH-cam não seria viável se eu estivesse morando no Brasil 🇧🇷😕
I already decided I'll design the PCBs and order from JLCPCB, so can't wait to get rid of all that wire. :p And great job with your channel! Doing amazing... And yeah, we have to work with what we got. It's HARDER, but doable... :p
I agree, I would just skip the wired prototype and go straight to custom PCB. If there is an error in the design it’s easy enough to quickly fix by cutting traces and adding wires.
Thanks for the video. My takeaway is that building with wires, solder and generic PCBs is always a prototype or demo. Outsourcing professionally made PCBs is now a goal of mine. But I saved my self a lot of trouble by watching your video!
I tried to make a midi controller a couple month's ago with 48 pots and 16 buttons with leds on each button, a MIDI mixer basically. Strips for volume, balance, sends, etc, and buttons for mute and solo. I did it with those kind of boards that have stripes instead of dots, and rapidly realized it was a mistake to do it this way. It was nice to test it and that, specially for me that I have literally 0 idea of electronics/programming etc, it's my first time. I'm waiting now for my PCB's to arrive from China. I just decided to read a lot and watch TH-cam videos (yours actually a few of them, I'll drop the sub now), and made my own schematics and PCB's, even with the arduino integrated on in. I just took a leonardo and disoldered the ATmega, so I can temporally "press" a new one to flash it, and then solder it to the PCB. If it works, I can give you maybe a hand with that. Let's pray for it! I promiso nothing. Oh btw, no, you didn't fail. Trying is never failing.
Thank you for sharing this. I wish i had seen this before i spent two months trying to build my midi electric motor synth lol. Making can be such a surprisingly emotional journey. There were so many times i wanted to take the whole mess and just throw it in the trash lol. But finally, it works.. yay. as long i dont' bump it, or sneeze, or look at it funny. lol. Thank you for sharing this. Next time I do something this big, I think i'll avoid protoboard and plan my wiring better.
dude... im so fucking a fan of you and i think you making great projects with a great bravery, im not an expert of building midi's but im so sure that your next try you gonna kill it.. thanks for sharing your experience youre the best
Great, honest story. I have a project still on the shelf that suffers the exact same issue. Several analog drum voices that work fine on the bench, but get frustratingly hard to debug when I tried to combine them in one big project. Mostly due to wiring. But from these projects you learn the most I think!
Hi Gustavo! I have watched your videos for a while and I have already build a very simple controller (4 slider potentiometers and 4 rotary encoders) using your codes. My firsts tests were a complete mess because I was also using wires for everything... The solution for me was to design a PCB in EasyEDA and solder every component without using wires. I have never understood why you don't desing your PCB's to avoid the use of wires. This is a great video and your channel is awesome. Saludos desde Chile!
Really love this video and your other videos too. Somebody commented below about using a PCB, this is absolutely the way to go. Good luck with the version two, can’t wait to see the video! You remind me of a lot of the Notes and Volts TH-cam channel as well. Watching Dave do a couple MIDI controller videos is how I got my start.
Thanks!! I have been spending most of my time the past days designing PCBs, so you can expect new videos with PCBs! Notes and Volts helped me a lot in the begining too!
Cara, meu primeiro controlador foi com uma pcb universal tbm, e que luta kkkkkkkkkkkkk a placa ficou cheia de gambiarras, e o mais incrível é que no fim das contas funcionou. Da próxima vez que eu for usar uma pcb universal eu vou marcar as trilhas que eu for usar com a canetinha e colocar a placa no percloreto, que ai depois da corrosão só vai sobrar as ilhas que a solda vai passar e eu vou poder tacar o estanho sem medo de cair pras trilhas do lado kkk mesmo assim ainda é bom evitar passar uma trilha muito perto da outra.
Building a multiple VCO synth I managed to get not one or two, but all the IC sockets backwards. Schmidt triggers and other such ICs don't much like it when you hook them up backwards or put power into the wrong pins. It was my monster Moog project. It wasn't midi or anything but a good solid synth with a euro rack plug-out panel on back. It took me nearly 6 months to work out all the niggles that didn't seem to work like they should. Like that controller there it worked a great until I tried fitting it up into an enclosure. It all went fine I thought until I switched it on. Some of the passives, transistors and the like had gone bad. So in conclusion: After giving all the ICs a flip, replacing a few caps and trannies I finally got it working. It sounded brilliant and I rather wish I hadn't sold it. Life being what it is some bloke offered me the "I can't say no" price for which I bought a Nord Electro and a Native Instruments Maschine Mk2. Being a labor of love I didn't have a time constraint or someone breathing down my neck because it's not done yet. What I learned was profound when it comes to building things. Modularity is a beautiful thing. The more modular something is, the easier it is to work on when something goes wrong. Socketable components are a godsend because it makes changing the bad bits so much easier. Designing things to handle twice the rated values because we all know how people like to push it misuse things. It's a bit more expensive that way but it leaves you peace of mind that whatever it is isn't going to break easily. Fit and Finnish are important but don't get worked up if it's not perfect because anything hand made can't be. Something to remember is that successes have many siblings but failure is hopefully an only child. What that means is that failure happens and if we learn from it, we never make that particular mistake again leaving it the "only child" of course. Those mistakes though, those are what we learn from so they're all more or less the family of success which is what happens when we manage to avoid said mishaps.
I've built arcade games, and many many drones from parts. This build you have here...wow, after seeing some of the issues you had to deal with, you did really good . Not a fail, by any means.
Using wire isn't really a problem if you use ribon cable fitted with female pin header. You just use a male pin header on your multiplexer board to link the two. It also help when you've to service the thing later on. You can color code them for easy connecting.
Thanks for sharing! I've had a lot of success with addressable LEDs. Only 3 wires and 16million colours 😊 I wish there was a button version so you could have a strip of buttons chained together on the same wire!
I feel your pain. I like the snappable proto boards bc they can be superglued together to make wider boards as needed. Also, I’ve built a few rat nests as well, where individual sections worked perfectly, but once assembled, everything became unreliable. I’m thinking hard about really digging in and learning to design PCBs moving forward. Besides, stripping all those wires is such a pain!
It's nice to watch a video that shows an ambition train wreck, instead of 1,2,3 perfect. I thought I was the only one that did stuff like this hahaha, Great video ;)
This is my first exposure to this idea. I have a question for an idea that this gives me. Is it possible to make patch cable inputs that will transmit the data of a cable plugged in to a software synth through midi?
you don't have to give up, why don't you try designing the pcb and manufacturing them in jlcpcb? a clean and good quality work will come out, don't give up, lots of encouragement !
I'm a little lost as to why you did not just order some PCBs? IDC connectors would have also sorted out your cabling issues as you could run ribbon cables from board to board and save a lot of headache/s attempting to fit it in to an enclosure...
Estas placas são terríveis mesmo. Já tive um problema similar ao fazer um pedal Fuzz para guitarra. O ideal é mesmo desenhar uma pcb em um software como o KiCad e minimizar a quantidade de fios. Sobre os processos para retirar o cobre das placas, um me chamou a atenção: usinagem em 2D. Pela aparente simplicidade e por não ser químico, que gerar residuos.
I feel much better about my struggles now. Putting a working circuit into a box without breaking it can be a real challenge. My approach is to build smaller circuits and use bigger boxes. And use lots of zip ties and hot glue. Every step is an improvement, but I'm still learning.
great videos.... i have a question.... how easy would it be to build a midi controller with rotary encoders? I want make something to control my DAW and plugins.
Hi, I just started watching yesterday & I love your videos! Just a (stupid?) question from a noob: don't the LED's need resistors? Greetings from Belgium!
You should also practice your soldering skills. It is really not at the level it should be for a commissioned project. The protoboard was a bad choice right off the bat, however there's better ways to use it without these constant shorts. The main weakness of these boards is that their pads come off very easily if heated too much, say when you desolder stuff - however that didn't seem to be a problem for you here. For example, those angled wires at 7:12 should just go straight down to the copper trace. Always remember that the wire is bad. bad, bad, bad. You will notice large companies avoid them like the plague in their designs and you have just found out why - they are so incredibly time consuming and take up so much space. On this example, you could make provisions for mounting the multiplexer or shift register ICs directly on the PCB of the controls they are reading. That way you immediately reduce the wires you need to take off board to 5 from 10 (and even 5 from 34, if you used multiple cascaded shift registers)- remember you always need 2 for the supply traces. I think the most important lesson is that you were not ready to do a big project like this with professional quality. The low price you asked for it is not a good motivator either, and if you also factor in all the time wasted, you probably forfeited any kind of profit you were supposed to make. Being a hobby maker has different requirements from being a pro maker. Both are absolutely valid, no disrespect to the hobbyist attitude, but there's a learning curve to get you from making stuff for fun to making something that is guaranteed to work and turn in a profit.
I know what you mean about component availability in Brazil, I was in England (my birth place) and using eBay, RS, Farnell Amazon. But in Brazil you need to Mail order or wait for Aliexpress. Still, Brazil is a better country for climate, food, natural beauty etc
Selfmade electronic is never cheaper as buy a finisched product. You can't buy large amounts of electronic components, like a big company is doing. And if you calculate your time you invest, then it will cost a lot more as the same tool cost from a company. And also a reason is you have to solder tons of cabels. But at least, it is a nice hobby and you get things unique, but never it is cheaper :)
@@NerdMusician that sounds cool! I'm curious about this. 1- would you design one "big" piece of PCB for the whole controller or would you make several smaller ones, one per module? 2- are you going to hand solder the components on the PCB? Keep up the good work! :)
The worst mistake you did was bad planning. First of all you try to sell a prototype at cheap! As some others pointed to you, this kind of project requires pcb designing and manufacturing (even on diy building with toner transfer and acid attack etc) so you can design each board with a proper connector for a flat cable (those used inside computers) so you can cut them after place everything on place (but sometimes connectors also made fit altogether impossible so another iteration...) and also designing the mux and shift registers boards with "zocalos" helps you to debug what's going on... (a bad solder joint? a bad chip?) without wanting to kill yourself ;P bbbbuuuuuutttttttttt...... as long as you start doing all of this and put the right price on the most expensive part (your income) then you figure that this isn't worth (or it will be very expensive). Next time just say to the client: "Did you see those Yaeltex controllers?" BTW great stuff in your project Nerd Musician and keep the hopes high mate! You are doing very well
Also making a PCB save a lot soldering work. There are companies making the PCB for you. Also it give app's how generate PCB layers from you circuit plan.
Hey man I feel for you, I know that feeling of whether you should keep trying to make it work (and know that it could fail at any time) or face the fact that you've wasted money and time and start again, or abandon the project. Anyway, this time wasn't lost, since you learnt a lot, and you even came up with a pretty nice video explaining a failure, which is rare in these instagram times where people seem to make incredible stuff in no time and without effort. Cheers
You didn’t fail .many wouldn’t have got as far as you did . And you learn from what you did . And you sharing this video teaches others . I wish you the best on all your other projects
exactly, no fail but a huge learning process. I have had this so often, that my current WoW is super strong, failing makes your better (and spend your time better, now, and next time!)
Nice video - tragic design 🤣 I wonder if the best would have been designing a custom PCB for the whole panel and use something like JLCPCB to deliver it.
Um grande abraço desde a Espanha 🇪🇸 Eu sinto que meu canal no TH-cam não seria viável se eu estivesse morando no Brasil 🇧🇷😕
I already decided I'll design the PCBs and order from JLCPCB, so can't wait to get rid of all that wire. :p
And great job with your channel! Doing amazing... And yeah, we have to work with what we got. It's HARDER, but doable... :p
I agree, I would just skip the wired prototype and go straight to custom PCB. If there is an error in the design it’s easy enough to quickly fix by cutting traces and adding wires.
@@dmosey604 You are totally right.
Thanks for the video. My takeaway is that building with wires, solder and generic PCBs is always a prototype or demo. Outsourcing professionally made PCBs is now a goal of mine. But I saved my self a lot of trouble by watching your video!
You are totally right! There's a size limit that one should limit to use wires.
@@NerdMusician Sounds like a future video!
I tried to make a midi controller a couple month's ago with 48 pots and 16 buttons with leds on each button, a MIDI mixer basically. Strips for volume, balance, sends, etc, and buttons for mute and solo. I did it with those kind of boards that have stripes instead of dots, and rapidly realized it was a mistake to do it this way. It was nice to test it and that, specially for me that I have literally 0 idea of electronics/programming etc, it's my first time.
I'm waiting now for my PCB's to arrive from China. I just decided to read a lot and watch TH-cam videos (yours actually a few of them, I'll drop the sub now), and made my own schematics and PCB's, even with the arduino integrated on in. I just took a leonardo and disoldered the ATmega, so I can temporally "press" a new one to flash it, and then solder it to the PCB. If it works, I can give you maybe a hand with that. Let's pray for it! I promiso nothing.
Oh btw, no, you didn't fail. Trying is never failing.
Thank you for sharing this. I wish i had seen this before i spent two months trying to build my midi electric motor synth lol. Making can be such a surprisingly emotional journey. There were so many times i wanted to take the whole mess and just throw it in the trash lol. But finally, it works.. yay. as long i dont' bump it, or sneeze, or look at it funny. lol. Thank you for sharing this. Next time I do something this big, I think i'll avoid protoboard and plan my wiring better.
Yeah man, unfortunately we don’t have many “fail” videos around so we can learn with other people’s mistakes instead of ours. :p
Thanks for making this video, at least there are lessons learned to share with everyone.
Yeah, I hope I learned a thing or two! haha
dude... im so fucking a fan of you and i think you making great projects with a great bravery, im not an expert of building midi's but im so sure that your next try you gonna kill it.. thanks for sharing your experience youre the best
Great, honest story. I have a project still on the shelf that suffers the exact same issue. Several analog drum voices that work fine on the bench, but get frustratingly hard to debug when I tried to combine them in one big project. Mostly due to wiring. But from these projects you learn the most I think!
Hi Gustavo! I have watched your videos for a while and I have already build a very simple controller (4 slider potentiometers and 4 rotary encoders) using your codes. My firsts tests were a complete mess because I was also using wires for everything... The solution for me was to design a PCB in EasyEDA and solder every component without using wires. I have never understood why you don't desing your PCB's to avoid the use of wires.
This is a great video and your channel is awesome. Saludos desde Chile!
Really love this video and your other videos too. Somebody commented below about using a PCB, this is absolutely the way to go. Good luck with the version two, can’t wait to see the video!
You remind me of a lot of the Notes and Volts TH-cam channel as well. Watching Dave do a couple MIDI controller videos is how I got my start.
Thanks!! I have been spending most of my time the past days designing PCBs, so you can expect new videos with PCBs! Notes and Volts helped me a lot in the begining too!
Cara, meu primeiro controlador foi com uma pcb universal tbm, e que luta kkkkkkkkkkkkk a placa ficou cheia de gambiarras, e o mais incrível é que no fim das contas funcionou. Da próxima vez que eu for usar uma pcb universal eu vou marcar as trilhas que eu for usar com a canetinha e colocar a placa no percloreto, que ai depois da corrosão só vai sobrar as ilhas que a solda vai passar e eu vou poder tacar o estanho sem medo de cair pras trilhas do lado kkk mesmo assim ainda é bom evitar passar uma trilha muito perto da outra.
oh yes, the troubleshooting process, always a pure joy! :)))
Building a multiple VCO synth I managed to get not one or two, but all the IC sockets backwards. Schmidt triggers and other such ICs don't much like it when you hook them up backwards or put power into the wrong pins. It was my monster Moog project. It wasn't midi or anything but a good solid synth with a euro rack plug-out panel on back. It took me nearly 6 months to work out all the niggles that didn't seem to work like they should. Like that controller there it worked a great until I tried fitting it up into an enclosure. It all went fine I thought until I switched it on. Some of the passives, transistors and the like had gone bad. So in conclusion: After giving all the ICs a flip, replacing a few caps and trannies I finally got it working. It sounded brilliant and I rather wish I hadn't sold it. Life being what it is some bloke offered me the "I can't say no" price for which I bought a Nord Electro and a Native Instruments Maschine Mk2. Being a labor of love I didn't have a time constraint or someone breathing down my neck because it's not done yet.
What I learned was profound when it comes to building things. Modularity is a beautiful thing. The more modular something is, the easier it is to work on when something goes wrong. Socketable components are a godsend because it makes changing the bad bits so much easier. Designing things to handle twice the rated values because we all know how people like to push it misuse things. It's a bit more expensive that way but it leaves you peace of mind that whatever it is isn't going to break easily. Fit and Finnish are important but don't get worked up if it's not perfect because anything hand made can't be. Something to remember is that successes have many siblings but failure is hopefully an only child. What that means is that failure happens and if we learn from it, we never make that particular mistake again leaving it the "only child" of course. Those mistakes though, those are what we learn from so they're all more or less the family of success which is what happens when we manage to avoid said mishaps.
Can't wait for the finished project.
PCBs are on the way!
I've built arcade games, and many many drones from parts.
This build you have here...wow, after seeing some of the issues you had to deal with, you did really good . Not a fail, by any means.
I always use a poker for soldering pcb's it makes it easy to blob solder over all the pins at once.....
You making great stuff. I love youre projects.
Using wire isn't really a problem if you use ribon cable fitted with female pin header. You just use a male pin header on your multiplexer board to link the two. It also help when you've to service the thing later on. You can color code them for easy connecting.
Thanks for sharing! I've had a lot of success with addressable LEDs. Only 3 wires and 16million colours 😊 I wish there was a button version so you could have a strip of buttons chained together on the same wire!
And this kids is why we learn how to PCB design. Good Luck!
I feel your pain. I like the snappable proto boards bc they can be superglued together to make wider boards as needed. Also, I’ve built a few rat nests as well, where individual sections worked perfectly, but once assembled, everything became unreliable. I’m thinking hard about really digging in and learning to design PCBs moving forward. Besides, stripping all those wires is such a pain!
Yes, man, it can be a huge pain. I'll design PCBs for this controller and redo this part!
Thx for admitting your human. Ive made mistakes for 58 years. Never too old to learn about two's.
We make a loooot of them 🥲
lordy... try using a smaller soldertip or custom pcb,s
It's nice to watch a video that shows an ambition train wreck, instead of 1,2,3 perfect. I thought I was the only one that did stuff like this hahaha, Great video ;)
I love to see when people share this kind of stuff. And I fail a lot of times, so I think it should be part of the channel too!
@@NerdMusician :)
This is my first exposure to this idea. I have a question for an idea that this gives me. Is it possible to make patch cable inputs that will transmit the data of a cable plugged in to a software synth through midi?
Basic (in any electronics project) but helpfull ! In french, we say : Piqûre de rappel. 😉
you don't have to give up, why don't you try designing the pcb and manufacturing them in jlcpcb? a clean and good quality work will come out, don't give up, lots of encouragement !
Yes, that's exaclty what I am going to do! :D
was there never a part 2 for this?
Thanks for your lesson. You are right!
You are welcome!
Do you recommend wearing glasses for soldering? Please. Thanks
I'm a little lost as to why you did not just order some PCBs?
IDC connectors would have also sorted out your cabling issues as you could run ribbon cables from board to board and save a lot of headache/s attempting to fit it in to an enclosure...
Estas placas são terríveis mesmo. Já tive um problema similar ao fazer um pedal Fuzz para guitarra. O ideal é mesmo desenhar uma pcb em um software como o KiCad e minimizar a quantidade de fios. Sobre os processos para retirar o cobre das placas, um me chamou a atenção: usinagem em 2D. Pela aparente simplicidade e por não ser químico, que gerar residuos.
I feel much better about my struggles now. Putting a working circuit into a box without breaking it can be a real challenge. My approach is to build smaller circuits and use bigger boxes. And use lots of zip ties and hot glue. Every step is an improvement, but I'm still learning.
great videos.... i have a question.... how easy would it be to build a midi controller with rotary encoders? I want make something to control my DAW and plugins.
Hi, I just started watching yesterday & I love your videos!
Just a (stupid?) question from a noob: don't the LED's need resistors?
Greetings from Belgium!
You should also practice your soldering skills. It is really not at the level it should be for a commissioned project.
The protoboard was a bad choice right off the bat, however there's better ways to use it without these constant shorts. The main weakness of these boards is that their pads come off very easily if heated too much, say when you desolder stuff - however that didn't seem to be a problem for you here. For example, those angled wires at 7:12 should just go straight down to the copper trace.
Always remember that the wire is bad. bad, bad, bad. You will notice large companies avoid them like the plague in their designs and you have just found out why - they are so incredibly time consuming and take up so much space. On this example, you could make provisions for mounting the multiplexer or shift register ICs directly on the PCB of the controls they are reading. That way you immediately reduce the wires you need to take off board to 5 from 10 (and even 5 from 34, if you used multiple cascaded shift registers)- remember you always need 2 for the supply traces.
I think the most important lesson is that you were not ready to do a big project like this with professional quality. The low price you asked for it is not a good motivator either, and if you also factor in all the time wasted, you probably forfeited any kind of profit you were supposed to make.
Being a hobby maker has different requirements from being a pro maker. Both are absolutely valid, no disrespect to the hobbyist attitude, but there's a learning curve to get you from making stuff for fun to making something that is guaranteed to work and turn in a profit.
That was what I thought. And I'm glad I didn't spend time to write a comment about it, because he didn't even bother to reply to yours.
seems like a nice channel though...
A caixa ficou boa para construir um synth analógico.
To curtindo bastante esses cases em madeira!
I know what you mean about component availability in Brazil, I was in England (my birth place) and using eBay, RS, Farnell Amazon. But in Brazil you need to Mail order or wait for Aliexpress. Still, Brazil is a better country for climate, food, natural beauty etc
Nice! You Upload Files?
very brave, such a shame!
Yeahhh, you will do it! You never gave up. Dont do it now! haha. Good luck!
Waiting for the PCBs!
why didn't you design a PCB board?
Now I did, it's on the way!
Selfmade electronic is never cheaper as buy a finisched product. You can't buy large amounts of electronic components, like a big company is doing. And if you calculate your time you invest, then it will cost a lot more as the same tool cost from a company. And also a reason is you have to solder tons of cabels. But at least, it is a nice hobby and you get things unique, but never it is cheaper :)
Today i will start a digital mixer using like 50 analog port without pcb, wish me luck
tl;dr: "i put too many buttons on it"
I hope you learned to solder since this video 😜🤣
Tayda Electronics!!!!!!
your not a loser if you learn!
Invest in learning soldering with flux... you wont regret it...
I just buy your course in spooky discount :-) I have stuck with my arduino project for VCV Rack and I hope that your course will help me :-)
Lemme know in the group if you have doubts!
How you learned English so good?
I learned at school early, but I lived in the USA for three years. :)
Its time to learn easyEDA and buy pcb to China my friend :)
In the beginning I thought that would be doable without it, but nope. I'm already designing the PCBs, so wait for the next episode! haha
@@NerdMusician that sounds cool! I'm curious about this.
1- would you design one "big" piece of PCB for the whole controller or would you make several smaller ones, one per module?
2- are you going to hand solder the components on the PCB?
Keep up the good work! :)
hint : PCB PCB PCB PCB PCB PCB ;)
This project will ressurect with PCBs. Wait for me.
Downvote for not recording suicide attempts. Are you a flamenco/classical guitarist?
Maybe next time. hahah Yeah, I play the guitar! Yeah, the nails... :p
The worst mistake you did was bad planning. First of all you try to sell a prototype at cheap! As some others pointed to you, this kind of project requires pcb designing and manufacturing (even on diy building with toner transfer and acid attack etc) so you can design each board with a proper connector for a flat cable (those used inside computers) so you can cut them after place everything on place (but sometimes connectors also made fit altogether impossible so another iteration...) and also designing the mux and shift registers boards with "zocalos" helps you to debug what's going on... (a bad solder joint? a bad chip?) without wanting to kill yourself ;P bbbbuuuuuutttttttttt...... as long as you start doing all of this and put the right price on the most expensive part (your income) then you figure that this isn't worth (or it will be very expensive).
Next time just say to the client: "Did you see those Yaeltex controllers?"
BTW great stuff in your project Nerd Musician and keep the hopes high mate! You are doing very well