The second hand market is like a double edged sword, on the one hand you could get a great train, but on the other hand, you could get very ripped off.
I agree, i've personally never gotten ripped off, but I dont have any new locomotives except my bachmann jinty and dapol mogul GWR because alot of them are out of my price range, thats why i only really have 1950s-2000 locomotives, as those are better for me and more simple anyway.
@@Cosmos-mz5ut The original Hornby, Triang, Trix and Wren locos are far more robust and reliable than todays overpriced ones. Most of my collection are from the 60/70's and still run well without all this DCC expense.
I have had mixed experience with buying second hand over the years. When I started collecting model railways, I was in my late teens and at college and did not have much cash. So, second hand was pretty much my only option. This was 30 years ago now and was fine and some good stuff. Note that this was mainly via my local model shop or at exhibitions. I have recently purchased some second-hand locos online but ended up having to send these back as they were not as described, damaged, or did not run. The world of Ebay is not all it is cracked up to be. I was lucky in that the sellers agreed for me to return the items, and I was fully refunded, including the postage. My big bug bare is that alot of second hand item are priced at not much less than the full retail price when brand new. To me, a second-hand item should be substantially less price than new, irrespective of whether it has never been used or otherwise. As the cost of new models has rocketed it feels like people selling secondhand items are ripping everyone off. The other issue is that people buy up loads of preorder items with no intention of using or wanting them and then put these on Ebay the day after they receive them at a higher price. I have given up on the secondhand market for now but will still look at items when I am at exhibitions or in my local model shop.
I almost exclusively buy second hand. You can get some great models for half the price of a comparable new one, sometimes even less. This goes especially for cars and coaches. It also helps that I have a great shop nearby.
A decent number of my model trains are second hand, being acquired from places like eBay or the different marketplace sites, or even train shows and antique malls
If you are buying a secondhand model from an auction site steer clear of sellers that offer "No Refunds" This could mean that there is something wrong with the model that the seller is not telling you. Martin. (Thailand)
Good advice Sam. I never buy new any more and have an upper limit on cost. I have fallen foul of ebay once but with superglue solder and stuff from my trusty spares box fixed the problem. I did pay a good price though!
Sam all good advice remember re that a shop is subject to sale of goods act re merchantable quality but a private seller is not. So worth checking status of who you are dealing with. Also EBay do provide quite resilient protection for buyers but less for sellers in my experience.
I am waiting for a Marklin 28506 ReinGold Train-set rated at C-7 excellent condition. The pictures are clear and thr set looks beautiful. thw seller included ; NOT TESTED in the discription and he accepted an offer of three hundred bucks. His rating is a hundred percent as a seller but it seems odd that it wasn't tested. I will cross my finger and hope all is well.
I don't like going second hand because it should be an option. These are just really expensive toys after all, because trains rarely come in kit form, and no elbow grease has to go into them (bite me),, so IMO, I see it as being told that my first car cannot be a a classic car, or modern sports car, but rather a junker. Once you connect the dots, you cannot unsee it. These are toys, shouldn't have to go used (second hand) because manufactures are greedy.
Can't find a second-hand bargain these day's, you can't blame people, they have paid so much for the loco brand new they want to get their money back when selling it.
Marklin locos made over 30 years ago that haven't been run will seize up since the oil that was used has gummed up. The Germans call the oil "Getriebekleister (transmission glue). If you know that, it's a simple matter to take out the motor armature and use WD40 to unstick the gears. The loco will run like a champ after that. I've bought several 1980s vintage non-runners and brought them back to life. Apart from the satisfaction of fixing something, it's also a great money saver.
I’ve bought loads of second hand models off eBay. My first loco that I purchased was a used Proto 2000 BL2 locomotive for about $25 but it was disclosed that it ran rough and It likely was suffering from split axle gears. After a quick search for the gears and how to replace them, it ran sweetly and to this day years later it still glides along smooth as silk. I often go for used models cause I do enjoy tinkering with them and bringing them back to life.
I think that buying models in person (like model shows or physical retailers) tends to yield the best results for second-hand models. I much prefer buying older models at shows like Model Rail Scotland (you can probably work out my local area from that) which are really sent out there to be bought, and will be discounted often if not picked up. You can always bring a 9v to the place and check models are in good running order, and also just inspect them generally.
shops and shows getting fewer, (in south wales at least), I tend to limit myself to hornby mechs (ringfield) or lima as I carry large stock of spares and standardise on mechs
Sam, the first 2 minutes of this video is some of the most clear, concise and well-articulated presenting I've ever seen. It's quite an unintuitve concept and you explained it fantastically.
One tip i can give is you are buying used models online ensure that there a clear photo's of all sides of the model. Some sellers only show one side, this could mean that you end up with a damaged or incomplete model. Also check the sellers feedback, a string of negatives warns you to stay clear.
@@Benji_transport_vids A good point, having been conned a few times even by a well know retailer that has just closed, i now never buy anything that i can't see a full set of original photo's of.
Or even worse, they show photos of the box, but not what's in the box! Not touching those ones. I have actually picked up a couple of nice ones where the photos weren't great. Good price on auction because others avoided, turned out the seller wasn't trying to hide anything they just weren't very good at taking photos. Is a gamble though, could go either way.
I buy a lot of secondhand locos and what you have said is really good advice. I think virtually all you have said is what I do. Generally all the locos have been good buys but occasionally I get a duff one. The next thing that I always think is, " did the person know there was a fault or they genuinely didn't know". Fortunately I can fix most locos and I always work on the assumption when I buy on EBay, of "how much can I lose". The thing that also gets me is the amount of "non runners" I have bought where it is a simple repair or someone has fitted DCC, possibly died, and their relations sold it to a Dealer who because they only know about DC list it as a non runner. Some locos that I buy work but not properly and often I get the opinion that the fault was there from new. The person that is selling it, forgets why they don't run it anymore and just lists it as perfect. I bought a second hand 8F that kept derailing, I eventually found that one set of wheels weren't moving freely. I had to file the slot where the bearings fit ever so slightly and then it was perfect. Something like that has got to have been there since new.
I find some model clubs, sometimes sell off old items. These are often well looked after and serviced properly and most won't rip you off. I recently bought a LMS black five made by Airfix for £35 and they were more than happy for me to see it run before I bought it. Not only did it come with the original box, but It doesn't have any Glue marks or anything.
100% good advice here also keep in mind there are a couple of sorts of online thing, like trying to get something reasonably recent for a reasonable price, of what I've spent the past few weeks on, buying very cheap stuff and taking the risk - accepting its older stuff. I have however gotten six locos for less than the price of a single "new" one.. all old, but good enough to get started with does help being willing to open stuff up and Sam's point on read the description is spot on, also the pictures - are there bits not being shown? but good way to sport nasties when "the pictures for part of the description" - e.g. missing couplings, really horrible repaints or damage like scratches and missing parts. further if bidding stuff, bid what its worth to you and then walk away, don't get drawn in to "must win", and also look up what getting the thing would cost from somewhere like a model shop, there are plenty of jokers selling stuff second hand for new or nearly new prices, and above in some cases.
One thing you totally glossed over is the uprise of AI generated item descriptions on eBay, I’ve seen things like “Graham Farish OO Merchant Navy… …Is a “ready-to-go” and “pre-built” model” when the model has clearly succumbed to zinc pest, or “Graham Farish OO GWR King… …Has a 4-6-2 wheel configuration”, or “The gauge is OO and the scale is 1:148”
Very useful video Sam. I have bought (and sold) many trains (mostly locomotives) through eBay, and a few other dealers. I find that it is very important to know about the item you are considering buying. This includes the reputation of the brand (some are better than others), any reviews of the models (such as watching your videos), and, as you pointed out, read the descriptions carefully. Also, when bidding on a model, bid with your head, not over it. There have been a few times when I so wanted a model that I bid way more than I should have. After receiving it I had buyer's remorse for spending so much money on it. Now, I set a limit as to how much I am willing to pay. If I win, great, if I lose, well, there will probably be another one available in the future which I might win.
Hi Sam! I have a question that might be interesting for others wanting to buy second-hand. I've been considering getting some 1990s Hornby tender driven locomotives, such as A3s and A4s, but I saw people saying that these models from the 90s will have problems running on tracks smaller than code 100. I use kato unitrack, and this is a serious issue, considering that the locomotives might derail on points and something like that. I also saw some tests with Hornby locomotives (the caledonian 0-4-0t) in which they did well on these tracks. However, I think it's important to know, since I want to be certain about it. So I'd like to know if these 1990s tender driven locos can be problematic when running on code 83, and if so, if there's a way to modify then to run in these kinds of tracks. Thank you for your content! It's been really helpful since I started on model railways
Being located in the US I have found that ordering locos online can be fraught with issues. This is especially true since several manufacturers have had problems with producing drive gears that crack over time. Hornby and Bachmann are well known for this. I have found that if a description says it is a non-runner or unreliable, etc. then it is best to pass on it unless you have an extensive parts collection. In my most recent case I ordered a Hornby West Country Class loco from a well known company that is no longer in business and in spite of being described a good runner it arrived with a split gear. The model was old enough that Hornby had “lost” the mold and so is no longer able to produce replacements. I finally figured out a way to create a 3D printed gear and fixed it myself. Since then I only buy pre-owned locos from Rails of Sheffield as I know they do test and guarantee their models to be as good as new, but that is only for those sold on their website, their eBay store is a different matter. I think Ellis Clark also is a good source.
I’ve asked before and I realize you’re busy and have video ideas planned a ways in advance, but I’d like to reiterate that I’d love to see a video on the most essential locomotives and rolling stock someone should get if they just starting a British model collection. For me, I don’t care so much about era and company, I’m just curious to know what you consider is essential to have as part of a collection. Thanks!
I just wait and stock up money for a model train show and buy stuff there. The people there show their models for sale in use, and on track you even bring it, granted only if it’s in the same scale
Thank you so much for this video Sam! I got stung by the slightly seedier side of the second hand market last year, as I found and bought a Hornby J36 "Maude" on eBay. The seller claimed it was "mint condition" and "never run", and the photos seemed to support that. Then the model arrived and... well. The problems were: - The seller had snapped off and lost the smokebox dart and side oil valve. - Removed the detail pack. They only sent through the detail pack after I chased them up about it, only to find that the snowplough had been smashed to bits and that half of the brake rigging was absent. - The tarpaulin roll on the cab was hanging off - Tender was missing several screws (all of which were thankfully in the box but looked like they had just been thrown in). - Turns out the model hadn't been serviced in years, so I had to take it apart again to clean (and in one case replace) the pickups, lubricate the wheels, re-solder the motor wires and re-gauge the wheels before it started running adequately. - Motor core needed replacing, something followed by A LOT of mechanism cleaning. After all that, I'm happy to report the J36 is back in service, thanks to replacement parts from more reputable sellers (thank you Monk Bar Models!), but I'm now very careful with second hand sellers, considering I wanted a miniature reproduction of the locomotive, not a miniature version of a locomotive restoration!
same here, i'm very careful now what i pick, or what im willing to spend money on parts for buying secondhand. The big name products are much easier to get parts for....It's the chance we take buying used if you cant physically inspect it or know what to look for in damage from photos.
So fair I've had decent experiences buying second-hand, including a "non runner" that actually ran perfectly but one thing that annoys me is the people selling new models from the likes of Accurascale and Cavalex for 3 to 4 times the original RRP
E-Bay prices have gone up quite a bit in the last year or so. I have given up on bidding their due to the fact most decent stuff is getting swipe bids at the last few seconds of the auction, which I done by a third party website. Toy fairs are the best places to get models now. Watching an item on E-bay sometimes pays off. The seller will make you an offer! Rails of Sheffield are still trying to sell an old Hornby coach (worth £10) for £29.50 plus post - on E-Bay! That's a rip off! You would think better of the "biggest seller of model railways in the UK" - their words!
You have to be careful I got done my a certain retailer who has a stall on the northwest and is on line said to have been fully serviced in full working order ,good job I had spares as postage to return was alot ,I best not tell you who he is but he’s no angel
I’ve found going to toy fairs is the place for bargains. This is especially true for coaches and wagons. I avoid eBay for the most part but the occasional bargain comes up.
In the US secondhand sales are "buyer beware." As soon as you exchange money with someone for an object, it's yours and the seller has zero responsibility. Lots of people here get screwed for that. It sometimes turns into a cycle where people end up selling the product they got scammed with to someone else because the financial hit is too much to bear.
It seems that the new practice is to list a hundred variations of the same model, all available as pre-orders. That means you either commit early, or miss the chance to pick up what you want. This is particularly irksome to us foreign (US) buyers, as there are no over-the-counter sales of UK locos or rolling stock here. (There are outlets carrying scenic and electrical items, but, again, only by on-line/mail unless you are fortunate enough to live close to a retailer, and that means within a hundred miles or so.)
I've bought a couple of job lots on eBay in the past, they usual contain several older train sets and are a great way to instantly bulk out your collection cheaply when starting out!
Just today, I got in a train from an ebay auction, except instead of a 300 dollar brass locomotive I got two 20 dollar cars and haven't heard from the seller yet.
Great video, I live in Mexico and model railroad is very different from UK or USA, I will use the idea an adapt to make a video for latino market. Also I would love to make a program with you. Regards from Mexico. Eduardo
Thanks so much for the advice Sam - i love buying second hand, especially from model ships, but facebook marketplace, that's a big no-no - I lost 40 quid there as it was a scam :( I also love the process of fixing locos, as i find it very rewarding! As always, great video sam!
I've only bought a few bits via FB Marketplace - and from a local chap where I could go and have a look at the items before I actually handed over any cash. That worked well IMHO, but I'd be leery of buying something from further afield. At least with eBay - as much as they are a pain in the proverbial if you're a seller - as a buyer you do get some good protection.
I’m sorry it’s just better to buy things from the source because you won’t get scammed and much safer option than going to these unreliable sources unless you go to a local train convention selling those products then buy but if it’s not that do not buy those products
On the returns I have a Heljan Lion which I bought from the UK and when I received it wouldn't run because one drive shaft had come out from one side of the motor with both bogies being driven. The shop I bought it from told me of a bodge job to fix it, but I sent the loco back to Heljan in Denmark from Australia. Heljan fixed it and also refunded the postage costs and told me I was wise not to try the bodge job that the model railway shop in the UK had recommended as it would have instantly voided the warranty on the loco. Heljan would have still fixed it but they would have charged me to do it and probably not refunded the postage costs. I also bought a new Bachmann Class 24 and one plastic bogie frame was not fitting properly and Bachmann sent me free of charge a replacement. They have their own repair department where people send their locos and one chap sent a standard 4 tank with a note attached "nobody has touched this loco". Yet the repair people could see the teeth marks on the loco where the family dog had been chewing on it. Then these people will go online and say that Bachmann doesn't care about customer service because they had to pay. But that's the trouble we only get to hear one side of the argument not both sides. Bit I did get to see both sides of an argument when a local model shop here sold a new loco to a bloke who took it home and dropped it breaking the loco. He tried to get a refund and the model shop said no. He then went on Google reviews saying that the model shop knowingly sells defective locos. But the model shop owner replied to the the review saying TELL THE TRUTH!. You bought the loco brand new took it home and dropped it onto a hard service breaking it and then you returned to our shop demanded a refund even though you admitted that you broke the loco.
With how expensive things are for modelling now, I've only brought stuff second hand mostly from eBay as well, some things I've gotten and have been great, one or 2 though I've gotten to find either the issue wasn't mentioned in the listing or I've not checked the photos/description properly. I will say that N gauge stuff is stupidly priced most the time, second hand items such as wagons being sold for £30+, seriously?
An obvious solution to high prices is to buy less. That may sound glib, but how many trains do people need? Noting that nobody 'needs' a model in the true sense, it’s a discretionary purchase. The models I buy are very expensive (Japanese brass) but I don’t buy much. I keep seeing complaints about prices from people with pre-orders which are insane, indicating that whatever they say prices aren't the barrier they claim. For thrifty buyers s/h is an excellent option.
Another unmentioned avenue are model rail clubs. Many times, members either a) sell their own stuff at a bargain b) come into an estate sale if a member dies (I know our club had two recently) or c) may know someone or somewhere to get models at a bargain.
Maybe 80% of my 00 fleet has been bought 2nd hand? It's got me items much cheaper than brand new, and older items have given me the experience to fix things myself, so I'm not bothered if a loco doesn't work 100%. Last weekend at Model World Live, I picked up an Oxford Dean Goods from Oxford's own bargain bin for £45, because it had a supposed motor fault and was running slowly. Popped the body off, reseated the motor, and its working perfectly now. No real fixes needed.
I only order my 3 Rail o scale from eBay occasionally….that is due to the fact that I order all my models from a well known second hand shop in Georgia. They ship them to my home city in Florida rather quickly. Yesterday at 5PM I ordered the Hornby Diecast Boiler 92220 DCC/Sound fitted from them pre-owned and they shipped it this morning at 8am.
Not bought a single new train, all second hand ✋ not all great but 90% of mine worked or could be fixed. The market is very different now to 2 years ago, people getting greedy perhaps but the fact is I wouldn't pay more than £30-40 back then, lucky to get something for less than £50 now. Lucky I stocked up 😂
I've got a battle going on with Heljan My son bought me one of their new class 47s at NEC key model World, and Heljan charged him in Danish Króna which I'm sure is illegal, if its sold in the UK then it should be purchased in GBP £. The model is awful and totally wrong and unacceptable also no couplings or snow ploughs as shown , terrible rendition of the 47, contacted Heljan in Denmark and they asked for it to be sent back to them- thats cost me £20.60. They now have the model but say they havnt, yet I have proof it was signed and delivered their end, they're now refusing to refund so a court case could ensue but being out of the UK its gonna be hard to enforce. I suggest you review their new 47 - see fir yourself its a nightmare, wrong roof detail overly narrow front end, massive windscreen wipers over size headcode box etc etc You have never seen such a bigger pipe of poo if you tried - I lay down the challenge, watch out Heljan!
With more modern rolling stock the risk is certainly higher as they are more sophisticated, so more to go wrong. However older models are relatively simple and if you have a basic knowledge of electrics they are very easy to maintain and repair.
Want a 1980 Mainline Peak (Class 45 039 The Manchester Regiment)? Not sure if a runner, but it feels and looks good. And probably a good comparision piece with modern models. (BTW, The Manchester Regiment - real loco here - was royally screwed by British Rail, because the engine received a Heavy General Overhaul in late 1978 but it was withdrawn in 1980. I'd have been fuming at the waste of a Heavy General if I'd have been one of British Rails' accountants!)
I once nought a Heljan class 26 Brand New, non runner sold as seen, from Hattons. When it arrived, I put it on the track; nothing. Took the body off and thought "It can't be that?" It was. The DCC blanking plate was missing. I put in a spare one I had and 'Hey Presto' everything worked perfectly!!! I paid £34 for it. At tge time tge new ones were going for about £130. It's amazing what you can get 2nd hand/cheap???
honestly speaking about 80% of my collection is 2nd hand mostly because i simply can’t afford alot of brand new items where a new covered hopper would cost 65$ (51£) i could go to my local train shop and find a used one for 20$ (16£) now yes there are alot of things to be cautious about and if your just starting off i think a local train shop or train show is the best place to start because you have so many knowledgeable people willing to help you get started
For the modern producer of model trains the second hand market and ebay seems a big problem. I heard in an interview the CEO of Märklin, complaining about it. So what?
I always look on Sam's Trains as I'm new to the hobby so Sam's reviews helps. My favourite is a 2004 Hornby Mallard a great runner I have had problems and Sam's tips will help
i have "used" Ebay for a number of years...and made my experiences....mostly positive...just stick to your price limit and don't start any silly "bidding wars" with some folk which don't know how to use ebay...cheers ps---at the mo i'm not buying anymore....the cupboard is full.....haha...
Most of my early stuff was second hand.tbh. I still buy things second hand now but I do like to see them first. Oddly enough my first loco and coaches was a 16440 jinty and two LMS clerestory coaches in the Country Local train set, all of which I still have. And that was new in 1986. Thd only new loco I got between then and around 2006 was a Pacer for my 13th or 14th birthday. Can't remember which. But then I was picking up wagons for maybe £2 or £3 each, coaches for £4 or £5 from a local shop in Brighton and locos for about £20 like my Mainline class 45 and a Jubilee, also mainline but I sold that on and regretted it instantly as it ran well. I'd say I've got around half and half new and second hand models, although I'd say 3/4 of my coaches are second hand off Ebay. One good source of bargains is New old stock items that were on a shelf in the back room of a shop and maybe got forgotten about. Like you say it doesn't really help the shop out too much as they need to make a profit but sometimes you can find a gem. There's nothing wrong with them though, they're still new just an older edition of something. I got a new Bachmann vlassc45 that way, 45120 with split headcodes when Modelzone sold them off for £50. Mine was the one in the display case but I could have had a Bachhy 37 too. Maybe I should have done hehe.
Sorry for being so late to see this Sam, but I spent the a good portion of the day working on the Hobbytown E-unit set I just got off of ebay for only £40! After getting the lead unit working, I weighed it and found out that its 890 grams!!! Now I haven't even put any weights in, so its just the diecast body, frame, motor, flywheel, and bogies, but even with all the empty space, it is unstoppable. I cant even stop the motor (out of the body) by gripping it with my fingers. The other two E-units aren't as heavy, but for 40 quid, I can easily put hundreds of grams into them to make them powerhouses as well. How much did the Bachmann E7 weigh? Anyways, Thanks as always Sam!
WHAT'S wrong with the world!!!! Imagine Apple producing iPhones in limited numbers you had to pre-order to get them. And only produce the most popular models and colors in even more limited numbers. Surely we would pay two or four times the current (rediculous) price. Secondhand market would boom in place of being the nice it is now. Isn't the English business model just set-up due to the small size of the market. This rip-off way of business is (maybe) the only way they can make an existance in OO. Might I suggest a new Hornby range in H0 !!
I once bought an amtrak coach off ebay. It said it was HO scale, but when i got it, it was N scale! Eh, i liked it and kept it. I did see a listing for an HO loco that was actually an O scale. I notified the seller. They didnt know their model trains. Even admitted so. They did correct the listing. I happen to have that same model, plus the underside was an instant tell.
Useful 2nd hand buyer tips Sam. However you correctly advised buyers not to attempt repairs to items described and sold as in good or running condition purchased online or via eBay, etc. as it of course deprives the buyer of their legal right to return/refund. However in your Hornby black 5 review you have not practised what you preach as you stripped down the new but faulty locomotive, also identifying the running issues before you then returned it to the retailer for a full refund?
I have bought nearly all my rolling stock second hand and that is more than 50 items. Every one of them is a perfect runner, even though a bit of tweaking the back to backs is sometimes needed. All of them negotiate all my points which are old Hornby, new Peco, old Peco -about 25 of them - without any problems on a small but complex layout. Not quite the same for the locos though. The last one from ebay, a B B Class Hornby pacific from the early 2000s but clearly barely used would not reverse. The wheel bearings had all been dislodged. But not too difficult a job to repair.
mr Sam, i have bought everything i own second hand. And i have no problem trying to fix stuff that is broken. Sometimes i can not fix it, but most of the time i can. But this is obviously only the case with easy stuff. DC stuff. I am not a wizz kid and so i have not much experience with the newer stuff. DC is easy enough. Everybody can fix that. but now i have this question: Does it hurt to put a DCC locomotive on a DC layout? Will it work, or not, and why or why not, etc. Thanks for any response in advance.
Bought really terrible stuff once, decided never more. The guy was in financial trouble, so... Never more. There could be some wonderful pieces out there.
I've got a Hornby flying scotsman in br green. I had it for xmas in 1974. I sold all my stuff in early 1976 except this loco & an 060 loco. The scotsman hasn't been used since end of 1975. Its in its box in a draw now. I still hope to get going again one day.
Typically I go for the non-runners or locos in the £10-30 range. These normally can be assumed to be bad runners or show wear but with this assumption and the low price you can't go wrong! If it turns out to be bad you can just enjoy fixing it. Wouldn't risk spending more than £50 for second hand though!
I've always found that the manufacturers producing limited batches is bad for the modeller, take for example Bachmann Mk2/2a coaches. Many years ago they produced a batch of BSO/BFK/FK/TSO coaches in Network Southeast and Blue/Grey liveries, they seemed to produced the same number of each design. Obviously the TSO's went first, because of course a real train has more standard coaches than brakes or first class, that's why many years later there are still brakes and first class coaches on websites and no standard class coaches. It is almost as though the manufacturers are not aware of how the real trains are formed.
Well done, Sam. Just note that in the US, it's caveat emptor unless the seller specifically states that returns are ok. Even so, I would guesstimate that about 75% of my Marklin collection purchased over the last 20 years has been 2nd hand, much of it from Ebay. I've rarely gotten burned, and I've saved a boatload of money plus I've been able to get desirable pieces that are not easy to get. Apart from checking seller feedback, it's also important to stay disciplined and avoid "auction fever" when bidding. Decide on a maximum price you're willing to bid on and stick to it. If you lose, so be it. Chances are, an identical or similar item will come up again in the future. It's also a good idea to stick to analog technology. That way, you can buy and run old stuff without modification. Over the years, I've noticed that some people will dump pieces with older electronics for a song, yet they will still run fine on an analog layout. Therein is a great opportunity for those who want to stretch their dollars (or Pounds). Finally, see if you can get old catalogs for the manufacturer you're interested in. Some years ago, I was able to get an electronic archive of old Marklin catalogs going back to 1930. That has enabled me to research how long a given item was available and therefore gauge its rarity and guesstimate its value when deciding what to bid.
I very rarely buy new loco's........they are just too damn expensive, I always buy secondhand, sometimes you get stung, but the savings generally outweigh the losses.
Most of my collection is second hand. My best batgain was a brand new bachmann class 24 in rtc livery for half the price (£89) bachmann wanted for it, (£179).
Several traps on eBay. Do not send the product back until the vendor has sent the funds or return postage bar code. Cost me $60 from Australia and the vendor sold the model again for over £100. EBay said it was my fault and did not refund the postage. There are some wonderful vendors on eBay, but my experience with three has turned me off the site except as a last resort. One sent a return paid voucher for a courier service with its nearest depot in the next town (having sent the model by post). EBay thought this to be completely reasonable - even during Covid when travel was illegal. It refused to provide a refund. The vendor sent a torrent of abusive messages and eBay thought that did not need addressing. As I had paid with PayPal, I got my refund from their refund policy. The vendor continued his abuse - alleging I was trying to scam him, so I had to resort to the (Australian - Queensland) “Unordered Goods and Services Act” which treats objects differing from that which was ordered in a way which puts the onus on the vendor to collect the goods, failure to do so transfers ownership of the goods for free. Sam’s point about testing immediately is very important with eBay. Some vendors immediately go to the time limit on the complaints process (one misstated the period by shortening it by months), and I was actually days late because of a holiday. As the motor emitted smoke as soon as power was applied, I suspect the vendor knew full well the loco was not in good order. It is a shame for the numerous other wonderful vendors I have bought from on eBay who have been exemplary in dealing with issues, but I now buy only new from retailers as I do not need the stress.
Good morning mukka. Can you please do me a favour and advise me what your email address is so I can submit some trains pictures for consideration for your wall of fame. Cheers. Regards from Oz Gaz
When I first saw the "Cover Shot" of this Video I thought Wow Sam is Rocking a Mullet! 😂 It's a just an optical illusion from the shadow behind your head. Anyway Great Video. Lots of good advice.Thanks Sam. Cheers, Steve
I just shop online for wagons or dummy coaches/power cars, if I'm buying second hand locomotives I go to a model shop where I see it get tested or if it's damaged.
There will be different levels of hobbiest. I for one will never pay the horrific prices asked by Hornsby for new models. I suspect Hornsby will go bankrupt soon. Expensive unaffordable poor quality
It’s always risk … Risk = Probability x Consequence You can reduce the Probability of buying and being left with a dog by ensuring you can return the model and / or buying from a reputable source. Consequence. All about getting the model at the right price … So head has gotta rule heart here ….
I've never bought a new locomotive. They are just too expensive for me so I've only gotten them used. I've been pretty lucky, only 1 locomotive I bought used doesn't work, it was listed as unknown if it would work and was cheap enough I decided to try. If I knew more about repairs I could probably fix it, I think the motor is bound and needs cleaning or replacement.
This isn't boasting, but I haven't bought a brand new locomotive piece of rolling stock in about 25 years. It's not that I haven't wanted to, but just that the price sky rocketed way out of my price range, and the cost of postage from overseas just killed it for me. So I have concentrated on used equipment, often in poor condition, often just to give me experience in fixing things. I get a great deal of satisfaction in gathering bits and pieces together and ending up with a working locomotive. This last year, I have been able to purchase some locomotives from the local Australian eBay market that have been in new and practically unused condition. These items were part of deceased estates that were being sold off, and the prices were so very attractive. The trouble is, I have to curtail my purchasing, as I am running out of space. One question: do you ever spend a weekend just dusting off all of your engines and rolling stock, and have you ever evaluated your collection? Back in my teenage years, when I collected model aircraft, I used to spend days going over the models, just dusting them off.
I don't think I have ever bought anything new unless I had to or it was heavily discounted, maybe shoes & some clothes but never branded [I don't believe in paying for adverts or to look cool in the right name], chose carefully & or buy non runners for spares or fix, I worked in a car breakers yard for quite a while so got used to never buying new except filters & oil even the 'used'petrol was used in our cars I now work on Aircraft & if a part in not available in time then we borrow a part from another aircraft that's in long term maintenance The USAF has boneyard's yep the obsolete very old are scraped but all usable parts are removed first, newer stuff is preserved & often re-lifed & upgraded, its just a sales con to buy the shareholders their next luxury holiday or the CEO his 2nd private jet, non stop conditioning us to always want the latest.
I did not used to be frightened of secondhand, but I am very weary now. Firstly some experiences on E-bay. For example an item that people could bid on, was stated as DCC sound fitted with smoke. (because there was a bit of paper with it saying that). There was definitely no DCC chip nor smoke, nor any sign it had ever been fitted as such. I sent it back and e-bay agreed. Secondly, a lot of stuff has faults now but ask for a premium price. I really do not want to pay that price and then spend my time fixing someone else's problem. This is compounded by the fact that modern models are far more fragile than what went before and there are too many people out there that simply do not know how to handle them. And as you have shown, many sellers confusing old Lima items with modern super detailed items, claiming it as such and demanding a premium price. E-bay used to change for any non sales. They don't do that anymore, so there are also 1000s of items out there appearing all the time that never sell, but do draw in others to sell their own as such high prices too. I've decided life is too short for this hassle, and stick with new from reputable sellers.
i never give tips in my videos ,, i'd disagree with a percentage of what you say sam ,, but i don't give my online buying tips out because that is for my competition to work out for themselves ,, i'll just say i've had more good and outstnding deals than bad or average
I just paid £32 for a Lima class 26 on ebay 😬 too much... I also paid £16 for a slightly damaged modified hornby class 50 great price, until the postman rammed it in the letterbox and broke the body but being a modifier I've already repaired the body and rebuilt the chassis with new bufferbeams since they'd been cut off the chassis and glued into the body I hadn't oticed but its got different numbers on both sides. If your buying tnd hand I'd always try and get an aging model as there generally cheaper and easier to fix if they do turn out to be damaged in some way I want an accurascale 37 but I won't buy a 2nd hand one because of their price still being as high as brand new ones and parts aren't easy to get for them
Another thing to look out for is models for sale that have been upgraded by manufacturers such as Bachmann Class 20s, Hornby Brits etc. You might think you are getting the latest version, so always check the model number.
Good info Sam, yeh 2nd hand..hard to spot out defects or hairline cracks in driver wheels. Some models being decades old like rivarossi is hard to find parts for. on a particular casey jones 4-6-0, even their rivarestore site doesn't have the parts. Best to just buy new at a fair price on products that are well known, warranty's and with parts available. I also like to fix em, when its easy to get parts, i dont mind.. But there are deals to be had..its a cat/mouse game often times.
Have bought second hand locally in Australia and from UK and have been bitten yet, but I have been careful reading descriptions, checking photos etc before buying.
I’ve brought 2nd hand from Rails of Sheffield and TTCDiecast both reasonable priced and excellent condition. One even had a decoder still inside that I didn’t realise. Bonus.
Another great insight Sam, although, in the case of an auction. I would say you still need to research the going price of a product before bidding in order to protect yourself from Shill Bidding. It is especially a problem on eBay as despite it causing numerous problems and frustrations for both sellers and buyers for years, I still personally see examples of it. That being said I have caught a few sellers out before and got a cheaper price because I stick my rule of when I hit my max price, that's it... No more bids.... Leaving the sellers with either their 2nd account, or their friends account as the winning bidder for their own item.... Usually then resulting in the shill bidders bid been cancelled and my lowest bid before been gazumped as the winning bid. Meaning I then got an item cheap. However, I have also read it's worked against genuine sellers where a shill bidder who was bidding someone else up for the fun of it then withdraws out of the sale at end of auction and the seller ends up having to relist the item at cost because the other genuine buyers have already bought an alternative item elsewhere.
I have sold about 80 locos in the last two months. I always state that I would except returns and and start my sales at 99p. I take good close up photos and describe any issues I see. I am still at 100% after 24 years on ebay. I test each loco on the day I place them on sale.
I've got some absolutely stellar models for less than £10 that just needed a new motor or a gearchange. It's worth noting that if you can put the work in to fix broken things, they can be fantastically cheap. That said, you will sometimes acquire an absolute lemon and have to take the loss, same rules as to condition of locomotive in the listings/on shelves apply.
Personally I've gotten several rare second hand models. In fact I mentioned that 2-8-0 rivarossi on one of your recent streams I recently acquired some tyco power torque locos. In good condition (minus a little soldering requirements) Be aware getting into the second hand market you will need basic repair skills most of the time. A good tip is to try your local trading post
Be careful with the description on auction websites. I have seen many models of all gauges and makes described as excellent condition when they have broken handrails, missing buffers, steps, and even coupling rods. Like Sam said read the description but also study the pictures very carefully. Damage like this indicates a hard, well played with, life for the model and they will often have internal faults that aren't in the pictures.
The second hand market is like a double edged sword, on the one hand you could get a great train, but on the other hand, you could get very ripped off.
I agree, i've personally never gotten ripped off, but I dont have any new locomotives except my bachmann jinty and dapol mogul GWR because alot of them are out of my price range, thats why i only really have 1950s-2000 locomotives, as those are better for me and more simple anyway.
You can get ripped off buying new, Sam has had a bad run of new loco's that were not acceptable.
@@Barbarapape very true
thats why i typically buy locos i know are good, like the old hornby-triangs and traings
@@Cosmos-mz5ut The original Hornby, Triang, Trix and Wren locos are far more robust
and reliable than todays overpriced ones.
Most of my collection are from the 60/70's and still run well without all this DCC expense.
I have had mixed experience with buying second hand over the years. When I started collecting model railways, I was in my late teens and at college and did not have much cash. So, second hand was pretty much my only option. This was 30 years ago now and was fine and some good stuff. Note that this was mainly via my local model shop or at exhibitions. I have recently purchased some second-hand locos online but ended up having to send these back as they were not as described, damaged, or did not run. The world of Ebay is not all it is cracked up to be. I was lucky in that the sellers agreed for me to return the items, and I was fully refunded, including the postage. My big bug bare is that alot of second hand item are priced at not much less than the full retail price when brand new. To me, a second-hand item should be substantially less price than new, irrespective of whether it has never been used or otherwise. As the cost of new models has rocketed it feels like people selling secondhand items are ripping everyone off. The other issue is that people buy up loads of preorder items with no intention of using or wanting them and then put these on Ebay the day after they receive them at a higher price. I have given up on the secondhand market for now but will still look at items when I am at exhibitions or in my local model shop.
I almost exclusively buy second hand. You can get some great models for half the price of a comparable new one, sometimes even less. This goes especially for cars and coaches.
It also helps that I have a great shop nearby.
A decent number of my model trains are second hand, being acquired from places like eBay or the different marketplace sites, or even train shows and antique malls
If you are buying a secondhand model from an auction site steer clear of sellers that offer "No Refunds" This could mean that there is something wrong with the model that the seller is not telling you. Martin. (Thailand)
Good advice Sam. I never buy new any more and have an upper limit on cost. I have fallen foul of ebay once but with superglue solder and stuff from my trusty spares box fixed the problem. I did pay a good price though!
Sam all good advice remember re that a shop is subject to sale of goods act re merchantable quality but a private seller is not. So worth checking status of who you are dealing with. Also EBay do provide quite resilient protection for buyers but less for sellers in my experience.
I am waiting for a Marklin 28506 ReinGold Train-set rated at C-7 excellent condition. The pictures are clear and thr set looks beautiful. thw seller included ; NOT TESTED in the discription and he accepted an offer of three hundred bucks. His rating is a hundred percent as a seller but it seems odd that it wasn't tested. I will cross my finger and hope all is well.
One of the big reasons new products are made in set qtys is because everything is made in China and ordered in discreet batches
I don't like going second hand because it should be an option. These are just really expensive toys after all, because trains rarely come in kit form, and no elbow grease has to go into them (bite me),, so IMO, I see it as being told that my first car cannot be a a classic car, or modern sports car, but rather a junker. Once you connect the dots, you cannot unsee it. These are toys, shouldn't have to go used (second hand) because manufactures are greedy.
Thanks Sam a really helpful video, good advice always welcome J
Can't find a second-hand bargain these day's, you can't blame people, they have paid so much for the loco brand new they want to get their money back when selling it.
Most of mine are 2nd hand. Strangely its the brand new ones that have most of the issues!
I have found the secret to getting a bargain on eBay is to be patient - be prepared to monitor the market and lose any number of auctions.
Best buys I've found are mint condition non-runners. A bit of oil, soldering or a new motor gets them going.
Yes, I have benefitted from this approach too.
Hey! Stop bidding against me. 😁Yes, for sure if you have the skills to fix them up it's a great way to go.
@ausfoodgarden Yes, ours is a relatively small world, so I'm sure we have bid on the same items at times!
Marklin locos made over 30 years ago that haven't been run will seize up since the oil that was used has gummed up. The Germans call the oil "Getriebekleister (transmission glue). If you know that, it's a simple matter to take out the motor armature and use WD40 to unstick the gears. The loco will run like a champ after that. I've bought several 1980s vintage non-runners and brought them back to life. Apart from the satisfaction of fixing something, it's also a great money saver.
@drecksaukerl Do you mean WD40 Contact cleaner?
I don't see anything bad about second hand models as long, as you don't let your heart rule your head.
I’ve bought loads of second hand models off eBay. My first loco that I purchased was a used Proto 2000 BL2 locomotive for about $25 but it was disclosed that it ran rough and It likely was suffering from split axle gears. After a quick search for the gears and how to replace them, it ran sweetly and to this day years later it still glides along smooth as silk. I often go for used models cause I do enjoy tinkering with them and bringing them back to life.
I think that buying models in person (like model shows or physical retailers) tends to yield the best results for second-hand models. I much prefer buying older models at shows like Model Rail Scotland (you can probably work out my local area from that) which are really sent out there to be bought, and will be discounted often if not picked up. You can always bring a 9v to the place and check models are in good running order, and also just inspect them generally.
Simple good advice
@@davidsheriff8989why thank you
shops and shows getting fewer, (in south wales at least), I tend to limit myself to hornby mechs (ringfield) or lima as I carry large stock of spares and standardise on mechs
I did get some good stuff at Model Rail Scotland a few months ago
Sam, the first 2 minutes of this video is some of the most clear, concise and well-articulated presenting I've ever seen. It's quite an unintuitve concept and you explained it fantastically.
One tip i can give is you are buying used models online ensure that
there a clear photo's of all sides of the model.
Some sellers only show one side, this could mean that you end up
with a damaged or incomplete model.
Also check the sellers feedback, a string of negatives warns you to
stay clear.
By the way, usually the rip-offs or complete scams only show the original Seller's image, from the maker's website.
@@Benji_transport_vids A good point, having been conned a few times even by a well know retailer
that has just closed, i now never buy anything that i can't see a full set of original photo's of.
Or even worse, they show photos of the box, but not what's in the box! Not touching those ones.
I have actually picked up a couple of nice ones where the photos weren't great. Good price on auction because others avoided, turned out the seller wasn't trying to hide anything they just weren't very good at taking photos. Is a gamble though, could go either way.
I buy a lot of secondhand locos and what you have said is really good advice. I think virtually all you have said is what I do. Generally all the locos have been good buys but occasionally I get a duff one. The next thing that I always think is, " did the person know there was a fault or they genuinely didn't know". Fortunately I can fix most locos and I always work on the assumption when I buy on EBay, of "how much can I lose". The thing that also gets me is the amount of "non runners" I have bought where it is a simple repair or someone has fitted DCC, possibly died, and their relations sold it to a Dealer who because they only know about DC list it as a non runner. Some locos that I buy work but not properly and often I get the opinion that the fault was there from new. The person that is selling it, forgets why they don't run it anymore and just lists it as perfect. I bought a second hand 8F that kept derailing, I eventually found that one set of wheels weren't moving freely. I had to file the slot where the bearings fit ever so slightly and then it was perfect. Something like that has got to have been there since new.
Great addition to the channel. We all appreciate honest conversation videos.
I find some model clubs, sometimes sell off old items. These are often well looked after and serviced properly and most won't rip you off. I recently bought a LMS black five made by Airfix for £35 and they were more than happy for me to see it run before I bought it. Not only did it come with the original box, but It doesn't have any Glue marks or anything.
100% good advice here
also keep in mind there are a couple of sorts of online thing, like trying to get something reasonably recent for a reasonable price, of what I've spent the past few weeks on, buying very cheap stuff and taking the risk - accepting its older stuff.
I have however gotten six locos for less than the price of a single "new" one.. all old, but good enough to get started with
does help being willing to open stuff up
and Sam's point on read the description is spot on, also the pictures - are there bits not being shown? but good way to sport nasties when "the pictures for part of the description" - e.g. missing couplings, really horrible repaints or damage like scratches and missing parts.
further if bidding stuff, bid what its worth to you and then walk away, don't get drawn in to "must win", and also look up what getting the thing would cost from somewhere like a model shop, there are plenty of jokers selling stuff second hand for new or nearly new prices, and above in some cases.
Keep in mind some manufacturers such as Hornby have thrown away old tolling due to the storage costs.
One thing you totally glossed over is the uprise of AI generated item descriptions on eBay, I’ve seen things like “Graham Farish OO Merchant Navy… …Is a “ready-to-go” and “pre-built” model” when the model has clearly succumbed to zinc pest, or “Graham Farish OO GWR King… …Has a 4-6-2 wheel configuration”, or “The gauge is OO and the scale is 1:148”
Very useful video Sam. I have bought (and sold) many trains (mostly locomotives) through eBay, and a few other dealers. I find that it is very important to know about the item you are considering buying. This includes the reputation of the brand (some are better than others), any reviews of the models (such as watching your videos), and, as you pointed out, read the descriptions carefully.
Also, when bidding on a model, bid with your head, not over it. There have been a few times when I so wanted a model that I bid way more than I should have. After receiving it I had buyer's remorse for spending so much money on it. Now, I set a limit as to how much I am willing to pay. If I win, great, if I lose, well, there will probably be another one available in the future which I might win.
Hi Sam! I have a question that might be interesting for others wanting to buy second-hand.
I've been considering getting some 1990s Hornby tender driven locomotives, such as A3s and A4s, but I saw people saying that these models from the 90s will have problems running on tracks smaller than code 100.
I use kato unitrack, and this is a serious issue, considering that the locomotives might derail on points and something like that. I also saw some tests with Hornby locomotives (the caledonian 0-4-0t) in which they did well on these tracks. However, I think it's important to know, since I want to be certain about it. So I'd like to know if these 1990s tender driven locos can be problematic when running on code 83, and if so, if there's a way to modify then to run in these kinds of tracks.
Thank you for your content! It's been really helpful since I started on model railways
Being located in the US I have found that ordering locos online can be fraught with issues. This is especially true since several manufacturers have had problems with producing drive gears that crack over time. Hornby and Bachmann are well known for this. I have found that if a description says it is a non-runner or unreliable, etc. then it is best to pass on it unless you have an extensive parts collection. In my most recent case I ordered a Hornby West Country Class loco from a well known company that is no longer in business and in spite of being described a good runner it arrived with a split gear. The model was old enough that Hornby had “lost” the mold and so is no longer able to produce replacements. I finally figured out a way to create a 3D printed gear and fixed it myself. Since then I only buy pre-owned locos from Rails of Sheffield as I know they do test and guarantee their models to be as good as new, but that is only for those sold on their website, their eBay store is a different matter. I think Ellis Clark also is a good source.
I’ve asked before and I realize you’re busy and have video ideas planned a ways in advance, but I’d like to reiterate that I’d love to see a video on the most essential locomotives and rolling stock someone should get if they just starting a British model collection.
For me, I don’t care so much about era and company, I’m just curious to know what you consider is essential to have as part of a collection.
Thanks!
I just wait and stock up money for a model train show and buy stuff there. The people there show their models for sale in use, and on track you even bring it, granted only if it’s in the same scale
Thank you so much for this video Sam! I got stung by the slightly seedier side of the second hand market last year, as I found and bought a Hornby J36 "Maude" on eBay. The seller claimed it was "mint condition" and "never run", and the photos seemed to support that. Then the model arrived and... well. The problems were:
- The seller had snapped off and lost the smokebox dart and side oil valve.
- Removed the detail pack. They only sent through the detail pack after I chased them up about it, only to find that the snowplough had been smashed to bits and that half of the brake rigging was absent.
- The tarpaulin roll on the cab was hanging off
- Tender was missing several screws (all of which were thankfully in the box but looked like they had just been thrown in).
- Turns out the model hadn't been serviced in years, so I had to take it apart again to clean (and in one case replace) the pickups, lubricate the wheels, re-solder the motor wires and re-gauge the wheels before it started running adequately.
- Motor core needed replacing, something followed by A LOT of mechanism cleaning.
After all that, I'm happy to report the J36 is back in service, thanks to replacement parts from more reputable sellers (thank you Monk Bar Models!), but I'm now very careful with second hand sellers, considering I wanted a miniature reproduction of the locomotive, not a miniature version of a locomotive restoration!
Given all those issues why didn't you simply return it?
@@hughoconnor9172 unfortunately the seller refused to do returns, so I was stuck with it.
same here, i'm very careful now what i pick, or what im willing to spend money on parts for buying secondhand. The big name products are much easier to get parts for....It's the chance we take buying used if you cant physically inspect it or know what to look for in damage from photos.
So fair I've had decent experiences buying second-hand, including a "non runner" that actually ran perfectly but one thing that annoys me is the people selling new models from the likes of Accurascale and Cavalex for 3 to 4 times the original RRP
E-Bay prices have gone up quite a bit in the last year or so. I have given up on bidding their due to the fact most decent stuff is getting swipe bids at the last few seconds of the auction, which I done by a third party website. Toy fairs are the best places to get models now. Watching an item on E-bay sometimes pays off. The seller will make you an offer! Rails of Sheffield are still trying to sell an old Hornby coach (worth £10) for £29.50 plus post - on E-Bay! That's a rip off! You would think better of the "biggest seller of model railways in the UK" - their words!
You have to be careful I got done my a certain retailer who has a stall on the northwest and is on line said to have been fully serviced in full working order ,good job I had spares as postage to return was alot ,I best not tell you who he is but he’s no angel
9:24 Hold on a minute Sam, It's that the same engine you blew up for a April fools video, or was that a different model.
Cheers Jasper & Willow
Ah I remember that lol
I’ve found going to toy fairs is the place for bargains. This is especially true for coaches and wagons. I avoid eBay for the most part but the occasional bargain comes up.
In the US secondhand sales are "buyer beware." As soon as you exchange money with someone for an object, it's yours and the seller has zero responsibility. Lots of people here get screwed for that. It sometimes turns into a cycle where people end up selling the product they got scammed with to someone else because the financial hit is too much to bear.
It seems that the new practice is to list a hundred variations of the same model, all available as pre-orders. That means you either commit early, or miss the chance to pick up what you want. This is particularly irksome to us foreign (US) buyers, as there are no over-the-counter sales of UK locos or rolling stock here. (There are outlets carrying scenic and electrical items, but, again, only by on-line/mail unless you are fortunate enough to live close to a retailer, and that means within a hundred miles or so.)
I've bought a couple of job lots on eBay in the past, they usual contain several older train sets and are a great way to instantly bulk out your collection cheaply when starting out!
Didn't know you were a Railway Modeller Guru Larry! Maybe some model railway videos in the future 😉
I buy cheap old locomotives that don't work on eBay and fix them most of the time they just need a clean
Just today, I got in a train from an ebay auction, except instead of a 300 dollar brass locomotive I got two 20 dollar cars and haven't heard from the seller yet.
Great video, I live in Mexico and model railroad is very different from UK or USA, I will use the idea an adapt to make a video for latino market. Also I would love to make a program with you. Regards from Mexico. Eduardo
Thanks so much for the advice Sam - i love buying second hand, especially from model ships, but facebook marketplace, that's a big no-no - I lost 40 quid there as it was a scam :( I also love the process of fixing locos, as i find it very rewarding! As always, great video sam!
Model ships
I've only bought a few bits via FB Marketplace - and from a local chap where I could go and have a look at the items before I actually handed over any cash. That worked well IMHO, but I'd be leery of buying something from further afield. At least with eBay - as much as they are a pain in the proverbial if you're a seller - as a buyer you do get some good protection.
I’m sorry it’s just better to buy things from the source because you won’t get scammed and much safer option than going to these unreliable sources unless you go to a local train convention selling those products then buy but if it’s not that do not buy those products
On the returns I have a Heljan Lion which I bought from the UK and when I received it wouldn't run because one drive shaft had come out from one side of the motor with both bogies being driven. The shop I bought it from told me of a bodge job to fix it, but I sent the loco back to Heljan in Denmark from Australia. Heljan fixed it and also refunded the postage costs and told me I was wise not to try the bodge job that the model railway shop in the UK had recommended as it would have instantly voided the warranty on the loco. Heljan would have still fixed it but they would have charged me to do it and probably not refunded the postage costs. I also bought a new Bachmann Class 24 and one plastic bogie frame was not fitting properly and Bachmann sent me free of charge a replacement. They have their own repair department where people send their locos and one chap sent a standard 4 tank with a note attached "nobody has touched this loco". Yet the repair people could see the teeth marks on the loco where the family dog had been chewing on it. Then these people will go online and say that Bachmann doesn't care about customer service because they had to pay. But that's the trouble we only get to hear one side of the argument not both sides.
Bit I did get to see both sides of an argument when a local model shop here sold a new loco to a bloke who took it home and dropped it breaking the loco. He tried to get a refund and the model shop said no. He then went on Google reviews saying that the model shop knowingly sells defective locos. But the model shop owner replied to the the review saying TELL THE TRUTH!. You bought the loco brand new took it home and dropped it onto a hard service breaking it and then you returned to our shop demanded a refund even though you admitted that you broke the loco.
With how expensive things are for modelling now, I've only brought stuff second hand mostly from eBay as well, some things I've gotten and have been great, one or 2 though I've gotten to find either the issue wasn't mentioned in the listing or I've not checked the photos/description properly. I will say that N gauge stuff is stupidly priced most the time, second hand items such as wagons being sold for £30+, seriously?
Omg I start thinking I have more second hand stuff that is amazing then I thought!
A dcc NS BR363 Raillon for only €99
An obvious solution to high prices is to buy less. That may sound glib, but how many trains do people need? Noting that nobody 'needs' a model in the true sense, it’s a discretionary purchase. The models I buy are very expensive (Japanese brass) but I don’t buy much. I keep seeing complaints about prices from people with pre-orders which are insane, indicating that whatever they say prices aren't the barrier they claim. For thrifty buyers s/h is an excellent option.
Now I think about it, I got a dcc sound loco with dcc couplers for only €230 and 4 coaches with lights for only €80!
Another unmentioned avenue are model rail clubs. Many times, members either a) sell their own stuff at a bargain b) come into an estate sale if a member dies (I know our club had two recently) or c) may know someone or somewhere to get models at a bargain.
Maybe 80% of my 00 fleet has been bought 2nd hand? It's got me items much cheaper than brand new, and older items have given me the experience to fix things myself, so I'm not bothered if a loco doesn't work 100%.
Last weekend at Model World Live, I picked up an Oxford Dean Goods from Oxford's own bargain bin for £45, because it had a supposed motor fault and was running slowly. Popped the body off, reseated the motor, and its working perfectly now. No real fixes needed.
I only order my 3 Rail o scale from eBay occasionally….that is due to the fact that I order all my models from a well known second hand shop in Georgia. They ship them to my home city in Florida rather quickly. Yesterday at 5PM I ordered the Hornby Diecast Boiler 92220 DCC/Sound fitted from them pre-owned and they shipped it this morning at 8am.
Not bought a single new train, all second hand ✋ not all great but 90% of mine worked or could be fixed. The market is very different now to 2 years ago, people getting greedy perhaps but the fact is I wouldn't pay more than £30-40 back then, lucky to get something for less than £50 now. Lucky I stocked up 😂
I've got a battle going on with Heljan
My son bought me one of their new class 47s at NEC key model World, and Heljan charged him in Danish Króna which I'm sure is illegal, if its sold in the UK then it should be purchased in GBP £.
The model is awful and totally wrong and unacceptable also no couplings or snow ploughs as shown , terrible rendition of the 47, contacted Heljan in Denmark and they asked for it to be sent back to them- thats cost me £20.60.
They now have the model but say they havnt, yet I have proof it was signed and delivered their end, they're now refusing to refund so a court case could ensue but being out of the UK its gonna be hard to enforce.
I suggest you review their new 47 - see fir yourself its a nightmare, wrong roof detail overly narrow front end, massive windscreen wipers over size headcode box etc etc
You have never seen such a bigger pipe of poo if you tried - I lay down the challenge, watch out Heljan!
With more modern rolling stock the risk is certainly higher as they are more sophisticated, so more to go wrong. However older models are relatively simple and if you have a basic knowledge of electrics they are very easy to maintain and repair.
Want a 1980 Mainline Peak (Class 45 039 The Manchester Regiment)? Not sure if a runner, but it feels and looks good. And probably a good comparision piece with modern models. (BTW, The Manchester Regiment - real loco here - was royally screwed by British Rail, because the engine received a Heavy General Overhaul in late 1978 but it was withdrawn in 1980. I'd have been fuming at the waste of a Heavy General if I'd have been one of British Rails' accountants!)
I once nought a Heljan class 26 Brand New, non runner sold as seen, from Hattons.
When it arrived, I put it on the track; nothing.
Took the body off and thought "It can't be that?"
It was. The DCC blanking plate was missing.
I put in a spare one I had and 'Hey Presto' everything worked perfectly!!!
I paid £34 for it. At tge time tge new ones were going for about £130.
It's amazing what you can get 2nd hand/cheap???
honestly speaking about 80% of my collection is 2nd hand mostly because i simply can’t afford alot of brand new items where a new covered hopper would cost 65$ (51£) i could go to my local train shop and find a used one for 20$ (16£) now yes there are alot of things to be cautious about and if your just starting off i think a local train shop or train show is the best place to start because you have so many knowledgeable people willing to help you get started
That's the US pricing. It is a ripoff. In the UK the hobby is much better
@@jakeaviator1515 idk considering the pound to usd conversion a small van is almost as much as some of our stuff
For the modern producer of model trains the second hand market and ebay seems a big problem. I heard in an interview the CEO of Märklin, complaining about it. So what?
I always look on Sam's Trains as I'm new to the hobby so Sam's reviews helps. My favourite is a 2004 Hornby Mallard a great runner I have had problems and Sam's tips will help
There loads of rip off merchants on eBay and they also tel you its free postage when its actuality in the price. who are they kidding.
i have "used" Ebay for a number of years...and made my experiences....mostly positive...just stick to your price limit and don't start any silly "bidding wars" with some folk which don't know how to use ebay...cheers
ps---at the mo i'm not buying anymore....the cupboard is full.....haha...
Most of my early stuff was second hand.tbh. I still buy things second hand now but I do like to see them first. Oddly enough my first loco and coaches was a 16440 jinty and two LMS clerestory coaches in the Country Local train set, all of which I still have. And that was new in 1986. Thd only new loco I got between then and around 2006 was a Pacer for my 13th or 14th birthday. Can't remember which. But then I was picking up wagons for maybe £2 or £3 each, coaches for £4 or £5 from a local shop in Brighton and locos for about £20 like my Mainline class 45 and a Jubilee, also mainline but I sold that on and regretted it instantly as it ran well. I'd say I've got around half and half new and second hand models, although I'd say 3/4 of my coaches are second hand off Ebay.
One good source of bargains is New old stock items that were on a shelf in the back room of a shop and maybe got forgotten about. Like you say it doesn't really help the shop out too much as they need to make a profit but sometimes you can find a gem. There's nothing wrong with them though, they're still new just an older edition of something. I got a new Bachmann vlassc45 that way, 45120 with split headcodes when Modelzone sold them off for £50. Mine was the one in the display case but I could have had a Bachhy 37 too. Maybe I should have done hehe.
Sorry for being so late to see this Sam, but I spent the a good portion of the day working on the Hobbytown E-unit set I just got off of ebay for only £40! After getting the lead unit working, I weighed it and found out that its 890 grams!!! Now I haven't even put any weights in, so its just the diecast body, frame, motor, flywheel, and bogies, but even with all the empty space, it is unstoppable. I cant even stop the motor (out of the body) by gripping it with my fingers. The other two E-units aren't as heavy, but for 40 quid, I can easily put hundreds of grams into them to make them powerhouses as well. How much did the Bachmann E7 weigh? Anyways, Thanks as always Sam!
WHAT'S wrong with the world!!!! Imagine Apple producing iPhones in limited numbers you had to pre-order to get them. And only produce the most popular models and colors in even more limited numbers. Surely we would pay two or four times the current (rediculous) price. Secondhand market would boom in place of being the nice it is now.
Isn't the English business model just set-up due to the small size of the market. This rip-off way of business is (maybe) the only way they can make an existance in OO. Might I suggest a new Hornby range in H0 !!
I once bought an amtrak coach off ebay. It said it was HO scale, but when i got it, it was N scale! Eh, i liked it and kept it. I did see a listing for an HO loco that was actually an O scale. I notified the seller. They didnt know their model trains. Even admitted so. They did correct the listing. I happen to have that same model, plus the underside was an instant tell.
Useful 2nd hand buyer tips Sam. However you correctly advised buyers not to attempt repairs to items described and sold as in good or running condition purchased online or via eBay, etc. as it of course deprives the buyer of their legal right to return/refund. However in your Hornby black 5 review you have not practised what you preach as you stripped down the new but faulty locomotive, also identifying the running issues before you then returned it to the retailer for a full refund?
I have bought nearly all my rolling stock second hand and that is more than 50 items. Every one of them is a perfect runner, even though a bit of tweaking the back to backs is sometimes needed. All of them negotiate all my points which are old Hornby, new Peco, old Peco -about 25 of them - without any problems on a small but complex layout. Not quite the same for the locos though. The last one from ebay, a B B Class Hornby pacific from the early 2000s but clearly barely used would not reverse. The wheel bearings had all been dislodged. But not too difficult a job to repair.
I miss Hattons I used to get amazing second hand deals there. And they were honest and upfront about any issues.
mr Sam, i have bought everything i own second hand.
And i have no problem trying to fix stuff that is broken.
Sometimes i can not fix it, but most of the time i can.
But this is obviously only the case with easy stuff. DC stuff.
I am not a wizz kid and so i have not much experience with the newer stuff.
DC is easy enough. Everybody can fix that.
but now i have this question:
Does it hurt to put a DCC locomotive on a DC layout?
Will it work, or not, and why or why not, etc.
Thanks for any response in advance.
Bought really terrible stuff once, decided never more. The guy was in financial trouble, so... Never more.
There could be some wonderful pieces out there.
I've got a Hornby flying scotsman in br green. I had it for xmas in 1974. I sold all my stuff in early 1976 except this loco & an 060 loco. The scotsman hasn't been used since end of 1975. Its in its box in a draw now. I still hope to get going again one day.
Typically I go for the non-runners or locos in the £10-30 range. These normally can be assumed to be bad runners or show wear but with this assumption and the low price you can't go wrong!
If it turns out to be bad you can just enjoy fixing it. Wouldn't risk spending more than £50 for second hand though!
I've always found that the manufacturers producing limited batches is bad for the modeller, take for example Bachmann Mk2/2a coaches. Many years ago they produced a batch of BSO/BFK/FK/TSO coaches in Network Southeast and Blue/Grey liveries, they seemed to produced the same number of each design. Obviously the TSO's went first, because of course a real train has more standard coaches than brakes or first class, that's why many years later there are still brakes and first class coaches on websites and no standard class coaches. It is almost as though the manufacturers are not aware of how the real trains are formed.
Well done, Sam. Just note that in the US, it's caveat emptor unless the seller specifically states that returns are ok. Even so, I would guesstimate that about 75% of my Marklin collection purchased over the last 20 years has been 2nd hand, much of it from Ebay. I've rarely gotten burned, and I've saved a boatload of money plus I've been able to get desirable pieces that are not easy to get.
Apart from checking seller feedback, it's also important to stay disciplined and avoid "auction fever" when bidding. Decide on a maximum price you're willing to bid on and stick to it. If you lose, so be it. Chances are, an identical or similar item will come up again in the future. It's also a good idea to stick to analog technology. That way, you can buy and run old stuff without modification. Over the years, I've noticed that some people will dump pieces with older electronics for a song, yet they will still run fine on an analog layout. Therein is a great opportunity for those who want to stretch their dollars (or Pounds).
Finally, see if you can get old catalogs for the manufacturer you're interested in. Some years ago, I was able to get an electronic archive of old Marklin catalogs going back to 1930. That has enabled me to research how long a given item was available and therefore gauge its rarity and guesstimate its value when deciding what to bid.
I very rarely buy new loco's........they are just too damn expensive, I always buy secondhand, sometimes you get stung, but the savings generally outweigh the losses.
Most of my collection is second hand. My best batgain was a brand new bachmann class 24 in rtc livery for half the price (£89) bachmann wanted for it, (£179).
Several traps on eBay.
Do not send the product back until the vendor has sent the funds or return postage bar code. Cost me $60 from Australia and the vendor sold the model again for over £100. EBay said it was my fault and did not refund the postage.
There are some wonderful vendors on eBay, but my experience with three has turned me off the site except as a last resort.
One sent a return paid voucher for a courier service with its nearest depot in the next town (having sent the model by post). EBay thought this to be completely reasonable - even during Covid when travel was illegal. It refused to provide a refund. The vendor sent a torrent of abusive messages and eBay thought that did not need addressing.
As I had paid with PayPal, I got my refund from their refund policy.
The vendor continued his abuse - alleging I was trying to scam him, so I had to resort to the (Australian - Queensland) “Unordered Goods and Services Act” which treats objects differing from that which was ordered in a way which puts the onus on the vendor to collect the goods, failure to do so transfers ownership of the goods for free.
Sam’s point about testing immediately is very important with eBay. Some vendors immediately go to the time limit on the complaints process (one misstated the period by shortening it by months), and I was actually days late because of a holiday. As the motor emitted smoke as soon as power was applied, I suspect the vendor knew full well the loco was not in good order.
It is a shame for the numerous other wonderful vendors I have bought from on eBay who have been exemplary in dealing with issues, but I now buy only new from retailers as I do not need the stress.
Good morning mukka.
Can you please do me a favour and advise me what your email address is so I can submit some trains pictures for consideration for your wall of fame.
Cheers.
Regards from Oz
Gaz
When I first saw the "Cover Shot" of this Video I thought Wow Sam is Rocking a Mullet! 😂 It's a just an optical illusion from the shadow behind your head. Anyway Great Video. Lots of good advice.Thanks Sam. Cheers, Steve
I just shop online for wagons or dummy coaches/power cars, if I'm buying second hand locomotives I go to a model shop where I see it get tested or if it's damaged.
There will be different levels of hobbiest. I for one will never pay the horrific prices asked by Hornsby for new models. I suspect Hornsby will go bankrupt soon. Expensive unaffordable poor quality
It’s always risk … Risk = Probability x Consequence
You can reduce the Probability of buying and being left with a dog by ensuring you can return the model and / or buying from a reputable source.
Consequence. All about getting the model at the right price …
So head has gotta rule heart here ….
I've never bought a new locomotive. They are just too expensive for me so I've only gotten them used. I've been pretty lucky, only 1 locomotive I bought used doesn't work, it was listed as unknown if it would work and was cheap enough I decided to try. If I knew more about repairs I could probably fix it, I think the motor is bound and needs cleaning or replacement.
This isn't boasting, but I haven't bought a brand new locomotive piece of rolling stock in about 25 years. It's not that I haven't wanted to, but just that the price sky rocketed way out of my price range, and the cost of postage from overseas just killed it for me. So I have concentrated on used equipment, often in poor condition, often just to give me experience in fixing things. I get a great deal of satisfaction in gathering bits and pieces together and ending up with a working locomotive.
This last year, I have been able to purchase some locomotives from the local Australian eBay market that have been in new and practically unused condition. These items were part of deceased estates that were being sold off, and the prices were so very attractive. The trouble is, I have to curtail my purchasing, as I am running out of space.
One question: do you ever spend a weekend just dusting off all of your engines and rolling stock, and have you ever evaluated your collection? Back in my teenage years, when I collected model aircraft, I used to spend days going over the models, just dusting them off.
I don't think I have ever bought anything new unless I had to or it was heavily discounted, maybe shoes & some clothes but never branded [I don't believe in paying for adverts or to look cool in the right name], chose carefully & or buy non runners for spares or fix, I worked in a car breakers yard for quite a while so got used to never buying new except filters & oil even the 'used'petrol was used in our cars I now work on Aircraft & if a part in not available in time then we borrow a part from another aircraft that's in long term maintenance The USAF has boneyard's yep the obsolete very old are scraped but all usable parts are removed first, newer stuff is preserved & often re-lifed & upgraded,
its just a sales con to buy the shareholders their next luxury holiday or the CEO his 2nd private jet, non stop conditioning us to always want the latest.
I did not used to be frightened of secondhand, but I am very weary now. Firstly some experiences on E-bay. For example an item that people could bid on, was stated as DCC sound fitted with smoke. (because there was a bit of paper with it saying that). There was definitely no DCC chip nor smoke, nor any sign it had ever been fitted as such. I sent it back and e-bay agreed.
Secondly, a lot of stuff has faults now but ask for a premium price. I really do not want to pay that price and then spend my time fixing someone else's problem. This is compounded by the fact that modern models are far more fragile than what went before and there are too many people out there that simply do not know how to handle them.
And as you have shown, many sellers confusing old Lima items with modern super detailed items, claiming it as such and demanding a premium price.
E-bay used to change for any non sales. They don't do that anymore, so there are also 1000s of items out there appearing all the time that never sell, but do draw in others to sell their own as such high prices too.
I've decided life is too short for this hassle, and stick with new from reputable sellers.
i never give tips in my videos ,, i'd disagree with a percentage of what you say sam ,, but i don't give my online buying tips out because that is for my competition to work out for themselves ,, i'll just say i've had more good and outstnding deals than bad or average
I just paid £32 for a Lima class 26 on ebay 😬 too much...
I also paid £16 for a slightly damaged modified hornby class 50 great price, until the postman rammed it in the letterbox and broke the body but being a modifier I've already repaired the body and rebuilt the chassis with new bufferbeams since they'd been cut off the chassis and glued into the body I hadn't oticed but its got different numbers on both sides. If your buying tnd hand I'd always try and get an aging model as there generally cheaper and easier to fix if they do turn out to be damaged in some way I want an accurascale 37 but I won't buy a 2nd hand one because of their price still being as high as brand new ones and parts aren't easy to get for them
Another thing to look out for is models for sale that have been upgraded by manufacturers such as Bachmann Class 20s, Hornby Brits etc. You might think you are getting the latest version, so always check the model number.
Good info Sam, yeh 2nd hand..hard to spot out defects or hairline cracks in driver wheels. Some models being decades old like rivarossi is hard to find parts for. on a particular casey jones 4-6-0, even their rivarestore site doesn't have the parts. Best to just buy new at a fair price on products that are well known, warranty's and with parts available. I also like to fix em, when its easy to get parts, i dont mind.. But there are deals to be had..its a cat/mouse game often times.
I got a Tomix Henry once for only €115. He is on ebay for €300+
Do scalpers buy-up limited pre-orders to sell at marked-up prices, like people do with Transformers figurines?
Have bought second hand locally in Australia and from UK and have been bitten yet, but I have been careful reading descriptions, checking photos etc before buying.
I’ve brought 2nd hand from Rails of Sheffield and TTCDiecast both reasonable priced and excellent condition. One even had a decoder still inside that I didn’t realise. Bonus.
Another great insight Sam, although, in the case of an auction. I would say you still need to research the going price of a product before bidding in order to protect yourself from Shill Bidding.
It is especially a problem on eBay as despite it causing numerous problems and frustrations for both sellers and buyers for years, I still personally see examples of it.
That being said I have caught a few sellers out before and got a cheaper price because I stick my rule of when I hit my max price, that's it... No more bids.... Leaving the sellers with either their 2nd account, or their friends account as the winning bidder for their own item....
Usually then resulting in the shill bidders bid been cancelled and my lowest bid before been gazumped as the winning bid. Meaning I then got an item cheap.
However, I have also read it's worked against genuine sellers where a shill bidder who was bidding someone else up for the fun of it then withdraws out of the sale at end of auction and the seller ends up having to relist the item at cost because the other genuine buyers have already bought an alternative item elsewhere.
I have sold about 80 locos in the last two months. I always state that I would except returns and and start my sales at 99p. I take good close up photos and describe any issues I see. I am still at 100% after 24 years on ebay. I test each loco on the day I place them on sale.
I've got some absolutely stellar models for less than £10 that just needed a new motor or a gearchange.
It's worth noting that if you can put the work in to fix broken things, they can be fantastically cheap.
That said, you will sometimes acquire an absolute lemon and have to take the loss, same rules as to condition of locomotive in the listings/on shelves apply.
Personally I've gotten several rare second hand models. In fact I mentioned that 2-8-0 rivarossi on one of your recent streams
I recently acquired some tyco power torque locos. In good condition (minus a little soldering requirements)
Be aware getting into the second hand market you will need basic repair skills most of the time.
A good tip is to try your local trading post
Top tip: Don't believe anything that hyperbolic ebay AI description bot says! Absolutely bonkers!!
Be careful with the description on auction websites. I have seen many models of all gauges and makes described as excellent condition when they have broken handrails, missing buffers, steps, and even coupling rods. Like Sam said read the description but also study the pictures very carefully. Damage like this indicates a hard, well played with, life for the model and they will often have internal faults that aren't in the pictures.