I own both a Fluance RT85 and a Rega RP3. Both have the Ortofon Blue Cartridge. I would give the sonic edge ever so slightly to the Rega. I would say it’s slightly smoother on the top end. Why?…. I have no clue. But given the same cartridge, there is clearly some element coming from the table. Could be speed stability, or influence of the tonearm, but there is something slightly better about the Rega. HOWEVER…. I give a big edge to the Fluance in ease of use. Setup is a breeze, basically ready to play out of the box. Speed control is a switch, not a pulley adjustment. I like the platter better on the Fluance as well as the adjustable feet. Another BIG plus for the Fluance is the removable headshell. Extras are available at a reasonable price, making cartridge changes a snap. I love my Rega, but If I had to buy only one, it would be the Fluance. Ease of use combined with very good sound quality means I use it more!
Would be very curious if you can do the assessment totally BLIND.... Harder to do on TT's... I did blind testing on three different DACs analog outputs fed into my integrated amp simultaneously, d and the difference for me and my test subject's ears are frankly, minor on my setup.
I will receive in a few days a new phono cable for my Fluance RT85: the cable is an Impact SX from Audio Sensibilité. My goal is to slightly attenuate the high frequencies. I will let you know about my experience later.
The speed control is the number one reason I went for a Pro-Ject X1 instead of a P3/RP3. Got too much records that have to play at 45. Didn't know about Fluance back then, but that brand isn't really available over here anyway.
Also depends on the capacitance and resistance loading to the phone pre amp, wiring in both tt would have different capacitance, reactance, this would influence treble response, if you compensated for these, by having a phono pre amp with different loading, I bet you won't tell the difference?
My first turntable in 1978 was a planar 2 with audiolab arm and denon 103 with a step up transformer. It was pure bliss. My kids wrecked it. 8 years ago I replaced it with a 1000 dollar music hall. It made me cry. That brightness. I now have a rega planar 8 apheta2 and a parasound jc 3 phono stage. Happy again Yes vinyl is special.
I have vintage equipment: a Marantz 2285B receiver and Cerwin Vega AT12 speakers, all in excellent condition. I’m not working with a large budget so I did my homework on replacing my Pioneer turntable. I chose the Fluance RT 85 because of the Ortofon Blue, the acrylic platter, the great reviews and the $500 price. My system turns out a beautiful soundstage now with vinyl. I am so pleased with this unit and would recommend it to anyone.
A lot of the tonal characteristics you describe are coming from the Ortofon Blue. The RT85 is also offered with a Nagaoka 110, which is a much smoother, natural sounding cartridge. I have one on my heavily modded Rega at the moment.
You're right re. 'smooth', but whether or not it sounds more 'natural' is a subjective matter. I ran the MP 110 for a long time and found it more 'muffled' than 'natural' myself.
I remember hearing the same tryin to decided on the MP-110 vs Ortaphon Blue for my AT VTA Carbon deck. From a test press record, the MP-110 was also amazing for inner groove distortion while the Blue was buzzing slightly. Do you know if Fluance sells the RT85 without a cartridge? I really would like to get an RT85, but don't like how they force you either/or on a cartridge. I find it interesting they charge the same price, when the MP-110 can be had for $90 less compared to the Ortaphon Blue. It should be $410 for the MP-110 equipped turntable. But really, let me buy the turntable without a cartridge.
A turntable does not have a frequency response, a cartridge does. The tonality of a cartridge is effected by the arm and headshell, but the turntable has less to do with this aspect. It makes more sense to talk about rumble and wow & flutter when describing turntables.
Fluance now offers the Nagaoka MP110 for the Fluance called RT-85N, and that cart takes that treble edge off so it's more balance and has a warmer sound profile, which would sound better for recordings done in the analog era.
Nice review. I decided to dip my toe back into vinyl. I have owned the Fluance for approx a year. Agree that for the money it’s as good as tables twice the price. I have a 4B cubed, Parasound pre amp, and series 3 golden ear so not a cheap system. Works extremely well again considering the price. Cheers.
My first table was the AR XT way back in 1964. I have had many tables since. I now have 2 Arbit specials, 2 AT 129 USB and a Fluance RT 85. I have the Ortofon Bkue, the Nagaoga MP 110 and my beloved Grados, Black, Green, Blue and red. I do enjoy your videos. At the end of the day I try to listen to the music and not the equipment,
I'm probably the weird audiophile out of all of you. I run two fully restored vintage Duals, a 701 and a 1219. Variety, being the spice of life though, I'm intrigued the different options. I now have the -itis, the upgrade-itis and am look at a Technics SL-1500c, Thorens TD124 and a Dual (2024) CS-618q. But Fluance has me fascinated, and I'm very happy @Thomas made this video. Great input Thomas, Thank you.
I have the RT85 in bamboo. I’ve upgraded to the Ortofon 2m Bronze, going into a Schiit Mani. I love it. It has good synergy with the rest of my system. I honestly don’t feel the need to upgrade further.
You found the Bronze to be a significant enough upgrade? I also have a bamboo RT85. Sounds great (just installed a Mani 2 last night-wow!). It is a little too bright, however.
Hey Mark. I am actually in need of a stylus upgrade and have been thinking about a bronze or even a black. I also have an rt85. And was wondering if a black would be wasted on the 85. Your saying an upgrade to a bronze is a nice jump from the blue on the fluance table? Thanks in advance for your response. Joe
@@IREMEMBERNOW I haven't listened to the 2m Black, so I have no opinion on that. Maybe when the Bronze wears out I'll get one. The RT85 is a solid table. I can't imagine the Black would be wasted on it.
Also check out my lastest HEDD video th-cam.com/video/7Uw6MoQ3qTg/w-d-xo.html Non-affiliated link for the light reliablecorporation.ca/collections/lighting In the interest of transparency, Fluance did not want the turntable back after the review.
Love Thomas' reviews and I was literally just considering the Rega P3 50th anniversary turntable and I have the Fluance RT 85 already with the Ortofon blue so glad I ran across this comparison.
I'm still using my Systemdek Limited Edition purchased in 1985. it has a Sumiko MMT tone arm, I believe made by Jelco. Currently using a Goldring 1006 cartridge runninh thru a Ifi ipono3 black preamp. Sometimes I think about getting a new turntable, but this just keeps working really well.
I have had the RT-85 for 2 years with the Ortofon 2M Blue it is very dynamic. The acrylic platter is a real looker. Biggest issues are there is no VTA adjustment for cartridge upgrades and the tone arm and the cueing lever feel like cheap plastic, so every time I use it I feel like I have a cheap setup.
For the price is it a deal breaker? One of the reasons I went Rega was because there was some* room for things like power and MC cart upgrades. I think the RT 85 is a bit more limited but hard to beat for the price.
@@gianlucazanon1505 P3* and a Hana SL (used to run a Goldring E3 and P2 which also sounded great but the P2 didn't have much upgrade path). RT 85 is a good, if limited, TT. Depending on what you want to spend on the whole system, it might be totally adequate. When one upgrades one thing then the temptation is to keep it up because "that item has more potential than my other things". It never ends. A P2/E3 cart would be uploade over an RT 85, but look at what you want to accomplish/how much you want to spend first.
Fluance RT-85 is my go to for listening to vinyl about 20% of the time vs CD and streaming. I definitely listen to more digital vs vinyl, but the RT-85 definitely holds its own under a $1000.
I have a Technics SL-1210GR turntable and a Nagoaka MP-200 cartridge fed into a new Marantz Model 30 integrated amplifier with the fantastic 'Marantz Musical' built-in preamp, and the original Elac Uni-fi floor-standers...Absolute glory!
I have the RT 85 and replaced the Ortofon Blue with a Nagaoka MP150. I am completely satisfied with this combination. The Nagaoka is a great match with this turntable.
❤ thanks for the great video! I have an RT81 fitted with an Audio Technica xp5 and redhead shell that I purchased separately and it sounds magnificent even better than my 2m red! Plenty of detail and very smooth at both extremes.
Especially in terms of timbral realism, articulation/imaging and dynamic expression of a turntable, the cartridge quality is very important indeed. It terms of importance in the overall turntable package a great cartridge can make the difference between a fine performance and a truly addictive one.
Good video, good topic. Try a different cartridge! I own an RT84 which is basically the RT83 with an OM2 Blue. They have discontinued that combination. I think the cartridge is about 70% of the sound and the tracking and speed accuracy of the table make up the balance. I agree the OM2 Blue is really bright and not very detailed. I upgraded to an Audio Technica VM540ML/H Headshell/Cartridge Combo Kit with a Schiit Mani pre. It transformed my vinyl listening. Super smooth, very airy top end, detailed and smooth natural sounding mid-range with great bass detail, texture and depth. Everything sounds salubrious now. Seriously I used to own a Versa Dynamic table back in the early 90's (approx $8000.00 USD) and I am as happy with my Fluance as I think I was back in the day with the Versa Dynamics unit. I do know the Fluance is far more reliable and easier to live with. I listen to vinyl on average every other day. I couldn't be happier.
+1.... I did exactly the same with my RT85; the AT VM540ML is a great improvement over the Orto Blue. I'm not sure it's perfectly aligned because no VTL is possible except maybe via different matt thickness and the cueing mechanism is at the limits of adjustment but highly satisfied!
@@dennismanning6684hello I have an 85 and I was thinking about the vmml as an upgrade but I was worried about the VTA, did you make any other adjustments other than just the cartridge? If so could elaborate any thing would be greatly appreciated. I have been also looking at the E3 as it also has a 20°vta.
On your recommendation and review l got the BC Accustiwue 214, Magnapan LRS, IOTA NP3 ( indirectly through SA3), and by other You Tubers the Fluance RT85 with the iFi Zen phono amp. I also augmented the Manapans with the SVS SB1000 pro. So with all budget gear affordable l get better sound than ever before. Thanks Thomas. You are honest and sincere in your reviews!
Hi Thomas I have the RT85 for over a year now, replacing a Project Debut carbon that made me so angry with an after warranty issue with the cue lever not dropping the stylus to the record. Traded for an LP credit at a repair shop. I was glad to see you have a soft touch with your your carbon fibre brush on the video. I thought something was wrong a few days ago with the RT85 motor. Using a Fluance carbon fibre brush on a really clean Goodwill copy of Taco, After Eight, with a gentle touch (I thought) made the record slip on the acrylic platter. Looking like the motor was toast. Made me lookup the warranty. 2 years. One of the rpm apps told me the accuracy was dead on. Just a heads up. Acrylic platters sure ain’t felt, rubber, or cork! Mike
I have an Audio Technica AT-LP1240-USB Direct Drive DJ turntable - solid, heavy, and dependable. I didn't want to deal with belts. I digitize and edit my recordings with 3rd party software as I listen to a lot of music on the road on my Poweramp app for my LG Android phone, hence the USB line for desktop. I find this turntable leaning bright so I balance it with an Ortofon Red (I should try a Nagaoka). I really enjoy the process of digging (for vinyl records), collecting first presses and reissues, cleaning records, recording them, and editing digitized albums. Thanks for your video.
I have a VPI HW40 with a Koetsu Jade connected to an Hashimoto SUT-H7 connected to a Harron VTPH-2a (w/NOS Tubes) phono stage. It’s pretty magical setup.
So, a couple of months ago I answered your question on what turntable I have. JVC JL-A40. After having it since new, late 70s, a part broke so I decided to get a new unit. My choice was the Fluance RT85. When you consider all the pluses, it’s a no brainer. It’s the best bang for the buck.
I know I'm a little late to the party by about 300 comments but I own and love a Pioneer PL-530 direct drive turntable. I've used other ones but this one in particular fits the bill for style and ease of use. I think all turntables should have pitch controls by default and the mechanism that lowers the tonearm automatically is a godsend for people with shaky hands.
Did you get your Amp yet? How did it sound with it. I have the option to get the rega planar 2 open box for same price as rt85. Should I consider it? Also how that Fluance comes with the Nagaoka cartridge with a washer sound is that something you would consider given the 2m blue is a little more on the higher sounding end? I know sound is subjective but just wanted your opinion thanks! Also love your detail and calm presentation. 👌🏾
I completely agree, every turntable should come with a dust cover. Thomas, I don't have a turntable, sold my 1000 piece vinyl 20 years ago. And yes it still hurts and now sometimes I want to start again. Grtz Phil
Hello Thomas. I recently bought an Audio Technica AT-LP120XUSB ($350USD) and I’m enjoying it, after having many cheaper and more expensive turntables. Something about the direct drive is enjoyable to use for me. The included AT-VM95E cartridge has lots of stylus upgrade possibilities as well.
Thomas, I never gave up on records since 1973 when I bought my first record. I had Rega RP3. I now have a Michelle Orbe, SME 309, Dynavector XX2. In answer to your question, I say the cartridge is an intrinsic part of the whole. The arm and phono stage are just as important.
Hi Thomas. I used to own a Clear Audio Emotion turntable with an Eastern Electric tube phono stage and loved the sound. sadly I needed funds and sold all my turntable gear years ago. I no longer have room for a turntable hence why my vinyl is in the shed. My vinyl sessions were great days but I don't really miss them now, as I play CDs and stream. The joys of getting older as streaming is so convenient at a touch of a button 😁
I have owned too many turntables in my lifetime. I have sold most, and these are the ones I liked best. Linn LP12, Linn Axis, Thorens TD-124, Rega P2 or P3, Marantz T15, VPI Scoutmaster, and I really have tweaked my Audio Technica LP1240 to sing when I absolutely need a removable headshell table. I returned an early Fluance table some time ago with a letter on how it could be improved. I am sure the new ones are much better.
@tango_gru It depends on the shape, serial number, and upgrades. Ask what power supply it has. Ask about the bearing. Jelco arms have really gone up in price lately, even though they are removeable headshell. What is the serial number, and does it have a clear lid?
Thorens TD125 Mk II with a Shelter 501 Mk III cartridge on a Rega 303 tonearm with Incognito tonearm wiring. Using an E.A.R. 834P phonostage. I brought the Thorens and SME 3009 tonearm back to California from London during a trip through Europe in the summer of 1973. My brother inherited the same model turntable with an SME 3009 with detachable headshell from his father-in-law. My brother refurbished it and built a new base with an exotic hardwood. I delivered the turntable to my niece in Portland last week. She loves vinyl. Very cool that she's using her grandfather's turntable.
Nice review , I own a fairly big vinyl collection however I don't listen often so a few years ago I picked up a Rega P1 and for the money have no regrets , falls in line with the Fluance price .
I have an E.A.T. Forte S with the Macassar finish, a 12" E.A.T. F-Note polished-aluminum tonearm, and a Hana Umami Red phono cartridge. I use the Nordost Heimdall phono cable, but the F-Note tonearm does not have a place to attach the ground cable. When I touch the ground cable anyplace on the tonearm base, the noticeable hum goes away. Not only that, the DIN cable does not insert all the way into the tonearm input so it hangs down slightly after pushing it in as far as I could. This also happens with the included E.A.T. phono cable.
My concern with the RT 85 had mainly to do with its short 8 1/2 arm, sure a half inch under a standard 9" arm might not seem so much but the shorter the arm the greater the inner groove distortion is going to be. The RT 85 is a fantastic value considering you get a mid market cart and a acrylic platter on day one which are two upgrades everything else at the price point can not offer. If I had to choose a new turntable at this price point still would have to choose the ProJect Debut Carbon Evo for $100 more because of the much better arm and the supplied Sumiko Rainier cart is parallel with the 2M Blue if not just a bit more warmer and musical.
❤ this is a very nice video and thank you for sharing your love for vinyl I have the rt81 fitted with the Audio-Technica xp5 and it sounds superb even better than the 95e that it originally came with. I prefer it over my 1997 Rega P2 with upgraded glass platter and Pickering XSV-3000 phono pickup.
Thank you for this great video. I like the Fluance very much. Such a great value for the price. I am currently using my Pioneer PL 505 which I bought in 1985.
I had a Project Debut Carbon with Ortofon Blue and acrylic platter. I just upgraded to a Music Hall Stealth DD Table that came with the Blue cartridge. WORLDS OF DIFFERENCE! This Stealth is a sleeper product.
Thanks for the video.... and for the equipment suggestions. The Fluance turntable is beautiful... The platter is so cool. - I had a Dual turntable back in the day. It wasn't top top notch, but was somewhat high level. At the time, there were no other options... so I did the best I could with what I could get. The problem was bass feedback... Any time the volume was up... Well you know the deal. I don't want to go back to those problems. How do you deal with damping / feedback?
I have a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon that I have upgraded the sub platter, replacing the plastic one with an aluminum one, upgraded the platter with an acrylic one, upgraded the phono cables and am running a Grado Opus III high output moving iron cartridge. My previous cartridge was the Ortofon 2M Blue. The Grado is warmer than the Blue and the highs are smoother, although not always as detailed as the Blue, it is more enjoyable to listen to. Putting on a different cartridge could drastically change the characteristics of the RT85 as it did on my Pro-Ject. As always, I enjoy your videos. Keep up the good work.
I can’t help but wonder how much of the sound is the turntable and how much is the cartridge. Ortofon cartridges are well known to be bright sounding. If you put on a different cartridge (such as the Nagaoka line), would that add to the bass response of the Fluance? I would try that and see how it sounded.
I have a Rega P3. I auditioned it against a Project RPM model that was aprox $3000 After I'd listened to Ortofon Blue, Red and Black cartridges on each turntable - it was clear that the Rega was as good as the more expensive Project. In the 4 years since that decision, I've upgraded my P3, each upgrade has improved the sound.
I had the same experience, project sound it is very unengaging, i had a mid level project rpm6 for many year, then I bought a rega rp6, also a mid level turntable and the sound or the rega was way more musical, engaging and enjoyable, after that I sold the rpm6.
I recently purchased an RT85N which includes the Nagaoka MP-110 Cartridge. It would be interesting for you to do an updated video comparing the 85 and 85n and also again the 85n compared to your Rega. From what I understand the main difference between the 2 cartridges the Nagaoka MP-110 Cartridge sounds a bit fuller/warmer while the Ortofon 2M Blue sounded sharper or possibly even more towards hd or digital like. I personally like the warmer sound when listening to vinyl so that's the reason I went for the 85N.
Hi Thomas. Another good video. I have eight turntables I still believe they are the best source you can have for any HiFi system. Also, once I like them, I just can’t make myself to get rid of them. It’s a weird kind of relationship :-) Here is the list: Pioneer Pl-12D(1971), Technics SL-D3 direct drive(1978), JVC QL-F4 direct drive(1980s), Project Espirit(2009), Pioneer PLX-1000 direct drive(2016), MoFi Ultradeck(2021), Technics SL-1500C (2022) and finally a VPI Scout(2016).
Always love your videos Thomas! You are a natural on camera, very relaxing to view. I have an Audio technica LP120XUSB with an Ortofon Blue cartridge and an Ifi Zen pre-amp through Klipsch the Fives. I am very very happy with it. But I always drool over the Fluance RT-85. Great Canadian company that punches waay above its price it seems. My problem is now I sooo want to upgrade to the new Klipsch Sevens or Nines. I will be eagerly waiting for your review of them....
My personal preference at this price point is the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon which has a better tone arm and a more refined sound. The Rega is definitely a popular choice at its price point and there are after market upgrades that will improve its performance as well thanks to its popularity. If one wanted to buy a turntable with the intention of keeping it for a long time I’d be tempted to get a Technics SL-1200 Mk7 which is potentially cheaper than the Rega Planar 3 depending on the cartridge. The Technics turntables are extremely robust and you never have to worry about replacing the belt.
I ran a vintage Pioneer Pl-518 direct drive with the At440ml Occ for many years, I thought it sounded great. But then I moved the At440 to the Fluance Rt-85, Wow, it was night and day, highs smoothed out, bass increased. Sounds like a new system. Recently moved the 440 to my secondary turntable and installed a Atvm95sh and a Shiit Mani 2, another quantum leap! I'm a happy camper now.
I have Fluance RT84. Only thing that I don't have is plater so If I upgrade the plater. Then I have RT85. I like this turntable. It's my first turntable. I have no complaint! Thank you
I have been building and adding since the 70s. Right now I run a 70s vintage United audio 1229 w an ortofon 2m blue. A Marantz 1650 powers that and because space is a factor a set of klipsch reference cinema speakers. It's a great system for a little space. The 1229 sounds even better than new once the cartridge was installed.
very good video thomas! ive been audio -philiac-ing since about 1964.started with a zenith transistor radio tucked under my pillow at night.. i still have my elac miracord turntable from about 1969,, purchased at radio shack. i cant remember what shure cartridge is being used.. but ,it still plays wonderfully. the first lp i played was [king crimson] in the court of the crimson king. i have no desire to replace it...
Good video. I have DENON DP-300F with Ortofon Bronze cartridge. I place it on top 1 cm thick dampening mat with 16 kg weight granite slab. In my ears it sounds just nice now. Speakers are on dampening mat too. Without dampening in house what is made of wood, it sounds terrible. I tested it.
2m blue is a bright cartridge. The Nagaoka MP110H that comes with the RT85N is better IMHO. I bought the RT85, and fitted the Nagaoka MP110H, less listening fatigue.
Thanks for choices and the perspectives. I was headphone centric with a minimalist set up for many moons; returning to the vinyl love revival but who at first, was not quite sure if it was going to take hold. Like many, I started with a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon. Chose the red plinth, added an acrylic platter, went with the Ortofon blue and combined it with some high quality vintage components. Loved it. 3.5 years years on, considering a move up to something like a Rega P3 or 6 though now, with some new speakers and a Freya, I find that I’m digging on that entry level TT in a whole new way. Just reminds me of your earlier points on component synergy and what it can reveal and surprise you with when you change up the configuration.
Thomas, as always good show. I have a Thorens TD 318. Bought it at an absolute steal $160.00, a few years ago of ebay. Still in great condition. Looking to buy a new turntable, as I just finished setting up a new experimental system.
Hi! Thanks for your video. I currently own an audio-technica AT-LP60XBT plugged directly on an Edifier R1280DBs, and I'm stepping up to the Fluance RT85 + a Klipsch R-51 PM (which has phono built in). I'm wondering if I should buy a separate phono pre-amp instead of using the R-51 embedded one, or just go with it for now and decide that later.
Project debut carbon with the acrylic platter. Running an ortofon bronze. Did look at the fluance but was able to pick up the project for 450.00 the a year later upgraded the cartridge.
Hello Thomas. As usual I really enjoyed your review. My turntable is a Pro-Ject ExPerience SB. It cam with a Ortofon 2m Silver, (spherical diamond) which was OK. I already had a 2m Blue, so I took the stylus of the Blue (elliptical) put it on the Silver (Silver windings) and the improvement was immense. Now I am using a Nagaoka MP150. Schiit Mani is my phono pre-amp. Results are very enjoyable, not fatiguing. My amplifier is a Willsenton R8. My speakers are Triangle BRO9. Besides over 100 hour run in, all that they needed to tighten up the bass and imaging was some real spikes that go through my rather thick carpeting. The little screw one ‘nibs’ that come with the speakers just don’t do anything… Please keep up the excellent work. Very curious to listen to the review of your new integrated amp. Very intriguing.
Hello Thomas, I've very ltd collection myself too, so a stock Fluance rt82 does the job just fine. If needing an awesome vinyl "fix" I go to fellow music lovers places, they don't mind. Great explanation of gear synergy.
Fluance RT81+ Elite - I'm not an audiophile, but I enjoy the process of listening to music. Not just to click and swipe and click to listen to my favorite song or artist. It is more to celebrate, if you will, the music, approach to listening to music, and spend some extra seconds to prepare things to listen to music. It's like reading a book and listening to an audiobook.
Project T1 which replaced my Rega RP1 from about 10 years ago. The Project is a very very good sounding turntable and it comes with the Ortofon OM 5E Cartridge. After 1 year of use I know I made the right decision in this upgrade.
I'm currently spinning my Yamaha YP 211. And you're spot on with your comments about set up. I was originally running the Yamaha with a lower end cartridge through my Carver PM 1090. The sound just wasn't right. I upgraded to the Audio Technica AT100E cartridge, and switched to my old sweetheart Denon PM 777 integrated amp, and OH MY GOODNESS! I fell in love with that Yamaha all over again. The sound is rich, detailed, non fatiguing, sweet. The bass is back, and the vocals are so realistic. BTW... The speaker set up remained unchanged through all of this: rebuilt pair of Infinity Crescendos and a pair of nearly new Klipsch kg4 speakers.
I'll take the Rega all day over the Fluance (even with the price difference). I may be biased because I do have the P3. I am looking to add a Technics direct drive to replace a vintage direct drive that recently stopped working. Disclaimer: I am by no means an audiophile, so budget is a big consideration. Even with that said I'll still pick the Rega because it will last longer than the Fluance. It's just build better.
I'm going to have to disagree with your last point. I doubt the rega will last any longer than the fluance. I've worked on both and the parts that matter are absolutely comparable as far as longevity is concerned. They do sound very different, and yes the P3 generally is better, but at 3x the price it should be.
@@JC-lk3oy not 3x here in UK.Just had a quick check, saw Fluance @ £499, just seen at least three shops selling Rega P3 from £680 depending on cart. 😉 Have no idea on the quality of Fluance parts admittedly. 😉 Just tonight ordered an RP6 from a shop (pre-owned mint) for a good price, I'm a happy bunny. This will be the forth Rega I own, so definitely biased. 😉 Happy listening all. 😉
Like Twang Thang57, I have a heavily modded Rega. Its an older Rega RP6 with the RB3000 tone arm of the newer P10 and some other mods. I think he was right about the cartridge being mostly responsible for the sound you heard.I'm an older guy and have never been without a turntable. Mine is the King source of my system. I have yet to make streaming sound consistently good.
I have my grandfather’s Garrard 301, and it was the catalyst for my obsession with hifi. The merits of any turntable ultimately come down to the motor, spindle bearing, tonearm and cartridge working together as a system.
The phono preamp matters quite a bit as well - if it messes up nothing about the signal the frontend you described will make its way to the amplifier or the speakers.
I am using a rega P2 with the included carbon cartridge, along with an iFi ZEN phono preamp. At first I was contemplating upgrading the basic cartridge, but I have found that it's actually a very good MM cartridge and for my rather small record collection of around 200 records it's quite a decent little turntable. My P2 is the latest version with the adjustable tonearm bias. I should also comment that the Rega build quality is remarkable for the cost.
This is the combination I've been looking at ie) The Rega planar 2 with ifi phono amp especially with me living in the UK I believe Rega have a lifetime guarantee I don't know if that's right. Anyway can I ask why you bought the ifi ? Does your amp not have a phono amp in it or is the quality of the ifi just much better than your internal 1?
Nice insightful review, as usual! I have 2 requirements outside of quality and performance. 1. Gotta have a real dust cover 2. Gotta be semi or full auto. Most of my vinyl listening is at night and more often than not, I fall asleep whilst an album is playing. I used a B&O TX-2 for about 20 years, with a MMC3 and then a SMMC2 cartridge . With no cartridge variety to choose from other than NOS B&O or *Soundsmith, the TX-2 became the backup tt for my Technics sl-1610. The 1610 is the automatic version of the 1200 without the dj gimmics and the easily adjustable VTA. It's currently using a Nagaoka MP-200 cartridge. * Nothing against Soundsmith, they make outstanding cartridges. I just wanted to try other makes and types of cartridges.
Answering your questions (pre-Conclusion). I own an original Rega Planar 2 from 1976? 1977? that I bought new back then. I paired it with an Ortofon MC20 and their pre-pre-amp. It's in its box in the basement where it's been for 20 years now. I expect the belt is dust and I know that the MC20 suspension is shot. I listen to streamed music now and have for ... yeah, 20 years. I am just beginning to get an itch to listen to my old vinyl once again, so I'm kind of looking around at what's out there in the world. My hope is that a new $100 Rega belt and a new MM cartridge might actually do the trick for me. I enjoyed your discussion here. Thanks!
A replaceable headshell is, for daily use, much preferable. This is why I end up using my old late 70s Dual belt drives (1242/510/1246/1237, many more long traded in) far more than my superior sounding MusicHall/Pro-Ject MMF-2.2LE with a few tweaks. I have never tried the Fluance RT85, but I have enough cartridges and headshells, to make it a better and preferable buy, compared to the Rega.
You asked "what is stopping me from getting one (RT-85)?" ANSWER: the Ortofon Blue cartridge. I've heard it on 2 or 3 other TTs as well, and it's just too bright sounding for my taste. I settled on the Fluance RT-83, which comes with the Ortofon Red cartridge. It suits my ears far better. Your videos are solid, BTW. Keep up the good work.
2 ปีที่แล้ว +1
I have a Pro-Ject 1Xpression III (not the newer Classic or Comfort versions) with their separate Speedbox II and a 2M Blue cartridge, must be around 10 years old now. Use the built in phonostage on my Rega Elicit-R.
Maybe i missed it, which cartridge came on your RT85? Im very curious about the Nagaoka version. My system is on the warmer side (tube front end with Rega Fono mini phono preamp), so maybe the RT85 would work for me. Im currently running a Uturn Orbit with thr Grado Black cartridge. It could definitely use more detail though.
Nice comprehensive video! I have a VPI Prime with a Soundsmith cartridge and a PS Audio phono preamp, a Rega Planar 1 with a Nagaoka 110 cartridge and a Schiit Mani phono preamp, an Ariston table with an Ortofon cartridge and a B&O table with it's supplied cartridge.
Money is stopping me from buying one:) Whats your opininon on the DUAL CS 418, DENON 300F and TEAC N 280? I want a good cheap mid range record player. The Fluance is not available in Europe.
I bought a ProJect Carbon to get back into vinyl, and then a pristine Pioneer PL-A35 automatic. Love the Pioneer playing through a Parasound phono preamp . . . . . . Best Buy sold off their ProJect turntables a couple months ago for $99!!!!!
I own a Thorens TD240-2 automatic turntable with an Ortofon Mc3 turbo cartridge. The cartridge sounds very bright so I have to turn down the treble control.
Marantz 6370Q turntable (appears to be somewhat rare) with Nagaoka 110 cartridge. Mac C-26 preamp, Yamaha M-85 amp. Mk S1b speakers. 2- 12" subs. Bi-amp system, lot's of power and such ease with dynamic swings. Never breaks a sweat.
I run the RT-85 through a Schitt Mani / Beringer215 balanced EQ /Parasound Hint6 into modified Klipsch RP600m / Aperion super tweeters/ 12in Klipsch sub. I like the orthodontist 2m blue but wonder if the Nagaoka 110 that they offer would help round off the sharp top end? Thanks for the review
Just got my new Fluance RT-85. Very pleased thus far.
I own both a Fluance RT85 and a Rega RP3. Both have the Ortofon Blue Cartridge. I would give the sonic edge ever so slightly to the Rega. I would say it’s slightly smoother on the top end. Why?…. I have no clue. But given the same cartridge, there is clearly some element coming from the table. Could be speed stability, or influence of the tonearm, but there is something slightly better about the Rega. HOWEVER…. I give a big edge to the Fluance in ease of use. Setup is a breeze, basically ready to play out of the box. Speed control is a switch, not a pulley adjustment. I like the platter better on the Fluance as well as the adjustable feet. Another BIG plus for the Fluance is the removable headshell. Extras are available at a reasonable price, making cartridge changes a snap. I love my Rega, but If I had to buy only one, it would be the Fluance. Ease of use combined with very good sound quality means I use it more!
Would be very curious if you can do the assessment totally BLIND.... Harder to do on TT's... I did blind testing on three different DACs analog outputs fed into my integrated amp simultaneously, d and the difference for me and my test subject's ears are frankly, minor on my setup.
I will receive in a few days a new phono cable for my Fluance RT85: the cable is an Impact SX from Audio Sensibilité. My goal is to slightly attenuate the high frequencies. I will let you know about my experience later.
The speed control is the number one reason I went for a Pro-Ject X1 instead of a P3/RP3. Got too much records that have to play at 45. Didn't know about Fluance back then, but that brand isn't really available over here anyway.
Also depends on the capacitance and resistance loading to the phone pre amp, wiring in both tt would have different capacitance, reactance, this would influence treble response, if you compensated for these, by having a phono pre amp with different loading, I bet you won't tell the difference?
I returned the Fluance and kept my Rega.
My first turntable in 1978 was a planar 2 with audiolab arm and denon 103 with a step up transformer. It was pure bliss. My kids wrecked it. 8 years ago I replaced it with a 1000 dollar music hall. It made me cry. That brightness. I now have a rega planar 8 apheta2 and a parasound jc 3 phono stage. Happy again
Yes vinyl is special.
You still hold the torch as the honest reviewer.
Keep up the good work.
Rarely do I see a TH-camr review without constant editing jitter. You are a very good presenter. Well done sir.
I agree. I hate all the stupid video for dummies cut gimmicks.
I have vintage equipment: a Marantz 2285B receiver and Cerwin Vega AT12 speakers, all in excellent condition. I’m not working with a large budget so I did my homework on replacing my Pioneer turntable. I chose the Fluance RT 85 because of the Ortofon Blue, the acrylic platter, the great reviews and the $500 price. My system turns out a beautiful soundstage now with vinyl. I am so pleased with this unit and would recommend it to anyone.
A lot of the tonal characteristics you describe are coming from the Ortofon Blue. The RT85 is also offered with a Nagaoka 110, which is a much smoother, natural sounding cartridge. I have one on my heavily modded Rega at the moment.
I think you're probably right. I've heard 2M Blue's on a few different tables, and they all displayed those general characteristics Thomas mentioned.
You're right re. 'smooth', but whether or not it sounds more 'natural' is a subjective matter. I ran the MP 110 for a long time and found it more 'muffled' than 'natural' myself.
I remember hearing the same tryin to decided on the MP-110 vs Ortaphon Blue for my AT VTA Carbon deck. From a test press record, the MP-110 was also amazing for inner groove distortion while the Blue was buzzing slightly.
Do you know if Fluance sells the RT85 without a cartridge? I really would like to get an RT85, but don't like how they force you either/or on a cartridge. I find it interesting they charge the same price, when the MP-110 can be had for $90 less compared to the Ortaphon Blue. It should be $410 for the MP-110 equipped turntable. But really, let me buy the turntable without a cartridge.
He mentioned it was the RT85N at around 2:10.
Edit: And then he shows the 2M Blue. 🤷♂️
A turntable does not have a frequency response, a cartridge does. The tonality of a cartridge is effected by the arm and headshell, but the turntable has less to do with this aspect. It makes more sense to talk about rumble and wow & flutter when describing turntables.
Fluance now offers the Nagaoka MP110 for the Fluance called RT-85N, and that cart takes that treble edge off so it's more balance and has a warmer sound profile, which would sound better for recordings done in the analog era.
With a "softer" or "warmer" system the Blue is just great!
Nice review. I decided to dip my toe back into vinyl. I have owned the Fluance for approx a year. Agree that for the money it’s as good as tables twice the price. I have a 4B cubed, Parasound pre amp, and series 3 golden ear so not a cheap system. Works extremely well again considering the price. Cheers.
My first table was the AR XT way back in 1964. I have had many tables since. I now have 2 Arbit specials, 2 AT 129 USB and a Fluance RT 85. I have the Ortofon Bkue, the Nagaoga MP 110 and my beloved Grados, Black, Green, Blue and red. I do enjoy your videos. At the end of the day I try to listen to the music and not the equipment,
I'm probably the weird audiophile out of all of you. I run two fully restored vintage Duals, a 701 and a 1219. Variety, being the spice of life though, I'm intrigued the different options. I now have the -itis, the upgrade-itis and am look at a Technics SL-1500c, Thorens TD124 and a Dual (2024) CS-618q. But Fluance has me fascinated, and I'm very happy @Thomas made this video. Great input Thomas, Thank you.
I have the RT85 in bamboo. I’ve upgraded to the Ortofon 2m Bronze, going into a Schiit Mani. I love it. It has good synergy with the rest of my system. I honestly don’t feel the need to upgrade further.
You found the Bronze to be a significant enough upgrade? I also have a bamboo RT85. Sounds great (just installed a Mani 2 last night-wow!). It is a little too bright, however.
@@ScottAClarke yes, detail is better and bass is WAY better defined.
Ya I agree I went to the bronze and a Moon110 preamp
Hey Mark. I am actually in need of a stylus upgrade and have been thinking about a bronze or even a black. I also have an rt85. And was wondering if a black would be wasted on the 85. Your saying an upgrade to a bronze is a nice jump from the blue on the fluance table? Thanks in advance for your response. Joe
@@IREMEMBERNOW I haven't listened to the 2m Black, so I have no opinion on that. Maybe when the Bronze wears out I'll get one. The RT85 is a solid table. I can't imagine the Black would be wasted on it.
Also check out my lastest HEDD video th-cam.com/video/7Uw6MoQ3qTg/w-d-xo.html
Non-affiliated link for the light reliablecorporation.ca/collections/lighting
In the interest of transparency, Fluance did not want the turntable back after the review.
Hey Thomas !! Zen or schiit ?? You should follow up with a vid on that since you're dealing with entry vinyl stuff.
Love Thomas' reviews and I was literally just considering the Rega P3 50th anniversary turntable and I have the Fluance RT 85 already with the Ortofon blue so glad I ran across this comparison.
I am also tempted by the anniversary edition. Did you hear how it sounds?
I'm still using my Systemdek Limited Edition purchased in 1985. it has a Sumiko MMT tone arm, I believe made by Jelco. Currently using a Goldring 1006 cartridge runninh thru a Ifi ipono3 black preamp. Sometimes I think about getting a new turntable, but this just keeps working really well.
I have had the RT-85 for 2 years with the Ortofon 2M Blue it is very dynamic. The acrylic platter is a real looker. Biggest issues are there is no VTA adjustment for cartridge upgrades and the tone arm and the cueing lever feel like cheap plastic, so every time I use it I feel like I have a cheap setup.
For the price is it a deal breaker? One of the reasons I went Rega was because there was some* room for things like power and MC cart upgrades. I think the RT 85 is a bit more limited but hard to beat for the price.
@@briang530which Rega and cartridge do you have? How is the tone? I am tempted to go for the Rega 3 50 anniversary edition
@@gianlucazanon1505 P3* and a Hana SL (used to run a Goldring E3 and P2 which also sounded great but the P2 didn't have much upgrade path).
RT 85 is a good, if limited, TT. Depending on what you want to spend on the whole system, it might be totally adequate. When one upgrades one thing then the temptation is to keep it up because "that item has more potential than my other things". It never ends. A P2/E3 cart would be uploade over an RT 85, but look at what you want to accomplish/how much you want to spend first.
Fluance RT-85 is my go to for listening to vinyl about 20% of the time vs CD and streaming. I definitely listen to more digital vs vinyl, but the RT-85 definitely holds its own under a $1000.
Just got the RT85 about a month ago. Love it have the zen phono. So clean
Currently using a Rega P1, but in the upgrade itch phase. Great vid as always!
Please be aware the itch can get out of hand. Please feel free to check out my channel for proof! 😉
Thanks for the video Thomas. Great job. Love turntable reviews
Thanks for watching!
I have a Technics SL-1210GR turntable and a Nagoaka MP-200 cartridge fed into a new Marantz Model 30 integrated amplifier with the fantastic 'Marantz Musical' built-in preamp, and the original Elac Uni-fi floor-standers...Absolute glory!
I have the RT 85 and replaced the Ortofon Blue with a Nagaoka MP150. I am completely satisfied with this combination. The Nagaoka is a great match with this turntable.
That. That’s what I plan on getting. I’ve read good things about that combo.
Nice I would like to do that maybe down the road. Just got my 85 for xmas and I must say I love the blue after it settles in it really opens up.
❤ thanks for the great video! I have an RT81 fitted with an Audio Technica xp5 and redhead shell that I purchased separately and it sounds magnificent even better than my 2m red! Plenty of detail and very smooth at both extremes.
Especially in terms of timbral realism, articulation/imaging and dynamic expression of a turntable, the cartridge quality is very important indeed.
It terms of importance in the overall turntable package a great cartridge can make the difference between a fine performance and a truly addictive one.
@timbre7999 So, what/which are you endorsing?
Good video, good topic. Try a different cartridge! I own an RT84 which is basically the RT83 with an OM2 Blue. They have discontinued that combination. I think the cartridge is about 70% of the sound and the tracking and speed accuracy of the table make up the balance. I agree the OM2 Blue is really bright and not very detailed. I upgraded to an Audio Technica VM540ML/H Headshell/Cartridge Combo Kit with a Schiit Mani pre. It transformed my vinyl listening. Super smooth, very airy top end, detailed and smooth natural sounding mid-range with great bass detail, texture and depth. Everything sounds salubrious now. Seriously I used to own a Versa Dynamic table back in the early 90's (approx $8000.00 USD) and I am as happy with my Fluance as I think I was back in the day with the Versa Dynamics unit. I do know the Fluance is far more reliable and easier to live with. I listen to vinyl on average every other day. I couldn't be happier.
Nice, thanks for sharing such a long story.
+1.... I did exactly the same with my RT85; the AT VM540ML is a great improvement over the Orto Blue. I'm not sure it's perfectly aligned because no VTL is possible except maybe via different matt thickness and the cueing mechanism is at the limits of adjustment but highly satisfied!
@@dennismanning6684hello I have an 85 and I was thinking about the vmml as an upgrade but I was worried about the VTA, did you make any other adjustments other than just the cartridge? If so could elaborate any thing would be greatly appreciated. I have been also looking at the E3 as it also has a 20°vta.
I'm using the rt85 and I love it on my old jazz and blues albums and as for bass I have two 15" velodynes with Yamaha amp
On your recommendation and review l got the BC Accustiwue 214, Magnapan LRS, IOTA NP3 ( indirectly through SA3), and by other You Tubers the Fluance RT85 with the iFi Zen phono amp. I also augmented the Manapans with the SVS SB1000 pro. So with all budget gear affordable l get better sound than ever before. Thanks Thomas. You are honest and sincere in your reviews!
Nice, congrats and thanks
Hi Thomas
I have the RT85 for over a year now, replacing a Project Debut carbon that made me so angry with an after warranty issue with the cue lever not dropping the stylus to the record. Traded for an LP credit at a repair shop. I was glad to see you have a soft touch with your your carbon fibre brush on the video. I thought something was wrong a few days ago with the RT85 motor. Using a Fluance carbon fibre brush on a really clean Goodwill copy of Taco, After Eight, with a gentle touch (I thought) made the record slip on the acrylic platter. Looking like the motor was
toast. Made me lookup the warranty. 2 years. One of the rpm apps told me the accuracy was dead on. Just a heads up. Acrylic platters sure ain’t felt, rubber, or cork!
Mike
Yep I find this out as will, now I use a weight and have not had a problem since
I have an Audio Technica AT-LP1240-USB Direct Drive DJ turntable - solid, heavy, and dependable. I didn't want to deal with belts. I digitize and edit my recordings with 3rd party software as I listen to a lot of music on the road on my Poweramp app for my LG Android phone, hence the USB line for desktop. I find this turntable leaning bright so I balance it with an Ortofon Red (I should try a Nagaoka). I really enjoy the process of digging (for vinyl records), collecting first presses and reissues, cleaning records, recording them, and editing digitized albums. Thanks for your video.
Used to have p3…loved it. Now have technics 1210GR…on another level!
Nice review! The RT85 does seem to be the $500 budget king. I have a Pro-Ject Classic EVO, apparently I have thing for old looking gear.
I have a Fluance RT85 VERY happy with it. No regrets I play it for my friends two have bought their own.
I have a VPI HW40 with a Koetsu Jade connected to an Hashimoto SUT-H7 connected to a Harron VTPH-2a (w/NOS Tubes) phono stage. It’s pretty magical setup.
So, a couple of months ago I answered your question on what turntable I have. JVC JL-A40. After having it since new, late 70s, a part broke so I decided to get a new unit. My choice was the Fluance RT85. When you consider all the pluses, it’s a no brainer. It’s the best bang for the buck.
I know I'm a little late to the party by about 300 comments but I own and love a Pioneer PL-530 direct drive turntable. I've used other ones but this one in particular fits the bill for style and ease of use. I think all turntables should have pitch controls by default and the mechanism that lowers the tonearm automatically is a godsend for people with shaky hands.
Late is better than did not!
TY! Thomas! Nice review!
Glad you liked it!
Did you get your Amp yet? How did it sound with it. I have the option to get the rega planar 2 open box for same price as rt85. Should I consider it? Also how that Fluance comes with the Nagaoka cartridge with a washer sound is that something you would consider given the 2m blue is a little more on the higher sounding end? I know sound is subjective but just wanted your opinion thanks! Also love your detail and calm presentation. 👌🏾
I completely agree, every turntable should come with a dust cover.
Thomas, I don't have a turntable, sold my 1000 piece vinyl 20 years ago.
And yes it still hurts and now sometimes I want to start again.
Grtz Phil
Hello Thomas. I recently bought an Audio Technica AT-LP120XUSB ($350USD) and I’m enjoying it, after having many cheaper and more expensive turntables. Something about the direct drive is enjoyable to use for me. The included AT-VM95E cartridge has lots of stylus upgrade possibilities as well.
Yay LP-120XUSB! punches waaay above its price point, especially with an Ortofon Blue and Ifi Zen pre-amp!
Thomas, I never gave up on records since 1973 when I bought my first record. I had Rega RP3. I now have a Michelle Orbe, SME 309, Dynavector XX2.
In answer to your question, I say the cartridge is an intrinsic part of the whole. The arm and phono stage are just as important.
Hi Thomas. I used to own a Clear Audio Emotion turntable with an Eastern Electric tube phono stage and loved the sound. sadly I needed funds and sold all my turntable gear years ago. I no longer have room for a turntable hence why my vinyl is in the shed. My vinyl sessions were great days but I don't really miss them now, as I play CDs and stream. The joys of getting older as streaming is so convenient at a touch of a button 😁
Yeah, I totally get that.
Totally agree on the dustcover - It's an accident waiting to happen. And those aftermarket ones are too clunky for me.
I have owned too many turntables in my lifetime. I have sold most, and these are the ones I liked best. Linn LP12, Linn Axis, Thorens TD-124, Rega P2 or P3, Marantz T15, VPI Scoutmaster, and I really have tweaked my Audio Technica LP1240 to sing when I absolutely need a removable headshell table. I returned an early Fluance table some time ago with a letter on how it could be improved. I am sure the new ones are much better.
Hi there, Is an old Linn LP12 worth the headache at around $1800 with a Jelco Oem tonearm and an adikt cartridge ?
@tango_gru It depends on the shape, serial number, and upgrades. Ask what power supply it has. Ask about the bearing. Jelco arms have really gone up in price lately, even though they are removeable headshell. What is the serial number, and does it have a clear lid?
Thorens TD125 Mk II with a Shelter 501 Mk III cartridge on a Rega 303 tonearm with Incognito tonearm wiring. Using an E.A.R. 834P phonostage.
I brought the Thorens and SME 3009 tonearm back to California from London during a trip through Europe in the summer of 1973. My brother inherited the same model turntable with an SME 3009 with detachable headshell from his father-in-law. My brother refurbished it and built a new base with an exotic hardwood. I delivered the turntable to my niece in Portland last week. She loves vinyl. Very cool that she's using her grandfather's turntable.
Nice review , I own a fairly big vinyl collection however I don't listen often so a few years ago I picked up a Rega P1 and for the money have no regrets , falls in line with the Fluance price .
I have an E.A.T. Forte S with the Macassar finish, a 12" E.A.T. F-Note polished-aluminum tonearm, and a Hana Umami Red phono cartridge. I use the Nordost Heimdall phono cable, but the F-Note tonearm does not have a place to attach the ground cable. When I touch the ground cable anyplace on the tonearm base, the noticeable hum goes away. Not only that, the DIN cable does not insert all the way into the tonearm input so it hangs down slightly after pushing it in as far as I could. This also happens with the included E.A.T. phono cable.
My concern with the RT 85 had mainly to do with its short 8 1/2 arm, sure a half inch under a standard 9" arm might not seem so much but the shorter the arm the greater the inner groove distortion is going to be. The RT 85 is a fantastic value considering you get a mid market cart and a acrylic platter on day one which are two upgrades everything else at the price point can not offer. If I had to choose a new turntable at this price point still would have to choose the ProJect Debut Carbon Evo for $100 more because of the much better arm and the supplied Sumiko Rainier cart is parallel with the 2M Blue if not just a bit more warmer and musical.
❤ this is a very nice video and thank you for sharing your love for vinyl I have the rt81 fitted with the Audio-Technica xp5 and it sounds superb even better than the 95e that it originally came with. I prefer it over my 1997 Rega P2 with upgraded glass platter and Pickering XSV-3000 phono pickup.
Thank you for this great video. I like the Fluance very much. Such a great value for the price. I am currently using my Pioneer PL 505 which I bought in 1985.
I had a Project Debut Carbon with Ortofon Blue and acrylic platter. I just upgraded to a Music Hall Stealth DD Table that came with the Blue cartridge. WORLDS OF DIFFERENCE! This Stealth is a sleeper product.
You can now choose between two cartridges, your complaints would probably be less of an issue with the Nagaoka MP-110 rather than the Ortofon 2M Blue.
Thanks for the video.... and for the equipment suggestions. The Fluance turntable is beautiful... The platter is so cool.
- I had a Dual turntable back in the day. It wasn't top top notch, but was somewhat high level. At the time, there were no other options... so I did the best I could with what I could get. The problem was bass feedback... Any time the volume was up... Well you know the deal. I don't want to go back to those problems. How do you deal with damping / feedback?
I have a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon that I have upgraded the sub platter, replacing the plastic one with an aluminum one, upgraded the platter with an acrylic one, upgraded the phono cables and am running a Grado Opus III high output moving iron cartridge. My previous cartridge was the Ortofon 2M Blue. The Grado is warmer than the Blue and the highs are smoother, although not always as detailed as the Blue, it is more enjoyable to listen to. Putting on a different cartridge could drastically change the characteristics of the RT85 as it did on my Pro-Ject. As always, I enjoy your videos. Keep up the good work.
My phono stage is a VPI Clifford
I can’t help but wonder how much of the sound is the turntable and how much is the cartridge. Ortofon cartridges are well known to be bright sounding. If you put on a different cartridge (such as the Nagaoka line), would that add to the bass response of the Fluance? I would try that and see how it sounded.
I have a Rega P3.
I auditioned it against a Project RPM model that was aprox $3000
After I'd listened to Ortofon Blue, Red and Black cartridges on each turntable - it was clear that the Rega was as good as the more expensive Project.
In the 4 years since that decision, I've upgraded my P3, each upgrade has improved the sound.
I had the same experience, project sound it is very unengaging, i had a mid level project rpm6 for many year, then I bought a rega rp6, also a mid level turntable and the sound or the rega was way more musical, engaging and enjoyable, after that I sold the rpm6.
I recently purchased an RT85N which includes the Nagaoka MP-110 Cartridge. It would be interesting for you to do an updated video comparing the 85 and 85n and also again the 85n compared to your Rega. From what I understand the main difference between the 2 cartridges the Nagaoka MP-110 Cartridge sounds a bit fuller/warmer while the Ortofon 2M Blue sounded sharper or possibly even more towards hd or digital like. I personally like the warmer sound when listening to vinyl so that's the reason I went for the 85N.
Hi Thomas. Another good video. I have eight turntables I still believe they are the best source you can have for any HiFi system. Also, once I like them, I just can’t make myself to get rid of them. It’s a weird kind of relationship :-) Here is the list: Pioneer Pl-12D(1971), Technics SL-D3 direct drive(1978), JVC QL-F4 direct drive(1980s), Project Espirit(2009), Pioneer PLX-1000 direct drive(2016), MoFi Ultradeck(2021), Technics SL-1500C (2022) and finally a VPI Scout(2016).
" ... I have 8 turntables... "😃
Not sure why, but I see number 9 on the horizon...
Always love your videos Thomas! You are a natural on camera, very relaxing to view. I have an Audio technica LP120XUSB with an Ortofon Blue cartridge and an Ifi Zen pre-amp through Klipsch the Fives. I am very very happy with it. But I always drool over the Fluance RT-85. Great Canadian company that punches waay above its price it seems. My problem is now I sooo want to upgrade to the new Klipsch Sevens or Nines. I will be eagerly waiting for your review of them....
My personal preference at this price point is the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon which has a better tone arm and a more refined sound. The Rega is definitely a popular choice at its price point and there are after market upgrades that will improve its performance as well thanks to its popularity. If one wanted to buy a turntable with the intention of keeping it for a long time I’d be tempted to get a Technics SL-1200 Mk7 which is potentially cheaper than the Rega Planar 3 depending on the cartridge. The Technics turntables are extremely robust and you never have to worry about replacing the belt.
What were the differences in sound between the Pro-ject and the Fluance?
Better tonearm better tracking.
I ran a vintage Pioneer Pl-518 direct drive with the At440ml Occ for many years, I thought it sounded great. But then I moved the At440 to the Fluance Rt-85, Wow, it was night and day, highs smoothed out, bass increased. Sounds like a new system. Recently moved the 440 to my secondary turntable and installed a Atvm95sh and a Shiit Mani 2, another quantum leap! I'm a happy camper now.
I have my rt85 for almost 2 yrs now and I really like it and thinking to upgrade from 2m blue to maybe nagaoka mp200 or ATVM540ml
I have Fluance RT84. Only thing that I don't have is plater so If I upgrade the plater. Then I have RT85. I like this turntable. It's my first turntable. I have no complaint! Thank you
My turntable was bought new. I have the JVC JL-A40. Semi auto, direct drive. I love it!
I have been building and adding since the 70s. Right now I run a 70s vintage United audio 1229 w an ortofon 2m blue. A Marantz 1650 powers that and because space is a factor a set of klipsch reference cinema speakers. It's a great system for a little space. The 1229 sounds even better than new once the cartridge was installed.
very good video thomas! ive been audio -philiac-ing since about 1964.started with a zenith transistor radio tucked under my pillow at night.. i still have my elac miracord turntable from about 1969,, purchased at radio shack. i cant remember what shure cartridge is being used.. but ,it still plays wonderfully. the first lp i played was [king crimson] in the court of the crimson king. i have no desire to replace it...
Good video.
I have DENON DP-300F with Ortofon Bronze cartridge. I place it on top 1 cm thick dampening mat with 16 kg weight granite slab. In my ears it sounds just nice now. Speakers are on dampening mat too. Without dampening in house what is made of wood, it sounds terrible. I tested it.
Great video. I'm using the current rega P6 with a Nagaoka MP-200
2m blue is a bright cartridge. The Nagaoka MP110H that comes with the RT85N is better IMHO.
I bought the RT85, and fitted the Nagaoka MP110H, less listening fatigue.
Thank you very much for the interesting video. What kind of cartridge do you have on your rega ? Thanks again
Elys2
Thanks for choices and the perspectives. I was headphone centric with a minimalist set up for many moons; returning to the vinyl love revival but who at first, was not quite sure if it was going to take hold. Like many, I started with a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon. Chose the red plinth, added an acrylic platter, went with the Ortofon blue and combined it with some high quality vintage components. Loved it. 3.5 years years on, considering a move up to something like a Rega P3 or 6 though now, with some new speakers and a Freya, I find that I’m digging on that entry level TT in a whole new way. Just reminds me of your earlier points on component synergy and what it can reveal and surprise you with when you change up the configuration.
Thomas, as always good show.
I have a Thorens TD 318. Bought it at an absolute steal $160.00, a few years ago of ebay. Still in great condition. Looking to buy a new turntable, as I just finished setting up a new experimental system.
Very nice!
Hi! Thanks for your video. I currently own an audio-technica AT-LP60XBT plugged directly on an Edifier R1280DBs, and I'm stepping up to the Fluance RT85 + a Klipsch R-51 PM (which has phono built in). I'm wondering if I should buy a separate phono pre-amp instead of using the R-51 embedded one, or just go with it for now and decide that later.
Project debut carbon with the acrylic platter. Running an ortofon bronze. Did look at the fluance but was able to pick up the project for 450.00 the a year later upgraded the cartridge.
Hello Thomas. As usual I really enjoyed your review. My turntable is a Pro-Ject ExPerience SB. It cam with a Ortofon 2m Silver, (spherical diamond) which was OK. I already had a 2m Blue, so I took the stylus of the Blue (elliptical) put it on the Silver (Silver windings) and the improvement was immense. Now I am using a Nagaoka MP150. Schiit Mani is my phono pre-amp. Results are very enjoyable, not fatiguing. My amplifier is a Willsenton R8. My speakers are Triangle BRO9. Besides over 100 hour run in, all that they needed to tighten up the bass and imaging was some real spikes that go through my rather thick carpeting. The little screw one ‘nibs’ that come with the speakers just don’t do anything… Please keep up the excellent work. Very curious to listen to the review of your new integrated amp. Very intriguing.
Soon soon!
Hello Thomas, I've very ltd collection myself too, so a stock Fluance rt82 does the job just fine. If needing an awesome vinyl "fix" I go to fellow music lovers places, they don't mind. Great explanation of gear synergy.
Fluance RT81+ Elite - I'm not an audiophile, but I enjoy the process of listening to music. Not just to click and swipe and click to listen to my favorite song or artist. It is more to celebrate, if you will, the music, approach to listening to music, and spend some extra seconds to prepare things to listen to music. It's like reading a book and listening to an audiobook.
Great review ! I am looking @ replacing my old Pioneer turn table which I had for over many years. I am seriously looking @ this Fluence or ProJect.
Project T1 which replaced my Rega RP1 from about 10 years ago. The Project is a very very good sounding turntable and it comes with the Ortofon OM 5E Cartridge. After 1 year of use I know I made the right decision in this upgrade.
I'm currently spinning my Yamaha YP 211. And you're spot on with your comments about set up. I was originally running the Yamaha with a lower end cartridge through my Carver PM 1090. The sound just wasn't right. I upgraded to the Audio Technica AT100E cartridge, and switched to my old sweetheart Denon PM 777 integrated amp, and OH MY GOODNESS! I fell in love with that Yamaha all over again. The sound is rich, detailed, non fatiguing, sweet. The bass is back, and the vocals are so realistic. BTW... The speaker set up remained unchanged through all of this: rebuilt pair of Infinity Crescendos and a pair of nearly new Klipsch kg4 speakers.
I'll take the Rega all day over the Fluance (even with the price difference). I may be biased because I do have the P3. I am looking to add a Technics direct drive to replace a vintage direct drive that recently stopped working. Disclaimer: I am by no means an audiophile, so budget is a big consideration. Even with that said I'll still pick the Rega because it will last longer than the Fluance. It's just build better.
Couldn't agree more, but I'm biased too. 😉
I'm going to have to disagree with your last point. I doubt the rega will last any longer than the fluance. I've worked on both and the parts that matter are absolutely comparable as far as longevity is concerned. They do sound very different, and yes the P3 generally is better, but at 3x the price it should be.
@@JC-lk3oy not 3x here in UK.Just had a quick check, saw Fluance @ £499, just seen at least three shops selling Rega P3 from £680 depending on cart. 😉
Have no idea on the quality of Fluance parts admittedly. 😉
Just tonight ordered an RP6 from a shop (pre-owned mint) for a good price, I'm a happy bunny. This will be the forth Rega I own, so definitely biased. 😉
Happy listening all. 😉
@@jimsregaturntableshifijukebox
Wow, such a price difference here. They usually go for around $1400 here.
@@JC-lk3oy Wow, expensive where you are. £880 RRP with exact here I believe.
Nice video Thomas very even thoughts. I run a Music Hall 7.1 with a Nagaoka MP110 cartridge love it to bits.
Like Twang Thang57, I have a heavily modded Rega. Its an older Rega RP6 with the RB3000 tone arm of the newer P10 and some other mods. I think he was right about the cartridge being mostly responsible for the sound you heard.I'm an older guy and have never been without a turntable. Mine is the King source of my system. I have yet to make streaming sound consistently good.
Did you let the 2M blue break in for at least 15 hours before the test it changes the whole characteristics of the cartridge
I have my grandfather’s Garrard 301, and it was the catalyst for my obsession with hifi. The merits of any turntable ultimately come down to the motor, spindle bearing, tonearm and cartridge working together as a system.
The phono preamp matters quite a bit as well - if it messes up nothing about the signal the frontend you described will make its way to the amplifier or the speakers.
Hi Adam, Which tonearm are you using on the 301? My money would be on the SME 3009/12!
The 301 is a holy grail table.Do you have a custom plinth with it?
@@trailingedgetechnologies2096 I have an 12 inch ortofon modified by Alfred Bokrand
@@jameswalls4172 yeah I built a plinth from birch plywood and wrapped in a cheery veneer
I am using a rega P2 with the included carbon cartridge, along with an iFi ZEN phono preamp. At first I was contemplating upgrading the basic cartridge, but I have found that it's actually a very good MM cartridge and for my rather small record collection of around 200 records it's quite a decent little turntable. My P2 is the latest version with the adjustable tonearm bias. I should also comment that the Rega build quality is remarkable for the cost.
This is the combination I've been looking at ie) The Rega planar 2 with ifi phono amp especially with me living in the UK I believe Rega have a lifetime guarantee I don't know if that's right. Anyway can I ask why you bought the ifi ? Does your amp not have a phono amp in it or is the quality of the ifi just much better than your internal 1?
Nice insightful review, as usual!
I have 2 requirements outside of quality and performance.
1. Gotta have a real dust cover
2. Gotta be semi or full auto. Most of my vinyl listening is at night and more often than not, I fall asleep whilst an album is playing.
I used a B&O TX-2 for about 20 years, with a MMC3 and then a SMMC2 cartridge . With no cartridge variety to choose from other than NOS B&O or *Soundsmith, the TX-2 became the backup tt for my Technics sl-1610.
The 1610 is the automatic version of the 1200 without the dj gimmics and the easily adjustable VTA. It's currently using a Nagaoka MP-200 cartridge.
* Nothing against Soundsmith, they make outstanding cartridges. I just wanted to try other makes and types of cartridges.
I currently use a Technics SL QL1 but am thinking about picking up this Fluanse
I've had the Fluance RT- 81 for 3 years. Im thinking of upgrading to RT- 85.
Answering your questions (pre-Conclusion). I own an original Rega Planar 2 from 1976? 1977? that I bought new back then. I paired it with an Ortofon MC20 and their pre-pre-amp. It's in its box in the basement where it's been for 20 years now. I expect the belt is dust and I know that the MC20 suspension is shot.
I listen to streamed music now and have for ... yeah, 20 years. I am just beginning to get an itch to listen to my old vinyl once again, so I'm kind of looking around at what's out there in the world. My hope is that a new $100 Rega belt and a new MM cartridge might actually do the trick for me.
I enjoyed your discussion here. Thanks!
Thanks for sharing.
A replaceable headshell is, for daily use, much preferable. This is why I end up using my old late 70s Dual belt drives (1242/510/1246/1237, many more long traded in) far more than my superior sounding MusicHall/Pro-Ject MMF-2.2LE with a few tweaks. I have never tried the Fluance RT85, but I have enough cartridges and headshells, to make it a better and preferable buy, compared to the Rega.
You asked "what is stopping me from getting one (RT-85)?"
ANSWER: the Ortofon Blue cartridge. I've heard it on 2 or 3 other TTs as well, and it's just too bright sounding for my taste. I settled on the Fluance RT-83, which comes with the Ortofon Red cartridge. It suits my ears far better.
Your videos are solid, BTW. Keep up the good work.
I have a Pro-Ject 1Xpression III (not the newer Classic or Comfort versions) with their separate Speedbox II and a 2M Blue cartridge, must be around 10 years old now. Use the built in phonostage on my Rega Elicit-R.
I own one of the older Rega Planar 2. When the motor was AC. It still fits the original Rega Bias 2 cartridge, in sharp green back then
Maybe i missed it, which cartridge came on your RT85? Im very curious about the Nagaoka version. My system is on the warmer side (tube front end with Rega Fono mini phono preamp), so maybe the RT85 would work for me. Im currently running a Uturn Orbit with thr Grado Black cartridge. It could definitely use more detail though.
Nice comprehensive video! I have a VPI Prime with a Soundsmith cartridge and a PS Audio phono preamp, a Rega Planar 1 with a Nagaoka 110 cartridge and a Schiit Mani phono preamp, an Ariston table with an Ortofon cartridge and a B&O table with it's supplied cartridge.
Very nice!
Money is stopping me from buying one:) Whats your opininon on the DUAL CS 418, DENON 300F and TEAC N 280? I want a good cheap mid range record player. The Fluance is not available in Europe.
I bought a ProJect Carbon to get back into vinyl, and then a pristine Pioneer PL-A35 automatic.
Love the Pioneer playing through a Parasound phono preamp . . .
. . . Best Buy sold off their ProJect turntables a couple months ago for $99!!!!!
I own a Thorens TD240-2 automatic turntable with an Ortofon Mc3 turbo cartridge. The cartridge sounds very bright so I have to turn down the treble control.
I own a Systemdek E4 with a Rega RB-300 arm and a Sumiko Blue Point Special EVO III. I've had this setup for years and have yet to tire of it.
Marantz 6370Q turntable (appears to be somewhat rare) with Nagaoka 110 cartridge. Mac C-26 preamp, Yamaha M-85 amp. Mk S1b speakers. 2- 12" subs. Bi-amp system, lot's of power and such ease with dynamic swings. Never breaks a sweat.
I run the RT-85 through a Schitt Mani / Beringer215 balanced EQ /Parasound Hint6 into modified Klipsch RP600m / Aperion super tweeters/ 12in Klipsch sub. I like the orthodontist 2m blue but wonder if the Nagaoka 110 that they offer would help round off the sharp top end? Thanks for the review