Pioneer PL-300: Type: direct drive Tonearm: static-balanced type, s-shaped pipe arm Cartridge weight range: 4-9g Motor: quartz PLL stable hanging rotor hall motor Wow and flutter: 0.025% Rumble: 75dB Price: Currently selling at $40-$80, used. (Price of unit may vary with condition and seller's greediness) Find one... get it serviced and fitted with a decent cartridge first... and enjoy something that was was sold/built new "cheaply" in the heyday of vinyl (+40 years ago) that out-performs at a level untouchable by the latest "affordable" stuff, for far less total outlay. =;)
Great video! I started with the RT83 myself, I’ve had it for almost 2 years now. Like others, I slowly upgraded mine. It currently has the acrylic platter and I have a nagaoka mp-110 waiting to be installed. I am curious about future cartridge options though. It seems that the lack of VTA adjustability really narrows the selection. Aside from that, the fluance line is a great value.
Great review! I purchased the RT85N as my first serious turntable. I know this was posted about 2 years ago. But it is still a very good value for the money. And have yet to see any others that match it in value. Keep up the good work!
I have had at least 6 turn tables in my 84 years and when I bought the RT-85 with the 2M blue I was blown away...it cost me more than you paid as the price is in USD and I am in Canada...the closest cartridge I could compare with Shure V15II which I still own...good show btw
Randy, you provide the best entertainment value by far on TH-cam for audio/vinyl enthusiasts. Plus some solid audio info to boot. Thanks for being on my wavelength, man.
Hi Randy. Sorry if this was already mentioned, but I didn't want to look through over 200 comments by others. I found on Fluance's web site in their resources section that in addition to the cartridge change, the other difference between the RT85 and RT85N is that they adjusted the tonearm on the RT85N to account for the configuration of the Nagaoka MP-110. Here is what they say: "The tonearm is lower on the RT85N to accommodate for the height of the Nagaoka Cartridge and VTA which differ greatly from the 2M cartridges. While the MP-110 can be used on the standard RT85 the vertical tracking angle may not be optimal." I was wondering if you notice a less than optimal performance of the MP-110 on your upgraded RT83.
It's also worth noting that ortofon also makes the '2mr' series which is lower profile than the regular 2m series at the same price to fit turntables like the Rega planar or other turntables that have a lower tone arm
I was asked by a friend to recommend a good turntable that would last, and not crazy expensive, in other words, a solid piece and good value. Based on 2M Blue, build quality, headshell and semiautomatic operation, the RT85 was easy to recommend and he's thrilled with it. The difference between cost and value is huge.
Hi Randy...good review! They seem like nice turntables and they would be at the top of my list if I was in the market. One thing you probably should mention is that when changing the head shell and cartridge, the whole tonearm assembly needs to be re-balanced due to different cartridge weights. After re-balancing the tracking force and anti-skating adjustments also need to be re-set too. Keep on trucking!
Have been using the MP-500 for 8 years now as my prime cartridge and just love it. Just got the MP-200 for office turntable. Soooo good to finally see a Nagaoka appearance after all this Ortofon overload.
@@cheapaudioman Go for it. I do have the MP-110 as a spare, so I know that one too. The step up towards the 200 is most significant, 200 to 500 is fairly marginal. The MP-200 is also more forgiving with less perfect records (e.g. worn grooves). It's probably the boron cantilever that plays the prime role. Glad to have them all, but knowing all that now, I'd be fully satisfied with the MP-200 alone.
Great review on the Fluance Reference line, Randy. I recently purchased an RT85 and upgraded the cartridge to an Audio-Technica VM540ML. Highly recommended - especially if you like the fuller, more balanced sound of the Nagaoka MP-110 over the Ortofon Blue - you’ll be impressed. After trying a handful of different cartridges over the past few years, I’m convinced that Audio-Technica is among the most ‘transparent’ of them all. It seems to bring out a rich, detailed sound that’s truer to the nature of the vinyl, plus whatever the sound signature of your specific turntable is. This as opposed to a cartridge like the Ortofon 2M Blue that often tends to overpower the music with it’s own characteristics. Appreciate your channel - cheers!
Appreciate your straightforward, honest assessments, keeping it simple, and throwing in some good humor - it's fun to learn from you. Your laid back demeanor while explaining things in just the right amount of detail is really helpful for those of us who have other things to worry about in addition to our audio equipment, so want the straight scoop presented efficiently, which really helps in making the right decisions. Just the right amount of enthusiasm included where you think it is warranted, and it is legit and so rubs off. RT-85 for me with maybe the Fosi pre-amp (love the tube look) to get myself back into the vinyl game for the first time since saying good-bye in the late 80's/early 90's. Thanks!
I'm the kind of person who, 99% of the time, makes the wrong decision, but buying the RT85 has proved SO right! I also like to swap my system around a lot, but since getting the RT85 around six months ago, I haven't felt the need to swap to any of my other three turntables at all. Proper value for money and great sound, too! Marvellous!
I purchased the RT85 with 2M Blue and matched it with the ifi Zen Phono amp, and It is everything you talked about in this video. The build quality of the turntable exceeds the price being asked. I got the bamboo finish, and think it's very beautiful! I purchased the turntable just when Fluance introduced the Nagaoka cartridge choice. I really wanted the bamboo finish, and it wasn't available at that time with the RT85N, so I went with the 2M Blue. So far, I love the sound. I have it connected to a tube amp, and I think the tubes help the 2M Blue to not sound too bright. At least , to my ears. Gotta say, I am one happy puppy! .
I agree with you 100%. I bought the RT85 with the Ortofon 2m blue a few months ago. Very happy with it. I considered Rega and Pro-ject but felt like the Fluance was the best deal with a great cartridge included. I also have experience with the Nagaoka mp110 cartridge and as you say it is a little fuller sounding but a little less detail than the Ortofon. The Ortofon works well for me and my ear.
I'm very pleased to hear Randy pronounce Nagaoka elegantly and accurately. It seems like a bunch of people can't seem to say Nagaoka without hurting themselves. I helped set up an RT82 a few days ago and I really liked it. I remember isolation being a really big deal for turntables before CDs came out. The RT82, and I assume everything above it in their line, had really excellent isolation from vibration in the surface that it sits on.
Pretty good. A little too hard on the "g" and a little bit "clippy" between the syllables. And, the first syllable "na" is too long while the last is too short (naa-ga-oka). It's an audio channel, so how things sound is important, right? LOL. But, yes, importantly he got all of the "a" sounds right, which is where most Americans chomp the bit with Japanese pronunciation.
I'm considering a Fluance RT85 and the more I hear about the Nagaoka MP-110, the more I think the Ortofon Blue would be more to my liking. I prefer a bit of brightness and so many descriptions of the Nagaoka make me think it'll be too warm for me. If it turns out that the Ortofon Blue is too bright for me, I can always mount an Audio Technica VM95-ML on the headshell. That's the cartridge I'm using now and I love it. I'd almost be surprised if the Ortofon Blue sounded any better to me since the AT95-ML is hitting my sweet spot, at least with my current equipment.
the blue sounds better than the MP-110, it's also $100 more than the nag in the retail box... I don't know why anyone would choose the RT-85N at the same price.
The Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Evo got my money last year. I really like it, but wish it had removable headshells , and acrylic platter. I Considered the RT85, but the limited availability had me go elsewhere. For the $500 price range most of the reviews at the time had the Pro-Ject rated at the top. I think it's really hard to say which is "best", since the features are slightly different and sound quality is very close to the same.
Thanks Randy, I appreciate you explaining the difference between the Nagaoka and the 2M Blue. I tried to go cheaper on a turntable and wasn't happy, I should have just gone up to this in the first place. Live, learn and listen. Thank you.
I'm glad you shared your impressions of the 2M Blue vs. the Nagaoka. That pretty much agrees with many other reviewers. The only thing that I found 'Grating' in your video, is please, Please, *PLEASE* don't state it like 'The TT was so good even compared to a high end DAC with high res files, it was that good!' UH... *NO!* Digital is digital, please sir, it is *NOT* the ultimate standard by which you measure analog. No, No, No...! But, otherwise... Thanks! 😁
I miss my Technics Sl1210 Mk2... Upgraded it with a Nagaoka MP-200 cartridge, and yes, i mounted the 1210 on some good isolation feet... Man! It sounded ace!!! Due to personal circumstances, it had to go some years back... It's one piece of equipment I WISH I'd kept..... 😕...
I started with Nagaoka MP 100…I thought if this sounds great I wonder what the MP150, then 200 sounds like? MP500!!! They sound amazing!!! Also, it pairs excellent with a Schitt Mani…the 150 is the sweet spot.
Fluance to this day has yet to sell me something I have disliked. I started with the white rt82. Loved it. It was my first real table. My wife loved it cause it was white and matched all of our farm house crap lol. I got their preamp. Sounds great. Now over time I've upgraded the table. First the acrylic platter, which made things so much better. If for the dust problem alone. I'm in a desert. One wipe of the platter, no more dusty side 2. Then I swapped the cartridge to the 2m red, I think I'll get the blue one day, but right now I'm so happy with the sound, I might not touch it. I drop the needle sometimes, close my eyes and just get transported to another world! If I could do it all over again I probably would have started with the rt85, but it's been fun to listen, tinker, and just enjoy music. Best part of it all I'm turning one of my kids into a vinyl head, so now I have a listening buddy! Life is good. Thanks Fluance
Best bang for buck seems to be, if you want both high end cartridges mentioned, is to get the normal RT-85 and then the Nagaoka separately. Fluance should do a “Connoisseur Pack” where they include both, in head shells. I’d totally spring for that.
5:24 If you want to keep a spare belt in top condition, store it in a zipbag with some talc powder. That way the rubber doesn't become brittle/deteriorates as quickly. 8:20 A heavier tonearm doesn't necessarily imply a "sonic penalty"... it's just that a heavier tonearm works better with lower compliance cartridges, while a lighter tonearm works better with higher compliance cartridges - it's all about synergy! 👍
@@garysiu5498 Yes it's usually specified, you should look at "dynamic compliance" in particular. Static compliance is also often given, but doesn't say much about the resonance in real life conditions. Compliance is basically the stiffness of the cartridge suspension/cantilever, with lower compliance meaning a higher stiffness and higher compliance meaning a more flexible suspension. The higher the compliance, the lower the tonearm weight/mass needs to be. The combination of tonearm mass and compliance results in a tonearm resonance frequency. These resonance frequencies will always be present within a tonearm, but to keep their effects to a minimum, they need to be within a certain range (6.5Hz to 12Hz). Those resonance frequencies are below the capabilities of human hearing (20Hz), however in extreme cases, these can be heard on top of other frequencies as a fluttering pitch, fluttering at the resonance frequency. There are simple formulas to calculate the resonance frequency, if you know the compliance and total mass of your tonearm and cartridge. In reality when playing actual music, it mostly impacts the tracking ability of a cartridge - this is what results in a distorted tonal balance, like sibilance or lack of bass. One of the most well known examples are Denon DL-103 cartridges ran on light tonearms, which tend to sound bass lacking due to their low compliance. Most Denon cartridges match better with heavier tonearms. On the other end of the spectrum are Audio Technica cartridges for example; their higher end moving coil ones in particular. Those sound better using medium to low mass tonearms due to their high compliance.
I did the same. Bought a RT82, decided I wanted better sound, so I got the MP-110 and the acrylic platter (making it the 85N), and NOW I have a great sounding turntable.
Excellent video. Early last year, I decided to upgrade my TT. I decided on the cart first, going with a MP-200. I then purchased the RT82 with acrylic platter. I upgraded my TT from a vintage Pioneer PL-50. Super happy with the results.
Narcolepsy?…Zzzzzz….I’m sold! If I ever leave the 1980s, this will be the turntable for me. Great review! Congratulations on following your passion and your new career.
The answer to yesterdays question about which audio manufacturer has hearts in its company logo design is......AKG. A really good company. I've used many of their products and they are great.
This is funny as i bought an RT82 a few years ago, added the poly platter upgrade and changed the cartridge from an OM10 to the Nagaoka MP110, giving me the newly released RT85N before Fluance even offered it! I love it, it's very quiet on "rougher" albums and sounds wonderful to me.
I’m glad that I purchased my Fluance RT 80 based on your recommendation. It was my return to vinyl. Looking forward to upgrading to the costlier models as I become more ensconced with my vinyl. Thanks for the review.
Any updates? What has been changed? How name new vinyl have you purchased? I love hearing these stories so don't let a long response deter you. I hope you're having both a great day and a great return to the best sounding musical experience that there is. Cheers, mate.
As most people are saying, it ends up to what your ear likes and how well it adapts with your setup. In my case, the Nagaoka MP-110 cartridge sounds better than the other ones I have, but again, with my setup. I don't think it's right for a company to sell a different turntable model just because of the cartridge, specially if the Turntable has switchable headshells, but that's just my opinion
Narcolepsy.... 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣 Randy, i need to say that I’m loving your channel. So glad I found it a few weeks ago. As a fellow 2M Blue owner, I agree. I think it’s one of the best options out there without doubling the money.
Quite possibly your best episode ever, such passion! When my vintage Technics SL-Q303 gives up the ghost I will be getting an RT-85N with the Ortofon 2M Blue. Heck I may get a premounted Nagaoka HP-110 to use on the Technics in the meantime. Thank you as always and keep up the great work.
I have the fluance RT81, which is not as good as the 85, but I have three different cartidges, Audio Technica VM95ML, which is on the bright side, the VM530EN, which is on the smooth side and Nagaoka MP-110, which is on the warm side. I have two phono preamp the Zen and Fosi with GE tubes. Since I have bright speakers (Focal Chora 806) and bright amp (Yamaha A-S801), the Fosi and the Nagoaka is the best combo! The best combo to get into the track and dancing! So you go it right!
Thanks ALOT Randy! I now have $4,000 worth of speakers for Dolby Atmos/Music with no word yet on the RZ50 delivery date that I ordered 6 months ago. Plus, I don't even watch movies!!!! "Your casual review technique is working"... I think I need an aspirin. :-(
Randy, I'm late to this party. Albeit, I don't have the Fluance TT (but because of you I have a pair of their Signature Series Bookshelf speakers - outstanding Value at $199 when I got them 2 years ago. But li eyou I did get a Naga MP-110H Cartridge. It is almost Night and Day from the Audio Technica TT LP120XBT-USB's standard AT 95E and an upgraded AT-VM95ML/H cartridge I purchased a few months after acquiring the TT. In fact, I'm comparing all 3 now with some time on my Hands. Playing Nightwatch LP by Kenny Loggins. The Nago wins for sure: more clarity, more Umph, and great separation. Happy New Year 2024!
Based on my prior comment, it has become very apparent to me as a relative layman to Audiophilism, how impactful the Phono Cartridge is to the quality of Vinyl Sound. This was my first head to Head comparison of 3 cartridges. I may the try the Naga with my Dual CS5000 TT (purchased in 1987) which has a Ortofon cartridge.
Why not look at the Rega P1 series for value turn tables? They are consistently reviewed so well. I havnt even felt the need to upgrade the needle (yet).
I recommend buying a spare belt only when you need it. Materials like that do not age well sitting on the shelf. The bamboo finish on the RT85 is a pretty unique look. All of their finishes are superior to everything else in this price range.
I first got into middle to high end audio about 35 years ago. I just ordered my first turntable since the 80's (maybe even the 70s) and my interest in this hobby is being rekindled (now that the kids are out of the house). I've watched many turntable reviews in the last few days and I find it funny (?) that all the same adjectives are used to describe the hobby/sound. I guess I don't have the discerning ear that many in this hobby have; 35 years ago my opinion was lots of these subjective adjectives are used (by salesmen) to get more money out of my wallet (that didn't stop me, but did add to my buyers' regret). Looking forward to my turntable arriving this weekend so I can get my 70's collection of albums out, dust them off and listen to see if the music is at all 'buttery'. PS...I did not buy a Fluance but one of the competitors (cheaper). Time will tell if I made the right decision or is this going to drag me down the 'upgrade' rabbit hole.
I bought the RT85 based on a subtle recommendation from the Audiophiliac. I have been very happy with it. The Fluance line of products seem to be good values at their respective price points. It is nice to learn that Randy (CAM) feels the same way. Thank you for posting ~
Alot depends where you are. In SE Asia, the Audio Technica LP7 costs 50% less than the RT 85. It has everything the RT 85 has plus adjustable VTA on the fly. It looks sexier too if you like the Darth Vader look.
Thanks for the review Randy. 2 years ago I purchased an RT-82 with plans to upgrade to the 30 stylus a year later instead of going to the RT-85. By many accounts the OM 30 is a considerable step up from the 2M Blue. The RT-82 with the 30 stylus ended up being $100 more than the RT-85, plus I didn't receive the acrylic platter, but I think the sonic performance of the latter combination is well worth the difference in cost. Ortofon recommends a completely different cartridge for the equivalent stylus in the 2M range, the Gold, and this cost as much as the entire RT-85.
I've been looking to get back into vinyl for a while after a 30 years hiatus. Looking for a good value upgradable TT, finally narrowed it down to a Rega Planar 1 and the Fluance RT-82. For pure sonic capability I doubt the Rega can be matched for the money but the functionality and aesthetics of the Fluance put the hook in me. I bought the RT-83 because they didn't have the RT-82 available here in the UK. It is a thing of beauty IMO. Now all I need to do is match it up with an amp and speakers. I have a Pro Ject MM Phono stage I'll try it on initially; I'm thinking maybe a Cambridge 25/35 Amp, perhaps a Nad NAD C316BEE V2 and a pair of jamo s 803's or a pair of Wharfdale 12.2's. I'm driving myself nuts with choices already. Love your channel btw.
I'm looking at a second hand deal with a project tube amp and a fluance 85 (2m blue stylus) will be my first turntable. I prefer the buy once cry once mentality. Are you happy with that combination? It will be a big investment for me so I'm just doing my research haha.
@@danielh12345 I've no regrets regards the tt although I think you're wise going for one of the 85 models. I ended up buying a 2m blue stylus and went with a Zen phono stage.
I think part of it may be their decision to omit a built-in phono pre-amp. That means more money can get spent on developing other stuff. That's what actually drew me to Fluance.
Correction: at the 4:07 - 4:15 mark, cam mentions the shape of the TT feet but has them upside down. The "fat Hershey Kiss' shaped feet have the point downwards, contacting the surface the platter is sitting on, not the TT. Either way, the platter is very easy to level and very stable once leveled. The spring in the feet is to help dampen vibrations but I find this of minimal effect. You should still walk carefully around the platter unless the table the platter rests on is rock-solid; perhaps even attached to a wall instead of the floor. Everything on this TT is quality with the single exception of the lift arm assembly, which could be made of better materials. But, it works just fine so no real complaint there.
The 85 was my first turntable, it’s also my only turntable. I can’t say it’s the best because I don’t have anything to compare it to. I first saw a review of the 85 N on vinyl attack and now on your channel. I think the Nagaoka cartridge may be what I’m looking for to maybe calm down the upper mids on my system.either way I will be interested in the change in sound between the blue and the Nagaoka
So the Fluance turntables, and a whole bunch of other ones, are all built in the same factory in Ya Horng, China, built to various price points. Denon, Audio Technica, Yamaha, Elac, Teac, Monolith and several other brand names. Same hinges, dustcover, etc. and lots of common parts like headshells and tonearm assemblies shared by multiple models. Economies of scale keep the prices down, and as far as I can tell, they're all pretty solid/reliable. I have the Monolith and have owned it for 3 years. It's nice, and someday I'll upgrade to something fancier but it's a really solid little table.
Nice! As I've been considering getting into some vinyl, Fluance quickly went to the top of my list of potential options with the RT-85 for a first player.
Don't do it. Vinyl is over. Unless you have a wad of money burning a hole in your pocket vinyl isn't worth it. New records are very expensive and the pressing quality these days are dubious. Used record prices have spiked and with streaming there is almost no point. To get Vinyl to sound good you need a really good and expensive table AND pristine records. Go get a used cd player, a schiit dac and a pile of used cds from goodwill.
@@jimmyayotte5529 Yeah, I keep holding back thinking the whole thing is more trouble than it is worth. Especially with high res Apple Music being just so simple. I don't think I'd do CDs at all. Might as well absolutely stick to Apple Music then. We play music a TON in our house and being able to play such variety so easily via streaming is unbeatable.
@@Techthusiasm OK so one thing I forgot to mention is that the money you spend on vinyl is a better way to support artists than the streaming services especially if you buy through band camp. I mostly stream but make a point to purchase my favorite albums on vinyl or cd even though I don't really need to.
Do the tap test, turn on the amp, place the stylus on a record but don't start the turntable, crank up the volume a bit and tap on the rack! Reveals how good the feet and the plinth are.
Years ago I owned a SOTA turntable. At Audio Shows, the salesman would demonstrate it by removing his shoe and banging it on the plinth while the record played. Now that was the ultimate test for isolation.
I am looking forward to get a fluance rt85 or rt85n. But I have s question about the rt85n with the 2M blue cartridge. In the video you mentioned that if you were blindfolded, you probably couldn't tell the difference between a high resolution file and the sound coming from that cartridge. Does the 2M blue makes a turntable sound NOT like a turntable? If so, I would save me some trouble and keep listening to high resolution digital files. I want a turntable that sounds analog would you say that the rt85n will give me more if that?
Great review,to be honest I think upgrading is part of the fun and hearing the difference’s in sound as you upgrade,like you said if you have not got the money straight off then go for the rt82 which is what I’m going to do and can’t wait !!😊
Check out the Fluance preamp as well! I’ve had to mix different preamps depending on the carts to get them all to play well together. But since getting the Fluance preamp, not at all. It gets along with everything.
I have not heard the Ortofon 2M cartridges, but have heard plenty of Nagaoka, and the main difference I get compared to similarly priced Audio Technica is a different experience in terms of space and speed of transients. The Nagaoka really does present a beautiful soundstage, with precision in all directions and properly defined distance between musicians. With the ATs I get more resolution and detail, less inner grove distortion and sibilance, but it's not as vivid spatially and doesn't play the music with the same ease and relaxed transients. To get all these flavors it makes complete sense to have a turntable like the Fluance to be able to switch cartridges. Just don't forget to dial in VTF and anti-skating before playing records. :)
Randy, I have a Pro-Ject X1 through a Marantz PM6007 and the Fosi with the Riverstone tubes bested several phono amps costing 3-5x as much!! Thanks for the recommendation 🙏👍
Hi great interesting video I’ve just completed a bit of research regarding bang for buck. You see in the UK between £700-800 we get the Rega P3, that smokes the Fluance . But I’ve found in the USA the Rega is around $1300 so now I can get what you say at this price. As at that price the Rega just wouldn’t be so worth it. As you can tell Rega fan boy I have the P3 and since getting it I’ve stopped buying digital and only vinyl LP’s . Although I do confess interested in Wiim pro to dip my toe into streaming seems worth it although as yet not available in the UK ! Keep up the good work for value for money hifi.
I tried a RT 81 the AT__. It was just fine, but I saw I could get the 2M Red with an acrylic platter from U-Turn. It makes me very happy for about the same money as the Fluance I had. I can't knock them for anything. I just picked up a better deal. I love these videos, except Randy makes me think about upgrades...
"yes, I'm gonna talk about hinges..." ..mmm hinges. It's the details that count. Affordable cartridge comparisons are also most excellent and thin on the inter-ground, thanks.
Hello Randy, awesome review. Last year I bought the RT-82 and I love it! I'm planning on upgrading the platter and cartridge later this year to basically turn it into an 85. I was wondering what speakers would pair best with the Fluance RT-85 and 85N models? If this matters I'm running it through a Yamaha CR-620. Thank you, Brian
Hinges. Yep, I am with you on that one Randy. The so-called hinges on the too expensive for what they are REGA turntables are junk. They will snap eventually. Pro-Ject ones look good too. But for $500 you get an acrylic platter with the Fluance RT-85, but the Pro-Ject? Nope. You have to pay extra for the acrylic platter.
7:35 standard Dual tonearm adjustment. Do the rubber feet deteriorate in time? Will a spare belt deteriorate in time. "Upgrade-itis" -- I hear ya! Does it come with Ortofon blue as standard now?
What about just upgrading a rt-80 with a good cart? Personally I’m looking just to listen through headphones. I don’t have room for much else, and my wife doesn’t like most of the music I want on vinyl. And I like the idea of a built in pre amp.
Well, i love Fluance turntables but for one caveat...They don't have a direct drive...I'm not going to put that as a negative, it's just that ever since I bought my Pioneer PL-540 back in the day, I am in love with it. I also have a Dual DD as well, and I also have 2 belt drives as well...A Technics and a Pioneer. About a year ago, I bought the 110 and I was blown away. Not by how good it was, but how good it was for the price!!! I am waiting for Fluance to come out with a DD, but they told me that it depends on the market... By the way, I think Fluance dropped the 80...
I’m about to pull the trigger on buying the RT85 or RT85N. I like the idea of a buttery smooth sound; however, I am 65 years old and have some hearing loss between 4kHz and 8kHz. Does it seem reasonable, therefore, to lean toward the brighter sound of the 2M Blue instead of the Nagaoka?
@@scottroberts4551 - As compelling as the RT-85 was, I ended up buying a 40-year-old, fully recapped and restored Denon DP-57L. Wow & Flutter 0.008, SNR >82dB. It has the S-curved tonearm and a Goldring E3. I am in love with it!!
Being as both I and the Fluance line are Canadian I thought - okay, is the 85 any good as in, what are the reviewers saying? Then I noticed that they had a second release of the 85 with the Nagaoka Mp110 and my previous research indicated that the Mp110 was absolutely my cartridge of choice so .... Canadian or not- there is hardly any negatives that would preclude me from purchasing this turntable. Sure, I heard that the piano gloss black finish is't perfect but its the only criticism and ... I just do not care. That acrylic platter is gorgeous and from what some reviewers are saying.. this RT85N teamed up with a Schiit Mani is a real winner. Thank you Randy❗ and Fluance. (fantastic price by the way)
I’ve owned or own the RT 80, 81, 83 and 85 and have loved them all. Great looking and terrific sounding tables at a competitive price. You can’t beat them in my estimation.
Yeah, well, my pop had a turntable. And some sort of hi-fi system ~ that I have no idea of the brand name. He also had a reel to reel. And some sort of like that early fender amp burlap stuff laminated . . . . . . or like varnished. The turntable was delicate. I have no idea what it was. The needle had to be replaced at some point I have no idea how it got broken. There was a cuckoo clock on the wall above and next to the TV and it was like Looney Tunes and Tom & Jerry and Sesame Street and Gilliagans Island . . . and the Herculoids all the time . .
The Nagaoka MP110 is about the best value cartridge you can get. You would have to spend a lot more $$ to get anything better. Mine sounds great on my Project Turntable, going into a NAD PP 2e Phono PreAmp & then into a NAD T758 V3i receiver. It was a huge upgrade over the Ortofon cartridge that can std on the turntable.
I got the newer Nagaoka JT80LB recently. Can't compare it to the MP110, but definitely feel that the value is there. Such an enormous step up from the AT95 my Music Hall came with.
i bought the project debut carbon dc a few years back but kind of regret it over getting the fluance. I didn't realize how much I wanted auto lift and speed switching, and now I'm in a weird upgrade spot where I'm not sure if I should side grade to a fluance 85 or save up money for a more expensive and better semi auto option.
Been thinking about the Nagoaka for a while now. I have two tables, both vintage. One a Ratshack clone of a Technics, the other a DUAL Direct Drive. Both have the orignal Shure carts, which are quite good! But, I'd really like to hear what the Nagoaka brings to the table, pun intended? Plus, the Shures have been discontinued so getting parts, in the future, might not be easy and will get pricier and pricier.
Not a comment, but a question…what is it about the Ortofon cartridges that makes them so much better than the Audio Technica cartridges? I have never heard a side by side comparison.
Pioneer PL-300: Type: direct drive Tonearm: static-balanced type, s-shaped pipe arm Cartridge weight range: 4-9g Motor: quartz PLL stable hanging rotor hall motor Wow and flutter: 0.025% Rumble: 75dB Price: Currently selling at $40-$80, used. (Price of unit may vary with condition and seller's greediness) Find one... get it serviced and fitted with a decent cartridge first... and enjoy something that was was sold/built new "cheaply" in the heyday of vinyl (+40 years ago) that out-performs at a level untouchable by the latest "affordable" stuff, for far less total outlay. =;)
-- the tonearm balance routine you outline is nothing new - its been done this way on many nicer tables for over 40 years. I still use a stylus pressure guage to verify accuracy, its surprising how far some tables are off in accuracy - saves a lot of time and guesswork.
Hey Randy hi. I get the fluance RT85 with the blue ortofon, and sounds great !. I already have the AT-LP120XBT with the very popular and cheap AT-VM95E, and after try them both for long periods of time I realize that both are great, both are very good turntables, a friend was in my studio and he was interested in one of my turnatbles. ( I buy and sell everything, ) and in my mind I wanted to sell him the Fluance, and it was because I think the AT sounds as good ( both trough the FOSI tube phono preamp ) as the Fluance, but for much less money ( I got it for 250 last year ) and have a lot of things that I dont use, as the usb, or BT, or the internal phonopreamp, but for a lot of people all that stuff can be very useful. The AT is well build also. Ok , The Fluance is a lot way pretty than the AT. The AT looks like a cheap beach party DJ playing electronic music, and the Fluance are elegant and very beautiful. Maybe you can try that cheap turntable with the VM95E and review it to see what you think. because I hear a differences, but in the end I think I enjoy more the sound of the AT. Maybe is because the all set. The phono preamp was the same, then the LOKI ( I love the LOKI ) then Amp and Speakers . Could be. I finally sell the Fluance to him (very good price for being here in Colombia ) and maybe i'll get another thing to hear and compare!!, Thanks, Great channel!
i did worse than you. I have an older Rega RO# with an upgraded aluminum subplatter and a an acrylic platter. I installed a 110 on it and am very happy with the sound but is cost a lot more so i agree going with the 85N makes a lot of sense.
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Pioneer PL-300:
Type: direct drive
Tonearm: static-balanced type, s-shaped pipe arm
Cartridge weight range: 4-9g
Motor: quartz PLL stable hanging rotor hall motor
Wow and flutter: 0.025%
Rumble: 75dB
Price: Currently selling at $40-$80, used. (Price of unit may vary with condition and seller's greediness)
Find one... get it serviced and fitted with a decent cartridge first... and enjoy something that was was sold/built new "cheaply" in the heyday of vinyl (+40 years ago) that out-performs at a level untouchable by the latest "affordable" stuff, for far less total outlay. =;)
Great video! I started with the RT83 myself, I’ve had it for almost 2 years now. Like others, I slowly upgraded mine. It currently has the acrylic platter and I have a nagaoka mp-110 waiting to be installed.
I am curious about future cartridge options though. It seems that the lack of VTA adjustability really narrows the selection. Aside from that, the fluance line is a great value.
Great review! I purchased the RT85N as my first serious turntable.
I know this was posted about 2 years ago. But it is still a very good value for the money.
And have yet to see any others that match it in value.
Keep up the good work!
I have had at least 6 turn tables in my 84 years and when I bought the RT-85 with the 2M blue I was blown away...it cost me more than you paid as the price is in USD and I am in Canada...the closest cartridge I could compare with Shure V15II which I still own...good show btw
Randy, you provide the best entertainment value by far on TH-cam for audio/vinyl enthusiasts. Plus some solid audio info to boot. Thanks for being on my wavelength, man.
I'm quite new to this stuff so How do you do that?
Hi Randy. Sorry if this was already mentioned, but I didn't want to look through over 200 comments by others. I found on Fluance's web site in their resources section that in addition to the cartridge change, the other difference between the RT85 and RT85N is that they adjusted the tonearm on the RT85N to account for the configuration of the Nagaoka MP-110. Here is what they say:
"The tonearm is lower on the RT85N to accommodate for the height of the Nagaoka Cartridge and VTA which differ greatly from the 2M cartridges. While the MP-110 can be used on the standard RT85 the vertical tracking angle may not be optimal."
I was wondering if you notice a less than optimal performance of the MP-110 on your upgraded RT83.
It's also worth noting that ortofon also makes the '2mr' series which is lower profile than the regular 2m series at the same price to fit turntables like the Rega planar or other turntables that have a lower tone arm
I was asked by a friend to recommend a good turntable that would last, and not crazy expensive, in other words, a solid piece and good value. Based on 2M Blue, build quality, headshell and semiautomatic operation, the RT85 was easy to recommend and he's thrilled with it. The difference between cost and value is huge.
Hi Randy...good review! They seem like nice turntables and they would be at the top of my list if I was in the market. One thing you probably should mention is that when changing the head shell and cartridge, the whole tonearm assembly needs to be re-balanced due to different cartridge weights. After re-balancing the tracking force and anti-skating adjustments also need to be re-set too. Keep on trucking!
I'm quite new to this stuff so How do you do that?
@@kinyuapeter278 there are tutorials if you search rt85 unboxing/setup
@@kinyuapeter278 theres also intructions in the box, its not hard
Have been using the MP-500 for 8 years now as my prime cartridge and just love it. Just got the MP-200 for office turntable. Soooo good to finally see a Nagaoka appearance after all this Ortofon overload.
THE MP- 500 is GREAT !!!!!🥰 LOVE .
It's made me want to get more Naga carts
@@cheapaudioman Go for it. I do have the MP-110 as a spare, so I know that one too. The step up towards the 200 is most significant, 200 to 500 is fairly marginal. The MP-200 is also more forgiving with less perfect records (e.g. worn grooves). It's probably the boron cantilever that plays the prime role. Glad to have them all, but knowing all that now, I'd be fully satisfied with the MP-200 alone.
Great review on the Fluance Reference line, Randy. I recently purchased an RT85 and upgraded the cartridge to an Audio-Technica VM540ML. Highly recommended - especially if you like the fuller, more balanced sound of the Nagaoka MP-110 over the Ortofon Blue - you’ll be impressed. After trying a handful of different cartridges over the past few years, I’m convinced that Audio-Technica is among the most ‘transparent’ of them all. It seems to bring out a rich, detailed sound that’s truer to the nature of the vinyl, plus whatever the sound signature of your specific turntable is. This as opposed to a cartridge like the Ortofon 2M Blue that often tends to overpower the music with it’s own characteristics. Appreciate your channel - cheers!
Did you just change the headshell and balanced it or did you have to adjust some other stuff?
Appreciate your straightforward, honest assessments, keeping it simple, and throwing in some good humor - it's fun to learn from you. Your laid back demeanor while explaining things in just the right amount of detail is really helpful for those of us who have other things to worry about in addition to our audio equipment, so want the straight scoop presented efficiently, which really helps in making the right decisions. Just the right amount of enthusiasm included where you think it is warranted, and it is legit and so rubs off. RT-85 for me with maybe the Fosi pre-amp (love the tube look) to get myself back into the vinyl game for the first time since saying good-bye in the late 80's/early 90's. Thanks!
I'm the kind of person who, 99% of the time, makes the wrong decision, but buying the RT85 has proved SO right! I also like to swap my system around a lot, but since getting the RT85 around six months ago, I haven't felt the need to swap to any of my other three turntables at all. Proper value for money and great sound, too! Marvellous!
I’m running an 85 with an AT-540ML. Sounds amazing!
I purchased the RT85 with 2M Blue and matched it with the ifi Zen Phono amp, and It is everything you talked about in this video.
The build quality of the turntable exceeds the price being asked. I got the bamboo finish, and think it's very beautiful!
I purchased the turntable just when Fluance introduced the Nagaoka cartridge choice. I really wanted the bamboo finish, and it wasn't available
at that time with the RT85N, so I went with the 2M Blue.
So far, I love the sound. I have it connected to a tube amp, and I think the tubes help the 2M Blue to not sound too bright.
At least , to my ears.
Gotta say, I am one happy puppy!
.
I love the blue and the mp 110
I agree with you 100%. I bought the RT85 with the Ortofon 2m blue a few months ago. Very happy with it. I considered Rega and Pro-ject but felt like the Fluance was the best deal with a great cartridge included. I also have experience with the Nagaoka mp110 cartridge and as you say it is a little fuller sounding but a little less detail than the Ortofon. The Ortofon works well for me and my ear.
My next table, nice built
I'm very pleased to hear Randy pronounce Nagaoka elegantly and accurately. It seems like a bunch of people can't seem to say Nagaoka without hurting themselves.
I helped set up an RT82 a few days ago and I really liked it. I remember isolation being a really big deal for turntables before CDs came out. The RT82, and I assume everything above it in their line, had really excellent isolation from vibration in the surface that it sits on.
Pretty good. A little too hard on the "g" and a little bit "clippy" between the syllables. And, the first syllable "na" is too long while the last is too short (naa-ga-oka). It's an audio channel, so how things sound is important, right? LOL. But, yes, importantly he got all of the "a" sounds right, which is where most Americans chomp the bit with Japanese pronunciation.
@@grechan WOW! 😳
I'm considering a Fluance RT85 and the more I hear about the Nagaoka MP-110, the more I think the Ortofon Blue would be more to my liking. I prefer a bit of brightness and so many descriptions of the Nagaoka make me think it'll be too warm for me. If it turns out that the Ortofon Blue is too bright for me, I can always mount an Audio Technica VM95-ML on the headshell. That's the cartridge I'm using now and I love it. I'd almost be surprised if the Ortofon Blue sounded any better to me since the AT95-ML is hitting my sweet spot, at least with my current equipment.
the blue sounds better than the MP-110, it's also $100 more than the nag in the retail box... I don't know why anyone would choose the RT-85N at the same price.
The Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Evo got my money last year. I really like it, but wish it had removable headshells , and acrylic platter. I Considered the RT85, but the limited availability had me go elsewhere. For the $500 price range most of the reviews at the time had the Pro-Ject rated at the top. I think it's really hard to say which is "best", since the features are slightly different and sound quality is very close to the same.
I have the MP 110 on my Dual 1219 via a Schitt Mani into a Yamaha CA-1000 going to JBL L88 Plus. Old school vintage sound! Really enjoyed this review!
I bought the Fluance RT84 with the Ortofon 2m Red Cartridge and upgraded to the Acrylic Platter and i couldn't be happier! Best value for your money.
Thanks Randy, I appreciate you explaining the difference between the Nagaoka and the 2M Blue. I tried to go cheaper on a turntable and wasn't happy, I should have just gone up to this in the first place. Live, learn and listen. Thank you.
Tony I'm guilty of that too.
Same place I am
Just learned this the hard way too.
Based on income constraints went with RT83 , I’m happy so far and I’ll have to save the $ for the Nagaoka…
I'm glad you shared your impressions of the 2M Blue vs. the Nagaoka. That pretty much agrees with many other reviewers. The only thing that I found 'Grating' in your video, is please, Please, *PLEASE* don't state it like 'The TT was so good even compared to a high end DAC with high res files, it was that good!' UH... *NO!* Digital is digital, please sir, it is *NOT* the ultimate standard by which you measure analog. No, No, No...! But, otherwise... Thanks! 😁
I miss my Technics Sl1210 Mk2... Upgraded it with a Nagaoka MP-200 cartridge, and yes, i mounted the 1210 on some good isolation feet... Man! It sounded ace!!! Due to personal circumstances, it had to go some years back... It's one piece of equipment I WISH I'd kept..... 😕...
I started with Nagaoka MP 100…I thought if this sounds great I wonder what the MP150, then 200 sounds like? MP500!!! They sound amazing!!! Also, it pairs excellent with a Schitt Mani…the 150 is the sweet spot.
Fluance to this day has yet to sell me something I have disliked. I started with the white rt82. Loved it. It was my first real table. My wife loved it cause it was white and matched all of our farm house crap lol. I got their preamp. Sounds great.
Now over time I've upgraded the table. First the acrylic platter, which made things so much better. If for the dust problem alone. I'm in a desert. One wipe of the platter, no more dusty side 2.
Then I swapped the cartridge to the 2m red, I think I'll get the blue one day, but right now I'm so happy with the sound, I might not touch it. I drop the needle sometimes, close my eyes and just get transported to another world!
If I could do it all over again I probably would have started with the rt85, but it's been fun to listen, tinker, and just enjoy music. Best part of it all I'm turning one of my kids into a vinyl head, so now I have a listening buddy! Life is good. Thanks Fluance
😂 matches the farmhouse crap made me laugh, but yeah fluance really made something very nice and affordable
Best bang for buck seems to be, if you want both high end cartridges mentioned, is to get the normal RT-85 and then the Nagaoka separately. Fluance should do a “Connoisseur Pack” where they include both, in head shells. I’d totally spring for that.
or add an even better cartridge and add a rt86
Thanks!
Mine arrived tonight! Great video. Sounds like I got the correct turntable. Love this channel!!!!
5:24 If you want to keep a spare belt in top condition, store it in a zipbag with some talc powder. That way the rubber doesn't become brittle/deteriorates as quickly.
8:20 A heavier tonearm doesn't necessarily imply a "sonic penalty"... it's just that a heavier tonearm works better with lower compliance cartridges, while a lighter tonearm works better with higher compliance cartridges - it's all about synergy! 👍
thanks for the tips
Hi Qorax. What’s a higher or lower compliance cartridges. Is it on the specs? Thks
@@garysiu5498 Yes it's usually specified, you should look at "dynamic compliance" in particular.
Static compliance is also often given, but doesn't say much about the resonance in real life conditions.
Compliance is basically the stiffness of the cartridge suspension/cantilever, with lower compliance meaning a higher stiffness and higher compliance meaning a more flexible suspension.
The higher the compliance, the lower the tonearm weight/mass needs to be.
The combination of tonearm mass and compliance results in a tonearm resonance frequency.
These resonance frequencies will always be present within a tonearm, but to keep their effects to a minimum, they need to be within a certain range (6.5Hz to 12Hz).
Those resonance frequencies are below the capabilities of human hearing (20Hz), however in extreme cases, these can be heard on top of other frequencies as a fluttering pitch, fluttering at the resonance frequency.
There are simple formulas to calculate the resonance frequency, if you know the compliance and total mass of your tonearm and cartridge.
In reality when playing actual music, it mostly impacts the tracking ability of a cartridge - this is what results in a distorted tonal balance, like sibilance or lack of bass.
One of the most well known examples are Denon DL-103 cartridges ran on light tonearms, which tend to sound bass lacking due to their low compliance.
Most Denon cartridges match better with heavier tonearms.
On the other end of the spectrum are Audio Technica cartridges for example; their higher end moving coil ones in particular.
Those sound better using medium to low mass tonearms due to their high compliance.
@@QoraxAudio thks for so much information. I sure subscribe your channel 👍😄
@@garysiu5498 Nice! Thanks 👍
I did the same. Bought a RT82, decided I wanted better sound, so I got the MP-110 and the acrylic platter (making it the 85N), and NOW I have a great sounding turntable.
Best deal I've got I bought a Pro-Ject essential III for $75 open box on Amazon was sent back for one of the tone arm wires comming loose easy fix👍
Wow. What a great value
Excellent video. Early last year, I decided to upgrade my TT. I decided on the cart first, going with a MP-200. I then purchased the RT82 with acrylic platter. I upgraded my TT from a vintage Pioneer PL-50. Super happy with the results.
I owned an RT85 for quite some time and loved it. It's got some drawbacks, but overall it can't be beat for the money.
Narcolepsy?…Zzzzzz….I’m sold!
If I ever leave the 1980s, this will be the turntable for me. Great review! Congratulations on following your passion and your new career.
I went with the 2m black purely out of balance of economy Rega Rp6. Love this review.
The answer to yesterdays question about which audio manufacturer has hearts in its company logo design is......AKG. A really good company. I've used many of their products and they are great.
This is funny as i bought an RT82 a few years ago, added the poly platter upgrade and changed the cartridge from an OM10 to the Nagaoka MP110, giving me the newly released RT85N before Fluance even offered it! I love it, it's very quiet on "rougher" albums and sounds wonderful to me.
Very cool!
Man. This tied so much together for me. Thanks so much
I’m glad that I purchased my Fluance RT 80 based on your recommendation. It was my return to vinyl. Looking forward to upgrading to the costlier models as I become more ensconced with my vinyl. Thanks for the review.
Any updates? What has been changed? How name new vinyl have you purchased? I love hearing these stories so don't let a long response deter you. I hope you're having both a great day and a great return to the best sounding musical experience that there is. Cheers, mate.
As most people are saying, it ends up to what your ear likes and how well it adapts with your setup. In my case, the Nagaoka MP-110 cartridge sounds better than the other ones I have, but again, with my setup. I don't think it's right for a company to sell a different turntable model just because of the cartridge, specially if the Turntable has switchable headshells, but that's just my opinion
Narcolepsy.... 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
Randy, i need to say that I’m loving your channel. So glad I found it a few weeks ago.
As a fellow 2M Blue owner, I agree. I think it’s one of the best options out there without doubling the money.
Quite possibly your best episode ever, such passion! When my vintage Technics SL-Q303 gives up the ghost I will be getting an RT-85N with the Ortofon 2M Blue. Heck I may get a premounted Nagaoka HP-110 to use on the Technics in the meantime. Thank you as always and keep up the great work.
I have the fluance RT81, which is not as good as the 85, but I have three different cartidges, Audio Technica VM95ML, which is on the bright side, the VM530EN, which is on the smooth side and Nagaoka MP-110, which is on the warm side. I have two phono preamp the Zen and Fosi with GE tubes. Since I have bright speakers (Focal Chora 806) and bright amp (Yamaha A-S801), the Fosi and the Nagoaka is the best combo! The best combo to get into the track and dancing! So you go it right!
light, texture, temperature. never understood how audiophiles just be throwing around descriptions that arent even relative
Thanks ALOT Randy! I now have $4,000 worth of speakers for Dolby Atmos/Music with no word yet on the RZ50 delivery date that I ordered 6 months ago. Plus, I don't even watch movies!!!! "Your casual review technique is working"... I think I need an aspirin. :-(
I’m sorry, my man.
Randy, I'm late to this party. Albeit, I don't have the Fluance TT (but because of you I have a pair of their Signature Series Bookshelf speakers - outstanding Value at $199 when I got them 2 years ago. But li eyou I did get a Naga MP-110H Cartridge. It is almost Night and Day from the Audio Technica TT LP120XBT-USB's standard AT 95E and an upgraded AT-VM95ML/H cartridge I purchased a few months after acquiring the TT. In fact, I'm comparing all 3 now with some time on my Hands. Playing Nightwatch LP by Kenny Loggins. The Nago wins for sure: more clarity, more Umph, and great separation. Happy New Year 2024!
Based on my prior comment, it has become very apparent to me as a relative layman to Audiophilism, how impactful the Phono Cartridge is to the quality of Vinyl Sound. This was my first head to Head comparison of 3 cartridges. I may the try the Naga with my Dual CS5000 TT (purchased in 1987) which has a Ortofon cartridge.
Why not look at the Rega P1 series for value turn tables? They are consistently reviewed so well. I havnt even felt the need to upgrade the needle (yet).
I recommend buying a spare belt only when you need it. Materials like that do not age well sitting on the shelf. The bamboo finish on the RT85 is a pretty unique look. All of their finishes are superior to everything else in this price range.
I first got into middle to high end audio about 35 years ago. I just ordered my first turntable since the 80's (maybe even the 70s) and my interest in this hobby is being rekindled (now that the kids are out of the house). I've watched many turntable reviews in the last few days and I find it funny (?) that all the same adjectives are used to describe the hobby/sound. I guess I don't have the discerning ear that many in this hobby have; 35 years ago my opinion was lots of these subjective adjectives are used (by salesmen) to get more money out of my wallet (that didn't stop me, but did add to my buyers' regret). Looking forward to my turntable arriving this weekend so I can get my 70's collection of albums out, dust them off and listen to see if the music is at all 'buttery'. PS...I did not buy a Fluance but one of the competitors (cheaper). Time will tell if I made the right decision or is this going to drag me down the 'upgrade' rabbit hole.
I bought the RT85 based on a subtle recommendation from the Audiophiliac. I have been very happy with it. The Fluance line of products seem to be good values at their respective price points. It is nice to learn that Randy (CAM) feels the same way. Thank you for posting ~
Thanks for sharing!
Just discovered your channel today. Nice channel. Enjoying it.
Alot depends where you are.
In SE Asia, the Audio Technica LP7 costs 50% less than the RT 85. It has everything the RT 85 has plus adjustable VTA on the fly. It looks sexier too if you like the Darth Vader look.
Thanks for the review Randy. 2 years ago I purchased an RT-82 with plans to upgrade to the 30 stylus a year later instead of going to the RT-85. By many accounts the OM 30 is a considerable step up from the 2M Blue. The RT-82 with the 30 stylus ended up being $100 more than the RT-85, plus I didn't receive the acrylic platter, but I think the sonic performance of the latter combination is well worth the difference in cost. Ortofon recommends a completely different cartridge for the equivalent stylus in the 2M range, the Gold, and this cost as much as the entire RT-85.
I've been looking to get back into vinyl for a while after a 30 years hiatus. Looking for a good value upgradable TT, finally narrowed it down to a Rega Planar 1 and the Fluance RT-82. For pure sonic capability I doubt the Rega can be matched for the money but the functionality and aesthetics of the Fluance put the hook in me. I bought the RT-83 because they didn't have the RT-82 available here in the UK. It is a thing of beauty IMO. Now all I need to do is match it up with an amp and speakers. I have a Pro Ject MM Phono stage I'll try it on initially; I'm thinking maybe a Cambridge 25/35 Amp, perhaps a Nad NAD C316BEE V2 and a pair of jamo s 803's or a pair of Wharfdale 12.2's. I'm driving myself nuts with choices already.
Love your channel btw.
Rega Planar 1 although well built, is over rated and over priced. Fluance is a lot better value.
@@peterlarkin762 I'm not sure I'm brave enough to call the Rega over-rated tbh. I think they are aimed at two slightly different markets.
I'm looking at a second hand deal with a project tube amp and a fluance 85 (2m blue stylus) will be my first turntable. I prefer the buy once cry once mentality. Are you happy with that combination? It will be a big investment for me so I'm just doing my research haha.
@@danielh12345 I've no regrets regards the tt although I think you're wise going for one of the 85 models. I ended up buying a 2m blue stylus and went with a Zen phono stage.
@@LA_Coaster thank you!
I think part of it may be their decision to omit a built-in phono pre-amp. That means more money can get spent on developing other stuff. That's what actually drew me to Fluance.
That was my thinking and I feel l got my money's worth and then some.
Great review. Would like to see you review some more
Fluance speakers
Correction: at the 4:07 - 4:15 mark, cam mentions the shape of the TT feet but has them upside down. The "fat Hershey Kiss' shaped feet have the point downwards, contacting the surface the platter is sitting on, not the TT. Either way, the platter is very easy to level and very stable once leveled. The spring in the feet is to help dampen vibrations but I find this of minimal effect. You should still walk carefully around the platter unless the table the platter rests on is rock-solid; perhaps even attached to a wall instead of the floor. Everything on this TT is quality with the single exception of the lift arm assembly, which could be made of better materials. But, it works just fine so no real complaint there.
Nagaoka is a great cart I have it as a spare on my PL518.
The 85 was my first turntable, it’s also my only turntable. I can’t say it’s the best because I don’t have anything to compare it to. I first saw a review of the 85 N on vinyl attack and now on your channel. I think the Nagaoka cartridge may be what I’m looking for to maybe calm down the upper mids on my system.either way I will be interested in the change in sound between the blue and the Nagaoka
I like that cart
Get another headshell, and have both.
Boom! I have been researching and researching.. 85n it is, thanks for all the info
So the Fluance turntables, and a whole bunch of other ones, are all built in the same factory in Ya Horng, China, built to various price points. Denon, Audio Technica, Yamaha, Elac, Teac, Monolith and several other brand names. Same hinges, dustcover, etc. and lots of common parts like headshells and tonearm assemblies shared by multiple models. Economies of scale keep the prices down, and as far as I can tell, they're all pretty solid/reliable. I have the Monolith and have owned it for 3 years. It's nice, and someday I'll upgrade to something fancier but it's a really solid little table.
According to Fluance on their website, their turntables are built in Taiwan.
@@rogerfalk5079 the factory may be in Taiwan rather than China, I may have mis-spoken
Nice! As I've been considering getting into some vinyl, Fluance quickly went to the top of my list of potential options with the RT-85 for a first player.
Don't do it. Vinyl is over. Unless you have a wad of money burning a hole in your pocket vinyl isn't worth it. New records are very expensive and the pressing quality these days are dubious. Used record prices have spiked and with streaming there is almost no point. To get Vinyl to sound good you need a really good and expensive table AND pristine records. Go get a used cd player, a schiit dac and a pile of used cds from goodwill.
@@jimmyayotte5529 Yeah, I keep holding back thinking the whole thing is more trouble than it is worth. Especially with high res Apple Music being just so simple. I don't think I'd do CDs at all. Might as well absolutely stick to Apple Music then. We play music a TON in our house and being able to play such variety so easily via streaming is unbeatable.
@@Techthusiasm OK so one thing I forgot to mention is that the money you spend on vinyl is a better way to support artists than the streaming services especially if you buy through band camp. I mostly stream but make a point to purchase my favorite albums on vinyl or cd even though I don't really need to.
Do the tap test, turn on the amp, place the stylus on a record but don't start the turntable, crank up the volume a bit and tap on the rack!
Reveals how good the feet and the plinth are.
Years ago I owned a SOTA turntable. At Audio Shows, the salesman would demonstrate it by removing his shoe and banging it on the plinth while the record played. Now that was the ultimate test for isolation.
i like to play the record backwards and piss on it to show off how good it is
I am looking forward to get a fluance rt85 or rt85n. But I have s question about the rt85n with the 2M blue cartridge. In the video you mentioned that if you were blindfolded, you probably couldn't tell the difference between a high resolution file and the sound coming from that cartridge. Does the 2M blue makes a turntable sound NOT like a turntable? If so, I would save me some trouble and keep listening to high resolution digital files. I want a turntable that sounds analog would you say that the rt85n will give me more if that?
The cost of the cartridge ($230) and platter ($120) as separates, you get the turntable for $150. Worth it. High grade gear.
Great review,to be honest I think upgrading is part of the fun and hearing the difference’s in sound as you upgrade,like you said if you have not got the money straight off then go for the rt82 which is what I’m going to do and can’t wait !!😊
9:41 Can I suggest one more step? Readjust the tonearm balance. Your two cartridges probably won't be the same weight. Thanks for the review.
Great point. Ironically, they actually are though
Check out the Fluance preamp as well! I’ve had to mix different preamps depending on the carts to get them all to play well together. But since getting the Fluance preamp, not at all. It gets along with everything.
I do need to check them out. I've never heard one before
“…probably what you’re doing right now…”
Touche 🎯
I have not heard the Ortofon 2M cartridges, but have heard plenty of Nagaoka, and the main difference I get compared to similarly priced Audio Technica is a different experience in terms of space and speed of transients. The Nagaoka really does present a beautiful soundstage, with precision in all directions and properly defined distance between musicians. With the ATs I get more resolution and detail, less inner grove distortion and sibilance, but it's not as vivid spatially and doesn't play the music with the same ease and relaxed transients. To get all these flavors it makes complete sense to have a turntable like the Fluance to be able to switch cartridges. Just don't forget to dial in VTF and anti-skating before playing records. :)
Randy, I have a Pro-Ject X1 through a Marantz PM6007 and the Fosi with the Riverstone tubes bested several phono amps costing 3-5x as much!! Thanks for the recommendation 🙏👍
Hi great interesting video
I’ve just completed a bit of research regarding bang for buck.
You see in the UK between £700-800 we get the Rega P3, that smokes the Fluance .
But I’ve found in the USA the Rega is around $1300 so now I can get what you say at this price. As at that price the Rega just wouldn’t be so worth it.
As you can tell Rega fan boy I have the P3 and since getting it I’ve stopped buying digital and only vinyl LP’s .
Although I do confess interested in Wiim pro to dip my toe into streaming seems worth it although as yet not available in the UK !
Keep up the good work for value for money hifi.
I tried a RT 81 the AT__. It was just fine, but I saw I could get the 2M Red with an acrylic platter from U-Turn. It makes me very happy for about the same money as the Fluance I had. I can't knock them for anything. I just picked up a better deal. I love these videos, except Randy makes me think about upgrades...
"yes, I'm gonna talk about hinges..." ..mmm hinges. It's the details that count.
Affordable cartridge comparisons are also most excellent and thin on the inter-ground, thanks.
Hello Randy, awesome review. Last year I bought the RT-82 and I love it! I'm planning on upgrading the platter and cartridge later this year to basically turn it into an 85. I was wondering what speakers would pair best with the Fluance RT-85 and 85N models? If this matters I'm running it through a Yamaha CR-620.
Thank you,
Brian
Hinges. Yep, I am with you on that one Randy. The so-called hinges on the too expensive for what they are REGA turntables are junk. They will snap eventually. Pro-Ject ones look good too. But for $500 you get an acrylic platter with the Fluance RT-85, but the Pro-Ject? Nope. You have to pay extra for the acrylic platter.
I have the Pro-ject T1 Phono SB and really like it.
7:35 standard Dual tonearm adjustment. Do the rubber feet deteriorate in time? Will a spare belt deteriorate in time. "Upgrade-itis" -- I hear ya! Does it come with Ortofon blue as standard now?
What about just upgrading a rt-80 with a good cart? Personally I’m looking just to listen through headphones. I don’t have room for much else, and my wife doesn’t like most of the music I want on vinyl. And I like the idea of a built in pre amp.
Off the top of your head xls encore, fluance, cartridge, phono, amp. What would you choose from them that harmonize as a whole?
Question for anyone really! Love you guys
Well, i love Fluance turntables but for one caveat...They don't have a direct drive...I'm not going to put that as a negative, it's just that ever since I bought my Pioneer PL-540 back in the day, I am in love with it. I also have a Dual DD as well, and I also have 2 belt drives as well...A Technics and a Pioneer. About a year ago, I bought the 110 and I was blown away. Not by how good it was, but how good it was for the price!!! I am waiting for Fluance to come out with a DD, but they told me that it depends on the market...
By the way, I think Fluance dropped the 80...
I’m about to pull the trigger on buying the RT85 or RT85N. I like the idea of a buttery smooth sound; however, I am 65 years old and have some hearing loss between 4kHz and 8kHz. Does it seem reasonable, therefore, to lean toward the brighter sound of the 2M Blue instead of the Nagaoka?
I've got the same question
@@scottroberts4551 - As compelling as the RT-85 was, I ended up buying a 40-year-old, fully recapped and restored Denon DP-57L. Wow & Flutter 0.008, SNR >82dB. It has the S-curved tonearm and a Goldring E3. I am in love with it!!
What would you recommend for Linda Ronstadt and Bonnie Raitt?
The Nagaoka MP line of cartridges is excellent!
Being as both I and the Fluance line are Canadian I thought - okay,
is the 85 any good as in, what are the reviewers saying? Then I noticed
that they had a second release of the 85 with the Nagaoka Mp110 and my
previous research indicated that the Mp110 was absolutely my cartridge
of choice so .... Canadian or not- there is hardly any negatives that would
preclude me from purchasing this turntable. Sure, I heard that the piano gloss
black finish is't perfect but its the only criticism and ... I just do not care.
That acrylic platter is gorgeous and from what some reviewers are saying..
this RT85N teamed up with a Schiit Mani is a real winner. Thank you Randy❗
and Fluance. (fantastic price by the way)
I’ve owned or own the RT 80, 81, 83 and 85 and have loved them all. Great looking and terrific sounding tables at a competitive price. You can’t beat them in my estimation.
agreed
does one of them come with a plynth made of a different material?
@@handrewmillan4293 All the plinths for each model are made from the same materials.
@@davidgena2667 thank you 🙏
When you introduce a cheaper cartridge option, you should also adjust your pricing accordingly, no?
Great review,I'll pair it up with the fluance fi70
If you were a Jazz fan, would you go with the 85, or the 85N?
if your system is base heavy get the RT85...if not get the RT85N
I don't know anything about turntables and don't own one but I'm watching anyways because I like to watch you talk
is that weird? maybe, idk
Yeah, well, my pop had a turntable. And some sort of hi-fi system ~ that I have no idea of the brand name. He also had a reel to reel. And some sort of like that early fender amp burlap stuff laminated . . .
. . . or like varnished. The turntable was delicate. I have no idea what it was. The needle had to be replaced at some point I have no idea how it got broken. There was a cuckoo clock on the wall above and next to the TV and it was like Looney Tunes and Tom & Jerry and Sesame Street and Gilliagans Island . . . and the Herculoids all the time . .
The Nagaoka MP110 is about the best value cartridge you can get. You would have to spend a lot more $$ to get anything better.
Mine sounds great on my Project Turntable, going into a NAD PP 2e Phono PreAmp & then into a NAD T758 V3i receiver.
It was a huge upgrade over the Ortofon cartridge that can std on the turntable.
I got the newer Nagaoka JT80LB recently. Can't compare it to the MP110, but definitely feel that the value is there. Such an enormous step up from the AT95 my Music Hall came with.
I need to hook my new wiim up. I’ve had it for over a week now.
i bought the project debut carbon dc a few years back but kind of regret it over getting the fluance. I didn't realize how much I wanted auto lift and speed switching, and now I'm in a weird upgrade spot where I'm not sure if I should side grade to a fluance 85 or save up money for a more expensive and better semi auto option.
Great review. 🤛 Would like to see you review some more
Fluance speakers
Been thinking about the Nagoaka for a while now. I have two tables, both vintage. One a Ratshack clone of a Technics, the other a DUAL Direct Drive. Both have the orignal Shure carts, which are quite good! But, I'd really like to hear what the Nagoaka brings to the table, pun intended? Plus, the Shures have been discontinued so getting parts, in the future, might not be easy and will get pricier and pricier.
Not a comment, but a question…what is it about the Ortofon cartridges that makes them so much better than the Audio Technica cartridges? I have never heard a side by side comparison.
Pioneer PL-300:
Type: direct drive
Tonearm: static-balanced type, s-shaped pipe arm
Cartridge weight range: 4-9g
Motor: quartz PLL stable hanging rotor hall motor
Wow and flutter: 0.025%
Rumble: 75dB
Price: Currently selling at $40-$80, used. (Price of unit may vary with condition and seller's greediness)
Find one... get it serviced and fitted with a decent cartridge first... and enjoy something that was was sold/built new "cheaply" in the heyday of vinyl (+40 years ago) that out-performs at a level untouchable by the latest "affordable" stuff, for far less total outlay. =;)
4g+ tracking force! No thanks.
-- the tonearm balance routine you outline is nothing new - its been done this way on many nicer tables for over 40 years. I still use a stylus pressure guage to verify accuracy, its surprising how far some tables are off in accuracy - saves a lot of time and guesswork.
Hey Randy hi. I get the fluance RT85 with the blue ortofon, and sounds great !. I already have the AT-LP120XBT with the very popular and cheap AT-VM95E, and after try them both for long periods of time I realize that both are great, both are very good turntables, a friend was in my studio and he was interested in one of my turnatbles. ( I buy and sell everything, ) and in my mind I wanted to sell him the Fluance, and it was because I think the AT sounds as good ( both trough the FOSI tube phono preamp ) as the Fluance, but for much less money ( I got it for 250 last year ) and have a lot of things that I dont use, as the usb, or BT, or the internal phonopreamp, but for a lot of people all that stuff can be very useful. The AT is well build also. Ok , The Fluance is a lot way pretty than the AT. The AT looks like a cheap beach party DJ playing electronic music, and the Fluance are elegant and very beautiful. Maybe you can try that cheap turntable with the VM95E and review it to see what you think. because I hear a differences, but in the end I think I enjoy more the sound of the AT. Maybe is because the all set. The phono preamp was the same, then the LOKI ( I love the LOKI ) then Amp and Speakers . Could be. I finally sell the Fluance to him (very good price for being here in Colombia ) and maybe i'll get another thing to hear and compare!!, Thanks, Great channel!
i did worse than you. I have an older Rega RO# with an upgraded aluminum subplatter and a an acrylic platter. I installed a 110 on it and am very happy with the sound but is cost a lot more so i agree going with the 85N makes a lot of sense.