The Star Citizen Community is Divided on New Medical & Respawn Changes | Greenhouse Podcast
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ก.ค. 2024
- Star Citizen has made a significant change to respawn functionality in the game, and many members have something to say about it. Today we hosted the 6th Greenhouse podcast, my call-in podcast getting the opinions of the community.
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00:00 Introductions
00:59 Dutchman-Ace
10:30 Col_Gentleman
20:10 AAK625
36:57 Baltzen
47:50 Out!
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Thanks again for having me on Tomato. ❤
so you addressed 1 thing which is wait time however the fact I'm gonna pay $15k for a rescue to save $30k of gear on maybe a contract that I'm getting paid as low as $10k if its a bunker. I can backspace & save both gear & money.
It's gonna be cool I was pissed at first too, Jared reconfirming backspace penalties and death of a spaceman on scl brought me back
@@jgrizz7943 Hence my point that CIG has systematically herded players away from using beacons. That started with the C8R gimmick and is continuing. They want regular play in the PU to mirror that of Arena Commander.
@@shakabrah1774 I don't have any faith in what they say.
@@AAK625 they are offering a medical beacon as a gift for going to Invictus, I don't think the plan is to abandon them any time soon but it seems like the system is changing
You had a really good summary sentence at the end of AAK. CIG is making casual play easier and is scaling the challenge for groups. Honestly that's great. For AAK and similar, I think their gameplay is going to be pushed towards groups or maybe supporting mass events like Raid on Orison. It's a balance for sure...
Limit the rezzing based on medical materials. Large medical ships with bigger beds can rez more but are bigger/slower targets. I’m down to try tho change and see how it feels. Hope medical players get a medical backpack or some way to play if beacons decrease… a concern is now you could take out someone with a constellation or Corsair or 600i in a bunker or outside then they could rez in a ship we wouldn’t traditionally think they could rez in. Maybe that is just an adjustment and something players now have to consider.
I do agree with a lot of what AAK said. Let's look at Vanilla WoW. They took out the need for rogues to be botanists, essentially. Now they are allowed to just apply poisons to their weapons with no roleplay. People tend to not like roleplay. Yet, to me, these are the things that make a game special to me. Call it tedium if you want but I call it non-combat content. I don't always want to just fight.
I don't want the game to be slowly dulled over time and less of a simulation.
BUT, at the same time, there are so many things that CIG tells us that we simply can't know are true or also, we can't know they will be true in a month. It's really hard to follow a vision that seems clouded to me at the moment.
i love roleplay but i think it should be slowly introduced as the game becomes more stable, right now the game is too unstable for stuff like hospital respawns. Eventually i think its a great addition, but right now with how many random deaths there are i like that they set it up in a more convenient way, i just expect it to change as time goes on and random deaths become a very rare to non existent thing
There's more to healing gameplay than just respawning - which is the least engaging part - tho, and that keeps getting glossed over by alarmists.
I’d rather have handwavium than stupid lore
What medical gameplay needs is: missions. Simplest is to pick up patients and then either perform care or drop them off at settlement with a medical clinic. Then stuff like first responders. Spawn ship wreckage somewhere on a planet, then accept a help mission. Go down there, pick up a patient and bring them to a clinic or again, cure them and drop them off at a settlement.
Personal thoughts on how id like med beds to work;
Tier 3: Stabilization - should heal tier 3 injuries and require virtually no materials or resources, but also should not support respawn, it should be a crash cart which is why it is on all our EMT vehicles, and why those vehicles ARE vehicles. If you can bybass the need for transport by having your medic stabilize you, have you set respawn, and kill you, it bypasses the real depth and importance of medical gameplay and disincentivises the weight of "Death of a Spaceman"
If, IF, we have to allow Toer 3 to respawn, it should be so inneficient it becomes costly. Super reduced range and in accordance to the math i show in the Tier 2 section, it takes a 1/4 SCU box to refill, but you should pay an inefficiency tax by having it use up goo at double the rate, so only 2 respawns for every 1/4 SCU refill. Its hard to carry a whole lotta boxes in these vehicles, so that seems a reasonable ballance to me.
Tier 2: Stabilization, healing Tier 2 injuries, able to replace limbs with mechanical limbs, and able to respawn, but at reduced distance and with limited resource pools that need to be refilled (refueled?) between uses, should be refilled by inserting resource (rebuild goo) in the form of enough SCU worth of goo (volumetrically) for each body respawned. A 1 SCU box has 515.136 us liquid gallons, it takes 16.379 us liquid gallons to account for the human body, round that out and each respawn sgould cost about 1/30 scu in volume, but for canon reasons to explain matter creation, lets say it takes roughly double volume to account for the fictional super material its made of. 1/16 is easy to account for, because it means a 1/4 scu refill could account for 4 bodies, so there is your tier 2 limit. 4 respawns, reload with 1/4 scu box of super goo.
Tier 1: Full healling, any injury, able to replace not just with robotic limbs, but able to form replacment organic limbs. Thanks to all that math, we can say it is filled by inserting 1 SCU of the super goo, and that since that is 30 bodies of volume and we double volume needed, that gives us 15 extended range respawns before refuelling with another 1 SCU.
Potentially unpopular opinion: armour attachment that can revive a person without a medic. One-time use, limited to heavy (and medium?) armours, for single-players, a single use attachment, either needs reloads or preferably to be replaced.
I'd like to have that, as the wait time for medics can be extreme (and sometimes you just stumble), and I'd always prefer revival to respawning, even if it was a nursa outside the UGF/bunker or nearby the DC. I use medics whenever I can, and I doubt that'll change with this mechanic. It feels more immersive.
Wanted to echo AAK's concerns, particularly around convinience and people not having enough time to play the game. Not sure it's a great idea to design a game around people who don't have enough time to play it.
I mean, as CR has said, he himself is such a person. Players with less time can make meaningful choices to maximize it. Like, you don't HAVE to start out every session with a commute if you live out of your ship.
Some quick ideas off the top of my head. (haven't really thought of the implications fully) 1. Make the regeneration require some resource. This creates a money sink and still allows for somewhat better fps experience. 2. Different respawn rules for different areas.
Love how you're able to get the right people on these talks and let them just voice their mind without leading the conversation too much.
I'm personally positive about the spawn changes and the direction the game is going.
Most people don't realize that there is that type of gameplay and they assume that the beacon is not going to yield anything
Deaths and respawning was by far the biggest reason I didn't play for more than a month.
God awful.
It's not too punishing, it's far too tedious and boring.
Especially with the plethora of jank that is so ingrained into the game itself.
Remember that CIG said the heroes of the game are it's ships. Not the players. Put into context what glorifies the ship over the player and you'll understand the plan. Death of a spaceman further carries the overall insignificance of the player character.
It will be very hard for players to disconnect themselves from their PC and replace that feeling with ships.
@@DistortedChrist a agree, but this is what they're doing. I hope the ship customization is enough to get me deeply connected to my vehicles. However, I won't allow myself to establish that bond if my ships get blown up, blown up at all. So it's quite a conundrum. I'm sure CIG has plans they aren't sharing. Some of those plans may deliberately take us to bad places just so they can tell the backers that the old ideas didn't work.
I think that this change isn't as bad as some of the other small changes that have been made. For example, when you go down now, you have like 20 seconds to raise a beacon. Whereas before you had the whole hour and 30 minutes of your death timer to do the beacon.
If I think about my experiences over the last couple years of playing the game, I backed the game in 2015 but really came back to 317 because I was seeing medical gameplay andsearch a rescue gameplay become really popular and this is the kind of gameplay that I wanted to be a part of.
Over the course of the last 2 years, I can't say that I've ever been quick enough in hitting the [key to pick up someone's medical beacon. Someone has always ever been there before me. But where I have been useful is being the party healer because even though med guns exist and med-pens exist, it always seems like no one really brings them and no one's really prepared going into bunkers and missions. This change with the Ursa Rover really allows for team medical gameplay to get stronger. If I think back to any of the overdrive missions we just finished where a couple times some of my teammates got tier 2 injuries and we had to go 10 million km back to a planet somewhere , park, get to a hospital, basically do a 20-minute diversion. Or if one of our team went down and we hadn't brought the carrack, we would have had to have waited another 20 or 30 minutes for that player to get back to us again. I like the idea of having something that fits into most ships where now I can be a stronger medical presence for an individual or a team that doesn't want to deal with that stuff. I imagine that I'll still respond to the same amount of beacons that I have over the last couple years, but now I have the extra added option of being a pickup ambulance that can support a team in their FPS journeys
I disagree with AAK that CIG is throwing in the towel in any way. Rather they're coming to grips with the fact that making one of the most complex games in history ACTUALLY satisfying for more than the most hardcore players requires managing the TOTAL complexity because the complex of each interconnected system can add up. If you make every system individually as complex as possible, suddenly the complexity of the game overall can ramp up exponentially, almost uncontrollably.
Also, sounds like he's unaware that Regen is planned to degrade over time and that injuries will sometimes persist through regen. It makes him think regen has no meaningful downsides, which won't at all be the case. You should've point out the Healing Your Spacemen article. There's always been planned to be much more than just resoawning to healing gameplay.
And the beacon chatter was a bit pessimistic, as if because they haven't fixed beacons they never will. What makes people think like that?
I like medical gameplay as an idea and have purchased medical capable ships. While this change killed that gameplay, it was in a coma before that anyway. The issue is that sitting on the ground waiting for a random person to save me is not fun. They could improve it with putting a timer for the person accepting the mission, but that doesn't stop their failure - reassignment and further waiting. Waiting for a ride sucks (transport beacon) for the same reason. It's unfortunate they couldn't put out their medical and death of a spaceman commentary with the release and change of respawn. So we are left to fill the space with what we think or hope it will become.
All the complaints are personal and short term outlooks. One of the biggest problems for new players is they go do a bunker solo, get knocked out, and they have three options:
1. Lose all their gear by respawning and take time getting back to try again
2. Give a random stranger their entire FUTURE reward for completing the bunker and wait a long time for someone to come by, IF they do
3. Lose all their gear by respawning and give up
I'd like to see a tier system. Maybe level one npc heal, level two npc heal and transport then unlock the ability to do beacons
Make a place on a planet/moon or a station that is the only place that crafts medical supplies for ships or vehicles that let you respawn. People will need to buy medical supplies to fuel the med stations in ships/vehicles and can be refilled like ammo and fuel in a hangar, or you could manually load it however players want it. With making very few places that create the medical supplies and players needing it would cause trade routes and a small player ran economy in a way for a start.
I bet the most players do not have a medical URSA or Pisces C8R. If you take starter pack only players, not much will change, beacons will still be spawned. Given the current state of the game and death due to bugs, I do not mind it at the moment. I do hope, however, CIG will actually let it be temporary. Once DOSM and consequences are in, I would be all for respawning at city or station only, which would make more sense with cloning facilities and all. At that point mobile beds should be for medical assistance only not coming back from the dead, in my opinion. Most importantly, the gameplay for as far as we have it, is a work in progress, not set in stone, never will be with an MMO.
Haven´t seen the vid yet, but imho about this topic, i don´t mind that every med bed can respawn, maybe just the lower tier med beds on vehicles only have a lower amount of respawns, shorter range and if badly injured, they can only keep you alive for a period of time untli you get transported to a better higer tier med bed. I have a bigger issue with "kill confirm" hit markers XD
Love Medical game play, why I may have got the Apollo Medivac.
Other thoughts on Backspacing back out to the Nursa just to run back into a bunker. what if respawning came with major debuffs? Slower movement, ADS sway, stumbling, start out with 25% health that slowly regens, 70% reduction to protection, something that could be called "Regen sickness". Basically, making a respawned player useless for 30 minutes.
I like the idea of regen sickness on a timer.
Great video!! ❤… Man this topic really gets me… I watch all of AAK625’s videos trying to learn how to be a better medic responder… I finally picked up a Apollo via a CCU chain, so now have a Cutlass Red Loaner… then this happens… 🙁. not cool CIG?!?! Please let us know where this is going… even if it’s going nowhere…
Great interviews as always Mr Tomato sir! On the topic of the current medical hoo ha I think that it needs to be considered that the current respawn situation according to what the devs have said in interviews is just the 1st iteration of this new mechanic and should not be looked at as being final so maybe some patience is required here. Personally I havent had the chance to try the medical gameplay as a medic yet but I would quite like to have a go at it as i think it could be enjoyable. I completely understand that the new update has taken away from the existing system but that being said there is 2 sides to this coin. So far my experience of being in need of a medic has not been particularly good either. Out of about 10 attempts to get help from a medic i think only 2 were successful. about 4 of the attempts resulted in me just being looted by the alleged medic and the remainder of the time my calls for help were just simply unanswered. This was one of the main driving factors of me wanting to potentially become a medic so i could try and provide a service in a way that people need it. So in this situation who is to blame? Is it the players that are just crap at being medics? Is it the people that abuse the beacon system or is it CIG for the respawn system? I can only hope that CIG has a proper plan in the pipeline for a legitimate medical gameplay system that is on par with the other game mechanics. I saw an idea put forward by @animusnocturnus7131 on a recent Astropub video on this topic and to quote his idea which i thought was a potentially amazing solution that would be great for medics.
" I think it's a bit of collumn a and a bit of collumn b.
The backers are of course making a mountain out of a mole hill again, but CIG actually made a bad decision with this. They should have created NPC medical missions first, and also should have added some gameplay surrounding healing of injuries, preferably with the possibility to heal all injuries in all med beds regardless of tier as long as a medic is handling the procedure, and only then allow respawning from all beds, but only with the old injuries still present." I completely agree with this kind of an idea and at the very least they should have explained how this new update would be intended to work in the future. WTF were they thinking with that ridiculous marketing vid? Honestly not surprised that people were pissed at that. It should have be a vid that demonstrated a combat medical gameplay loop of some kind. Show us what a good medical game play scene would look like after some thought and polish not that rubbish. medical needs to be a proper part of the rep system as well so that there is a cost for failure and a reward for success. The problems need to be addressed not just a band aid for the symptoms.
I love it. Med beacons are not reliable. It’d be ok if after a certain amount of time u got an npc to pick u up but that’s not how it is.
You have to look at why they aren't reliable. Time to revive is certainly one problem. Who wants to wait 30 minutes? Granted, AAK's responses are almost always less than 10 minutes, but he can't always be on duty. EDIT: People in need of rescue certainly need an NPC option so if there isn't a player working medical responses, the downed player can still get a rescue without having to resort to the backspace key. But consider the programming required to make that work. They can't even get NPCs at stations and settlements to work right...and we're talking about significantly more difficult situations. For example, you're downed in a bunker with 4 NPC bad guys within line-of-sight of your body. Your NPC rescuer would have to get to you and either revive you or tractor-beam you out and then revive you. For PCs, that's not always possible. Even AAK has fallen to combat NPC attackers... The 'easy button' is to program it so that you hit the beacon, fade to black, and when you next regain sight, you are onboard an NPC C8R or other rescue craft outside the facility where you went down, gear intact and ready to either leave or try the mission again... Is that OK, or does it break your immersion? Some will like it and others will call it 'magic healing' just like cargo 'magic loading'.
Then there's the problem of 'rescuers' who might be more interested in stealing your gear than reviving you. That's happened to me. CIG needs to alter the medic response code to provide a reputation for the rescuer and an option for the downed person to see it and reject someone with a rating that they feel is too low. There could be something like a Yelp leave-a-comment feature (called 'Help'??) so you can see what others have to say about the rescuer.
Finally, from the medic's point of view, there's always the threat of being called into a trap. That's happened to me a few times. The reputation gameplay I described above works here, too. The medic should be able to see the requestor's rep and decide if they want to risk going after them. I'm not altruistic - I don't feel compelled to help all callers like RL first responders and doctors are, who are obligated by the Hippocratic Oath to render assistance to all who are in need. Enlightened self-interest and a desire for my toon to NOT die is more important; it takes far too long to rearm/resupply. There should also be a 'public safety' bulletin that a PC can launch that announces the presence of 'fake rescue requests' emanating from a specific location, so if a medic is caught in such a situation, they can warn others about the jerks, er, shenanigans in progress. (There should be one like this for quantum interdictions, too, but that's tangential to the topic here.)
I’m surprised none of your guests considered the PvE mission aspect of what’s to come with medical. There’s going to be missions for medical to round out the game loops. As for player-player medical loop, I agree with the guests and you, we will just have to wait to see what CIG says when they eventually address it
I agree, but even with PvE, it is still death that simply being solved with a mobile respawn points.
Medical beacon gameplay is only fun for the medic, the rest of the players suffer for one dude to have his rescue loop.
Its cool but the rest of us have lives.
Whenever I take a step back, I do feel that death is too common in the game for deep support gameplay. Regardless of allowable respawn points, the only way medical gameplay is going to feel expansive is if there's depth to the status system and a beacon is not just a response to an on/off, living/dead gameplay outcome. A beacon can be about reviving someone as much as it can be about helping them stabilize a T1 injury so that they aren't losing a limb or suffering DNA degradation; maybe a T3 bed can allow respawns, but at the cost of DNA degradation accelerating, for example from the injuries sustained by the time a player is downed.
I do think T3 beds are slowly finding a good place as that group support, semi-specialized tool, which has a good precedent in MMOs where healing-capable classes and professions are great for solo grinding. That capability never negated the need for high tier healers in more intense contexts. Where Star Citizen can be different is that a casual healer can maybe keep themselves going, but a specialized healer can address complex status effects, prevent serious consequences, and generally bring another player back to 100%.
the game is frustrated to start over again when soloing...
I always said in forum, that:
making the Bed a "saving" place so that if solo playing one would die, he would instead respawn with a bad dream and all the zone progress would be erased/respawn...
he would wake in bed with all his original inventory... having had a bad dream somehow feeling premonitious...
and all NPC and loot would be despawned adn respawned...
THAT would occur only when no other players are within range...
once other players are around then they are either enemy and thus you are dead... or they can help you...
that would have solved all issue... and would have made the medical gameplay still viable...
it would have made the solo experience fun aswell...
and would justify to have long range scanners to detect incoming players before they get in the Zone that would make you fall off that "solo" respawn...
that's an idea I had more than a decade ago and I'm really sad to see that no one figured that out yet...
when you are in group... dying isn'T an issue asmuch... it's the solo experience that suck and that's why I almost stopped playing SC with all the crash and random shit occuring... it just get ennoying... I got other things to do than waste 1h to get to a place to crash and have to respawn and start all over again just for a mission...
loosing all gears in the process.
I don'T think they should have changed the medical bed... they should have changed the normal bed actually....
the only change to medical bed should be to be able to respawn anyone... aswell... just with a different time of death...
and you would still have to carry the body to it to respawn it...
lets just say that tier 1 would respawn dead body no matter the time delay...
tier 2 would leave you 5 minutes...
and tier 1 bed would leave you 2 minutes to bring the body to respawn it... so yo better be diligent.
I hate that Idea of teleport respawn... sorry it'S crap... I would rather accept to have to play an alt character to recover my other corpse and bring him to hospital or a medical bed myself than the stupid Respawn corpserun of all the MMORGP out there!!!
that game was advertising and promoted as a scifi space sim with survival element... not as a space fantasy MMORPG there is starwars or warframe for that.
1. Make the tier 3 beds retain tier 1 & 2 injuries on respawn to not make tier 1 & 2 obsolete.
2. The respawn can have timers if they are spammed, like the more you respawn, the next respawn will take longer, higher tier beds can have lower time intervals but they too can have respawn timers. This will make players think before backspacing as they will have to wait for regeneration. It doesn’t have to be very punishing in the start but when you spam it, only then it will start punishing. Like respawning every half an hour is fine, but every 2 mins is not.
3. The regeneration material for respawning will be limited like fuel and once used up in a ship, we will have to refuel it from a station or city that has a medical center.
There is a limit to how many times you can die an respawn. That is in the DOASM vision.
@@wraith511802003 even that works, bed timer just seemed relatable from another mmo survival I used to play.
Agreed 100%. DOASM can't be the thing that would limit this infinite respawn point. I would also suggest that CIG added a medic gameplay from the world itself. Beacon from NPC, being a contract medic, etc. Just like they said we can just be an engineer at refineries without even having a ship to play engineering gameplay.
@@fajarn7052 This is not COD in space, so there will be a limit to how many times you can respawn an based on your injuries where you can .
The beacon system is not relevant as long as there are only max 100 players on the shard. It needs more functionality and higher player density to work meaningful. So you need viable alternatives, which CIG is implementing.
I'm afraid many and most beacons are caught up in needing the "rework" other systems due to server meshing. All these things need to be able to communicate across the various servers, and that's why some are on the roadmap. Just my opinion.
The day the community isn't divided about something.or isn't freaking out about something is the day the worl ends. Seriously, this has hapoened every day ending in Y since 2012. This is no different!
Backing Original Project: Medical Gameplay to include Triage, Field Medical Care, Surgeries, Organ replacements, transporting patients to Hospital Ships/Stations.
Now: "Regen has always been the strategy" Respawn right in your very own Nursa a 1000 times with no consequences.
Time will tell what happens...
@28:56 you don't see these types of posts because CIG thru Spectrum mods either move, close or delete them. it's happened to me many times. Grrr.
First, everyone freaked out about this medical change should breathe and calm down. The original game lead for death of a spaceman is off SQ42 development and back on SC PU development, which means DOASM is still coming and this change, as stated by CIG was always in the cards.
Next, as many have said, medical beacon gameplay is stupid, at least at current implementation. It isn't fun to wait, on the ground, for a half hour to be found by a medic, when theres also a chance you're found by a pirate. Beacons should radiate and be offerred to nearest players first, to hopefully reduce wait times, there should also be ratings for people who accept the beacons. Going further, medical gameplay should extend beyond us, put up medical rescue missions where AI must be saved, AI who won't backspace. If medics has missions to run rather than idling in reds and C8rs, waiting for the calls, advertising in chat for their services. I personally will never wait for a medic regardless of the consequences, because it's too costly in time alone, let alone the reward. I'd rather prep well to respawn on my own craft with extra gear prepped.
Plus, now we can set back up fps level missions again to raid starfarers or C2s, with both teams able to respawn on c8rs.
All this medical gameplay is subject to change again. Everyone who is upset seems to only focus on the present patch and not the future. I'm much happier now with the respawn on all beds.
The changes are clearly temporary, and most likely meant to reduce the friction with the new A.I. working perfectly under Server Meshing, people will die a lot!
CIG is preparing for that so that people don't get too annoyed when it does happen, then eventually regen will go back to what it was.
In my humble opinion, I think the move to have respawning in things like the Nursa and so on is good "for now..." Given the current state of the game, with so many deaths and injuries due to bugs and so on, this seems the right move to me. Again, and I cannot emphasize this enough, good for the moment.
My heart goes out to the Medics who feel as though their gameplay loop has been cast aside with recent changes. However, I don't think this is final tier of medical tweeks. It's simply a step along the way. I believe that the Medic loop won't be really fleshed out until Death of a Spaceman is figured out. Only then with we begin to see a final iteration on the Medical gameplay loop.
I would hate to see a system where players are 100% dependant on another player to respond to their injury. There should be a choice, preferably that has consequences. Maybe something like this: If you choose to backspace and respawn, that puts you another step closer to a perma-death. Moreover, with the new update to cargo/inventory coming, these easily accessed local inventories will disappear. You have a better chance of keeping your items if you request help from the Medics in game, vs just respawning.
Just a thought though 🤷♂️🍻
This is basically Death of a Spaceman. We will one day have x-number of lives. Each time you die and respawn, your DNA is progressively destroyed to the point where regen is no longer available. This means you will lose your rep and some money. Some of your rep and money is transferred to your next of kin (a second character you create with the Bioticorp character customizer).
Getting in game takes so long and until the game is more stable it makes the game so much less frustrating being able to respawn faster.
Beacons in general suffer from underpopulated servers. It's MMORPG mechanic. No one expects multiple medical ships orbiting around specific planet and be available for contract within 5 minutes ETA because it doesn't make sense for medic orbit specific planet, there is not enough potential customers on the ground. Chances are that backspacing and just coming back will be actually faster and doesn't involve 15 to ∞ minutes of idle time because death is still non-consequential enough. It creates sense of distrust, low expectations and needlessness between parties as baseline. And that's it.
Another thing is personal reputation system, there has to be option to customize contract, choose and rate your rescuer mixed with automated system evaluating the outcome of the contract to avoid "review bombing". That's a lot of stuff missing.
As of now, there is no need for commitment on both sides even if contract is accepted (add bunch of technical issues potential preventing rescuer from finishing contract in reasonable time). Game is simply lacking crucial quality of life features to back up these mechanics and isn't in polished enough state to support this kind of gameplay at satisfactory level...
Anything that decreases tedium
Absolutely, I want a fun game to play.
Its a giant middle finger to thousands of people in medical orgs. And the more deeper we get in a patch, the worse it becomes because people will be able to afford medical ships/vehicles. Right now it doesnt feel like a major problem because its freefly and we are right after the patch. But getting a C8R ingame is extremely cheap. In a couple more patches the Nursa will be available to purchase, and that will put the final nail into the medical orgs' coffins. All that for a little sale. Well, chris, you got a big fat nada from me this ILW even though i planned to spend some.
i like how Tomato worded the question in the first interview. " what if you died every 3 weeks?". instead of clipping through the apartment elevator or getting out of the bed? tbh.. this is the Hover Mode thing all over again. with all the advancement we have coming in up to and including 4.0, the trader flips their ship, you shut it off or it shuts off from damage, and trader has a time penalty of unloading cargo from an upside down ship for not knowing their ship or mastering basic flight concepts.
i digress, hover isn't the point, the far reaching consequences of marketing decisions based on short sighted feedback of barely working game mechanics is. also, the worry of the 10+ year backers who get to see their dream game crumble just as their fingers are about to grasp it, and that the company would throw in the towel after this long, when it can do it.
medical is set to be fundamentally ruined, and this change is set to drop just before Server Meshing gives medics access to the entire server region of medical beacons. one Org with 4 Apollos could provide medic service to all of Stanton with Server Meshing. medical Rep was never added to prevent medical patient griefing, and the downed state is super basic. the way the downed state happened could have been iterated sooner, they could have basically reinvented the downed state, but they didn't even go CoD, which is basic.
just the way injuries were talked about was basically reinventing the downed state, but players are usually downed before injuries affect gameplay. metrics from this point on are heavily biased to favor casual gameplay, because absolutely no one is going to call for medics if they can respawn on a whim. they will just think, " there are 20 enemies in there, and i have 5 respawns left, so that's 5 people per life with one of mine to spare, then i'll just go reload my respawns"... that's basically insulting to the game's original concept...
Just add a pve medical extraction mission. Most medical gameplay is pve oriented anyway because players don't leave each other incapacitated.
We will see an easy solution to game loop for medical gameplay when we will be close to 1.0 because we will have 9 to 1 npc vs player and that means more medics for beacons ( also npc ) and more beacons ( also npc ) for player medics. We just need to wait , o7
There is always lots of hand wringing about how a player who has to wait for a medic might feel, but there are plenty of players who will happily blow up a cargo ship or mining ship and delete hours of effort of an industrial player, who then may have to wait a long time for a new ship before starting over. At a simple level, this game is being made PvP and FPS friendly, while support and industry professions are getting screwed all in the name of “reducing delay to getting back into the action.” It’s one sided game design, with combat players getting all the prizes.
I use medical beds as food and water and to respawn
There really doesn't need to be a discussion on the topic... The T3 respawns are temporary and suicide button is temp. I would like the feature to be permanent, but Medrunners are correct that it diminishes the Medical gameplay. Medical is a core game loop and relies on med beacons. So far, I only know of the Medrunners as a dedicated Medical group, the poor sods... This feature put them out of business LOL! Their members stand around 3 hours at a time waiting for a med beacon to show up. They are not allowed to do other gameloops. XD
Respawning isn't a big issue. That can be easily balanced. It just needs a resource to make work, like old MMOs.
Master Modes is the real issue.
Ehh, there is a whole death of a spaceman thing that we don't know anything about. Its also possible that the different tier beds represent a benefit. Say the tier of bed dictates how bad the death of a spaceman lasting injuries are, which in turn could decide how many repawns you can get. So a T1 bed, is 20% of your good meter, T2 is 10%, and T1 is 5%. So using only T1 beds you can respawn 20 times before your character "dies". Then perhaps T1 beds could have a 50% chance to have to amputate a very injured limb and require an expensive cybernetic replacement, but a T1 bed its just a 10% chance.
Just like I don't think the game should go to the, give everything to people very easily, I also don't think we need to go fully to the simulate everything type of crowd.
My biggest problem with this game is the lack of organic game loops. this is another nail in the coffin of player agency and interaction.
Medical was always difficult because of the low player counts per server, but people who put out beacons were always so grateful when a medic came and saved their ass.
This change basically removes that because the C8R is so cheap in game, why would anyone not just buy it and use it as their bunker runner?
Same with salvage, missions are now complete trash since the "economy rebalance" which clearly was tested by a grand total of zero devs with missions costing more to buy in than they reward.
How about you make abandoned ships non-owned after 12-24hrs and let players remove them and scrap them organically instead of them clogging up landing pads and filling your screen with markers outside every station?
The amount of easy wins to gameplay that are overlooked in this game stagger me.
AAK: "The only way for them to make a real profit long term is to start diluting. You cannot maintain the integrity of any of the original vision from years ago and expect to have the type of profit..."
So, betraying the people that gave them the money for that vision. And it's fine I suppose.
Space Tomato "They're not a company with investors". SERIOUSLY???? ARE YOU HIGH??? Anyone who's bought a pledge ship is an investor! Pass that joint to me my friend.
nobody takes my medical beacons anyway -_-
Jeez....it's like nobody is thinking on this topic. It's a process. Yes, medic players will have NPC beacons JUST like bounty hunters have NPC bounties....People complaining about it is just weird. Wtf is wrong with having NPC beacons??? The PvP side will still be there. This is a growing process. You can't have it all, throughout the whole process.
People who are mad about this are simply people that haven't researched the project enough and aren't aware of what they are buying into.
People who are mad about this are aware of CIG's constant lies. Just from this change people started making compilations of blatant lies from CIG. So I'd say it's the other way around. People that have been around for way longer than reasonable for a game to develop are the ones more pissed about it.
It does make me sad that medical gameplay is being trivialised like that. The allure of SC is having a bunch of choices of gameplay that need some skill and knowledge and the interplay between players with specialised roles. With SC becoming more and more combat oriented (which I hate) this is the time that medical gameplay should be getting interesting, not simplified to the point of no skill or knowledge.
@SpaceTomatoToo feels bad for CIG because of player demands, What about CIG digs them self a hole when they say 1 thing & do another Basically Every year. I mean Pyro is only 6 years late & SQ42 is only 8 years late & thats if they get both of them out to players this year.
The last interview the man is confusing medic play and rescue play. Medic play isn't diminished. The rescue play has been problematic, but he seems to enjoy having players wait on him.
Rescue play isn't medical play. Picking up players in escape pods, players floating in space, stranded on a planet, etc. Those are rescue ops. It's possible the player may ALSO need medical after rescue, but these aren't the same thing.
Respawn isn't medical.
Respawn with medical injuries is ok.
How about we be the medic for NPC instead? A beacon from DCs that is being raid, that would be nice. If player have their mobile respawn points, NPC should too.
And still, reiterating again. DOASM is a thing that can only be implemented in a finished game. It is literally a feature of voluntary inconvenience, it will not add anything to the current SC. And a small vehicle infinitely reconstruct bodies is dumb, IMHO. Even standard MMO rarely lets you bring your own bonfire, typewriter, your own save point to the battles. There might be a specific 'class' that can do it, but not everyone.
It needs limitation, but not to the 'death' itself but to the system and resources.
- It should only heal what it capable of. A mobile ambulance can't treat a brain hemorrhage, it shouldn't be.
- it should eat resources. Even our own space ship needs to refuel their hydrogen and quantum drive, which can be derived from, HYDROGEN and QUANTANIUM commodity ingame. I'm sure many people think similarly and we also already have MEDICAL SUPPLIES commodity in-game. Or if CIG want to add some other resources then its also welcome.
- The world itself should support the gameplay loop. Like many other playstyle, medic should also have their place in the verse, not just when requested by players. NPC beacon, being a contract medic, etc. If there's gonna be resources involved, people who wants the gameplay loop should also have some way to do it without the need of having to own a medical ship and waits for player beacon. Being a medic should pay well, there would have to be a separate system that goes into that.
Medical players are in the wrong to be demanding other players engage in the loop they chose. Most people backspace as it is. Almost nobody wants to sit around so someone else can get get their play time in.
If I only have 2 hours to play the game, I don't want to spend 30 mins of that waiting for someone else to play the game.
I've already seen people on spectrum and reddit moaning about DOASPM and saying its should just be debuffs that can be removed from medical treatment otherwise the game will fail... and I see that voice getting louder as time goes on and with recent changes I can see CIG caving in and making that change which is a shame.
Spectrum is a ORG circle jerk, You cant take anything there as legitimate. SPecturm MODS are in the orgs an only allow what they like to be posted an talked about.
DOASM will thin out the KOS kids an allow real players to return an enjoy the verse.
Yeah because as we play we see all the more ways we can die.. and having death consequences for something that is a glitch, bug, or game fluke should not have to cost more penalties, we already have more than enough penalties. Even on loosing ships for substantial periods of time. The devs think we have all these house to play it and most of us with dont not like we used too. Waiting 30- 40 min on a ship is too much not counting getting more gear and then fgoing back to where you were.. and if you died.. have to waste time to do it again. WHO WANTS TO PLAY LIKE THAT!? Not to mention they caused an uproar last year thinking they were going to be cute and raising some ships to almost 3 hours.. who has time to wait around like that? It will turn alot of people away and it already has..
@@danny1988221 If you payed attention at all you would know that in alpha or development death is certain for any reasons. You speak like you have no idea this is in development an expect things to not happen like they do.
DEATH an ship loss will be painful an thus you are going ot want to avoid it. Self regulates the KOS players who want RUST like chaos.
@5:00 is one of the reasons the SC community drives me to drink.
“Because CIG hasn’t said anything about the distances for Tier 1 beds that must mean the distance is infinite?
WHAT THE ACTUAL HELL?!? How did you come up with that conclusion?
Jesus. The community jumps to the dumbest conclusions and then gets all spun up over it.
Do you know what it means that CIG hasn’t said anything about the distances of Tier 1 beds?
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AT ALL
Just wait for them to give an answer.
Infinite distance SMH
Since allegedly station clinics have T1 beds, it makes sense their reach is unlimited.
This entire discussion is completely meaningless as long as we don't have death of a spaceman
It's just a mass test for a feature to work out balance and bugs...so much drama over nothing...typical.😒
Currently death of a space man does nothing, the last interview they say you don't lose anything, you keep rep, keep money. We dont have stats or any real progression other than those 2 things. getting pad rammed by some douche to lose gear,money,rep and look different or get some minor debuff isnt going to be fun. it's annoying gameplay
New med game play change is bad. It negates the reason for higher tier beds If all beds can fully re-spawn. A full regen should take time also. I hope with death of space man they keep it as simple as skill penalty's or rep penalty's for death. That would be enough for people not wanting to die. But they need to have skills first so there is something to lose.
It works like this in EVE. You can lose your clone that has implants and upgrades for skills. This is a very costly loss to a player because some implants and skills cost more than ships.. People dont want to die with this system. CIG already went with clones. That was a good move. Next of kin would have been stupid. Keep it simple and have it make sense CIG. Clones with skills/implants. Clone dies they lose their skills. Or maybe some of their skills, whatever.. A lose of hard earned skills or costly upgrades would be enough for players not wanting to die. Please do not make lives and a next of kin. That is ridiculous and nobody will like that. So many people would die from unavoidable situations or bugs, DO NOT DO THIS.
Have an NPC that rides along in a designated chair. Then when the character is downed, they transfer their controls over to the NPC. Then the player, as the NPC, walks down to their main character body, with a medical gun and a handgun (unallowed to equip a rifle in this state) and either revives them on the spot with a chance the npc doesn’t make it back to the ship, or as the npc, you drag your body to the med bed to be revived. Then you take control of your body again and the NPC is guaranteed back on the medical vehicle. They can then just path find from the bed to their designated chair. This mechanic gives solo players the ability to get all of their gear back in a meaningful way without having to wait the 40 min to be revived or betrayed. This also means you can only heal what tier injuries that bed is rated to heal. This also keeps the need for medics as now you don’t have to walk all the way from the vehicle to their body, then walk all the way back dragging their body to get revived. Having a medic player with you would always be more efficient than the idea I just mentioned.
If CIG didn't want to constantly fight a battle of game mechanics, they could have maybe not sold millions of ships, or maybe the 13 year development, well, when you take so damned long to make something your gonna be messing with everybody's expectations. Sense your dealing with people's expectations, it's a consequence of such a long development cycle and selling ships. I don't feel sorry for CIG at all!
man every time i see someone mentioning the dev time an extra year is added, we just reached 11 years and now ppl say 13
oh man I was reading the comments expecting someone to say "Respawning should require multiple crewman to pilot the med bed and cost a ton of money just to turn on the bed"
whats the fuzz, its just a placeholder, that benefits respawn over medical treatment under current the state of the game.. Whatever the mechanic will end, Im in for a discussion between simulation or availability/fun/epic battles etc etc.
"its just a place holder" "tier zero"..... after 12 years.
you know what wasn't a placeholder? the flight model back in 2016. it was the foundation. oopsie.
@@hangglidingmontana6134 haha, you dont like the game is still alpha.. then move on :) so many games that already managed to do the same or even do it better than Star Citizen... let me know when you found it xD
@@Paisa231 found my way over to hunternet Starfighter. Dabble in dcs as I wait for msfs 2024. If I want risk, I'll play rust. Otherwise I just race drone sims.
Defend it all ya want. I hate the constant flip flopping on mechanics to sell shit.
It's scummy as fuck.
@@hangglidingmontana6134 well if understanding is defendin....Okey if you think so, I don't care xD
It sounds like you should play other games, until SC is finished..if you have SQ42 in your game pack. I guess you can come back, when its released. Its most likely the first part of SC, that is done v1.0. Then you probably will experience how the Persistent Universe of SC will be. And if its a game for you or not.
@@Paisa231 it's not. I won't buy sq42 at this stage, bc they called their shot and fumbled hard. Every change seems rushed, lazy, and poorly thought out. The devs even say all too often "we ran out of time" HOW......
Answer me one question. How can anything get fixed, when the issue council rubber stamps issues as resolved, with no fix? For as many years as I've been "contributing"? Hyper moderation of the forums is sketchy af.
Listen to yourself. You are one of the very ppl that shroud is talking about.
its not divided. just as spectrum being negative about MM, isn't brigading. they "called their shot" alright....arrogant pricks.
devs come back from sq42 and destroy the hype for both games by alienating 70 pct of the active player base....what do you expect?
unless this dev team comes out and with TRUE humility, acknowledges their shortcomings, they're screwed. with staff like nightrider-CIG, as well as the IC "issue resolved" rabbit hole of rubberstamping.....I have zero faith in the project. i wouldn't buy sq42 out of a bargain bin at this point.
public trust has been traded for "one more yacht".
Leave a med ship in space, then if you die, your a safe distance away and still close to your stuff
CIG wants to stay in business making ships for you so they have to cater to a broader audience than the cultists if they want to survive and that involves ensuring MOST players are happy. If you are unhappy, you are probably a cultist. This is NOT a game but a testing platform The game, if it ever appears, will be significantly different than what it is today. So stop whining on TH-cam and go play the game. Or go play Starfield or EVE. You need a break.
GUYs this is not permnant. It has always been that you can repawn in any Medical bed. Suspect the injires wont be healed an or you wont repawn in a bed that is not capable of handling your injuries.
Yes... It should be that if you have a T2 injury but spawn back to a T3 bed, the injury should either be left at T2 or the bed should reduce it to a T3 injury but it cannot be further healed at that (or any other) T3 bed. It would restore your condition so you could get yourself to a better med facility. Of course, there's always an option that CIG could develop field medicine that would allow trained medics to 'finish the healing'; that is, if the med bed can only get you from T2 to T3, the medic could treat further to restore you to 'normal'. Maybe that's a fee they pay or special healing equipment they'd need to acquire...
@@mracicot Yes i am certain the med system an game play will come in to things. We wont have surgeons or anything like that, but EMS or FR or battle corp men would be easy to implement.
I honestly don’t see a valid argument here with med beds.
There will still be medical beckons since nobody wants to loose their armor.
Otherwise it’s hard to defend medical gameplay when there’s no medical gameplay yea?
just gonna assume that english isn't your first language, and that's why you don't see a valid argument here.
i have tried popping med beacons a handful of times, and let me tell you, i was ALWAYS killed for my gear. so instead of CIG adding a simple mechanic like reputation, they have created a new griefing loop, and are banning players for engaging in it. lmao.
the latest SCL speaks to the clusterfuck that is this dev team. they have no fucking clue what they are making.
@@hangglidingmontana6134 yeah I think at one point they had a straight vision, but now it looks like they are putting whatever stupid idea anyone comes up in the drawing board.. its too much at some point..
The new spawn mechanics are awesome and much needed!!
Im just glad people are losing their "medical" gameplay. We are in the future havint to rely on other people coming and playing doctor while we are wasting time waiting to get picked up. Yes it can always be changed some, but im sure anything is better than waiting on a beacon
The issue is they only let one person take it. They should let anyone take it and who ever gets there first wins. This would get you revived quicker and makes more competitive game play for medics. The fact some guy can take it never come and you can't cancel is ridiculous.