I have watched this about half a dozen times, my Vital-X 430 arrives tomorrow. Really looking forward to putting through its paces. Thanks for all you do.
I wanted to combo the accuracy with this video but didn't have much daylight to work with. I'll try to get that in for ya when I have a couple hours (and some decent weather).
Great video. I've done a smaller version of this test with a bit less in the way of weights but my conclusion is that adding weight (up to a point) quiets the bow, Reduces vibration, increases accuracy and increases penetration all without making a whole lot of difference in drop out to 40 yards. In my tests I go from a 380 gr arrow (including head) to a 440 gr arrow with both set up on my Hawke scope which compensates by using separate aim points for 20-100 yards. I sighted in both weights and shot the bow at targets from 10-40 yards and found the penetration significantly higher with the heavier arrow. The bow is much smoother and much more quiet. Accuracy at 40 yards was about 30% better. Even if I sight in with the light arrow and shoot the heavy arrow I am well within the vitals out to 30 yards. When I increased the range to 60 yards I find accuracy improves with the heavier arrow by more than 50% and the penetration is still deeper with the heavier arrow. At 60 yard the time of flight of the arrow is longer but not enough to really make much difference. The difference of 25-30 fps arrow speed really makes very little difference in a hunting arrow. I will sacrifice this tiny bit of speed for the accuracy, reduced vibration, additional limb life of the bow and accuracy obtained with the heavier arrow
🎯 sir excellent data, I first purchased a Ripper 415 then a Ripper 425 later, great xbows, many deer taken, with a 390 grain total weight bolt I always have a pass through even when going through the deer shoulder blade, full speed, flat trajectory and great penetration, works for me. -W. Liggett
Yep the more data the better. Good arrow weight and flight with a reliable broad head, preferably fixed blade single bevel tuned, goes a long way in boosting confidence in an ethical kill. Your data fits what I’m seeing in that a moderate weight, forward foc arrow provides good trajectory and penetration with lower limb stress and a bit lower noise. I found that a 500 to 525 gr arrow out of my 405 stalker looks to be in the sweet spot at 350 ish fps. My 380 stalker is similar with a 450 to 460gr arrow at around 350fps. Lots of testing left to do………. Thanks for your work! Verifies my understanding of hunting arrow efficiency.
What makes me mad is when they sell a crossbow with a speed of 430 and provide 390 grain bolts with it that crossbow should shoot 430 fps NOT just over 400.
Thanks for the info Matt. This x bow is still on my list. If calculations are correct & it shoots over 300ft/s @ 700 grains, that’s unreal efficiency! I’d love to try my 535gr GT Nitro 500 Pro’s in this.
This or the Swat X1 for deer hunting? Price doesnt matter. Torn between the smaller package of the X1 vs the speed of the 430. They are comparable in accuracy and noise? I haven't shot either. Closest dealer is 3 hours away. Thanks!
@@draggindeeroutdoors Thank you for the response! X1 seems like the complete hunting package. Extra speed is great but in this case the new shiny thing doesn't necessarily mean better
Gave up on KI crossbows- I purchased 4 different ones last year and each of them had problems from the Boss 405, Fatal X, Vital X, Swat X1. All Killer Instinct did for me was; won me over to Excalibur as their new customer. Thanks but no thanks and Jason couldn't give me one for free !
Good luck, I would be interested in knowing how the Excalibur works out for you. I have been shooting one of KI's least expensive bows going on 6 seasons with zero issues with the bow itself. Of course I upgraded all the accessories like the bolts and scope. I haven't shot anything lighter than 450 grains from the beginning. And I have been shooting 500grains, 22.5 %FOC most of that time.
Love the educational content! I would love it if possible to set up a system to measure the time differences from launch to target at different ranges. Reason being that the faster lighter arrows will hit the target sooner but not by much. Usually it will be a very small percentage of a second. This I believe is the biggest advantage argument out there. Speed kills,right? But light arrows suffer at impact. Then attach a mechanical to that light arrow and the whole thing is useless and unethical in my opinion. I know all of you kids reading this comment are going to ridicule me. And I don’t care, I was in that speed game too. I’m actually embarrassed to admit that. As all of you will hopefully see the light
@@draggindeeroutdoors I already know that 😀! I just think it needs to be shared to the public from all the bow hunting channels. It is an important issue in my opinion. Keep up the good work guys! Mike
Depends a lot on the shooter, hunting setup and alertness of the animal you’re trying to shoot. From an energy standpoint, optimized, heavier setups are going to carry more energy down range verses a lighter setup. Your proficiency is the limiting factor.
See here we go again Bud Your Got a killer instinct advertising there crossbow saying. It'll shoot four hundred and thirty feet of second and with the arrow that comes with You got 414 feet per second. Way off from what they say it will do. Why can they not get the speed right with their bows? I will never understand that And then whey got you guys review it, they want you to tell everybody the crossbow shoots 430 feet per second. The crossbow shoots 430 feet per second, but it doesn't.😢😢😢
KI speed ratings are based off of 370 grain arrows, which if you extrapolate my data set is going to be pretty close to 430. Bow Hunter planet also did a chrono test recently and got 420 with a 390 grain arrow. KI chose to supply the heavier 390 grain arrows with the bow. Other manufacturers do the EXACT SAME THING. I think the big take away is how linear ALL the x cam data sets are that I’ve done. No big drop offs in speed as you increase weight.
Yeah, but if the the speed of 430 feet per second with a 370 grain arrow, why didn't they give you a 370 grain arrow with the crossbow That's telling me they're not wanting you. To shoot a 370 grain arrow out of this crossbow. I wonder why.
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I have watched this about half a dozen times, my Vital-X 430 arrives tomorrow. Really looking forward to putting through its paces. Thanks for all you do.
You’re welcome! Congrats on your new bow, I think you’ll really like it. Good luck in the woods!
Great work young brother .
You saved me the troubles thanks
You're welcome!
Very well done sir. Now we expect a follow up video doing the same for accuracy and maybe even noise.
I wanted to combo the accuracy with this video but didn't have much daylight to work with. I'll try to get that in for ya when I have a couple hours (and some decent weather).
thanks but I was half kodding.@@draggindeeroutdoors
@@davidstonkus3288 haha! Well its a good video idea and one I'm still planning on doing. Have a great super bowl Sunday!
Great video. I've done a smaller version of this test with a bit less in the way of weights but my conclusion is that adding weight (up to a point) quiets the bow, Reduces vibration, increases accuracy and increases penetration all without making a whole lot of difference in drop out to 40 yards. In my tests I go from a 380 gr arrow (including head) to a 440 gr arrow with both set up on my Hawke scope which compensates by using separate aim points for 20-100 yards. I sighted in both weights and shot the bow at targets from 10-40 yards and found the penetration significantly higher with the heavier arrow. The bow is much smoother and much more quiet. Accuracy at 40 yards was about 30% better. Even if I sight in with the light arrow and shoot the heavy arrow I am well within the vitals out to 30 yards. When I increased the range to 60 yards I find accuracy improves with the heavier arrow by more than 50% and the penetration is still deeper with the heavier arrow. At 60 yard the time of flight of the arrow is longer but not enough to really make much difference. The difference of 25-30 fps arrow speed really makes very little difference in a hunting arrow. I will sacrifice this tiny bit of speed for the accuracy, reduced vibration, additional limb life of the bow and accuracy obtained with the heavier arrow
Love it. Good luck this fall!
🎯 sir excellent data, I first purchased a Ripper 415 then a Ripper 425 later, great xbows, many deer taken, with a 390 grain total weight bolt I always have a pass through even when going through the deer shoulder blade, full speed, flat trajectory and great penetration, works for me. -W. Liggett
Thank you!!
Yep the more data the better. Good arrow weight and flight with a reliable broad head, preferably fixed blade single bevel tuned, goes a long way in boosting confidence in an ethical kill. Your data fits what I’m seeing in that a moderate weight, forward foc arrow provides good trajectory and penetration with lower limb stress and a bit lower noise.
I found that a 500 to 525 gr arrow out of my 405 stalker looks to be in the sweet spot at 350 ish fps. My 380 stalker is similar with a 450 to 460gr arrow at around 350fps.
Lots of testing left to do……….
Thanks for your work! Verifies my understanding of hunting arrow efficiency.
Good stuff, Robert! Glad our testing aligns. Thanks for watching 👍
What makes me mad is when they sell a crossbow with a speed of 430 and provide 390 grain bolts with it that crossbow should shoot 430 fps NOT just over 400.
Thanks for the info Matt. This x bow is still on my list. If calculations are correct & it shoots over 300ft/s @ 700 grains, that’s unreal efficiency! I’d love to try my 535gr GT Nitro 500 Pro’s in this.
X-cam bows have all had really linear data sets, a testament to how efficient that cam system is. Glad you liked the video, hope ya pick up a 430 👍
Never shot anything with a crossbow huh?
This or the Swat X1 for deer hunting? Price doesnt matter. Torn between the smaller package of the X1 vs the speed of the 430.
They are comparable in accuracy and noise?
I haven't shot either. Closest dealer is 3 hours away.
Thanks!
No question X1. It’s one of the most accurate crossbows on the market with arguably the best trigger on the market.
@@draggindeeroutdoors Thank you for the response! X1 seems like the complete hunting package. Extra speed is great but in this case the new shiny thing doesn't necessarily mean better
This comment was basically for the vertical bows. It can also be carried into the world of x-bows. This is my reason for the comment
Heavy arrows for fast crossbows are pointless
@@WMBCS tell that to your limbs and string + cables
@@MichaelLakota-vc4tk dude shot a 400 grain arrow out of my same crossbow for 11 years same string.
Gave up on KI crossbows- I purchased 4 different ones last year and each of them had problems from the Boss 405, Fatal X, Vital X, Swat X1. All Killer Instinct did for me was; won me over to Excalibur as their new customer. Thanks but no thanks and Jason couldn't give me one for free !
Sorry to hear that, Kurt. Best of luck in the woods this fall!
Good luck, I would be interested in knowing how the Excalibur works out for you. I have been shooting one of KI's least expensive bows going on 6 seasons with zero issues with the bow itself. Of course I upgraded all the accessories like the bolts and scope. I haven't shot anything lighter than 450 grains from the beginning. And I have been shooting 500grains, 22.5 %FOC most of that time.
Love the educational content! I would love it if possible to set up a system to measure the time differences from launch to target at different ranges. Reason being that the faster lighter arrows will hit the target sooner but not by much. Usually it will be a very small percentage of a second. This I believe is the biggest advantage argument out there. Speed kills,right? But light arrows suffer at impact. Then attach a mechanical to that light arrow and the whole thing is useless and unethical in my opinion. I know all of you kids reading this comment are going to ridicule me. And I don’t care, I was in that speed game too. I’m actually embarrassed to admit that. As all of you will hopefully see the light
The Ranch Fairy has videos measuring velocity at distance (he has a lab radar system). Check them out!
@@draggindeeroutdoors I already know that 😀! I just think it needs to be shared to the public from all the bow hunting channels. It is an important issue in my opinion. Keep up the good work guys!
Mike
What’s the lethal/ ethical range for these heavier arrows then?
Depends a lot on the shooter, hunting setup and alertness of the animal you’re trying to shoot. From an energy standpoint, optimized, heavier setups are going to carry more energy down range verses a lighter setup. Your proficiency is the limiting factor.
Curious how fast it could shoot a 3,500 grain arrow
Rebar with fletchings 🤣
See here we go again Bud Your Got a killer instinct advertising there crossbow saying. It'll shoot four hundred and thirty feet of second and with the arrow that comes with You got 414 feet per second. Way off from what they say it will do. Why can they not get the speed right with their bows? I will never understand that And then whey got you guys review it, they want you to tell everybody the crossbow shoots 430 feet per second. The crossbow shoots 430 feet per second, but it doesn't.😢😢😢
KI speed ratings are based off of 370 grain arrows, which if you extrapolate my data set is going to be pretty close to 430. Bow Hunter planet also did a chrono test recently and got 420 with a 390 grain arrow.
KI chose to supply the heavier 390 grain arrows with the bow. Other manufacturers do the EXACT SAME THING. I think the big take away is how linear ALL the x cam data sets are that I’ve done. No big drop offs in speed as you increase weight.
Yeah, but if the the speed of 430 feet per second with a 370 grain arrow, why didn't they give you a 370 grain arrow with the crossbow That's telling me they're not wanting you. To shoot a 370 grain arrow out of this crossbow. I wonder why.
@@donwilson350Can you say limb explosion lol.