LET HIM FINISH A SENTENCE! Insanely Bad Faith Sam Seder vs Jesse Singal Debate
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ก.ย. 2024
- Last night on Destiny
Majority Report
► / @themajorityreport
Jesse Singal
/ jessesingal
Destiny channel ► / destiny
Bestiny channel ► / bestiny
Twitter ► / theomniliberal
DGG ►www.destiny.gg...
#Destiny
#Politics
#Debate
The crazy thing is, their fans fully believe they OWNED Jesse.
They owned Jesse with feelings and dogma.
He was so bad at the debate that he couldn't even finish a sentence, and you would take that guy seriusly?
Also he said we don't have enough data to determine, but like, doesn't he know that noone gives a fuck about science?
Weird guy, and shouldn't be trusted.
(/j)
As well as Hasans fan base. Just the lightest of critiques against Emma and or Sam will get you instantly Banned from Hasans chat. I caught a Ban simply from saying that Emma could come off as "Kinda Arrogant"
I’m 5 min in and sam has grandstanded so much that I don’t even know who this guy is or what he stands for😂.
Their fans have the same mindset, and openly embrace their tactics and dishonesty.
FR, that’s what’s so infuriating. Their audience is dumber that Hassan’s
Imagine as a fully adult human being not understanding a simple concept like ‘finish reading the article before making conclusions.’ I can’t believe the caller even entertained this phone call.
I know, nobody ever finishes my article "In Defense of Negro Slavery" where I say that some white people should also be slaves.
Jesse is a good guy trying to have good faith intelligent conversations, but that's not how this guy makes money hence the Fox News style shouting
@@Dhrrhee3e11a76you think it’s for money? Personally I don’t think that’s true, these people are true zealots they believe what they’re doing. And they will believe this conversation was a positive for them. They’re weird people
@@famalam943 for sure there's a bit of both out there. Idk about Seder
@@Dhrrhee3e11a76Wikipedia him
24:30 - "I'm going to give you 30 seconds"
24:33 - Starts talking
24:48 - Interrupted
They literally couldn't even give him more than 15 seconds before interrupting after they talked for 20+ minutes 😂
To be fair, Sam said he's giving him 30 seconds. Emma on the other hand...
Sam is DRIPPING with bad faith intentions from the moment the call starts and until it ends. You can see it clearly on his face, he knows exactly what he’s doing.
BUCKETS
@@UkiyoIkouALL THE BUCKETS!!!
Guzzling
It’s literally every single “debate” sam does. His with Destiny was bad faith as fuck and his with Sitch and Adam was the exact same. Sam acts like a confused old man the whole fucking time and gets caught on tiny little things until there’s like no time.
BUCKETS OF BAD FAITH
This was gross how little they let this guy speak.
If he let him talk more maybe you wouldn’t know how much they disagree! You wouldn’t know how much Emma and Sam actually love and are concerned about trans people unlike that scumbag Jesse signal!
The guy lied and came to talk about how much he wrote anti trans propaganda (that he lied and pretended didn't have wider consequences because he issued a "correction".) This guy lied on air in front of your face, and you're just sad he didn't get to talk more? Debate bro brain rot. My god
bro what @@SmokingDodo
@@pleshy5646 they’re saying that sarcastically bro
“Ok ill give you 30seconds…. But she wont”
What is so terrible about Seder's argument is that he is essentially saying that people should side with tribalism over truth.
Lmao. Welcome to politics. All of the talking heads on the left and right do this. Its why were so divided now. “My side is always right. Ur side is evil.”
Tribalism > Critical Thought
Tribalism > Intellectual Honesty
I mean, Sam is from a special kind of tribe...
100%, and Sam has always been explicit about this. He sees himself as a soldier in the information war. He doesn't give a fuck about the details of the issues that Jesse is concerned with. He sees Jesse as contributing to the Republicans' socially conservative agenda. To the extent that this is true, it's only because progressives have proven totally useless on this issue, because they bought into the woke way of thinking.
@@sambalekouy7298Wtf kind of comment is this
Wait, the dude talking to Sam got caught misrepresenting information, lied about and email chain, and just wouldn't answer questions. But hey, you believe wait you want to believe.
"i'm gonna give you 30 seconds"
they literally gave him 15 seconds before interrupting
how can people watch these hacks and think they're saying anything in good faith
Their audience doesn’t care.
They’re completely ideologically driven and happy when their side is bad faith as long as it’s effective
Cope
@@goblin6587Your mom regrets every breath you take
They are very passionate and care about a lot of issues I can’t hold it against them 😢😢😢
Because MR isn't a debate show. MR isn't about Sam and Emma's "good faith." They do interviews with people they find interesting, and then highlight things in the news or activism they find worthwhile.
I'm curious, do you think it's good faith how Destiny even gets these clips? Straight from chatters. Does he ever watch any clips that don't trigger him into a rant? This is Destiny's business model.
Imagine just now realizing Sam Seder acts in bad faith when it comes to pretty much everything.
Literally. Even though Steven Crowder is cringe, let's not act like Sam was coming to that debate with good faith intentions 😂
TFW the off-screen yes-man doesn't immediately tip you off. That's some Kent Hovind shit.
TIM POOL told this to destiny on his podcast
@@unclejeya3006I remember that. He was right.
I know man lol. I've always wondered how destiny and destiny fans took him seriously after I gave Sam a chance after first hearing about him.
Sam and Emma are always doing this garbage. They make a claim based on nothing and when you ask for specifics they retreat to it's a feeling or it's general or it's statistical, and when you ask for stats they don't have those either.
There's just nothing behind their views and claims except audience capture/positioning.
The second paragraph is my problem with Vaush too. People like them are not there to engage with ideas in good faith or reach a better or more truthful understanding. They're there to push a certain idea at all costs. It's partisan hackery at its finest.
It's like left wing tucker carlson interviews except slightly less unhinged.
@@amazin7006😂😂😂
Sam is always doing this garbage? Lmao stop being delusional sure he sounds bad here but sam most of the time is pretty spot on. A lot of callers are either not informed or literal conspiracy theorists.
Ultimately they don't really care about being good faith when they criticize those they view as enemies. Anything goes if it undermines them
I love destinys unflinching hatred of emmas stupidity.
I firmly believe Emma was the downfall of Majority Report. Once she was made official cohost it became budget MSNBC
Nah he just hates her because she went to private school and is privileged. Which is weird considering he went to private school himself. It's weird how he thinks he's some kind of working class hero. He does the same thing with Hasan Piker. Talk about the substance of their words without resorting to ad homs and talking about their privilege. It's not a good look for him.
@@franklingoodwin😂😂😂😂
@@nicholas4727 Some of Brooks's takes aged pretty horribly themselves. Ultimately, and I notice it mostly with foreign relations/geopolitics type discussions, they (Brooks, TMR, Left Reckoning, etc.) all suffer the same problem. They have one designated subject expert that they keep going to the well with. They never try to diversify their panels and that has lead them down very myopic takes on subjects.
@@nicholas4727 The show was just as bad when Brooks was alive. He pulled the same stunts they still do today. The fact that he died or took his own life, whatever the truth is (it's been covered up), doesn't mean he was a great guy. He wasn't.
Had to stop MR from showing up in my recommended because it's so much more obnoxious to see somebody make your own side look bad.
buckets is speed running that shit.
Occasional listener of Blocked and Reported here . I DO NOT understand how antagonistic these two are towards Singal. Singal repeatedly reinforces the point that the science is not settled one of another. and to criticize him for producing work that political opponents cite is bizarre and reeks of team sports approach to politics. Boo Majority Report 👎
They are unable to address the substance of Singal's critique, so the only thing they have to fall back on is critiquing the messenger, Singal in this case.
Well that’s the thing… the science IS settled. Transitioning is the best treatment and addresses the suicidality. It’s medical care.
@@jakethesnakestoner
No it isn't, but no one could expect you to know that given the level of curating of information going on. But say it was, if it was why would you be worried about factual articles that called it into question? If the science is settled it must be robust enough to withstand any contrary evidence thrown at it.
@markpostgate2551 I'm disappointed by MR's handling of this, and I don't think Signal is a transpose or anything. We absolutely have developed techniques that help trans people and trans youth in the vast vast majority of cases. Conservatives have also absolutely used any gaps in knowledge or nuance in the truth to obscure overwhelming evidence on issues they are ideologically opposed to like cigarettes, climate change, trans healthcare, and even torture.
@@monsterhunter30001
Yes, but we are not talking about conservatives. The politicians only took up this issue as an opportunity. The concerns are coming from parents, feminists, psychologists, doctors. This is true of climate change too; some of the first voices silenced were people like David Bellamy, Michael Crichton; what the right then do is they see an opportunity in these frustrated silenced voices and say "are they stopping you from speaking? Are they not listening? Come and talk to us?" and that is why there is a pipeline to the right from a censorious left. Climate change messaging was handled terribly, and still is; observe the reactions to Michael Moore's Planet of the Humans - not a film skeptical of climate change but an expose of greenwashing, which we are, by now, all familiar with to some extent - fake recycling programmes that cost more in energy than they save et cetera, but that received backlash from people as the reaction here - "you can't expose truths that might be used by bad people". This is aletheiaphobia - fear of truth.
And actually, Singhal is very balanced as a journalist and will expose conservative lies too. Remember the story about the gender fluid kid r**ing a girl in the girls' bathroom at a high school that many conservatives and gc feminists saw as a smoking gun vindication about a year back? The truth of that story makes the link with trans rights not only weak but non-existent; for starters, the school didn't have a self-id policy and the bathrooms were still segregated by biological sex, the gender-fluid kid was not claiming to be "she/her"; he didn't sneak into the girls' bathroom, the two teens met their regularly to make out - it just so happened on the occasion in question he went further than she was comfortable with and he didn't back of, so really it was a standard teen date r**e story. How do I know this? Because Jesse Singhal reported on it. He doesn't take sides; he just corrects false narratvies wherever he finds them.
On the bright side, he demolished them without saying a single sentence. What a joke.
That’s so true! This is from someone whose not a Republican either. I just can’t stand partisan hacks.
@@travisjones640 I lean progressive & Sam was so bad faith here it was painful to watch. The majority report has been disappointing me a lot lately. He needs someone else on the left like destiny to snap him out of it. He's acting just like vaush now, playing games of optics during debates instead of substance
@@frankmarano1118 why do the thought leaders of your movement consistently behave like this. Shouldn’t that tell you something friend?
@@GarrettBradfordTX The thought leaders of conservatives are just as cartoonish & whacky so I could say the same to you. They're just crazy in different ways, opposite ways. I just believe in things like Medicare for all because I've first hand seen my family get destroyed with medical debt through no fault of their own. Dad has over 30 stents in his heart & I've got other health issues. I think the government SHOULD use our tax money to actually do shit for us instead of wasting it all on NOTHING! But I think for myself, I strongly support the right to bear arms & have my own .45 to defend the house. I also don't believe in denying reality or science, I have no problem saying what a woman is. But your side also has fanatical beliefs, I mean the anti vax conspiracies were wild. (Though I agree covid probably came from a lab)
Just because you're a conservative doesn't mean I'd say, "hey look at trump & January 6th. Look at your thought leaders". We just gotta stick to our own true beliefs & call out our side when they get it wrong. & I got in hot water for calling out my own side ALL the time. My question for you friend, is do you? Or do you agree with everything they say uncritically? I'm not saying you do, it's an honest question & I'll believe whatever you tell me
Also I see Texas in your name, I've lived in Florida most of my life. We probably would get along pretty well actually. But yeah I'm a big destiny fan because he calls out the lunatic side of the left, I line up with a lot of his takes besides the random off terrible ones he will have sometimes
The next time Jesse gets on the Majority Report he should ambush them with Destiny. I would pay money to see Emma freak out and run away.
Like she's scared of Destiny. Why do you think everyone is scared of him? It's kinda weird
YES that would be amazing
Of course she is scared of him. TP made her look like a fool and he isn't half the debater. She would probably fake a heart attack if there was a hint of having to get eviscerated by Destiny.
MR ambushing people is something they have done before. A few years ago MR helped Ethan Klein ambush Steven Crowder. Ethan agreed to debate Crowder then when the show began, Ethan brought Sam on to debate Crowder instead and Crowder logically said no and left. Naturally, Sam and Ethan's fans all cried victory after having knocked over the chess pieces and shat all over the board.
"Steven Bonnell?!! What-a-fucking-nightmare"
I think the most telling moment of the conversation was at 22:45 when Sam says "Jesse, I don't know your stuff from Adam" after interrupting and preventing him from saying anything. I actually had to say out loud "Yeah, you don't know anything, so why are you doing all of the talking?"
"I don't know your stuff from Adam! I don't care!"
TRANSLATION: Just accept the narrative that I'm pushing because it's right, and if you don't, you're wrong. I've got a lot riding on this and people like you are making it hard to be right.
When your political affiliation demands you speak their agreed upon truths.
Because that's what people with an empty ideology do: they talk, disrupt, interrupt, shout and fuss because they know unconsciously when they don't have a leg to stand on for an agenda, that being a disruptive nuisance will eventually wear peoples' social discourse defenses down.
They want to berate you with their ideals until it's so annoying, you accept for simply wanting someone to shut up.
It's not a left/right thing, it's a narcissist manipulation thing, and those people exist across the spectrum of political affiliation.
From Adam?
@@mroctober3583 It's an english saying that basically means I don't know you. Basically Sam admits he has no idea about the topic or the person at issue, but keeps talking the whole time.
bc he doesn't want jesse to say anything in case he actually has to defend his positions. this is suprise crowder debate but in reverse
@@typhoidmary2967
Reverse uno card 😆
The moment at around 33:40 when Emma googles the first study she can find (but hasn’t read) is the very real issue of using studies that agree with you as Pokémon cards in a debate.
Elephant and rider, man.
The elephant is running somewhere, and now the rider is looking for a study to justify what the elephant is doing.^^
And Jesse sites the study and author instantly. She looked defeated
I don't think this is an isolated thing though, this is an area where I think the DGG community has done irreparable damage to online discourse, when stupid people find out about logical fallacies and the concept of empiricism, instead of using those tools to increase the clarity of conversation, they get used as bludgeoning weapons to end the conversation as fast as possible.
@@lydiawilder5996 wat. I mean yes, but, imagine laying that at the feet of DGG while also absolving Sam and Emma of their discursive crimes in this exchange.
Not absolving anyone of anything, not that I could. Just making the observation that people didn't generally want to debate using fallacies and pseudo-logical/philosophical terms before Destiny got big. Now all someone has to do to feel like they won is point out a mistake you made .@@pooplord6688
Emma is like if you fed OpenAI the tweets of every user with a furry avatar & rose emoji in their username
People call jesse obsessed, but if hes right we're literally mutilating kids without justification
and the mutilators scream at him that he's obsessed with childrens genitals
‘If’
@@Gr8whitemonsterthe "if" has pretty much been proven. It may be small #s, but it has happened.
@@Gr8whitemonsterwell yeah dude, if, you’re not gonna say being uncertain on mutilation of kids is acceptable? We should find out one way or the other, and then make decisions from there
They are being mutilated.
I really don’t get why Seder likes to tout himself as this “final boss of online debate” when you consider his only goal is to paint the opposition in the absolute worst light possible regardless of whether he himself is correct on a given position or not.
And yet lefties were celebrating when Crowder or Tim Pool "ducked" Sam. In reality they weren't ducking they did the normal thing to do, which is to not respect Sam Seder because his bad intentions are obvious. He will rarely engage, debate or discuss in good faith so there's no point engaging with him.
It's similar to why Destiny stopped engaging with Vaush/Hasan. It has nothing to do with fear it's just that you already know how the conversation or debate will play out and you have nothing to gain from it.
It's not Sam's fault Jesse refused to engage with the argument and called in just to rant.
Totally agree. I don't see why anyone considers him a great debater. All he does is act like a smug prick and condescends to his opponent, cuts them off any time they try to speak, and claims the moral high ground by virtue signaling. He's an extremely bad faith debate bro.
He has main character syndrome.
@@Michael_Paul585what rant he hardly talked at all
This should be main channel content people need to see this
I actually enjoy TMR and Sam, and I’m no huge fan of Jesse Singal but this was absolutely insane… I couldn’t believe what I was witnessing when I watched this. I’ve seen plenty of debates where people interrupt and talk over each other but holy fuck dude, at one point the guy literally just asked for 30 seconds to speak and Sam was like “okay go ahead,” and then proceeded to railroad him again after about 5 seconds. He barely got two words out. And then at one point Jesse was literally trying to answer a direct question and Sam just kept repeating “NO, ANSWER THE QUESTION, ANSWER THE QUESTION, NO BUT YOU HAVE TO ANSWER THIS. ANSWER THIS RIGHT NOW.” and it was just like… dude. He’s quite literally trying to. He’s only said one word so far. He’d say like, “okay so…” and Sam would instantly cut him off with “ANSWER THE QUESTION.” What the actual fuck.
And then Emma backing out of her appearance on his show at the end, with Sam actually saying “I’ll fire her if she appears on your show” was just… Jesus.
It’s all so ridiculous too because then you have Hasan clip channels with titles like “SAM SEDER DESTROYS TRANSPHOBE IN DEBATE”
Like yeah, okay dude. This shit just shows how mostly useless debates are in general, because each “side” will think their side won, no matter how they actually performed. I guess you can hope that 1 or 2 people watching had their perspectives shifted, but who knows. It all feels so pointless.
Debates like these are huge eye openers for those who aren't stuck in an echo chamber. If you are still a rational thinker and the guy you like or watch does this, you should start second guessing and quest how much faith you put in them. People all the time get de-radicalised by this stuff.
Like arent you litteraly one of those guys who dont think your guy won? While you cant convince most of the audience, you can defenetly push away the fence sitters, and even start to lose fans eventually.
@@trokolisz3702 I know, which is why I said “mostly” useless. I guess catching a few fence-sitters is certainly beneficial, that’s true. But Sam definitely didn’t do anything but damage to his “cause,” if you will, with this “debate.”
He's been declining sharply. He used to be a personal hero of mine but watching him and the shit show he's become when once he was great is just sad now. Emma's dumb as dirt and always has been. I don't know why she was hired.
Dude I hope you reconsider being a fan of MR after this debacle.
So Sam cedars issue is that it took 25% of a 12,000 word piece to make some virtuous clarifier? Emma is also nuts it’s like nuance is the devil for her. Like every article should just be “trans good”. Like the point in journalism also is to uncover all the deeply hard issues to fix and why they are like that in the first place. The majority report is literally kiddie pool depth when it comes to genuine discussion.
MR is virtue signaling for zombies.
Going from "you used outdated terminology" IMMEDIATELY to "you're being pedantic" was INSANE whiplash 😂
Just shows how Seder and Emma not being actual journalists hurts them. They just yell at guests or callers and have tantrums and cannot remain civil and converse to make any gains in the topic area.
Sam Seder is a smug bully. His behavior towards his guest, Jesse Singal, was just scummy.
The irony is Singal has apparently been on Sam Harris's podcast before, and Seder's trashing Harris over the torture article while not saying his name like he's Voldemort, lol.
Has nothing to do with "Voldemort" lol MR has done like 50 videos criticizing Harris
@@kg356 So why did he specifically avoid saying his name then? Can you actually address the issue at hand?
@@RanEncounter "nah that requires complex thought lol sam harris bad torture bad lolol" -sam buckets seder
@@RanEncountermaybe because he didn't want to shift the conversation to Sam Harris? Or he didn't want to make it personal?
@@blabit4983 yeah, jesse took every out he could find. saying harris name would just give jesse another excuse to not talk about what seder brought him to talk about. talking shit about harris is one of seder's favorite pass times.
I can’t believe their arguments are “we can’t be bothered to read or do research so don’t make anything too complicated or we will try to ruin you”
Why do you think this is about the people in the office reading the article? This is about _other_ people misinterpreting. They said he used factual information in a way that has had the effect of a lie to bad actors like Republican AG's.
Sam and Emma's move is to make asertions confidently as if they know the material, and then aggressively retreat to a different type of criticism whenever their counter points out how they are wrong. They rarely actually know things about the topic.
They claim that the work they do producing the show keeps them “in the know” like a journalist. It reminds me of tim pool’s youtube start where he claimed to be a journalist doing boots on the ground work until he got confronted too many times in public so he decided to just read articles as his content for a while. It was crazy watching a journalist’s content be “read journalism and comment”
@@zer0323 You mean read other journalists and give opinions with no basis in fact or reality. And bring on other youtube commentators who aren't journalists to give their pulled-from-their-ass opinions.
Hitler had some quotes about this
Neither read Singal's entire article.
Destiny should call in and have this debate with Sam over again, but go full Nebraska Steve to make up for Jesse's misplaced politeness.
Also revenge for his own misplaced politeness in the Rittenhouse debate.
@@JohnDoe-kn7exSam would guzzle the politeness
@@dreamspeakhomiebuckets of his politeness
🪣🥛🪣🥛🪣🥛🪣🥛
How could Sam fall off so hard? The Steven crowder brain rot after that ambush is insane.
He has morphed into a Crowder, talk over your opponent (check), make a strawman of them (check) think you have a study but literally only check the headline (check)
@@shanemac1646he didn't used to be like this. The past few years of the MR have been a free fall.
I’m so glad Destiny is calling out Emma, I have been so angry about Emma and her crazy and borderline psychotic lib takes. As a liberal myself she brings great disgrace
She's all or nothing. Nothing is all or nothing.
"Does gender affirming care work?" isn't a good question when we're talking about this kind of treatment. It's such a dumb question for someone that talks about this as much as this chick does.
@@indicted_ham_sandwich Exactly. The irritating thing about questions like this is that people like Emma would be the first people to tell others to "do their research", look at the science, look at what the experts say about this and that.
But when people ask specific questions, or want to get into the details of the science and studies, then they want to get general, and it's just "gender affirming care" and "it works".
It's so stupid because it actually HURTS trans people when we're not objectively looking at science to see what ACTUALLY works and doesn't work.
@@indicted_ham_sandwichexactly 💯
@@SmilingDesperado💯 exactly
I was a big fan of TMR in the past, but my enjoyment of the show and of Sam has decreased dramatically since he brought on Emma. She is just really dumb, and just spends the whole time virtue signaling. It's infected the whole show.
This clip is a good example of why the show sucks now, and why I don't even blame people like Crowder and Pool for not wanting to debate Sam. If this is an example of a good faith debate then it's a waste of everyone's time. I'm like 40 mins in, and I don't even really know what the guy's main points are because he doesn't have a chance to speak uninterrupted, or without Sam telling him he doesn't care.
He said he'd give the guy 30 seconds to say his point, and then his 2 underlings jump in 7 seconds later and cut him off. This isn't the first time this has happened.
You basically have to be an a-hole to debate Sam, or he'll out a-hole you.
I don't believe you cause Sam's two cohosts before Emma and Matt Lech were socialists who were more dogmatic
Steven has debated Sam before.
Hang on. Before Emma there was Jamie who I'm pretty sure is stupider than Emma.
Didn’t realize until he died, but I watched for Michael Brooks
@@Lewa500 True, but I meant when he's on his show with his goons. One on one he's usually a bit better. But seeing him like this is a turn off, and I wouldn't blame someone that saw this and didn't want to debate him.
Emma- I don't back down from anyone
Response- So you're saying you're backing out
Emma- Yeah I guess
Oh man. Yes I'm backing down.
"We like having people on with differing points of view, we don't like letting them speak, but we like having them on."
If it wasn’t intuitively obvious enough, Sam had his mind made up before the talk and simply brought this man on to jerk off to his followers. He opened the discussion with “I don’t care what we agree on, I don’t care who you are..” etc and never took his foot off the gas. I mean, he wasn’t lying there at least lol
I don't think any of you care about what was going on here, but I'll lay it out anyway. Sam was disgusted with a bunch of emails that Jesse sent him. This wasn't a scheduled debate or interview, this was Jesse calling into the show on the open line they have (to get some attention brought to himself?). I think Sam just didn't have anymore patience for the guy. Of course people who only see the end of a long thing that's been going on for over a week are going to think Sam is unhinged, but you're missing the larger context.
@@twiedenfeld if that’s true then that’s fair but I think inviting him on the show at all if you’re just going to one-sidedly yell at him for your audience is pointless and somewhat narcissistic
Matt Lech invited him to call in. Jesse published the emails if anyone wants to judge whether Sam should be "disgusted."
@@tragiceso5121well since the hosts are narcissists, that would make sense.
Sam Seder says "Torture Guy" instead of "Sam Harris" because people would recognize his name and wonder if he made good points - they might even read the article!
It’s nice that Sam took a break from guzzling his buckets and properly lubed his throat to constantly talk over jessie.
All this time and none of Destiny's fans know that Sam was mocking Destiny. I guess people with autism don't understand irony.
@@twiedenfeldoh, we know. We just think it’s funny.
I urge people to read the torture article by Harris, he basically says "it should always be illegal, but there are ultra rare cases where it could* be moral (but still always illegal, and not that we should engage in it)".
No good faith reading of it could say that it is "promoting torture" or giving cover to those who would promote torture.
Sam’s point was that (for the sake of argument) there may be nuance to torture, but in the context of the Iraq war and the war on terrorism, the article was not read with nuance. It was used to justify the actual real world torture happening at that time. Or an even more extreme example than Sam’s might be an article taking a nuanced look at the “Jewish question” in 1932 Germany or claiming that genocide might be justified in some thought experiment.
And I actually just re-read the article in question by Harris. It makes no mention of legality and is very explicit in its advocacy for the use of torture to wage the war on terror. Maybe we are reading a different article?
@@itsacorporatethingYou really didnt't get the point did you.
@@MortenK65The fact that you would even ask them if they got the point clearly shows that it was *you* who didn't get the point.
Saying that something is moral is the same as saying we should engage in it lol
Did he finish a single sentence in this entire call? 😂
Only 1 independent clause ☠️
Nope, he cut him off every sentence. Most the time the guy didn't make it four words into his sentence before being cut off.
Sam is awful. He has gotten worse and worse as the years have gone on.
@@01What10especially the past four years have been a debacle. The podcast is losing its legitimacy.
*WE* need to make dishonest arguments because *THEY* might twist our honest arguments 🙄
It's appalling isn't it? If you were told by an opponent that this is how they think you would imagine it was a strawman or an uncharitable theory about their motivations, but this is straight from the horse's mouth: "we don't want you to deliver facts that might be useful to people we disagree with." How can someone hear that argument being used and not wonder "wait a minute, are we the bad guys?"
I've been a fan of Sam and TMR in the past but it seems clear they know they're out of their depth and can't allow Jesse to talk or he'll dismantle their criticism. If you think you're right you shouldn't be so afraid of hearing the answers to your questions
Yup. They were using righteous answer to hide their fear
Bro he lied in the call. The call only happened because he lied and accused MR of defamation which he walked back. He lied about the work he cited. I don't think MR made a "good argument" here or anything, but this dude is a verifiable liar. This debate nonsense is ridiculous. This was impromptu. How would anyone be prepared to debate a liar without preparing to dismantle their lies?
@@mr.negativenancy5751
"He lied about the work he cited"
What are you talking about?
@@mroctober3583 Jamie Reed "whistle blew" about St Louis transgender Treatment. Patients, parents, and doctors in the program came out and said they didn't experience any of what she claimed. Jesse Singal just conveniently ignored that and still treated her testimony as critical
@@mr.negativenancy5751
Unfortunately they never let him speak so he could properly address that issue, couldn't even give him 30secs so my your measure if he's a liar, then vice versa TMR are audience captured grifters for speaking on issues they admittedly know nothing about.
Classic Guzzlin' Sam
Guzzlers gonna guzzle
How did you miss the chance to use Guzzlin’ Seder?
BUCKETS 🪣
Jizzling
🥛🪣🥛🪣🥛🪣
Chef's kiss when Emma tries to go after him with one particular paper and hes like "yeah the one by so and so that says this?" Rekt. These people are clowns.
Even better that she just cites the journal, and he's like yes, the one by X, oh no sorry, you mean the other one by Y. Because newsflash, studies are done by their authors, not journals.
Love a good old fashioned struggle sesh
I was literally thinking the exact same ema and sam would make great Chinese communists. Ema has such a low IQ she's so dumb and uninteresting. I hate just bashing people, but it deserved she is a horrible human being, and Sam isn't much better.
“HOW LATE INTO THE PIECE, JESSE?!”
-Walter White
How late? How late? Let him talk!!!!! Let Jesse talk. Jesus.
If we don't declare discoverable truths in the name of good, our enemies will find them in the name of evil.
THE GUZZLER RETURNS
Sam knows everything except he doesn't know anything, and he can characterize someone's work except he doesn't know their work from Adam.
He's so infuriating...I wish the ADL would tank all his sponsors.
Seriously. For real.
Every single Sam Seder conversation I've seen has completely vindicated Crowder's refusal to debate him.
Goddamn my respect for Sam Seder has cratered.
Chugging all those buckets has warped his brain.
@Voltroc buckets of what?
People like this are the reason conservatives are trying to ban trans healthcare. I’m absolutely disgusted by Sam. I knew Emma was a complete moron but I expected more from Sam. After watching his interview with Adam and Sitch and now this? Yeah as a progressive person, I’m moving on from listening to people who just repeat ideological talking points without a single ounce of critical thought towards “their” side. Thank phuck there’s people like Destiny willing to call these people out.
Yep. This is the reason I stopped watching Vaush.
The idea that we are immediately great at this brand new experimental treatment and it always works and no one should question it at all is the exact opposite of science.
It's absurd, and it's clearly a cult
"Trans healthcare" is a grift. The concept of transitioning one's gender is a spiritual/religious/ideological concept based on pseudoscience.
Let us know in this thread when you have your leaving the left moment now that you're going to be exposed to more rational points of view.
Emma's stupidity has infected Sam and erased what little intelligence he had left.
Emma, get the buckets
I actually would!
🪣🪣🪣🪣🪣🪣🪣
This is another reason why no one wants to do or even consider sam on their show. It's not a discussion. Dog pile for click bait. He didn't even get 30 seconds to get his point out before Emma jumped in!
And Sam and Emma are each others' boos. So there's that. 👅 😘
Emma is basically admitting she doesn't know anything about this. Should have asked her what happened in Sweden.
She and Sam did NOT read Jesse's article. At all.
Is it just me, or is listening to Seder speak excruciating? He just takes soooo long to say so little. It's like he gets paid per minute instead of per view. And then he says "I don't care" over and over. If you don't care about anything, why even have a discussion? It's just so bloviating and obnoxious.
The way Jesse answered the question if he believes that gender affirming care works shows that he understands these issues on a scientific level. Sam and Emma work off of morality and their vehicle to conclusions is "belief." Jesse on the other hand uses evidence and peer reviewed studies to arrive to his conclusions and it has nothing to do with morality.
He knows a good bit less than the average trans person knows in terms of trans care research. The people who have read the most studies, done the most medical research and generally know what they're talking about with this subject are trans people
@@lydiawilder5996 you're jumping from "trans people talk a lot about trans science stuff" to "they are all knowledgeable and well educated about it"
@@lydiawilder5996 yeah I’m sure 12 year olds on puberty blockers read all the studies
When I asked the staff at my largest local hospital, they all agreed that trans people know better than them how the science behind it works.@@capnfapn
There's essentially no funding from major research groups into trans care, and the research that is being done is about risk mitigation and not optimizing quality of outcomes. Trans doctors and scientists are the backbone of this branch of endocrinology.@@capnfapn
This is what happens when you surround yourself with idealogues like Emma.
Emma follows Sam lol
@@deathpig.9847they're work spouses.
Sam has ALWAYS been this way. I really don't understand why you think this is a change for him Destiny.
What Destiny is saying about the need to stick to the truth is SO important. This is why I watch this woman.
Why? Destiny said that he would rather have the Country go into a civil war than have Biden pardon Trump if Biden is reelected. That contradicts what he has said about truths in his mushroom trips. Destiny is not infallible and isn't always correct.
But she doesn't. She's a hack.
How quickly would your brain die if Emma and Lance had a debate?
I used to love The Majority Report, but lately, they've gone fully unhinged and bad faith
I have never seen them not unhinged and bad faith.
Majority Report was pretty good 4-5 years ago. The show has devolved into nothingness since Michael Brooks died. RIP Michael and TMR.
yes! With hindsight its pretty obvious that Michael kept that show together. He was the best there by some distance even at the time, but the others have all declined a lot since then. But the weird thing is the decline was relative slow until this year. Its this year when it dropped off a cliff, there's almost nothing redeemable about it now, I wonder what happened this year to push them over the edge. Its embarrassing
Michael Brooks shared Seders belief that this right wing culture war stuff wasn't worth engaging with seriously. Watch his debate with Sargon of Akkad. His dismissiveness is similar to Sam's but Brooks never allowed himself to get so worked up
@@kg356people have been forcing themselves to forget this for some reason🤦♂️
@kg356 Sargon of Akkad should be dismissed, and I can recall plenty of times where Brooks had serious conversations about "right wing culture stuff." He wrote a whole book about the IDW too.
@@kg356 Sargon of Akkad should be dismissed, and I can recall plenty of times where Brooks had serious conversations about "right wing culture stuff." He wrote a whole book about the IDW too.
"I'm not in sales" **Sells an ideology**
Destiny also sells you an ideology. He’s just better at hiding it than most.
@@WarningBFG-isHiringYes, Destiny sells you the shitlib mainstream Democrat ideology.
@@WarningBFG-isHiringhe's not hiding it, he's just better at laying out why he believes it
Emma Vigeland probably never lived outside a gated community.
She went to private school from Kindergarten to her senior year of college. Which is fine. But she grew up in a glass castle. And doesn't know it. Or refuses to acknowledge it.
@@edp3202 I think she refuses to mention it because she doesn't want people to know she's been born with a silver spoon in her mouth.
Ethan Klein has better debate skills and is more good faith than Sam
Man for real. The way he demolished pearl....I dont know why he said he couldn't debate and pulled that stunt on crowder with sam
@@ja9145lets be fair, its Pearl. He probably wouldn’t have had a good showing against Crowder mainly because Crowder is way more familiar with his own talking points than Pearl is
@@KRISTIANSMILJANIC I don't disagree. Crowder would've probably won that. But he said he wasn't a debater, but he showed in the pearl debate that he is. He didnt interupt for real, he asked good questions that backed her in to a corner, he had replies to everything she said. There's no shame in losing a debate, and his fans would've said he won anyway. But there is shame in setting up a debate with someone and sneaking another person in when that wasn't agreed upon.
@@ja9145 oh I agree, that being said Ethan has probably developed in the aspect of debating considering he has done a few of them at this point in contrast to where he was at the time of his Crowder stunt
@@KRISTIANSMILJANIC I guess that's true yea. I forget how long ago that sneak Sam seder thing was. And I knew I had seen atleast 1 other ethan debate, I just couldn't remember anything besides the pearl one
" I want to engage in good faith"
I think the first thing to do would be to engage in good faith then
Exactly 💯!
The Harris article comparison is idiotic anyways because it was a weird dumb hypothetical while Jesse's journalism involves analyzing scientific studies and talking to clinicians (who are often trans themselves!) about material issues affecting people right now. People who hate Jesse are effectively arguing that trans related healthcare should not be held to the same standards as every other kind of healthcare and that the people who these issues affect should not have access to comprehensive and nuanced information about the available evidence regarding their healthcare options, even if they don't realize it.
I've read a lot of Jesse's work and listened to some of his podcast and he's a nuanced, compassionate journalist doing the work of talking to actual medical experts in this field.
Destiny is rightly going hard here, and it is amusing, but the whole “Jesse Singal is obsessed with trans people” take he has is a bit off I think. It sort of implies there’s something weird about his interest - maybe there is- but worth a qualification if so. Singal is a decent journalist, I think his background is in government policy and he’s particularly interested the psychology research that has been informing policy from ID Pol through to economics. My guess is if anything is odd about his interest it’s more as a result of “enemy capture” rather than “audience capture”. People who disagree with him have obsessed about a handful of fairly nuanced articles he wrote years ago and have demonised him and forced him to defend himself constantly. It happens to everyone in this fight it seems, doesn’t seem all that weird- it is apparently the natural history of this particular topic.
“I hate her so much…” *scoots away from desk* that took me out
Jamie Reed is from The Free Press article (whistleblower on a gender clinic). She has NOT been discredited. Jesse has a VERY detailed response to those trying to discredit her and shows how the woman trying to discredit her has a specific agenda. (I think he actually may have done 2 articles on it)
The fact that their report was filled with illegally obtained information, as well as a multitude of factual errors is enough to discredit the whole thing
@@lydiawilder5996- You’re incorrect. There was not a multitude of “factual errors”. Jesse addresses those claims in his rebuttal. The Pentagon Papers and the NSA documents were also “illegally obtained”, it doesn’t make them incorrect…
It makes them impossible to verify, because you can't talk about information that you obtained illegally, publicly. It would in essence make it so that nobody could peer review the data without breaking the law themselves.@@HostileTakeover555
@@lydiawilder5996 - no it doesn't. you're mindlessly repeating talking points
@@HostileTakeover555 There were a multitude of factual errors (for example her claims of adverse physical effects were completely fabricated), some cases couldn't be corroborated at all, and a few could. Does that totally discredit her? "Discredit" is a meaningless word, if she is 60% correct does that make her credible? It's almost a subjective measurement.
19:23 Finally Destiny, you see where we're coming from. You can h8te it all you want, but this mentality that exists within our institutions is *EXACTLY* why we can *NOT* and will *NOT* trust them. They did it to themselves.
No just be good faith susceptible to claim. Not retard brain when seeing the studies
It's kind of puzzling to me that destiny's faith in these institutions didn't seem to be shaken in the slightest by this revelation and he's just upset that people who didn't trust them feel vindicated now. He should really be doing some serious introspection on why he was so dogmatically defending their findings during the world event that shall not be named purely based on his blind trust in them. It's the one thing that just irks me to no end about him.
Who's "they"? The people in the institutions or the institutions themselves?
@@humanmerelybeing1966 Both, and before you make the "bad apple" argument, it's the entire culture and the ideology within these institutions that expresses itself in the form of the individuals behaving in an untrustworthy manner.
@@LIQUIDSNAKEz28 Well, I wasn't going to make any argument about apples. But I feel you've just replaced one ambiguity with another, since now I have to wonder what it is you mean by the "ideology within these institutions." But I think I have a much lower estimation of academics, having been one myself.
I've lost a little respect for Destiny hearing that had respect to lose for Seder.
The man is the quintessential cackling partisan laughing at how dumb his opponent is without every explaining why.
I love how the woman who's taking a personal log of every time she sees a naked man at the window of his own home is accusing *him* of being a werido. Put up some curtains.
The issue isn't her lack of curtains, it's her neighbours lack of curtains and clothes. Sure he doesn't have to have curtains, but he should be cognisant that he has neighbours who can see directly into his home. These neighbours may or may not include children
@@franklingoodwinDoesn't work, by that metric we need to have the majority report stop talking about anything because the right cites them as examples of lefties being unhinged crazies.
Even if you wouldn't characterize their work that way or they wouldn't characterize their work that way, "someone used it that way so bad" is a fabulously idiotic take but exactly the one they use against Jesse.
@@franklingoodwin That is ridiculous. You can absolutely be in your own home naked if you want even without curtains. You are not forced to peep on some one through their window.
@@RanEncounter So her seeing her him means she's peeping? If people can see into your home and see YOU naked you should probably get curtains, or dont (what do I care). But it's weird to expect someone not to have vision or not to be able to look out of their own window because they might see your junk. This is some weird gaslighting shit you're doing here, acting like she's got some binoculars or a telescope to look in his window. I say this as someone who has no curtains or blinds in my kitchen btw. My neighbours can see into my kitchen. I can't complain about them seeing into my kitchen if I didn't cover my windows. I don't care that they can see my kitchen (I'm not naked in there), but if I did I'd cover the window. It's really that simple. Neighbours have vision and can see into windows if they're not covered. The answer isn't to say "don't look into my window", because the answer back will always be "then cover them then". People, cover your bedroom windows unless you're a freak that is into people watching you naked and/or having sex (or you're sure nobody can see into your window) 😂
@@franklingoodwin "So her seeing her him means she's peeping?"
Yes. You have no obligation to look at someones window.
"If people can see into..."
Why? Only if you care.
"But it's weird to expect..."
Then look out the window and not the other persons window. How is this so hard to understand?
"This is some weird gaslighting..."
Ah another person that weaponizes this word. Yes you are peeping on someone if you deliberately look at someones window. You reallt don't have to focus on that window.
"My neightbours..."
So what? They have the option to not look into your kitchen.
"I don't care..."
So why do you care if someone is naked in their house or not? You are not making any sense.
"The answer..."
False. You have no obligation to look at their window.
"People, cover..."
Or just don't look at other peoples windows. It is that simple. People can do what they want in the comfort of their home and you being offended by looking at their window is your problem. Get over yourself.
After watching the debate between seder and shawn "actual justice warrior" cannot wait to see what kinda shinnanigans erupt during this discussion 😅
Edit: this can all be summed up with a simple 48:18- 48:20, I have no idea why they are being so hostile to a guy who they have not let finish a single coherent thought before whiplashing him from topic to topic 😅
They arent here to talk. Theyre here to crucify infront of their audience and get 15 sec clips to clip chimp
Haven't seen this one but AJW took an L if you watched the last debate
@@jackeagleeye3453lmao no he did not he had substantial evidence and Sam just used rhetorical arguments with no substance
@@ohyeahjt Tell me you didn't watch without telling me you didn't watch lol.
@@jackeagleeye3453 I watched it in its entirety. Sam referenced nothing of substance. If he did what key takeaway is there from his argument?
Sam Harris is now officially the "torture guy"
@@indicted_ham_sandwich I have only listened to 2 of his podcast episodes. One with Jesse singal and one with Megan Phillips and I thought he was quite reasonable. I don't have much knowledge about him outside of that though.
I'm a big fan of blocked and reported which is why I'm here. I haven't listened to much destiny either.
👏👏👏 Even though I disagree with 95% of Destiny's views, I have a lot of respect for him.
TIM POOL told destiny that sam seder is bad faith on his podcast a long time ago
Yeah, but Tim Pool's entire career is a bad faith grift.
Yeah, because Sam humiliated him in their debate.
Let's be fair, if Tim told me the sky was blue I'd start to doubt it
There was a spot around 2018-2019 where I started getting a real bad taste from the Majority Report. They wouldnt discuss the other sides postion or even state it, they would just say how bad it was.
They've always had this view. They very rarely consider right wing beliefs (or what they think is right wing) to be worth engaging with seriously
@@kg356 well, that's when I noticed cause everyone learns things at their own pace.
@@kg356they definitely did it more before.
@@Ivan-qf4mt Sam has always been one of the most jewish persons in existence.
@@arnoldthomsen6571 What's that supposed to mean? Lmao
I'd rather be stuck in a room with no doors and a stereo that is locked behind an unbreakable case, perpetually playing "baby shark" for all eternity, than listen to Sam argue in bad faith for one hour in person.
😅😅😅😅
Sam is capable of understanding nuance when it benefits him, but when it doesn't he says that it must be ignored so that it isn't weaponized by the other side. It's an argument for dishonesty and was popular on the right for a long time, and still is to some degree.
We need another Jesse x Destiny talk on stream, they agree on a lot but the commiseration is so cathartic
Emma and Sam are unserious and ridiculous people in lockstep with whatever their rabid audience wants. Jesse is a good person with good intentions and knows far more about this issue than they do. They clearly have never read anything of his.
Sam & Emma are 2012 Cenk and Ana
Somehow Cenk and Ana are better now and we've come full circle.
@@theobviousidentity right?
I'd like everyone to know that Sam is not as stupid as he is pretending to be.
Nah he is just a scumbag which is why people actually don’t like or watch him
I dont doubt this is why people dont want to talk to Sam. Hes not trying to get to the truth, he's an attack dog. They didnt let this guy respond more then a few times and shouted him down the rest.
Lil Sis thinks the piece is supposed to be structured like a tier list 💀
This was cathartic. Glad that there are at least some people who see Emma as a vapid virtue signaler.
Sam seder beclowned himself
Dude is vehemently arguing about an article he didn’t even read?
I listen to Jesse's podcast, and at least to me, he seems like a person who deeply cares about this topic. He is extremely committed and serious, and it all seems to come from a place of genuine concern and care.
34:08
Normally if you are citing a journal you cite the surnames of the author or authors and the year first, then the title and then the journal if necessary, but short form is the surname and the year. Otherwise, can you imagine if it was "well have you read The Lancet?" "Er, could you be more specific please?" Particularly as some papers might get published in more than one journal.
The notion that puberty blockers "buy time" has been completely debunked. This means for example in gender clinics doctors would put very distrsught children on the blockers even if they didn't believe the child was going to be trans because they thought of it as a harmless pause on puberty. They later realized it's not harnless, it's not really temporary, and it likely guaranteed that a child would transition. The doctors were told the outcomes wouldn't be like this but they were so they decided to no longer use them willy nilly. Im talking about the uk gender clinic which collapsed because of learning stuff like this.
Sam talking about being responsible for what other people do because of your words is priceless when he inspired a mass shooter.
Seder's whole show kinda de-railed after Michael Brooks died, I can't watch these kids and Sam try to string together content.
Michael Brooks didn't let Destiny speak in their convo either, lets not pretend he's much better.
@@LastRenegadeTo be fair he hasn't interrupted anybody in like 2 years
@@Zach0451😂😂😂😂
@@Zach0451 That's because he himself was permanently interrupted.
@@LastRenegadeI definitely had no idea and wasn't at all making a joke
This is nerd crack. You’ve earned a sub, sir.
Emma's unhinged dogmatism on this topic completely put me off the majority report. Sometimes she is on the verge of tears. Sam used to be more chill but seems to cape for Emma on it now.
I think my favourite thing is how badly she tells on herself with womens sports and her "sports show" that simply doesnt cover womens sports 😂
Lot of internalised misogyny in her i think.
As I noticed in the Tim Pool debate when she gets nervous she stutters/lisps. She knows she's wrong but her pride won't allow it.
I used to love Sam. Not sure what’s happened to him 😅
Does Seder often bring up non sequiturs like that torture article? His analogy is so completely useless might as well have just invoked the Chewbacca defense.
@C3n0byte598 I generously called it an analogy in my comment, because yes, Seder thinks it is. Could you succinctly express what makes it a good and relevant analogy? IMO A bad and irrelevant "analogy" can also be a non sequitur.
@C3n0byte598 Seder is arguing for censorship, effectively saying "Just as a philosopher should shut up in case his ideas affect policy arguments, so too should a reporter shut up, in case his honest reporting of a political issue has an effect on policy arguments." and there's the non sequitur. Besides being utterly absurd, the conclusion does not follow from the premise. Singal has no moral obligation to stop reporting on the facts of an issue just because some of those facts might be used by Seder's political opponents.
You hit the nail on the head with childish and naive. Honestly disgusting behavior on the regular from these people.
Damn. Sam’s reputation is so fucked
For good reason. These two are insufferable
Lol nah, people will still blindly support this shit, forever and ever until the end of time
@@Gemerl Luckily Sam Seder is a nobody to people outside this super niche political space.
@@Gemerl Yeah dat youtube comment section doe
@@JohnDoe-kn7ex I dunno, you only need like 10% of the population to move opinion and that core group of people then disseminates bad information even worse-ly (is that word?) to the rest