Obviously he has "gigant" hitboxes cuz HE WIELDS A BIG SWORD, everyone must be thankful that they didn't put Sephiroth cuz if people get mad with Cloud's Buster and Fusion Sword range then probably everyone could yet in coma with Sephiroth Masamune's range.
+Eric Lee Wrong and constantly lie? I started maining Cloud, do I lie just because I main a virtual fighter in a Nintendo game? Oh my god, they want to win??? How dare they want to actually win! "Gayonetta", I can tell you're very young, or just immature. How about this, you pick up a secondary that goes even with, or beats Cloud? Or learn his weaknesses? Boom, he's no longer broken. You wanna know who was broken? Meta Knight in Brawl. Cloud is no where even close to it.
WarioIsMLG thank you for proving my point that cloud is broken and clouds mains only excuse is "learn the matchup" what matchup? You mean the VERY FEW characters that the matchup is in their favor? So basically I can't go on for glory because of all people who use cloud, mainly because I use PAC man and G&W, cloud is the STUPIDEST character in the game! I want to hear another excuse other than "get good" we can't get good from a character that has overpowered moves and frame data! "Learn the matchup" learn WHAT matchup? He beats every character with limit except maybe bayonetta, have I addressed everything, if not I am prepared to
Cheesyboy LMAO, Cloud is not broken! Some people don't even consider him top 3! The reason people tell you to learn the match-up, is because that's what you have to do to beat ANYONE! Learning match-ups isn't exclusive to Cloud. He has terrible recovery that you can exploit so easily. He has one of the worst actually. If you want to beat him, then play against a bunch of them and get them to tell you how you can play better against him. Match-ups are arguable. Some say Fox, Bayo, Sonic, Sheik, Diddy, and Pikachu beat him. He has a decent amount of match-ups that you can't be reckless in. Please explain to me how Cloud is broken, when he doesn't win many notable tournaments? If the character has flaws that can be exploited, they aren't broken. You wanna know characters who are broken? Brawl Meta Knight, he won most of the tournaments because of how good he was. Also, the Cloud v Pac-Man match-up is 60-40. The G&W match-up is either 60-40 or 65-35. It's like a Ganon main saying Pikachu is broken just because they lose to them a lot. So yeah, the easy solution is to GET GOOD! You can't expect to beat a top tier with a bottom tier without being good or facing a bad opponent. Join the Cloud Discord and ask for tips, or the Pac-Man or G&W Discord and ask how to play the match-up optimally. Us telling you to get good or to learn the match-up isn't an excuse, it's something you should do! Stop calling "broken" when your sorry ass can't beat a character. People like you are why the Melee community makes fun of us. They have Fox, the best character in the game with no bad match-ups, they didn't ban him or call him broken. They adapted to him and studied the match-up.
+Eric Lee Yeahhhhh, you're obviously a troll. I've seen you on the Bayonetta Rant video defending her, but you bash her here. But just for shits n giggles He can only use limit up b when he has limit, and Cloud doesn't always have it. His recovery is still ass. Down throw combo's aren't true after low percents. Yes he needs a few more nerfs, but not many. Bayo needs more than him. Who cares if Smash 4 is geared towards casuals? The competitive scene is much more diverse than Super Smash Shine- I mean Fox- I mean Melee. Please watch high level Smash 4 play, they don't spam rolls or air dodges. I can tell you probably only played For Glory and assumed that's the entire Smash 4 play style. Yes, ZeRo got robbed, but any character can rob someone. Ganon can kill at 0 with D-Air, doesn't make him BS. People make mistakes and Bayo exploits them super hard. Smash 4 is defensive because something can go wrong in a split second. They're trying to see what would work best, if it's boring, don't watch it. We'll be sending you clips of our boy Fatality destroying someone while you watch 20 Fox dittos in a row. Talk about diversity. Not many people are leaving Smash 4. If I'm not mistaken, Smash 4 can get more views than Melee. I'm not an elitist, I said I enjoy watching high level Melee gameplay. I even saw Hungrybox vs Armada at EVO 2016 live. Great game and Hbox deserved the win with all that shit with Mang0. If you complain about Cloud and Bayonetta constantly, then yes, you probably are a low level player that needs to learn the match-ups and the character's weaknesses. You probably are a filthy casual for Smash 4. You constantly bring up Melee acting like it's this amazing game that if you don't play, you suck. You are one of the reasons the Melee community is utter garbage. You know you can't just pick up Cloud and win tournaments with him, right? Cloud is a great character that's easy to pick up. Not every character needs the skill of Pac-Man or Ryu to use. No one ever complains about Mario, but he is also stupidly easy. Yes, Fox doesn't control the entire meta in Brawl, instead we got an actual broken character in Meta Knight. I know you seem to get these mixed up A little OP = Needs some nerfs OP = Needs nerfs Broken = Needs tons of nerfs and IS the meta. Both Cloud and Bayonetta not fall under broken. Cloud falls under a little OP. Bayo under OP. No character in Smash 4 is broken. Can't wait for your fun response.
Most bad sheiks get wrecked by a bad cloud, mainly because if you know how to use a controller you automatically are a threat to your opponent as cloud.
Merfilicious _ It's a rant,That's not something you research about.It's just someone saying ok here is this character. They're stupid. These are my opinions.
Risa JessGaming I don't have a problem with him stating an opinion on why he doesn't like Cloud, and I also know this is supposed to be a joke. But don't use use obviously false facts to get your point across. Especially when it's Cloud and there's no shortage of TRUE things to hate about him.
With that giant windbox, it can be pretty frickin hard to punish, especially for people who main slower powerhouses. An archetype Cloud not only shits all over, but makes obsolete because he has the same power but great frame data, range, and body coverage.
Lot of misinformation in this video. Cloud IS stupid but you said a lot of false things. Also, it's very clear you don't have a strong understanding of the game at a competitive level because you said a bunch of things that just weren't true. (His Finishing Touch doesn't have a lot of end Lag!?)
Yeah, you're right. A lot of the stuff in the video is exaggerated, but it's mostly for fun. I do understand i got the finishing touch part wrong (thank you comments section). I'm a little offended by the remark about not knowing much about the competitive scene, but i get that the oblivious nature of these videos would lead one to believe that. Thank you for the feedback GimR
Well dude, you're spreading misinformation. The idea of the video to be funny is fine but the content is competitive & you said many things about the character that just aren't true. It shows ignorance. I'm not trying to offend you, just try not to say things that blatantly aren't true. You have a pretty big audience.
Super Dragongmaster It can beat pretty much any move because it has 10 frames of invincibility that overlaps with it's hitbox. It can be used to beat 2/3 options (grabs and attacks are punished) so that leaves shield or wait/bait as your main option to punish her. I think it's what it's really good for though is edgeguarding recoveries with a hitbox or command grab since it also sends at a good angle for gimps.
Prince Royale Why are you even complaining about Cloud in the first place tho lol. Learning the MU would help you. This is December of 2016. Cloud has been out long enough that if you can't fight him by now that's on you. What's more, as GimR said, there is plenty of misinformation, and with the amount of viewers you get, there's gonna be some people who actually buy it. Smfh, unsubbed.
Interesting vid but there are a lot of counter arguments you did not mention: 0:59 The same thing can be said about the frame data of Diddy Kong, Sheik, Fox and many other top tiers. 1:45 Cloud limit moves are easily blocked by shield and players can throw/hit Cloud off stage to make him waste limit. Shielding is strong against Cloud since he has no guaranteed follow ups from grabs and has no kill throw. 3:50 Just because you approach Cloud that does not mean you are losing. We have seen many Diddy Kong, Sheik and Fox players gimp Cloud at crazy low % just by approaching and pressuring him (most notably Zero and Larry Lurr). 4:20 Again the same thing can be said about Diddy Kong, Sheik, Fox and many top tiers. You also forgot to mention the biggest thing about Cloud. Cloud’s recovery, that recovery, dat recovery doe is SO BAD. It is only good when he has limit, but if Cloud uses limit to recover, then he has no more limit cross slash and finishing touch until he finally charges limit all the way up again. I can’t tell if this was just a troll vid or not but I agree with Zero: Cloud is 6th on the tier list, not the best but not the worst either.
0:59 yeah but they aren't using a sword (let alone one of the largest in the game) that extends his hitbox way farther than those characters, giving him an amount of distance a player has to be away from him in order to try and attack after his attack finishes, although that distance now gives him enough time to throw out a follow up unpunished. 0:59 not if your in the air, you try and airdodge it and its still going to hit you due to how large the hitbox is and how long it stays, if you do hold up your shield during it, it can break your shield and you still can't punish him as it gives him enough time after the attack to either perform another attack or retreat. Getting close enough to cloud to grab him or to launch him is a challenge in itself due to again, his swords large and fast hitbox that also has heavy launching power. Going off stage to gimp him while is a good idea, his up special allows him to easily meteor smash you if you get too close due to its speed and sword size. Its not as confirmed as his other moves (depending on your character, etc.) but its still a problem. Air dodging also isn't as reliable as if you dodge when he comes up you most likely will still be hit when he comes back down, Best option would be too use a projectile or trick him into thinking your doing a follow up but not all character have a reliable projectile capable of that. 3:50 Having to approach cloud prevents you from charging whatever it is you were charging or falling right into his trap. his speed, and the strength+ speed+ range of his sword makes it harder to approach him, You essentially have to keep fighting cloud no matter what which give him the upper hand when it comes to predicting what the opponent is going to do. Not to mention that almost all of his attacks launches you halfway across the stage so no matter how much you stay on him, he gets an attack in and you have to race to get back over to him as he charges his meter again. 4:50 the main thing about clouds ariels that makes him different from those characters is his sword's speed+strength+ hitbox size. The characters you mentioned have hitboxes that only extends as far as their body, not the size of an entire cloud, around cloud. Because he's using a sword it also won't collide with most other attacks, and he can attack you from distances you can't attack him from. Basically the main source for complaints around cloud is his sword. Unlike most other swordsman in the game, its both fast and strong and each attack has the ability to kill or at the very least knock an opponent farther away for him to continue his charge. The sword provides him a small amount of distance where he can attack others from, but unless your using a projectile, you can't attack him from. Not only does the sword itself has such a large range but most of his attacks also cover a wide or tall area to. The speed of his attacks makes it harder to punish him also. Giving cloud the ability to charge his limit which gives him the access to 4 different KO options, and not allowing it to be knocked out of him is also a problem. Because he can charge it, he will and any second you spend not hitting him is one he has to build it up. Its not like little mac who only gets it from fighting and you can force it out of him and he has to be close to you to actually use it. Cloud is like if they took Ike, but made his sword even stronger and larger, making his moves as fast as marth's, a chargable little mac meter that can't be knocked out, that can result in 3 differnt KO punches and into a even taller Samus Blast.
Thank you for sharing your insight, I read all of it (you wrote me an essay 691 words damn bruh lol). Here is my response: I agree with the fact that Cloud is a good character, however to objectively judge a character you have to look at the good and the bad things about the character. Yes his sword is a great spacing tool, decent knockback, is relatively fast and his limit is good; but does this make up for the fact that he can easily get gimped at super low percentages (e.g. 8%)? He even has an un-techable part of his Up special so he is very susceptible to getting stage spiked at low % as well. Also if Cloud is such as good character, why haven’t we been seeing any Clouds winning major tournaments? It has mostly been Diddy Kong, Mario, Sheik and Bayo players winning; all the best Cloud players have been losing. 0:59 If you are in the air Cloud still has to make good reads in order to land limit attacks. If Cloud reads an air dodge, then arguably he should be rewarded. Many other characters can get kills at low % by reading air dodges as well, it is not just a Cloud specific thing. Also limit attacks only shield poke or breaks shields if your shield is low. Most of the better characters can camp Cloud out to recharge their shield (since shield recharges quickly) and then block all his limit moves again. Cloud’s Up special can meteor smash if you miss-space or incorrectly time your aerial, however if your aerial trades with Cloud’s Up special (or you hit Cloud before he uses his Up special) then Cloud is most likely dead because he won’t be able to go high or far enough to grab the ledge. Cloud can die even at 8% to gimps like this, as we have seen numerous times with M2k’s Cloud. 3:50 A good Cloud player can make it hard for opponents to get in (I agree with that), but likewise we have seen many good Diddy, Sheik, Bayo and Fox players still consistently find ways to get hits in and either: combo Cloud hard or gimp Cloud at low %. Zero, Salem, Larry Lurr, Captain Zack, Esam, Asriel and Trevonte are good examples of this. 0:59 and 4:50 True having a sword is a plus, however if you compare the frame data of Cloud’s aerials to Diddy, Sheik or Fox’s aerials we see that Cloud overall has worse frame data in terms of active hitbox speed and FAF. So it is a balanced trade-off; characters either have faster aerials with slightly smaller hitboxes and better FAF, or they have slightly slower aerials and worse FAF but with larger hitboxes. As to which aerials are “better” is up to playstyle preference/personal opinion. In the end I still agree with Zero: Cloud is 6th on the tier list, not the best but not the worst.
SumRandomAzn You know who else can be gimped at super low percentages? Little Mac. Difference here is that Mac's air game is so terrible it makes his ground game justified. Cloud has everything Little Mac does in terms of recovery, but now with a disjointed hitbox and the recovery becoming amazing once he takes/deals enough damage. Cloud has a few minor weaknesses, yes, but they aren't nearly big enough to justify everything else he has.
Merfilicious _ You call that mediocre? Look at Fox, Greninja or ZSS, THOSE are mediocre wall jumps. (or the Mii Gunner/Brawlers) Limit Broken Climhazzard is more than something, it is great.
I really don't have a problem with Cloud. Yeah he needs a couple of small nerfs to make him more fair. But Cloud is to easy to kill or burn limit. All you need to do is get him off stage. The people I have seen salty at Cloud typically play campy characters. Well I am not blaming you for being salty because he perfectly counters them. To beat cloud you need to be super aggressive. That's it be aggressive and you can win by not letting him zone you and charge limit. He is easy to gimp and not hard to deal with if you know what u are doing
***** If you can get in Cloud will have a lot of trouble against you. If your character has trouble approaching then your pretty much screwed. Why because Cloud doesn't need to approach to u cannot camp him or if try you won't be able too.
Cloud shouldn't even be in the game. My friend always says he can beat me when he uses Cloud and when I win, he says spam and luck but when he wins by charging limit break, it's skill. Cloud is broken. I wish he gets the biggest nerfs of any character in history
I swear if you're playing a slower character e.g. Someone not Sheik, ZSS, Falcon etc. you are NOT going to be punishing his nair on shield. There's absolutely no way when it's spaced on shield to get in, it's ridiculously free, has stupid shield push for its size, and of course autocancels. And for those who are like 'Learn the matchup' nope that's not fair when like half the cast aren't fast enough to get to him when he lands in time. Did I mention the no lag when he lands? Yeah. If I decide I want to play Ike or Wario or Zelda or someone who doesn't have Falcons dash grab/ZSS's tether...that's genuinely too bad you're not punishing him for just throwing out moves which is dumb.
You forgot to mention that a properly spaced, hit lag canceled F-air is COMPLETELY safe on shield, even powershield. The amount of shield/hit stun this move does is ridiculous, even if you power shield it.
Emmett Christenson It is not impractical, it's just a timing and muscle memory thing. Our top 8 Cloud main in our local area does it consistently, And if a 1 frame input was so impractical, why is perfect pivoting so useful? That's also down to muscle memory, and I've gotten to a point where I can consistently perfect pivot in a match to space better.
CanadianBaconPwnage Actually pivots are 1 frame in melee and you can piviot non 1 frame i melee its just it goes so little when not 1 framed. Perfect pivots in smash 4 is the same way but the non perfect pivots go closer to the one frame then in melee. 1 frame is hella hard to hit all the time
+CanadianBaconPwnage You can't Hitlag cancel on shield lol, The reason why hitlag canceling works is because your character retains momentum in hitlag, shield lag does not do this. +Emmett Christenson it's not a 1-frame window it can be done at any point of the attack, it's just easier and more noticeable on the first frame of a move +USERNAME_69_420 correct on melee pivots, Smash 4 pivots are a 4 frame window (different distanced based on the frame timing) +DATDUMBDOG that's a different mechanic
WIllIam Obed His up b won't snap onto the ledge, he can't even tech after a certain amount of frames, and it's vertical distance is mediocre. It's pretty bad
WIllIam Obed ya but mac at least can do his jolt Haymarker move (whatever it's called) to snap to the side of the stage. I'm not arguing that macs recovery is bad (because it is) but at least he has more options than cloud normal up b.
The tier list definitely becomes less and less accurate as the meta evolves. In this case, very fearful people have developed an anti-cloud meta. While he's still a strong character, everyone else knows how to beat him out very well.
I really hope Smash Ultimate doesn't have these unbalanced monsters. Bayo and Cloud basically ruined my enjoyment of the game and damaged the competitive scene, and if Ultimate releases and we get the same stupid meta again, I think I'll move to a different franchise.
I'm a Cloud main and even I have to admit that he is too good. Whenever I win with Cloud, I actually feel bad unless my opponent also uses a top-tier like Rosalina or Ryu.
Finishing Touch's frame data is not very good. The hitbox is out for 4 frames, comes out on frame 16, and has 60 frames of punishability. It's pretty useless unless you want to look flashy.
Emmett Christenson I wouldn't say it's useless, you can kill super early with it if you get a hard read, where cross slash or any other punish you can think of wouldn't even come close to killing. Since it launches up it also isn't reliant on being near the edge. The frame data is what balances it, unlike his other bullshit limit specials.
Finishing Touch has no use when you take Limit Cross Slash into consideration. Limit Cross Slash has way better frame data and is millions of times safer on block or miss. Finishing Touch does have high reward but too much risk for it to be useable outside of guaranteed combos and shield-break punishes. Also, if you're going to try to read something with Cloud, it's better to use a safer move, which in turn can give enough percent to let Limit Cross Slash kill.
Merfilicious _ What he lacks in speed compared to super fast moves (compared to super fast characters like Shiek and Diddy) he makes up for with his huge disjointed range, and power.
Oh boy, a Cloud rant. I wonder what he's gonna talk about first. Upair juggling? Limit camping? Cross Slash doing way too much damage? *Jab* Oh yes let's talk about Cloud's most average move first that's a great idea
Emmett Christenson I think the thing that annoys him about it is compared to other super fast jabs (ZSS and Shiek, for example) it has really good range.
Mrrglegrrgle Gaming he is not even top five dude I only play cloud for fun I play sonic and one of sonic's worst mu is cloud but I don't complain about him imo I think cloud is top ten but people just need to get good to understand why he is not that broken
If you pause at 5:59 you can see it doesn't even have to hit the end, in fact, it only requires you to be hit by it to get spiked and have some 12 year old save you as a replay for their montage with nightcore music in
Man, this comment section is so mean-spirited. He's saying Cloud is one of the best characters in the game! That's his opinion, stop getting mad about it!
I've just started the video, but isn't the whole point of Jab on a lot of characters just to swiftly stop a punish from your opponent? Maybe it's because I main Ike and he's kind of similar to Cloud and he has a fast First Hit Jab, but I use his Jab for those situations that I'm at a disadvantage REALLY often. Of course Ike has a lot more lag on most of his moves so it makes sense to give him this quick "panic tool".
Main problems I have with cloud is his Limit Cross Slash being almost unpunishable (how is that fair?) and his kinda ridiculous Up-air. Other than those he's sorta manageable.
I don't have issues with against him. In fact I like fighting him for how simplistically complex u have to play to beat him. Maybe kuz how my play style natually counters most of wat cloud does and maybe kuz clouds options r just to predictable I can predicted and prepare a hard punish on them. And yes I do go to tournaments.
+Sergio Sanchez, Who do you play? Cuz cloud does have even and bad match ups just like every character. This game has always been more about match ups over tier.
Merfilicious _ Actually its about the same. Clouds hits have very close (if not more) damage output that a all tippered marth would do. the only exception being nair and down tilt.
The damage yes, the knockback no(yes I know you weren't talking about knockback I can just tell he thinks no because of the ridiculous knockback on Marth's tipper)
oh gotcha. f smash yeah duh. but bair idk? clouds bair usually kills fairly early. and fair is iffy too since cloud's spikes. The others tippers arent used as kill options as much.
USERNAME_69_420 My mains dont do well against Cloud. Even if I learned the matchup it wouldnt do shit. Also your username includes 69 and 420 so why am I replying anyways
I hope this is just a bad joke, because Finishing Touch is easily punishable, and his forward aeriel is very slow and has lots of end lag, so you don't want to be going off stage to use it. Down aeriel can also be punished on shield.
This ones been coming for a while, no wait, got two that are needed. A. Luigi: neutral A. B. Yoshi: too much lag time and other various reasons. You work on it my bro.
Andrew Kornish Nintendo's idea of "party games" is messed up xD. Their main focus is always rage. *cough* Mario Party *cough* Bayonetta and Cloud *cough*
Well then, this party game ended up by being, by far, the most balanced fighting game to ever exist in relation to the size of the roster. Aside from a couple overpowered characters, the 56 characters in smash are almost all viable. Quite the party game.
I know you were kinda joking but you still said a lot of misleading stuff (or straight up lied) about Cloud to make him look more op that he actually is. I know everybody say this but you just need to learn the match up. Is not like you're playing against a top player if you lose every time against Cloud you're probably doing something wrong.
There were so many things wrong with this video... as someone who knows a lot about the character. First off, finishing touch has a ton of lag and most of Clouds moves are easily punishable, especially if you anticipate him going for a jab. Also, FT and forward smash are both really slow and easy to avoid if you know what you're doing. Cloud is top tier, but exaggerating all his strengths and ignoring his weaknesses to make him look broken just isn't right or fair.
Oh my god...can the people that main Cloud and know his background and games...please comment. And I'm sorry if you get bashed on playing him because you love ff. Zack didn't for this shit.
eh vids ok funny but has a lot of false info, finishing touch has over 60 frames of ending lag, most of clouds moves are punishable by shield, forward air is not just better then marios it has way more startup, Cloud is still top tier but its high risk high reward and some people just like the character, if he was broken he would have some tournament results, please stop throwing out the word broken. Tho still funny and up air and limit side b hitboxes are still to big but the character still has high risk which no one seems to take into account
I think you're taking this a bit overboard, and if I mained Bowser Jr., I'd probably hate Cloud and we all know why. Regardless, I do believe Cloud is top tier, but first, his fair isn't good, hitbox doesn't last, and it comes out frame 16. Secondly, you claimed Finishing Touch to be unpunishable, which is completely false, since it deals 1% of shield stun, and it has much more startup than rest, frame 16 as opposed to frame 2. You didn't mention his poor grab game either, but this is a rant, so you don't have to say his weaknesses. Regardless, I just want people to be quiet because I feel like Cloud will get nerfed by Nintendo on the Switch because a bunch of whiner babies told Sakurai, so don't give them a reason please, thanks and bye.
It's not "whiny", it is justified criticism and complaints about a character who's main weaknesses are easily overlooked when you give him chargeable limit. At least he is confirmed to be nerfed.
I use Cloud as a secondary and I just wanna say Cloud has end lag at the end of Finishing Touch and he has a bad recovery that doesn't latch to the ledge without limit, just saying.
I wish they would’ve just left him alone. Having a 15 second duration on Limit Break is all he needed, and MAYBE slightly nerf nair, now nair is next to useless
He would be easy to balance. Make him slow! Realistically, that giant sword would be making so much air resistance! Make his attacks have longer end lag, or start up lag, or lag in general.
Kirby was a mid tier in brawl and got nerfed when put in smash 4.... WHYYYYY?!?!?!? Other characters in the same tier or lower got amazing buffs and hell, characters like ZSS and Diddy where already good, but they got buffed again in smash 4 like fuck bro, cut some Kirby players some slack... Where are our buffs? We have like 35 changes, but like half are small smash attack changes like why? What about air mobility? Aerial frame data? Mewtwo was low tier and people were like "ugh, this isn't true to the character, mewtwo is super powerful and shit" well guess what guys?? Kirby is pretty much a god in his series. Why sakurai, why treat your own baby like a pink turd?
Jordan Sweeney nah, TBH hitting with a fully charged hammer at 30% will KO them, but it's so hard to hit. That's not even my biggest issue though, he's been nerfed so hard from brawl and he wasn't even a great character. He needs better frame data and his hammer isn't broken or anything, is just make it faster and give him more reward as an uncharged hammer KOs later than all of his smash attacks
SAMUEL REAGAN Jiggs have MELEE 1st of all, 2nd I know, like duh, Jiggs is worse than Kirby, hell, a lot of characters are worse than Kirby, but do I main them??? No. hell, this man did a video on bowser Jr. who is not the worst, but could be better. Are you gonna tell me Kirby should be better??? Should he stay crappy? He wasn't balanced very well to begin with.
im happy with the balance of the game to be honest lads... jiggly puff is a realy good character. using his neutral air offstage is realy dirty people just drop to their death. jiggs is just basic as fuck and boring im glad hes not over used
You and so many more people love to throw around the term "broken" and not know what it actually means. Cloud is a very good character, not going to disagree, but there are many ways to play around the character and exploit his weaknesses. Let's be real for a sec if Cloud truly was broken he'd have MAJOR results, period. Not only did this video have hella false information in it, but at this Point you're just shitting on a character 👎
PokeScene Exactly! I give all Cloud mains respect. People just like to say he's broken probably because they can't beat a Cloud. Cloud mains play for high reward, high risk. I main Dr. Mario, and it's not hard to beat a Dr. Mario. But I can still beat a character like Cloud with a low tier! And I fight against great Clouds! Auto cancels and Up Airs all around! So if I can simply beat a top tier with a low tier, then people who say Cloud is broken are just bad at the game. Simple as that.
I dont think its that way. Just think about it. Most top players play with the same character since the game release. Ok people dropped their main when bayonetta came out but cloud is not what bayo was. Thats why there arent many top players maining cloud. And you have to see his point. Cloud has really great advantages against other characters and only one or two exploitable weaknesses.
WHAT MOVIE IS THAT AT 0:03 JASON? IM LIKE WHAT IS THAT MOVIE AND NONE OF ARE NOT EVEM TALKING ABOUT SOMEONE TELL WHAT MOVIE IS THAT I know the movie now. search here's Johnny.
Caleb,because Bayonetta isn't as much of a scrub-food character unlike Luigi,who's Up-B can take a stock easily,I can't even remember how many FG Luigis spammed a bombardment of fireballs that forced me to approach and shield,allowing them to go in for the typical "Grab&DownThrow,F-Air,F-Air,Up-Air,Up-Air,Up-B".So I say this character is ridiculously easy to use,Bayonetta however...she requires skill,but is still somewhat scrub-friendly.
Meth Lab Madter ikr? It's your baby, get over your "I don't want bias claims against my character" even though mario is great and he was prob told to make MARIO good cuz he's MARIO and blah blah blah, so much for no bias
Cloud is like how he is on the inside
BROKEN
Demonic Pikachu
Well limits were meant to be BROKEN.
Delta Boi I think I know who the Cloud main is now.
Obviously he has "gigant" hitboxes cuz HE WIELDS A BIG SWORD, everyone must be thankful that they didn't put Sephiroth cuz if people get mad with Cloud's Buster and Fusion Sword range then probably everyone could yet in coma with Sephiroth Masamune's range.
@@edwardgamerx9061 *cough*
Oh shit, I predicted the fucking future!
6:05 what you should have said is "Its like a Mario F-air, but unfair"
Brendan Hughes but its "f-air"
Kaby its and unfair f-air because of its hitbox size
UnF-air
WIllIam Obed that is the joke dude
not all the part of hitbox spike you, the other side kill you for the knock back
Did he really just say finishing touch can't be punished?
In comparison to rest
Cloud main: "git gud, he's not broken"
You're just going to have to trust that he is beatable. How you decide to handle Cloud is completely up to you
+Eric Lee
Wrong and constantly lie? I started maining Cloud, do I lie just because I main a virtual fighter in a Nintendo game? Oh my god, they want to win??? How dare they want to actually win! "Gayonetta", I can tell you're very young, or just immature. How about this, you pick up a secondary that goes even with, or beats Cloud? Or learn his weaknesses? Boom, he's no longer broken. You wanna know who was broken? Meta Knight in Brawl. Cloud is no where even close to it.
WarioIsMLG thank you for proving my point that cloud is broken and clouds mains only excuse is "learn the matchup" what matchup? You mean the VERY FEW characters that the matchup is in their favor? So basically I can't go on for glory because of all people who use cloud, mainly because I use PAC man and G&W, cloud is the STUPIDEST character in the game! I want to hear another excuse other than "get good" we can't get good from a character that has overpowered moves and frame data! "Learn the matchup" learn WHAT matchup? He beats every character with limit except maybe bayonetta, have I addressed everything, if not I am prepared to
Cheesyboy
LMAO, Cloud is not broken! Some people don't even consider him top 3! The reason people tell you to learn the match-up, is because that's what you have to do to beat ANYONE! Learning match-ups isn't exclusive to Cloud. He has terrible recovery that you can exploit so easily. He has one of the worst actually. If you want to beat him, then play against a bunch of them and get them to tell you how you can play better against him. Match-ups are arguable. Some say Fox, Bayo, Sonic, Sheik, Diddy, and Pikachu beat him. He has a decent amount of match-ups that you can't be reckless in. Please explain to me how Cloud is broken, when he doesn't win many notable tournaments? If the character has flaws that can be exploited, they aren't broken. You wanna know characters who are broken? Brawl Meta Knight, he won most of the tournaments because of how good he was. Also, the Cloud v Pac-Man match-up is 60-40. The G&W match-up is either 60-40 or 65-35. It's like a Ganon main saying Pikachu is broken just because they lose to them a lot.
So yeah, the easy solution is to GET GOOD! You can't expect to beat a top tier with a bottom tier without being good or facing a bad opponent. Join the Cloud Discord and ask for tips, or the Pac-Man or G&W Discord and ask how to play the match-up optimally.
Us telling you to get good or to learn the match-up isn't an excuse, it's something you should do! Stop calling "broken" when your sorry ass can't beat a character. People like you are why the Melee community makes fun of us. They have Fox, the best character in the game with no bad match-ups, they didn't ban him or call him broken. They adapted to him and studied the match-up.
+Eric Lee
Yeahhhhh, you're obviously a troll. I've seen you on the Bayonetta Rant video defending her, but you bash her here. But just for shits n giggles
He can only use limit up b when he has limit, and Cloud doesn't always have it. His recovery is still ass. Down throw combo's aren't true after low percents.
Yes he needs a few more nerfs, but not many. Bayo needs more than him. Who cares if Smash 4 is geared towards casuals? The competitive scene is much more diverse than Super Smash Shine- I mean Fox- I mean Melee. Please watch high level Smash 4 play, they don't spam rolls or air dodges. I can tell you probably only played For Glory and assumed that's the entire Smash 4 play style.
Yes, ZeRo got robbed, but any character can rob someone. Ganon can kill at 0 with D-Air, doesn't make him BS. People make mistakes and Bayo exploits them super hard.
Smash 4 is defensive because something can go wrong in a split second. They're trying to see what would work best, if it's boring, don't watch it. We'll be sending you clips of our boy Fatality destroying someone while you watch 20 Fox dittos in a row. Talk about diversity.
Not many people are leaving Smash 4. If I'm not mistaken, Smash 4 can get more views than Melee.
I'm not an elitist, I said I enjoy watching high level Melee gameplay. I even saw Hungrybox vs Armada at EVO 2016 live. Great game and Hbox deserved the win with all that shit with Mang0.
If you complain about Cloud and Bayonetta constantly, then yes, you probably are a low level player that needs to learn the match-ups and the character's weaknesses.
You probably are a filthy casual for Smash 4. You constantly bring up Melee acting like it's this amazing game that if you don't play, you suck. You are one of the reasons the Melee community is utter garbage.
You know you can't just pick up Cloud and win tournaments with him, right? Cloud is a great character that's easy to pick up. Not every character needs the skill of Pac-Man or Ryu to use. No one ever complains about Mario, but he is also stupidly easy.
Yes, Fox doesn't control the entire meta in Brawl, instead we got an actual broken character in Meta Knight.
I know you seem to get these mixed up
A little OP = Needs some nerfs
OP = Needs nerfs
Broken = Needs tons of nerfs and IS the meta.
Both Cloud and Bayonetta not fall under broken. Cloud falls under a little OP. Bayo under OP. No character in Smash 4 is broken.
Can't wait for your fun response.
Well I mean, he’s on par with Sephiroth post FF7. Solo’d Bahamut sin. Makes sense he can do all these things
And now Sephiroth is in the game
I mean it makes sense, in his game.
It also makes sense why smash bros is a very different game
These 2 things shouldn’t mix, which is why they don’t
"Finishing Touch can't really be punished"
It has 80 frames of lag, you have plenty of time to punish it when he whiffs lmao.
compared to rest
Can'tThinkofBetterName the rest of what?
is that a joke?
No, you literally didn't clarify what you meant by "the rest". The rest of the move itself? The rest of the cast's moves? The rest of Cloud's moveset?
it has 60 frames of cooldown, but that's still heavily punishable
Most bad clouds get *bodied* by any competent sheik
RedQwerty I mostly play the spacing game with my nairs or back airs as cloud
I said *bad* clouds
Most bad sheiks get wrecked by a bad cloud, mainly because if you know how to use a controller you automatically are a threat to your opponent as cloud.
I said *competent* sheiks
RedQwerty I know what you said. *and I said bad sheiks would lose to a bad cloud because hes broken as shit*
Finishing touch can't be punished... Umm... Right.
Merfilicious _ yes it is.
Merfilicious _ It's a rant,That's not something you research about.It's just someone saying ok here is this character. They're stupid. These are my opinions.
Merfilicious _ I'm guessing that he expected people to already understand his reasons but he should've put facts in
Risa JessGaming I don't have a problem with him stating an opinion on why he doesn't like Cloud, and I also know this is supposed to be a joke. But don't use use obviously false facts to get your point across. Especially when it's Cloud and there's no shortage of TRUE things to hate about him.
With that giant windbox, it can be pretty frickin hard to punish, especially for people who main slower powerhouses. An archetype Cloud not only shits all over, but makes obsolete because he has the same power but great frame data, range, and body coverage.
Whenever I fight a Cloud his frame data pisses me off all over again.
For some characters, yeah, sure.
Kamaren most actually
I'm sure, being the superest of Smashers, it wouldn't be hard for you to beat any character with any character.
Kamaren yea true i win tourneys
Ohhh. Move aside, Leffen, the true 6th god is here.
You almost gave me a heart attack after saying "Pre-patch Sonic's back throw"
It's 2021
The Beast has been slain for years.
But even now I return to remember it's reign of terror.
Legendary Comment ^
"learn the matchup!"
sorry i can't learn the matchup while i'm dying at 31%
if cloud was really based on his game he would get stunned everytime he attacks until the opponent attacks lmao
Jonhyfun Can someone make a mod for this lmao
Do would all the FE characters
Nooo but hes gotta be stacked with phoenix downs
This comment section is filled with triggered Clouds lol
Lot of misinformation in this video. Cloud IS stupid but you said a lot of false things. Also, it's very clear you don't have a strong understanding of the game at a competitive level because you said a bunch of things that just weren't true. (His Finishing Touch doesn't have a lot of end Lag!?)
Yeah, you're right. A lot of the stuff in the video is exaggerated, but it's mostly for fun. I do understand i got the finishing touch part wrong (thank you comments section). I'm a little offended by the remark about not knowing much about the competitive scene, but i get that the oblivious nature of these videos would lead one to believe that. Thank you for the feedback GimR
Well dude, you're spreading misinformation. The idea of the video to be funny is fine but the content is competitive & you said many things about the character that just aren't true. It shows ignorance. I'm not trying to offend you, just try not to say things that blatantly aren't true. You have a pretty big audience.
Super Dragongmaster It can beat pretty much any move because it has 10 frames of invincibility that overlaps with it's hitbox. It can be used to beat 2/3 options (grabs and attacks are punished) so that leaves shield or wait/bait as your main option to punish her. I think it's what it's really good for though is edgeguarding recoveries with a hitbox or command grab since it also sends at a good angle for gimps.
GimR: The VG Scientist Burn
Prince Royale Why are you even complaining about Cloud in the first place tho lol. Learning the MU would help you. This is December of 2016. Cloud has been out long enough that if you can't fight him by now that's on you. What's more, as GimR said, there is plenty of misinformation, and with the amount of viewers you get, there's gonna be some people who actually buy it. Smfh, unsubbed.
they shouldn't nerf cloud, they should buff everyone else.
that makes sense
Duck Hunt is still a low Tier
Then that would be a boring game, just a bunch of combos
@divide two my main is your mains worst matchup. Rip
gbird there’s more to being a good character than combos. Cloud is good in ultimate and is literally neutral the character
Interesting vid but there are a lot of counter arguments you did not mention:
0:59 The same thing can be said about the frame data of Diddy Kong, Sheik, Fox and many other top tiers. 1:45 Cloud limit moves are easily blocked by shield and players can throw/hit Cloud off stage to make him waste limit. Shielding is strong against Cloud since he has no guaranteed follow ups from grabs and has no kill throw.
3:50 Just because you approach Cloud that does not mean you are losing. We have seen many Diddy Kong, Sheik and Fox players gimp Cloud at crazy low % just by approaching and pressuring him (most notably Zero and Larry Lurr).
4:20 Again the same thing can be said about Diddy Kong, Sheik, Fox and many top tiers. You also forgot to mention the biggest thing about Cloud. Cloud’s recovery, that recovery, dat recovery doe is SO BAD. It is only good when he has limit, but if Cloud uses limit to recover, then he has no more limit cross slash and finishing touch until he finally charges limit all the way up again.
I can’t tell if this was just a troll vid or not but I agree with Zero: Cloud is 6th on the tier list, not the best but not the worst either.
0:59 yeah but they aren't using a sword (let alone one of the largest in the game) that extends his hitbox way farther than those characters, giving him an amount of distance a player has to be away from him in order to try and attack after his attack finishes, although that distance now gives him enough time to throw out a follow up unpunished.
0:59 not if your in the air, you try and airdodge it and its still going to hit you due to how large the hitbox is and how long it stays, if you do hold up your shield during it, it can break your shield and you still can't punish him as it gives him enough time after the attack to either perform another attack or retreat.
Getting close enough to cloud to grab him or to launch him is a challenge in itself due to again, his swords large and fast hitbox that also has heavy launching power. Going off stage to gimp him while is a good idea, his up special allows him to easily meteor smash you if you get too close due to its speed and sword size. Its not as confirmed as his other moves (depending on your character, etc.) but its still a problem. Air dodging also isn't as reliable as if you dodge when he comes up you most likely will still be hit when he comes back down, Best option would be too use a projectile or trick him into thinking your doing a follow up but not all character have a reliable projectile capable of that.
3:50 Having to approach cloud prevents you from charging whatever it is you were charging or falling right into his trap. his speed, and the strength+ speed+ range of his sword makes it harder to approach him, You essentially have to keep fighting cloud no matter what which give him the upper hand when it comes to predicting what the opponent is going to do. Not to mention that almost all of his attacks launches you halfway across the stage so no matter how much you stay on him, he gets an attack in and you have to race to get back over to him as he charges his meter again.
4:50 the main thing about clouds ariels that makes him different from those characters is his sword's speed+strength+ hitbox size. The characters you mentioned have hitboxes that only extends as far as their body, not the size of an entire cloud, around cloud. Because he's using a sword it also won't collide with most other attacks, and he can attack you from distances you can't attack him from.
Basically the main source for complaints around cloud is his sword. Unlike most other swordsman in the game, its both fast and strong and each attack has the ability to kill or at the very least knock an opponent farther away for him to continue his charge. The sword provides him a small amount of distance where he can attack others from, but unless your using a projectile, you can't attack him from. Not only does the sword itself has such a large range but most of his attacks also cover a wide or tall area to. The speed of his attacks makes it harder to punish him also. Giving cloud the ability to charge his limit which gives him the access to 4 different KO options, and not allowing it to be knocked out of him is also a problem. Because he can charge it, he will and any second you spend not hitting him is one he has to build it up. Its not like little mac who only gets it from fighting and you can force it out of him and he has to be close to you to actually use it.
Cloud is like if they took Ike, but made his sword even stronger and larger, making his moves as fast as marth's, a chargable little mac meter that can't be knocked out, that can result in 3 differnt KO punches and into a even taller Samus Blast.
Thank you for sharing your insight, I read all of it (you wrote me an essay 691 words damn bruh lol). Here is my response:
I agree with the fact that Cloud is a good character, however to objectively judge a character you have to look at the good and the bad things about the character. Yes his sword is a great spacing tool, decent knockback, is relatively fast and his limit is good; but does this make up for the fact that he can easily get gimped at super low percentages (e.g. 8%)? He even has an un-techable part of his Up special so he is very susceptible to getting stage spiked at low % as well. Also if Cloud is such as good character, why haven’t we been seeing any Clouds winning major tournaments? It has mostly been Diddy Kong, Mario, Sheik and Bayo players winning; all the best Cloud players have been losing.
0:59 If you are in the air Cloud still has to make good reads in order to land limit attacks. If Cloud reads an air dodge, then arguably he should be rewarded. Many other characters can get kills at low % by reading air dodges as well, it is not just a Cloud specific thing. Also limit attacks only shield poke or breaks shields if your shield is low. Most of the better characters can camp Cloud out to recharge their shield (since shield recharges quickly) and then block all his limit moves again.
Cloud’s Up special can meteor smash if you miss-space or incorrectly time your aerial, however if your aerial trades with Cloud’s Up special (or you hit Cloud before he uses his Up special) then Cloud is most likely dead because he won’t be able to go high or far enough to grab the ledge. Cloud can die even at 8% to gimps like this, as we have seen numerous times with M2k’s Cloud.
3:50 A good Cloud player can make it hard for opponents to get in (I agree with that), but likewise we have seen many good Diddy, Sheik, Bayo and Fox players still consistently find ways to get hits in and either: combo Cloud hard or gimp Cloud at low %. Zero, Salem, Larry Lurr, Captain Zack, Esam, Asriel and Trevonte are good examples of this.
0:59 and 4:50 True having a sword is a plus, however if you compare the frame data of Cloud’s aerials to Diddy, Sheik or Fox’s aerials we see that Cloud overall has worse frame data in terms of active hitbox speed and FAF. So it is a balanced trade-off; characters either have faster aerials with slightly smaller hitboxes and better FAF, or they have slightly slower aerials and worse FAF but with larger hitboxes. As to which aerials are “better” is up to playstyle preference/personal opinion.
In the end I still agree with Zero: Cloud is 6th on the tier list, not the best but not the worst.
SumRandomAzn You know who else can be gimped at super low percentages? Little Mac. Difference here is that Mac's air game is so terrible it makes his ground game justified. Cloud has everything Little Mac does in terms of recovery, but now with a disjointed hitbox and the recovery becoming amazing once he takes/deals enough damage. Cloud has a few minor weaknesses, yes, but they aren't nearly big enough to justify everything else he has.
Merfilicious _ Side B is slow and easy to edgegaurd, and his wall jump isn't that much better than Cloud's, or even great to begin with.
Merfilicious _ You call that mediocre? Look at Fox, Greninja or ZSS, THOSE are mediocre wall jumps. (or the Mii Gunner/Brawlers)
Limit Broken Climhazzard is more than something, it is great.
I really don't have a problem with Cloud. Yeah he needs a couple of small nerfs to make him more fair. But Cloud is to easy to kill or burn limit. All you need to do is get him off stage. The people I have seen salty at Cloud typically play campy characters. Well I am not blaming you for being salty because he perfectly counters them. To beat cloud you need to be super aggressive. That's it be aggressive and you can win by not letting him zone you and charge limit. He is easy to gimp and not hard to deal with if you know what u are doing
*jabs*
WIllIam Obed *Shields
Benjamin Shaul Yeah, thank goodness Cloud has some lag after his jabs. And that he is also one of the more gimpable characters.
***** If you can get in Cloud will have a lot of trouble against you. If your character has trouble approaching then your pretty much screwed. Why because Cloud doesn't need to approach to u cannot camp him or if try you won't be able too.
Cloud shouldn't even be in the game. My friend always says he can beat me when he uses Cloud and when I win, he says spam and luck but when he wins by charging limit break, it's skill. Cloud is broken. I wish he gets the biggest nerfs of any character in history
You must be fucking terrible if you cant beat a pocket cloud
@Mai Cloud is the easiest character to pocket are you kidding me?
You're just a shit player lmao so irrelevant
Endless Void stfu Zss main
Asada Jones Try me.
I swear if you're playing a slower character e.g. Someone not Sheik, ZSS, Falcon etc. you are NOT going to be punishing his nair on shield. There's absolutely no way when it's spaced on shield to get in, it's ridiculously free, has stupid shield push for its size, and of course autocancels.
And for those who are like 'Learn the matchup' nope that's not fair when like half the cast aren't fast enough to get to him when he lands in time. Did I mention the no lag when he lands? Yeah. If I decide I want to play Ike or Wario or Zelda or someone who doesn't have Falcons dash grab/ZSS's tether...that's genuinely too bad you're not punishing him for just throwing out moves which is dumb.
The reason why they made Cloud a god is because Final Fantasy 7 is so good it's god tier.
You forgot to mention that a properly spaced, hit lag canceled F-air is COMPLETELY safe on shield, even powershield. The amount of shield/hit stun this move does is ridiculous, even if you power shield it.
yes but there is a 1-frame window for it and it's pretty impractical because of that
Emmett Christenson It is not impractical, it's just a timing and muscle memory thing. Our top 8 Cloud main in our local area does it consistently, And if a 1 frame input was so impractical, why is perfect pivoting so useful? That's also down to muscle memory, and I've gotten to a point where I can consistently perfect pivot in a match to space better.
CanadianBaconPwnage Actually pivots are 1 frame in melee and you can piviot non 1 frame i melee its just it goes so little when not 1 framed. Perfect pivots in smash 4 is the same way but the non perfect pivots go closer to the one frame then in melee. 1 frame is hella hard to hit all the time
+CanadianBaconPwnage You can't Hitlag cancel on shield lol, The reason why hitlag canceling works is because your character retains momentum in hitlag, shield lag does not do this.
+Emmett Christenson it's not a 1-frame window it can be done at any point of the attack, it's just easier and more noticeable on the first frame of a move
+USERNAME_69_420 correct on melee pivots, Smash 4 pivots are a 4 frame window (different distanced based on the frame timing)
+DATDUMBDOG that's a different mechanic
CanadianBaconPwnage I think you are thinking of frame canceling
cloud's main weakness was SUPPOSED to be his recovery, but they decided to give him villager's up b for free if he ever happened to press down B
Yeah no where close
plus his normal up b isn't even that bad compared to others
WIllIam Obed His up b won't snap onto the ledge, he can't even tech after a certain amount of frames, and it's vertical distance is mediocre. It's pretty bad
Chipotle Williams little mac's up b doesn't snap to the ledge and it goes less than half the distance of cloud's
WIllIam Obed ya but mac at least can do his jolt Haymarker move (whatever it's called) to snap to the side of the stage. I'm not arguing that macs recovery is bad (because it is) but at least he has more options than cloud normal up b.
He has a bad recovery, and loses a couple of matchups. He isn't the best right now, at least in my opinion.
Wall jump helps with recovery, and it isn't too bad in my opinion.
He's top 3 dude. He's literally the second best character according to the tier list.
I think he's third or fourth imo. Also, that "official" tier list is considered by many to be inaccurate.
The tier list definitely becomes less and less accurate as the meta evolves. In this case, very fearful people have developed an anti-cloud meta. While he's still a strong character, everyone else knows how to beat him out very well.
It's just that cloud is low skil-high reward ulike other top tiers
I really hope Smash Ultimate doesn't have these unbalanced monsters. Bayo and Cloud basically ruined my enjoyment of the game and damaged the competitive scene, and if Ultimate releases and we get the same stupid meta again, I think I'll move to a different franchise.
Lardo137 Well limit now only has 15 seconds before it disappears completely.
Lardo137 well cloud and bayo definitely got hit. I still personally really like Cloud's kit but I can see how much weaker he's gotten.
That intro was very acurate to how I feel when I find one online
I'm a Cloud main and even I have to admit that he is too good. Whenever I win with Cloud, I actually feel bad unless my opponent also uses a top-tier like Rosalina or Ryu.
Finishing Touch's frame data is not very good. The hitbox is out for 4 frames, comes out on frame 16, and has 60 frames of punishability. It's pretty useless unless you want to look flashy.
Also, D-air is not safe on shield; it has quite some landing lag and next to no horizontal range.
Emmett Christenson I wouldn't say it's useless, you can kill super early with it if you get a hard read, where cross slash or any other punish you can think of wouldn't even come close to killing. Since it launches up it also isn't reliant on being near the edge. The frame data is what balances it, unlike his other bullshit limit specials.
Finishing Touch has no use when you take Limit Cross Slash into consideration. Limit Cross Slash has way better frame data and is millions of times safer on block or miss. Finishing Touch does have high reward but too much risk for it to be useable outside of guaranteed combos and shield-break punishes. Also, if you're going to try to read something with Cloud, it's better to use a safer move, which in turn can give enough percent to let Limit Cross Slash kill.
Emmett Christenson That's the thing, the reason people hate Cloud is too much reward for so lottle risk.
Merfilicious _ What he lacks in speed compared to super fast moves (compared to super fast characters like Shiek and Diddy) he makes up for with his huge disjointed range, and power.
Oh boy, a Cloud rant. I wonder what he's gonna talk about first. Upair juggling? Limit camping? Cross Slash doing way too much damage?
*Jab*
Oh yes let's talk about Cloud's most average move first that's a great idea
Abtin you smell like a cloud main but if you main falco *highfive he is my secondary
Yea jab isn't even all that good it's 4 frames compared to most good characters having one that's 1-3 frames
Emmett Christenson I think the thing that annoys him about it is compared to other super fast jabs (ZSS and Shiek, for example) it has really good range.
Get Rekt Scrub untrue, it has average range except for the last hit, which is easily punishable on shield.
Abtin Compared to Shiek and ZSS who have awful jab range to balance how fast they are.
It's the dream character. Huge hitboxes, range, frame data, broken mechanic, this is amazing.
Finally, someone that agrees that Cloud is broken as shit.
Mrrglegrrgle Gaming he is not even top five dude I only play cloud for fun I play sonic and one of sonic's worst mu is cloud but I don't complain about him imo I think cloud is top ten but people just need to get good to understand why he is not that broken
can't b broken when he's 1 of the most gimpable fighters. throw him offstage,interrupt his recovery and/or footstool. next problem.
^ If you let that happen then you don't know how to play cloud. Up-B is another one of all of his giant hitboxes that has high priority.
I know, I even don’t like playing as such an op character
If you pause at 5:59 you can see it doesn't even have to hit the end, in fact, it only requires you to be hit by it to get spiked and have some 12 year old save you as a replay for their montage with nightcore music in
Man, this comment section is so mean-spirited. He's saying Cloud is one of the best characters in the game! That's his opinion, stop getting mad about it!
I guess that's true, but I thought the video was more of a joke than anything. It felt over exaggerated on purpose for humor sake.
Well, I guess I'm just easily entertained.
Kyle Ruggieri Indeed you are
Thanks Wicked Bat... 😒
***** but thanks for real!
Kyle Ruggieri Anytime! 😄
Love where this series is going ❤️️
Why let limit charge when inflicting damage on him?!
Yeah, it seems extremely stupid to reward someone for making mistakes.
Exactly, and for someone with such utility and reward, Little Mac’s KO is far more inferior
"i am tired of this 5.99 anime characters i am going back to brawl" jajajajajajaja that is so facking hilarious because is true jajajaja
I've just started the video, but isn't the whole point of Jab on a lot of characters just to swiftly stop a punish from your opponent? Maybe it's because I main Ike and he's kind of similar to Cloud and he has a fast First Hit Jab, but I use his Jab for those situations that I'm at a disadvantage REALLY often. Of course Ike has a lot more lag on most of his moves so it makes sense to give him this quick "panic tool".
Main problems I have with cloud is his Limit Cross Slash being almost unpunishable (how is that fair?) and his kinda ridiculous Up-air. Other than those he's sorta manageable.
it's just little mac with a sword.
throw him off stage and u win
facts
Sergio Sanchez with a chargeable ko punch. And better recovery. and projectile. and less landing lag.
I don't have issues with against him. In fact I like fighting him for how simplistically complex u have to play to beat him. Maybe kuz how my play style natually counters most of wat cloud does and maybe kuz clouds options r just to predictable I can predicted and prepare a hard punish on them. And yes I do go to tournaments.
+Sergio Sanchez, Who do you play? Cuz cloud does have even and bad match ups just like every character. This game has always been more about match ups over tier.
I play mew2, mario, and sheik. Mainly mew2, and ppl say it's a bad mu 4 mew2
I have a bunch of characters I would love for you to rant about lol you’re the best ranter and earned my sub
Cloud is if Marth and roy got sweet spot and tipper every single time and even then cloud has more damage output.
Merfilicious _ Actually its about the same. Clouds hits have very close (if not more) damage output that a all tippered marth would do. the only exception being nair and down tilt.
The damage yes, the knockback no(yes I know you weren't talking about knockback I can just tell he thinks no because of the ridiculous knockback on Marth's tipper)
oh gotcha. f smash yeah duh. but bair idk? clouds bair usually kills fairly early. and fair is iffy too since cloud's spikes. The others tippers arent used as kill options as much.
Leo thinks Marth is better than Cloud
Celtic Wind Truer words have never been said
100
percent
agree.
Every Cloud will get me super salty. That's the type of thing that makes me Zelda Teleport Spam.
PK_Water You can't do that without plattforms
PK_Water going to the edge isn't very good
Learn the matchup ;)
PK_Water Dude learning the matchup isnt dropping character its learning how to play against cloud. also this video was hella mis-informed
USERNAME_69_420 My mains dont do well against Cloud. Even if I learned the matchup it wouldnt do shit. Also your username includes 69 and 420 so why am I replying anyways
I hope this is just a bad joke, because Finishing Touch is easily punishable, and his forward aeriel is very slow and has lots of end lag, so you don't want to be going off stage to use it. Down aeriel can also be punished on shield.
XenoSmasher Dair auto cancels, and fair auto cancels.
XenoSmasher if he misses it.
Sissy Longlegs :D fair doesnt auto cancel lmao
Might I have some of that salt for my fries?
Cloud: LIMITS ARE MEANT TO BE BROKEN
This ones been coming for a while, no wait, got two that are needed. A. Luigi: neutral A. B. Yoshi: too much lag time and other various reasons. You work on it my bro.
It was intended to be a party game
Andrew Kornish LOL
Andrew Kornish Nintendo's idea of "party games" is messed up xD. Their main focus is always rage. *cough* Mario Party *cough* Bayonetta and Cloud *cough*
Well then, this party game ended up by being, by far, the most balanced fighting game to ever exist in relation to the size of the roster. Aside from a couple overpowered characters, the 56 characters in smash are almost all viable. Quite the party game.
Andrew Kornish Cloud is basically smash 4's version of brawl Meta Knight. He isn't fun to play against casually or competitively
+Ryan Friedberg - I'm sorry that you're bad at the game.
I dont know how I stumbled opun this channel, but i luv it, great vid.
I know you were kinda joking but you still said a lot of misleading stuff (or straight up lied) about Cloud to make him look more op that he actually is. I know everybody say this but you just need to learn the match up. Is not like you're playing against a top player if you lose every time against Cloud you're probably doing something wrong.
i immediately thumbs upped for the intro, because it's actually me on for glory whenever i see that fricker show up.
It’s in the title of the moves.
You put limits on Cloud, he WILL BREAK THEM.
3:42 Isn't that the same with literally every other character who can charge an attack (Lucario/MewTwo/Robin/etc)?
"Loses to a mario main" lemme just pick cloud
*Wins immediately*
clouds so scary at night I look at the moon and sometimes see his nair hotbox
ROFL I'll see you in court cuz that hoola hoop comparison nearly killed me!
I come from 2021. So I have good and bad news.
Good news: Cloud in new Smash Bros game is nerfed.
Bad news: we have Sephiroth.
Cloud is stupidly gimpable, easily edgegaurded, has an untechable situation on his up B, and his up b does not clip to the ledge
And that is literally the only weakness of Cloud. Everything else about him is top tier. Not to mention how easy it is to play him.
XD *Cloud main*
sooooooo he has a bad up-b?
*croccity* Yes it doesn’t clip to the edge. It is only good when you have limit. I’d argue that non-limit up b is the third worst recovery.
behind what?
5:29 - It cracks me up that he's talking about follow-ups and lack of lag when he doesn't auto-cancel it once.
😏 I see what u meant earlier. Good job.
Why did I laugh so hard at the intro.
(Buster sword comes through my door)GENKAI WO
ME:OH NOOOOO
4:09 what about using projectiles?
There were so many things wrong with this video... as someone who knows a lot about the character. First off, finishing touch has a ton of lag and most of Clouds moves are easily punishable, especially if you anticipate him going for a jab. Also, FT and forward smash are both really slow and easy to avoid if you know what you're doing. Cloud is top tier, but exaggerating all his strengths and ignoring his weaknesses to make him look broken just isn't right or fair.
Top tier players like ZeRo day that Cloud is a good match up for most characters, but that’s because he’s broken as hell.
Oh my god...can the people that main Cloud and know his background and games...please comment. And I'm sorry if you get bashed on playing him because you love ff. Zack didn't for this shit.
Endless Void Zack is cloud but 10x better never forget zack
Opinion. Cloud's and FF7's popularity is the only reason Zack even got his own game.
***** But in story, its vice versa.
Cloud could have had Meteorain in one way or another.
Isaak Beckman What do you mean?
1:34 why do you think? Both of the limit kills you showed were both easy in the air kills
Man, that "Trump is as bad as Hilary" joke aged like warm milk.
You forgot to give Cloud MK's jump total
What's 5:07 from by the way?
Screw off my baby cloud!
eh vids ok funny but has a lot of false info, finishing touch has over 60 frames of ending lag, most of clouds moves are punishable by shield, forward air is not just better then marios it has way more startup, Cloud is still top tier but its high risk high reward and some people just like the character, if he was broken he would have some tournament results, please stop throwing out the word broken. Tho still funny and up air and limit side b hitboxes are still to big but the character still has high risk which no one seems to take into account
do you know anything about cloud.
What was that first clip from? Also, DAT LAUGH XD (5:17)
That alone made me sub to you xD
I think you're taking this a bit overboard, and if I mained Bowser Jr., I'd probably hate Cloud and we all know why. Regardless, I do believe Cloud is top tier, but first, his fair isn't good, hitbox doesn't last, and it comes out frame 16. Secondly, you claimed Finishing Touch to be unpunishable, which is completely false, since it deals 1% of shield stun, and it has much more startup than rest, frame 16 as opposed to frame 2. You didn't mention his poor grab game either, but this is a rant, so you don't have to say his weaknesses. Regardless, I just want people to be quiet because I feel like Cloud will get nerfed by Nintendo on the Switch because a bunch of whiner babies told Sakurai, so don't give them a reason please, thanks and bye.
It's not "whiny", it is justified criticism and complaints about a character who's main weaknesses are easily overlooked when you give him chargeable limit. At least he is confirmed to be nerfed.
"Limits are meant to be broken" -Cloud Reveal Trailer 2016.
I use Cloud as a secondary and I just wanna say Cloud has end lag at the end of Finishing Touch and he has a bad recovery that doesn't latch to the ledge without limit, just saying.
I wish they would’ve just left him alone. Having a 15 second duration on Limit Break is all he needed, and MAYBE slightly nerf nair, now nair is next to useless
I want to hear a rant about brawl meta knight
6:44 why not sprinkle in marths grab range from melee
He would be easy to balance. Make him slow! Realistically, that giant sword would be making so much air resistance! Make his attacks have longer end lag, or start up lag, or lag in general.
Could you uhhh... make a rant about how overly nerfed Cloud is in Smash Ultimate? Kinda wanna get a Buff Cloud movement started 😬😶
Yeah. I need cloud to be better.
Issac Santana sorry but he deserved all those nerfs for ruining doubles.
@@voltingmaster5458 no
Issac Santana Cloud deserved those nerfs, Deal With It!
@@voltingmaster5458 Not ALL of them
Ur anger feels my Cloud-maining ass with so much pride
This was beyond funny and I am so happy you made this!
Try Lucario, seem like no one use him at all.
Missingnumber Gallade,I'll save myself the embarrassment of charging Aura Spheres and waiting for an open window to attack.
Because he’s boring and annoying
@@gbird. git gud
@@Chadmiral his neutral is not just charging aura sphere it's like saying marth's neutral is spamming f smash and getting the tipper
You don't say...
He should also have a Monado Art that combines the advantages gained from all Monado Arts into one, permanent, Super Monado Art.
Kirby was a mid tier in brawl and got nerfed when put in smash 4....
WHYYYYY?!?!?!?
Other characters in the same tier or lower got amazing buffs and hell, characters like ZSS and Diddy where already good, but they got buffed again in smash 4 like fuck bro, cut some Kirby players some slack...
Where are our buffs? We have like 35 changes, but like half are small smash attack changes like why? What about air mobility? Aerial frame data?
Mewtwo was low tier and people were like "ugh, this isn't true to the character, mewtwo is super powerful and shit" well guess what guys?? Kirby is pretty much a god in his series. Why sakurai, why treat your own baby like a pink turd?
I think kirby is realy good. hit that fully charged hammer at 60% and their eating dirt
Jordan Sweeney nah, TBH hitting with a fully charged hammer at 30% will KO them, but it's so hard to hit. That's not even my biggest issue though, he's been nerfed so hard from brawl and he wasn't even a great character. He needs better frame data and his hammer isn't broken or anything, is just make it faster and give him more reward as an uncharged hammer KOs later than all of his smash attacks
SAMUEL REAGAN Jiggs have MELEE 1st of all, 2nd I know, like duh, Jiggs is worse than Kirby, hell, a lot of characters are worse than Kirby, but do I main them??? No. hell, this man did a video on bowser Jr. who is not the worst, but could be better. Are you gonna tell me Kirby should be better??? Should he stay crappy? He wasn't balanced very well to begin with.
Samuel, I think the moral of the story here is that they should just make the bad characters better overall.
im happy with the balance of the game to be honest lads... jiggly puff is a realy good character. using his neutral air offstage is realy dirty people just drop to their death. jiggs is just basic as fuck and boring im glad hes not over used
You forgot one detail. In all his moves when his swird glows green it destroys projectile attacks.
0:11 Death perfectly described by speech.
You and so many more people love to throw around the term "broken" and not know what it actually means. Cloud is a very good character, not going to disagree, but there are many ways to play around the character and exploit his weaknesses. Let's be real for a sec if Cloud truly was broken he'd have MAJOR results, period. Not only did this video have hella false information in it, but at this Point you're just shitting on a character 👎
PokeScene Exactly! I give all Cloud mains respect. People just like to say he's broken probably because they can't beat a Cloud. Cloud mains play for high reward, high risk. I main Dr. Mario, and it's not hard to beat a Dr. Mario. But I can still beat a character like Cloud with a low tier! And I fight against great Clouds! Auto cancels and Up Airs all around! So if I can simply beat a top tier with a low tier, then people who say Cloud is broken are just bad at the game. Simple as that.
Finally someone who understands
I mained cloud before I knew he was good. He was my first DLC, and I just played him. I had no idea he was OP.
same still do main him, never expected this just liked how the character played
I dont think its that way. Just think about it. Most top players play with the same character since the game release. Ok people dropped their main when bayonetta came out but cloud is not what bayo was. Thats why there arent many top players maining cloud. And you have to see his point. Cloud has really great advantages against other characters and only one or two exploitable weaknesses.
WHAT MOVIE IS THAT AT 0:03 JASON? IM LIKE WHAT IS THAT MOVIE AND NONE OF ARE NOT EVEM TALKING ABOUT SOMEONE TELL WHAT MOVIE IS THAT I know the movie now. search here's Johnny.
Cloud was and is the first and only Smash character I've ever hated
Zaire Hamilton,Mario,Cloud,Luigi,the list goes on for me.
Elijah Bradshaw why Luigi and not bayo
Caleb,because Bayonetta isn't as much of a scrub-food character unlike Luigi,who's Up-B can take a stock easily,I can't even remember how many FG Luigis spammed a bombardment of fireballs that forced me to approach and shield,allowing them to go in for the typical "Grab&DownThrow,F-Air,F-Air,Up-Air,Up-Air,Up-B".So I say this character is ridiculously easy to use,Bayonetta however...she requires skill,but is still somewhat scrub-friendly.
Caleb Luigi is one of the most dishonest characters
5:06 the hitbox that makes almost everyone cry.
Oh yeah...that's some good salt....
5:05
what's the source for this? It's hilarious!
Look at this Dude meme
Also I love to play against Cloud it feels like a challenge for a change
Joshed George yeah it's eather get juggled and die at 70% cause of limit or gimp cloud at 20% and win
+Ken Berndt Or git gud and win like a normal person and not because the opponent was bad
"git gud" only goes so far.
+Joshed George getting gimped as Cloud doesn't mean your Cloud is bad
+Ken Berndt
either*
that roast of Cloud's N-Air was funnier to me than it should've been xD props to Prince Royale on that
Looks like someone got beat by too many FG Clouds lmao.
Clouds up air. I can deal with just about every other thing with Cloud. But the up air. Dear lord the up air
Lmao I love listening to people rant about my main. You manage to make this fun and I did laugh quite a bit. Take my like!
KrAceZ XD me too
4:07
projectiles??
RANT about Kirby next...
He was only good in smash 64, so why not have him be good again? Why do people hate him? Like wtf
Meth Lab Madter ikr? It's your baby, get over your "I don't want bias claims against my character" even though mario is great and he was prob told to make MARIO good cuz he's MARIO and blah blah blah, so much for no bias
He was only bad in Melee
startmirca he's ok, but so is bowser Jr and he mad a RANT about him
no in brawl he wasn't really bad he was fine
startmirca ok, maybe bad isn't the right word for him. Yes, he's not the worst and hell prob mid tier, but let's say he's underwhelming...to play.