Thanks so much for this comparison! I’m presently feeding my WiiM Mini stream to a Topping stack, so I will be upgrading to the Pro… … however, the additional point I want to make to your review is how well the WiiM(s) work with JRiver. I found the WiiM sluggish with generic DLNA, but I believe the WiiMs allow for connecting with the JRiver catalog, rather than the file structure & individual files’ metadata. The result is 10x quicker for loading, syncing and selection. It allows for using JRiver’s own app (iOS & Android) and pointing the app’s (i.e., JR server) output to the WiiM… easy, peasy…
I too have a Wiim Mini using an external DAC and had wondered if upgrading to a different streamer would make any difference. I will now be upgrading to the Wiim Pro too. I'll have to explore JRiver as I don't know much about it.
@@pcm9969 You may find its initial cost a bit expensive, but if your library is large, its well worth the dough and its cost is much less than Roon for the same functionality. I do wish JRiver would update its forum however, as it is access to JRiver’s support team and is difficult to search
I just wanted to say thank you. I have watched several reviews of the Wiim's. You are the only person so far who has actually answered my questions and compared the streaming functions. Seriously you wouldn't imagine it would be that hard to find an answer to a common sense question. Yet your the first that I have found. I greatly appreciate it and your other work.
I had searched all over to find a direct comparison of ONLY the streaming performance using an external DAC. Like you, I thought this would be an obvious video to produce. Thanks to Lachlan, we finally have one.
I'm glad it was helpful. The WiiMs have to go back, but I now know that the streaming stage of the DMP-A6 is equivalent to the WiiM Pro/Pro Plus so I can use that as a reference point.
There isn't a huge range of DAC types at that price - they'll all be one or other variant of a chip-based Delta Sigma DAC which means you're not having to consider R2R or Multibit in the equation. I've got a bunch of DACs listed here in price order. I recommend all of them: bit.ly/RecDACs
A few things to mention: the Pro Plus weight is partly due to extra ballast in the base, the Pro and Pro Plus also now run Squeezelite so you can stream to them from LMS; the Mini does not do Chromecast or Squeezelite.
Very interesting, Mr Cool. I had a Squeezebox touch, which, for a while, was the bees knees of streaming. Its good to know Squeezelite endures. Incidentally, I had the Touch for years before, watching Darko, I realised that the lovely blue shade on the chrome finish was a protective film which should be removed.
Finally, a review that compares the pure digital outputs using them as streamer only. Strange as it sounds for such a popular streamer, I could never find a clear answer on that until now. Thank you!
There are settings options for input and output quality ranging from 16/44 to 24/192 at least. I was just watching this review and did inquire with the channel owner whether or not that was considered because maybe the explanation of the difference in sound could have related to Different default settings for each device out-of-the-box, where if equalized the expected digital output similarities for bit perfect sound would be no different. And maybe that would still not be the case. I don’t really know but that’s why I asked the general owner whether that had been considered, because in another review somebody had shown The app in her face with the various selections, and when they first open the app to show during the video it was not set to the highest resolution, and that may have been out of the box or just through their normal use where it was arbitrarily at one setting that they later changed to another. Could explain why they were otherwise unexplained differences in digital outputs or maybe they were all the same set values and still sound differently. So I’ve inquired for clarification, because sometimes those subtle differences, if not deep into the Settings, as a user can result in unexplained outcomes.
Sorry that I missed your comment on the first time around, audiorick! The differences in sound are due to the circuit quality within the different devices (power filtering, conversion from data to optical output, etc.) as all settings were identical.
This is the type of review I've been searching forever for! Every streamer review I've seen before only compares the streamers using their internal DACs. None of the reviews compared streamers using the same external DAC. I have a Wiim Mini that I was considering upgrading and wanted to know if I would get better sound quality using my own external DAC. You answered that question! I am looking forward to your upcoming dedicated streamer comparison. Great job!
First off--amazing video! Thank you! Beginner question: How does one "bypass" the Wiim DACS? (if connecting to an external DAC)? Just use the optical out (to the ext Dac)? What happens if one uses the RCA out to an ext Dac?
Glad you liked the video. When it comes to the connection and bypassing the DAC, using the RCA outputs requires the WiiM's DAC to decode the streamed audio from data to an audio signal (analog). Using the optical or coaxial output will automatically bypass the WiiM DAC and take the data straight from the incoming streamed signal to let your external DAC handle the decoding.
I'm looking forward to your comparison of the Wiim streamers to high end stand-alone streamers. Would also be interested to have you compare Wiim streamers to the Ifi Zen. Thanks for doing reviews that focus on sound!
I switched from an Ifi Zen Stream to a Wiim Pro about 8 months ago and overall I am happier with the Wiim Pro. I find it to be more stable and the Software is much better. And in Canada the Wiim Pro is less than half the price of the Zen Stream. I ran both streamers into a Denafrips Ares II Dac, and would use Tidal Connect and Qobuz through BubbleUPNP. The Zen Stream was always flaky with Tidal Connect. It would just randomly disconnect from it in between songs. This would occur when it was it connected to my network either wirelessly or via RJ45 cable so I don't think it was a network issue. Never have any problems with the Wiim Pro though. I also had to -re-setup the Zen Stream occassionally when I was running it on the wireless network. For some reason it would just lose it's settings. And the setup software for it isn't great. I couldn't notice a difference in audio quality between the two when connecting via SPDIF to the DAC. The main pros of the Ifi Zen for me was the USB output, USB port to plug in a flashdrive or NAS, and it's DSD support, but overall for everyday use I would still choose the Wiim Pro for it's Software, stability and ease of use.
@mattsev9134 I have the same setup as you and agree with Zen stream has connection issues but I think that the Zen provides a much better audio experience. I am running the Plus with a Allo Nirvana and the Zen with a ifi ipower 15v. I will try the Plus one more time.
Unfortunately, the local distributor has blocked multiple attempts by iFi to get products to me for review. I'd love to compare the Zen Stream, but it's unlikely at this point. 😞
I've watched quite a few of these Wiim reviews now, and you are the only reviewer to provide a definitive answer as to whether there is any difference between the digital output of the three models. Bravo, and thanks very much! 👍😁
I just recently posted a comment or inquiry on this. I did see with another reviewer that there are settings to adjust input in output between such settings 16/44 or 24/192 and I observed when a different reviewer open the app using the mini the default seem to have opened at 16/44 for digital output book. I think he change it up to 24/192 so if that’s the case, perhaps in this review that was a step not taken or the default between devices of different price points start at different default settings worth considering so I’m curious in
I believe there are input settings options that are similar to those mentioned here elsewhere in this other review or in probably to help information for the product
Also: Amazon for mini says : Music input Up to 192 kHz, 24-bit Music output Up to 192 kHz, 24-bit (Bit perfect output, i.e., output matches input source format)
All settings were identical across each device and they were all set for bit perfect output. If you scan through the comments here, you'll find multiple users who've heard the same as me with the Mini and Pro.
thanks for this review! Read some ppl saying the A6 "streams better" and my doubt flags were going up, but reassuring to hear someone neutrally compare the two who I trust. This then leaves me with the question: does ANYTHING stream better than the Wiim Pro?
I've just received the Lumin D3 today (about $2,500 USD) and my VERY quick testing this afternoon would suggest that it might be a little better than the DMP-A6/A8 streaming stage (and therefore the WiiM Pro/Pro Plus too). It was a pretty subtle difference though so a much more thorough session is needed.
I just got the Wiim Pro. So far love it. I have a great DAC and needed a way to stream Hi Res into it, this works great. I have Amazon and Tidal, this works with both and a bunch of others. The pro has better connectivity tan the mini, the Pro plus was more than I needed, so I went with the Pro.
Have you found that when using Amazon music through the app that there is a delay of about 5-10 seconds when changing songs? That has been the only thing that has bothered me so far. I get around that by using Google home app and using my phones Amazon music app.
I bought the WiiM Pro a few days before the WiiM Pro Plus was released. Did I make a mistake? I use a Schiit external DAC for most listening and have no plans to use the analog inputs. You answered every question I had about upgrading. The WiiM Pro is the best value for my use case. The lower WiiM Mini performance with digital outputs was also interesting. Thanks for doing a comprehensive and intelligent review.
Huuuge thank you, especially for mini \ pro comparison. Priceless knowledge for caraudio, where I'm going to use it. Definitely will give Wiim pro a chance and removed mini from amzn basket
It's a pity you didn't compare them with LPS. I have Pro and Pro+, I noticed a positive difference with LPS, a more pleasant, more musical sound. Maybe next time, when comparing with Lumin D3? just a small proposition $300 [Pro with LPS] Vs $3000 streamer.
Yes, I might add a power supply for the Lumin D3 review (if I haven't sent back the WiiMs before then). I didn't add additional power supplies for this video because I didn't want to overcomplicating things. 🙂
Outstanding as always Lachlan. Finally, someone whose opinion I value has reviewed the WiiM trifecta in one video. I have both the Pro & Pro+ and totally agree with your findings. For critical listening, you need to run to an external DAC but for anything else these rock. The WiiM app is updated every week at least and is an excellent interface. Thank you and keep up the great work.
I'm glad you liked the review! I completely agree that these are perfect for anything short of high end critical listening. And even then, just adding an external DAC takes them to the next level.
This was such a well-structured review, extremely clear and communicated many things I wasn’t aware of from reading / watching other articles and videos. Sounds like the Pro is more than good enough for simply outputting to my soundbar system, with scope to then add a DAC, active speakers & high-end amp down the line. Thanks so much!
I went from a Wim pro to an Eversolo a8, although the a6 would be comparable in features. I have a large digital library and do not want to keep it on a NAS turned on all the time. Also I use KKBox as they have a massive variety of Asian songs. The Eversolo allows me to play my library directly from the player in an SSD and it also supports KKBox streaming, which was what I needed. The dac is also nice when I wish for a different signature. The Eversolo display is nice but I mostly only find it useful to observe channel imbalances. Whether the imbalance is coming from the source or the speaker itself. I use horn speakers so placement is very sensitive. Overall both Eversolo and the wiim app have their quirks but they are both intuitive and stable. The Eversolo is a streamer, dac, music player and pre-amp built in one. If you're doing purely streaming and the Wiim supports the services, then the Wiim is best suited.
Сдается мне что ты брешешь и linkplay тебе заплатила, ведь если расхвалишь wiim mini то более дорогие устройства не будут продаваться, а правда в том что ты не услышишь разницы между ними
thanks, that was exactly what I needed to know, I was thinking of purchasing eversolo A6, Now I see don't need anymore since I have the wiim pro and it already gives what it's necessary
One of the best comparison videos I have watched. Excellent detail, presented in a calm educated manner. You never lost my attention. I have subscribed and look forward to your other videos. Glad to have found you! !
Thank you for the comprehensive comparison of the trio's features and sound quality. Your review was excellent. While it's reassuring that the streaming sound quality and app interface of Wiim Pro / Pro+ are comparable to the DMP-A6, for a complete replacement, I'd hope that Wiim could incorporate USB in/out 3.0 ports. This addition would support PCM higher than 24/192 and DSD, as well as local music playback-features I find essential. I personally don't prioritize the display, UV meter, or other technical aspects found in the A6, but the absence of USB connections for these features is a limiting factor. Moreover, I also like the PEQ in the Wiim Pro / Pro+, not available in the everSolo until the much pricier A8 model. This creates an immediate $1k+ price saving that I could use to invest a top notch r2r DAC such as Gustard R26 or Pontus II.
I believe the DMP-A6 has just received a firmware update to add the EQ functions (I haven't confirmed this yet). As for adding USB, that's a more complex addition to the outputs and is why other devices are larger and cost more than the WiiMs. I agree that it would be valuable, but it would also change the value proposition of the WiiMs.
I have a wiim pro, BlueSound node (latest rev) and Sonore Ultra rendu w/upgraded LPS. All three are fed to external dacs. The wiim pro I think o got for $120 a year ago on sale is fantastic. The SQ is great and native steaming of amazon is helpful. There are puts and takes to all 3 but the wiim can’t be beat the price.
This is the only review I've seen (and I have searched far and wide!) that has compared ONLY the digital output performance of streamers using an external DAC. All other reviews I've seen have only compared them using their own built it DACs. As I have my own external DAC, those reviews were worthless to me.
Thank you for the detailed comparison. One additional detail - if I am using the Pro or the Pro Plus only like streamers then does the EQ and the PEQ work? Or they work only for the analog outputs?
I hear folks in more than a few forums and here on TH-cam bashing these WiiM streamers, mainly due to their low price. How can something this cheap sound so good, it is not possible they say. Bullocks! Even their internal DAC is more than suitable for general listening, add an external DAC and a linear power supply, and I would put the WiiM Pro up against streamers costing thousands of dollars. Then the other advantage to the WiiM products, is the easily accessible 10 band graphic equalizer, I do not know of any streamer manufacturer offering this feature. I will keep my WiiM Pro and Mini, and I have had owned a few streamers, the WiiM products are simply outstanding, especially for the money if you are in the market for a simple streamer.
I agree that they're great value for money all the way up to when your DAC reaches about the $700 USD mark. After that, you can definitely do better, but it also depends on how focussed your listening will be and what value you place on the app experience (which is excellent for the WiiM)
@@PassionforSound The WiiM app is KING in my book if you are looking to simply stream music. And I am not talking about NAS servers and all of that, simple streaming. And yes, right out of the box the WiiM is not going to quite get there, but with a little tweaking here and there... With the right power supply, say JRiver, decent cables, etc, I would put the WiiM Pro and Pro Plus up against streamers up to $5000 USD. If you have "Golden Ears", well, you will disagree. But for the most part, for the money, the WiiM can easily compete with the big boys.
It's not so much about golden ears as the level of the rest of your gear. Your point holds true though that they're an excellent device with an even better app.
This review was unbelievably comprehensive and the only video I've found with the information I actually needed. My use case is adding Airplay 2 with an external dac. THANK YOU
I don't have a WiiM here to test, but there shouldn't be a significant difference. Theoretically, optical should isolate the DAC from any noise coming from the WiiM so that's probably the best bet with all else being equal.
Adding a duplicate comment outside of the thread above So I hooked up the wiim pro and am not in love. I may have an issue. It is definitely more clear and precise. The problem is the highs from my tweeter though very very clear are also a bit thin and harsh, almost sibilent. With the mini the sound is smooth and pleasant. I don't know if I have a problem with the new streamer, or if the new streamer is pointing out flaws with my speakers that were not noticeable before. For reference, my system after the wiim is a Geshelli j2s 4499/sparkos, Rotel A11 Tribute, Wharfedale Evo 4.1, SVS Micro. Thoughts?
I'll answer here too for others who might not read the longer thread. This sounds like the Mini's smoothness was masking an issue with your system. It's very hard to say where the problem specifically lies though. Could be anything from the speakers to the interconnects to the room, etc.
I don't have the issues you spoke of with the WiiM mini with either my SMSL SU-1 DAC, or my Schiit Modi 3. I listen to all types of music with clean, clear, realistic music. To each his on.
Pro and Pro Plus have EQ: 10 band GEQ and 4 band PEQ. Wiim is working on a 10 band PEQ. Eversolo hasn't as yet fully developed the EQ in its A8 device but will eventually get there. For me the main added value in the Eversolo DMP-A6 lies in its interface, the 4 Tb internal SSD AND the fact that it supports Apple Music.
Excellent comparison! I'm planning on buying a WiiM to get Spotify in to my 30 year old Bang & Olufsen Beocenter 9500. I'm going to use the analogue output from WiiM and not an external DAC. Is it worth getting the Pro over the Mini when it is connected to such an old system?
Glad you liked the video. Yes, definitely go for the Pro. Even though it's old, the B&O gear will have plenty of resolution to reveal the difference between the Mini and Pro. You could probably even justify going to the Pro Plus if you wanted to.
"Everything else is a ripoff" Is hyperbole. There are features missing in the wiim products that some peopel will want. they don't have USB out and don't support NAA so if you want to use HQ player you can't use a Wiim streamer. if the wiim does everything you want it's a great product. If you want to play music at sample rates higher than 192k you need USB.
Thank you for the streaming to external dac comparisons. Everyone else says it doesn't matter as long as you're using an external dac. However in my very neutral and revealing system, I'm using a Wiim mini with an external dac. I knew that something was wrong with my system, but couldn't put my finger on it. Not until you said "thick sounding" that the light bulb came on. I have tinkered for months trying to get the details, transients, and subtleties, into the sound my system is capable of. I'm not happy with other reviewers stating that it's an optical 24/192 stream so it doesn't matter. I'm ordering a pro today. Thanks again
I think you will be happy with the more expensive item because that’s how our brains deal with experiences that are the same but priced differently. However, if you arrange for a friend to run a randomised blind test you might enjoy finding that there is no actual difference, just as there is no difference when a photo is emailed to you from someone with an expensive or a cheap laptop - the photo file is the same.
That's not accurate and is oversimplifying/overgeneralising. Firstly, as I understand it, real time music playback (as opposed to downloading a file and then opening it) doesn't allow for the same error correction and (in the case of music) avoidance of noise introduced in the conversion process from data to digital audio output to analog audio output. Then, as we get to price and expectations, people will prefer a more expensive product of both are the same and they've spent their own money on it, but they will also have higher expectations of it if it is meant to be better/different so this creates an offset of the initial bias you've raised. Then, there's the fact that this bias won't apply to people (like me) who are trying the device without any invested money and who have no incentive for one to be better than the other.
@@PassionforSound The price/ quality effect has been routinely demonstrated for years. Decades ago as part of undergraduate studies we replicated a standard experiment with wine where subjects were given 3 samples with no other information except retail price. Our results were the same as the original study. Almost all preferred the most or least expensive, not the middle. All except one expressed their opinion with conviction and could describe differences. The samples for each subject had actually been poured from the same bottle and there was no difference. If you arrange a proper blind test with another person randomising the playback then you will have a better idea if what you perceive is genuine.
I've used the WiiM pro for about a year. Recently, I've found myself listening less. A week ago, I switched out the WiiM for my older Yamaha WXC-50. I really wasn't expecting to hear a big difference, certainly not an improvement but, I don't think I'll be going back to the WiiM, at least for a while. Overall I just like the sound of the Yamaha a little better. A tiny bit more detail in all aspects. I should say I use both as a streamer only into a Bifrost2 DAC. Perhaps it's just my system or that the Yamaha is 3 times the price of the WiiM.
That makes sense and is a really nice example of the fact that the better the power supply, filtering and (maybe) clocking of the signal, the better the end result. Happy listening!
I have the Wiim Mini into an SMSL SU-1 external dac. I’m not sure I’d be able to hear the difference if I replaced the Mini with a Pro just for the upgraded gpu, especially since I’m running apple music via airplay2 which isn’t bitperfect lossless anyway.
Absolutely. Your setup is a perfect example where the Mini is all you need and if you're enjoying it, there's absolutely no reason to spend more money.
Thank you from Sweden!🇸🇪 I have used my Technics SL-G700 as a streamer for Tidal to my Technics SU-R1000. Very expensive gears. But sometimes it have stopped working. I have tried everything to fix the streaming problem with no success. When I bought the Wiim pro plus connected to my SU-R1000 with spdif, I couldn´t be happier. It sound fantastic and all the problems with Tidal and SL-G700 was gone 😀 Now I only use my SL-G700 as an CD/SACD player. The Wiim pro plus as a streamer, software and user interface is so much better.
This by far the best review of the three streamers! I went with the Pro since I own two dacs already. This will be my first streamer so I didn't want to spend to much because in a year there will be another with subwoofer out etc..
I have a whim mini and was thinking of getting the pro plus or a power node by Bluesound. My budget is limited since I retired. But I do have a Hegel H160 and Magnepan 1.7 speakers. Any recommendations ?? I accidentally spelled Wiim wrong,,,,lol
For this excellent low price, I think most people will be using Spotify anyway. It will be fine for a second room or for the wife and kids especially if you are using a digital input on a receiver or a sound bar.
What a great review. Thanks a lot, u did a great job there. As many had and would say the best comparisson of the wiim products so far. Greetings from Colombia.
I have a mini and pro. When I demoed the A6, immediately switched to it and never looked back. I use the mini in my office and the pro in another room connected to active speakers. The A6 ME is my daily streamer connected to a DAC and HP amp.
Have had my pro since March. Had always connected it to one of 3 DACs at any given time. (Audio Alchemy DAC doesn't do HiRes. It's from the 90's) Tried the Line Out and I'm happy to comment how good it sounded in my 2 speaker system.
I just got the Pro Plus. I will be pairing with the Topping E50 to compare the two DACs with my 2-channel system. You say the WiiM does not have an interface however, it is noted as having an excellent software UI that has lots of cross compatibility and a great EQ function. The Plus also comes with the voice remote included. I stream to my office, theater system and bedroom movie system with dedicated Mini PCs. I control them with a wireless keyboard/mouse. I am integrating Google Home with everything soon. I had the Zen Stream/Zen DAC V2 for my 2-channel but traded it for a pair of Klipsch kg4 vintage speakers. The Zen sounds amazing, but I thought I would just get another $250 Mini PC, till I found the Wiim Pro Plus. Love your videos. Thank you!
That will be a VERY interesting comparison! I'd expect the E50 to come out ahead, but it might not... When I mentioned the interface, I was referring to a touch screen with menus, etc. on the device. The app is amazing as you say - one of the very best I've seen.
Yes, at least the EQ will. I don't know how the volume is handled - most DAC chips do this bit-perfectly these days. And with the timing, it's not inter-channel timing with DSP, just inter-device delays so it might not be a problem.
13:35 I have noticed this with the AKM4493S chip in my external DAC too. I have been doing comparisons between that and the Burr Brown in my NAD C338 and it’s less a question of which one I like than which one I dislike less. Either way, the WiiM Pro is on my list and somewhere down the track, the EverSolo.
Yes. Unfortunately, we're a bit limited by some of these DAC chips unless they're really well implemented. Hope you enjoy your upgrades as they happen!
Thanks a lot for all the information and testing you provided! I am now pretty sure the Pro is the right WIFI streamer (for TIDAL) when wanting to connect the PRO to my (incoming) RME ADI-2 DAC FS (via S/PDIF or COAX) which I want to run as my headphone amp/dac, right?! :)
@@PassionforSound Thanks for getting back to me :) I was looking for a way to connect my headphone amp/DAC wirelessly to TIDAL and think that the WiiM Pro will do the trick just fine. My NAD hifi amps (m10v2 & m33) just don't offer a dedicaded connection for headphone amps unfortunately and, more important, my listening position/relaxing chair is not directly close to my hifi amps so a cable connection would be the solution.
I did not hear you mention that they all can stream from internal storage on your phone, etc. or from a server. That said, the app is far from optimal but it, mostly, does the job.
That's the DLNA part (unless I'm missing something else). My tends to always be more on the sound quality rather than an exhaustive features discussion.
Nice review as always since I've been seeing your content. Im sorely thinking fof the eversolo dmp a6 or a8 but the price is 4 - 6 times of the Wiim pro plus. Ok granted the dac section is superior in the eversolo but the price of the wiim is so attractive especially in these hard times.
Yeah, it's a tough one. The WiiM Pro Plus will be plenty for a lot of people and you can always tack on an external DAC later if you want to further upgrade the sound.
Thanks so much. Learned a lot from and definitely enjoyed your review. Watched many times. Can you confirm relative to comments and perceptions you shared regarding input/digital output capabilities/sound quality, etc. whether or not you use the app to adjust settings identically? Out of the box perhaps mini default is 16/48 but you could have selected 24/192 etc. ( reference your video 8:10 and 20:00 fwd, compared to info below) please. also Amazon states for mini: Music input Up to 192 kHz, 24-bit Music output Up to 192 kHz, 24-bit (Bit perfect output, i.e., output matches input source format) Reference th-cam.com/video/3XXWUvm_BNQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Vd5LcDOcPLNNB6uv. 10:00 min into video for settings, thru maybe 11 min into vid. 16/48, 16/44.1,, 24/192 type settings for input/output options . Perhaps your review hardware were not selected identically or default is different
Thanks. Did not mean to offend by asking. Appreciate, courteous response. Sometimes devices are so complex. The smallest oversight leads to misinterpretation. Since it wasn’t mentioned, I wasn’t sure and I appreciate the clarification. Many thanks and your reviews are well done
Nice comparison. People must accept you don’t get the best components with whatever Wiim you choose. The power supply is a very cheap switch supply and the other components are all not the best you can get. Also the housing is real cheap plastic. So my advice is to invest in a good amp with high quality dac with good power supply, like Hegel for example and buy a streamer with a good low noise (aftermarket) power supply. That makes a hell of a difference.
great review … thanks for all of the information. I have three WiiM Pro’s and the sync feature is pretty amazing when running all three systems are once, and it does work really quite well. keep up the good work!
The other day I went to your link where you’re looking for recommendations. I’m sorry that I don’t really want to go through all the steps. Here’s a good sound track CD “Patriot Games” The movie with Harrison Ford. Probably made over 20 years ago.
Thanks for sharing. If you do see a future one of those and want to contribute, it's only four questions and you can ignore most of them if you have nothing to add for them. 🙂
@@PassionforSound and I couldn't remember the name of the movie even though I have the CD. By chance I saw it on Prime while searching. Thanks for your kind words.
So the music from the Plus using its own DAC through an amp, is crappier than a mid level😅 CD player say an Onkyo for the same music piece, the former at Ultra HD streamed quality? Cost of living and the wife prevents me from getting $$$$ streamer so just wanting damn good sounding music from say Tidal.
I'd say it's going to be on par with a mid level CD player (depending on cost, brand, etc.) Where it starts to lag behind is if you have a dedicated standalone DAC.
I'll guess that the power filtering in the larger units is better, and this could also be making a difference in the streaming quality. I know that adding a better power supply to my Node 2i (that I use for streaming only) makes a big improvement in the sound quality.
Thank you for the presentation. I'm having a hard time understanding the external DAC. At 12m:54s you compare Wiim's internal DAC to a "high quality, eternal option" (specifically the EverSolo DMP A6). Why not just use the EverSolo A6 and forget about the Wiim altogether? Does Wiim Pro Plus do anything that the Eversolo A6 doesn't?
Yes, sorry for the confusion. The EverSolo can also act as a DAC in addition to being a streamer. I used it's internal DAC because it made comparisons easy. I could go WiiM to A6 and then compare with the A6 streaming to its own internal DAC.
A streamer isn't really necessary in that situation. Sometimes, they can provide more freedom by not having your source be your computer, but that's about all.
@@PassionforSound thanks. And I actually ordered one just for this reason. I will not need to turn on my PC to play the music. Also, unlike with iPad, Wiim allows to control music playback remotely using my phone. One would think iPad should be easily controlled by iPhone but no, it is currently not possible.
With 3.5mm vs RCA: They should sound exactly the same, as they are the same electrically. You're only going to get a better sound from an analog connection (Given the same DAC and preamp) if it's balanced Also with the weight on the Pro Plus: WiiM confirmed to another reviewer (Darko Audio) that they actually put a ballast in to make it feel more premium. It's unlikely that much of the increase is from the additional circuitry It is strange what's going on with the WiiM mini's digital output though, that should be identical to everything else unless it is using a lower bit depth or sample rate or there is some audio processing going on that for some reason isn't going on with the Pro and Pro Plus. If it were a circuitry issue then it wouldn't result in the song sounding off, it would result in the output being a complete garbled mess of noise
I discussed exactly that here: th-cam.com/video/TZAAvLhpk8A/w-d-xo.htmlsi=CxFnyb-BTZukwV3s (it was just a bit buried because most of the video focusses on the Lumin D3)
Interesting! I stream via Wiim Mini using WiFi and Apple Music lossless (16/44 and I am perfectly fine with CD quality thank you). Going through optical -> DAC -> Tube preamp -> 2 x Class A mono blocks -> Magnepan 3.7i -> room treatment -> well thought out listening position = It sounds decent. Do you honestly mean I can improve my SQ by changing streamer to a Wiim Pro? My streamer already give me bit-perfect. The only thing that can degrade Wiim Mini SQ would be: Bad power supply (do not use power from USB lap top as one example), do not activate EQ in Wiim App (not bit-perfect anymore), do not use blue tooth (of course!) - only WiFi with Airplay or Qobuz/Tidal connect etc to maximize Mini´s performance. Are you sure that you gave Wiim Mini exactly same conditions as Pro? Same streaming services, same song, level matched, back and forth 10 times? If you please can elaborate your test procedure I will consider to upgrade to a Pro. Thank you for bringing up the hot topic of streaming to an external DAC, but I am skeptical as others does not hear any differences between streamers (if they are properly setup and can deliver bit-perfect that is...). Thanks again!
I was a bit surprised too. I used the same, supplied power supply for all three devices, no EQ, direct streaming from Qobuz, same optical cable, same DAC, same amp. There was a very clear difference between the Mini and the Pro. No difference from Pro to Pro Plus or Pro/Pro Plus to EverSolo.
@@PassionforSound Thank you for responding back, it seems you performed a credibly test. Maybe it comes down to how you were powering the Mini as it could (?) be more sensitive regarding incoming power? You could always try with a power bank (without any connected main supply) and see if that could equal SQ streaming level to Pro/Pro+/Eversolo... I know it is too late for you as you have returned the Wiim´s, but someone else could easily try this and report back.
I've actually just posted a short video about this. I can't recall if I mentioned it in the short video, but the WiiM Mini did seem to improve a bit with quality power. However, so did the Pro so the gap still remains for those seeking maximum quality.
Excellent opinion and suggestion. Some, probable the most, will use the Minipro as a streamer with their external docs (expensive) o Hifi equipment. For that, as suggested by the video the Pro es enough.
I’d love it if they would offer a straight streamer with the apple app compatibility like the eversolo. I also wish eversolo would do a streamer only option, because a lot of us don’t need the dac, we already have high end dacs and just want a great streamer with the great screen and album art etc..
I'm actually wondering how much cost the inclusion of a DAC adds. It's probably a pretty small margin so I don't know that a device like this would be much cheaper if it were a streamer only. They could perhaps make it a little smaller, but you'd still wash space for that lovely screen.
@@PassionforSound I learned in Geshelli dac both rca and xlr work simultaneously. I hooked up my old smsl sh6 to the Rica and compared to the aune s17 pro. Surprisingly I did find sh6 really good for its price really good analog sound.
Thanks so much for this comparison! I’m presently feeding my WiiM Mini stream to a Topping stack, so I will be upgrading to the Pro…
… however, the additional point I want to make to your review is how well the WiiM(s) work with JRiver. I found the WiiM sluggish with generic DLNA, but I believe the WiiMs allow for connecting with the JRiver catalog, rather than the file structure & individual files’ metadata. The result is 10x quicker for loading, syncing and selection. It allows for using JRiver’s own app (iOS & Android) and pointing the app’s (i.e., JR server) output to the WiiM… easy, peasy…
I too have a Wiim Mini using an external DAC and had wondered if upgrading to a different streamer would make any difference. I will now be upgrading to the Wiim Pro too. I'll have to explore JRiver as I don't know much about it.
@@pcm9969
You may find its initial cost a bit expensive, but if your library is large, its well worth the dough and its cost is much less than Roon for the same functionality. I do wish JRiver would update its forum however, as it is access to JRiver’s support team and is difficult to search
Thanks for sharing your experiences with JRiver! That could be really helpful for some users.
I just wanted to say thank you. I have watched several reviews of the Wiim's. You are the only person so far who has actually answered my questions and compared the streaming functions. Seriously you wouldn't imagine it would be that hard to find an answer to a common sense question. Yet your the first that I have found. I greatly appreciate it and your other work.
I had searched all over to find a direct comparison of ONLY the streaming performance using an external DAC. Like you, I thought this would be an obvious video to produce. Thanks to Lachlan, we finally have one.
I'm so glad I could be helpful (and shocked that no-one else did it). 🙂
Same. I’ve watched a lot of these videos and this is the first time I understand what it does.
Fantastic. You nailed almost every question i had. Thank you!
My pleasure. Glad I could help!
As someone interested in only a digital streamer, this was exactly what I needed. Looking forward to the future comparisons!
I'm glad it was helpful. The WiiMs have to go back, but I now know that the streaming stage of the DMP-A6 is equivalent to the WiiM Pro/Pro Plus so I can use that as a reference point.
What reasonable priced (to start) DAC would you recommend to pair with the wiim pro plus and klipsch The Fives?
My budget for the DAC is around $300
There isn't a huge range of DAC types at that price - they'll all be one or other variant of a chip-based Delta Sigma DAC which means you're not having to consider R2R or Multibit in the equation. I've got a bunch of DACs listed here in price order. I recommend all of them: bit.ly/RecDACs
A few things to mention: the Pro Plus weight is partly due to extra ballast in the base, the Pro and Pro Plus also now run Squeezelite so you can stream to them from LMS; the Mini does not do Chromecast or Squeezelite.
I wondered about the possibility of extra weight having been added to the Plus. Thanks for the extra info.
Very interesting, Mr Cool. I had a Squeezebox touch, which, for a while, was the bees knees of streaming. Its good to know Squeezelite endures. Incidentally, I had the Touch for years before, watching Darko, I realised that the lovely blue shade on the chrome finish was a protective film which should be removed.
Finally, a review that compares the pure digital outputs using them as streamer only. Strange as it sounds for such a popular streamer, I could never find a clear answer on that until now. Thank you!
There are settings options for input and output quality ranging from 16/44 to 24/192 at least. I was just watching this review and did inquire with the channel owner whether or not that was considered because maybe the explanation of the difference in sound could have related to Different default settings for each device out-of-the-box, where if equalized the expected digital output similarities for bit perfect sound would be no different. And maybe that would still not be the case. I don’t really know but that’s why I asked the general owner whether that had been considered, because in another review somebody had shown The app in her face with the various selections, and when they first open the app to show during the video it was not set to the highest resolution, and that may have been out of the box or just through their normal use where it was arbitrarily at one setting that they later changed to another. Could explain why they were otherwise unexplained differences in digital outputs or maybe they were all the same set values and still sound differently. So I’ve inquired for clarification, because sometimes those subtle differences, if not deep into the Settings, as a user can result in unexplained outcomes.
Sorry that I missed your comment on the first time around, audiorick!
The differences in sound are due to the circuit quality within the different devices (power filtering, conversion from data to optical output, etc.) as all settings were identical.
This is the type of review I've been searching forever for! Every streamer review I've seen before only compares the streamers using their internal DACs. None of the reviews compared streamers using the same external DAC. I have a Wiim Mini that I was considering upgrading and wanted to know if I would get better sound quality using my own external DAC. You answered that question! I am looking forward to your upcoming dedicated streamer comparison. Great job!
So glad I could help! The Lumin D3 should arrive in the next week or so. I'm excited for that one too!
Plus one! Easily the most logical and thorough review for those of us with audiophile tastes and mid-fi budgets.
First off--amazing video! Thank you!
Beginner question: How does one "bypass" the Wiim DACS? (if connecting to an external DAC)?
Just use the optical out (to the ext Dac)? What happens if one uses the RCA out to an ext Dac?
Glad you liked the video.
When it comes to the connection and bypassing the DAC, using the RCA outputs requires the WiiM's DAC to decode the streamed audio from data to an audio signal (analog). Using the optical or coaxial output will automatically bypass the WiiM DAC and take the data straight from the incoming streamed signal to let your external DAC handle the decoding.
I'm looking forward to your comparison of the Wiim streamers to high end stand-alone streamers. Would also be interested to have you compare Wiim streamers to the Ifi Zen. Thanks for doing reviews that focus on sound!
Also interested in a comparison with the Zen Stream.
I switched from an Ifi Zen Stream to a Wiim Pro about 8 months ago and overall I am happier with the Wiim Pro. I find it to be more stable and the Software is much better. And in Canada the Wiim Pro is less than half the price of the Zen Stream.
I ran both streamers into a Denafrips Ares II Dac, and would use Tidal Connect and Qobuz through BubbleUPNP. The Zen Stream was always flaky with Tidal Connect. It would just randomly disconnect from it in between songs. This would occur when it was it connected to my network either wirelessly or via RJ45 cable so I don't think it was a network issue. Never have any problems with the Wiim Pro though. I also had to -re-setup the Zen Stream occassionally when I was running it on the wireless network. For some reason it would just lose it's settings. And the setup software for it isn't great.
I couldn't notice a difference in audio quality between the two when connecting via SPDIF to the DAC. The main pros of the Ifi Zen for me was the USB output, USB port to plug in a flashdrive or NAS, and it's DSD support, but overall for everyday use I would still choose the Wiim Pro for it's Software, stability and ease of use.
@@mattsev9134 Thank you for sharing your experience. Very helpful.
@mattsev9134 I have the same setup as you and agree with Zen stream has connection issues but I think that the Zen provides a much better audio experience. I am running the Plus with a Allo Nirvana and the Zen with a ifi ipower 15v. I will try the Plus one more time.
Unfortunately, the local distributor has blocked multiple attempts by iFi to get products to me for review. I'd love to compare the Zen Stream, but it's unlikely at this point. 😞
An external power supply, such as the Allo Nirvana, greatly improves the sound quality of the Pro Plus.
I can imagine that. The power supply and the internal power filtering with the WiiMs are both going to be fairly basic given the price.
I've watched quite a few of these Wiim reviews now, and you are the only reviewer to provide a definitive answer as to whether there is any difference between the digital output of the three models. Bravo, and thanks very much! 👍😁
So glad I could help! 🙂
I just recently posted a comment or inquiry on this. I did see with another reviewer that there are settings to adjust input in output between such settings 16/44 or 24/192 and I observed when a different reviewer open the app using the mini the default seem to have opened at 16/44 for digital output book. I think he change it up to 24/192 so if that’s the case, perhaps in this review that was a step not taken or the default between devices of different price points start at different default settings worth considering so I’m curious in
I believe there are input settings options that are similar to those mentioned here elsewhere in this other review or in probably to help information for the product
Also: Amazon for mini says :
Music input Up to 192 kHz, 24-bit
Music output Up to 192 kHz, 24-bit (Bit perfect output, i.e., output matches input source format)
All settings were identical across each device and they were all set for bit perfect output. If you scan through the comments here, you'll find multiple users who've heard the same as me with the Mini and Pro.
thanks for this review! Read some ppl saying the A6 "streams better" and my doubt flags were going up, but reassuring to hear someone neutrally compare the two who I trust. This then leaves me with the question: does ANYTHING stream better than the Wiim Pro?
I've just received the Lumin D3 today (about $2,500 USD) and my VERY quick testing this afternoon would suggest that it might be a little better than the DMP-A6/A8 streaming stage (and therefore the WiiM Pro/Pro Plus too). It was a pretty subtle difference though so a much more thorough session is needed.
I just got the Wiim Pro. So far love it. I have a great DAC and needed a way to stream Hi Res into it, this works great. I have Amazon and Tidal, this works with both and a bunch of others. The pro has better connectivity tan the mini, the Pro plus was more than I needed, so I went with the Pro.
Great choice. The Pro is perfect for your type of setup.
Have you found that when using Amazon music through the app that there is a delay of about 5-10 seconds when changing songs? That has been the only thing that has bothered me so far. I get around that by using Google home app and using my phones Amazon music app.
I bought the WiiM Pro a few days before the WiiM Pro Plus was released. Did I make a mistake? I use a Schiit external DAC for most listening and have no plans to use the analog inputs. You answered every question I had about upgrading. The WiiM Pro is the best value for my use case. The lower WiiM Mini performance with digital outputs was also interesting. Thanks for doing a comprehensive and intelligent review.
and only WiiM pro is Roon ready ,
My pleasure, not Elvis. 🙂
Huuuge thank you, especially for mini \ pro comparison. Priceless knowledge for caraudio, where I'm going to use it. Definitely will give Wiim pro a chance and removed mini from amzn basket
Oh wow! Interesting idea to use it in the car! Glad I could help.
It's a pity you didn't compare them with LPS. I have Pro and Pro+, I noticed a positive difference with LPS, a more pleasant, more musical sound. Maybe next time, when comparing with Lumin D3? just a small proposition $300 [Pro with LPS] Vs $3000 streamer.
Yes, I might add a power supply for the Lumin D3 review (if I haven't sent back the WiiMs before then). I didn't add additional power supplies for this video because I didn't want to overcomplicating things. 🙂
Outstanding as always Lachlan. Finally, someone whose opinion I value has reviewed the WiiM trifecta in one video. I have both the Pro & Pro+ and totally agree with your findings. For critical listening, you need to run to an external DAC but for anything else these rock. The WiiM app is updated every week at least and is an excellent interface. Thank you and keep up the great work.
I'm glad you liked the review! I completely agree that these are perfect for anything short of high end critical listening. And even then, just adding an external DAC takes them to the next level.
Would be great if you compared the best value pure streamers that would be used with external dacs
I'll definitely do that if I get the chance to get my hands on them 🙂
This was such a well-structured review, extremely clear and communicated many things I wasn’t aware of from reading / watching other articles and videos. Sounds like the Pro is more than good enough for simply outputting to my soundbar system, with scope to then add a DAC, active speakers & high-end amp down the line. Thanks so much!
I'm so glad it was helpful for you! Thanks for letting me know. 🙏🙂
I went from a Wim pro to an Eversolo a8, although the a6 would be comparable in features. I have a large digital library and do not want to keep it on a NAS turned on all the time. Also I use KKBox as they have a massive variety of Asian songs. The Eversolo allows me to play my library directly from the player in an SSD and it also supports KKBox streaming, which was what I needed. The dac is also nice when I wish for a different signature. The Eversolo display is nice but I mostly only find it useful to observe channel imbalances. Whether the imbalance is coming from the source or the speaker itself. I use horn speakers so placement is very sensitive.
Overall both Eversolo and the wiim app have their quirks but they are both intuitive and stable. The Eversolo is a streamer, dac, music player and pre-amp built in one. If you're doing purely streaming and the Wiim supports the services, then the Wiim is best suited.
Thanks for sharing your experiences!
Сдается мне что ты брешешь и linkplay тебе заплатила, ведь если расхвалишь wiim mini то более дорогие устройства не будут продаваться, а правда в том что ты не услышишь разницы между ними
Finally someone made things clear, especially for people already owning a hi-quality DAC.
I'm glad I could help!
The ripoff is everytime I buy a new WiiM a new one comes out 3-4 months later lol
so wait forever, next year WiiM Ultra probably similar look to WiiM amp/
Yep, the wonderful world of modern electronics 🙂
thanks, that was exactly what I needed to know, I was thinking of purchasing eversolo A6, Now I see don't need anymore since I have the wiim pro and it already gives what it's necessary
Excellent! So glad I could help 🙂
When you test the Wiim Pro Plus against the Lumen, add the option of an sBooster LPS to the Wiim Pro Plus for comparison. Jeff
I've got a quality linear power supply here so I can do that. 🙂
One of the best comparison videos I have watched. Excellent detail, presented in a calm educated manner. You never lost my attention. I have subscribed and look forward to your other videos. Glad to have found you!
!
Thanks so much for the sub! I'm glad you liked the video. 🙂
Thank you for the comprehensive comparison of the trio's features and sound quality. Your review was excellent. While it's reassuring that the streaming sound quality and app interface of Wiim Pro / Pro+ are comparable to the DMP-A6, for a complete replacement, I'd hope that Wiim could incorporate USB in/out 3.0 ports. This addition would support PCM higher than 24/192 and DSD, as well as local music playback-features I find essential. I personally don't prioritize the display, UV meter, or other technical aspects found in the A6, but the absence of USB connections for these features is a limiting factor.
Moreover, I also like the PEQ in the Wiim Pro / Pro+, not available in the everSolo until the much pricier A8 model. This creates an immediate $1k+ price saving that I could use to invest a top notch r2r DAC such as Gustard R26 or Pontus II.
I believe the DMP-A6 has just received a firmware update to add the EQ functions (I haven't confirmed this yet).
As for adding USB, that's a more complex addition to the outputs and is why other devices are larger and cost more than the WiiMs. I agree that it would be valuable, but it would also change the value proposition of the WiiMs.
I have a wiim pro, BlueSound node (latest rev) and Sonore Ultra rendu w/upgraded LPS. All three are fed to external dacs. The wiim pro I think o got for $120 a year ago on sale is fantastic. The SQ is great and native steaming of amazon is helpful. There are puts and takes to all 3 but the wiim can’t be beat the price.
I agree. Thanks for sharing 🙂
For those recogizing the careful thought Lachlan puts into his reviews, this the norm, they are reviews worth waiting for.
This is the only review I've seen (and I have searched far and wide!) that has compared ONLY the digital output performance of streamers using an external DAC. All other reviews I've seen have only compared them using their own built it DACs. As I have my own external DAC, those reviews were worthless to me.
He is thoughtful and through, doesn't just pump out content.
Thank you, Peyton and Perry! I'm so glad you both feel that way.
If your a CD And SACD lover . And like the covenants of steaming, What think of the Marantz 30 player that does everything .
I haven't tried that one, but a box that does it all sounds like a great idea!
Thank you for the detailed comparison. One additional detail - if I am using the Pro or the Pro Plus only like streamers then does the EQ and the PEQ work? Or they work only for the analog outputs?
I use them (pro and pro plus) with an external DAC, and the EQ works in the digital domain.
Great question! Thank you, Rick for the answer.
PEQ requires iPhone
I thought I saw those controls on my Android. Are you certain?
I hear folks in more than a few forums and here on TH-cam bashing these WiiM streamers, mainly due to their low price. How can something this cheap sound so good, it is not possible they say. Bullocks! Even their internal DAC is more than suitable for general listening, add an external DAC and a linear power supply, and I would put the WiiM Pro up against streamers costing thousands of dollars. Then the other advantage to the WiiM products, is the easily accessible 10 band graphic equalizer, I do not know of any streamer manufacturer offering this feature. I will keep my WiiM Pro and Mini, and I have had owned a few streamers, the WiiM products are simply outstanding, especially for the money if you are in the market for a simple streamer.
I agree that they're great value for money all the way up to when your DAC reaches about the $700 USD mark. After that, you can definitely do better, but it also depends on how focussed your listening will be and what value you place on the app experience (which is excellent for the WiiM)
@@PassionforSound The WiiM app is KING in my book if you are looking to simply stream music. And I am not talking about NAS servers and all of that, simple streaming. And yes, right out of the box the WiiM is not going to quite get there, but with a little tweaking here and there... With the right power supply, say JRiver, decent cables, etc, I would put the WiiM Pro and Pro Plus up against streamers up to $5000 USD. If you have "Golden Ears", well, you will disagree. But for the most part, for the money, the WiiM can easily compete with the big boys.
It's not so much about golden ears as the level of the rest of your gear. Your point holds true though that they're an excellent device with an even better app.
This was pure gold! Absolutely the best info package about these devices. You made my day and I'll be getting the Pro with external DAC.
I'm so glad you found it useful!
Curious if you're going to review the WiiM Ultra when it becomes available.
I'd definitely like to and will try to arrange a loaner from Radio Parts.
What power supply was used? Makes a BIG DIFFERENCE!!!! I have all three.
Where can I find the data to prove that a power supply makes a BIG DIFFERENCE.
@@r423sdex they're called your ears. Using an Apple supply and then investing in an iFi supply? Makes a big diff.
I have the ifi supply, absolutely no audible improvement. That's using the power elite . What one are you using ?
Your ears can measure at -140dB ! . You are a lucky man.
@@r423sdex you're very snippy and not worth any further conversation.
The Pro Plus also comes with a remote - worth a mention!
Yes. That was an oversight on my part. Sorry about that.
This review was unbelievably comprehensive and the only video I've found with the information I actually needed. My use case is adding Airplay 2 with an external dac. THANK YOU
My pleasure! I'm so glad I could help. 🙂
Just ordered wiim pro. My dac is geshelli JNOG2 [J2]. Should I use toslink or coaxial . Any difference?
I don't have a WiiM here to test, but there shouldn't be a significant difference. Theoretically, optical should isolate the DAC from any noise coming from the WiiM so that's probably the best bet with all else being equal.
Thank you. Best Wiim review I'v come across this far. Exactly answering the questions I had. Cheers.
So glad I could help!
Adding a duplicate comment outside of the thread above
So I hooked up the wiim pro and am not in love. I may have an issue. It is definitely more clear and precise. The problem is the highs from my tweeter though very very clear are also a bit thin and harsh, almost sibilent. With the mini the sound is smooth and pleasant. I don't know if I have a problem with the new streamer, or if the new streamer is pointing out flaws with my speakers that were not noticeable before.
For reference, my system after the wiim is a Geshelli j2s 4499/sparkos, Rotel A11 Tribute, Wharfedale Evo 4.1, SVS Micro.
Thoughts?
I'll answer here too for others who might not read the longer thread.
This sounds like the Mini's smoothness was masking an issue with your system. It's very hard to say where the problem specifically lies though. Could be anything from the speakers to the interconnects to the room, etc.
I don't have the issues you spoke of with the WiiM mini with either my SMSL SU-1 DAC, or my Schiit Modi 3. I listen to all types of music with clean, clear, realistic music. To each his on.
I'm glad you're enjoying it! 🙂
Pro and Pro Plus have EQ: 10 band GEQ and 4 band PEQ. Wiim is working on a 10 band PEQ. Eversolo hasn't as yet fully developed the EQ in its A8 device but will eventually get there. For me the main added value in the Eversolo DMP-A6 lies in its interface, the 4 Tb internal SSD AND the fact that it supports Apple Music.
I agree. Both have their benefits and points of value.
Excellent comparison!
I'm planning on buying a WiiM to get Spotify in to my 30 year old Bang & Olufsen Beocenter 9500. I'm going to use the analogue output from WiiM and not an external DAC. Is it worth getting the Pro over the Mini when it is connected to such an old system?
Glad you liked the video.
Yes, definitely go for the Pro. Even though it's old, the B&O gear will have plenty of resolution to reveal the difference between the Mini and Pro. You could probably even justify going to the Pro Plus if you wanted to.
@@PassionforSound Hi. Thanks for the advice, I will go for the Pro and even see if I can squeeze in a Pro Plus in the budget.
"Everything else is a ripoff" Is hyperbole. There are features missing in the wiim products that some peopel will want. they don't have USB out and don't support NAA so if you want to use HQ player you can't use a Wiim streamer. if the wiim does everything you want it's a great product. If you want to play music at sample rates higher than 192k you need USB.
I completely agree, hence the question mark in the title 😉
If you did the same external DAC tests via optical with a blindfold on... Would you really hear a difference? 🤔
Between the Mini and Pro? Without a doubt.
I have the mini and it sounds great, unless I’m switching back-and-forth My brain will never know the difference.
Absolutely. It doesn't sound bad at all. Enjoy!
Thank you for the streaming to external dac comparisons. Everyone else says it doesn't matter as long as you're using an external dac. However in my very neutral and revealing system, I'm using a Wiim mini with an external dac. I knew that something was wrong with my system, but couldn't put my finger on it. Not until you said "thick sounding" that the light bulb came on. I have tinkered for months trying to get the details, transients, and subtleties, into the sound my system is capable of. I'm not happy with other reviewers stating that it's an optical 24/192 stream so it doesn't matter. I'm ordering a pro today. Thanks again
I'm glad I could help. I think you'll be really happy with the upgrade.
Drop back in and let us all know. 🙂
This is exactly where I have been! Too many moving pieces :D
I think you will be happy with the more expensive item because that’s how our brains deal with experiences that are the same but priced differently. However, if you arrange for a friend to run a randomised blind test you might enjoy finding that there is no actual difference, just as there is no difference when a photo is emailed to you from someone with an expensive or a cheap laptop - the photo file is the same.
That's not accurate and is oversimplifying/overgeneralising. Firstly, as I understand it, real time music playback (as opposed to downloading a file and then opening it) doesn't allow for the same error correction and (in the case of music) avoidance of noise introduced in the conversion process from data to digital audio output to analog audio output.
Then, as we get to price and expectations, people will prefer a more expensive product of both are the same and they've spent their own money on it, but they will also have higher expectations of it if it is meant to be better/different so this creates an offset of the initial bias you've raised. Then, there's the fact that this bias won't apply to people (like me) who are trying the device without any invested money and who have no incentive for one to be better than the other.
@@PassionforSound The price/ quality effect has been routinely demonstrated for years. Decades ago as part of undergraduate studies we replicated a standard experiment with wine where subjects were given 3 samples with no other information except retail price. Our results were the same as the original study. Almost all preferred the most or least expensive, not the middle. All except one expressed their opinion with conviction and could describe differences. The samples for each subject had actually been poured from the same bottle and there was no difference. If you arrange a proper blind test with another person randomising the playback then you will have a better idea if what you perceive is genuine.
I've used the WiiM pro for about a year. Recently, I've found myself listening less. A week ago, I switched out the WiiM for my older Yamaha WXC-50. I really wasn't expecting to hear a big difference, certainly not an improvement but, I don't think I'll be going back to the WiiM, at least for a while. Overall I just like the sound of the Yamaha a little better. A tiny bit more detail in all aspects. I should say I use both as a streamer only into a Bifrost2 DAC. Perhaps it's just my system or that the Yamaha is 3 times the price of the WiiM.
That makes sense and is a really nice example of the fact that the better the power supply, filtering and (maybe) clocking of the signal, the better the end result. Happy listening!
I have the Wiim Mini into an SMSL SU-1 external dac. I’m not sure I’d be able to hear the difference if I replaced the Mini with a Pro just for the upgraded gpu, especially since I’m running apple music via airplay2 which isn’t bitperfect lossless anyway.
Absolutely. Your setup is a perfect example where the Mini is all you need and if you're enjoying it, there's absolutely no reason to spend more money.
Thank you from Sweden!🇸🇪
I have used my Technics SL-G700 as a streamer for Tidal to my Technics SU-R1000. Very expensive gears.
But sometimes it have stopped working. I have tried everything to fix the streaming problem with no success.
When I bought the Wiim pro plus connected to my SU-R1000 with spdif, I couldn´t be happier.
It sound fantastic and all the problems with Tidal and SL-G700 was gone 😀
Now I only use my SL-G700 as an CD/SACD player.
The Wiim pro plus as a streamer, software and user interface is so much better.
That's great news! Their software implementation is excellent. Sounds like the reliability is too. 🙂
Anyone have an opinion on how the DAC in the WIIM Pro Plus would compare to the older Anthem MRX-720 AVR?
Not one that I can help with from experience so hopefully others will...
This by far the best review of the three streamers! I went with the Pro since I own two dacs already. This will be my first streamer so I didn't want to spend to much because in a year there will be another with subwoofer out etc..
Nice choice! I'm sure you'll enjoy it. Glad I could be helpful!
The DAC in the pro plus sounds significantly better than the DAC in the pro for people that aren't using an external DAC.
Yes, definitely.
I have a whim mini and was thinking of getting the pro plus or a power node by Bluesound. My budget is limited since I retired. But I do have a Hegel H160 and Magnepan 1.7 speakers. Any recommendations ?? I accidentally spelled Wiim wrong,,,,lol
I haven't played with the Bluesound, but the Pro Plus is definitely a solid option.
Went with just the WiiM Pro since using my Topping D90, couldn't justify the Plus for this reason.
Yep. Good choice!
So impressed with your review, you answered all the question in my mind, plus more. Great Job!
So pleased I could help! 🙂
Hello,
In WiiM Pro and in general, does the Coax Audio Output is SPDIF Coax?
Thanks
That's correct 🙂
WOW! I was seriously under the impression that my WiiM mini was just as good as the other two! Dammit, now I have to upgrade.
Sorry about that. And, you're welcome! 😉
For this excellent low price, I think most people will be using Spotify anyway. It will be fine for a second room or for the wife and kids especially if you are using a digital input on a receiver or a sound bar.
Exactly. It's perfect (and compact) for those sorts of situations.
What a great review. Thanks a lot, u did a great job there. As many had and would say the best comparisson of the wiim products so far. Greetings from Colombia.
I'm so glad you feel that way. Thanks for watching and commenting! 🙂
I have a mini and pro. When I demoed the A6, immediately switched to it and never looked back. I use the mini in my office and the pro in another room connected to active speakers. The A6 ME is my daily streamer connected to a DAC and HP amp.
Thanks for sharing your experiences!
Have had my pro since March. Had always connected it to one of 3 DACs at any given time. (Audio Alchemy DAC doesn't do HiRes. It's from the 90's) Tried the Line Out and I'm happy to comment how good it sounded in my 2 speaker system.
That's great to hear. Thanks for sharing!
Great production values. Sadly, I lack audiophile eardrums.
So long as you can enjoy music - that's the bit that matters. 🙂
Thanks for watching and commenting!
I just got the Pro Plus. I will be pairing with the Topping E50 to compare the two DACs with my 2-channel system. You say the WiiM does not have an interface however, it is noted as having an excellent software UI that has lots of cross compatibility and a great EQ function. The Plus also comes with the voice remote included. I stream to my office, theater system and bedroom movie system with dedicated Mini PCs. I control them with a wireless keyboard/mouse. I am integrating Google Home with everything soon. I had the Zen Stream/Zen DAC V2 for my 2-channel but traded it for a pair of Klipsch kg4 vintage speakers. The Zen sounds amazing, but I thought I would just get another $250 Mini PC, till I found the Wiim Pro Plus. Love your videos. Thank you!
That will be a VERY interesting comparison! I'd expect the E50 to come out ahead, but it might not...
When I mentioned the interface, I was referring to a touch screen with menus, etc. on the device. The app is amazing as you say - one of the very best I've seen.
The mini was $79. Guess they raised it. Even at @ $79 I sent it back.
Didn't like the sound?
As a streamer the pro plus supports DSD. You mentioned there was no differences, however there is that.
Sorry. That's a good point.
The volume,eq, and time correction will all degrade the sound.
Yes, at least the EQ will. I don't know how the volume is handled - most DAC chips do this bit-perfectly these days. And with the timing, it's not inter-channel timing with DSP, just inter-device delays so it might not be a problem.
SO YOU DONT HAVE TO BUY ANY STREAMS SERVICE YOU GET ALL MUSIC SERVICE FOR FREE WITH THIS BOXES
No. You still have to sign up to the services you want to listen to. This is just a receiving device.
Thank you, great review and it answers all my questions. Great job
That's great news! So glad I could help. 🙂
Amazing review!! Covered all my unknowns👌
I'm so glad you liked it!
13:35 I have noticed this with the AKM4493S chip in my external DAC too. I have been doing comparisons between that and the Burr Brown in my NAD C338 and it’s less a question of which one I like than which one I dislike less.
Either way, the WiiM Pro is on my list and somewhere down the track, the EverSolo.
Yes. Unfortunately, we're a bit limited by some of these DAC chips unless they're really well implemented. Hope you enjoy your upgrades as they happen!
@@PassionforSound Thank you.
Thanks a lot for all the information and testing you provided!
I am now pretty sure the Pro is the right WIFI streamer (for TIDAL) when wanting to connect the PRO to my (incoming) RME ADI-2 DAC FS (via S/PDIF or COAX) which I want to run as my headphone amp/dac, right?! :)
I'm not sure exactly what you're asking, but that all sounds like the right setup 🙂
@@PassionforSound Thanks for getting back to me :) I was looking for a way to connect my headphone amp/DAC wirelessly to TIDAL and think that the WiiM Pro will do the trick just fine. My NAD hifi amps (m10v2 & m33) just don't offer a dedicaded connection for headphone amps unfortunately and, more important, my listening position/relaxing chair is not directly close to my hifi amps so a cable connection would be the solution.
I did not hear you mention that they all can stream from internal storage on your phone, etc. or from a server. That said, the app is far from optimal but it, mostly, does the job.
That's the DLNA part (unless I'm missing something else). My tends to always be more on the sound quality rather than an exhaustive features discussion.
Nice review as always since I've been seeing your content. Im sorely thinking fof the eversolo dmp a6 or a8 but the price is 4 - 6 times of the Wiim pro plus. Ok granted the dac section is superior in the eversolo but the price of the wiim is so attractive especially in these hard times.
Yeah, it's a tough one. The WiiM Pro Plus will be plenty for a lot of people and you can always tack on an external DAC later if you want to further upgrade the sound.
Thanks so much. Learned a lot from and definitely enjoyed your review. Watched many times.
Can you confirm relative to comments and perceptions you shared regarding input/digital output capabilities/sound quality, etc. whether or not you use the app to adjust settings identically? Out of the box perhaps mini default is 16/48 but you could have selected 24/192 etc. ( reference your video 8:10 and 20:00 fwd, compared to info below) please.
also Amazon states for mini: Music input Up to 192 kHz, 24-bit
Music output Up to 192 kHz, 24-bit (Bit perfect output, i.e., output matches input source format)
Reference th-cam.com/video/3XXWUvm_BNQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Vd5LcDOcPLNNB6uv. 10:00 min into video for settings, thru maybe 11 min into vid. 16/48, 16/44.1,, 24/192 type settings for input/output options . Perhaps your review hardware were not selected identically or default is different
All devices were setup for maximum input and output quality so all using the same source quality and bit perfect outputs. 🙂
Thanks. Did not mean to offend by asking. Appreciate, courteous response. Sometimes devices are so complex. The smallest oversight leads to misinterpretation. Since it wasn’t mentioned, I wasn’t sure and I appreciate the clarification. Many thanks and your reviews are well done
No offense taken. It was a very reasonable question. 🙂
Nice comparison. People must accept you don’t get the best components with whatever Wiim you choose. The power supply is a very cheap switch supply and the other components are all not the best you can get. Also the housing is real cheap plastic. So my advice is to invest in a good amp with high quality dac with good power supply, like Hegel for example and buy a streamer with a good low noise (aftermarket) power supply. That makes a hell of a difference.
Thank you, wiim pro ordered after viewing this video.
Glad I could help. Nice choice. Enjoy!
This is a solid review and I appreciate how you talk quickly and it’s all meat.
I'm glad you liked the content and delivery!
Excellent in-depth review! Thank you
My pleasure! 🙂🙂
great review … thanks for all of the information. I have three WiiM Pro’s and the sync feature is pretty amazing when running all three systems are once, and it does work really quite well. keep up the good work!
Thanks for sharing your experience with the sync function! Glad you liked the review. 🙂
The other day I went to your link where you’re looking for recommendations. I’m sorry that I don’t really want to go through all the steps. Here’s a good sound track CD “Patriot Games” The movie with Harrison Ford. Probably made over 20 years ago.
Thanks for sharing. If you do see a future one of those and want to contribute, it's only four questions and you can ignore most of them if you have nothing to add for them. 🙂
@@PassionforSound and I couldn't remember the name of the movie even though I have the CD. By chance I saw it on Prime while searching. Thanks for your kind words.
So the music from the Plus using its own DAC through an amp, is crappier than a mid level😅 CD player say an Onkyo for the same music piece, the former at Ultra HD streamed quality?
Cost of living and the wife prevents me from getting $$$$ streamer so just wanting damn good sounding music from say Tidal.
I'd say it's going to be on par with a mid level CD player (depending on cost, brand, etc.) Where it starts to lag behind is if you have a dedicated standalone DAC.
Well looks like a buy from me then!@@PassionforSound
Great! Hope you enjoy it.
Will the pro plus do 24/192 kHz thru the digital output? I’m planing to use it with Klipsch The Nines
I don't recall anymore - it's been a while. Best to check the website for detailed specs 🙂
@@PassionforSound Thanks
Saving for the Wiim pro now. Appreciate the thorough review.
My pleasure! Enjoy your Pro. Nice choice!
So I have a external DAC I would like to use so what would be the best port to send it to my DAC? Thanks
It varies from DAC to DAC so I'd suggest trying each input and see what you like the most.
What is your for old yamaha receiver,wiim mini or pro?Thanks
I'd always go for the Pro.
I'll guess that the power filtering in the larger units is better, and this could also be making a difference in the streaming quality. I know that adding a better power supply to my Node 2i (that I use for streaming only) makes a big improvement in the sound quality.
That's my guess too, Neil
Guess ! Your wrong.
Thank you for the presentation. I'm having a hard time understanding the external DAC. At 12m:54s you compare Wiim's internal DAC to a "high quality, eternal option" (specifically the EverSolo DMP A6). Why not just use the EverSolo A6 and forget about the Wiim altogether? Does Wiim Pro Plus do anything that the Eversolo A6 doesn't?
Yes, sorry for the confusion. The EverSolo can also act as a DAC in addition to being a streamer. I used it's internal DAC because it made comparisons easy. I could go WiiM to A6 and then compare with the A6 streaming to its own internal DAC.
Could someone explain to me why would it be worth it for me to have Wiim streamer if I already have Chord Mojo 2 connected to iPad?
A streamer isn't really necessary in that situation. Sometimes, they can provide more freedom by not having your source be your computer, but that's about all.
@@PassionforSound thanks. And I actually ordered one just for this reason. I will not need to turn on my PC to play the music. Also, unlike with iPad, Wiim allows to control music playback remotely using my phone. One would think iPad should be easily controlled by iPhone but no, it is currently not possible.
'Getting the most out of my wiims' is my favourite new year's resolution
LOL. And a worthy one
With 3.5mm vs RCA: They should sound exactly the same, as they are the same electrically. You're only going to get a better sound from an analog connection (Given the same DAC and preamp) if it's balanced
Also with the weight on the Pro Plus: WiiM confirmed to another reviewer (Darko Audio) that they actually put a ballast in to make it feel more premium. It's unlikely that much of the increase is from the additional circuitry
It is strange what's going on with the WiiM mini's digital output though, that should be identical to everything else unless it is using a lower bit depth or sample rate or there is some audio processing going on that for some reason isn't going on with the Pro and Pro Plus. If it were a circuitry issue then it wouldn't result in the song sounding off, it would result in the output being a complete garbled mess of noise
How about using these with a linear or low noise power supply? Can you do a test and post the results for us?
I discussed exactly that here: th-cam.com/video/TZAAvLhpk8A/w-d-xo.htmlsi=CxFnyb-BTZukwV3s (it was just a bit buried because most of the video focusses on the Lumin D3)
Great review, you nailed my big question.
I'm so glad I could help!
Interesting! I stream via Wiim Mini using WiFi and Apple Music lossless (16/44 and I am perfectly fine with CD quality thank you). Going through optical -> DAC -> Tube preamp -> 2 x Class A mono blocks -> Magnepan 3.7i -> room treatment -> well thought out listening position = It sounds decent. Do you honestly mean I can improve my SQ by changing streamer to a Wiim Pro? My streamer already give me bit-perfect. The only thing that can degrade Wiim Mini SQ would be: Bad power supply (do not use power from USB lap top as one example), do not activate EQ in Wiim App (not bit-perfect anymore), do not use blue tooth (of course!) - only WiFi with Airplay or Qobuz/Tidal connect etc to maximize Mini´s performance.
Are you sure that you gave Wiim Mini exactly same conditions as Pro? Same streaming services, same song, level matched, back and forth 10 times? If you please can elaborate your test procedure I will consider to upgrade to a Pro. Thank you for bringing up the hot topic of streaming to an external DAC, but I am skeptical as others does not hear any differences between streamers (if they are properly setup and can deliver bit-perfect that is...). Thanks again!
I was a bit surprised too. I used the same, supplied power supply for all three devices, no EQ, direct streaming from Qobuz, same optical cable, same DAC, same amp. There was a very clear difference between the Mini and the Pro. No difference from Pro to Pro Plus or Pro/Pro Plus to EverSolo.
@@PassionforSound Thank you for responding back, it seems you performed a credibly test. Maybe it comes down to how you were powering the Mini as it could (?) be more sensitive regarding incoming power? You could always try with a power bank (without any connected main supply) and see if that could equal SQ streaming level to Pro/Pro+/Eversolo... I know it is too late for you as you have returned the Wiim´s, but someone else could easily try this and report back.
I've actually just posted a short video about this. I can't recall if I mentioned it in the short video, but the WiiM Mini did seem to improve a bit with quality power. However, so did the Pro so the gap still remains for those seeking maximum quality.
I’m considering the new WIIM amp. But probably wait until it’s on sale.
I'll be getting that in for review soon so might be able to help with your decision. 🙂
@@PassionforSound Awesome, thanks
Excellent opinion and suggestion. Some, probable the most, will use the Minipro as a streamer with their external docs (expensive) o Hifi equipment. For that, as suggested by the video the Pro es enough.
Very good comparison. But why leave out the wiim amp?
Glad you liked it. The WiiM Amp wasn't released at the time
Great review. Wish you covered the added functionality of the included remote of the Pro Plus however.
Yes. Sorry about that. It got lost in the mix because I'm a desktop listener and had so much other stuff to consider.
I’d love it if they would offer a straight streamer with the apple app compatibility like the eversolo.
I also wish eversolo would do a streamer only option, because a lot of us don’t need the dac, we already have high end dacs and just want a great streamer with the great screen and album art etc..
yes! The only reason I'm looking at the A6 is for Apple Music integration! That's the beauty of the android workaround!
I'm actually wondering how much cost the inclusion of a DAC adds. It's probably a pretty small margin so I don't know that a device like this would be much cheaper if it were a streamer only. They could perhaps make it a little smaller, but you'd still wash space for that lovely screen.
the easiest thing to do and the cheapest way is just getting studio monitors. with a streamer and and a decent dac you will be super satisfyed
Can you suggest a dac please
What budget are you working with?
@@PassionforSound 500 approx Pounds
SMSL DO200 MK2 is nice, as is the SU-9 Ultra (also SMSL). You could opt for a FiiO K7 (or whichever "K" model fits your budget) too
@@PassionforSound I learned in Geshelli dac both rca and xlr work simultaneously. I hooked up my old smsl sh6 to the Rica and compared to the aune s17 pro. Surprisingly I did find sh6 really good for its price really good analog sound.