Bottom Bracket Standards Explained | Road Bike Maintenance
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ย. 2024
- Step into the bottom bracket standard maze with Simon Richardson. Don't worry, he knows his way around.
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BB30? PF30? Octalink? Hollowtech? The world of bottom bracket standards is about as complicated as it gets in cycling. Simon explains all in this video.
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How to resolve bottom bracket creaks ▶︎ gcn.eu/1TuyjIR
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Leave us a comment below!
I didn't enjoy this video, but I did need it. Thanks for the tough love, GCN.
Zach Bonte ثي،6ص
Those words I was looking for to describe my feelings
I love my old school square taper bottom brackets. They are very simple and easy to work on, and there is a sea of aftermarket cranks to choose from. No creaks either.
We as cyclists are good at suffering and I've done mine for the day. I watched that the whole way through.
I think the manufactures are confused about the definition of the word "standard".
agreed.. standard should mean: once one is published, if you want to be standard as well then you need to follow what's already out!
Lmao, I think alot are confused with that! They put alot of labels and they don't even apply!
Some new person or company comes up with something new and starts to change the whole industry by trying to get their new stuff labeled standard to change the whole industry , if it's better may be debatable in a small percentage of the time .
These videos are extremely helpful. I've been a bicycle mechanic at multiple shops, but there is always something new to learn. Thank you for the details, and the presentations in these videos makes the learning process much easier. I'd recommend these videos to anyone (novice or seasoned rider/mechanic)
Wow. Simon, you are a BB King. No wonder you've got the blues... :(
That's a pearler! What a comment! Haha love it.
Comment of the week
Comment of the year right there ^^^^^^^^
KKKKKKKK
I saw what you did there. Brilliant.
I give up! I'm buying a motorcycle.
It is cheaper lol.
hahahahahahah nice one!
Lol
All you actually need to know: Hollowtech or similar external threaded bearings (Mega Exo etc) are awesome. Anything involving bearings pressed directly into the frame is annoying, fiddly, stupid, hard to work on, creaking, unreliable, potentially frame-destroying crap that should be avoided.
I agree, still have to deal with press-fit headsets though, argh!
had to re-watch this twice to get the info I needed! Simon deserves a promotion for explaining this, it must have been worse than watching paint dry then followed by grass growing.
Absolutely love your sense of humor. Thanks for making a topic bearable to watch!
Long live threaded Italian and threaded English brackets! They simply don't creek as much! Super important if you build your own bike : )
yes well agreed i have one too,
I just have a $60 Huffy cruiser that I ride once every other year, so I think I am in over my head watching this video...
GCN is the best cycling resource around. Messed about for ages trying to figure out how to repair my bottom bracket. Watched the first 30 seconds of this and new exactly what to do.
Don't worry, Si, this video was quite handy. I'll watch it before I go to sleep.
well done Simon! I can't believe you managed to keep that to under 8 mins and explain it so well. Top class.
But what about BB-8?
You can leave, now!
+mrsherlocked will be hard to fit in your frame ;D
More videos like these! I thought it was awesome how you talked about the chronological order of each, sizes and methods of attachment and compatibility. Great video, Si!
I literally JUST bought a crankset for a bike I acquired on CL and don't know the first thing about bottom brackets. Thanks for such a cogent and thoughtful presentation. You ROCK.
the primary advantage of the square taper spindle cartridge bottom brackets is you could select a spindle length that would allow you to position the crank in any line that you would want relative to the cassette. doesnt appear that any of the other systems would allow for repositioning of the crank.
thanks very much for this! bottom brackets have been something i haven't been able to keep track of, so this was super informative and helpful!!
No one ever improved on the conventional threaded bottom bracket. All these pressed bearings are just cost savings passed on with the tagline of "increased stiffness". If they only put them on exotic bikes I might believe them....but does anyone really think an aluminium hybrid bikes needs a 10% stiffer BB? Threaded cups are expensive as they are a component unique to cycling, they require increased labour at the OEM factories to cut the threads. Press fit bearings are just bought from a catalogue, its a task every engineer is familiar with.....going on the skf catalogue and choosing a bearing. They even give you the CAD model.
BB30 is nothing more than a roller bearing with an inner diameter of 30mm and an outer of 42mm. You can get a bag of 50 of those bearing for under £5 from a bearing specialist, some don't even bother counting they just sell by the Kg.
But don't fool yourselves...its not like they use high quality Japanese bearings anyway!
No kidding. Not only is it awkward to put on there's little indication if that standard will continue to be used. Bsa forever.
Axles are a bigger headache now that QR isn't the only option for road bicyclists now and companies are figuring out what to steal from mountain bikers since disc brakes are popular.
+seanek9 Threaded bottom had their issues. First off, Italian threading needs to go the way of French and Swiss threads into obsolescence. I noted decades ago that bottom brackets were too narrow and too thin. Funny thing is that external bearing bottom brackets have addressed both concerns without requiring any changes. Right now your best bet is a British threaded 68mm bottom bracket with external cups.
+Bill Oooo'Reilly mainly because the stiffness comes from the frame not bearings and crank has very little to do with it too. So BB type doesn't matter, just depends on what standard the manufacturer uses. So basically, and Si did say this, different bottom brackets are only there so the manufacturer can say they've done something new. Doesn't matter which one you have they all work the same and there's a converter for everything now. Rotor makes two bottom brackets that will fit any frame and any crank so just get those two, any bike you want and any crank you want. Also, everyone will say companies scam you and it seems like they do, but it's not just bike companies. For example I work in a restaurant and food for 100 people costs under £250. Can you do that shopping in your local shop? So restaurants are a scam too? And you eat at them I assume.
Bmx bikes use press fit bb, they must be better for certain aspects otherwise they wouldnt be used to this day even on bikes that cost over £500-£600 and above
@@Hazeder422 not really.
You've got to be one of the best talkers on TH-cam, always a pleasure to listen to you explain things.
This one of your best videos ! Great job deciphering all this mess.
Some of my frames are 35 years old and I have no problem servicing them. But I can't imagine a pressfit BB frame still performing without creaks after 10 years. I find it depressing that modern frames are disposable.
I've got a titanium frame with PF30, without the bearing press tool.
I just pushed the cups in by hand as far and as straight as I could, laid the bike on its side, and placed a flat piece of wood over the cup then knocked it in with a rubber mallet.
Worked like a charm.
This was educational for those of us kind of new to road biking, thanks!
... making a Look 595 an outstanding frame choice, given its threaded bb and awesome features
Hi Si, thanks for informational videos. I changed my BB and the bike is riding like new. you have a calmness but confidence that helped guide my way. No more creaks!
Salute to you sir. You managed to sum up +20 yrs of tech progress (or regress) in under 8 minutes. My take is this is a classic case of manufacturers just going out there to create their own systems and calling it new tech without doing us mere mortals any favours about ease of maintenance, compatibility, functionality etc so they can sell more bikes and components.With BB design, it may benefit a 'if it ain't broken, don't fix it' type approach.
Sure glad I changed out the cranks on my Atala back in '74. A lot fewer choices to worry about.
One nice addition to this video would be to explain changing a press fit to threaded. There are a few companies who make those.
one nice addition would be to advice any buyers to stay away from press fit altogether and make sure whatever bike you buy is threaded... I seriously used that as a disqualifying mark when I was buying my last road bike, any non-threaded BB frames where automatically scratch from my list.... Maybe it makes sense for pro racers that do not have to give maintenence to their own bikes and possibly get a new frame every year... but for a bike enthusiast or even for an amateur racer who has to suffer through long rides with creaky BB I think press fit makes very little sense.
I'll stick with my Hollowtech for now as it's cheap and easy to service and it certainly doesn't creak.
my fave GBN personality; funny as hell. rock on Simon!
Thanks for this video. Very informative. Once I was confused, but I have more clarity on the different types of BBs available. Maybe you can do one video on headsets too. Threaded, non-threaded, integrated, semi-integrated, press-in cups....etc. Really got me head spinning when I was building my dream bike from sourcing all my parts online a while ago.
Just went from square taper to Hollowtech II BB and the difference is night and day imo. I Will never go back to a st bb ever again.
Thanks GCN! You just saved me a lot of time and my headache switched from BB-standards to consider wether to stick with my BB30 power meter or "upgrade" to a new more compatible one... :)
Yes :) Finally BB hell has been explained. Cheers mate.
this is actually really good and informative. thanks GCN!
My Cannondale CAADX 105 SE (mileage 1200km or 600miles) makes all kind of noises, from creaking to clonking. Amazing what sounds a cyclocross, that has just been ridden onroad, can produce. My first and last Cannondale.
I feel for you. Have you heard of Hambini bbs? Hes on TH-cam.
@@johndef5075 Thanks mate. I got rid of the CAAD already tho, it wasn't worth it
Good job GCN, this is the first time I fell asleep watching one your videos.
I didn't know there was that many types of BB :P , i'm still using square taper on my MTB and hollowtech on the road bike , the square taper BB had to be replaced for a new one after 14 years service and many thousands of miles , compared to hollowtech they are really heavy but bomb proof , I recon hollowtech will still be here 20 years from now just because like square taper it works and works well
I have FELT F5 with BB30, after 5 years I replaced the bearings for $25 last year, very happy with. I think I will stick with BB30 on my next project Chinese Carbon bike
Legend! Thanks Simon! Saving this video for when I do my bike build. Golden rules!
BB30 was used by manufacturers for 1 main reason - Cost. According to an article i read, it saves them 5 dollars per frame during manufacturing.
I'm not sure that's entirely fair to the manufacturers. There are some solid reasons for it, it's just the execution from some manufacturers lets it down from time to time.
+Simon Richardson there may be some reason. But the main reason is ease in manufacturing which translates to savings. Ill try to dig that article about how much the manufacturers save by not having to have threads on the BB, but if im not wrong its 5 dollars per bike.
I do believe it allows greater flexibility (lazy design) in frame design in that area as well, though I still prefer threaded BB for the reasons in this video.
learned that from an article did ya?
I'll keep it simple... I'll stick with the old square one... it works.
That works, I just changed my type of bottom bracket and I’m really happy with the external type
RT1, my own standard: one side threaded the other one pressed but the pressing surface outer ring is not completely round so you need a special bearing press and the crank is 20.1mm on one sied and 20.2 on the other side (the whole thing is set up that your frame cracks when you get it wrong)
Excellent video, dude! Thanks a lot here from Brazil.
Big thanks for this video. Now when bottom brackets come up in conversation I can just pull this video up and show my friends why I hate bottom brackets so much
What an informative video, this is good information to know.
I genuinely needed this! Can always rely on GCN for help :D
BSA bottom brackets 4ever. I hate creaks.
my favourite is square taper cup and cone - riding on proper 1/4" bearings will always be better than most of the toys shown here
Congrats Simon! you managed to say "bottom" more times than in any other GCN video.
Every minute of your life is one you will not get back. Good info, although you didn't go far enough back for me to find out what I needed. I'm restoring a 60s Monark Speed Racer. Weird stuff down there.
As I now own three bikes with press fit bottom brackets, I decided to bite the bullet and get a bearing press. Yes, it cost a good amount of cash, but I suspect it will pay for itself in the long run as I replace bearings in the various bikes.
The great thing about 'standards' is that there are so many to choose from.
That was a head fuck.
I have a press fit 30 and I’m changing it to a BSA for my bafang BBSHD motor
This was very helpful. However I disagree that bottom brackets shouldn't be considered when purchasing a bike.
I've reached the point on my Cannondale with BB30, where I should replace some drive train components. Mind you it's part due to bad conditions, an ungodly number of kilometres, and the ignorance that comes with your first bike.
I'm finding it incredibly difficult to find BB30 cranks. SRAM being the main one I can find, however they are twice the price of Shimano.
+Justin Verigin I would recommend a cannondale crank as they are superb, but they are also pricey. I agree, BB30 is a serious pain. If you want to use a shimano crank on a BB30 system, you can always buy some adapter cups (about 30 bucks from Praxis or Wheels Manufacturing), but yes, it is not a great solution.
I see coming in a near future the new "standard wars" about wheel axles. With disc brakes startig to enter road market, 12-15 PT, some with traditional axles, some frames include adapters, 9mm standard axle in the rear 12mm front... and that will affect your choice of wheels. Would be good to see a video about pros and cons, and also your idea/brands idea about what the standard will be.
About BB, as it was determined by frame manufacturer, now is another thing to look at when you choose your frame or bike. I am afraid of making the wrong choice and not being able to find BB or chairings for my axle in the mid future. Until now, Shimano is the best bet in terms of longevity in catalog, and actually much prefer threaded. Unfortunatelly, in mid-high end bikes each time is more and more difficult (even impossible) to get threaded BB. So, this video is ok, but I think is worth another one just about which one to choose.
Also I love the look of internal cables, but I hate them deeply. But none mid-high frame has external cabling any more.
This is probably the only GCN video I watched with half a cringe, paused 3 times so that I could refocus, was relieved at the end that it was over and then heartly hit that thumbs up.
Simon Simon Simon . Hollotech is not the BB but the crank arms . Hollowtech is the description of the crank arm manufacture process . The first gen hollowtech used Octolink BB .
Hollow tech is where a hollow tube of aluminium is cast and the ends forged closed before the pedal and bolt holes are machined out . The second gen Hollowtech now uses External 24mm and BB30 axle sizes . The process has been refined .
So a Shimano Hollowtech II crank can be external 24mm or PF30 or BB30 axle systems of even PF89 or PF90.
You can even get after market external BB's that work with the Shimano 24mm 2 piece axle system .
So once again to reiterate HollowTech is the crank set NOT the BB . (raceface for example and Aerozine , KCNC all use a 24mm 2 piece system but are not infringing on Shimano HollowTech as they use a solid machined crank arm ).
yeah but most people (and most sellers) just call the BB cups that comes with the shimano group set "Hollowtech 2 BB" even though the actual Hollow-Technology is in the interface between the crank arms and the spindle. Also, he did mention that with hollow tech the BB was actually attached to the crank and what goes to the frame is just the cups.
Even that is not hollowtech . Hollowtech is just the crank arms construction not the interface in any shape or form . The axle on the hollowtech II cranksets is the 24mm two piece crank system as used by :
RaceFace
Gusset
Aerozine
DMR
Shimano
KCNC
Rotor
SNAFU
Total
Stolen
Vocal
The Bottom bracket is a 24mm external shell . Now not all the companies use the external BB (SNAFU , Total , Stolen and Vocal being BMX using the Spanish press fit Bottom bracket) with the 24mm two piece interface.
It's important to understand and NOT mislabel vital parts of a bikes running gear . especially as these videos are designed to tell people the difference between BB systems . After all the External fit BB 24mm can fit the same cranks as some PF89 BB (for example a 83mm Shimano XT crank will fit in the PF89 frames) .
HollowTech is NOT a bottom bracket standard nor an interface .
edmundscycles1 wait..where is a shimano road crank that works with bb30?
Works the way it is supposed to. Just Good
This is useful ,I just replaced my treated bottom bracket .
completely head melting! as much as I don't want to, I think I have to watch this again to really get my bearings on this! 😂
Thx Si. Yet another reason I ride only lugged steel with English BB.
How many "standards" does it take until there is no standard?
All of them? 0.o
thank you guys! i'm one step closer to understanding this :-)
Damn the manufacturers for all these different standards.
don't forget FSA megaevo bottom brackets. their threaded version for bb386 or for 386evo cranks. IMO the best option. 30mm diameter threaded bb, the best.
The T47 is basically a threaded PF30. The good folks at Enduro Bearing shipped mine with adapters to fit SRAM GXP (24mm/22mm) so not just for 30mm spindle. Now if only my SRAM Etap would get here...
"There is no reason they should drive you to the point of insanity" Thanks, but true!
The solution is just to go to WheelsMfg and buy the 24mm adapter from whatever non 24mm BB you have. Even with a good bearing press, getting a BB30 bearing out or in, is not worth the hassle. If you do opt to stay with a BB30 crank, use ceramic bearings (you can get them a lot cheaper from industrial supply stores). They last a lot longer than steel and deal with dirt and water getting into them a lot better.
So close!!! These aren't quite the droids I am looking for.
Not ending there..... :)
Look BB65 ZED system
Frame requirements:
LOOK BB65 ZED frames with ID 65mm and 90mm width shell
Crank compatibility:
LOOK BB65 ZED crank with 50mm spindle
So what I want to know is which bottoms bracket is the best? I know it’s all subjective, but which one performs the best? Which one has had more issues? Which manufacture should I be avoiding because of their BB?
Sticking with my english threaded 9000 BB for a long time.
"What you need to know".. do you jump off a lot of stuff if "Y" then use 19mm 42 spline chromoly cranks. If "N" high quality square taper BB like Phil Wood with flex free cranks like White Industries VBC cranks with self extracting bolts.
Octalink wasn't bad assuming you didn't use a Dura Ace one, I remember all the team Saturn mechanics used Ultegra ones. ISIS was mostly crap, first generation of Hollowgram BB Nylon spacers wore really fast. I always switched to a HopeTech BB or used a bearing press put in Enduro bearing so there was metal on metal contact. GXP from SRAM worked well till they narrowed the BB width by .5 mm on each side from the silver to pewter colored BB. BB30 or OSBB on my CX was an utter nightmare, even with loctite 609 and/or 640, after I jumped off a couple curbs "creaky creaky...again" I finally just got treaded insert BSA and used permanent Loctite. Now I'm back to square taper on my road bike. Maybe T47 will solve it. I saw a few T47 at NABHS. Looks promising, but I'd prefer it be a three piece system with a cartage instead of through axle. Two piece through axels are elephant in the room.
One of other note and lets not forget Truvativ Oversized Downhill BB they proposed back in early 2000's so really T47 isn't a new idea.
www.mtbr.com/cat/drivetrain/bottom-bracket/truvativ/isis-overdrive-dh/prd_364454_104crx.aspx
"ISIS, which didn't sound quite so bad at the time". Now that is a funny, Monty-Python esque, line. :)
You might wanna Google ISIS history because they've been around for decades.
Ibuprofen anyone? Holy crud. Glad you guys chased this all down for us.
So about halfway through the video I've been convinced to just keep my square tapered. lol
Because what we need in life is three different square taper designs(JIS, JIS low-profile, ISO) 7-8 different spindle lengths, and having to have five tools instead of three for removal. pardo(dot)net/bike/pic/fail-001/FAIL-199.html
4 weeks earlier and this video could have saved me a lot of research :D good vid though!
Thank youuuu!! Love this video.
SI you are officially invited to my beautiful German hometown of Aachen! I need you to show me how to remove an old Octalink crank withouth the crank remover !
Actually the tool used to pressfit a bb doesn't have to cost a small fortune. While it is true that the park tool is quite pricey look up bikehand tools they make many of the same tools that park does and since I personally have very little use for a press but wanted one anyways I bought theirs for 50 us. I would still probably go to my local shop and borrow theirs if I needed to press fit a bb in a high end frame. Your the second youtube host i've commented on recently about the tools for bb's/headsets the only bike tools I know of that are crazy expensive with no way around it is the facing/threading tools otherwise the most expensive tool in my pretty vast collection is my stand and even that I got for 90 us and yes its a park stand got a steal on it.
So here's a conundrum. I have a bb30a which is 73mm wide so normal bb30 cranks won't fit but if i get a threaded converter for the frame can I fit the longer length crank axles? Obviously you'd have to factor in that the frame is wider and the BB sticks out further, so would it still be too wide? Basically cannondale say only fsa, rotor and cannondale cranks fit their bb30a frames and other bike shops say otherwise
Right that's it, I am sticking to riding my bike and watching races. There is no way mechanical stuff like this and me mix
@Global Cycling Network you cant remove an octalink crank with just an 8mm you have to use a crank remover. Also there are different thread types: englisch, ita and french. And you didnt mention lose bearing BBs.
A good reason to stick to one brand if you own and build many bikes, preferably Campagnolo, SRAM, or that fishing tackle company, what's their name again? I'm a Campagnolo type of guy and had only to worry about, square, PT, or UT cups, until I picked an FSA Gossamer GXP crankset, and now I really don't know what BB to order!
This is one of those videos where it takes 50 times of watching it over and over until you finally get it
I just get my LBS to do any issues with my BB
+Gibbo263 do you by any chance have the irremovable PowerTorque cranksets?
I'm going yo by the time I've bought the specialised tools needed it would pay for it to be done for me
Wish I had have watched this before I bought a new crank set. Then new bottom baracket. Then the adapters.
Could you guys make a video on how to prevent cramps when riding?
Cartridge BB's such as square taper or octalink are fit and forget, they are still the best for people who aren't concerned about efficiency. There is a lot that can go wrong with the newer hollow type cranksets and BB's if it is incorrectly installed or poorly maintained.
to some degree yes . If you don't face a frame off all BB will fail sooner than expected , though a BB from Rotor that are self aligning won't have this issue and are Shimano compatible . Of course if you get the wrong square taper BB then your also in for trouble too .
That rotor bb is cool, how well does it work?
It has a set of bearings inside a tapered shell . The bearings are free to float in the shell until the axle is slid into the bearings and loaded up . The system is pretty reliable .
That last point ties into the previous video qutie well: "Why are you sitting on and not taking your turn at the front?" "I would if it weren't for this threaded bottom bracket. It's holding me back."
There's a good hack for a bearing press very safe
ffs . Someone plz regulate this overkilling BB system . Is it really necessary to make every DIY biker to go thru this hell . Thank you for the explanation . Did great help .
It's pretty mind bending stuff 😵💫 Glad we can help!
Here's my problem: My son is riding mountains with a Cannondale BB30 and SI cranks 53/39. I am trying to convert him to 50/34. I remove left/right arms using self extracting 10mm allen. The spindle remaining is 104mm octalink looking thing. I am searching for a new crank. Many supposedly compatible BB30 cranks have a hollowtech spindle that seems permanently attached to the drive side. Will it work? Is it the right length? Other choices seem to include arms, but the chainrings are missing, and the separate spider rings are very expensive. Cannondale has got me very confused.
For leisure and endurance cycling, internal BB is way better in my opinion. Way more durable. Any loss of stiffness and increase in weight is negligible. Only really a factor if you are in to performance.
you should do a vid on the shimano 5800 ,6800 or 9000 front mechs as they are a pain to set up