Deep Space Nine Reviewed! (by a pedant) S2E02: THE CIRCLE
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
- Should've called their organisation "the Badly Drawn Oval With A Bit in the Middle".
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Today's Thought Experiment: Members of the Circle have shown they cannot consistently spray paint a circle, which is frankly embarassing. I want a new name for them that even the most cack-handed graffiti artist can't get wrong.
The Wonky Doodle?
The Wibbly
The Geometrical Diversity
Romanes Eunt Domus?
The "God, We should invest in some compasses, eh?"
I love the way Vedek Winn makes such a "generous" offer to Kira. "Please stay [in the monastery] as long as you'd like. Even a week!"
"...if necessary."
Vedek Bareil likes to take his time.
Bow chikka bow bow@@MKDumas1981
It is a great mix of subtle writing and perfect delivery by Louise Fletcher; she makes each line say 'Fuck off' as clearly as if she where shouting it at Kira whilst not saying anything outright rude to her.
The blue ball joke was brilliant
Must not let this go unnoticed
Keep calling them Cardigans, never change 😊
I prefer Kardashians!
In the same sector as the nearby Jersey system.
He's got me doing it now, I was talking about a later episode with my SO and called them Cardigans without even thinking about it.
Technically speaking TNG had the first three part Trek arc. The episode Family dealt directly with the consequences of the Borg invasion from Best of Both Worlds.
This was such a fun episode. The scene with everyone showing up at Kira's quarters and her heartfelt "these are my friends" is wonderful. Louise Fletcher easily outshines Frank Langella in the villain department. The way she smiles at Kira while telling her "stay as long as you need... Even a week."
I don't count that as a three parter. There was no "To be Continued" after Best of Both worlds part 2.
I consider it a follow up to a two parter.
@@Norvo82 Wynn was an excellent villain throughout the show, a combination of great writing and flawless delivery by Louise; she made every sentence she said to Kira say "fuck off" in bold subtext whilst never actually saying anything directly negative.
I do find it interesting that we sometimes see the few positives of her personality, even in this arc; until near the end of the show she was unwilling to betray her world to the cardigans.
@@dm121984 I dunno... Winn was always strictly motivated by acquiring power. First by rising through the ranks of the Vedek Assembly to become Kai, then by becoming prime minister.
She even stopped the Prophets from bringing on the restoration of Bajor because she feared it would make her unnecessary. She loathed the fact Sisko had a better relationship with the Prophets and in the end switched sides to join the Pah'Wraiths so she could have her revenge on those who denied her.
You might say her behavior is the result of the Occupation and that she did what she had to do to survive... But I honestly don't believe she ever did one completely selfless act?
Deeply agreed with you on the scene in Kira's quarters. It's actually one of my favourite scenes of the whole series; the way it pivots from increasingly ridiculous comedy into that sudden deeply honest and heartfelt moment is just a thing of beauty.
@@Norvo82 Well. She did do *one* completely selfless act. Right before she got roasted for it. It's not exactly redemption, but it's a step above Dukat at least.
Something I find interesting about Winn is that, in her own way, she truly believes at all times she's doing what's right for Bajor, like a dark mirror version of Kira (who is often very worried about whether or not she's doing the right thing for Bajor). She's not an unbelieving spiritual hypocrite just using the mechanisms of religion to gain power; she believes. It's just that she thinks she herself *having* power is *always* what's right for Bajor, even in the face of her own gods going, "Nah".
I'm pretty sure Sisko realised the 2-person transporter limit was a problem, and had O'Brien fix it after the rescue mission, and before being allowed to shower.
O’Brien can be allowed to sonic shower in the small engineering corridors as soon as he installs them.
A little tweak to the biofilters and he can transport and shower in one go
On the Cardigans. I imagine that they always planned to engineer a return and this is one of the reasons they didn't just scuttle Terok Nor.
A Federation presence on Bajor just further diminishes their own ability to project power, after all. The wormhole probably just sped up their schedule, making it more of a priority and making the voices in the military shouting that they never should have left that much louder.
Benny Sicko breaking the Prime Directive to win is what I love about Benny Sicko.
Cockney is now canonically the natural accent of the Prophets and nothing can change my mind.
King Sid James agrees!
Cor! look at the size of those orbs!
Yak Yak Yak!
ffs. I'm going to have to do this from now on, aren't I?
@Unlimited_Lives Yes you must!
You've made your Cockney bed me old China plate now lay in it and have a knees up!
@@Unlimited_Lives Yes.
I just assumed that the prophets are, in fact, space dogs.
Nice catch on the transporter limit. I mean they oculd have just said the limit was 5 or 6 as I think there were 12 prisoners in the last episode. Normally I think of this show being above these little goofs, but it's good to catcht hem when they happen.
2:11 Fiddling with Sisko's ball is tight!
its super easy, barely an inconvenience
wowowowow wow wow!
@@ravenclawtom: Oh, really?
That opening scene is classic comedy of errors. "No I haven't, no they didn't, no he doesn't" 😂😂😂 as a fan of Marivaud, Ionesco and Feydeau I eat those first few minutes like candy yum yum 😋
"Yes, I do care. No, they haven't; no, they didn't."
It's not entirely a bespoke three-part story, but the TNG season 3 cliffhanger story "The Best of Both Worlds" has a coda episode titled "Family", whose A-plot is him returning to his family's vineyard in France as a part of dealing with the trauma he underwent being assimilated by the Borg.
Less a cerulean orb and more of a blue ball 😂😂😂
This could be considered the episode that sets the stage for DS9 being a serialized show. Lots of stuff placed to be referenced later on.
Isn't there a TNG episode (Redemption?) where Picard is told by the admiralty that he can't do anything to stop the Duras sisters winning a civil war with Gowron for control of the Klingon Empire, until he says the Romulans are supplying one side with weapons, and then he's given command of a literal fleet to stop that interference? Isn't this pretty much the same thing?
Yes, but there's also that the Klingon Empire is a long-time ally, and a major interstellar power. Bajor is in the throes of figuring out who they are following the occupation, was a backwater prior to the wormhole, and has only really interacted with the federation for less than a year.
@@thegreenmanofnorwich And they're really taking the PD to the limit by just putting up a blockade to prevent outsiders to enter Klingon space.
Redemption never made any sense to be fair.
Not only were the Klingons a military ally but Gowron was the legitimate rand legal head of state who formally requested help.
The Prime Directive shouldn’t have applied at all, it wasn’t a civil war, it was an insurrection.
@@zephyr8072 It was a civil war, because the Klingon Empire isn't a democracy, it's a feudal elective empire.
@@vrenak In which Gowron was installed as leader.
His challenger had no legal right to the Chancellorship and only got support due to bribes and intimidation. It's therefore blatantly clear who the rightful ruler is, and it doesn't stop being an insurrection because it's not a democracy.
Ah, the Bajor experiences a coup episode, and unlike real life those behind it do end up punished somewhat. Part 2 of 3.
I remember not liking this episode that much when it was released but as an older viewer, I appreciate it much more. A lovely episode that shows Starfleet's line, how Bajorians aren't a total monoculture (even if they get close to it) and how what happens on Bajor affects the station. Something they don't really focus on as much in later seasons, suggesting Bajor is more stable in general after this.
Episode thoughts:
Is Odo out of hair gel?
No one fondles Siskos ball
The Mcrib noses badges are a HSE nightmare
Is Kira auditioning for a Peter Pan Panto?
Important lessons in that three episode arc....
The TNG Conspiracy plotline TECHNICALLY lasted a few episodes, with hints and buildup to it, but the actual story itself was only in one episode.
It was actually handled pretty well really; there is definitely a balance between episodic and continuing story arcs, and TNG was more heavily leaning on episodic, DS9 leaned increasingly into continuing arcs as it went on. I like Strange New Worlds for it's balance between the 2
The prophets see all over time itself but don't understand the concept of "linear", so these visions sometimes show what happens later but not always in a manner someone can understand. But that doesn't account for alternate futures that time travelers change, the multiverse, etc.
Arrmin Shimerman once proposed another story where the Bajorans would go militant again, locking up non-Bajorans into camps. It was rejected but he wrote it as a non-canon novel.
As you already said, Sisko specifically didn't violate the Prime Directive. He engaged in malicious compliance. It is established that the PD does in fact mean you can't leave Federation technology behind.
Also, nice cameo from Spacedog in the actual review.
You could potentially argue that the first three-parter was in TOS - The Cage and The Menagerie. Very much depends on your definition.
"Less of a cerulean orb and more of a blue ball" almost killed me! I should not watch this channel while eating XD
Great vid as always, superb outtro 😂😂😂
Insightful as always! Also: looking forward to the new voice, if actual!
4:28 Blue balls are tight!
wow wow wow
@@ravenclawtom ..... wow
Yeah, yeah, yeah!
"Dirty.. little.. bastard." lmao
Push The Button! Dah dah dah! I have a feeling the admiral already knew how Sisko would react. I remember at the time, this was the first 'real' war story of DS9 and was considered something of a ground breaking concept.
8:29 Thumbing paperwork is tight!
Khan, Spock, Voyage. But probably the first TV 3-parter.
Here's a crack theory: This is where Bashir was replaced. The reason why the Dominion picked the Cardassians to align with is because they'd already infiltrated the Cardassians (considering them the biggest threat closest to the wormhole), and they were involved in trying to destabilize Bajor
Heh... Can you imagine Deep Space Nine in the middle of season 5 getting clueless-horny-frontier-medicine Julian back. Talk about a complete tonal shift.
Except that the Dominion hadn't even discovered the wormhole yet
They say that the network wanted them to get away from the politely story lines. Not sure if thats true, but I really enjoyed it.
This episode was actually on Sky Mix yesterday.
The device must be similar to the Orb used in Woody Allen's 'Sleeper'.
Although, the Orgazmatron would seem more appropriate for nudey fun times.
But what do I know. I am unaware of alone time using such things...
On the other hand...
Not the first episode where I wondered why DS9 didn't have its own Federation starship. The mega shuttles don't count and neither does the Defiant that they get later as they're no where near capable of evacuating DS9 if things go sideways as they are in this episode.
I believe it was because of production not really giving DS9 the resources it needed, and wanting the show to stay focused on being a space station. Obviously this changes later, but we are still early in the series so it will take a little bit of more time.
@15:11 - the prophets speak in Space Dog lilt - maybe the Space Dog species is an offshoot of the prophet aliens!
I'm just here for the blue ball. Le woof!
I like that anything you see in the Orbs isn’t new or manufactured by the Prophets. They only take from your mind to try to tell you something.
This means, Kira and/or Barial has already been fantasizing about each other, even if only subconsciously.
I'm not even sure they're trying to tell them something, and not just playing their own thoughts at them.
I enjoy the interaction between Odo and Quark but find the interaction between Kira and Bariel super cringe. This is true for me throughout the series.
Thanks for another great review 💚🌹💚 enjoy your weekend
Maybe I'm glossing over Kira-Bareil because that's not really a point of interest for me, or maybe I'm just comparing it to the often awful examples we were shown in Voyager. I certainly got a new respect for that show after rewatching it but **woof**, a fair chunk of the romance stuff was garbage.
Enjoy your weekend too!
I'm on the fence about whether or not the Prophets were always deliberate, conscious social engineers, although they definitely were some of the time. After all, what could possibly make it easier to play 4D chess, than actually living in 4D? They weren't as fully hands on as Q, though. I think it was more a case that they'd give the Bajorans a nudge if they thought something genuinely serious was happening, that needed to be steered past, but that they were content to leave them alone the rest of the time.
The Prophets didn't know about linear time when they sent the orbs, so they can't have been designed to prophesy things
Alternatively,
The Prophets didn't know about linear time until the pilot, but they were still fundamentally non-linear and could've chose much later to send the orbs centuries ago
circleish! yellow paint!
I'm in a TH-cam video (or at least in the end credits)! Yeah!!!!
Welcome! You're now official USS Pedant canon (which, according to the T&Cs of your contract, means you can be used as ammunition for the cannon if we run out of cadets).
What is this dune you speak of ... perhaps you should review it for those who would love your opinion of it like myself ... and you should review sg1
@@alexneffHe made general summary in the review.
Ever hear that David Bowie had an acting career?
So is Kira pointing eyes at a BLUE "orb" the spice, and Vedik Sin is telling her it must flow (since she seems to be full of it)?
@LucasKeesee-vm8yp joking bro ... I have sting in a speedo hanging above my bed
@LucasKeesee-vm8yp did you confuse David bowie with sting
@@alexneff
Yes! Yes I did! And there's only one way to know that! Learning!
The drippy dot?
1:00 So, a sweater vest?
You could consider best of both worlds 1and 2 and family. As a three parter
I don't. No "To be continued".
You can skip the "Third" episode completely and the first two hold up as one story.
@dyne313 but if you skip bobw and just watched family you would be lost
9:58 Voyager established during the episode with the klingons wanting to blow up their own ship, that the transporters can be used to transport more people than can fit on a transporter pad. It's also established in TNG in the episode with the binars that site to site transports exist (also established in voyager). So I'm willing to dismiss this part as being cannon, and they just weren't too concerned about those "safety reasons" when transporting into a combat situation.
Maybe the Cardigans had a transporter dampening field up that would limit the number of people that could be teleported at one time to prevent a mass escape. Since it was just a labor camp, it’s not like they needed a strong transporter dampener to do the job, just enough to limit transport.
Yeah I know this is a lot of heavy lifting to cover for a plot hole, but I would like to think of transport limiters being a thing in Trek to prevent armies from just teleporting around.
@@Ceece20 Well in Star Trek: Insurrection transporter jammers were used on the ground to block transport, and tags used to counter the jammers. I don't see why limiters wouldn't exist / work.
@@raymondgradzewicz yeah I do remember that now. Transporter limiters could be a passive field that just limits the number that could be transported at a given time and could be programmed to whatever limit the plot requires.
It's not the first time transporter limits will be ignored and it won't be the last, but it directly contradicts something said in the preceding episode of the same story, which is why it gets a mention here.
Kira: What? Is there any way of beaming up more than two at a time?
O'Brien: I'm afraid not.
I suppose it makes a change from all the times we've teleported through shields because the writers forgot, so that's something.
I think that so near to the station it would be easy to get some other teleporters into position; roundabouts, another megashuttle, the captains extra small because he's not a captain yacht, ships of people visiting the the station that be convinced to help somehow, flat pack transporters that would be installed for the various situations were they have to do a lot of teleporting quickly.
TL,DR: the Cardassians are basically Russia
I've seen every video you've ever posted, and only just realised I'm not subscribed.
Better fix that.
To be honest, I've binged channels and forgot to subscribe before so you're in good company. Welcome!
How does isis mass work? First he is a mouse then a person
You... um... I presume mean Odo there. My head-canon? He's either a thin film of goop when he's humanoid-shaped meaning he's actually hollow (which has some appropriate symbolism I think), or the mouse is made of neutronium.
@@Unlimited_Lives
One of the writers had a kid that REALLY liked Soundwave, and was like:
"If it's good enough to sell toys, it's sure to win the nerds still watching this."
Odo even:
Worked for the bad guys.
Monitors the base, inside and out.
Makes the small fry do his bidding.
Speaks matter-of-fact compared to even the boss.
Uses arguably the coolest power of all ONLY when everyone has their backs turned.
Literally his means of infiltration is to be cared in and left to lone-wolf it.
I always had trouble getting into DS9 from the very beginning and I've been using these reviews to try and remember where it completely lost me. I think it was here. I generally detest stories about religion and stories about politics. Put both together and, yes, that's enough to make me stop watching. I did pick up DS9 again years later out of morbid curiosity and notice that I didn't miss much. Oh well. Six seasons of this left and then we can get back to good stuff.
@Jamie_Pritchard It's not the worst, but it's way down there. DS9 has its good moments, but most of it is terrible and Brooks's wretched acting doesn't help.