I'm only adding timestamps for IDs that were moved, if you have a gripe or I missed something then let me know in the reply comments 0:00 - Stream starts 3:46 - Dog (Rogan) ranking and excess rambling begins 10:30 - Obligatory crab song 12:36 - Reordering begins / Ring Yi Sang 16:50 - Regret Faust (2:13:56) 18:15 - Warp Don (1:57:16 rip ) 20:51 - NClair is a girlboss 21:58 - Tingtang Hong Lu (57:52) 21:58 - Warp Yi Sang 21:58 - Reindeer Ishmael 23:22 - Liu Ishmael 23:35 - Chef Ryoshu 25:57 - Butler Outis 27:38 - Molar Outis 28:42 - Seven Faust 28:52 - Butler Ryoshu 33:00 - Der Shootis 34:10 - Edgar Gregor 38:16 - Oufi Heathcliff (1:02:01) 43:30 - Spicebush Yi Sang 46:12 - Zwei Gregor 49:32 - Ring Outis 50:10 - Rosespanner Rodion 51:00 - Middle Don 53:14 - Rhino Meursault 54:00 - BL Faust 56:42 - BL Don 1:02:55 - This comment aged well 1:07:27 - "Potential" Man 1:09:20 - Maid Ishmael (1:13:50) 1:10:49 - Molar Yi Sang 1:11:10 - LCCB Ishmael 1:13:11 - Dieci Yi Sang 1:13:22 - KK Ryoshu 1:15:24 - G Corp Outis (Welvander jumpscare) 1:16:28 - Middle Meursault 1:18:55 - LCB Outis 1:22:04 - LCB Ishmael 1:24:43 - Yurodivy Ryoshu 1:26:58 - Cinq Don 1:27:20 - Yurodivy Hong Lu 1:31:15 - T Corp Rodion 1:34:50 - T Corp Don 1:38:17 - Dieci Meursault 1:43:11 - Warp Outis 1:44:47 - BL Yi Sang 1:47:27 - Multicrack Heathcliff 1:50:34 - Multicrack Faust (RIP, you were top 10 for only 15 minutes) 1:53:26 - Wild Hunt Heathcliff (*chat glazing intensifies*) 2:02:49 - Dieci Rodion is dethroned but not really 2:05:08 - Red Eyes Ryoshu 2:11:10 - Butterfly Yi Sang 2:26:10 - Patron Librarian Tier List 2:36:18 - Abnormalities Smash or Pass 2:48:42 - Bygone Days Ishmael Review 2:51:07 - Amazon Delivery Rodion Review Best Tremor Team - (42:06) LCCB Ishmael, Molar Outis, Regret Faust, Rosespanner Rodion, T Corp Don, Yurodivy Hong Lu "Where is Deyvat Rodion" Count: *4* 7:30, 13:43, 18:01, 44:31 "Happy Birthday ESGOO" Count: *8* 7:47, 8:17, 8:59, 9:15, 9:24, 10:36, 10:53, 1:21:35 Lob Corp Abnormalities: The Burrowing Heaven - 35:44 Price Of Silence - 59:53 Schadenfreude - 1:03:21 [CENSORED] - 1:20:02 Other Goobers: Gebura - 39:03 Jun - 40:56 Gregor - 54:14 Hod - 1:05:55 Cinq Don - 1:53:47
While I agree with most of what you say, I thinkyou overvalue geeralists. If you use a ID you will in most cases build a team for that purpose, using ID's that synergize with each other
@@ThroughArbitersandClaws we really need more 7 association ruptures. It's insane that W sang is better in a 7association rupture team than 7 yi sang. Ryoshu also doesn't do anything for rupture lol
Didn't reach stream in time. WildHunt Heathcliff does NOT need a sinking team, I don't know what kind of pipe you were smoking. It's nice, but it's not needed.....*like you know, the other characters in the god tier*. And the fact that lament is spammable thanks to counter means his damage has higher peaks than what you give him credit for, plus with it being more on demand. I've seen him rolling two heads with that thing with 4-5 coffins and dealing more damage than most ID nuke skills on enemies with neutral resistance or even sin/type resistance against it. Wildhunt with max coffins is the best ID in the game but since he needs time to get there, I definitely think him being in the top 5 is more justified.
If I ever said “need” I didn’t mean that, words get tricky when there’s 2 thousand people talking to you, what I wanted to say was he wants a Sinking Team and enemies to kill, which is pretty much objectively true. He definitely doesn’t need a Sinking team, he cares much more about having bodies he can put in coffins
@@therealESGOO That's like saying Ring Yi Sang wants a team with a bunch of different status effect types (preferably Burn, Tremor, Bleed) to make procing his rerolls easier, which is also objectively true. He wants it, but clearly doesn't need it, which only makes a case for both of their values in terms of being generalists. You can even say that Bamboo Hatted Meursalt wants a Blade Lineage team, and that's also objectively correct, yet he's so strong by himself that he can be run by himself in a random team and he'd still do great. Wildhunt Heath only needs 4-5 coffins before he starts to steamroll everything (which he can reliably get thanks to counter) so I really don't see how hyperfocusing on the fact that he wants a sinking team matters that much when he can be run in any team and he'd still do god's work. Your point about him needing kills is true, which is why I'm saying that he should be in top 5 and not top 1 because he still needs time to get to his full strength (even if gaining coffins is as reliable as it is if you know how to cycle Dullahan).
Agreed with WH Heath 'in encounters with enemies to kill' being an entirely different beast, but I think there are (and will be) more scenarios than one would expect where he can suddenly spike in scaling. Portrait of a Certain Day in RR4 comes to mind-- it's not exactly that kind of encounter, but come turn 4 you can drop a S3-1 on the master's portrait and instantly land yourself with 6 Coffin. I think it'll be interesting to see what kinds of bosses pop up in the future where you can sneak yourself a ton of Coffin at once. Definitely not as fast as, say, the Casetti fight (or even King in Binds)-- but much faster than just trying to climb your way up 2 Coffin at a time.
I actually think Wildhunt Heathcliff is a top 5 ID He doesn't need to get to 10 Coffin to be good; 4-6 and he is already really really insane. So even in fights where there's nothing to kill, he still ramps up fast enough to be great; And in fights with bodies to kill, he's prolly top 2 behind RingSang. My top 5 will prolly go RingSang WRyo BlSault DieciLu WildCliff (Top 2 if it's multiwave fights).
I'll be honest, magic bullet is such a mistreated placement on this tier list. It's not a bad practice to value generalists that act well outside of their archetype or have self-filling conditionals. But when you both attach value to generalists AND punish specialists for being specialists, you are heavily biasing just unga boonga units and participating in power creep culture. Magic bullet has great clashing, she is tailor made for burn, why are you trying to rip her out of her team comp? "I'd rather use W Sang than Magic bullet" I am sorry, where, exactly? In Burn? Surely not. In unga boonga team? Why would you use W Sang in a team like that in the first place? There is no competition between these 2 IDs because if you use W Sang as a generalist, you loose on better IDs like Ring, Outis doesn't even appear in the competition. She is unmatched in Burn and has no replacement and no competition there. She can't hold a candle to Ring since he is a one man army but she can't compete with Molar? Seriously? Why, because you can put Molar in a mashed comp where there is almost certainly a better replacement for her because she is also a specialist? I can understand the placements of Sink IDs because they all contribute to the damage output kinda similarly. Outis IS the Burn team damage. On that alone she should be in S tier. She IS the archetype. Molar makes Sinking stay afloat. But give Sinking a little more count and she is gone. Outis will likely never leave. And I am not even talking about talisman staying in A because "he makes the archetype sing" and Outis doesn't get S because she doesn't do good outside of archetype 🤔. I really don't like this approach. Conditional strength is a more interesting and engaging type of strength. In-archetype strength is more unique than "ha-ha 30 base power bonk". If a character can be strong outside of his team, its good and it should be accounted. If a character is strong in her comp, it shouldn't be punished for being strongest in it. And Outis is the queen of burn. Not Liu Rodion. Unless its a generalist tier list and I missed something.
To be fair, Magic Bullet isn't even a specialist, you can just throw her in a random team with Dawnclair and they are basically enough by themselves to be a full burn team while the 4 other IDs can just do whatever they want. Hell, you can probably just put Ring Yi Sang with her with no other burn support in there and his random burn count is probably enough to keep her going and letting her put enough burn to be full power
esgoo is stuck between being completely unable to catch a break and also causing his own downfall by sounding vaguely Bostonian. what an unfortunate character
@SuperDawsome pequod heathcliff has 3 sins. Envy on skill 3 and 2, pride on skill 1, and wrath on counter. Bl Mersault has pride on skill 1 and 2, wrath on skill 3 and envy on counter. Bullet Outis has pride on skil 2, 3 and guard and wrath on skill 1.
As a RoseSault enjoyer, i feel physically unwell by the Rosesault slander in this stream when your upset at RoseGreg. The RoseSault community shall remember this /silly
What's the proper channel to report a bug to PMoon? Trying to use the md replace skill function on the new Rodion ID instantly causes the game to crash on Android. I've done it multiple times, so it's consistent as well. Might be for all replace skills, though I haven't tested it yet.
Found it. In the settings, it's Misc. > Customer Service > General > and tapping on the email instantly starts a bug report email to them. Sent it in, so hopefully, it gets fixed soonish. I really want to use her S3 some more (and some lunacy would be nice too).
I would like to note that wh heathcliff is insane not in a sinking team but rather in a lust whistle (nfaust passive) spam team. In a whistle spam team wh guarantees lust with counter and can immediately mount on t1 due to whistle. Ideally you put him on position 1 so he can gain coffin faster from s3 + counter when mounted. The sinking part of wh doesn't really matter much since wh's s4 damage comes from coffin mainly.
Generally a pretty good list though I kinda disagree with all the factors being wishy washy in application. "No ID has ego except Meursault always has regret but also this ishmael ID will have this EGO in this specific circumstance so it goes up a rank" or "This ID sucks but with [extremely specific team IE needs BL Meursault] its great" doesnt really apply to their individual strength does it? No wonder chat was so argumentative but ultimately its all for fun.
Mister cube-man, I have 2 things I want to ask, one is more doable than the other one... First, could you please, PLEASE do the "uptie/threadspin priority" list again? No matter if it's on video or stream format... It's been a while and you know... The IDs/EGOs are coming but until KJH changes the mirror, resources are on an all-time-low, specially for newer players... That was that, and now a bigger ask... After ruminating on the tier list and making off stream final adjustments, could you, pretty please, do a video on the list? I know explanations are more important than placements, but not everyone has the time to watch a 3 hour long stream... And having no explanation at all (just posting the tier list on the community tab) is the extreme opposite... A TL;DW video with the broad strokes of the changes and additions is something that, while I recognize is a big ask, I think is still relatively reasonable And that's all I wanted to say Thanks for everything
I don't understand why outis is lower than Liu ish and rodya. Yes, she have low lows, but with multiwave content, her skill 3 even in non-burn team is amazing and she overall clash pretty well. Also, she is singlehandedly save the burn archetypes, and because now burn have 3 solid ID other than outis that are "free" (can always get in the shop), it's not like that her team is somewhat disfunctional, and her celieing can be only higher with time.
This whole idea of "good but only in burn team" is a bad take as a whole. You can give advantage to IDs that can perform well in and out of archetypes but you shouldn't punish specialists. Not every ID needs to be just Unga Bunga by themselves. The notion breeds powercreep and makes creating more nuanced characters less likely. Esgoo L
No, genuinely, why is Pequod Heathcliff in S tier? I thought I was missing something, so I went and checked on his kit, and even played him in a few different gamemodes, and unless you hard commit to an envy team, he is unbearably middling. His clashing is shit for a 000, with his S1 and S2 hard capped at 11 and 16, and only his S3 getting any clash or coin power, and it's entirely envy res reliant. While the bleed count from S2 could be incredibly good, he has no lust other than his HE EGO, so he'd struggle on current bleed teams, and they wouldn't even support his Envy res well either. And with his poise being reliant on his terrible S1 for count and needing a ton of bleed to get decent amounts of poise porency from S2 and S3 having only the slightest but of poise synergy, he's a pretty terrible poise unit outside of MD as well. And absolutely not with the "but 99% damage" argument, he'll either be long dead from getting absolutely dogged on in his staggered state since his is so high up that it's practically a lose turn option when he uses his counter move, or the enemy will be long dead before he gets beat enough to get a decent amount of damage bonus in the first place. He is just so far from being a good generalist that it makes no sense for him to be in S.
It's like you said you were missing something. like the part about him being an aggro tank which is just a really good archetype. plus the part where he only has one stagger treshhold at 80%. and his passive and counter being able to stack def lvl ups(his counter is conditional but you basically get the passive for free in every fight). also the offense lvl up of the passive scales up pretty nicely with his missing hp %dmg increase. play him on a poise team, envy team, bleed team or just throw him in to take aggro he does his job great. his clashing is also just not shit? he also just doesn't struggle on current bleed teams. why mention him not having lust? if you're playing a team to solely min max the resonance on sanguine or contempt just don't bring him(even though he literally has all th e ego resources both of those need outside of lust so he works perfectly fine) or just run hex nails instead. he got a really nice ego recently as well in fell bullet that gives him basically free !POISE! and applies bleed. 4 of his egos also have passives that synergize really well (binds, la sunyata, holiday and fell bullet) so throw him on any team and trigger one of those. why complain about his rating when you left out the best parts about his kit? i understand maybe arguing about him not being so high in s... personally think he and pequod ish are pretty similar in strength but 4 placements up or down in the highest tier really doesnt matter all that much. you arguing him not belonging in s tier at all just makes me wonder what kind of team or skill order you were using when testing him.
@kires421 Funniest thing I've read all day: "aggro tank which is just a good archetype." Aggro tanks are a joke. Aggro doesn't work in unfocused fights, and in focused fights, aggro RNG is pretty damn unreliable. And as ESGOO himself had put multiple times, usually while trash-talking Sloshmael: "Why not just bring more damage?" My point with the stagger threshold is that he literally has to lose a turn in order to get low enough to start stacking some decent damage, technically 2 if he doesn't draw enough aggro and has to manually use his counter to redirect enough damage to get the stagger (and again, aggro is still very RNG reliant). As I mentioned before, outside of MD, his poise gain just isn't very good on poise teams, and while fine, he doesn't have to have lust to fit in on bleed team, the envy res that he desperately wants to make his one hard-hitting attack actually hit hard is just not abundant enough on teams that can make good use of his bleed-based poise gain. I mentioned his clashing because ESGOO weirdly said his clashing was good even though, compared to most other good 6*s, the only skill of his that actually gains any more clashing and coins is his S3, which is 1. Is far less abundant than his S1 and S2, so you don't get it as often 2. relies entirely on Envy Res, which means you have to actively drop what you're doing and make his teammates play their envy skills that turn or else he doesn't get that much big damage, which could be a huge opportunity cost depending on what other skills or EGO you might want to play that turn. And look at almost any other ID in S tier (and a ton in A tier as well) and see how so many at have conditionals on their S2s and/or S1s that at least them match the average Canto 5 onward's mid-level attack coin power. His S1 is permanently stuck at 11 (which fine, he has his counter [that he doesn't use when he staggers], so whatever for that), and his S2 at 16. Bringing up Fell Bullet is also just absolutely laughable. Have you even looked at that EGO? You only gain highest res + 1 poise, +2 if absolute res, so if you get a perfect 6 pride absolute res, you get a whopping 9 poise potentency, and guess what? It's a 2 coin skill that only gives you +1 poise count, meaning it's possibly negative poise balance. And the bleed? 5 potency. Beyond Ya Sunyata's passive, he doesn't have that much specific synergy that you couldn't just get with most other Heathcliff units. Rabbit and Multicrack benefit as much from Holiday's passive and relying on it to bleed wouldn't even work because you'd need a ton of gluttony to get enough bleed for poise gain. And any of them would make pretty good use of Binds, and fine, again in the very specific envy team setup, he gets more value out of Binds passive, but again S tier is meant for generalists that actually do worthwhile stuff on any team they are in, or for IDs that make the specific teams they are in absolutely bonkers to where it's more than worth building around them. Those non-generalist IDs that make up the majority of S tier and near the top of A tier are ones that absolutely make or break the very strong teams teams that they reside in, and while an Envy team would break if it lacked Pequod Heathcliff, envy teams just aren't all that powerful yet, fun, but not game-changing. If envy team gets enough synergy and power to truly contend with the big status teams in the future, then maybe I'd consider him to be S tier. But right now I'd say he's, at best, below Multicrack Heathcliff and above W Yi Sang.
Read Fell Bullet's passive. He is a poise id with a pride s1, which guarantees his spot in the bl team with cap ish. His middling poise potency gain is fixed by an ego that is available as early as turn 2. Your claim about his damage being low is absolutely ridiculous. An id with 2-3-4 coins that can now crit consistently and dish out even more damage the lower hp he has is bad? While not on the level of recent id, if you use him correctly, his damage should always be higher than 4/6 of the team you run him in. You also underestimate how high ~230 hp is. Unless you let ricardo use all his skills on him or sth, he will never die on the turn where he gets staggered and after. Also, this might surprise you. This is a team-building game where you can redirect the attacks. Unless you are a buffoon, he will never die with that kind of hp. And guess what? More damage the lower the hp. Losing one turn is nothing compared to the extra damage you gain the following turns which makes the loss of one turn laughable. Plus, he still isn't fully useless while he is staggered because yknow, he can still function as a TANK. Tank, aggro, high hp, deals higher damage the lower hp he has is an absolute bonker combination. His only downside is that he does not function well in short-form content, which is similar to many ids released recently. Also, all that talk about not being useful outside of md and you fail to ever mention rr. The team you run him in, or atleast the team you should, has plenty of envy skills for him to reasonably achieve 4-res: Yi sang's skill 3, Don's 2 skill 2s, Ish's 3 skill 1, Meursalt's counter, not even mentioning heath's s3 already counts towards the res. Now I'm just wondering if this is just incompetence in team-building or in game-plan or both on your part.
@HawaiiPart Alright, I think I get the game plan that you need to reasonably make use of Heathcliff on Poise teams in long form challenge content, particularly RR. I still have issues with it, but first, let's lay the game plan out here: The team is BL Meursault, BL Don, BL Yi Sang (could try Pequod Yi Sang for easier Envy access than an S3, but would miss out on how strong BL is in this team), BL Faust, Captain Ishmael (she's honestly not that great of poise unit specifically, but her pride res synergy combined with how strong her S2 and S3 are even without poise make up for it), and the star of the show, Pequod Heathcliff. Now, let's get into the main issue with his poise: In long form content, it's not a lack Poise potentency that holds him back, especially if you decide to use his Fell Bullet and it's passive, far from it. The real issue is his poise count gain. His only sources of count gain are +4 from his S1, +1 from Fell Bullet, and +2 if Don's S3 applies the count gain to him. Gaining poise potentency is detrimental to him early on as he wants to farm up as much count (and mind his sp) as he can so that when he does actually get the opportunity to Envy res into S3, he can actually crit more than halfway through the skill before crapping out on count. The fact that his S1 is generally terrible at clashing ends up actually playing a part in his kit as he'll actually want to lose the clash (it's like Sloshmael 2.0 funnily enough) so that he can get the count gain without potentially criting, while also taking more damage to fuel up his passive. Because, if he ever uses his S2 or S3 when he's criting consistently, that's 3-4 count he's eating up with no count gains minus potentially Don S3. Hell, during that period, even his S1 (if it clash wins or doesn't clash at all) and his counter will eat up 2 count, possibly dropping his S1 Count gain down to 2. This does honestly seem like a fun way to play to play long form content. Carefully considering poise resource management and playing chicken with your hp to try and draw out as much damage as you can from him could be so much more fun than other straightforward, dull, tried-and-true methods. But tried and true those other methods are. As much fun as that style is, it wastes lots of time to actually get up to the level of damage he'd need to be dishing out in order to be above the opportunity cost of using someone else (Cinqclair or even Maid Ryoshu mainly) on that team. All that time building up to it could be better spent on dishing out more damage, but even if you just went for more damage than actually building poise, you'd be relying even more on aggro in order to lower your health at a similar rate since you either can't redirect attacks or need to win the clash to dish out the damage. While he can pull off a lot more damage in his low health, it's a very unconventional way to power up that most S and high A tiers don't have to bother with to pull off their max potential that 7 times out of 10, will be on the same level as or more powerful than the amount of damage Heathcliff will be dishing out at low hp. And one other potentially major issue with aggro tanks that specifically want to be hit: effects. The vast majority of styles of play want to clash win or at least avoid getting hit by the enemies' attacks. This is largely just to avoid damage in general, but another part is to stop or avoid the enemies' effects. Most basic effects might not matter or could even help Heathcliff during his buildup, such as bleed, rupture, burn, etc. to lower health more, and even stuff like paralyze and sinking technically helps his S1 to clash worse for less count consumption. But often times, bosses and even other adds can gain effects from successful hits on you (such as poise or charge), usually powering them up and either dragging the fight on longer or making their attacks a lot tougher for everyone to clash with conventional attacks, leading to overusing EGOs as well as losing time for gaining more poise. As well, the attacks could apply instant stagger or death types of negative effects as well, such as the seeds in Dongbaek's seeds. And finally, basically every enemy that has some kind of sp will gladly take some clash wins against him. I do have a newfound appreciation for him and his interesting style of play, and if you do pull off getting him to low health, high poise potentency and count (while somehow avoiding the pitfalls of everything mentioned before in the process of getting there) then yeah, he does do some really great damage, but I'd still place him in A tier, and I'll only move him up to be tied with BL Yi Sang, where he's for sure higher when Yi Sang is outside of BL team, but lower than him while Yi Sang is in BL team. In fact, I'll go over my thoughts comparison style on why he gets his placement.I won't cover everything above him, so I'll start with Mulicrack Faust and go down from there: Both excel in long form content, but Multicrack with 4 Charge potentency easily trumps the damage Pequod Heathcliff could pull off and is generally easier to get to. N Clair is just incredibly hard hitting without as much buildup as PH needs. Regret Faust is absolutely needed for the best Tremor team, has a lot of easy attack weight, and provides easy coin power down on S2. Captian Ishmael just has so much team synergy and damage in her kit that outweighs PH's damage potential. Molar Outis is usually the first or second highest damage dealer in Tremor teams. Funeral Yi Sang offers high, on-demand damage as well as a ton of support and extra damage with Butterflys, not to mention the ByGone Days and Echoes of the Manor synergy is incredible while it's still not "fixed." Philipclair is a fantastic unit with lots of damage, great attack weight on S2, and fairly easy to build and keep up his EGO form in long form content. While yes, long form content is the bane of Rabbit Heathcliff, his bullets do still last him a decent while, so it does have to be really long form content for PH to trump him. This tier list isn't solely about the latest RR though, so Rabbit still wins out by completely oupacing him in most other content. Yurodive Hong Lu himself is overall on the weaker side, but his Tremor Reverb application (preferably through his EGO, but S3 works after a while as well) is the most vital to the best Tremor team. Molar Ishmael provides so much easy sinking count that she provides a great supporting role to sinking teams, her Wingbeat on a sinking team with Butler Faust's support passive active gives a much better chance of being able to hit high amount of heads to burst down enemies, and her new ByGone Days EGO can apply Echoes of the Manor. Liu Ryoshu is the 2nd strongest Burn unit and just does incredible on Burn teams and she even works well on fueling Pointilliest Yi Sang's team with burn for his S2 and access to Sanguine Desire. Butler Outis is a great unit on sinking teams, and while Ishmael's ByGone Days does provide EotM as well, Outis's S3 doesn't cost as much to use, and any more sources of EotM on sinking is still much appreciated. Similar to Liu Rodion, Liu Ishmael is also incredible on burn teams, just falling only a bit short under Rodion on that team. Reindeer Ishmael is still a strong Charge unit that has easy to pull off strong S3 with solid clahing and damaging S1 and S2. Linton Gregor is a solid unit on sinking, but with Solemn Lament EGO is incredible against single targets. Maid Ryoshu has a lot better Poise count gain than PH and has easy access to attack weight on S2 and agaisnt adds, might pull off the double S3. Like most poise units on the best poise team, the great poise retaining they do makes long form content their playground as they just get stronger and stronger until they no longer have to even worry about managing their poise like a resource, unlike PH. Tax Collector Don isn't quite as vital as the top 3 Tremor IDs are, but her access to Time Moratorium, easy acess high clashing, and S2 burst makes her a worthwhile adition to the best Tremor team. I'm a bit iffy on 7 Faust, she's a solid unit with a lot of debuffs at her disposal and pretty much the best unit in Rupture teams, but with where Rupture is right now, I could see her being lower than PH until we get some more proper Rupture IDs to help the effect. Chef Ryoshu and Ting Tang Hong Lu as well are solid IDs with some good overall damage that turns great when hitting the S3 conditionals, but until those points, they are just solid, and don't have the ramp-up the PH has, so I could see them being lower. W Outis is only this low because she takes a while longer to build up her 4 charge potentency and doesn't pull off quite as much damage as Multicrack Faust, but still, with similar ramp-up time as PH needs, she can become quite the strong ID and offer a lot of extra support to charge teams. BL Yi Sang on BL team, similar to the others above, builds up and retains poise very easily, hitting his max damage potential a lot sooner than PH and generally keeping a better overall damage count than PH's rough start + quick bursts of S3 damage. Heck, when considering ramp-up time, Multicrack Heathcliff stands to pull some pretty good damage as well. Combine that with the great support role for charge teams he does as well, and I think there's a solid case for him to be above PH, possibly even BL YinSang.
Ok but me looking away for a min coming back after hearing the Hokma church music and seeing a giant fucking dog snout is crazy, can’t believe Esgoo’s dog is god
dunno tf is everyone dissing new Rodya, 9 does better job at being generalist than diechi, with only downside being low on time, but when that happens you already get the job done, she has one of the easiest conditionals for power boost and damage, while also having bonus like synergy with rupture. Hot take - if there wasn't any rupture at her kit at all, she would've been treated better that this. Insta sharded her and use her everywhere as a new r heath
@@hypemaddox well, if it stops you from using her at all - don't. In the end of the day, everyone plays as he wants, and the only reason I even wrote the first comment is because of bias towards new ids, which is the result of being spoiled by recent op ones. She is at least on the level on diechi, if not better, and with generalisation of chained battles (and hopeful adding new 9 ids) she would be just better
@@ryomintothe downside in question turns into a plus anyway if you want #1 sinner of your team to have double slot Or in chain battle case, she get swap out with another sinner anyway and they get + 1 clash power up to make the SP gain smoother if needed
im genuinely surprised blade lineage sinclair is that high he always seemed kinda buns beyond the skill 3 to me edit: nvm i got to the part where he explains lolllll
This stream literally could have been less than an hour long if Esgoo stopped getting distracted by chat's insanity but I guess that's the fun part. I just wish there was an edited down version with all the chat insanity cut out because I don't think anyone can call this the must watch for explanations for the tier list when literally 2/3s of the vod is just fluff.
Ok I have to say, I'd argue solemn lament yi sang is better than harpooner. His clashing power is just so obscene, and the skill 3 deals nuke skill levels of damage with basically no setup, so long as you are smart about reloading he is obscene And that isnt even considering what he does for a sinking team
i do agree with liu ishy at high A, apart from rodion and dawnclair she's still carrying burn on her shoulders, rodion doesn't exactly have a good burn E.G.O and even with rodion's conditional clash power, ardor blossom star still rolls a damn 41
Mr. Esgoo, I have an important question. Can you still get Multicrack Heathcliff? I was taking a break from the game when the event rolled around but I still know you can get Multicrack Faust from the dispense menu. But not for Heathcliff, is there any other way to obtain this man?
What's the "discard trick" I keep hearing about? It sounds like y'all are doing something to keep three insight on Dieci Rodion and Hong Lu? How does that work?
R Heathcliff is really falling off now because of the chain fights and other(Wild Hunt and Pequod) very strong IDs for new content. (Fell bullet still dont fixes his ammo issues)
Honestly... in RR at least, chain battle is an Rcliff buff. You let him do the thing, then just die and have another unit take his spot, which removes his downside of being a potato once out of ammo
He's pretty good I think, just overshadowed by WildCliff in Chain Battles. But you run him, and make him burst 1 or even 2 IDs down before letting him die. Quick Supression can prolly one shot any other IDs.
i don't have him so take this as the theory crafting that its meant to be but maybe he could find a spot in a team alongside pequod ish and a few poise ids now that fell bullet is a thing. poise ids overall have pretty decent ego resources to spam fell bullet(esp pride). i recon pequod ishs takedown or stagger conditonal should be easy to hit with fragile even on tankier enemies which in turn would buff heaths dmg and make him take down the next unit with fell bullet. plus theres an alright amount of bleed among the poise ids. i mean ik theres shi cliff and more importantly pequod cliff but like it could maybe be a fun alternative to just burst through adds so his lack of bullets wouldnt be a problem in long fights anymore. if you have the ids and ego it might be worth a shot to play around with it. and if you do pls lmk. (i could be completely off and this is a horrible idea since i never use any poise ids besides the pequods and in limbus fashion can't be bothered to read up on them too much)
@@kires421In RR4 I don't think you need do much for him Run him in the +speed slot, Quick Suppression a unit and just let him die shortly after. Though, even without ammo he still clashed extremely well.
@@boxtupos7718 very fair. his numbers seem nice and his s3 looks monstrous. was just thinking of ways he might have been affected by recent additions. feels like a shame that the heathcliff ego that gives ammo is better on a heathcliff thatd doesnt need it xd
People are overrating both Funeral Sang and WildCliff because latest event features a special status that made both of them pop the hell off compared to how they actually work out normally without you carefully setting them up.
Seeing as Chain Battles are going to be the norm, WildCliff is going to continue being insane Not to mention even without that, he is still pretty powerful; Even outside of Sinking. DingSang is also really good in Sinking, one of the reason why Dieci Rodya+Rimeshank is no longer really needed in Sinking teams. But outside of Sinking he's alright, not to mention RingSang is there; Dude can just be slotted anywhere.
Gunsang S3 hits some absurd numbers on S3 with zero prep or sinking beforehand. His S1 also clashes surprisingly well, he is very positive on sinking count and butterflies is a goated status. He's not top 10 or anything due to having significant drawbacks with reloading and stuff but he's undoubtedly S tier. Erlking is cracked for sure and he isn't getting glazed that much in my opinion, his damage ceiling is unreal
@@zeph769 I think it's because people think WildCliff NEEDS 10 Coffin, so they think he's slow to ramp up But realistically he only needs about 4-6 to start doing absurd damage.
The Dieci Rodion cope is insane. Her roles are so average, hell, below average, especially when she doesn’t have insight +3. Oh don’t get me started on how she gains insight. Due to her skill one not discarding, it is unbelievably infuriating to gain insight +3 because often her skill 3 will be on the bottom row, preventing you from discarding it, unlike Dieci Hong Lu, my beloved, who can easily gain insight +3. However, even when she has insight +3, her rolls still SUCK. You need so much sinking in order to reach her skill 2 and 3’s conditionals. “Oh but doesn’t rimeshank fix these issues or whatever?” No it DOESNT. Rimeshank is a top five ego yes, but you need high sp in order to consistently take advantage of it. A floor of 15 for an ego is really REALLY bad, and makes winning clashes with it inconsistent at the best of times. “So just gain sp before you use it,” what is the main way to gain sp I might ask? By winning clashes, which as I stated earlier, she isn’t that good at winning clashes. Now am I saying that Dieci Rodion is a bad ID? Of course not. She’s still arguably the best tank in the time. She has very high damage when her conditionals are met. Even when they aren’t met, her skill 2 and 3 still do a LOT of damage, but saying she’s top five is crazy. I would say she’s around the middle of S tier, but nowhere near Dieci Hong Lu, who is way more consistent, has just as high damage, and doesn’t eat sinking count like crazy, which I forgot to mention. Overall uhhh, Esgoo stinky and is officially banned from the Wildhunt.
Damn, bro really values rosespanner rodya THAT high. 10 roll on S1, 17 on S2 and 17 on S3, no support, isn't that good at damage department and doesn't really apply that much count either Meanwhile Tcorp has much better clashing (without speedUp 13, 16 and 20), bind, good count application and moratorium. Also, great synnergy with clam ego AND YOU RANKED RYOSHU HIGHER. She exist as substitute for outis (the only two IDs for lust) and as passive provider (also, passive makes faust broken af). Rodya, faust and heathcliff are already more than enough for tremor count (i mean, heath is for egoless. You can do fine without him), when the hell do you even need THAT much count? It's overkill at the price of damage and general utility. Tremor isn't sinking, or rapture, you can't spend THAT MUCH count in one turn, even in 2 or 3, especially because hong lu takes time to setup You really didn't test tremor well and i'm talking about general content, not mirror dungeon UPD: i forgot about boatwork ishmael, who can deal more damage than ryoshu, have good tremor count application AND fragile on S3. And also sinking+blind obsession. AND ryoshu also doesn't have good support ego, or any tremor ego
The s3 with max roll of 15 that FOREVER SCALES with the boss hp bloat in this game's lifespan, dealing infinitesimally more damage than pretty much even W ryoshu s3 if the boss health is large enough? Yeah no she's still good. Her s3 can have 0 base and coin power and it will still have the potential to deal the most damage in this game She has been used in EVERY SINGLE RR SPEEDRUNS, in every fight where even Wryoshu isn't fast enough, or the enemy has 2x lust weak. Even Ting Tang Hong Lu is still used, because his skill 2 deals EVEN MORE damage than Ring Sang's s2. Thinking chef ryoshu is "overrated" is one hell of a take.
aside from what the other person already said healing 20+ per takedown (with chef gregor on the bench) makes her pretty flexible to slot in anywhere imo
@@longnguchicken4580 lmao she doesn't really scale as good as you say. check the skill 3 again it's only (max 20). it's already non-signifact since bosses can reach 3000 hp in this game
@@kires421 also pretty sure her healing is made obsolete by the fact that spider ryoshu basically has way better healing that doesnt even rely on killing an enemy (on top of also healing sp)
@@heartbae87 I totally get why you assume her skill is like that, but no. “Boost damage by 5% of target's missing HP (Max 20)” is completely misleading and it’s not what the skill does at all. Instead, to calculate the bonus damage, it first checks how many times the enemy is missing chunks of 20 HP. 1 bonus damage is gained per chunk of 20 missing HP, but it’s capped to 20 total bonus damage. That bonus damage then benefits from enemy physical resistances, sin resistances, and sinner off lvl/enemy def lvl calculations. Every coin gets that bonus damage. It deals WAY more damage than you think it does.
![The Strongest IDs [Limbus Company]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qjBeb1jy4E4/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Strongest IDs [Limbus Company]](/img/tr.png)
![Blade Lineage Meursault: Changing the Game [Limbus Company]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3qc5tKTbHcg/mqdefault.jpg)
![[Limbus Company] Status Archetypes Current State | Season 4 Report](/img/n.gif)
Final tier list at 3:04:15, pause the video here nothing happens after that erlking is and always will be number one
based
I'm only adding timestamps for IDs that were moved, if you have a gripe or I missed something then let me know in the reply comments
0:00 - Stream starts
3:46 - Dog (Rogan) ranking and excess rambling begins
10:30 - Obligatory crab song
12:36 - Reordering begins / Ring Yi Sang
16:50 - Regret Faust (2:13:56)
18:15 - Warp Don (1:57:16 rip )
20:51 - NClair is a girlboss
21:58 - Tingtang Hong Lu (57:52)
21:58 - Warp Yi Sang
21:58 - Reindeer Ishmael
23:22 - Liu Ishmael
23:35 - Chef Ryoshu
25:57 - Butler Outis
27:38 - Molar Outis
28:42 - Seven Faust
28:52 - Butler Ryoshu
33:00 - Der Shootis
34:10 - Edgar Gregor
38:16 - Oufi Heathcliff (1:02:01)
43:30 - Spicebush Yi Sang
46:12 - Zwei Gregor
49:32 - Ring Outis
50:10 - Rosespanner Rodion
51:00 - Middle Don
53:14 - Rhino Meursault
54:00 - BL Faust
56:42 - BL Don
1:02:55 - This comment aged well
1:07:27 - "Potential" Man
1:09:20 - Maid Ishmael (1:13:50)
1:10:49 - Molar Yi Sang
1:11:10 - LCCB Ishmael
1:13:11 - Dieci Yi Sang
1:13:22 - KK Ryoshu
1:15:24 - G Corp Outis (Welvander jumpscare)
1:16:28 - Middle Meursault
1:18:55 - LCB Outis
1:22:04 - LCB Ishmael
1:24:43 - Yurodivy Ryoshu
1:26:58 - Cinq Don
1:27:20 - Yurodivy Hong Lu
1:31:15 - T Corp Rodion
1:34:50 - T Corp Don
1:38:17 - Dieci Meursault
1:43:11 - Warp Outis
1:44:47 - BL Yi Sang
1:47:27 - Multicrack Heathcliff
1:50:34 - Multicrack Faust (RIP, you were top 10 for only 15 minutes)
1:53:26 - Wild Hunt Heathcliff (*chat glazing intensifies*)
2:02:49 - Dieci Rodion is dethroned but not really
2:05:08 - Red Eyes Ryoshu
2:11:10 - Butterfly Yi Sang
2:26:10 - Patron Librarian Tier List
2:36:18 - Abnormalities Smash or Pass
2:48:42 - Bygone Days Ishmael Review
2:51:07 - Amazon Delivery Rodion Review
Best Tremor Team - (42:06)
LCCB Ishmael, Molar Outis, Regret Faust, Rosespanner Rodion, T Corp Don, Yurodivy Hong Lu
"Where is Deyvat Rodion" Count: *4*
7:30, 13:43, 18:01, 44:31
"Happy Birthday ESGOO" Count: *8*
7:47, 8:17, 8:59, 9:15, 9:24, 10:36, 10:53, 1:21:35
Lob Corp Abnormalities:
The Burrowing Heaven - 35:44
Price Of Silence - 59:53
Schadenfreude - 1:03:21
[CENSORED] - 1:20:02
Other Goobers:
Gebura - 39:03
Jun - 40:56
Gregor - 54:14
Hod - 1:05:55
Cinq Don - 1:53:47
Thank you for your hard work
Add a time stamp for him roasting guardianZET
2:40:46
The Dieci Rodion slander of people. Top 3 in my heart. Not min maxed to be good at one thing, but above average everything. I love her
Did anyone ever mention how ESGOO has super low sound volume? He's always so quiet.
The volume is fine for me. Regardless, low volume =/= low quality.
hes always been fine for me, but everytime he goes "sorry the games a bit quiet" and then turns it up, its still never loud enough compared to him.
This. And not just his streams, some of his videos too.
W Corp Meursault
W Corp. L2 Cleanup Agent Meursault
While I agree with most of what you say, I thinkyou overvalue geeralists. If you use a ID you will in most cases build a team for that purpose, using ID's that synergize with each other
Being a rupture bro is suffering
no 👎
We will have our day, trust
The hustle of a rupture bro is all about running charge-rupture for MDs and doing Taliclair bullshit for regular bosses.
Im sorry, I’m too sevenpilled, been too busy with my archetypal associationmaxxing for such hustles
@@ThroughArbitersandClaws we really need more 7 association ruptures. It's insane that W sang is better in a 7association rupture team than 7 yi sang. Ryoshu also doesn't do anything for rupture lol
Didn't reach stream in time. WildHunt Heathcliff does NOT need a sinking team, I don't know what kind of pipe you were smoking. It's nice, but it's not needed.....*like you know, the other characters in the god tier*. And the fact that lament is spammable thanks to counter means his damage has higher peaks than what you give him credit for, plus with it being more on demand. I've seen him rolling two heads with that thing with 4-5 coffins and dealing more damage than most ID nuke skills on enemies with neutral resistance or even sin/type resistance against it. Wildhunt with max coffins is the best ID in the game but since he needs time to get there, I definitely think him being in the top 5 is more justified.
If I ever said “need” I didn’t mean that, words get tricky when there’s 2 thousand people talking to you, what I wanted to say was he wants a Sinking Team and enemies to kill, which is pretty much objectively true. He definitely doesn’t need a Sinking team, he cares much more about having bodies he can put in coffins
@@therealESGOO That's like saying Ring Yi Sang wants a team with a bunch of different status effect types (preferably Burn, Tremor, Bleed) to make procing his rerolls easier, which is also objectively true. He wants it, but clearly doesn't need it, which only makes a case for both of their values in terms of being generalists. You can even say that Bamboo Hatted Meursalt wants a Blade Lineage team, and that's also objectively correct, yet he's so strong by himself that he can be run by himself in a random team and he'd still do great. Wildhunt Heath only needs 4-5 coffins before he starts to steamroll everything (which he can reliably get thanks to counter) so I really don't see how hyperfocusing on the fact that he wants a sinking team matters that much when he can be run in any team and he'd still do god's work. Your point about him needing kills is true, which is why I'm saying that he should be in top 5 and not top 1 because he still needs time to get to his full strength (even if gaining coffins is as reliable as it is if you know how to cycle Dullahan).
@yoriavila4308 Tbf if he really thought the sinking conditionals were that important, wild hunt would end up lower than 6th place
Also he can ignore stagger on command, it's a "small" thing but it can be really useful
@@solairefan5420 A bit of an understatment. Thanks to that, he is one of the best units to solo MD.
Agreed with WH Heath 'in encounters with enemies to kill' being an entirely different beast, but I think there are (and will be) more scenarios than one would expect where he can suddenly spike in scaling. Portrait of a Certain Day in RR4 comes to mind-- it's not exactly that kind of encounter, but come turn 4 you can drop a S3-1 on the master's portrait and instantly land yourself with 6 Coffin.
I think it'll be interesting to see what kinds of bosses pop up in the future where you can sneak yourself a ton of Coffin at once. Definitely not as fast as, say, the Casetti fight (or even King in Binds)-- but much faster than just trying to climb your way up 2 Coffin at a time.
This stream existed
I actually think Wildhunt Heathcliff is a top 5 ID
He doesn't need to get to 10 Coffin to be good; 4-6 and he is already really really insane. So even in fights where there's nothing to kill, he still ramps up fast enough to be great; And in fights with bodies to kill, he's prolly top 2 behind RingSang.
My top 5 will prolly go
RingSang
WRyo
BlSault
DieciLu
WildCliff (Top 2 if it's multiwave fights).
Why WRyo second place, tho? She’s kinda super mid (especially comparing to wild hunt)
@@Dedovik-smertonosshe has some absolutely insane skill 3 damage
@@Dedovik-smertonos W Ryo still has one of, if not the most damaging S3; With really really easy conditionals.
Her S2 also does alot of damage.
I'll be honest, magic bullet is such a mistreated placement on this tier list. It's not a bad practice to value generalists that act well outside of their archetype or have self-filling conditionals. But when you both attach value to generalists AND punish specialists for being specialists, you are heavily biasing just unga boonga units and participating in power creep culture.
Magic bullet has great clashing, she is tailor made for burn, why are you trying to rip her out of her team comp? "I'd rather use W Sang than Magic bullet" I am sorry, where, exactly? In Burn? Surely not. In unga boonga team? Why would you use W Sang in a team like that in the first place? There is no competition between these 2 IDs because if you use W Sang as a generalist, you loose on better IDs like Ring, Outis doesn't even appear in the competition. She is unmatched in Burn and has no replacement and no competition there. She can't hold a candle to Ring since he is a one man army but she can't compete with Molar? Seriously? Why, because you can put Molar in a mashed comp where there is almost certainly a better replacement for her because she is also a specialist? I can understand the placements of Sink IDs because they all contribute to the damage output kinda similarly. Outis IS the Burn team damage. On that alone she should be in S tier. She IS the archetype. Molar makes Sinking stay afloat. But give Sinking a little more count and she is gone. Outis will likely never leave.
And I am not even talking about talisman staying in A because "he makes the archetype sing" and Outis doesn't get S because she doesn't do good outside of archetype 🤔.
I really don't like this approach. Conditional strength is a more interesting and engaging type of strength. In-archetype strength is more unique than "ha-ha 30 base power bonk". If a character can be strong outside of his team, its good and it should be accounted. If a character is strong in her comp, it shouldn't be punished for being strongest in it. And Outis is the queen of burn. Not Liu Rodion. Unless its a generalist tier list and I missed something.
To be fair, Magic Bullet isn't even a specialist, you can just throw her in a random team with Dawnclair and they are basically enough by themselves to be a full burn team while the 4 other IDs can just do whatever they want. Hell, you can probably just put Ring Yi Sang with her with no other burn support in there and his random burn count is probably enough to keep her going and letting her put enough burn to be full power
esgoo is stuck between being completely unable to catch a break and also causing his own downfall by sounding vaguely Bostonian. what an unfortunate character
Fun fact. Magic bullet Outis is the only 2 sin affinity ID
No? Pequod heath has 2 envy. Outis has pride gaurd, so she's actually the only 3 sin ID.
I surmise they meant only id with 2 sins total, since Pequod Heath has a wrath counter
@@thatonecringeposter you're right, I'm afflicted with the project moon fan curse
@SuperDawsome pequod heathcliff has 3 sins. Envy on skill 3 and 2, pride on skill 1, and wrath on counter.
Bl Mersault has pride on skill 1 and 2, wrath on skill 3 and envy on counter.
Bullet Outis has pride on skil 2, 3 and guard and wrath on skill 1.
As a RoseSault enjoyer, i feel physically unwell by the Rosesault slander in this stream when your upset at RoseGreg. The RoseSault community shall remember this /silly
What's the proper channel to report a bug to PMoon? Trying to use the md replace skill function on the new Rodion ID instantly causes the game to crash on Android. I've done it multiple times, so it's consistent as well. Might be for all replace skills, though I haven't tested it yet.
300 lunacy is ours
I think there's a support email or something. Don't remember what the email address was rn.
Our champion… report so we get free lunacy pls
Found it. In the settings, it's Misc. > Customer Service > General > and tapping on the email instantly starts a bug report email to them.
Sent it in, so hopefully, it gets fixed soonish. I really want to use her S3 some more (and some lunacy would be nice too).
Happened to me too with lament sang and trying to do the same thing
Indeed a stream to be streamed.
How does it feel to be “not good, requires a Sinking Team” by Esgoo Wild Hunt
Wtf ESGOO is only 21? Damn, bro has a whole life ahead of him.
Tier list is fine, you're a funny cube man, make more videos.
I would like to note that wh heathcliff is insane not in a sinking team but rather in a lust whistle (nfaust passive) spam team. In a whistle spam team wh guarantees lust with counter and can immediately mount on t1 due to whistle. Ideally you put him on position 1 so he can gain coffin faster from s3 + counter when mounted. The sinking part of wh doesn't really matter much since wh's s4 damage comes from coffin mainly.
Generally a pretty good list though I kinda disagree with all the factors being wishy washy in application. "No ID has ego except Meursault always has regret but also this ishmael ID will have this EGO in this specific circumstance so it goes up a rank" or "This ID sucks but with [extremely specific team IE needs BL Meursault] its great" doesnt really apply to their individual strength does it? No wonder chat was so argumentative but ultimately its all for fun.
Yeah.
He should've been fair and not count ego for any of the IDs if he was going to use that rule for some of them.
Mister cube-man, I have 2 things I want to ask, one is more doable than the other one...
First, could you please, PLEASE do the "uptie/threadspin priority" list again?
No matter if it's on video or stream format... It's been a while and you know... The IDs/EGOs are coming but until KJH changes the mirror, resources are on an all-time-low, specially for newer players...
That was that, and now a bigger ask...
After ruminating on the tier list and making off stream final adjustments, could you, pretty please, do a video on the list?
I know explanations are more important than placements, but not everyone has the time to watch a 3 hour long stream... And having no explanation at all (just posting the tier list on the community tab) is the extreme opposite... A TL;DW video with the broad strokes of the changes and additions is something that, while I recognize is a big ask, I think is still relatively reasonable
And that's all I wanted to say
Thanks for everything
I don't understand why outis is lower than Liu ish and rodya.
Yes, she have low lows, but with multiwave content, her skill 3 even in non-burn team is amazing and she overall clash pretty well.
Also, she is singlehandedly save the burn archetypes, and because now burn have 3 solid ID other than outis that are "free" (can always get in the shop), it's not like that her team is somewhat disfunctional, and her celieing can be only higher with time.
This whole idea of "good but only in burn team" is a bad take as a whole. You can give advantage to IDs that can perform well in and out of archetypes but you shouldn't punish specialists. Not every ID needs to be just Unga Bunga by themselves. The notion breeds powercreep and makes creating more nuanced characters less likely. Esgoo L
No, genuinely, why is Pequod Heathcliff in S tier? I thought I was missing something, so I went and checked on his kit, and even played him in a few different gamemodes, and unless you hard commit to an envy team, he is unbearably middling. His clashing is shit for a 000, with his S1 and S2 hard capped at 11 and 16, and only his S3 getting any clash or coin power, and it's entirely envy res reliant. While the bleed count from S2 could be incredibly good, he has no lust other than his HE EGO, so he'd struggle on current bleed teams, and they wouldn't even support his Envy res well either. And with his poise being reliant on his terrible S1 for count and needing a ton of bleed to get decent amounts of poise porency from S2 and S3 having only the slightest but of poise synergy, he's a pretty terrible poise unit outside of MD as well.
And absolutely not with the "but 99% damage" argument, he'll either be long dead from getting absolutely dogged on in his staggered state since his is so high up that it's practically a lose turn option when he uses his counter move, or the enemy will be long dead before he gets beat enough to get a decent amount of damage bonus in the first place.
He is just so far from being a good generalist that it makes no sense for him to be in S.
It's kind of the same with Dieci Hong Lu and the answer - ESGOO really likes these two IDs, as he said himself when going over their placements.
It's like you said you were missing something. like the part about him being an aggro tank which is just a really good archetype. plus the part where he only has one stagger treshhold at 80%. and his passive and counter being able to stack def lvl ups(his counter is conditional but you basically get the passive for free in every fight). also the offense lvl up of the passive scales up pretty nicely with his missing hp %dmg increase. play him on a poise team, envy team, bleed team or just throw him in to take aggro he does his job great. his clashing is also just not shit? he also just doesn't struggle on current bleed teams. why mention him not having lust? if you're playing a team to solely min max the resonance on sanguine or contempt just don't bring him(even though he literally has all th e ego resources both of those need outside of lust so he works perfectly fine) or just run hex nails instead. he got a really nice ego recently as well in fell bullet that gives him basically free !POISE! and applies bleed. 4 of his egos also have passives that synergize really well (binds, la sunyata, holiday and fell bullet) so throw him on any team and trigger one of those. why complain about his rating when you left out the best parts about his kit? i understand maybe arguing about him not being so high in s... personally think he and pequod ish are pretty similar in strength but 4 placements up or down in the highest tier really doesnt matter all that much. you arguing him not belonging in s tier at all just makes me wonder what kind of team or skill order you were using when testing him.
@kires421 Funniest thing I've read all day: "aggro tank which is just a good archetype." Aggro tanks are a joke. Aggro doesn't work in unfocused fights, and in focused fights, aggro RNG is pretty damn unreliable. And as ESGOO himself had put multiple times, usually while trash-talking Sloshmael: "Why not just bring more damage?"
My point with the stagger threshold is that he literally has to lose a turn in order to get low enough to start stacking some decent damage, technically 2 if he doesn't draw enough aggro and has to manually use his counter to redirect enough damage to get the stagger (and again, aggro is still very RNG reliant).
As I mentioned before, outside of MD, his poise gain just isn't very good on poise teams, and while fine, he doesn't have to have lust to fit in on bleed team, the envy res that he desperately wants to make his one hard-hitting attack actually hit hard is just not abundant enough on teams that can make good use of his bleed-based poise gain.
I mentioned his clashing because ESGOO weirdly said his clashing was good even though, compared to most other good 6*s, the only skill of his that actually gains any more clashing and coins is his S3, which is 1. Is far less abundant than his S1 and S2, so you don't get it as often 2. relies entirely on Envy Res, which means you have to actively drop what you're doing and make his teammates play their envy skills that turn or else he doesn't get that much big damage, which could be a huge opportunity cost depending on what other skills or EGO you might want to play that turn.
And look at almost any other ID in S tier (and a ton in A tier as well) and see how so many at have conditionals on their S2s and/or S1s that at least them match the average Canto 5 onward's mid-level attack coin power. His S1 is permanently stuck at 11 (which fine, he has his counter [that he doesn't use when he staggers], so whatever for that), and his S2 at 16.
Bringing up Fell Bullet is also just absolutely laughable. Have you even looked at that EGO? You only gain highest res + 1 poise, +2 if absolute res, so if you get a perfect 6 pride absolute res, you get a whopping 9 poise potentency, and guess what? It's a 2 coin skill that only gives you +1 poise count, meaning it's possibly negative poise balance. And the bleed? 5 potency.
Beyond Ya Sunyata's passive, he doesn't have that much specific synergy that you couldn't just get with most other Heathcliff units. Rabbit and Multicrack benefit as much from Holiday's passive and relying on it to bleed wouldn't even work because you'd need a ton of gluttony to get enough bleed for poise gain. And any of them would make pretty good use of Binds, and fine, again in the very specific envy team setup, he gets more value out of Binds passive, but again S tier is meant for generalists that actually do worthwhile stuff on any team they are in, or for IDs that make the specific teams they are in absolutely bonkers to where it's more than worth building around them. Those non-generalist IDs that make up the majority of S tier and near the top of A tier are ones that absolutely make or break the very strong teams teams that they reside in, and while an Envy team would break if it lacked Pequod Heathcliff, envy teams just aren't all that powerful yet, fun, but not game-changing. If envy team gets enough synergy and power to truly contend with the big status teams in the future, then maybe I'd consider him to be S tier. But right now I'd say he's, at best, below Multicrack Heathcliff and above W Yi Sang.
Read Fell Bullet's passive. He is a poise id with a pride s1, which guarantees his spot in the bl team with cap ish. His middling poise potency gain is fixed by an ego that is available as early as turn 2. Your claim about his damage being low is absolutely ridiculous. An id with 2-3-4 coins that can now crit consistently and dish out even more damage the lower hp he has is bad? While not on the level of recent id, if you use him correctly, his damage should always be higher than 4/6 of the team you run him in.
You also underestimate how high ~230 hp is. Unless you let ricardo use all his skills on him or sth, he will never die on the turn where he gets staggered and after. Also, this might surprise you. This is a team-building game where you can redirect the attacks. Unless you are a buffoon, he will never die with that kind of hp. And guess what? More damage the lower the hp. Losing one turn is nothing compared to the extra damage you gain the following turns which makes the loss of one turn laughable. Plus, he still isn't fully useless while he is staggered because yknow, he can still function as a TANK. Tank, aggro, high hp, deals higher damage the lower hp he has is an absolute bonker combination. His only downside is that he does not function well in short-form content, which is similar to many ids released recently. Also, all that talk about not being useful outside of md and you fail to ever mention rr.
The team you run him in, or atleast the team you should, has plenty of envy skills for him to reasonably achieve 4-res: Yi sang's skill 3, Don's 2 skill 2s, Ish's 3 skill 1, Meursalt's counter, not even mentioning heath's s3 already counts towards the res. Now I'm just wondering if this is just incompetence in team-building or in game-plan or both on your part.
@HawaiiPart Alright, I think I get the game plan that you need to reasonably make use of Heathcliff on Poise teams in long form challenge content, particularly RR. I still have issues with it, but first, let's lay the game plan out here:
The team is BL Meursault, BL Don, BL Yi Sang (could try Pequod Yi Sang for easier Envy access than an S3, but would miss out on how strong BL is in this team), BL Faust, Captain Ishmael (she's honestly not that great of poise unit specifically, but her pride res synergy combined with how strong her S2 and S3 are even without poise make up for it), and the star of the show, Pequod Heathcliff.
Now, let's get into the main issue with his poise: In long form content, it's not a lack Poise potentency that holds him back, especially if you decide to use his Fell Bullet and it's passive, far from it. The real issue is his poise count gain. His only sources of count gain are +4 from his S1, +1 from Fell Bullet, and +2 if Don's S3 applies the count gain to him. Gaining poise potentency is detrimental to him early on as he wants to farm up as much count (and mind his sp) as he can so that when he does actually get the opportunity to Envy res into S3, he can actually crit more than halfway through the skill before crapping out on count. The fact that his S1 is generally terrible at clashing ends up actually playing a part in his kit as he'll actually want to lose the clash (it's like Sloshmael 2.0 funnily enough) so that he can get the count gain without potentially criting, while also taking more damage to fuel up his passive. Because, if he ever uses his S2 or S3 when he's criting consistently, that's 3-4 count he's eating up with no count gains minus potentially Don S3. Hell, during that period, even his S1 (if it clash wins or doesn't clash at all) and his counter will eat up 2 count, possibly dropping his S1 Count gain down to 2.
This does honestly seem like a fun way to play to play long form content. Carefully considering poise resource management and playing chicken with your hp to try and draw out as much damage as you can from him could be so much more fun than other straightforward, dull, tried-and-true methods. But tried and true those other methods are. As much fun as that style is, it wastes lots of time to actually get up to the level of damage he'd need to be dishing out in order to be above the opportunity cost of using someone else (Cinqclair or even Maid Ryoshu mainly) on that team. All that time building up to it could be better spent on dishing out more damage, but even if you just went for more damage than actually building poise, you'd be relying even more on aggro in order to lower your health at a similar rate since you either can't redirect attacks or need to win the clash to dish out the damage. While he can pull off a lot more damage in his low health, it's a very unconventional way to power up that most S and high A tiers don't have to bother with to pull off their max potential that 7 times out of 10, will be on the same level as or more powerful than the amount of damage Heathcliff will be dishing out at low hp.
And one other potentially major issue with aggro tanks that specifically want to be hit: effects. The vast majority of styles of play want to clash win or at least avoid getting hit by the enemies' attacks. This is largely just to avoid damage in general, but another part is to stop or avoid the enemies' effects. Most basic effects might not matter or could even help Heathcliff during his buildup, such as bleed, rupture, burn, etc. to lower health more, and even stuff like paralyze and sinking technically helps his S1 to clash worse for less count consumption. But often times, bosses and even other adds can gain effects from successful hits on you (such as poise or charge), usually powering them up and either dragging the fight on longer or making their attacks a lot tougher for everyone to clash with conventional attacks, leading to overusing EGOs as well as losing time for gaining more poise. As well, the attacks could apply instant stagger or death types of negative effects as well, such as the seeds in Dongbaek's seeds. And finally, basically every enemy that has some kind of sp will gladly take some clash wins against him.
I do have a newfound appreciation for him and his interesting style of play, and if you do pull off getting him to low health, high poise potentency and count (while somehow avoiding the pitfalls of everything mentioned before in the process of getting there) then yeah, he does do some really great damage, but I'd still place him in A tier, and I'll only move him up to be tied with BL Yi Sang, where he's for sure higher when Yi Sang is outside of BL team, but lower than him while Yi Sang is in BL team.
In fact, I'll go over my thoughts comparison style on why he gets his placement.I won't cover everything above him, so I'll start with Mulicrack Faust and go down from there:
Both excel in long form content, but Multicrack with 4 Charge potentency easily trumps the damage Pequod Heathcliff could pull off and is generally easier to get to. N Clair is just incredibly hard hitting without as much buildup as PH needs. Regret Faust is absolutely needed for the best Tremor team, has a lot of easy attack weight, and provides easy coin power down on S2. Captian Ishmael just has so much team synergy and damage in her kit that outweighs PH's damage potential. Molar Outis is usually the first or second highest damage dealer in Tremor teams. Funeral Yi Sang offers high, on-demand damage as well as a ton of support and extra damage with Butterflys, not to mention the ByGone Days and Echoes of the Manor synergy is incredible while it's still not "fixed." Philipclair is a fantastic unit with lots of damage, great attack weight on S2, and fairly easy to build and keep up his EGO form in long form content. While yes, long form content is the bane of Rabbit Heathcliff, his bullets do still last him a decent while, so it does have to be really long form content for PH to trump him. This tier list isn't solely about the latest RR though, so Rabbit still wins out by completely oupacing him in most other content. Yurodive Hong Lu himself is overall on the weaker side, but his Tremor Reverb application (preferably through his EGO, but S3 works after a while as well) is the most vital to the best Tremor team. Molar Ishmael provides so much easy sinking count that she provides a great supporting role to sinking teams, her Wingbeat on a sinking team with Butler Faust's support passive active gives a much better chance of being able to hit high amount of heads to burst down enemies, and her new ByGone Days EGO can apply Echoes of the Manor. Liu Ryoshu is the 2nd strongest Burn unit and just does incredible on Burn teams and she even works well on fueling Pointilliest Yi Sang's team with burn for his S2 and access to Sanguine Desire. Butler Outis is a great unit on sinking teams, and while Ishmael's ByGone Days does provide EotM as well, Outis's S3 doesn't cost as much to use, and any more sources of EotM on sinking is still much appreciated. Similar to Liu Rodion, Liu Ishmael is also incredible on burn teams, just falling only a bit short under Rodion on that team. Reindeer Ishmael is still a strong Charge unit that has easy to pull off strong S3 with solid clahing and damaging S1 and S2. Linton Gregor is a solid unit on sinking, but with Solemn Lament EGO is incredible against single targets. Maid Ryoshu has a lot better Poise count gain than PH and has easy access to attack weight on S2 and agaisnt adds, might pull off the double S3. Like most poise units on the best poise team, the great poise retaining they do makes long form content their playground as they just get stronger and stronger until they no longer have to even worry about managing their poise like a resource, unlike PH. Tax Collector Don isn't quite as vital as the top 3 Tremor IDs are, but her access to Time Moratorium, easy acess high clashing, and S2 burst makes her a worthwhile adition to the best Tremor team. I'm a bit iffy on 7 Faust, she's a solid unit with a lot of debuffs at her disposal and pretty much the best unit in Rupture teams, but with where Rupture is right now, I could see her being lower than PH until we get some more proper Rupture IDs to help the effect. Chef Ryoshu and Ting Tang Hong Lu as well are solid IDs with some good overall damage that turns great when hitting the S3 conditionals, but until those points, they are just solid, and don't have the ramp-up the PH has, so I could see them being lower. W Outis is only this low because she takes a while longer to build up her 4 charge potentency and doesn't pull off quite as much damage as Multicrack Faust, but still, with similar ramp-up time as PH needs, she can become quite the strong ID and offer a lot of extra support to charge teams. BL Yi Sang on BL team, similar to the others above, builds up and retains poise very easily, hitting his max damage potential a lot sooner than PH and generally keeping a better overall damage count than PH's rough start + quick bursts of S3 damage. Heck, when considering ramp-up time, Multicrack Heathcliff stands to pull some pretty good damage as well. Combine that with the great support role for charge teams he does as well, and I think there's a solid case for him to be above PH, possibly even BL YinSang.
My daily tierlist slop thank you esgoo
Ok but me looking away for a min coming back after hearing the Hokma church music and seeing a giant fucking dog snout is crazy, can’t believe Esgoo’s dog is god
dunno tf is everyone dissing new Rodya, 9 does better job at being generalist than diechi, with only downside being low on time, but when that happens you already get the job done, she has one of the easiest conditionals for power boost and damage, while also having bonus like synergy with rupture. Hot take - if there wasn't any rupture at her kit at all, she would've been treated better that this. Insta sharded her and use her everywhere as a new r heath
Dieci doesn't kill themselves or leave the team to go deliver someones lunch
@@hypemaddox well, that's basically the only downside which I already listed, you didn't bring anything new
@@ryominto that is a pretty huge downside to consider
@@hypemaddox well, if it stops you from using her at all - don't. In the end of the day, everyone plays as he wants, and the only reason I even wrote the first comment is because of bias towards new ids, which is the result of being spoiled by recent op ones. She is at least on the level on diechi, if not better, and with generalisation of chained battles (and hopeful adding new 9 ids) she would be just better
@@ryomintothe downside in question turns into a plus anyway if you want #1 sinner of your team to have double slot
Or in chain battle case, she get swap out with another sinner anyway and they get + 1 clash power up to make the SP gain smoother if needed
Oh hey an ego you can use in the worst team railway for team healing instead of [REDACTED].
im genuinely surprised blade lineage sinclair is that high he always seemed kinda buns beyond the skill 3 to me
edit: nvm i got to the part where he explains lolllll
Is the EGO tier list and, more importantly, the uptie 4 tier list gonna be updated too soon?
certainly a stream that happened
I pulled Sloshmael while watching this vod
Dieci Meur is like, a discard nuke which is nice but it clashes with the other two IDs being more consistent damage dealers.
This stream literally could have been less than an hour long if Esgoo stopped getting distracted by chat's insanity but I guess that's the fun part. I just wish there was an edited down version with all the chat insanity cut out because I don't think anyone can call this the must watch for explanations for the tier list when literally 2/3s of the vod is just fluff.
>placing tingtang over nelly shu
garbage stream
my goat is washed
can't believe he fell off
Ok I have to say, I'd argue solemn lament yi sang is better than harpooner.
His clashing power is just so obscene, and the skill 3 deals nuke skill levels of damage with basically no setup, so long as you are smart about reloading he is obscene
And that isnt even considering what he does for a sinking team
i do agree with liu ishy at high A, apart from rodion and dawnclair she's still carrying burn on her shoulders, rodion doesn't exactly have a good burn E.G.O and even with rodion's conditional clash power, ardor blossom star still rolls a damn 41
Mr. Esgoo, I have an important question. Can you still get Multicrack Heathcliff? I was taking a break from the game when the event rolled around but I still know you can get Multicrack Faust from the dispense menu. But not for Heathcliff, is there any other way to obtain this man?
What's the "discard trick" I keep hearing about? It sounds like y'all are doing something to keep three insight on Dieci Rodion and Hong Lu? How does that work?
Just place a defensive skill and leave it there discard specifically cannot discard defensive and ego skills
Hi I’m legit first day playing what’s the updated charge team?
This truly was our Esgoo
I don't have a good argument but Talisman Sinclair deserves F.
R Heathcliff is really falling off now because of the chain fights and other(Wild Hunt and Pequod) very strong IDs for new content. (Fell bullet still dont fixes his ammo issues)
Honestly... in RR at least, chain battle is an Rcliff buff. You let him do the thing, then just die and have another unit take his spot, which removes his downside of being a potato once out of ammo
He's pretty good I think, just overshadowed by WildCliff in Chain Battles.
But you run him, and make him burst 1 or even 2 IDs down before letting him die.
Quick Supression can prolly one shot any other IDs.
i don't have him so take this as the theory crafting that its meant to be but maybe he could find a spot in a team alongside pequod ish and a few poise ids now that fell bullet is a thing. poise ids overall have pretty decent ego resources to spam fell bullet(esp pride). i recon pequod ishs takedown or stagger conditonal should be easy to hit with fragile even on tankier enemies which in turn would buff heaths dmg and make him take down the next unit with fell bullet. plus theres an alright amount of bleed among the poise ids. i mean ik theres shi cliff and more importantly pequod cliff but like it could maybe be a fun alternative to just burst through adds so his lack of bullets wouldnt be a problem in long fights anymore. if you have the ids and ego it might be worth a shot to play around with it. and if you do pls lmk. (i could be completely off and this is a horrible idea since i never use any poise ids besides the pequods and in limbus fashion can't be bothered to read up on them too much)
@@kires421In RR4 I don't think you need do much for him
Run him in the +speed slot, Quick Suppression a unit and just let him die shortly after. Though, even without ammo he still clashed extremely well.
@@boxtupos7718 very fair. his numbers seem nice and his s3 looks monstrous. was just thinking of ways he might have been affected by recent additions. feels like a shame that the heathcliff ego that gives ammo is better on a heathcliff thatd doesnt need it xd
i was this done just hours before a new ID released
2:39:33 imagine passing Queen of Hatred smh
3:10:10 doggo jumpscare
Devyat Rodion
vertical gregor
Horizontal gregor
WHY is DIECI RODYA above W DON?!
our limbussies have been shaken
Esgoo's sinking team: 2:15:00
Can we have a hat tier list
Can you please share to link of tiermaker site ?
People are overrating both Funeral Sang and WildCliff because latest event features a special status that made both of them pop the hell off compared to how they actually work out normally without you carefully setting them up.
My Yi Lament is doin great damages even out of events
Seeing as Chain Battles are going to be the norm, WildCliff is going to continue being insane
Not to mention even without that, he is still pretty powerful; Even outside of Sinking.
DingSang is also really good in Sinking, one of the reason why Dieci Rodya+Rimeshank is no longer really needed in Sinking teams. But outside of Sinking he's alright, not to mention RingSang is there; Dude can just be slotted anywhere.
@@jasonmagnes4467 that's why he's still S. He didn't rank him low or anything
Gunsang S3 hits some absurd numbers on S3 with zero prep or sinking beforehand. His S1 also clashes surprisingly well, he is very positive on sinking count and butterflies is a goated status. He's not top 10 or anything due to having significant drawbacks with reloading and stuff but he's undoubtedly S tier. Erlking is cracked for sure and he isn't getting glazed that much in my opinion, his damage ceiling is unreal
@@zeph769 I think it's because people think WildCliff NEEDS 10 Coffin, so they think he's slow to ramp up
But realistically he only needs about 4-6 to start doing absurd damage.
warp don's too high
Is there any way to get multi crtack heathcliff if you iust stared?
Sadly no
You'll have to wait until season 6
Seeing WH fanboys crying gotta be the funniest thing.
The Dieci Rodion cope is insane. Her roles are so average, hell, below average, especially when she doesn’t have insight +3. Oh don’t get me started on how she gains insight. Due to her skill one not discarding, it is unbelievably infuriating to gain insight +3 because often her skill 3 will be on the bottom row, preventing you from discarding it, unlike Dieci Hong Lu, my beloved, who can easily gain insight +3. However, even when she has insight +3, her rolls still SUCK. You need so much sinking in order to reach her skill 2 and 3’s conditionals. “Oh but doesn’t rimeshank fix these issues or whatever?” No it DOESNT. Rimeshank is a top five ego yes, but you need high sp in order to consistently take advantage of it. A floor of 15 for an ego is really REALLY bad, and makes winning clashes with it inconsistent at the best of times. “So just gain sp before you use it,” what is the main way to gain sp I might ask? By winning clashes, which as I stated earlier, she isn’t that good at winning clashes. Now am I saying that Dieci Rodion is a bad ID? Of course not. She’s still arguably the best tank in the time. She has very high damage when her conditionals are met. Even when they aren’t met, her skill 2 and 3 still do a LOT of damage, but saying she’s top five is crazy. I would say she’s around the middle of S tier, but nowhere near Dieci Hong Lu, who is way more consistent, has just as high damage, and doesn’t eat sinking count like crazy, which I forgot to mention. Overall uhhh, Esgoo stinky and is officially banned from the Wildhunt.
Is ring yi sang better than spicebush?
Uuummm.... what? The best ID in the game vs. Sinking Deluge?
indeed
❤
Strem
Damn, bro really values rosespanner rodya THAT high. 10 roll on S1, 17 on S2 and 17 on S3, no support, isn't that good at damage department and doesn't really apply that much count either
Meanwhile Tcorp has much better clashing (without speedUp 13, 16 and 20), bind, good count application and moratorium. Also, great synnergy with clam ego
AND YOU RANKED RYOSHU HIGHER. She exist as substitute for outis (the only two IDs for lust) and as passive provider (also, passive makes faust broken af). Rodya, faust and heathcliff are already more than enough for tremor count (i mean, heath is for egoless. You can do fine without him), when the hell do you even need THAT much count? It's overkill at the price of damage and general utility. Tremor isn't sinking, or rapture, you can't spend THAT MUCH count in one turn, even in 2 or 3, especially because hong lu takes time to setup
You really didn't test tremor well and i'm talking about general content, not mirror dungeon
UPD: i forgot about boatwork ishmael, who can deal more damage than ryoshu, have good tremor count application AND fragile on S3. And also sinking+blind obsession. AND ryoshu also doesn't have good support ego, or any tremor ego
also why the hell is he overrating chef ryoshu so much??
the ID sucks nowadays with her skill 3 having a max roll of 14 lmao
The s3 with max roll of 15 that FOREVER SCALES with the boss hp bloat in this game's lifespan, dealing infinitesimally more damage than pretty much even W ryoshu s3 if the boss health is large enough? Yeah no she's still good. Her s3 can have 0 base and coin power and it will still have the potential to deal the most damage in this game
She has been used in EVERY SINGLE RR SPEEDRUNS, in every fight where even Wryoshu isn't fast enough, or the enemy has 2x lust weak. Even Ting Tang Hong Lu is still used, because his skill 2 deals EVEN MORE damage than Ring Sang's s2. Thinking chef ryoshu is "overrated" is one hell of a take.
aside from what the other person already said healing 20+ per takedown (with chef gregor on the bench) makes her pretty flexible to slot in anywhere imo
@@longnguchicken4580 lmao she doesn't really scale as good as you say.
check the skill 3 again
it's only (max 20).
it's already non-signifact since bosses can reach 3000 hp in this game
@@kires421 also pretty sure her healing is made obsolete by the fact that spider ryoshu basically has way better healing that doesnt even rely on killing an enemy (on top of also healing sp)
@@heartbae87 I totally get why you assume her skill is like that, but no. “Boost damage by 5% of target's missing HP (Max 20)” is completely misleading and it’s not what the skill does at all. Instead, to calculate the bonus damage, it first checks how many times the enemy is missing chunks of 20 HP. 1 bonus damage is gained per chunk of 20 missing HP, but it’s capped to 20 total bonus damage. That bonus damage then benefits from enemy physical resistances, sin resistances, and sinner off lvl/enemy def lvl calculations. Every coin gets that bonus damage. It deals WAY more damage than you think it does.
Yeah
3:06:33
1:54:20 the best voice acting ever!??
2:28:44 Always knew you were a good egg, Esgoo