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I wonder if your problem with the ignition is down to polarity. It was quite common for older cars to have positive earth, whereas modern vehicles invariably have negative earth (due to the issue of galvanic corrosion). If your coil is the wrong type, it will still work but not as well as one made for the correct polarity.
I have electronic ignition on all my pre-War cars, I use Pertronix rather than the much cheaper Accuspark and I now have the resin-filled coils (flamethrower) rather than oil-filled. I would be quite happy to use points & condenser, but with the demise of Lucas and only the choice of dubious modern rubbish or old stock that may or may not be fit to use, as demonstrated by the heel on your points set, I feel that their use is not as good. I have heard stories of electronic ignition modules failing, I have experienced condensers failing (when hot), so neither could be regarded as 100% reliable as they were originally. I have a spare dizzy for longer journeys so can swap over if the need arises, but it is the way things are these days that nothing is as good as it should be! Thanks for sharing! Look forward to part 2.
Excellent video - I tend to feel your workshop geatures are the best. What a joy to see a hard copy manual, instead of today's online versions. Memories came flooding back seeing your refurbishment of the distributor. And yes, I learnt the hard way not to drop screws and washers into the guts of the distributor! In my day there was a felt washer under the rotor arm to stop oil being thrown back up from the bearings and weights. You obviously enjoyed caressing the bakelite distributor cap! Loved your container of multitudinous screwdrivers - I thought I had too many! Amused to see the WD40 'product placement'.
I can see the logic in reverting to mechanical ignition and that is indeed what I would do too in the circumstances. I didn't catch in the video how you made sure the rota arm was at the right distance from the ignition points in the cap. Looking forward to the next installment.
the introduction clip of the low light level in the garage is superb. So glad to hear the Pilot is going back to old school. Those road side lamps are cool. Good to see Harley picking up skills by doing things, the only way to learn. Well done.
Great video, brought back lots of memories of helping my dad with his Pilot. It really is back to old school with what you are doing and diagnosing. Main issues were always the distributor and carburettor settings. I recall helping replace many points and rotors. They have to be in top notch condition, set right with the feeler gauge. There were indeed a few variants of points and distributor caps, you have to get the right ones for the distributor. Make sure there is no play in the rotor arm itself, Dad resleaved it at one point as it was worn a bit. Once you install the distributor you will probably have to reset to the top dead centre, a few degrees off if I recall. The carburettor didn't usually give much problem which a good clean and new gaskets didn't fix, we did play around with the jets a few times to get good flow, cleaning them and small reamer to carefully clean out. We also tried different sizes. Also check all the earthing points to the body. We got it starting much better, but it was delicate in all the settings. But, I still remember cranking it over with the handle many a time, especially in the cold. It was an art to cranking it, usually started on first or second go, sometimes with a squirt of ether down carby helped. The amount of bruised palms I got not doing it correct, lol. Take care, hope to see more of this.
Great video, I totally agree with you. I know it's not always possible and sometimes no longer practical but when it is I'd much rather keep things as standard and original.
In the 1970s I fitted Boyer Branson electronic ignition to my mini. Best thing I did as it cut out the endless wear on the points which affected the point gap of course. Later, I put one on a Renault 4 and again was a success. I welcomed the fitting of electronic ignition to new cars. However, your car is a different case.
I was hoping you would go back to the original points ignition......& it seems that is the decision.. AS you say, millions were made & ran just as Henry designed them ; they were one of the best engines used in WW2. That is a great car ; dont give up ! Cheers from NZ.
@@MrHarleyoldfart Many people seem to think that electronic is better. The previous owner of my Vitesse had fitted it just because he thought it was an upgrade, turned out to be a complete pain, swapped it back to the original set up and it's fine now.
@@tonycox5625 Tony, I wasn't suggesting electronic was better, just that you've had the car running with it so it does work, wheras the 'new' dizzy is untried, i know it was supposedly working but doesn't mean it's still working, i still have points on my '60's V8, not sure i'd go with electronic if the original set up failed, basically because i don't understand how it works, good luck, look forward to part 2, is it out yet?
I agree with you 100 % back to original start from there its great that you can purchase all the original parts no doubt you will fix these problems thank you loved the video
If I owned a car with old school coil and points ignition, I would definitely prefer to keep the original set-up, and not go for electronic! I know that electronic ignition is a good thing when it is part of the original manufactured production. I had a 1989 Volvo 240 with Regina Bendix ignition and fuel injection, and this gave me no trouble over eleven years. Only the plugs came out occasionally for inspection. The car was twenty-one years old when I sold it. Best car that I ever had. I would love a Morris Eight "E-series" or Minor as a simple classic. Best wishes from George
Yes it's fine if it's original fit to the car, but fitting modern gizmos to a 70yr+ old 6v car can have its issues. All the problems I've had over the last 12 months or so, on this, the Dodge pickup, the 4CV and the Standard have been down to poor modern parts.
@@oldclassiccarUK I do suspect that many after-market replacement parts are far less good than the NOS original parts, just as much as I have heard far too many tales of replacement electronic ignition on old school set-ups acting up. The great thing about the old arrangement was that if you are handy with spanners and a screw-driver, you can fix this old ignitions with a few spare parts, which these days days you must carry with you. In the old days any petrol station or garage, the AA and RAC carried these parts, but to most of their patrolmen these days, points would be as much a mystery as a carburettor! I happen to really enjoy fettling an SU carb, or traditional ignitions systems from the days when I tuned a Mini pick-up to a state where it ran beautifully and managed 63 mpg on the M5/6 from Worcester to Shap back in 1979! Not bad going for technology that is now over seventy years old in design. This is exactly why a Morris Eight or Minor would suit me [the Eight especially] as with TLC on a regular basis, they are very reliable. I prefer the Eight for it having a proper chassis, rather than repairing a monocoque Minor. Either way progress on the road will be too slow for some impatient types! A real nice car would be a Rover 75, 90 or best of all 100 P4. Solid engineering and yet simple to keep reliable. The only thing is that they are not much good for passing things, especially passing petrol stations! At least the Pilot has some real get up and go with its V8 engine. Love your channel! best wishes from George
On the face of it, the modifications done to the ignition system would appear to be an improvement in theory. However, with so many variables created, a return to basic principles is really the only sensible way to go.
All the problems I've had over the last 12-18 months with old cars, can be traced directly back to poor modern parts, whether it's this elec ignition, ropey repro fuel pumps, and so on
I reckon it's a good idea to take your ignition system back to standard because it seems to be the first thing owners kick out when they have problems, thinking that electronic is better than the old points. A supply in later years of poor after market points can also bring down the efficiency of the original system. I still have original Motorcraft points in my Mk2 Escort and they continue to give great service when friends of mine have replaced theirs thinking that electronic is better. The DCC on the road lamp is possibly from down the road from you, from Denbighshire County Council. They used to have DCC on everything. I remember the red lamps being replaced for the obviously cheaper to make yellow ones around the 1970's, possibly because yellow is easier to see in the dark and as you noticed the yellow light is brighter. The older lamp may be something to do with direction of traffic. Maybe if you can see the green cross you are travelling on the right side of the road going the right way and if it is the red cross then you are going the wrong way or you are on the wrong side of the road, it's only a guess though. I'm looking forward to watching the next video to see if the new dizzy works.
Oh dear Rick, you seem to be always having trouble with starting your cars ! Let's hope all this work in reverting back to original systems has the desired effect. After all, it was good enough in 1950. Looking forward to your progress in future videos - fingers crossed for you. Those old lamps are great fun - I remember years ago, they used to hang them on Skips in the road. I love the war time one - never seen one like that before. Good luck with the Pilot - hope it all works for you. Take care 🙂
I have read through most of the comments and people are saying what I would have said anyway. I will mention just two things; be sure to check that the coil is correctly wired, reverse polarity will give a weak spark. As you're now going back to points you may need to re-wire the Ballast resistor into the system as electronic systems (for the most part) do not need a Ballast resistor. I will be looking forward to Part 2. Well done to Harley for getting stuck in, that is a good way of learning, you can make a mistake when the dizzy is off the car and that can be put right with ease. Take care Rick and keep warm! 👍👍
It sounds like a good strategy to me, gets you back to a good datum point. My Triumph Stag has twin points, but was alway been difficult to set them and get the dwell angle right. As you’re used new base plates you should be OK with that. I change the StG to electronic ignition which is much easier on a 1976 car than a 1950’s 6volt system. Good luck with the work and hope to see your results in a start up and drive out. I’m out in my Stag today. Cheers Bob
I am unsure if you removed and examined the 'electronic' distributor for faults or other issues. It will be interesting to see what sort of conversion it is or whether it is a complete unit. A previous owner of my Austin A60 fitted a complete replacement distributor from Powerspark in 2012 and it performs flawlessly. I can leave the car for 6 months and it will fire instantly when I start it. Up until 2001, I owned a Morris 1500 (Australian only car) and I fitted a slightly modified (different drive dog I think) Lucas electronic distributor out of a Mini in it. I had years of daily use out of it. It would fire instantly every time, far more reliable than the points, which drove me mad with the constant adjustment and fiddling. The twin point set up of the Ford is a different thing all together so I will be fascinated to see how the 'electronic' version replicates that configuration. The lack of a vacuum advance is also quite interesting. I wonder how they got around that. 😊
Hi, yes it was a complete replacement dizzy rather than a conversion to an existing unit. If you check out the follow-up video it'll show some of the issues I found on initial inspection. Thanks for watching.
Watching other TH-camrs the electronic ignition systems seem to fail quite a lot. Going back to stock is logical to me, unless it has starting issues previous and the change of ignition was supposed to be the cure.
Ive had electronic ign fails at circa 5000mls. But did you check that the coil was wired correctly, +E ? Also some are intended for use with a ballast resistor and may deprive plugs of current if the setup is wrong, diverting all to the starter. Ive even seen the ballast resistor hid under dash, if they fail, it will start on handle but not with starter.
HAs the electronic ignition system actually been wired up correctly in the first place? Does the original Ford system have a reduced voltage supply to the ignition from the ''key'', which hasn't been bypassed? Is the new system actually the correct 'voltage' for the car? Lots of variables, especially when one didn't fit the system oneself...Hall effect contact breaker replacements are marvellous, providing a constant spark, timing-wise...[Points can wobbe all over the shop when checking the timing at full advance].. Electronic modules that can have a variety of built-in advance curves are marvellous too...especially when we consider today's fuel is so different to that of decades ago....when the original advance curves were worked out by the factory? How much nicer it is to have a smooth running motor when out & about...and not something that sounds like chitty chitty bang bang? I'd be starting from 'scratch with that ignition system....Do you have the original instructions, etc for fitting? Is the system actually receiving 'power' when using the ''key'' to start?
Somewhere on the engine or the gearbox, is an earth strap joined to the chassis. On older cars it gets corroded. Make sure it is in good condition, clean with a wire brush or sand paper and make sure it's tight with lock washer. 6 volts is okay but the wiring needs to be well maintained and good condition.
Interesting start to Sunday morning with you guys, the diag and your trace on the HT, no spark, those coils ?, not a fan,I would tried a replacement first, what make of electronic ignition is fitted? I watch Allen Millyard and his engines are all on electronic, he has Boyer systems that work, they are on mine on motorcycle kit are fantastic, high kv coil,and accurate spark timing. I see the traditional has some merits, but my set and forget, no deterioration, no dwell gaps disappearing after couple of thousand miles, cranking loss of spark, how about the high draw from the starter brush gear, they get damp and soft, worth a check. Waiting to hear it go, I did see one these pilots with a SU, adaptor fitted, apparently from BL, era, old Wolsely., manual choke ,super smooth,he said. Best of luck.
Modern kit has its place, but when it packs up there's nothing you can do. I plan to have a spare dizzy with me and I could fit that in about 20 mins at the side of the road
I was watching Flipping Bangers where they encountered problems with a Mercedes 230k's electronics. They called in an autoelectrician who was able to diagnose and fix the system so the car would run. Maybe that could be an idea as an expert could save a lot of time and not cost too much seeing its just a simple electronic ignition system and doesn't incorporate tricky didgital engine management modules. Far better than invoking Joe "The Prince Of Darkness" Lucas!
Wellll Lucas and similar worked well on millions of these engines, so if it's good enough for Henry Ford ... many of these modern upgrades are cheaply made junk (not necessarily in this case, but often) so aren't always a good long-term choice anyway
I have electronic on my 2cv trike, brilliant, is your system designed for 6volt? Six volt systems were notorious for volt drop when starting, a drop to 4volt was normal. I would consider change to 12v negative earth. Would you stick to 1930s medicine when you could have up to date treatment?
Very interesting and educational. It seems a pity to have to abandon the electronic components as they are reputed to be trouble-free, so it will be interesting to see the end result of your re-conversion to original components. It is fairly easy to magnatise a screwdriver and this might help when unscrewing screws that could drop into difficult to retrieve places. Another great video!
Hi Nev, alas there is nothing guaranteed with fitting new-world components onto something very old, whereas on a new car designed with new components in mind, I'm sure they work fine. They probably work ok on some old Pilots too, just not all of them - like mine. Part 2 reveals some more info on the elec dizzy.
I encourage constructive comments as there's always something new to learn, although sometimes the points raised have already been addressed at some stage during the video, or in this case will be covered in part 2 which will be along soon. Thanks for watching.
We had a very large Jaguar dealership from 1948 until 1988 and I was "hands on" in it. I had an apprenticeship with Jaguar Cars and have worked on every make of car you care to mention. I would not dream of advising you what to do as you seem very capable, and it might only confuse you. I think you are correct in taking the vehicle back to how it originally was, otherwise you might be spending a lot of time, and money, unnecessarily........... @@oldclassiccarUK
Your situation re. 'stick with wot l got' vs. 'back to old school' is a dilemma familiar to us old bodgers - with regard to the Ford V8, Rick. In my case l run an Allard 2-seater which came with 'old school' dissy and coil, but electronic regulator. When l had the Pilot engine rebuilt, the builder, a really good hotrod specialist, fitted Stromberg e-Fire ignition (perhaps what you have in your Ford) with a Flamethrower coil and twin 97s. At 1st, all was fine; I then went thru hell for several mths, during which time l discovered a faulty dissy component (rebuilt back at Stromberg who were immensely helpful) and then fuelling issues. The problem is imponderables, when you inherit s.o. else's conversions; you don't know which component is OK and which isn't. The problem with going back to old school is that some of the parts are 73 yrs. old and if faulty or worn it's pitting 'unreliable' against unknown entity. I wonder why your mech. AC fuel pump came with a fuel pressure regulator? Not needed, unless you have a modern (say Pacet) electronic pump. I went this way, and it was part of my nightmare. But l stuck with 'new school' and with professionals advice, and, touch wood, so far it remains resolved. Must say, l'd have been tempted to go 12volt (even just trying a 12v battery with your 6v starter for that extra oomph). I know it's not that simple, of course, but it appears you've now lost your spark, too. Good luck with your travails and frustrations - you've a super car there, once you sort thru the snags. If you want to wrack my brains, you're free to make contact...😊
Thanks Tim, in part 2 I have a peer inside the elec dizzy once removed and it gives a few clues as to why it was a reluctant player, bearing in mind that it had only been installed for a year or so and had perhaps only done a few hundred miles. I take your point about old parts but I have far more luck using proper original fettle-able parts than any modern retro/repro fit, in fact the latter have been the cause of all the problems I've had over the last 12-18 months or so across the vehicles in the garage. Yes it is eFire, or rather was ...
Pardon me for being controversial but, you have jumped the gun with condemning the EI. First I can completely understand fitting it if access to the distributor is so abysmal, especially if you need to set up pesky dual points operation. For me, it's just begging for a "fit and forget" system. Secondly, you've not got to the bottom of why you're only getting 4.8 volts when cranking. Is that what the battery terminal voltage drops to under cranking? It might spell a starter taking far too much current. I should, for your own satisfaction, perform a volt drop test across the sections of the ignition path, thereby identify if there's a voltage loss across the switch or the wiring to the coil. Similarly, do same on both supply cables to the starter and earth's. That way you would be certain you get all the possible power to starter and the system. As someone else said, is the EI a proper 6volt device or a 12v running on 6 volts? Is the coil a 6 volt coil or a 12 volt. If they are, there's no hope on 6 volt supply, let alone 4.8!
When I look more closely at the elec dizzy (part 2) you'll see that all was not well inside ... even with a dedicated 6v supply to the dizzy it didn't work, but like I say more is revealed in pt2
I agree, get rid of the electronic gizmos. I do not like the look of that coil either, none standard, gimmick & probably unreliable. Locking at that distributor, it is going to need a careful re-build. The Vacuum Brake is what we call the auto advance & retard mechanism. So it retards the ignition at tick over, then advances it as the revs increase.
Didn’t they have a device that moved the dizzy from directly off the cam…..through bevel gear and placed it in a more normal situation by the side of the block??…… I know I had a pilot 49 er……🤷🏻♂️
Not normally but I have seen a Pilot with (I think) a later Mercury engine that had the dizzy accessible in a higher up position at the front of the engine
Electronic ignition will not put up with the uneven charging spikes from a dynamo and cut out , it did not like the old out side controlled alternators .
Wouldn't surprise me at all, the old points setup is probably a lot more accommodating for the ups and downs of near-75yr old electrics. Thanks for watching.
Remove and clean the vaccume advance and retard as there is a rubbing block made of either felt or teflon.also the piston may be stuck and needs lubrication and also check the spring .the bore may have to be cleaned also.Adjust the adjusting screw correctly or set it to the same place as removed. CHECK the vaccume line to the manifold is clear??
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I wonder if your problem with the ignition is down to polarity. It was quite common for older cars to have positive earth, whereas modern vehicles invariably have negative earth (due to the issue of galvanic corrosion). If your coil is the wrong type, it will still work but not as well as one made for the correct polarity.
I have electronic ignition on all my pre-War cars, I use Pertronix rather than the much cheaper Accuspark and I now have the resin-filled coils (flamethrower) rather than oil-filled. I would be quite happy to use points & condenser, but with the demise of Lucas and only the choice of dubious modern rubbish or old stock that may or may not be fit to use, as demonstrated by the heel on your points set, I feel that their use is not as good.
I have heard stories of electronic ignition modules failing, I have experienced condensers failing (when hot), so neither could be regarded as 100% reliable as they were originally. I have a spare dizzy for longer journeys so can swap over if the need arises, but it is the way things are these days that nothing is as good as it should be!
Thanks for sharing! Look forward to part 2.
Pleased the old girl is running ok now
Bit like my old boss used to say
The old ways are the best boy😊😊😊
Thanks for video
Excellent video - I tend to feel your workshop geatures are the best. What a joy to see a hard copy manual, instead of today's online versions. Memories came flooding back seeing your refurbishment of the distributor. And yes, I learnt the hard way not to drop screws and washers into the guts of the distributor! In my day there was a felt washer under the rotor arm to stop oil being thrown back up from the bearings and weights. You obviously enjoyed caressing the bakelite distributor cap! Loved your container of multitudinous screwdrivers - I thought I had too many! Amused to see the WD40 'product placement'.
Often garage tinkerings don't make for viable vids but occasionally they come out ok, look out for part 2, thanks for watching as always
I can see the logic in reverting to mechanical ignition and that is indeed what I would do too in the circumstances. I didn't catch in the video how you made sure the rota arm was at the right distance from the ignition points in the cap. Looking forward to the next installment.
the introduction clip of the low light level in the garage is superb. So glad to hear the Pilot is going back to old school. Those road side lamps are cool. Good to see Harley picking up skills by doing things, the only way to learn. Well done.
Thank you both for another great detective video ! Going to watch another one now (Vera). 👍🏼
Great video, brought back lots of memories of helping my dad with his Pilot. It really is back to old school with what you are doing and diagnosing. Main issues were always the distributor and carburettor settings. I recall helping replace many points and rotors. They have to be in top notch condition, set right with the feeler gauge. There were indeed a few variants of points and distributor caps, you have to get the right ones for the distributor. Make sure there is no play in the rotor arm itself, Dad resleaved it at one point as it was worn a bit. Once you install the distributor you will probably have to reset to the top dead centre, a few degrees off if I recall. The carburettor didn't usually give much problem which a good clean and new gaskets didn't fix, we did play around with the jets a few times to get good flow, cleaning them and small reamer to carefully clean out. We also tried different sizes. Also check all the earthing points to the body. We got it starting much better, but it was delicate in all the settings. But, I still remember cranking it over with the handle many a time, especially in the cold. It was an art to cranking it, usually started on first or second go, sometimes with a squirt of ether down carby helped. The amount of bruised palms I got not doing it correct, lol. Take care, hope to see more of this.
Going back to original would make logical common sense to me. Good experience for HJ.
Indeed, it may put him off for life!
Great video, I totally agree with you. I know it's not always possible and sometimes no longer practical but when it is I'd much rather keep things as standard and original.
A great start to a Sunday morning 🎉
Back to Principles... Classic!!
Love a bit of tinkering in the garage😊 fingers crossed for the V8 start up😗
In the 1970s I fitted Boyer Branson electronic ignition to my mini. Best thing I did as it cut out the endless wear on the points which affected the point gap of course. Later, I put one on a Renault 4 and again was a success. I welcomed the fitting of electronic ignition to new cars. However, your car is a different case.
I was hoping you would go back to the original points ignition......& it seems that is the decision.. AS you say, millions were made & ran just as Henry designed them ; they were one of the best engines used in WW2. That is a great car ; dont give up ! Cheers from NZ.
I Would find out why the previous owner changed the carb and got electronic ignition,
must have been a good reason.
@@MrHarleyoldfart Many people seem to think that electronic is better. The previous owner of my Vitesse had fitted it just because he thought it was an upgrade, turned out to be a complete pain, swapped it back to the original set up and it's fine now.
@@tonycox5625 Tony, I wasn't suggesting electronic was better, just that you've had the car running with it so it does work, wheras the 'new' dizzy is untried, i know it was supposedly working but doesn't mean it's still working, i still have points on my '60's V8, not sure i'd go with electronic if the original set up failed, basically because i don't understand how it works, good luck, look forward to part 2, is it out yet?
I agree with you 100 % back to original start from there its great that you can purchase all the original parts no doubt you will fix these problems thank you loved the video
If I owned a car with old school coil and points ignition, I would definitely prefer to keep the original set-up, and not go for electronic!
I know that electronic ignition is a good thing when it is part of the original manufactured production. I had a 1989 Volvo 240 with Regina Bendix ignition and fuel injection, and this gave me no trouble over eleven years. Only the plugs came out occasionally for inspection. The car was twenty-one years old when I sold it. Best car that I ever had.
I would love a Morris Eight "E-series" or Minor as a simple classic.
Best wishes from George
Yes it's fine if it's original fit to the car, but fitting modern gizmos to a 70yr+ old 6v car can have its issues. All the problems I've had over the last 12 months or so, on this, the Dodge pickup, the 4CV and the Standard have been down to poor modern parts.
@@oldclassiccarUK I do suspect that many after-market replacement parts are far less good than the NOS original parts, just as much as I have heard far too many tales of replacement electronic ignition on old school set-ups acting up. The great thing about the old arrangement was that if you are handy with spanners and a screw-driver, you can fix this old ignitions with a few spare parts, which these days days you must carry with you.
In the old days any petrol station or garage, the AA and RAC carried these parts, but to most of their patrolmen these days, points would be as much a mystery as a carburettor!
I happen to really enjoy fettling an SU carb, or traditional ignitions systems from the days when I tuned a Mini pick-up to a state where it ran beautifully and managed 63 mpg on the M5/6 from Worcester to Shap back in 1979!
Not bad going for technology that is now over seventy years old in design.
This is exactly why a Morris Eight or Minor would suit me [the Eight especially] as with TLC on a regular basis, they are very reliable. I prefer the Eight for it having a proper chassis, rather than repairing a monocoque Minor. Either way progress on the road will be too slow for some impatient types!
A real nice car would be a Rover 75, 90 or best of all 100 P4. Solid engineering and yet simple to keep reliable. The only thing is that they are not much good for passing things, especially passing petrol stations!
At least the Pilot has some real get up and go with its V8 engine.
Love your channel!
best wishes from George
On the face of it, the modifications done to the ignition system would appear to be an improvement in theory. However, with so many variables created, a return to basic principles is really the only sensible way to go.
All the problems I've had over the last 12-18 months with old cars, can be traced directly back to poor modern parts, whether it's this elec ignition, ropey repro fuel pumps, and so on
I reckon it's a good idea to take your ignition system back to standard because it seems to be the first thing owners kick out when they have problems, thinking that electronic is better than the old points. A supply in later years of poor after market points can also bring down the efficiency of the original system. I still have original Motorcraft points in my Mk2 Escort and they continue to give great service when friends of mine have replaced theirs thinking that electronic is better. The DCC on the road lamp is possibly from down the road from you, from Denbighshire County Council. They used to have DCC on everything. I remember the red lamps being replaced for the obviously cheaper to make yellow ones around the 1970's, possibly because yellow is easier to see in the dark and as you noticed the yellow light is brighter. The older lamp may be something to do with direction of traffic. Maybe if you can see the green cross you are travelling on the right side of the road going the right way and if it is the red cross then you are going the wrong way or you are on the wrong side of the road, it's only a guess though. I'm looking forward to watching the next video to see if the new dizzy works.
Oh dear Rick, you seem to be always having trouble with starting your cars ! Let's hope all this work in reverting back to original systems has the desired effect. After all, it was good enough in 1950. Looking forward to your progress in future videos - fingers crossed for you. Those old lamps are great fun - I remember years ago, they used to hang them on Skips in the road. I love the war time one - never seen one like that before. Good luck with the Pilot - hope it all works for you. Take care 🙂
Pretty much all the problems I've had over the last 12-18 months have been down to poor modern parts, I may do a video just about that actually
It may be worth checking the starter as it could be using too much power, worn brushes or seizing, does the starter get hot when cranking ?
Starter seemed ok, and the car would start when warmed up, but not cold
I have read through most of the comments and people are saying what I would have said anyway. I will mention just two things; be sure to check that the coil is correctly wired, reverse polarity will give a weak spark. As you're now going back to points you may need to re-wire the Ballast resistor into the system as electronic systems (for the most part) do not need a Ballast resistor. I will be looking forward to Part 2. Well done to Harley for getting stuck in, that is a good way of learning, you can make a mistake when the dizzy is off the car and that can be put right with ease. Take care Rick and keep warm! 👍👍
A Ballast resistor springs to mind with poor starting, not sure about the technical implications though. Good luck !
It sounds like a good strategy to me, gets you back to a good datum point. My Triumph Stag has twin points, but was alway been difficult to set them and get the dwell angle right. As you’re used new base plates you should be OK with that. I change the StG to electronic ignition which is much easier on a 1976 car than a 1950’s 6volt system.
Good luck with the work and hope to see your results in a start up and drive out. I’m out in my Stag today. Cheers Bob
I am unsure if you removed and examined the 'electronic' distributor for faults or other issues. It will be interesting to see what sort of conversion it is or whether it is a complete unit. A previous owner of my Austin A60 fitted a complete replacement distributor from Powerspark in 2012 and it performs flawlessly. I can leave the car for 6 months and it will fire instantly when I start it. Up until 2001, I owned a Morris 1500 (Australian only car) and I fitted a slightly modified (different drive dog I think) Lucas electronic distributor out of a Mini in it. I had years of daily use out of it. It would fire instantly every time, far more reliable than the points, which drove me mad with the constant adjustment and fiddling. The twin point set up of the Ford is a different thing all together so I will be fascinated to see how the 'electronic' version replicates that configuration. The lack of a vacuum advance is also quite interesting. I wonder how they got around that. 😊
Hi, yes it was a complete replacement dizzy rather than a conversion to an existing unit. If you check out the follow-up video it'll show some of the issues I found on initial inspection. Thanks for watching.
Watching other TH-camrs the electronic ignition systems seem to fail quite a lot. Going back to stock is logical to me, unless it has starting issues previous and the change of ignition was supposed to be the cure.
Marvellous. Videos like this make my Sundays.
Glad you like them!
9:00 Do return line to tank, above the carb fuel level. It keep pressure OK.
Ive had electronic ign fails at circa 5000mls. But did you check that the coil was wired correctly, +E ? Also some are intended for use with a ballast resistor and may deprive plugs of current if the setup is wrong, diverting all to the starter. Ive even seen the ballast resistor hid under dash, if they fail, it will start on handle but not with starter.
Yes it had been set up as per the supplied wiring, it just didn't work when cold
You did check that the electronic unit is suitable for 6 volt operation ?. I would have thought modern electronic systems were 12 volt working .
It was a complete 6v electronic distributor bought from a supplier of early Ford parts, inc V8s.
HAs the electronic ignition system actually been wired up correctly in the first place? Does the original Ford system have a reduced voltage supply to the ignition from the ''key'', which hasn't been bypassed? Is the new system actually the correct 'voltage' for the car? Lots of variables, especially when one didn't fit the system oneself...Hall effect contact breaker replacements are marvellous, providing a constant spark, timing-wise...[Points can wobbe all over the shop when checking the timing at full advance].. Electronic modules that can have a variety of built-in advance curves are marvellous too...especially when we consider today's fuel is so different to that of decades ago....when the original advance curves were worked out by the factory? How much nicer it is to have a smooth running motor when out & about...and not something that sounds like chitty chitty bang bang? I'd be starting from 'scratch with that ignition system....Do you have the original instructions, etc for fitting? Is the system actually receiving 'power' when using the ''key'' to start?
Yes it had all been fitted as per book, this vid and the next one to follow cover pretty much everything I had to do
Somewhere on the engine or the gearbox, is an earth strap joined to the chassis. On older cars it gets corroded. Make sure it is in good condition, clean with a wire brush or sand paper and make sure it's tight with lock washer. 6 volts is okay but the wiring needs to be well maintained and good condition.
Agreed I spent a lot of time faffing around with earths etc
Interesting start to Sunday morning with you guys, the diag and your trace on the HT, no spark, those coils ?, not a fan,I would tried a replacement first, what make of electronic ignition is fitted?
I watch Allen Millyard and his engines are all on electronic, he has Boyer systems that work, they are on mine on motorcycle kit are fantastic, high kv coil,and accurate spark timing. I see the traditional has some merits, but my set and forget, no deterioration, no dwell gaps disappearing after couple of thousand miles, cranking loss of spark, how about the high draw from the starter brush gear, they get damp and soft, worth a check.
Waiting to hear it go, I did see one these pilots with a SU, adaptor fitted, apparently from BL, era, old Wolsely., manual choke ,super smooth,he said. Best of luck.
Modern kit has its place, but when it packs up there's nothing you can do. I plan to have a spare dizzy with me and I could fit that in about 20 mins at the side of the road
I was watching Flipping Bangers where they encountered problems with a Mercedes 230k's electronics. They called in an autoelectrician who was able to diagnose and fix the system so the car would run. Maybe that could be an idea as an expert could save a lot of time and not cost too much seeing its just a simple electronic ignition system and doesn't incorporate tricky didgital engine management modules. Far better than invoking Joe "The Prince Of Darkness" Lucas!
Wellll Lucas and similar worked well on millions of these engines, so if it's good enough for Henry Ford ... many of these modern upgrades are cheaply made junk (not necessarily in this case, but often) so aren't always a good long-term choice anyway
Just a small note, I didnt see any insulators on the sprung half of the points.2 tophat shaped pieces of plastic.I hope i am wrong
Pretty sure everything was there, keep an eye out for the part 2 video coming soon
@@oldclassiccarUK Hi you did not take one out, hopefully you found some. All the points I have fitted that is not included.
Did you try dumping some gasoline down the carb? You mentioned plugs were dry after cranking.
The main issue was no spark, fuel I wasn't too worried about tbh
It's Sunday and OCC is tinkering with his gorgeous V8 Pilot.
It doesn't get much better than this.
You're too kind, look out for part 2 coming along soon ...!
I have electronic on my 2cv trike, brilliant, is your system designed for 6volt? Six volt systems were notorious for volt drop when starting, a drop to 4volt was normal. I would consider change to 12v negative earth. Would you stick to 1930s medicine when you could have up to date treatment?
I like to stick with what works, and the original setup worked. Yes it's a kit sold specifically for 6v flathead V8s.
jubilee clips on petrol pipes is a no no !!
Not ideal true, once it's running right I'll look at the clips again
Very interesting and educational. It seems a pity to have to abandon the electronic components as they are reputed to be trouble-free, so it will be interesting to see the end result of your re-conversion to original components. It is fairly easy to magnatise a screwdriver and this might help when unscrewing screws that could drop into difficult to retrieve places. Another great video!
You have surge protectors to stop spikes on household and late model vehicles electronics .
Hi Nev, alas there is nothing guaranteed with fitting new-world components onto something very old, whereas on a new car designed with new components in mind, I'm sure they work fine. They probably work ok on some old Pilots too, just not all of them - like mine. Part 2 reveals some more info on the elec dizzy.
I never realised how many "armchair" mechanics there were...............
I encourage constructive comments as there's always something new to learn, although sometimes the points raised have already been addressed at some stage during the video, or in this case will be covered in part 2 which will be along soon. Thanks for watching.
We had a very large Jaguar dealership from 1948 until 1988 and I was "hands on" in it. I had an apprenticeship with Jaguar Cars and have worked on every make of car you care to mention. I would not dream of advising you what to do as you seem very capable, and it might only confuse you. I think you are correct in taking the vehicle back to how it originally was, otherwise you might be spending a lot of time, and money, unnecessarily........... @@oldclassiccarUK
"Original is best...!
In this case I believe so
Back to basics tricky tronics nowadays will be Chinese of origins omg to be avoided .
Agreed, a lot of these upgrades are very poorly made, look out for the part 2 video coming soon!
Your situation re. 'stick with wot l got' vs. 'back to old school' is a dilemma familiar to us old bodgers - with regard to the Ford V8, Rick. In my case l run an Allard 2-seater which came with 'old school' dissy and coil, but electronic regulator. When l had the Pilot engine rebuilt, the builder, a really good hotrod specialist, fitted Stromberg e-Fire ignition (perhaps what you have in your Ford) with a Flamethrower coil and twin 97s. At 1st, all was fine; I then went thru hell for several mths, during which time l discovered a faulty dissy component (rebuilt back at Stromberg who were immensely helpful) and then fuelling issues.
The problem is imponderables, when you inherit s.o. else's conversions; you don't know which component is OK and which isn't.
The problem with going back to old school is that some of the parts are 73 yrs. old and if faulty or worn it's pitting 'unreliable' against unknown entity. I wonder why your mech. AC fuel pump came with a fuel pressure regulator? Not needed, unless you have a modern (say Pacet) electronic pump. I went this way, and it was part of my nightmare. But l stuck with 'new school' and with professionals advice, and, touch wood, so far it remains resolved. Must say, l'd have been tempted to go 12volt (even just trying a 12v battery with your 6v starter for that extra oomph). I know it's not that simple, of course, but it appears you've now lost your spark, too. Good luck with your travails and frustrations - you've a super car there, once you sort thru the snags. If you want to wrack my brains, you're free to make contact...😊
Thanks Tim, in part 2 I have a peer inside the elec dizzy once removed and it gives a few clues as to why it was a reluctant player, bearing in mind that it had only been installed for a year or so and had perhaps only done a few hundred miles. I take your point about old parts but I have far more luck using proper original fettle-able parts than any modern retro/repro fit, in fact the latter have been the cause of all the problems I've had over the last 12-18 months or so across the vehicles in the garage. Yes it is eFire, or rather was ...
Pardon me for being controversial but, you have jumped the gun with condemning the EI. First I can completely understand fitting it if access to the distributor is so abysmal, especially if you need to set up pesky dual points operation. For me, it's just begging for a "fit and forget" system. Secondly, you've not got to the bottom of why you're only getting 4.8 volts when cranking. Is that what the battery terminal voltage drops to under cranking? It might spell a starter taking far too much current. I should, for your own satisfaction, perform a volt drop test across the sections of the ignition path, thereby identify if there's a voltage loss across the switch or the wiring to the coil. Similarly, do same on both supply cables to the starter and earth's. That way you would be certain you get all the possible power to starter and the system. As someone else said, is the EI a proper 6volt device or a 12v running on 6 volts? Is the coil a 6 volt coil or a 12 volt. If they are, there's no hope on 6 volt supply, let alone 4.8!
When I look more closely at the elec dizzy (part 2) you'll see that all was not well inside ... even with a dedicated 6v supply to the dizzy it didn't work, but like I say more is revealed in pt2
PS yes a proper 6v kit sold specifically for this engine
I agree, get rid of the electronic gizmos. I do not like the look of that coil either, none standard, gimmick & probably unreliable. Locking at that distributor, it is going to need a careful re-build. The Vacuum Brake is what we call the auto advance & retard mechanism. So it retards the ignition at tick over, then advances it as the revs increase.
Keep an eye out for the part 2 video coming soon!
Please pardon me forsuggesting the obvious, as a possible temporary help. Starting fluid. I keepa pressurized can of the stuff on my workbench.
Naa that just masks the problems, and anyway there was no spark
Didn’t they have a device that moved the dizzy from directly off the cam…..through bevel gear and placed it in a more normal situation by the side of the block??…… I know I had a pilot 49 er……🤷🏻♂️
Not normally but I have seen a Pilot with (I think) a later Mercury engine that had the dizzy accessible in a higher up position at the front of the engine
You might contact another TH-camr who has a 1936 ish ford v8 for any info he may have ,his channel is called marts garage good luck!
Electronic ignition will not put up with the uneven charging spikes from a dynamo and cut out , it did not like the old out side controlled alternators .
Wouldn't surprise me at all, the old points setup is probably a lot more accommodating for the ups and downs of near-75yr old electrics. Thanks for watching.
Remove and clean the vaccume advance and retard as there is a rubbing block made of either felt or teflon.also the piston may be stuck and needs lubrication and also check the spring .the bore may have to be cleaned also.Adjust the adjusting screw correctly or set it to the same place as removed. CHECK the vaccume line to the manifold is clear??
Hi, I had to make a new vacuum line, I may have mentioned it in this upload
Seriously think about going 12 volt .
Naa this Optima battery throws it over just perfectly