BANNED: Woodworking's most dangerous tool?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2021
- Why the UK banned the chainsaw carving disc that injured me- and personal responsibility...
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--Link to document outlining the UK restrictions: www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-safety-alert-issued-for-angle-grinder-chainsaw-disc-attachment
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-Mechanical Pencils: amzn.to/2PA7bwK
-Lumber pencil: amzn.to/2QtwZjv
-Pocket Measuring Tape: amzn.to/2kNTlI9
-Irwin Drill Bit Gauge: amzn.to/2AwTkQg
-Nut/Bolt/Screw Gauge: amzn.to/2CuvxSK
-Self-Centering Punch: amzn.to/2QvbcrC
-Self-Centering Bits: amzn.to/2xs71UW
-Angle Cube: lddy.no/10nam
-Steel Ruler: lddy.no/10mv7
-Utility knife: amzn.to/3nfhIiv
-Center-Finding Ruler: lddy.no/10nak
-Bit & Blade Cleaner: amzn.to/2TfvEOI
-Digital depth gauge: amzn.to/3mwRf2x
-Wood Glue: amzn.to/3mqek6M
-Spade Bits: amzn.to/3j8XPtD
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE HAND TOOLS★
-Digital Caliper: amzn.to/384H1Or
-Marking Gauge: lddy.no/10muz
-Marking knife: lddy.no/10mv0
-Narex Chisels: lddy.no/sqm3
-Stanley Sweetheart Chisels: amzn.to/3y5HDOc
-Mini Pull Saw: amzn.to/2UEHBz6
-Gent Saw: lddy.no/ss2x
-Coping saw: amzn.to/2W7ZiUS
-Shinwa Rulers: lddy.no/zl13
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE POWER TOOLS★
-Miter Saw: amzn.to/3gqIlQ8
-Jointer: amzn.to/3yc3gfZ
-Planer: amzn.to/3mn6BGF
-Router: amzn.to/3grD22S
-Sander: amzn.to/3DdvD0Y
-Cordless drill: amzn.to/3D9ZiIm
-Brad nailer: amzn.to/3gsRkjH
-Mini Compressor: amzn.to/3mvrmQr
-Bladerunner: amzn.to/2Wl0TtJ
-Jig Saw: amzn.to/3zetTBY
-Scroll Saw: amzn.to/3gq9qDc
-Multi-Tool: amzn.to/3muZuMi
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-Drill Bits: amzn.to/3B8Ckzh
-Forstner Bits: amzn.to/3kk3wEI
-Shop Vacuum: amzn.to/2Wkqnbl
-Machine Setup Blocks: amzn.to/3gq7kDh
-Counter-Sink Bit: amzn.to/37ZukUo
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Would you be willing to post the pictures of your injury online? Maybe on you website or just a link specifically set up for this video?
I love your dedication to safety and your ability convey the message in a way that the average person can understand and accept.
@@Bearcrapsinwoods They are in the original video: th-cam.com/video/A7xWHEWov8M/w-d-xo.html (BE WARNED)
@@StumpyNubs That video shows how severe an injury can be even if you think you are in full controll of a ''simple power tool.'' It even touches on some of the inadequacies of our healthcare system.
Great advice. Thank you for sharing.
Peace
Man, I remember the original vid and can say with absolute confidence that there is NO WAY I would be holding and touching that thing for the sake of a follow up. We all know it's unplugged but I wouldn't even be able to look at the thing let alone be handling it the way you are. Thanks for overcoming your injury PTSD for the sake of this message.
I was a 14 year old attempting a massive woodcarving project. at that time, there were not very many power tools for the job. So, when I have seen this chainsaw disk in my local shop, I was super excited to get it. The guy did not sell it to me. And I had to finish the project with a tiny chisel. Thank you wise man, I am now a grown man still with full set of testicles!
If it had been a big box store you’d probably be telling a different story.
That story escalated quickly at the end
wow, that's a great story!
Remember to wear your steel-toe jock strap kids
that man saved your nuts from being picked by a power tool
"Imagine a chainsaw that is nothing but tip." The perfect description of these kickback devils.
Yeah except the angle grinder also spins a lot faster.
And you also get to hold it from right next to the tip.
Just the tip. *snicker*
In all seriousness, the first time I saw these I honestly wondered to myself "what psychopathic maniac thought *that* was a good idea?"
More power to people that want to use them and believe them safe. I'm one of those jerks that believe stupidity and ignorance should be painful teachers when they give lessons. Most people aren't aware of what they don't know and this little blade of mutilation will teach them that real quick.
I've been doing woodworking in one form or another since I was about 10-ish (I'm currently 41). There's a reason I hate working with power tools: I'm human and humans make mistakes. I know I'm not supposed to stand directly behind a table saw and yet when I'm distracted I still do it. I know I'm not supposed to hold something in my hand while using a drill press, but I still do it when I'm in a hurry. I know that many hand-held tools are meant to be used with both hands and the work piece firmly attached to a stable surface, yet sometimes that just doesn't happen. To think humans have infallible attention spans and never make mistakes is some serious hubris that just blows my mind.
@@AC-cg4be Working with power tools is similar to driving. It comes with a certain risk, but you can't not use power tools or not drive because it would make your job too inefficient and the world wouldn't work the way it does anymore. You just have to accept the risk, but this particular tool, the risk is way too high.
@@mrkiky As someone that works with chainsaws in trees for a living, and is very comfortable with power tools and dangerous equipment, I agree!
Even when an angle grinder is unplugged, I can't help but feel instant anxiety seeing people rest their hands on the disc or blade lol
That was freaking me out too. I wish he'd at least lay the cord out on the workbench so we could see it unplugged.
I do fine with that but it’s when someone drops a angle grinder on the floor wher they’re grabbing the welder
@@geoffhurley8103 You can actually see the plug to his left, clamped on the side of the bench.
Routers and power planers have the same effect on me. Chop saws and plunge saws are my friends.
@@geoffhurley8103 He did…
When I started woodworking, I was sure the table saw was by far my most dangerous tool and I was super cautious, took a safety class that covered table saws, band saws, circular saws, jointers, and planers. And then I had a cutting disc fly off my tiny little Dremel tool, whizz by my head and embed in the wall because I failed to attach it correctly. I put the Dremel down and went in the house and Googled safety on every single power tool I had, no matter how small. Scared the crap out of me. So thanks for this.
I've heard jointers are the worst. Not the most because most people don't have them.
@@brokenrecord3523 Table saws - fingers may be reattached, depending on the injury.
Jointers - yeah, no. That finger doesn't exist anymore!
The kickback of a wire wheel catching an edge is terrifying enough, the idea of chainsaw teeth on an angle grinder is terrifying.
Workshop: no
Battle Bot or Horror Movie: yes
Years of using wire wheels and cups is perfect training this. Still, the thing is so obscenly dangerous I almost never use it. Light, controlled shaping only!
As Stumpy said it was on the none cutting stroke so he had probably relaxed his grip at the time .... bloody awful tool it is.
@@carlodave9 you have bigger balls than me I wouldn’t go near that thing.
What's scary is cups have more give and less weight than that chain wheel if you can believe it! First time I saw one it took two seconds to decide NOPE!
I've used chainsaws for over 50 years, even professionally in my youthful logging days. The first time I saw one of those chainsaw angle grinder discs, I muttered, "WTF" and felt queasy just looking at it. Years later I watched your videos about your misadventures with the damn thing. Queasy all over again. Thanks for this reasonable and persuasive warning.
I had the exact same reaction, and same level of experience. These wheels really give me pause. I actually own one- I inherited it from a workshop liquidation- and I've never (dared) use it.
"See what it does to this wood, imagine what it can do to you."
I've seen those discs and been impressed by what they can do but with chainsaw experience and angler grinder experience gone "I don't know man... doesn't seem that safe".
Did you notice at 4:55 that the blade is installed in reverse? It's cutting with the rear side of the tooth. Perhaps the mfr thought that would make it safe. Not a 50-year experienced chainsawer here, but I do have some experience (and own three Stihl gas saws plus a few other brands of electrics). I thought the same "WTF" when I saw one of these discs. Not at all tempted to buy one. Even with the reversed blade, it's all tip, and a pretty large radius. Much larger than my yellow-label bars.
How did you feel watching James grabbing the chain every couple of seconds?
Ye, it's blatantly insane to use this type of disk without some serious kickback protection. You wouldn't use a 13 inch bar with a giant nose radius on a chainsaw without an inertial chain brake as it would cut you bad if you messed up even once. If people want to use this on their angle grinder, they NEED an inertial disk brake to stop the disk before it hits them, other wise it's too dangerous to use in my opinion.
As a retired timber cutter, the first time I saw that tool I expected multiple serious injuries. Anyone with a knowledge of chainsaws would openly see the disastrous potential with that hamburger shredder. I'm glad you're speaking on this issue.
I've been a welder for 7 years and I use a 4 inch grinder daily. That disc looks so cool but I would definitely never recommend someone ever using this without mastery of both the flapper disc and the cutoff wheel. Out of all the big blades, saws and high current equipment I use, the small 4 inch grinder is one of the scariest I use because it can mess you up if you get complacent with it.
I've learned more about saving grinding discs thank filler metal as a welder, and that's just for cutting stock! I have a lot of safety equipment when I use an angle grinder, because that little bastard is spinning at 20,000 rpm, that's a whole lot more energy than most bullets.
In all my years working with metal id have to agree. Had one grab and then try to walk up my arm. Ill take weld spatter in my boot over that any day.
I'm a shipfitter and use angle grinders constantly.
They are definitely dangerous tools.
I will say that bur motors (pencil grinders) scare me the most; getting a bur in your eye is an extremely uncomfortable and terrifying accident.
@@fordgtguy honestly I don't use die grinders for mostly that reason. The chips go everywhere and grit always seems to get under my helmet and glasses into my eyes! At least angle grinders are big enough to point away from me
@@keatoncampbell820 Yeah, unfortunately I have to use them from time to time.
I usually just wear a full face respirator and a flash hood and make sure to clean everything afterwards.
For those wondering why I would use such extreme PPE, I can be required to use them overhead and in very tight places.
I lost a finger just watching this.
I’m sure it’s around somewhere, look in the sofa cushions.
Bee does not have finger.
Bag it up and get to the hospital. They'll glue it back on and you can live your life knowing the paradoxical joy of feeling numbness AND searing pain simultaneously.
If you don't get it to hospital in a few days toss it to a dog, endless fun untill he eats it.
I work with grinders most days, it was making me cringe at the thought haha
Luckily I work with stone so there can be a kick but the blades tend to glide than to bite.
Yeah, had more stitches (internal and external) than I thought possible and lost a 7 inch chunk of my thigh to that POS. Guard and handle made no difference when it caught, nearly broke my wrist as it easily powered it's way past to my leg. Never felt kickback like that.
Used multiple times without incident but it only took once.
Still no idea what caused it in my situation. Just no problem, no problem, no problem, bam - ambulance and extreme blood loss.
I'm not a weekend warrior, contracting was my life. There's no amount of time saved worth the risk that thing poses.
I wish some of the "tough guys" around here who think they can just "be careful" all the time because "only idiots get hurt" would read this comment. Just because they haven't been hurt YET doesn't mean this thing isn't waiting for the slightest mishap to exact a heavy toll. We use dangerous tools every day, but THIS tool is different. it isn't just dangerous, it is RECKLESS!
@@StumpyNubs seems like it was just the one Tough Guy in this case, there's always one but I wish he didn't feel the need to go and flex on multiple comments.
I feel like he's the kind of dude who would use a 9" widowmaker without a guard. I've personally never seen someone do that, but the bloke who taught me how to properly use a grinder has. He was present when the guy got carted off to hospital and told me the whole story. That's the kind of tale that sticks with you, just like Joseph's.
My troll account here, but not trolling this post. I got my pinky smashed in a log splitter. I feel your pain. The wood got caught and was jamming the controls, when I tried to free the log, it unjammed for a second, pinched my pinky and as I pulled my hand back it ripped out the fingernail. Ouch, man. I wish you a speedy recovery. Everyone be hyper alert when using power tools.
The first time I saw that attachment at a store , I was very interested in getting 1 , but decided to look on line to see if I could get it cheaper. I'm very glad I did as that is how I found out how incredibly dangerous they were.
@@StumpyNubs I've learned, and I'm an amateur, that if you use power tools long enough, you're going to get bit. You'll be lucky if it's a small bite and you had better learn from it. So I don't pay a lot of attention to those people who say they've never been hurt because it means they've never used tools often enough. I was taught to have respect for manual tools (you can do immense damage with a box knife or a chisel) and much more respect for power tools. Needless to say, anyone who has used a chainsaw develops a respect for it (or should) because all operators bind them the first few times. I don't know anyone who doesn't develop respect because of it. Knowing that, all you have to do is look at this blade to know it's an abomination that wants to kill you first chance it gets. Great for everything usually means good for nothing.
Finally someone who recognizes that "personal responsibility" isn't just a magic spell to rationalize away the responsibility of everyone else.
Ya, using personal responsibility as an argument solely essentially ignores the statistical odds of harm.
@@ironheadrondo5596 Even that is insufficient because you are likely to guess the danger wrong or use the wrong care. And some things are always dangerous with any level of reasonable care. (Sure, you could attach the tool to a set of pulleys and remotely manipulate it from behind a blast shield...)
Exactly. It’s my personal responsibility to ensure no one gains access to my bank account. But if I get a social engineering call from a scammer who cons me out of my money, *they* are the one committing a crime, no matter how much responsibility I bear to myself. Now consider that they’re not just doing that to me, they’re doing it to old people, people with mental conditions, etc. When lying, cheating, and otherwise endangering people for your personal profit becomes an enterprise, it might be time to actually stop the person doing it IN ADDITION to educating people.
Yea I always blame myself for someon else's mistakes.
And on the other hand I blame everyone else for my mistakes.
Because personal responsibility does not exist anymore correct????
ALL LIBERAL BULL CRAP.
If you have never used a tool you either find someone that has experience with it, or you take things very slow and one step at a time.
YOU ARE TRULY RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERYTHING YOU DO.
If you pick up a tool you've never used before.
You have NOONE TO BLAME FOR WHAT HAPPENS.
It's up to you what you set into motion.
It's your own body.
It's your safety
It's your responsibility
And It's your fault, if you put yourself in a bad situation.
It's called being an adult.
And taking responsibility for yourself.
Man, I've had normal grinder discs fail and explode, I can't even imagine having a damn chainsaw disc fail catastrophically at 13,000 RPM. It's sketchy enough when it happens on a chainsaw and the chain wrap itself around a tree or shreds some chaps, that little death machine just seems straight dangerous. Cool concept though.
Can they really explode?
I oftener wondered that
But how?
@@bradley5819 yes any rotating cutter or grinding stone can explode. It is centrifugal force the greater the speed the stronger the force. Often it happens when the machine is first powered up . Result of an impact on the grinding device or defective material. Cutting disks will explode if pinched by the material being cut . This is the reason guards are installed around the circumference of the wheel limiting the directions broken parts can depart the arbor. Many machines come with warnings about staying out of the rotational plane of the stone when powering it up .
@@bradley5819 I was using one of the thin metal cutting disks as a grinder disc (using the flat surface instead of the edge). It eventually disintegrated and flew about 40 feet away.. Definitely could be bad if it hit you in the neck or something.
I just cant imagine what this does that other tools wont do safer and more effectively.
I believe you offer the most safety instructions of anyone I have seen on TH-cam. Thanks for being a responsible and conscientious teacher.
A crucial difference between metal and wood is that wood can split and catch your tool. Add a tool that is designed to take large chips, and you have a recipe for desaster. I have years of experience with angle grinders and I wouldn't touch this. My spine tingles just from the thought of using it. When you use an aggressive tool, think of this: you are the softest object in the shop!
THAT END
10/10
Metal can grab the cutting disc too... cutting thick material with bad visibility, at night, above your head, 30 feet up on a shaky boom. Or when thick wire is experiencing bending forces (secured on both sides of the cut ofc.). But then the tool stops or the disc gets damaged, not the user.
Chainsaw has a mechanic brake in case of kickback, and you can't lock it in "on" position (at least not without duct tape...). also lower rpm. Unless the chain breaks or a tree falls on you, it's quite safe I guess. Angle grinder with this attachment on the other hand has none of the safety measures + higher rpm.
my arse is clenched tight just looking at it attached to a grinder
@@Mic_Glow there are now angle grinders on the market with anti kick back
As Mic_glow said metal can grab your disc too, it happend to me and the disc won't stop! it will shatter and you can lose eyes.
I use an angle grinder at work with a saw blade in it every single day, and it is very dagerous! I belive the one i am using has a 125 mm or somehting and is about 1300 wats, it can still chop your fingers off in a split of a second but is weak enough that if the blade gets stuck in the wood i can hold it even with one hand.
I have not hours but day with the angle grinder in my hand, i am also a ocasional welder and i know what to expect when i cut something. I know how the blade will react. I personaly know 3 people who had an accident with an angle grinder with a saw blade attached. And all of them were beginers! One of them was pretty bad, he was close to lose his arm. A saw blade mounted on an angle grinder is NO JOKE! No matter how many explinations someone could give you about how to use them is still a matter of feel, feeling what you're doing...
Even with experience, if you want to be safe. Don't ever mount an saw blade on an angle grinder. Where i work angle grinder and saw blade is the main tool we use, we build roofs, everyone use them. And even if i tried to tell them and i did! That this option should be removed! and we should use a skill saw. They still use it. And therefore i have to use it. If you still want to use this method, here are few tips. Secure what your cutting, so it won't bend or flex. I prefere to always cut from my side towards forward, some dudes cut oposite and this is how you blade has the tendency to cath in wood. Cut slow, keep the blade straight in the cut and always use an angle grinder wich you can hold easily with one palm of your hands, the slimer the better! Just don't rush. Do not hold on to the grinder with all your strenght. Just hold it firm once it catches in wood and you hold it there till the blade get stuck and you get through that feeling you feel safer cuting with it. Use a saw blade with many teeth, this is best even if it cuts slower, and don't abuse overused blades, when it stats to smoke the wood is a sign it needs to be resharpen or replaced. AND ALWAYS! have the guard on! Is ok to remove it when you use metal disc if you know what you're doing but never ever cut wood with a saw blade without a guard.
I was a log carpenter for many years. We called that handy little device the "Wheel of Death". Nobody got hurt with one, but we were used to doing copes with chain saws while standing on icy logs.
I call normal cutting disks "Death Wheels", these things are in a league of their own
@@mrcaboosevg6089 Murder wheels then...
@@GideonWallace I am now naming all of mine Murder Wheels. Thank you
I got some good advice from my grandpa before my first wilderness trip into northern Minnesota. He said “think hard about how you are going to swing your axe. Especially when you are a 4 day paddle out of trouble”.
As a long term professional metal worker (30+ years) that has used all manner of power tools and angle grinders of all sizes from 3.5" to 9" hundreds if not thousands of times and as a competent DIY woodworker of some 15+ years using hand and power tools, including chainsaws and table saws, I can honestly say that this tool is one to avoid, and I thought exactly that the first time I saw one. I'm no "super safety" nay sayer freak, but there's just no way I'd ever buy or use one. The kickback produced by a sanding disk can be a eye widening and ring tightening experience at the best of times, even for the highly practiced, but those are paper backed which tear and give somewhat, making it not such a major issue if you're using the grinder in the correct manner. With a hard, rigid metal disk such as that, spinning at 11500rpm and with the uneven and sharpened nature to the edge of it, there is no way you will hold onto it when it bites and it WILL bite some day, most likely when you're least expecting it. I was horrified that such a tool could be passed through even the most slack of safety regulations and be allowed onto the market in the first place. If you have ever bought or been given one of these meat shredders, I suggest you do yourself and the rest of your fellow workers a huge favour and destroy it, irreparably. Stick it in a vice and bend it in half with a hammer or something. The most ridiculously dangerous and stupid tool idea I've ever seen. And being marketed mostly at the casual home enthusiast is just mind boggling to me.
Even those shredding sanding discs can hurt real bad when they smack into you and that is more like a piece of hard cardboard.
I have never had any problems with sanding disks but there is reason handheld belt sanders have two handles, especially under 60 grit.
I find with my Dremel 10K to 15K is the sweet spot but they use very fine teeth.
Jonny A.
May be this cutting tool is built and recommended by "Phizer" and this is why there is no safety instructions!
@@rok1475 sounds great, until it jams...
While I agree with part of this comment because of my own freak accident with a 4.5in cut off wheel, I'd say it's perfectly safe with a flap wheel because it has no real bite when using on metal surfaces for weld prep
Your comment that a person does not know what they do not know is so true. Thanks for telling us what you know.
I hope you do achieve a full recovery.
Socrates made that quote.
"“I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing.”
Look up Dunning Krueger.
Interesting take on this.
This gave me chills. I am a retired Plastic surgeon and over the years have had to deal with many DIY disasters. I now do a lot of woodworking and have used this type of disc for carving wood. I always use industrial gloves and grip and dip when carving. What struck me about this video was the analogy of tripping whilst walking. I do that too! I have been lucky and that is what gives me the chills. Just thinking of what could have happened. This is an excellent video. Now I have to look up what you mean by quadrants. Never heard of that before. Again, thank you for an excellent video.
not going to throw that demon blade away?
It's because of people like you that I still have all my fingers complete after starting woodworking as a hobby. Thank you, dear Stumpy Nubs!
The kickback from a chainsaw is terrifying enough where you have a pretty large fulcrum to offset the force and deal with it safely. Having that short of a grip on a blade like that is just asking for trouble.
it's also spinning at like 10 thousand RPM (166 per second), on a 4" disk that's 120mph on the business end of things
@@0x73V14 most angle grinders can go up to 32k rpm, (I have one that goes up to 60k) only use mine for sanding and grinding metal's or buffing out stuff, no cutting here.
also, chainsaws have that nice little handle that literally stops the blade when it is kicked back in your direction
Chainsaws are also more... involved? scary? high-maintenence? than an angle grinder.
I find myself respecting my chainsaw more than my grinder, even though I am aware both could send me to the hospital!
@@cyllxx9112 Also don't forget that some cut protection equipment won't even work properly with an angle grinder. cut protection pants for instance are meant to lock up a chainsaw by letting the teeth ripping out some long fibres. That works very well with a chainsaw, but won't stop an angle grinder.
I first saw these blades a few years ago, and my first thought was "aw hell no". I've managed to hurt myself twice with a grinder, once with a metal cutting disc (that did a top job of slicing through a work glove and the back of my finger when it kicked back), and once with a wood cutting disc (basically a circular saw blade that did its very best to take the end of my finger off because I put the guard in the wrong place). Thankfully neither was life changing (were trouser changing though) but its proof that no matter how much you think you've got it all under control, sometimes, you don't.
Hey never use gloves with angle grinders or Andy spinning tool for that fact it will catch the tool sometimes and suck your arm in and mess it up if your lucky it will just peel your skin. gloves will do nothing against them gloves are more for hand tools or belt sanders
ditto - i've seen a grinder blade explode and hit my supervisors chest
Trouser changing! Haah! You got that right, for sure :/ SO scary.
There are 2 types of angle grinder users: those who admit they have been bit by their tool and liars.
@@jasonscroger5065 Years ago I saw a medical/accident programme on TV. Someone had been using an angle grinder with a nine inch disc to cut up an old tubular steel bed frame. The disc shattered and lacerated his abdomen. The programme had interviews with the ambulance crew who picked him up and the surgeon who treated him.
Apparently the lacerations were so bad that his intestine had to be held in place to move him. The surgeon a former army doctor said the only similar injury he had seen before was from an anti- personnel mine.
It has chainsaw teeth, therefore must be treated like a chainsaw. They have a different set of rules and without the proper equipment and guards it can't be handled safely. Angle grinders do not have the same set of safety features that chainsaws have such as kick brakes or hand guards. Inappropriate warnings and lack of accessories enabling it's safe use is reason enough to ban it. The manufacturer is responsible for understanding their products compatibility.
I worry about the number of grinders which don't have momentary switches and stay on when you lose your grip.
Also worth noting that, despite having chainsaw teeth, safety gear designed for chainsaws will do nothing to protect you from these attachments.
@@superchroma I just hope that if I ever work with em I remember to not go for cheap, cuz you ain't gonna catch me putting my life on a 5 dollar safety device that came out of a toy car.
Seems like it's way more dangerous than a chainsaw...
You know a lot of chainsaws floating around don’t have chain breaks. I hardly use mine since my clutch is properly adjusted. Only if I’m climbing or walking with the saw running. But it’s safer in either situation to power down the saw. I run a ported 066 for felling big Doug fir and milling and a 362 for bucking and firewood purposes.
As to the tool, I feel this is a case of a guy getting bit who was overconfident. And generally the operator in these situations blames the equipment. “If I can’t use this safely no one can!” I’ll make sure to order some before they are banned even though I don’t have any use for them currently. Will add it to the box of lawn darts I have.
I appreciate that you show that the tool is unplugged during your talk by having the end of the cord sticking out of the table. I'm sorry to hear about your injury and glad to have forewarning on this type of blade in particular.
My first thought upon seeing one of those blades years ago was "what kind of madman dreamed that up?"
Same for me, my exact thought: woodworkers and their tools are insane, i'm glad i am a metal man.
I own some woodworking tools and i am always on my tippie toes using them, just thinking about an accident with a woodworking tool makes me cringe and i have had lots of oopsy's in metal work
@@robber576 Interesting, that's new to me. Is it because of the smaller teeth on metal blades create less kickback and stock-grabbing? I always found (as a newbie) that metal cutting/drilling is trickier (tougher to start, more clamping).
I have more experience in woodworking (still a weekend/6th floor balcony guy), but I've cut a few pipes with a hacksaw and drilled some metal. The grip was always an issue, the blade/bit skipping around until the bite was there, and the drilling bits tended to have trouble catching (might be old...) and then tended to get stuck (or try to turn the drill around). I guess I'm not quite set up for metal work, but do you have any tips to make it a safer experience that woodworking?
Its the sharpness and speed of wood tools that make them so dangerous imo, for metal: use a center punch to make a dimple and dont use spiral drills in thin sheet metal but use a hole saw in thin sheet.
If the cutting tip of the drill is through the sheet before the side spiral guides are in the sheet your drill will get stuck, use a hole saw.
@@robber576 I knew I had to invest in better hole saws ;)
It’s really something out of a horror movie.
I can picture the meeting " I KNOW - let's take the most dangerous part of a chain saw, double the RPM and bring it two feet closer to the operator - we'll make millions!!
AND ! HAVE ! TO ! PAY ! OUT ! IN ! LAWSUITS !! EQUALS !! BANKRUPTCY !! TO !! THE !! HILT !!!
I've been a carpenter for 42 years already. I've run just about any electric tool you can think of, sometimes in precarious situations. But these are where I draw the line. They can get ahead of you way too fast, and there is no turning back at that point. There are other tools to accomplish whatever these do, and the little bit of extra time is well spent when you consider the possible alternatives.
Which begs the question of gross danger inherent to the operation of the tool itself, which ought to be justification for banning it's sale.
I am so happy to hear you actually tout a personal responsibility story that actually also involves negligence on the part of manufacturers and poor marketing. Yes you are responsible for you... but manufacturers are responsible for properly warning you. People look at the lady that got burned by hot coffee and sued Mc Donalds as a joke.. but Mc Donalds had over 200 complaints of severe burns due to the exact same problem.. the woman that sued had to have skin grafted back onto her burned areas. The difference with this is that angle-grinders are inherently dangerous so manufacturers can get away with just blaming inexperience or improper use.
So she wasn't negligent in putting it between her legs while driving? I'm sure a business that serves millions of people a day has thousands of complaints on hundreds of things.
It isn't on anyone to warn you not to be reckless, it is your sole responsibility to factor the decisions you make with ricks involved.
@@joshuawood1436 not really? Does every cup of coffee and or tea come with a warning "may cause third degree burns" on it? No, nowadays they get away with "caution: hot".
The whole story was basically the fact that Mc Donalds didn't want to invest in a better coffee cup because of costs despite hundreds of complaints of severe burns being reported to them. They still serve many hot beverages at or above 80 c but now their cups are borderline bullet-proof. They figured that it would be cheaper and easier to ignore lawsuits because they believed juries would see as you do and think "they were being reckless, not our problem" but if you have hundreds of cases of severe second and third degree burns happening, it stops being isolated incidents and becomes a pattern they refused to redress. That is why they awarded her $200k, which was downgraded to $160k because she was, after all, partly to blame. And then $3 million in punitive for callous behavior. They sent the message it would be cheaper to make a better cup and or keep it at a lower temperature than to fight these law-suits. Her and Mc Donalds ended up settling on a figure outside of court to prevent appeals. If she was the only person to ever get these burns I would agree with you... but she wasn't, she was just one in a chain of people but she decided to do something about it. Either that or she couldn't afford the medical bills and had little choice.
@@adam346 That's a whole mass of words to say, "She should have exercised common sense, and Darwin award earned".
If you wish to prop up the least, and the dullest of society for a darker future, good job, little buddy.
@@joshuawood1436 do you love the idea of corporations having no responsibility or do you just prefer that people die or get grievously wounded for their negligence?
@@adam346 I like that people have the power, not Government who pretends to be protecting us from ourselves.
I prefer people take personal accountability for themselves, and safety. If someone is dumb enough, foolish enough, or ignorant enough to endanger themselves that is not an issue for the Federal Government to involve themselves in.
Warning labels, and legal jargon being on everything we consume and purchase, with regulators deciding for US what we can and can not purchase or possess ensures no ones safety, and leads to the deaths of millions long term.
Do you prefer a loss of safety, freedom and the death of millions long term?
I wanted to use this cutter today for a small job, but went with multi tool saw. Way safer. And now I saw your video and after considering that I had this way of thinking several times now, to go with different tool, I will stand up after writing this comment, go to my workshop and throw the saw into bin for scrap metal.
Not safe for humans to use but that chainsaw disc is something that would be very practical for a robot (like a large 6-axis CNC with XY movable base). It can grip it more tightly and always angle it well to minimize the grip forces.
@Bill the Welding Sloth Well... You can get your arm put back on but it's not as easy as plugging in a new one haha.
@@adamrak7560 Have you seen the old robot horror movie? This is how they kill us all. Don't do it.
A multi tool is the best tool you didn't think you needed until you bought one. I've used mine for cutting an old gate latch flush to the wall, trimming uPVC fascia board whilst in place and goodness knows what else. It's brilliant.
any multitool = jack of all trades, master of none.
use the correct, specialised tool for the task.
I've been doing woodwork for close to 50 years. That has got to be the most dangerous things I've ever seen marketed to the common homeowner/DIY person. Great video, all of yours are!
I am an idiot who doesn't know anything and I totally agree with you
I think some guys may be able to handle those crazy things but it is not worth the risk
Thank you, James.
Just seeing this, four days before the end of the year...and I can say without reservation that this is the most important YT video I've seen this year. I'm sorry to learn about your injury, and of many of my fellow commenters injuries. I bought one of these tools this past summer to assist in my new chansaw carving hobby. Seemed like a great tool, but there were a few times where it snarled at me. Luckily, the one kickback was moderate and didn't get that close to my body. Well, maybe not luckily; if I hadn't seen this video, I could still have conviced myself, "I got this."
At the time, just thought I needed to gain some more experience. Well, the only additional experience I will have with this tool is to bury it or throw it off a bridge, so than neither I nor anyone else can use it again. I'll take the extra time to remove the wood, in ways that I have maximum control.
Great channel. Be well.
In my experience, the most dangerous "tool" is frustration. Perhaps haste or laziness? Call it a three-way tie.
That said, that tool looks insane. A very rapidly spinning disc with an aggressive-toothed chain wrapped around it? What moron thought that was a good idea?
-
The omni-directional kicking is something I learned about first with a floor buffer, risking only dents in walls.
I will never use my chainsaw carving disc again. Scary stuff. Great vid.
@@ME-jc7xi took the words right out of my mouth.
@@ME-jc7xi well where to start lol.
@M E - I used to be like you. In fact, I know a lot of guys who used to be like you. Including master woodworkers with decades of experience who thought "only dumb people get hurt" right up until it was them sitting in the emergency room, holding a baggie of fingers wondering what happened... What happened is they were human. And every human stubs his toe once in a while. That's why smart people take reasonable steps to mitigate the risk of catastrophic consequences when he inevitably proves that he is human. Those steps include using blade guards and splitters and push sticks and safety glasses, and most importantly- using the RIGHT tool for the job. THIS is not the right tool because its risk is not worth the reward when there are other tools that can do the same job, and will exact a far smaller price when you do "stub your toe."...... But I get it. You're different. You've never stubbed your toe. You've never accidently ran a stop sign or forgot to check your blind spot either, because you would never make a mistake with such a deadly piece of equipment, would you?
@@StumpyNubs yeah this isn't a common sense kind of thing ya knuckleheads. If you're comparing this tool to drowning in a 5 gallon bucket, that just shows how dense you are. Good luck with that! Make sure you report back after you've used this blade for a while.
@@ME-jc7xi what's wrong with people is they don't understand health and safety is there for a reason. People like you in fact.
Rewlly can't understand why you lot get triggered by a simple warning. Yes most times the risk is obvious but not always qnd not to everybody.
Personally I'd be happier if my taxes weren't wasted by people that ignore safety messages/rules. Imagine all the things we could improve with that cash!
I used to do a lot wood sculpting and thought this tool was the answers to most of my problems like scorching, and clogging. Yes it removes a lot of wood very quickly. To start with it looks dangerous and I had reservations about buying it. When I put it on my grinder the centrifugal torque inertia it produced because of the extra revolving weight alone should have told me there was a problem. It cost me 11 weeks of work ( unpaid ) and the loss of 2 fingers ( it went in side ways, not straight across ) .... You can still buy them, the blades, not the fingers .... and I believe there is a 9 inch version as well....
when did this happen?
@@DustinBodenVEVO 7th July 20 19 9: 47. AM Arrived in A & E about 11 AM. Had already bleed through a bath towel. Initial assessment and clean up straight away, full surgery 3 days after... These have been available in Australia in various forms for about 3 years. Oddly enough none of the reputable wood working stores stocked them but Bunnings and Miter 10 had loads of them.
I had been using for about 2 hours before it happened and it was very efficient at doing what I wanted it to do. However the price was very high....
PS when I was an apprentice back in the 70's we had a 16inch angel grinder. Now that was scary. My happiest day at work was when the foreman came back from shopping and said they no longer stocked 16 inch grinder discs, so we won't be able to use it again.
That's just horrible, losing the ability to use your hands properly is one of the worst things that can happen to a person especially if it's how you make a living. When an injury like that happens you never forget that day and what happened.
@@aussietruckphotosandmodels8510 I'm so sorry :(((
There are much safer carving discs . There are dangerous and safe ones .
I saw your video, when you got hurt.
Immediately spread the word, not even once, to use this device. At almost the same time, I took care as an anesthesiologist to a experienced carpenter here in Mexico. He also was using the same dangerous tool ! The chain broke, and got him in the face and part of the neck ! Thank you for recalling this issue. To everyone; KEEP OFF THIS TOOL !! Hope your hand gets better
I thought that was a beginner lesson. But my father was a steel fabricator and welder and caprtener. So i grew up using those types of tools, and have taught my own son how to safely use them safely as well. Have i injured myself with one ? Yes. Did i learn from it? Also yes. And that was mostly because i was tired and not paying attention. Which in my opinion is one of the foremost causes of spinning tool injuries. I (thankfully have gotten away from major injuries, and only had minor ones because of my quick reaction due to experience) still not a tool to mess with if you're inexperienced.
Right after your injury I dug mine out of a drawer, put it in a vice, and whacked it with a hammer.
I only used it a few times. I never liked using it. Now, I don't have the option.
Donate the remains to your local blacksmith. There's some good, hardenable steel in that they'll appreciate.
@@Bri-bn5kt Oooh! Kitchen Knife!
That is a perfect action. Prevents any temptation to use it 'just this once' and keeps it as a warning to have safety at heart of all potentially dangerous tool use and stops others finding and using it.
Bought my first house (40+ years ago) There was a motor with a grinding wheel attached. And the grinding wheel had been broken and epoxied back together. I took a hammer to that the day we were moving in, so no one would be tempted to use it. And the grinding wheel broke... not at the epoxy line, but a different place. Still no regrets for whacking it, no guard at all.
I find angle grinders to be one of the scariest tools when using them with their intended cut off disks. The first time I saw the chainsaw wheel, I almost had a heart attack, even before seeing your (or anyone else's) injury from one. I had cold sweats from the mental imagery of the damage these things could potentially do.
I mean the angle grinder and the chainsaw have got to be among of the most dangerous tools one could use (I own both). Combining them is a nightmare from hell.
Thank you again for being humble enough to share your experience James. I'm sure you've saved countless people from injury.
Angle grinders are indeed one of the most dangerous power tools anywhere. His comment about how the standard grinding disk may have been more forgiving is a tad misleading. Sure it would not have kicked itself out of his hands, but I've seen that same slip up cause a wheel or cuting disk to explode. I only had to pick some small fragments from my arm to learn it's never too hot for full leather PPE.
@@professorvaudevillain exactly!
I also have the fear that somehow something will startle me, and I drop it on my foot..... Don't know why that is, but as a result I keep a death grip on it when I'm using it.
Booooo!!
I saw the other video you did on these cutters and because of that vid you likely saved my father from an injury. He was carving an old tree stump into a bird house and had one of these in his cart. Luckily I saw your video and remembered how dangerous they looked and told him not to use it. He ended up with a new multitool and did the job that way.
Just wanted to say thanks.
Stumpy, thanks for sharing. My friend lost his thumb using this dangerous chain grinder! Sadly it happened in another country and he had no recourse but to live with the pain. Stay well my friend!
The first time I saw this disk at a store, I said "damn, that's the finger remover 5000" to a buddy I was with. He ended up buying the damn thing another day, used it the same day and got rewarded with 2 fingers mangled so badly that nothing could be done. He definitely knows how to properly use a grinder, it's not like it was his first time using one. The tool is really just too aggressive, and you don't have nearly as much control over a grinder as you'd like to think that you do. Like you said, just one very unexpected jerk in am unexpected direction is all it takes.
Lol did you remind him of your comment? Or is it still too soon?
@@jamesbizs I reminded him about it as soon as I talked to him lol.
Well OK, he was unwise to buy it. But a jerk? 🥴
@@johnriggs4929 lol
just want to let you know that I bought one of these shortly before your injury to carve out the old moulding of an arched top front door James. I would have been working with it above my head. You may have saved me from a potential injury and I still think in horror about what could have happened.
James, I would have been working with this over my head had me rolling on the floor. I think stumpy saved your life dude. But I have to ask, what the hell.. Look I don't think table saws and chop saws and Jack hammers and even oxysettling torches are all that dangerous.. But that tool? that tools should not have exist! The idea of someone working overhead with that is gonna give me night terrors. You do know that an angle grinder is 1100 RPM, right?
@@josephdestaubin7426 I think you left out a "0"
Over your head?
You're insane. I'm not overly experienced with tools, but the first time I saw one is these I said "eff that".
Smart decision. Just throw it away. Any job it can do is not worth your fingers.
There are safer grinder carving discs you can get!
I saw one of these blades in the store while buying new steel-cutting disks, the pure glance of it made me feel uncomfortable and started to make me imagine what damage these things could deal. I'm glad to see this video as it fulfills my expectations that these are dangerous tools, I don't want to imagine how that accident must have felt like and I'm glad to hear that you've recovered well and use your time and range to warn potential users. Stay safe!
I'm sorry you've gone through this. Thank you for sharing your experiences. I've never even thought about these tools, but now that I've seen this video, I will be showing it to everyone.
Quote of the day: "overly aggressive, irresponsibly marketed finger shredder." From someone who knows, not an imaginary, comment board "expert".
Its called tact when you are a true professional. I learned it in the military so his training and my training are pretty close.
Knowledge is power, not buzz words. No pun intended.
To market it to DIY's that have no clue about angle grinders, nor the incredible danger of a 12,000rpm chain saw is incredibly irresponsible. The tool is useful as hell though, but hazardous overkill for almost all normal cutting applications.
@@carlodave9 A true DIY'r understands each step before doing it. Unfortunately, often information is hidden such as with this item.
A friend bought one for me to do some work for him. After 30 seconds it was shut off and filed in the circular file. Dangerous is not the word for this tool, DEADLY is more accurate. I hate this tool with a passion. ( not the side grinder but the chain blade)
Same here 30 sec was enough for me to dump it in the garbage.
@@ME-jc7xi are you describing yourself? When the time comes that I’m not afraid of a tool, it gets put down or unplugged. Danger averted. Is the warning label on hair dryers not to be used in the shower meant for you?
@@ME-jc7xi there wasn’t any contradiction. I said when I no longer fear a tool I’ll put it down. I used the chain saw blade for 30 seconds and saw the potential hurt it could cause and chucked it in the garbage. I was afraid of that tool so I unplugged it and put it down. Okay?
@@ME-jc7xi i was an industrial First aid attendant in the lumber industry and member of the safety committee for over thirty years, and I learned that arrogance also causes accidents . i also thought this tool could be useful for a job , bought one, then watched Stumpy's safety video... it remains sealed in the package to this day. .. safe. thanks again Stumpy.
@@ME-jc7xi nobody accidentally gets hurt on a 5 gallon bucket. Lots of people accidentally get hurt with this tool. Why are you making this comparison? Do you not realize the obvious?
Thanks for posting this and sharing your story. You've probably helped save thousands from a similar or worse fate.
I just found your videos recently but you seem like an outstanding person, sir. I hope more people find your channel, stay informed and especially hope you keep improving in your therapy!
The way you explain things so clearly is truly wonderful. You speak in such a respectful informative manner. Even when it’s not a tool I plan to use, I end up watching the entire video and learning something I had no idea about. Thank you so much! Your channel is amazing.
I'm NOT a work worker; I'm an part time artist who thought these would be super badass for sculpting. I have two grinders...so naturally I bought two "sizes" of these blades and went to work with them in a most haphazard way. According to you, I was doing virtually everything I possibly could to chop off my fingers.
I KNEW they were sketchy...I'm not blind. It's a freaking CHAINSAW on your GRINDER for Chrissakes! I'm so glad and grateful for this video. I'll be tossing those blades from my shop immediately. Thank you!
There are much safer wood cutting discs . That are easier for carving
Large grit flap discs will remove lots of wood without risking near the same injury that this thing makes possible.
@@stuckgrenadepin.225 that's a good point. I have a 3 tooth one that looks like a standard skilsaw one but smaller.
The worst parts there are better carving disks and cutting disks
Just discovered your channel a couple of days ago. Not really much of a wood worker, but I find your videos very informative, and your delivery and pace of information easy to digest. This one is absolutely stellar. I wouldn't be surprised if it helps prevent multiple injuries. Well done!
You have a brilliant way with words. Calm, concise, and professional. I'd have loved to have you as a woodshop teacher.
I've been eyeing this blade in the box of grinder discs I inherited from my father in law, really tempted to bolt it on and play with some sculpting. Something told me it just wasn't a good idea. Thank you so much for posting this. Instead of just throwing it away, maybe I'll use the steel for a little welding practice.
I ordered one of these from Amazon. When it arrived, I took a good look at it, and it's never come out of it's packaging. This thing is something out of a horror movie.
When the zombies come, you'll be ready.
Is it too late to return it to Amazon?
Writing your decision into a product review might help people.
@@bobd5119 it would be too late for a return, but you are right, a review would be useful for others on the fence about it for sure.
@@frenchyroastify after I eventually cut my hand off with it, I could attach the grinder to my arm just like Ash Williams in Army of Darkness 😂
Have you seen the big ones made to attach to weed trimmers? Perfect for a serial killer or someone with a death wish.
this is possibly the most clearly articulated video on youtube, the lessons on risk could be applied to any field.
I work in a tool shop at times. Today I had a customer ask about one of these horrors. I told him about your injury and laughed when he said that sort of thing happens with inexperience. 20 years ago I had a very close call with a toothed disk in my grinder and since then have no interest in using one again.
Most of the woodworkers I know who lost fingers were very experienced at the time.
As a machinist and metal fabricator for over twenty five years I've worked a lot with 4-1/2" and 7" angle grinders with grinding and cut-off blades but this chainsaw cutter just scars me, I seen one a while back and thought it might come in handy in certain situations but imagining what damage it could do stopped me from getting one and now after seeing this video I see that was a wise decision on my part not that I always make the most wise decisions.
Yep same here.
Anyone who ever had a serious chainsaw kickback AND walked away would see this tool as what it is: more dangerous than useful.
@@rafaelwoitzuck3186 Yep!
Same thing. Angle grinders are my least favorite tool, seeing this chainsaw disk sends shivers down my spine.
I had millions of kickbacks with chainsaws never ever cut myself. But with angle grinders I have. I'm far more afraid by grinders.
First of your videos I've seen. You'd make a fantastic class instructor. Your delivery is impeccable and you hold attention like a magnet. Keep it up!
Thank you for this video. Let me say that I'm thrilled that you're doing better . I know by your previous videos of your struggles to recover. I too have had dangerous experiences, like you I've come out battered and with serious recovery. issues. But this note is about you and my appreciation for you and the knowledge you pass on to each of us. Sadly for you and your family, that video is a stern warning of WHAT NOT TO DO!
BLESS YOU And may you continue to recover from this horrible "accident"!
Thank you for your work and honest feedback. I am sorry to hear your hand is still hurting. God bless you.
As a DIYer who often reaches to the edge of his abilities, I thank you for this video. A new Sub just for this one.
I bought one of these things a couple of years ago and have yet to put it on my angle grinder (a combination of a lack of inspiration and what turns out to be a very healthy dose of paranoia). Given the number of near misses I've had with a standard angle grinder, I think I'll be throwing mine away. Thanks for sharing.
I hate to recommend damaging tools or wasting resources, but perhaps before throwing it away, you can secure the disc in a vice and hit it with a hammer a few times to bend it over, even just slightly. Just incase someone was to find a new undamaged cutting disc in the rubbish and think "hey look what I scored for free !".
I am exactly the guy that would get one of these things and use it without being remotely qualified to do so. I actually got up went to my toolbox to assure I didn’t stupidly buy one and just haven’t used it yet. Glad to see I didn’t have one so I wouldn’t have been out whatever money I’d spent on it because it would’ve gone immediately into the garbage. So I’m glad I wasn’t the only one with a similar thought as you. Oh and excellent video and message, I’m subscribing.
@@KiwiCatherineJemma They still have a purpose, pretty sure this would be awesome as a battlebots attachment. Or it might be safe enough with a variable speed grinder (thanks to cheap AC dimmers you can power grinders at variable speeds).
Its kind of like chainsaws, I absolutely hate modern day consumer chains, they are nowhere near aggressive enough unless you file the limiters down. You end up having to use huge cumbersome 50+cc chainsaws instead of more manageable smaller saws with better chains. I think biggest thing is doing only direct straight cuts and giving it a deathgrip like you would cutting unknown wood (often nails or I've even hit a few metal fence posts inside the tree as it grew around it) and heavy leather gloves. Sure some people think the old style sawblades are dangerous, but after hours and hours of cutting and someone proficient with the tool they will see the benefit of more aggressive blades. I think if these just ran slower they would have less rotational momentum to kick and less aggressive kicks, but then you might be back to basically standard cutoff blades.
I have had no near misses and this thing is still scary.
@@jakegarrett8109 I would be suspicious of whether a variable speed grinder would help, especially in wood, moving slower makes tools a lot more likely to grab. So the kick back might be slightly less bad, but it will happen a lot more often. I don't like those odds.
As a metalworker who’s experienced the dangers of angle grinders (even with just a sanding pad) over the years these discs are insanely dangerous.
30 years in the trades and yeah it is one of the tools you focus with when using.
Many years ago back in high school my woodworking teacher recommended one of those to me for a larger private project. When I went to the hardware store an employee told me, that while he is allowed to sell them to me, they are terribly unsafe and he deeply discourages their use on an angle grinder.
I didn't buy them and am thankful to that guy to this day.
I'm an oral surgeon now and really appreciate still having all the fingers I was born with.
Thank you. I talked my accident prone, uncareful Dad out of buying this type of product by showing him your original accident video at the time. This updated vid is great.
I shuddered at the sight of this blade before I even watched the video. Having worked in steel ship yards during my career, a 4 inch angle grinder to a steel worker is like a hammer to a carpenter. Even when it's used in it's original purpose, to grind metal with a stone wheel, it is a dangerous tool. I treat it with respect even if it's not plugged in. I can't count the number of coveralls ruined and skin "raspberries" I've had over the years just with a stone wheel. If I had been using this blade, I would be missing several body parts at the very least. The uninitiated don't realize that the 4 inch grinder, with some capable of 10,000 to 11,000 RPM, is the fastest spinning tool in the arsenal of hand tools. Just turning it on can generate hand wrenching torque. [EDIT] not to mention that as the blade wares out, high RPM tends to make things fly apart at the seams. Put a worn out wire brush on a 4" grinder and after a few needle sized darts in the thigh, you get an idea of the flying shrapnel this blade could create, worse than a hand grenade.
i remember a story about someone who used one of those wire brush heads and wasn't wearing thick enough clothes, later got an infection in their leg from a piece of metal buried a few inches deep they hadn't noticed.
@@Elfarcher73 It's hard not to notice when they come at you at a pretty high speed, but after the initial pain I guess you could forget where it hit. The wires are usually full of rust and oils so ... not the most sanitary thing to be embedded under your skin.
@@Elfarcher73 yeah I took a needle in the thigh and didn't even notice until I brushed against it in the shower. Thing was about an inch buried in me. All the vibrations and tension from working hard can make you not notice that little sting. Took one to the chin too, but I felt that one, like a lot lol
Still, if I had the choice between a grenade and high speed wire wheel bits, I'll take the wire wheel bits =D
@@CONCEPTUALMAN no doubt about it!
I've used an angle grinder many times and I am still sometimes caught off-guard by how strong the pulling/pushing force of them are. And I'm the kind of person that always reads even the smallest square inch of instructions and I'm wearing the appropriate safety gear (which was just ear- and eyeprotection for me when working with angle grinders - maybe I should up that in the future). But by the looks of the chainblade alone I can imagine how forcefull the pulls and pushs from this blade would be and I'd never touch that, because the gain-risk ratio just doesn't seem right.
Gain-risk ratio, so true
The first time I saw one of these I thought Hell No! Those things are an accident waiting to happen. And I consider myself fairly experienced at using an angle grinder.
Being experienced might be what gave you enough perspective to know that it’s dangerous.
@@UrbanPanic Could also lead to being part of the problem though. If you feel overconfident in your ability to use the grinder safely you might overlook a few of the dangers for this thing.
Most of the woodworkers I know who are missing a finger didn't do it when they were starting out, they did it when they felt they knew how to use the tool safely and took a shortcut they shouldn't have thinking they could get away with it.
Those chainsaw teeth are meant to be used flat. When they are on a disc like that, the depth gauges can't do their job and the teeth dig in. Redesigning the depth gauges to avoid kick back would reduce the danger significantly.
I'm a big fan of using chainsaw blades on a chainsaw and nothing else.
But that redesign would take money, and then custom tooling to make a specialist chain.
The manufactures of these have zero interest in developing the best and safest product. They want to buy off the shelf parts, stick them together and make maximum profit.
The problem is that depth gauges, even re-designed, will remain angle-dependent. This tool is used at too many angles, including the involuntary ones. The video cutting up the pallet was what I thought the use was when I first saw the disc (basically, cutting like a chainsaw). When I saw the use at an angle (like how James got his injury), I thought it was quite a crazy thing to do.
One option would be specific blades for specific angles. But of course, the cheaper generalist blades, and more dangerous, will be the DIYer blades, where injuries will happen.
Also the teeth seem to be backwards compared to the rotation arrow on the disk so the depth gauges couldn't work anyway.
I've not used chainsaws that much (maybe a couple of hours tops), but I'm experienced enough with various electric/2-stroke power tools to understand that chainsaws are designed the way they are in order to deliberately constrain the range of angles at which the teeth may be applied to the work.
These carving discs chuck that idea right out the window, along with bits of your fingers/hands/whatever if something goes wrong. And if it does, it'll go wrong bloody quick.
Deadset terrible concept.
This is an absolutely fantastic video! Thank you! I’m a total novice and have been thinking about getting an angle grinder and watching videos and this by far is the most informative and best explanation of use , dangers and safety I have come across. I think you’re truly sparing people serious injury. 🙏💥
Thank you. I was looking at these, but now I will steer clear.
I’d like to just simply say that you are so incredibly educational, well spoken and a truly great teacher. You remind me of the teacher in high school that everyone liked and respected because they/you are just that good. We are getting into woodworking and you are my favorite……bourbon moth is the only other person I watch. You’re both different and amazing. Thank you for being YOU and doing it so well. I think we will not own one of these grinder blades 😬
I completely agree: Possibly the best teacher in his area of expertise.
You might also want to check Jonathan Katz-Moses, and maybe John Malecki too
Fisher's Shop is another good one to watch, along with Jay Bates and April Wilkerson.
Check out Guy's Woodshop, Pete Millard, and 3x3 Custom with Tamar - they're all amazing, too.
There is a great Woman Teacher on “See Jane Drill” she is very clear too.
Anyone with a few hours of chainsaw experience and an oz of sense would realize this is just 360* of pure kickback potential, as you stated. Remember folks just because you can doesn't mean you should (this product case in point).
> 360* of pure kickback potential
underrated pun
much more kickback than a chainsaw, because it can go in more directions and because it doesn't have the weight of a chainsaw to slow it down.
Been watching your videos for awhile and have always found them quite helpful. Happened upon this video while looking into chainsaw blades for carving. I really appreciate your sharing your prospective and clearing laying out the danger of these blades. Thanks!
I am just now seeing this video. Thank you so much for sharing your experience and information about this tool. Very insightful. I haven't watched a single video you have made that I didn't learn something new or get a different perspective from.
after having used anglegrinders on metal parts at work i have to say, that if you use a cutting disc and start misaligning the disc during your cut, it can catch on the workpiece either yeeting the workpiece or even breaking the disc and shooting disc parts everywhere. The half circular guard more or less prevents deadly shards flying into your chest but even rebounds can cut you open like nothing.
Yeah the angle grinder is a scary enough tool as it is...
Learned early as a welding apprentice years ago that using the left side of the grinder ends up with it getting thrown to you. With just a grinding disk that was a painful lesson. Can't imagine how awful that lesson would be with that disk.
you might not learn anything form it even if unlucky enough
I've had my grinder accident, luckily with a wire wheel. I'd be dead with this ☹️
@@superchroma me too, nothing like the shock of a wire wheel wrapped up in your jeans a few inches from the family jewels!
Some angle grinders have a feature called kickback control - when it senses kickback (pretty accurately too), it shuts off the motor completely. This probably puts the safety of working with these up a few notches.
Also - there's wood/PVC cutting discs which basically only have 3 special teeth and no chains attached. Companies like Bosch or Wolfcraft market these in Europe.
Even if that kickback detection works perfectly 100% of the time-and that's a big if-it's still extremely dangerous because that heavy blade is still spinning.
these machines have no stopping function so it will use your body in a bad kick.
I got one from a yardsale few years ago. I never used it. After seeing your video about the chainsaw disc, I won't attempt to. Thanks for sharing
Thought about getting one of these recently. I won’t be now! Thank you for this video!
No doubt, i felt the same.
I was looking at buying one at Harbor Freight........... I WON'T BE NOW!!!!
An aggressive sanding disk might do similar jobs at slightly less risk.
Out of interest, what job were you thinking it'd be a good match for?
@@nightcatarts any of the advertised carving and shaping can be done with a sanding or flap wheel. They come with their own dangers but not the same ones. If your are cutting things your are better off using a saw.
I saw one of these on youtube last year and, being someone who has always used chainsaws a lot at work, thought this was just asking for an injury. The way a chainsaw chain works is by having a low enough tension on the bar/chain to allow the bevel on the blade to flex into the timber when it hits a point of resistance, then flick back when the following guide hits the point of resistance. This way at any given time the blade it only pulling a small chip out of the timber on a circular grinding disk you wouldn't be able to have enough slack to allow a chain to operate in the proper way, which means the bevel will dig a larger chunk out of the timber and, being an angle grinder, it will jam and kick.
Knowing how a chainsaw blade works tells us that the person who designed this tool didn't know how one worked and any subsequent companies producing this product have not done the proper research to make sure they are making a safe tool. To me, this is not a case of personal responsibility, but rather it is a faulty tool that is designed to be unsafe. If a tool is brought to the market with an electrical short you do not know about and you get electrocuted from it, that is the manufacturers fault, this is the same concept.
I'm glad you didn't get injured to badly and you can let people know to stay away from it.
With chainsaws you only ever have to deal with two directions of kickback. If the saw gets pulled into the work piece, it's usually not a problem. If the saw wants to eject from the work piece into the direction of the operator, there is a mechanism especially built for that scenario that will brake the chain and disconnect it from the drive train. An angle grinder not only lacks that mechanism, it can eject in various directions, and due to the high RPM has a very high momentum.
@@graealex You are right, but not entirely, kickback is when the chain bites onto something and the engine power overcomes your hands. A lot of people using chainsaws appreciate the blade without regard to the engine. Trees are round, they have 360 degrees of kickback potential, the cutting edge of the blade itself is an elongated semi circle that gives you at least 180 degrees more kickback potential. Now 80% of that area is 'freak accindent' area but the fact is accidents happen and we can work with that through isolation by staying out of the chainsaws trajectory and isolation to keep our mates safe.
This grinder disk has 360 degrees of guarunteed kickback due to it being designed by fuckwits who thought it looked cool. The fact is is attached to a grinder means it has 360 degreesmultiplied by the amount of square feet of workshop area you have plus and electrical hazard if it accidentally cuts is own umbelical cord.
This shit literally makes me angry, it's literally only there for sales, not because it's a good tool or anything else.
@@gags730 No, he just took the concept of the chainsaws cutting edge and implemented it in a way that wouldn't allow it to operate in the way a chainsaws chain is designed to operate. Sissors to a lawn mower is perfectly safe, the sissors just take longer. This is more like welding your yard sissors onto the end of your weed wacker - is it safe? No. I it a good idea? No. Will someone do it anyway? Probably.
@@gags730 Just so you have a picture of where I'm coming from, I'm a sawmill manager and operator, I literally live and breath milling saws, chainsaws, harverstors, moulders, chippers and all the heave machinery we use to cut and saw logs. I'm not talking about a family owned business, we break down millions of dollars a year worth of timber. Know how a chainsaw chain works, if we had one of these discs on a grinder, I would let someone use any other saw we have access to before I let them use this. We have a Canadian saw, a twin edger, a resaw, a 6 knife moulder about 15 chainsaws and like three bench saws I operate all of them and I think this tool is more dangerous that any of them.
You can argue all you want, it won't change my opinion, the tool is unsafe, it's like selling a car without brakes.
and if you try to get them body mangler ad removed youtube will do nothing.
I love this channel. All the information is always technically correct and the emphasis on safety is highly appreciated.
I just bought my first angle grinder yesterday, and have just taken up wood-splitting last year. Thank you for your video so that I do not take the short-cut and try to combine the 2.
I love your speaking voice. You are so measured, deliberate, informative and calming. You really could expand into audiobooks or similar. So relaxing! Also, cool woodworking stuff.
The absence of wallpaper music is a blessing, too.
Personally I think moving the handle would change the grip to something the average person isn't used to and create other problems
I agree.
Great info. Ty for sharing your personal experience.
What safer tool would you recomend for carving wood?
I like your videos.
I just recently stumbled upon them, i´m nowhere near as crafty or doing any handyman work or woodwork, but just watching a few of your videos are so nice and educational over a craft i normally don´t perform myself, but knowing about some things here and there when i might find myself in a situation, makes me feel better.
Everyone finds themself one day or another where they have to do some little handy work.
I cannot for one second ever see a valid use for this blade where it isn't beaten out by something safer and more controllable. Its just horrifying, not least because the depth of cut limiters on the chain are bent out of the way by wrapping it around a disc.
It's going to be even scarier once it's been blunted slightly...
Log house builders use this tool for the groove under the log quite often. But it's usually attached at the end of a drill-like machinery instead of an angle-grinder so your hands are much farther away from the blade. It's still very risky but speeds up the groove cutting quite a lot.
Grooving tires for dirt track racing.
I've been in the landscape/tree care line of work my entire life. One of the most important phrases my old boss drilled into me was " A dull chainsaw is much more dangerous than a sharp saw". Pretty sure those words saved my life a few times.
yeah and chainsaws at least have a chain stop in case of a kickback
Chefs says this about knives instead but it is true as long as you are careful. I dull knife takes more force, you have less control, etc. A sharp one glides through.
Exactly. If you're using force to cut, it's dull. And not safe. Pretty much any cutting instrument.
I normally don't watch these kinds of videos but this one is damn good. Its clear, concise, and offers ways that companies should be marketing the tool. Definitely saving this incase one of my more DIY-y friends starts talking about this blade.
Glad I found this. I was thinking about getting one of these disks. Thanks!
I have used grinders for over 40 years. I learned my trade in a steel works, so was taught how to use tools properly, whatever they were, when I was an apprentice. When I saw one of these discs here in the Uk for sale a few years ago, I thought then that they were far to dangerous to use in this manner, i.e. on a grinder.
I don't like using a chainsaw, even though I am super careful when I do, but knowing how a grinder of ANY size can bite you, these discs are just plain stupid as an idea, to even just think of using one gives me the wobbles. I have had the odd kick back over the years (who hasn't) but none of them would have ended in my loosing a hand or possibly my death and I consider myself an expert with a grinder. If I don't think these discs are safe to use, how does a diy'er think they can handle one?
Be as careful as you like, consider yourself as talented as you like, but when these discs kick off on you, GOOD LUCK IN HOSPITAL. It'll only need to bite you the one time.
Don't use one of these discs people, it's not worth the risk or the long term damage, IF you live.
I bought myself a 2-stroke garden multi-tool a while back, one of the attachments is a pole saw.
The chain bar is only about 12" long, tiny little thing and it's way out on the end of the extension pole, but even then I'm very careful when using it because I've heard plenty of stories about what an uncontrolled chainsaw can do to human flesh. I always make sure that there's nobody within range when I fire it up.
The idea of fixing a circular chainsaw blade to my grinder gives me the willies. No thanks, I haven't lost any parts yet and I'd like it to stay that way.
I injured my hand with a cutting disc while cutting metal. The tension in the metal caused the cut gap to close and bite the disc after I reached half way of the cut.I was extremely lucky and the disc only cut the skin between the knuckles of my pinky and ring fingers. Got away with 6 stitches. Those chainsaw blades biting to the wood do basically the same thing.
Very well put!
I was a pipe fitter here in the states for 4 years or so. I got witness a horrendous kick back incident, my foreman pushed the limit with a large angle grinder and payed with his face.
Do you Think ! The ! Kids ! Of ! Tomorrow !! Are ! Going ! To ! Abide ! By ! What ! Your ! CRAP !! STATES !!??
I’ve been using power tools, including chain saws, all of my now lengthy adult life.
Having used chain saws in some of my employment, my first reactions to seeing this device, particularly on a tool without automated safety shut off, were a shudder and thoughts of dismay.
I’m glad a process of regulation of it has begun. I’m glad that someone knowledgeable and respected in the field has so eloquently spoken out on its dangers, and thank you for that.
Exactly mate, I’m an arborist and thought the exact same thing. You need a grinder that’ll shut off and quit spinning the moment either hand leaves it before you’ll even think of an attachment like this
Don't worry, "regulations" will get your chainsaw next....Maybe you don't remember seeing those stupid guards riveted on the tip of your saw's bar?
Dead man's handle is essential...as soon as you let go of it the blade stops ! This feature is not present on an angle grinder.. hence the extreme danger of this tool when fitted with a cutting chain .
@@cs-rj8ru no I’ve never seen a bicycle style chain guard on a chainsaw, I’ve used them professionally for twenty something years and I have a decent collection of old ones. It would make a number of essential chainsaw techniques impossible. But I do believe the modern chainbrake is an essential safety mechanism and I’d never use one without it.
I normally really like your videos and this one is FANTASTIC. Thanks a lot!
Thanks for the heads up
Wow, never seen that wheel before. I used to do chainsaw repairs for a living and the first thing i would do to any saw i was working on was remove the bar and chain, these only went back on as the last step for final tune. The thought of combining a 6 inch grinder with a saw chain is like a shark with a laser! Shake hands with danger!
The designer(s) took the most dangerous part of a chainsaw and made their entire tool from it. It has 360 degrees of bar tip so it can kill you in 4 directions instead of one.
That takes grapefruit nuts.
Grapefruit nuts and pea sized brains! 🤣🤣
That was a perfectly executed sponsor at the end. You're probably the first youtuber who has ever interested me on a sponsorship before, good job.
I bought an angle grinder and this very attachment but haven't used it yet. THANK YOU for this video, glad I watched it first. I just happened upon it, I wasn't looking for an angle grinder safety video.