Stumpy Nubs is consistently the most interesting and informative channel I have yet found. While others concentrate on showing builds in superb workshops, Stumpy Nubs informs you about the tools, materials, techniques and history of woodworking. Bravo, James Hamilton!
Project Farm just did a deck screw compare. He liked the GRK and Spax. He tested for deck related stuff so SN’s tests here are valid. The big differences are the unthreaded shank and bugle head. That is your shear holding force and tension capacity. It’s all about cross section and stress risers (snaps off at notches vs smooth face). I will pay extra for screws that don’t snap. Hate those zinc fasteners.
I tried to use one of the zinc screws to fix a kids broom that was some kind of hardwood. The head snapped off and left the shaft inside. I still can't decide if it was better that way or not since it is holding fine. Terrible screws.
I bought those zinc plated screws once before. That was the first and last time. Snapped them with a screwdriver. They couldn't even hold up to muscle power. Pathetic
@BB you can use any fastener for any application if you can design it in a way that overcomes the limitations of the fasteners. SR screws are thin and the heads aren’t as strong. Pilot hole and countersink. Use a tighter fastener pitch (more per foot). If in place where they might get damp, seal them with something.
@@ajaehall7695 I have done the same. Just think of what our parents and grandparents had to deal with. Weak screws, manual drivers, and only slotted tops.
I used dry wall screws to fasten shelf brackets through drywall into timber battens through a vapour barrier in my workshop which holds containers for thousands of screws, nuts and bolts. For 14 years no problem until one day while reaching for a container they collapsed and avalanched to the floor with me in shock after jumping back in amazement. The cause was where the screws had penetrate vapour barrier they had over time rusted through and the last straw broke the camel’s back. Top shelf collapsed onto the next and so on. Lesson learned!!
This is why drywall screws are meant for drywall and not anything structural. Stumpy missed the point which is why screws have different designs, they are meant for different applications. He's comparing apples to avocados.
@@stevenvachon9745 He also said several times not to use them for anything structural. I think his point was that they can be used for more than drywall, which I agree with, although he could have been a bit clearer about that at the end.
Well you got 14 years out of them which is good. But even if you used a coated deck screw, multipurpose construction screw, or a structural screw, eventually you would have had s similar result (Given a lot longer than 14 years). Cause those are only corrosion resistant and not corrosion proof. You should have gone with stainless steel screws, they'll last you damn near forever. Kinda pricey though.
@@mountainbikerdave it never entered my head at the time and not really heavily loaded. I was there 5 hours filtering through literally thousands of different size screws and nails and putting them back into containers. My exit was completely closed off 😄 my plan is to build shallow draws with multiple divisions. Floor standing of course.
@@johngrant5749 you can do wall mounted or ceiling/rafter mounted as well, just make sure to pick up the right hardware. Which it might seem that you had plenty of experience with picking up hardware LOL.
It's simply unbelievable how excellent the quality of your content is on this channel. Fantastic videos for beginners like myself and I'm sure old timers get something out of it also. Well done.
I used drywall screws for years. Then I discovered the construction/deck screws and never looked back. They don't rust, they aren't phillips head, they seat better, and they don't cost that much more. I always have a box of each size from 1-1/4" through 3" on my fastener shelf.
I quit drywall screws mainly because they only come in phillips head, which I've come to hate with the fiery rage of a thousand suns due to the ease of cam out. Not that I'm opinionated or emotional about this issue or anything...
@@mgelliott86 twenty years ago while building a six foot fence we run out of screws. My mate only had dry wall screws in the van we used these to finish the fence. After approximately three years all the dry wall screws rusted through and the fence fell to bits. The rest of the fence was still good.
@@mgelliott86 INDEED! In Canada, we are blessed with Robertson screwheads, and hate the Phillips (which we must use for any foreign design). We even have dual heads, that accept both Robertson and Phillips drivers (giving much less torque though). Now that I'm in Europe, it's all Phillips.... I get Torx whenever I can, but most items bought contain Phillips screws. Even the bolts are evenly split between Phillips and Hex. In Europe, they apparently never go to know a screw head that could stick to the driver until the hex (Allen) came along. I carried over the single bed I used all my childhood. It stayed dormant for a decade, and now my son sleeps on it (with a new mattress...that we also had to buy in Canada, since European beds are a different size). It's a wooden structure with the very same Robertson screws from almost 40 years ago. None have stripped, they simply go in and out. AND THEY HOLD FAST ON THE DRIVER. I still have some Robertson in my random spare screw reserve, and I'm glad I brought my Canadian bits and drivers over so I can use them. To think, the only reason Phillips heads are widely used is because of British swindlers who robbed Robertson as UK license holders. Thus, when Henry Ford wanted his screws as license, Robertson said no, please simply buy them, I've been screwed (pun intended) once with a license, not again. Ford wanted to control the screw production, so he went with the Phillips instead. The rest is history.
@@martinhoude3518, Robertson sucks as well! Sorry Canada. It's better than a Phillips head but that's not that high of a bar. Torx is where everything should be.
From a Structural Analysis Engineer: Insofar as possible, fasteners of any kind (yes, including dowels and tennons) should only be used in SHEAR. Sometimes this requires a bit of design effort, but it will reduce failures. If tension load is unavoidable, use bolts and nuts, and preload them well. This is difficult in wood,.as preload cannot be maintained over time...
I think you should clarify your statement a bit. In general, it's best to avoid putting fasteners directly in shear unless they're designed for that (e.g. pins, dowels, tenons). The shear strengths of fasteners (e.g. bolts, screws, and the like) is less than their tension strengths. For bolts/screws/etc maybe you're saying that it's better to design the assembly itself to rely on a clamped joint instead of one that hangs the part from the fastener? I could be missing something here as it relates to the video though? After all, I just skipped through the video and didn't watch the whole thing in its entirety.
Points well made. A tension load is applied along the length of the fastener. Putting a screw vertically into an overhead joist and hanging a plant from it is putting a tensile load on the screw. All that is holding it in is the screw threads. Pull-through (the head is pulled through the material, e.g., you fasten a piece of foam to a board, and pull- you are.left with an intact screw in the board, and a chunk of foam with a hole in it), pull out (the wood is soft and the threads fail, leaving a stripped hole and an intact, loose fastener-like pulling a nail), and head failure (unlikely in wood working) are the ways you lose joint integrity. Shear is loading the fastener at 90 degrees to it's long axis. Shear strength is approximately 3/4 of tensile strength (for steel). For a wood screw, the shear area is based on the minimum diameter of the screw-at the bottom of the threads, unless there is an unthreaded shank which penetrates into all the wood in the joint- if fastening two boards together, the shank must protrude through the first board somewhat to generate full strength. The good news is that friction (clamping action) and glue spread the load out and relieve the load in the fastener
@@pachinkotronkfollo1075 "tension load" would be a force that is trying to pull the screw out of the hole. A "shear load" is perpendicular - as if it is trying to cut the screw in half at the middle instead of pull it apart. Side note: screws in general use a hardened steel that is more brittle in shear and nails are more maleable making them better for shear loads, if a bolt can't be used. But cross sectional area of the fastener will also be very important for shear loads.
And yet another clarification: If the item is a lightweight rack to hold bandsaw blades, an eye glass rack, a rack for push shoes [over the table saw] and so on, a few screws straight into overhead 2x's will never be a problem.
@TJP 81 I did say "This is difficult in wood,.as preload cannot be maintained over time"... I picked up a model airplane engine--old, hadn't been touched in years. The wooden prop was still on it, and I took the not off by hand. The prop hub (Wood) was truly compressed, and it had been very tight when put away...
A trick my father taught me when I was a teen, half a century ago: - To drastically reduce the torque stress of screwing, rub the screw on soap (maybe mildly wet soap) before using it. So lubricated, the screw will enter the wood easily, but will lose no holding or tensional properties. Especially good trick when using a manual screwdriver.
My late father got a tip from an old Brazilian carpenter/joiner back in the 70s, one that I use to this day - he used saliva on the screw or nail. This would now only lubricate it on the way in, but the surface of the fastener would rust slightly thus making it less likely to pull out (in the case of the nail).
I was taught never to use soap as it will stain the wood, but to run the screw through your hair to add lubrication. Worked well when I still had hair.
I really enjoy your channel. I’ve recently retired from 32 years of teaching and can now reach for my other adventures that have been on the back burner. Your professionalism is greatly appreciated and TRUSTED by me. Attention to detail is a key for success as well as thinking outside the standard box. Thanks for mastering the art of woodworking. You have my highest respect.
Yes sir! I install a lot of cabinets....no substitute for grk....the only downside is the smaller screws being t15 and having to switch to t25 for the longer screws but completely worth it
This was the most comprehensive screw review I have ever seen. I might want to add some advanced experience advice to this. Whenever using screws in a sheer situation, use good quality wood glue on the facing joints. Especially when using sheetrock screws. Sheetrock screws are very brittle and will not hold up to sheer loads. But on the tension, not so bad. The glue makes up the difference. And always predrill the first suffice.
Hi Stanley, I agree. I have used drywall screws a lot, and have found them to be good as long as the sheer forces are minimal. When used in joints with a lot of sheer force, they snap. Likewise if exposed to a lot of vibration.
That is exactly what I was thinking as I watched this video. Almost any screw that doesn't strip out the wood or snap when being driven will work well when loaded in tension (the screw will strip out of the wood before the steel fails in tension). James does a good job of demonstrating which screws are most likely to be installed properly without damaging the screw or the wood fibers in a way that would compromise the joint. But loads due to sheer or bending moments are different story. James' first test showed just how bad all screws are when subjected to bending moments. Of course a properly designed joint should never rely on just the screw to resist sheer or bending moment loads.
@@ay8306 I think screw heads break off upon extraction, not due to tension, but due to torsion: the head wants to turn, but the threaded shank doesn't, so the neck twists apart.
I REALLY like how straight forward and clear your explanations are for ALL your videos, this one was no different! Thanks, I look forward to learning more.
I just bought 30 lbs. of drywall screws at an auction for $10. Glad the tests show they are efficient, cause it's going to be a long, long time before they're gone.
Drywall screws rust very quickly. Always keep that in mind. Never for exterior usage. For inside projects that carry limited load they work great. Ive used them for decades.
I've noticed a significant drop in the quality control of so called "premium" screws in general over the past 7 years, they are failing more and more, the heads snap off even in predrilled holes before the head even touches the wood. And every 1 out of 20 in a pack of 3" screws come bent.
They are mostly cheap steel Chinese screws. I am a fan of drywall screws. I have even put framing with the larger deck screws, which are really similar to dry wall screws. just avoid Chinese made screws if you can find non Chinese screws.
@@dalejrjunior1298 I’ve actually started using U2 fastners, an improved version of grk at the same price point. I had been finding the quality of construction screws has become so poor the cost savings wasn’t worrying it because I was throwing out almost every second screw
What I have noticed after watching your channel for so many years is that the comments "rarely" flat out disagree with your subject content. You do your research and always add, "in my opinion" or some other qualifying statement to substianate your fact. That's why when you reccomened a product I can buy it with confidence and know it will serve me well! !! !!!
One thing I have learned over the years is there are few absolutes in life, especially in woodworking. What may work for me may work completely differently for others. And vise-versa. It's a curious thing. I think it is part of human nature. We can perceive something to absolutely one way, someone else can perceive it the other way, and both can demonstrate the truth of their perception.
Used drywall screws since 1991 when I bought my first skill 12 V cordless. Purchased a 25 pound box of 3 inch fine thread drywall screws. Ran out of them years ago and I’m still reusing them when I pull things apart.
I've worked in multiple cabinet shops that used exclusively drywall screws for almost everything. I've never had anything fail because of the drywall screws.
That was true for me too, before the Net, and when I started buying screws in large quantities. Shop and you'll find many places that will sell you, for example, 200 screws for $20.00, or a 1,000 screws for $28.00, and you get to choose between torques, square drive and philips.
I have done a number of projects in a hurry using drywall screws, including outdoor fence job. Most were pre-drilled. Do I think "highly" of drywall screws? Perhaps not. I think they are made of harden steel (maybe higher carbon content, harder but more brittle). Like this video, they can be snap off vs. bend.
Good one James, I’ve been using drywall screws for projects without failure for about 50 years. Seemed like the point of this video was to show not what the screws were designed to do but what they actually could do. I have to add I ponied up and bought a box of GRK screws to build the Cosman bench with a friend for a vet and during the process you use screws as temporary clamps to hold the MDF together while the glue dried, we pre drilled and broke quite a few of them which was disappointing. Thanks for the comparison!
You broke GRK screws in MDF?????? Should have returned the box for a refund for defective set. I use GRK’s with an impact driver on high-stress construction work and mighty have broken one or two in thousands!
I recently bought a box of grk screws for my workbench build and was very pleased with them. They went in so smoothly. I still was left wishing I had pre drilled a couple of locations because it did split the wood two times. Live and learn.
Thanks James, as usual you deliver the most intelligent, well thought out comparisons without resorting to cheap stunts and comments designed to create division and controversy as we’ve seen some of your compatriots sinking to more and more often recently in the desperate search for money from content views. In this you rise above so many others and continue to deliver some of the best quality content in any sphere on the web, thanks mate. Keep up the great work 😎👍
As a SPAX guy, I can say they are definitely harder to start, even in a lot of the store lumber around here (I live in SYP territory). I imagine they're designed with using an impact driver in mind. I like to use a spring punch tool to make a nice divot, really helps them bite and get started. A tradeoff I'm definitely willing to make to greatly reduce the need for pilot holes though.
I got off Spax after breaking so many of them so easily during remodels. Switched to GRK, never went back. Spax do split the wood less, but it's not enough of a benefit to use them over the stronger GRKs, which are the only structural rated screw there
I'm not loyal to either, but have a good opinion of both. With the SPAX, I do agree that they aren't easy to start. Instead of the spring punch, i'd just tap the screw with a hammer where I was going to drive it and that seems to work for me if I'm not going to use a pilot hole, but not a bad idea. That said, the SPAX head has a blunt pyramid shape. The ridges of the pyramid act like the notch for the others, and being blunt tends to help with splitting too.
For the SPAX screws you have to keep two things in mind: First, they are not Torx head but SPAX head. They need a special bit (normally included in the bigger packs and also sold separately) that has a pin at the tip. With this bit they won't wobble around so much at the start and also have a better overall fit. You CAN use a torx head but the SPAX one is better. Second, there are two different qualities of SPAX. Avoid the ones at the big box stores. Get them at a dedicated hardware store. SPAX produces lower quality for the big box stores such as lowes or home depot (Obi , Hagebau and others, if you are living in Germany).
Hi I actually work at spax. I pick and ship screws out we ship the same screws to hardware stores as we do to Menards and home depot. If you had problem with the ones you bought at a bigger store then it probably was a bad batch you should contact us.
Something that almost everybody misses: In a lot of applications, we have a lot of shear stress between the two pieces being joined. Relying on the screw itself to resist that stress is all wrong. The real job of the screw is to hold the two pieces tightly against each other, so that friction between the pieces resists the stress. And the only way that can happen is if the screw threads are not engaged in the first piece. This means that you have to pre-drill oversize, or use a smooth -shanked screw, so that the joint will pull up properly.
In structural steel frames, this is called a slip-critical spplication because it relies on friction between the two mating faces to resist the shear load. The bolt (or screw) tension provides the clamping force to create the friction. The bolts only resist the tension loads created as the structure sways sideways (wind, earthquake). Believe it or not, this design concept comes from seismic engineering and is what makes structures more resistant to failure during an earthquake.
Definitely not the only way. With the smooth shank you are relying solely on the head of the screw to keep the boards together. If you are able to clamp the wood first you can use a fully threaded screw.
Agree. Also please note that in shear applications it's best to have the screw shank at the shear line and not at the screw threads. The threads create a stress concentration which could lead to a shear failure. The smooth shank would be more forgiving in that situation.
For cabinet making the screw needs a shank and a clearance hole. The two pieces pull apart without a clearance hole. These days it’s not common practice to use clearance drilling, just whack ‘‘em in with an impact driver hoping the screw will drill a clearance before the end strips the wood. Likewise the countersink is now created by the head crushing the wood. Ok for house building! Not for cabinet making.
Great video! I'd like to mention that there is a carpenter's guide to fasteners that goes into more detail about drywall screws. I'm not sure where to find it online as it was given to me by a trade instructor. But it does cover information about considerations for the sheer, tensile, and compressive strength of fasteners. I think a second test comparing how each fastener handles a sheer, tensile, and compressive load when properly installed into the intended material might yield some interesting results. It might be a big undertaking though with the, sheer volume of fasteners out there these days.
I moved away from drywall screws when I started working with hardwoods. I found the drywall screws either broke off or split the wood too easily. I now use GRK in hardwoods and deck screws in softwoods. Drywall screws also rust and bleed that rust too easily.
A number of years ago I built a series of free standing shelves in the storeroom at work. 7 in all, all built from 2x4 lumber and 3/4" plywood. 6 of the shelves got built with deck screws, all #10 2 1/2" long. Every joint had four screws in both directions. I ran out of screws, so i sent the boss to get more. He comes back with black drywall screws because they were cheaper. I built the shelf the same way, but did use two more screws per joint. The basic design of the shelf was 24x48" shelves topped with plywood. The ends were 2x4's laid flat covered in plywood, then screwed in both directions to each shelf spaced at 25". The shelves were to hold aluminum castings, about 800 lbs on each shelf. The shelves were all fine for about 10 months, then one morning I walked in and found the shelf build with the drywall screws on the floor. Every last screw had sheared off collapsing the shelf vertically to the floor. The other shelves were all fine, and still are today. The drywall screws failed due to lack of shear strength. What I suppose happened was that the top shelf, which had unlimited height on top, got loaded with heavier items. When that shelf sheared its screws, the impact and added weight on each lower shelf forced a cascade collapse. The shelf got rebuilt with new wood and deck screws, plus we added vertical supports in between each shelf to better support the load. In hing sight the short supports would have saved the shelf from collapsing but the other shelves, which were loaded just as heavy or heavier, all survived just fine. I built similar shelves in my garage at home, there I used nuts and bolts drilled through with deck screws only securing the plywood and the corners of each shelf. Then I still added in between supports. The one shelf at home currently supports cast iron cylinder heads, about 45 of them in all.
Drywall screws are not junk, but they are made of very hard and brittle steel. Some drywall screws are also very slender, making them especially weak. I have found thicker ones which are much stronger. One must realize that if they are stressed too much they will snap abruptly rather than flex or bend. By contrast, wood screws are much softer and have a lower tensile strength.
Agreed I use the course thread ones a lot. Not really for woodwork. But if knocking something together. I have never had them fail because I don't use them past their ability
100% correct, you can get drywall screws is various lengths and sizes. They make them in in #6, #8, and #10 (supposedly #12 as well, but I've never seen them). And given that sheer strength is proportional to the diameter of the shank, the greater the size the higher the sear strength. You can also get them in various lengths from 3/4 to 5 inches. And Given that pull out strength is proportional to the amount of thread that is embedded into the substrate. The longer the screw the more pull out strength. So when people attach something with the cheapest #6 x 3/4" drywall screws that they can buy, and then complain about drywall screws being weak, well what the Fuck are they talking about?
If the drywall screws are brittle it may be cause they did not go through a stress relieving or drawing back operation after heat treatment. If they are heat treated at all anyway. Plus when these screws are made the threads are not cut. They are rolled. That introduces alot of stresses into the material. One problem I think that crops up with drywall screws is that the cordless drills we all use now can simply put out too much torque. Actual drywall screw drivers probably put out a torque value suited to construction grade pine to suit the application.
You have a very euphonious natural voice, Mr Nubs. It makes it very easy to listen to a 16-minute long video... about screws! What I know is that I will do almost anything to avoid the use of an actual screwdriver, and I want to use my amazing De Walt impact driver (usually on the foolproof setting of "1") to drive all screws. This means I just pass right over anything that isn't a square drive. Star-Drive screws are very uncommon in NZ, and Philips/Posidrive screws are highly likely to torque out, or require too much pushing to prevent damaging the screwhead. The story of the history of screws is absolutely amazing, and goes hand in hand with the introduction of mass manufacture. And the quality of screws has improved dramatically since I was a kid. I hate to think how many times I injured myself using straight-head screws, or how many times I wrecked a Philips screw head.
The everbilt screws may be the most expensive, but anyone who has bought them quickly learns their price isn’t set to match quality, but simply to rip off the average home owner looking for screws for a small project. When you throw them out of the running, I see from your tests a pretty direct relationship between performance and cost (which matches my experience). In the end one learns to match different screws to the project at hand. This was helpful. I find sheer strength to be a crucial factor, and wish you had spent more time on that. For instance I’ve found SPAXs to be fairly brittle and GRKs to bend almost like a nail- I tested them by slowly bending a butt joint rather than by a high impact hammer blow. Thanks.
I recently started using Deckmate screws in my woodshop projects. I think after a year or so of using them, I'm on the same T25 bit in my driver, whereas I can't tell you how many philips bits I've gone through over the years. That said, they don't come in many sizes so I like to keep a stock of those zinc steel jobbies in 1/4" increments. This was really fascinating and informative though. Thanks!
A Robertson head on a drywall screw seems like such bad design as they'd be less likely to cam out from the bit of the screw gun consistently/at proper depth? If I could erase Philips from existence I absolutely would except for drywall screws only
Robertson heads are tapered and do cam out. Not as easily as a Phillips heads, but I had the Robertson head cam out several times in these tests while the Torz heads never did.
I love Robertson screws but you need to make sure that you quality screws and bits if not they can slip when driving the screws. It's the only screws that you can put on the driver bit and point it at the ground and it won't fall off
I actually watched to the end - no mean feat when the video is about screws. I’m going to gradually replace my regular shiny steel screws with GRK. You did it again: added to my knowledge in an interesting and comprehensive way, James. Thanks again.
Like a lot of things it depends on the application. I use a lot of common head brass screw in furniture projects and carefully drill a tapered hole, a clearance bore for the shank and a countersink. Clearly not the strongest or fastest fastener but that’s how it’s done. It works just fine, can last for generations and it’s what people expect to see.
I never realized screws are so specific to their own limited application, but it makes a ton of sense. It explains why all the rope swing platforms i built as a teenager would always suddenly collapse with someone standing on it instead of the wood gradually cracking apart.
James. Love your analysis. Always fair and unbiased. Most importantly though is your thoroughness. I always, always, always learn something new. Excellent.
Drywall screws are great. I have used them for thousands of projects over the last 30 years. Yeah they can be brittle, and yeah they can snap if you go bonkers with an impact driver, but if you are normal person with normal reflexes, you won't have that problem. Always use the coarse thread for woodworking. They can't be used for ANYTHING in a high humidity area such as outdoors or in a bathroom, but other than that, they are great. If you need something stronger, I usually go to coated deck screws, which are great also, but more expensive. Don't listen to the purist naysayer nonsense. Too many cranky old men in the woodworking channels.
I'm totally guilty of using drywall screws. Depending on the project of course. Some things call for spec. I got ahold of some screws that are said to have a shear strength similar to nails. I've never tested them to see if the claims on the box are true or not though.
Have you ever picked up a sheet of drywall??? Do you actually understand what it takes for a couple of those screws to secure it well enough to continue fastening the thing to the wall??? Don't knock those little bastards!!! They're tougher than a LOT of people think. They're NOT always the "right answer" in a project, and pilot-holes DO tend to make just about everything better when they're feasible... BUT there's nothing inherently wrong with a solution to a screwy problem using drywall screws in part or whole. ...AND I'll stick by that exposition. ;o)
For high humidity or moist environments I've found that even the outdoor or deck screws I've tried eventually corrode badly. It's worse yet with the pressure treated woods after they got rid of the arsenic and added more copper maybe 20 years ago. I'm now willing to pay the significantly higher price for stainless screws. As a bonus, they'll bend a lot more before they break, much like a nail.
@@benz-share9058 You can still get paraffin wax in blocks fairly cheap... and the wax helps protect the screw as much as it helps lubricate putting it in... It's not perfect, but it can definitely prolong lasting power, in case you're either stuck with some old ones, or end up with the old ones again... The wax also helps with a variety of tools and surfaces, especially protecting metal surfaces that regularly rub against wood... from the "table" of your table-saw (and the under-side of your circular saw) to the sole of hand-planes and a fair variety of others... Just rub the wax on rather like a giant crayon... or for screws, press down sideways with one finger and roll or twist to gouge in and coat the screw with the thumb and forefinger of the other hand... In certain applications, it can help with nails, too... cheap and a single block can last years... depending on your regularity at the craft. ;o)
@gnarth d'arkanen interesting. I haven't heard this one yet. Paraffin should be hard enough not to affect the finishing process. How does it stand against wood pitch clogging up saw teeth and the general area around the table top?
Excellent video, like many others here, I’ve used drywall screws on hundreds of projects I just learned pre-drilling works best with them and can’t beat the value👍
The only problem with drywall screws is when joining two pieces of wood they must be held tight together while driving the screw. If there is a gap, the drywall screw might not pull them together. Otherwise I use them all the time.
There are drywall screws with non-threaded last portion just like deck screws, they are made for the same reason, like attaching wood to a stud through drywall, or even to pull the drywall sheet closer to the stud. However, they are not as amazing as they sound, the combination of being more brittle and the fact that the threads protrude more than regular screws meaning they require use of more torque, means they snap quite often, especially if you use long ones.
You could drill a larger hole in the top piece and then the screw should still be able to pull them together. We can compensate for the lack of a smooth shaft with graded pilot holes
Usually when I am using drywall screws I’m doing something fast and easy. With those types of projects are structural and will be painted or otherwise hidden.
A little late to this show but in regards to screw brittleness, it is easy enough to make a quantitative determination of how shear loads affect the screw. Drive the screws into a board to an equal depth or until the last thread has just sunk into the wood. Clamp the board in a vise so the screws are horizontal. Apply weight, hang a weighted chain from the screw and add known weight until fracture. That will give you a number relatively close to the actual shear load the screw can resist before bending and or failing. The point where bending occurs would realistically be the point where usefulness of the screw ends as it has yielded. (Deformation changes from elastic to plastic)
Great video! One thing I would point out is that you've done an excellent job of measuring the torsional forces which break screws, but these might very well be different from the shear forces the screws can withstand. So while a particular screw might be weaker than others against torsion along its central axis, it might be significantly stronger than others across its cross section and may provide greater resistance to pull out. Also, drywall screws tend to have micro metal shavings on them, which often get embedded in fingers. Very difficult to extract! I've never experienced this with other types of screws.
SO TRUE! I lost count of the number of times I could feel a splinter in my finger but wasn't able to physically see it. I just blindly tweezed all the skin in the surrounding area in hopes that I got it out, lol.
You're right. If I'm not mistaken, screws are manufactured via a thread rolling process, which is a cold forming process that induces an increase in strength and reduction in ductility (work hardening, it's also called) in the portion of the cross section that undergoes plastic deformation. Since this hardening is not present across the entire section, the process that started with a material, such as low or mid carbon steel, that is considered to be isotropic in resisting stresses and ends up with a fastener that doesn't behave in the same manner when stressed across different planes.
Interesting. I would say that I rarely drive a screw without drilling a pilot hole first. As I build my new bench and shelves in my new shop, drywall screws with pilot holes is probably the way I will go. Thanks, James.
25 years ago I was watching a video produced by Norm Abrams. He said dry wall screws are my favorite screws. They are sharp and are good for most projects I work on. Over the years I have have used them on many of my projects. Yes I have many other screws for projects. But dry wall screws are my favorite. Thanks for another great video!
The newer version of the Grip Rite prime guard plus are pretty awesome. They have pretty much all of the “features” of these plus a couple extra ones, not sure if they are gimmicks or actual improvements. Picked up 50# at Lowe’s for under $150, they are usually quite a bit more than that. You can run them right through a 4x4 if you wanted. The GRK construction lag / screws are pretty excellent as well.
I notice that the issue of fine threads, designed/intended for hardwoods, versus course threads, intended/designed for softwood, isn't addressed. Both are available in sheetrock screws, though the finger threads are intended for metal studs, not hardwood. I'd like to see this addressed in a video.
I'd like to see a comparison with machine bolts w/tapped wood threads too. I've found them to be surprisingly strong, as long as they are used cross-grain.
For attaching faceplates to bowl blanks, I have found the GRK are by far the best by far. The zinc plated wood screws snap. I've snapped deck screws as well. The GRK can be used over and over without wearing out.
Preachin the truth🙏! Anybody in the trades that says different is either a liar or a sales rep. I use drywall screws 95% ott (and deckmates for the rest).
I’m wondering whether trying plated wood screws from a different supplier might yield different results. I drive a great many of them at work and they rarely snap off. Of course, I’m not driving them into hardwood without pilot holes, but usually into plywood without pilot holes. As for cost, if you use enough of one size (1 1/4” for instance) then buying them at a supplier of fasteners rather than a hardware or big box store can save a lot of money. They usually have significant price breaks for quantity, dropping significantly at 1,000+, 3,000+, and so on.
I'm no longer making much since moving to an apartment, sadly. I've never made anything that needed the strength and for many years didn't have a drill. Therefore, using a hammer and small nail, that's the pilot hole. Then using the screwdriver, I usually close drywall or decking screws that had the largest threads. And above all, using a bar of soap on the threads. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with me about all things in the shop. Who knows... maybe someday I'll be able to put on my nice leather tool belt again. Stay safe ,Vickie
I always go for GRK when I can. They are pretty stupid proof especially when you can’t keep an eye on the boys. Also they have some sizes that are so excellent for building wooden retaining walls and the like that you can save an insane amount of time because you don’t have to pre-drill and deal with bent or broken 10” garden spikes nearly as much. However they are very expensive so don’t forget a $700 box on your tailgate and go for a 5 mile drive. (My general contractor lost his mind when he realized he did this. 🤣)
That confirms why I hate zinc plated screws so much. Since I always drill pilot holes in hardwood, I will spend less on screws to put it on nice boards and tools. Thank you very much for this comparison. I liked it A LOT!
@@gnic76 12” long screws with heads the size of nickels are going to do much worse then puncture tires. We went looking but he forgot about them for 5 hours so it was long cleaned up or some lucky person found a busted box and collected a huge prize.
I use spax mostly. I think you should spend a little more time on how to use the clutch as I have snapped off the head of a lot of drywall screws when I over torqued the screw.
I used GRK on my first woodworking project. Everytime I've tried it had to use other types, even GRK adjacent brands, ive always been underwhelmed or straight frustrated.
I used to have that issue with my ryobi drill. Buddy of mine said to try his Milwaukee and it never happened again I think you need the speed to get those screws in without a pilot hole otherwise you end up bending the shank and snapping them If you check out Project Farm’s vid he said the grk and spax were basically the best “yellow deck screw”
I bought a big box of drywall screws about 20 years ago, and I've been using them for all sorts of indoor purposes since then. I like that they are so easy to drive.
People tend to forget one important things about drywall screws.... They are meant to fasten drywall to WOOD. The "drywall" in the name simply means they are designed to minimize damage to the drywall. They still provide secure fastening to the wooden studs in your walls.
Thanks James , your tests are excellent ,accurate and practical. You have often saved me money and disappointment as well. I will continue to check out your opinions because you are committed to the truth and being the best that you can be .😊
6:55 I don't doubt your test results with 1.25" screws. The same test with 2" or 2.5" screws though would show those Drywall screws snapping from twist. I know, because it happens regularly. Drywall screws are spec'd for pine.
@@Theexplorographer Actually, it can. To compare two items you simply subject the examples to equal conditions and observe their reactions. If a 1-1/4" drywall screw is aprox. 25% weaker than a 1-1/4" Spax screw when both are driven into 3/4 maple, it stands to reason a 3" drywall screw will also be aprox. 25% weaker than a 3" Spax screw when both are driven into 2" maple.
@@StumpyNubs to compare screw features is a valid reason to create a video, but to state that drywall screws are better in the title is misleading. Drywall screws are better, to fasten drywall to studs, but definitely not much else (they are oil coated to prevent rust and are threaded to the head which is ok for the soft core of drywall but will get threadbound in wood without a pilot hole) Deck screws are designed and work best to fasten deck boards, particle board screws for cabinets, etc... Good concept to this video but I think you weren't as thorough as you usually are.
@@stevenvachon9745 The title says they proved better than my most expensive wood screws. That is absolutely true. The most expensive screws in the test failed miserably in 15 out of 15 examples.
Very interesting : ) But, the heads spinning off of drywall screws only increases with length. This is why I never use them for anything other than...drywall, where their narrow shaft and bugle head excel! Furthermore, they rust through far more quickly than construction screws. Of all of the screws you tested, I use them all, except the zinc, wood screws. I agree, I have not found a good use for them. However, all of the others have jobs applications where they excel : )
In any woodworking project the first question is what is the screw being used for. Purists aside screws do have their place*. If the screw is out of sight there are screws made for that. If the screw is in sight then it is usually being used to attach a metal accessory such as a drawer pull used on period style chests. *One reason I think the purist mentality reigns so much is what I like to call the "Fine Woodworking Effect". Yes they feature some amazing projects. But for the vast majority of hobbiests it is far above what they are actually going to be be working on.
I'm a big fan of GRKs entire line of screws. I've never tried Spax brand of screws, mainly because I'm so happy with the GRKs performance. Nothin that I've tried comes close. They drive easier than most other screw brands and they hold tighter. And the torx drive on the screws are so well machined that I almost never get a strip out. I'm a professional carpenter of 40yrs.
Just wanted to comment and say thanks for your time sir. I know that was a lot of work, filming and editing. Keep at it, I can’t wait to congratulate you on a million subs!
I like your videos a lot, but this test seems to be missing a key feature: You expect to determine how different screws perform, by simply driving them into a single piece of wood.. But this is not a real world situation; screws are always used to join two things together. And in the midst of that, a screw behaves a lot differently. We always teach our apprentices to never rely on the clutch feature, in fact to never use it at all. When working in construction settings, the reason for wanting to use the clutch often derives from working with materials that must not be perforated by fasteners, lest their integrity be forfeit. But in a construction environment the wood that you fasten into is usually exposed to shifting temperatures & climates, causing it to be different levels of moist/dry & soft/hard. The integrity of the wood underneath determines how far a screw will bore into a surface, when joining two pieces of material together and if that is just a little unreliable, the clutch really does more harm than good. Ones trigger-finger must be the real clutch, since that is the only reliable aid to making sure screws are fastened properly, that and a measure of focus on the task at hand. - And like you said, pilot holes are always a good idea, when necessary. Thank you for good content, Kind Regards
@@StumpyNubs Yeah, that seems to have been overlooked by some. It is hard to "test" and derive some valid data unless you go to extremes. Well, that or make the video 5 or 6 decades long. LOL
Thanks for the video. I used 3 inch drywall screws to install kitchen cabinets 35 years ago. I predrilled and countersunk the holes. “Knock on wood” everything is still in its place.
Did you forget about application? You won’t frame a house with screws on account of brittleness of screws. Maybe the expensive screws are made with flexibility in mind?
A well thought out experiment. You've covered every aspect and characteristic of each type. Also, excellent views and narration, very easy to watch and listen to.
I inadvertently discovered drywall screws a few years ago. I liked the geometry of the screws and their gripping ability. Your testing seems to validate my personal experience. Thanks!
Thank you Stumpy for yet another superbly informative, and scientifically thought out video on my favorite activity. I built my first boat using drywall screws to hold the parts in place while the epoxy-fiberglass joints cured with the intention of pulling them out after the cure. Too many times the heads broke off while trying to extract them. I think I mostly used 2" or 1-5/8" screws for this assembly, which are a little longer than your test screws, therefore more likely to break off. Of course the cured epoxy also gripped the screws. My cohort boat-builders warned me to never use them because of this, and any screw or nail left in a boat is likely to rust and lead to premature rot and other degradation. There was a time when so many heads broke off that I continued using a soldering iron to melt the epoxy and successfully extracted the rest of them. now I prefer some kind of exterior screws for almost everything even non-marine projects, simply because they are less likely to lose their heads. And drywall screws WILL rust.
Thanks, I have used cheap black drywall screws for indoor projects, never outdoors, for 48 years and never had a failure. many shelves 2' x 8' plywood and 2 x 4 holding hundreds of pounds. The shelves in my shed hold bags of fertilizer, mulch, concrete, sand. I always bore a pilot hole.
I understand the benefit of these different types of screws. When I make furniture I like to stick with time tested joinery. Quite often no metal is necessary to make sure it will be around one hundred years from now. My earliest pieces are half way there. Putting up a hand rail is definitely different. Geometry of screws leads me to tested results. When I am screwing hinges to cabinets shearing the screws is not my concern. Is the screw shoulder match the hinge. Is the flathead ninety or 80 degrees? If the does not match then it will have play and lead to failure. I worked in a tool room in a fabricating shop. It’s a very long topic. Thanks for bringing it up.
Excellent. I enjoy your articulate explanations. Thank you for including information for people who don't have all the specialized tools. Very well done.
Thanks very much for doing this side by side comparison. There are several useful lessons here, from heads coming off the plated screws, to a LOT of splitting with drywall screws. All very useful stuff to know.
Thanks. A lot of people don't bother to listen to the whole video before focusing their comments on just the title. If they did, they would learn a lot :)
@@StumpyNubs I always click "like" on your videos before watching them, because I know your information will be good, useful, concise, and clear. I not only watch and listen to the whole video, I usually read most of the comments before posting because there's no need for me to chime in if somebody else has already made the point. Now, for something completely different: It may just be me getting older and more interested in comfort, but over the last 3 months the trike riding weather here in Eugene has been in short supply. Looks like you guys are getting hammered. Still getting out? Hi to your dad.
@@mikecurtin9831 I don't ride when it's salty in the winter, or wet in the spring because it makes a mess of the expensive trike. Usually get some riding in in late April, but not regularly until after the may rain stops. When it's really hot in July or August I may do less, as well. But my dad (he rides a 2-wheeler) loves the heat.
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Dude. You did it. You made me watch a whole video on screws.
Dude! me too!
I feel I can screw much better now
Screwed us all 🤣
Stumpy Nubs is consistently the most interesting and informative channel I have yet found. While others concentrate on showing builds in superb workshops, Stumpy Nubs informs you about the tools, materials, techniques and history of woodworking. Bravo, James Hamilton!
Project Farm just did a deck screw compare. He liked the GRK and Spax. He tested for deck related stuff so SN’s tests here are valid. The big differences are the unthreaded shank and bugle head. That is your shear holding force and tension capacity. It’s all about cross section and stress risers (snaps off at notches vs smooth face). I will pay extra for screws that don’t snap. Hate those zinc fasteners.
That was a great video showing the imperical evidence of which screw is better. This video was good with the empirical evidence.
I tried to use one of the zinc screws to fix a kids broom that was some kind of hardwood. The head snapped off and left the shaft inside. I still can't decide if it was better that way or not since it is holding fine. Terrible screws.
I bought those zinc plated screws once before. That was the first and last time. Snapped them with a screwdriver. They couldn't even hold up to muscle power. Pathetic
@BB you can use any fastener for any application if you can design it in a way that overcomes the limitations of the fasteners. SR screws are thin and the heads aren’t as strong. Pilot hole and countersink. Use a tighter fastener pitch (more per foot). If in place where they might get damp, seal them with something.
@@ajaehall7695 I have done the same. Just think of what our parents and grandparents had to deal with. Weak screws, manual drivers, and only slotted tops.
I used dry wall screws to fasten shelf brackets through drywall into timber battens through a vapour barrier in my workshop which holds containers for thousands of screws, nuts and bolts. For 14 years no problem until one day while reaching for a container they collapsed and avalanched to the floor with me in shock after jumping back in amazement. The cause was where the screws had penetrate vapour barrier they had over time rusted through and the last straw broke the camel’s back. Top shelf collapsed onto the next and so on. Lesson learned!!
This is why drywall screws are meant for drywall and not anything structural. Stumpy missed the point which is why screws have different designs, they are meant for different applications. He's comparing apples to avocados.
@@stevenvachon9745 He also said several times not to use them for anything structural.
I think his point was that they can be used for more than drywall, which I agree with, although he could have been a bit clearer about that at the end.
Well you got 14 years out of them which is good.
But even if you used a coated deck screw, multipurpose construction screw, or a structural screw, eventually you would have had s similar result (Given a lot longer than 14 years). Cause those are only corrosion resistant and not corrosion proof.
You should have gone with stainless steel screws, they'll last you damn near forever.
Kinda pricey though.
@@mountainbikerdave it never entered my head at the time and not really heavily loaded. I was there 5 hours filtering through literally thousands of different size screws and nails and putting them back into containers. My exit was completely closed off 😄 my plan is to build shallow draws with multiple divisions. Floor standing of course.
@@johngrant5749 you can do wall mounted or ceiling/rafter mounted as well, just make sure to pick up the right hardware.
Which it might seem that you had plenty of experience with picking up hardware LOL.
This has to be the first time I have ever had anyone actually test "Screws" well done MANY MANY THANKS.
It's simply unbelievable how excellent the quality of your content is on this channel. Fantastic videos for beginners like myself and I'm sure old timers get something out of it also. Well done.
I used drywall screws for years. Then I discovered the construction/deck screws and never looked back.
They don't rust, they aren't phillips head, they seat better, and they don't cost that much more.
I always have a box of each size from 1-1/4" through 3" on my fastener shelf.
I quit drywall screws mainly because they only come in phillips head, which I've come to hate with the fiery rage of a thousand suns due to the ease of cam out. Not that I'm opinionated or emotional about this issue or anything...
Phillips head should be illegal
@@mgelliott86 twenty years ago while building a six foot fence we run out of screws. My mate only had dry wall screws in the van we used these to finish the fence. After approximately three years all the dry wall screws rusted through and the fence fell to bits. The rest of the fence was still good.
@@mgelliott86 INDEED! In Canada, we are blessed with Robertson screwheads, and hate the Phillips (which we must use for any foreign design). We even have dual heads, that accept both Robertson and Phillips drivers (giving much less torque though). Now that I'm in Europe, it's all Phillips.... I get Torx whenever I can, but most items bought contain Phillips screws. Even the bolts are evenly split between Phillips and Hex. In Europe, they apparently never go to know a screw head that could stick to the driver until the hex (Allen) came along.
I carried over the single bed I used all my childhood. It stayed dormant for a decade, and now my son sleeps on it (with a new mattress...that we also had to buy in Canada, since European beds are a different size). It's a wooden structure with the very same Robertson screws from almost 40 years ago. None have stripped, they simply go in and out. AND THEY HOLD FAST ON THE DRIVER. I still have some Robertson in my random spare screw reserve, and I'm glad I brought my Canadian bits and drivers over so I can use them.
To think, the only reason Phillips heads are widely used is because of British swindlers who robbed Robertson as UK license holders. Thus, when Henry Ford wanted his screws as license, Robertson said no, please simply buy them, I've been screwed (pun intended) once with a license, not again. Ford wanted to control the screw production, so he went with the Phillips instead. The rest is history.
@@martinhoude3518, Robertson sucks as well! Sorry Canada. It's better than a Phillips head but that's not that high of a bar. Torx is where everything should be.
From a Structural Analysis Engineer: Insofar as possible, fasteners of any kind (yes, including dowels and tennons) should only be used in SHEAR. Sometimes this requires a bit of design effort, but it will reduce failures.
If tension load is unavoidable, use bolts and nuts, and preload them well. This is difficult in wood,.as preload cannot be maintained over time...
I think you should clarify your statement a bit. In general, it's best to avoid putting fasteners directly in shear unless they're designed for that (e.g. pins, dowels, tenons). The shear strengths of fasteners (e.g. bolts, screws, and the like) is less than their tension strengths.
For bolts/screws/etc maybe you're saying that it's better to design the assembly itself to rely on a clamped joint instead of one that hangs the part from the fastener?
I could be missing something here as it relates to the video though? After all, I just skipped through the video and didn't watch the whole thing in its entirety.
Points well made. A tension load is applied along the length of the fastener. Putting a screw vertically into an overhead joist and hanging a plant from it is putting a tensile load on the screw. All that is holding it in is the screw threads.
Pull-through (the head is pulled through the material, e.g., you fasten a piece of foam to a board, and pull- you are.left with an intact screw in the board, and a chunk of foam with a hole in it), pull out (the wood is soft and the threads fail, leaving a stripped hole and an intact, loose fastener-like pulling a nail), and head failure (unlikely in wood working) are the ways you lose joint integrity.
Shear is loading the fastener at 90 degrees to it's long axis. Shear strength is approximately 3/4 of tensile strength (for steel). For a wood screw, the shear area is based on the minimum diameter of the screw-at the bottom of the threads, unless there is an unthreaded shank which penetrates into all the wood in the joint- if fastening two boards together, the shank must protrude through the first board somewhat to generate full strength.
The good news is that friction (clamping action) and glue spread the load out and relieve the load in the fastener
@@pachinkotronkfollo1075 "tension load" would be a force that is trying to pull the screw out of the hole. A "shear load" is perpendicular - as if it is trying to cut the screw in half at the middle instead of pull it apart. Side note: screws in general use a hardened steel that is more brittle in shear and nails are more maleable making them better for shear loads, if a bolt can't be used. But cross sectional area of the fastener will also be very important for shear loads.
And yet another clarification: If the item is a lightweight rack to hold bandsaw blades, an eye glass rack, a rack for push shoes [over the table saw] and so on, a few screws straight into overhead 2x's will never be a problem.
@TJP 81 I did say "This is difficult in wood,.as preload cannot be maintained over time"...
I picked up a model airplane engine--old, hadn't been touched in years. The wooden prop was still on it, and I took the not off by hand. The prop hub (Wood) was truly compressed, and it had been very tight when put away...
A trick my father taught me when I was a teen, half a century ago:
- To drastically reduce the torque stress of screwing, rub the screw on soap (maybe mildly wet soap) before using it. So lubricated, the screw will enter the wood easily, but will lose no holding or tensional properties.
Especially good trick when using a manual screwdriver.
You can dip them in silicone sealant too - helps if you need to take the screw out later too.
Charles Neil used to use wax from a toilet wax ring, I’ve used with good success. Don’t have to use much.
Candle wax works well too.
My late father got a tip from an old Brazilian carpenter/joiner back in the 70s, one that I use to this day - he used saliva on the screw or nail. This would now only lubricate it on the way in, but the surface of the fastener would rust slightly thus making it less likely to pull out (in the case of the nail).
I was taught never to use soap as it will stain the wood, but to run the screw through your hair to add lubrication. Worked well when I still had hair.
I really enjoy your channel. I’ve recently retired from 32 years of teaching and can now reach for my other adventures that have been on the back burner. Your professionalism is greatly appreciated and TRUSTED by me. Attention to detail is a key for success as well as thinking outside the standard box. Thanks for mastering the art of woodworking. You have my highest respect.
The whole line of GRK for anything cabinetry and interior millwork related are fantastic. The trim head screws are exceptional.
I love GRK screws.
Yes sir! I install a lot of cabinets....no substitute for grk....the only downside is the smaller screws being t15 and having to switch to t25 for the longer screws but completely worth it
This was the most comprehensive screw review I have ever seen. I might want to add some advanced experience advice to this. Whenever using screws in a sheer situation, use good quality wood glue on the facing joints. Especially when using sheetrock screws. Sheetrock screws are very brittle and will not hold up to sheer loads. But on the tension, not so bad. The glue makes up the difference. And always predrill the first suffice.
Check out project farm channel
@@gregmize01 Already subbed to Him. 👍
Hi Stanley, I agree. I have used drywall screws a lot, and have found them to be good as long as the sheer forces are minimal. When used in joints with a lot of sheer force, they snap. Likewise if exposed to a lot of vibration.
That is exactly what I was thinking as I watched this video. Almost any screw that doesn't strip out the wood or snap when being driven will work well when loaded in tension (the screw will strip out of the wood before the steel fails in tension). James does a good job of demonstrating which screws are most likely to be installed properly without damaging the screw or the wood fibers in a way that would compromise the joint. But loads due to sheer or bending moments are different story. James' first test showed just how bad all screws are when subjected to bending moments. Of course a properly designed joint should never rely on just the screw to resist sheer or bending moment loads.
@@ay8306 I think screw heads break off upon extraction, not due to tension, but due to torsion: the head wants to turn, but the threaded shank doesn't, so the neck twists apart.
Sounds like a job for PROJECT FARM.
He's done it.
I REALLY like how straight forward and clear your explanations are for ALL your videos, this one was no different! Thanks, I look forward to learning more.
I just bought 30 lbs. of drywall screws at an auction for $10. Glad the tests show they are efficient, cause it's going to be a long, long time before they're gone.
Throw in a couple countersinks and you have it made - and you're still not close to the cost of the next screw up.
Drywall screws rust very quickly. Always keep that in mind. Never for exterior usage.
For inside projects that carry limited load they work great. Ive used them for decades.
They work great for ... drywall.
For drywall, or other light or medium duty uses where they're not exposed to any moisture.
I've noticed a significant drop in the quality control of so called "premium" screws in general over the past 7 years, they are failing more and more, the heads snap off even in predrilled holes before the head even touches the wood. And every 1 out of 20 in a pack of 3" screws come bent.
They are mostly cheap steel Chinese screws. I am a fan of drywall screws. I have even put framing with the larger deck screws, which are really similar to dry wall screws. just avoid Chinese made screws if you can find non Chinese screws.
Thats world wide, the woke is becoming strong and lazy
Premium tends to mean minimal advantages at maximum cost.
buy GRK screws they sell any kind of screw under the sun and have a t10-t30 driver head
@@dalejrjunior1298 I’ve actually started using U2 fastners, an improved version of grk at the same price point. I had been finding the quality of construction screws has become so poor the cost savings wasn’t worrying it because I was throwing out almost every second screw
What I have noticed after watching your channel for so many years is that the comments "rarely" flat out disagree with your subject content. You do your research and always add, "in my opinion" or some other qualifying statement to substianate your fact. That's why when you reccomened a product I can buy it with confidence and know it will serve me well! !! !!!
One thing I have learned over the years is there are few absolutes in life, especially in woodworking. What may work for me may work completely differently for others. And vise-versa. It's a curious thing. I think it is part of human nature. We can perceive something to absolutely one way, someone else can perceive it the other way, and both can demonstrate the truth of their perception.
Used drywall screws since 1991 when I bought my first skill 12 V cordless. Purchased a 25 pound box of 3 inch fine thread drywall screws. Ran out of them years ago and I’m still reusing them when I pull things apart.
I've worked in multiple cabinet shops that used exclusively drywall screws for almost everything. I've never had anything fail because of the drywall screws.
That was true for me too, before the Net, and when I started buying screws in large quantities. Shop and you'll find many places that will sell you, for example, 200 screws for $20.00, or a 1,000 screws for $28.00, and you get to choose between torques, square drive and philips.
I have done a number of projects in a hurry using drywall screws, including outdoor fence job. Most were pre-drilled. Do I think "highly" of drywall screws? Perhaps not. I think they are made of harden steel (maybe higher carbon content, harder but more brittle). Like this video, they can be snap off vs. bend.
Good one James, I’ve been using drywall screws for projects without failure for about 50 years. Seemed like the point of this video was to show not what the screws were designed to do but what they actually could do. I have to add I ponied up and bought a box of GRK screws to build the Cosman bench with a friend for a vet and during the process you use screws as temporary clamps to hold the MDF together while the glue dried, we pre drilled and broke quite a few of them which was disappointing. Thanks for the comparison!
You broke GRK screws in MDF?????? Should have returned the box for a refund for defective set. I use GRK’s with an impact driver on high-stress construction work and mighty have broken one or two in thousands!
@@robert-ne1835 I was pretty disappointed, hopefully a bad batch. The guy I was working with was pretty surprised as well.
I recently bought a box of grk screws for my workbench build and was very pleased with them. They went in so smoothly. I still was left wishing I had pre drilled a couple of locations because it did split the wood two times. Live and learn.
I was always told your bolts and screws should never be the structural part for holding weight, just what keeps the weight barring stuff together.
Some of the best practical testing on YT.
Thanks James, as usual you deliver the most intelligent, well thought out comparisons without resorting to cheap stunts and comments designed to create division and controversy as we’ve seen some of your compatriots sinking to more and more often recently in the desperate search for money from content views. In this you rise above so many others and continue to deliver some of the best quality content in any sphere on the web, thanks mate. Keep up the great work 😎👍
As a SPAX guy, I can say they are definitely harder to start, even in a lot of the store lumber around here (I live in SYP territory). I imagine they're designed with using an impact driver in mind. I like to use a spring punch tool to make a nice divot, really helps them bite and get started. A tradeoff I'm definitely willing to make to greatly reduce the need for pilot holes though.
I got off Spax after breaking so many of them so easily during remodels. Switched to GRK, never went back. Spax do split the wood less, but it's not enough of a benefit to use them over the stronger GRKs, which are the only structural rated screw there
I'm not loyal to either, but have a good opinion of both. With the SPAX, I do agree that they aren't easy to start. Instead of the spring punch, i'd just tap the screw with a hammer where I was going to drive it and that seems to work for me if I'm not going to use a pilot hole, but not a bad idea.
That said, the SPAX head has a blunt pyramid shape. The ridges of the pyramid act like the notch for the others, and being blunt tends to help with splitting too.
For the SPAX screws you have to keep two things in mind:
First, they are not Torx head but SPAX head. They need a special bit (normally included in the bigger packs and also sold separately) that has a pin at the tip. With this bit they won't wobble around so much at the start and also have a better overall fit. You CAN use a torx head but the SPAX one is better.
Second, there are two different qualities of SPAX. Avoid the ones at the big box stores. Get them at a dedicated hardware store. SPAX produces lower quality for the big box stores such as lowes or home depot (Obi , Hagebau and others, if you are living in Germany).
Hi I actually work at spax. I pick and ship screws out we ship the same screws to hardware stores as we do to Menards and home depot. If you had problem with the ones you bought at a bigger store then it probably was a bad batch you should contact us.
+1 for the spring punch or alternatively a hand awl.
Something that almost everybody misses: In a lot of applications, we have a lot of shear stress between the two pieces being joined. Relying on the screw itself to resist that stress is all wrong. The real job of the screw is to hold the two pieces tightly against each other, so that friction between the pieces resists the stress. And the only way that can happen is if the screw threads are not engaged in the first piece. This means that you have to pre-drill oversize, or use a smooth -shanked screw, so that the joint will pull up properly.
I'm not sure most woodworkers miss that point. I think most woodworkers use mechanical joinery in critical places and screws only where appropriate.
In structural steel frames, this is called a slip-critical spplication because it relies on friction between the two mating faces to resist the shear load. The bolt (or screw) tension provides the clamping force to create the friction. The bolts only resist the tension loads created as the structure sways sideways (wind, earthquake). Believe it or not, this design concept comes from seismic engineering and is what makes structures more resistant to failure during an earthquake.
Definitely not the only way. With the smooth shank you are relying solely on the head of the screw to keep the boards together. If you are able to clamp the wood first you can use a fully threaded screw.
Agree. Also please note that in shear applications it's best to have the screw shank at the shear line and not at the screw threads. The threads create a stress concentration which could lead to a shear failure. The smooth shank would be more forgiving in that situation.
For cabinet making the screw needs a shank and a clearance hole. The two pieces pull apart without a clearance hole. These days it’s not common practice to use clearance drilling, just whack ‘‘em in with an impact driver hoping the screw will drill a clearance before the end strips the wood. Likewise the countersink is now created by the head crushing the wood. Ok for house building! Not for cabinet making.
Great video! I'd like to mention that there is a carpenter's guide to fasteners that goes into more detail about drywall screws. I'm not sure where to find it online as it was given to me by a trade instructor. But it does cover information about considerations for the sheer, tensile, and compressive strength of fasteners. I think a second test comparing how each fastener handles a sheer, tensile, and compressive load when properly installed into the intended material might yield some interesting results. It might be a big undertaking though with the, sheer volume of fasteners out there these days.
I moved away from drywall screws when I started working with hardwoods. I found the drywall screws either broke off or split the wood too easily. I now use GRK in hardwoods and deck screws in softwoods. Drywall screws also rust and bleed that rust too easily.
pilot & counter sink and you wont have a problem unless you ram them home to hard
Love your videos, your attention to detail is what keeps me coming back.
A number of years ago I built a series of free standing shelves in the storeroom at work. 7 in all, all built from 2x4 lumber and 3/4" plywood. 6 of the shelves got built with deck screws, all #10 2 1/2" long. Every joint had four screws in both directions.
I ran out of screws, so i sent the boss to get more. He comes back with black drywall screws because they were cheaper.
I built the shelf the same way, but did use two more screws per joint.
The basic design of the shelf was 24x48" shelves topped with plywood. The ends were 2x4's laid flat covered in plywood, then screwed in both directions to each shelf spaced at 25". The shelves were to hold aluminum castings, about 800 lbs on each shelf. The shelves were all fine for about 10 months, then one morning I walked in and found the shelf build with the drywall screws on the floor. Every last screw had sheared off collapsing the shelf vertically to the floor. The other shelves were all fine, and still are today. The drywall screws failed due to lack of shear strength.
What I suppose happened was that the top shelf, which had unlimited height on top, got loaded with heavier items. When that shelf sheared its screws, the impact and added weight on each lower shelf forced a cascade collapse. The shelf got rebuilt with new wood and deck screws, plus we added vertical supports in between each shelf to better support the load.
In hing sight the short supports would have saved the shelf from collapsing but the other shelves, which were loaded just as heavy or heavier, all survived just fine. I built similar shelves in my garage at home, there I used nuts and bolts drilled through with deck screws only securing the plywood and the corners of each shelf. Then I still added in between supports. The one shelf at home currently supports cast iron cylinder heads, about 45 of them in all.
Yes, as I said in the video, you should not use drywall screws in such structural applications.
You do a worthy review. Well done, and thanks. Never thought I’d watch the whole but enjoyed it all.
Drywall screws are not junk, but they are made of very hard and brittle steel. Some drywall screws are also very slender, making them especially weak. I have found thicker ones which are much stronger. One must realize that if they are stressed too much they will snap abruptly rather than flex or bend. By contrast, wood screws are much softer and have a lower tensile strength.
You mean higher tensile strength, right?
The video clearly shows that drywall screws are no more brittle than any other screw tested.
Agreed I use the course thread ones a lot. Not really for woodwork. But if knocking something together. I have never had them fail because I don't use them past their ability
100% correct, you can get drywall screws is various lengths and sizes.
They make them in in #6, #8, and #10 (supposedly #12 as well, but I've never seen them). And given that sheer strength is proportional to the diameter of the shank, the greater the size the higher the sear strength.
You can also get them in various lengths from 3/4 to 5 inches. And Given that pull out strength is proportional to the amount of thread that is embedded into the substrate.
The longer the screw the more pull out strength.
So when people attach something with the cheapest #6 x 3/4" drywall screws that they can buy, and then complain about drywall screws being weak, well what the Fuck are they talking about?
If the drywall screws are brittle it may be cause they did not go through a stress relieving or drawing back operation after heat treatment. If they are heat treated at all anyway. Plus when these screws are made the threads are not cut. They are rolled. That introduces alot of stresses into the material. One problem I think that crops up with drywall screws is that the cordless drills we all use now can simply put out too much torque. Actual drywall screw drivers probably put out a torque value suited to construction grade pine to suit the application.
You have a very euphonious natural voice, Mr Nubs.
It makes it very easy to listen to a 16-minute long video... about screws!
What I know is that I will do almost anything to avoid the use of an actual screwdriver, and I want to use my amazing De Walt impact driver (usually on the foolproof setting of "1") to drive all screws. This means I just pass right over anything that isn't a square drive. Star-Drive screws are very uncommon in NZ, and Philips/Posidrive screws are highly likely to torque out, or require too much pushing to prevent damaging the screwhead.
The story of the history of screws is absolutely amazing, and goes hand in hand with the introduction of mass manufacture. And the quality of screws has improved dramatically since I was a kid. I hate to think how many times I injured myself using straight-head screws, or how many times I wrecked a Philips screw head.
The everbilt screws may be the most expensive, but anyone who has bought them quickly learns their price isn’t set to match quality, but simply to rip off the average home owner looking for screws for a small project. When you throw them out of the running, I see from your tests a pretty direct relationship between performance and cost (which matches my experience). In the end one learns to match different screws to the project at hand. This was helpful.
I find sheer strength to be a crucial factor, and wish you had spent more time on that. For instance I’ve found SPAXs to be fairly brittle and GRKs to bend almost like a nail- I tested them by slowly bending a butt joint rather than by a high impact hammer blow.
Thanks.
Yes a sheer test would have been nice to see. Maybe next time
I do love it when you drop the emperical evidence. So much better than "common knowledge". Thanks for sharing!
I recently started using Deckmate screws in my woodshop projects. I think after a year or so of using them, I'm on the same T25 bit in my driver, whereas I can't tell you how many philips bits I've gone through over the years. That said, they don't come in many sizes so I like to keep a stock of those zinc steel jobbies in 1/4" increments. This was really fascinating and informative though. Thanks!
Phillips is the worst head out there imo
@@mgelliott86 worse than slotted?
@@incognitotorpedo42 just barely
Been watching more and more of your videos. Thanks a bunch!
As a Canadian, I am impressed with the Robertson Drywall screw, often it is the only Phillips head you run into on a project; Interesting!
A Robertson head on a drywall screw seems like such bad design as they'd be less likely to cam out from the bit of the screw gun consistently/at proper depth? If I could erase Philips from existence I absolutely would except for drywall screws only
Robertson heads are tapered and do cam out. Not as easily as a Phillips heads, but I had the Robertson head cam out several times in these tests while the Torz heads never did.
I love Robertson screws but you need to make sure that you quality screws and bits if not they can slip when driving the screws. It's the only screws that you can put on the driver bit and point it at the ground and it won't fall off
I actually watched to the end - no mean feat when the video is about screws. I’m going to gradually replace my regular shiny steel screws with GRK. You did it again: added to my knowledge in an interesting and comprehensive way, James. Thanks again.
Like a lot of things it depends on the application. I use a lot of common head brass screw in furniture projects and carefully drill a tapered hole, a clearance bore for the shank and a countersink. Clearly not the strongest or fastest fastener but that’s how it’s done. It works just fine, can last for generations and it’s what people expect to see.
Be careful with thlse sctews as they cause cancer.
thanks again, for your thoroughness, and objectivity.
I never realized screws are so specific to their own limited application, but it makes a ton of sense. It explains why all the rope swing platforms i built as a teenager would always suddenly collapse with someone standing on it instead of the wood gradually cracking apart.
James. Love your analysis. Always fair and unbiased. Most importantly though is your thoroughness. I always, always, always learn something new. Excellent.
Drywall screws are great. I have used them for thousands of projects over the last 30 years. Yeah they can be brittle, and yeah they can snap if you go bonkers with an impact driver, but if you are normal person with normal reflexes, you won't have that problem. Always use the coarse thread for woodworking. They can't be used for ANYTHING in a high humidity area such as outdoors or in a bathroom, but other than that, they are great. If you need something stronger, I usually go to coated deck screws, which are great also, but more expensive. Don't listen to the purist naysayer nonsense. Too many cranky old men in the woodworking channels.
I'm totally guilty of using drywall screws. Depending on the project of course. Some things call for spec. I got ahold of some screws that are said to have a shear strength similar to nails. I've never tested them to see if the claims on the box are true or not though.
Have you ever picked up a sheet of drywall??? Do you actually understand what it takes for a couple of those screws to secure it well enough to continue fastening the thing to the wall???
Don't knock those little bastards!!! They're tougher than a LOT of people think. They're NOT always the "right answer" in a project, and pilot-holes DO tend to make just about everything better when they're feasible... BUT there's nothing inherently wrong with a solution to a screwy problem using drywall screws in part or whole.
...AND I'll stick by that exposition. ;o)
For high humidity or moist environments I've found that even the outdoor or deck screws I've tried eventually corrode badly. It's worse yet with the pressure treated woods after they got rid of the arsenic and added more copper maybe 20 years ago. I'm now willing to pay the significantly higher price for stainless screws. As a bonus, they'll bend a lot more before they break, much like a nail.
@@benz-share9058 You can still get paraffin wax in blocks fairly cheap... and the wax helps protect the screw as much as it helps lubricate putting it in... It's not perfect, but it can definitely prolong lasting power, in case you're either stuck with some old ones, or end up with the old ones again...
The wax also helps with a variety of tools and surfaces, especially protecting metal surfaces that regularly rub against wood... from the "table" of your table-saw (and the under-side of your circular saw) to the sole of hand-planes and a fair variety of others... Just rub the wax on rather like a giant crayon... or for screws, press down sideways with one finger and roll or twist to gouge in and coat the screw with the thumb and forefinger of the other hand...
In certain applications, it can help with nails, too... cheap and a single block can last years... depending on your regularity at the craft. ;o)
@gnarth d'arkanen interesting. I haven't heard this one yet. Paraffin should be hard enough not to affect the finishing process. How does it stand against wood pitch clogging up saw teeth and the general area around the table top?
Excellent video, like many others here, I’ve used drywall screws on hundreds of projects I just learned pre-drilling works best with them and can’t beat the value👍
The only problem with drywall screws is when joining two pieces of wood they must be held tight together while driving the screw. If there is a gap, the drywall screw might not pull them together. Otherwise I use them all the time.
There are drywall screws with non-threaded last portion just like deck screws, they are made for the same reason, like attaching wood to a stud through drywall, or even to pull the drywall sheet closer to the stud. However, they are not as amazing as they sound, the combination of being more brittle and the fact that the threads protrude more than regular screws meaning they require use of more torque, means they snap quite often, especially if you use long ones.
You could drill a larger hole in the top piece and then the screw should still be able to pull them together. We can compensate for the lack of a smooth shaft with graded pilot holes
Usually when I am using drywall screws I’m doing something fast and easy. With those types of projects are structural and will be painted or otherwise hidden.
Gary Lambert, that is hardly the ONLY problem with drywall screws......
Drive in compressed, reverse, recompress and driver through. Or use a clamp to start with.
This is the reason I subscribe to this channel. Real world tests and usable information. Thanks!
A little late to this show but in regards to screw brittleness, it is easy enough to make a quantitative determination of how shear loads affect the screw. Drive the screws into a board to an equal depth or until the last thread has just sunk into the wood. Clamp the board in a vise so the screws are horizontal. Apply weight, hang a weighted chain from the screw and add known weight until fracture. That will give you a number relatively close to the actual shear load the screw can resist before bending and or failing. The point where bending occurs would realistically be the point where usefulness of the screw ends as it has yielded. (Deformation changes from elastic to plastic)
over the years of making various things i have found the GRK has worked for me every time .. no matter what I'm making ..
Great video! One thing I would point out is that you've done an excellent job of measuring the torsional forces which break screws, but these might very well be different from the shear forces the screws can withstand. So while a particular screw might be weaker than others against torsion along its central axis, it might be significantly stronger than others across its cross section and may provide greater resistance to pull out.
Also, drywall screws tend to have micro metal shavings on them, which often get embedded in fingers. Very difficult to extract! I've never experienced this with other types of screws.
SO TRUE! I lost count of the number of times I could feel a splinter in my finger but wasn't able to physically see it. I just blindly tweezed all the skin in the surrounding area in hopes that I got it out, lol.
You're right. If I'm not mistaken, screws are manufactured via a thread rolling process, which is a cold forming process that induces an increase in strength and reduction in ductility (work hardening, it's also called) in the portion of the cross section that undergoes plastic deformation. Since this hardening is not present across the entire section, the process that started with a material, such as low or mid carbon steel, that is considered to be isotropic in resisting stresses and ends up with a fastener that doesn't behave in the same manner when stressed across different planes.
One of your best videos yet! We love you Stumpy
Interesting. I would say that I rarely drive a screw without drilling a pilot hole first. As I build my new bench and shelves in my new shop, drywall screws with pilot holes is probably the way I will go. Thanks, James.
25 years ago I was watching a video produced by Norm Abrams. He said dry wall screws are my favorite screws. They are sharp and are good for most projects I work on. Over the years I have have used them on many of my projects. Yes I have many other screws for projects. But dry wall screws are my favorite. Thanks for another great video!
The newer version of the Grip Rite prime guard plus are pretty awesome. They have pretty much all of the “features” of these plus a couple extra ones, not sure if they are gimmicks or actual improvements. Picked up 50# at Lowe’s for under $150, they are usually quite a bit more than that. You can run them right through a 4x4 if you wanted. The GRK construction lag / screws are pretty excellent as well.
great video drywall screws work great use them all the time never had any problem
Get your head straight. Get in the group think
I notice that the issue of fine threads, designed/intended for hardwoods, versus course threads, intended/designed for softwood, isn't addressed. Both are available in sheetrock screws, though the finger threads are intended for metal studs, not hardwood. I'd like to see this addressed in a video.
I'd like to see a comparison with machine bolts w/tapped wood threads too. I've found them to be surprisingly strong, as long as they are used cross-grain.
Stump, you're the best. Knowledge, and stuff that's really good to know.
For attaching faceplates to bowl blanks, I have found the GRK are by far the best by far. The zinc plated wood screws snap. I've snapped deck screws as well. The GRK can be used over and over without wearing out.
Preachin the truth🙏! Anybody in the trades that says different is either a liar or a sales rep. I use drywall screws 95% ott (and deckmates for the rest).
I’m wondering whether trying plated wood screws from a different supplier might yield different results. I drive a great many of them at work and they rarely snap off. Of course, I’m not driving them into hardwood without pilot holes, but usually into plywood without pilot holes. As for cost, if you use enough of one size (1 1/4” for instance) then buying them at a supplier of fasteners rather than a hardware or big box store can save a lot of money. They usually have significant price breaks for quantity, dropping significantly at 1,000+, 3,000+, and so on.
And the quality is far better
I'm no longer making much since moving to an apartment, sadly. I've never made anything that needed the strength and for many years didn't have a drill. Therefore, using a hammer and small nail, that's the pilot hole. Then using the screwdriver, I usually close drywall or decking screws that had the largest threads. And above all, using a bar of soap on the threads. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with me about all things in the shop. Who knows... maybe someday I'll be able to put on my nice leather tool belt again. Stay safe ,Vickie
I always go for GRK when I can. They are pretty stupid proof especially when you can’t keep an eye on the boys. Also they have some sizes that are so excellent for building wooden retaining walls and the like that you can save an insane amount of time because you don’t have to pre-drill and deal with bent or broken 10” garden spikes nearly as much. However they are very expensive so don’t forget a $700 box on your tailgate and go for a 5 mile drive. (My general contractor lost his mind when he realized he did this. 🤣)
That’s enough to make you want to cry 😂
I'm sure they did a good job turning all season tires into studded tires too.
LOL
Thats what I call getting screwed.
That confirms why I hate zinc plated screws so much. Since I always drill pilot holes in hardwood, I will spend less on screws to put it on nice boards and tools. Thank you very much for this comparison. I liked it A LOT!
@@gnic76 12” long screws with heads the size of nickels are going to do much worse then puncture tires. We went looking but he forgot about them for 5 hours so it was long cleaned up or some lucky person found a busted box and collected a huge prize.
Great job Nubs , best video I have seen about screws. Uh , the only one.
I use spax mostly. I think you should spend a little more time on how to use the clutch as I have snapped off the head of a lot of drywall screws when I over torqued the screw.
Not the video you wanted, but the video you need.thank you for this
I used GRK on my first woodworking project. Everytime I've tried it had to use other types, even GRK adjacent brands, ive always been underwhelmed or straight frustrated.
I always have drywall screws to use in a pinch. Great side by side comparison. Thanks James!
I’ve snapped lots of the yellow “deck” wood screws. And they weren’t used in applications that over stressed the screws.
I used to have that issue with my ryobi drill. Buddy of mine said to try his Milwaukee and it never happened again
I think you need the speed to get those screws in without a pilot hole otherwise you end up bending the shank and snapping them
If you check out Project Farm’s vid he said the grk and spax were basically the best “yellow deck screw”
I bought a big box of drywall screws about 20 years ago, and I've been using them for all sorts of indoor purposes since then. I like that they are so easy to drive.
People tend to forget one important things about drywall screws.... They are meant to fasten drywall to WOOD. The "drywall" in the name simply means they are designed to minimize damage to the drywall. They still provide secure fastening to the wooden studs in your walls.
Thanks James , your tests are excellent ,accurate and practical. You have often saved me money and disappointment as well. I will continue to check out your opinions because you are committed to the truth and being the best that you can be .😊
6:55 I don't doubt your test results with 1.25" screws. The same test with 2" or 2.5" screws though would show those Drywall screws snapping from twist. I know, because it happens regularly. Drywall screws are spec'd for pine.
But the point was to compare screw features, not to see what length of screw will hold up in hard maple.
@@StumpyNubs But to do a true comparison it just can't be between 1 screw length. Gee, science...with very little science.
@@Theexplorographer Actually, it can. To compare two items you simply subject the examples to equal conditions and observe their reactions. If a 1-1/4" drywall screw is aprox. 25% weaker than a 1-1/4" Spax screw when both are driven into 3/4 maple, it stands to reason a 3" drywall screw will also be aprox. 25% weaker than a 3" Spax screw when both are driven into 2" maple.
@@StumpyNubs to compare screw features is a valid reason to create a video, but to state that drywall screws are better in the title is misleading. Drywall screws are better, to fasten drywall to studs, but definitely not much else (they are oil coated to prevent rust and are threaded to the head which is ok for the soft core of drywall but will get threadbound in wood without a pilot hole) Deck screws are designed and work best to fasten deck boards, particle board screws for cabinets, etc... Good concept to this video but I think you weren't as thorough as you usually are.
@@stevenvachon9745 The title says they proved better than my most expensive wood screws. That is absolutely true. The most expensive screws in the test failed miserably in 15 out of 15 examples.
Very enlightening. I had no idea there were so many different types of screws out there. Thanks for sharing your test and results.
Very interesting : ) But, the heads spinning off of drywall screws only increases with length. This is why I never use them for anything other than...drywall, where their narrow shaft and bugle head excel! Furthermore, they rust through far more quickly than construction screws. Of all of the screws you tested, I use them all, except the zinc, wood screws. I agree, I have not found a good use for them. However, all of the others have jobs applications where they excel : )
In any woodworking project the first question is what is the screw being used for. Purists aside screws do have their place*. If the screw is out of sight there are screws made for that. If the screw is in sight then it is usually being used to attach a metal accessory such as a drawer pull used on period style chests.
*One reason I think the purist mentality reigns so much is what I like to call the "Fine Woodworking Effect". Yes they feature some amazing projects. But for the vast majority of hobbiests it is far above what they are actually going to be be working on.
I'm a big fan of GRKs entire line of screws. I've never tried Spax brand of screws, mainly because I'm so happy with the GRKs performance. Nothin that I've tried comes close. They drive easier than most other screw brands and they hold tighter. And the torx drive on the screws are so well machined that I almost never get a strip out. I'm a professional carpenter of 40yrs.
you mean we are screwed?
Just wanted to comment and say thanks for your time sir. I know that was a lot of work, filming and editing. Keep at it, I can’t wait to congratulate you on a million subs!
I like your videos a lot, but this test seems to be missing a key feature: You expect to determine how different screws perform, by simply driving them into a single piece of wood.. But this is not a real world situation; screws are always used to join two things together. And in the midst of that, a screw behaves a lot differently.
We always teach our apprentices to never rely on the clutch feature, in fact to never use it at all. When working in construction settings, the reason for wanting to use the clutch often derives from working with materials that must not be perforated by fasteners, lest their integrity be forfeit. But in a construction environment the wood that you fasten into is usually exposed to shifting temperatures & climates, causing it to be different levels of moist/dry & soft/hard.
The integrity of the wood underneath determines how far a screw will bore into a surface, when joining two pieces of material together and if that is just a little unreliable, the clutch really does more harm than good.
Ones trigger-finger must be the real clutch, since that is the only reliable aid to making sure screws are fastened properly, that and a measure of focus on the task at hand. - And like you said, pilot holes are always a good idea, when necessary.
Thank you for good content,
Kind Regards
I acknowledged that this is not a real world situation, and explained why I selected these particular tests to highlight specific screw features.
@@StumpyNubs Yeah, that seems to have been overlooked by some. It is hard to "test" and derive some valid data unless you go to extremes. Well, that or make the video 5 or 6 decades long. LOL
Thanks for the video. I used 3 inch drywall screws to install kitchen cabinets 35 years ago. I predrilled and countersunk the holes. “Knock on wood” everything is still in its place.
Did you forget about application? You won’t frame a house with screws on account of brittleness of screws. Maybe the expensive screws are made with flexibility in mind?
A well thought out experiment. You've covered every aspect and characteristic of each type. Also, excellent views and narration, very easy to watch and listen to.
I started out using deck screws for EVERYTHING, but in the last few years I switched to the GRK. I highly recommend them.
As a retired mechanical engineer I really appreciate the data driven reports you do. Thanks muchly.
I inadvertently discovered drywall screws a few years ago. I liked the geometry of the screws and their gripping ability. Your testing seems to validate my personal experience. Thanks!
Great video! Well designed, excellent narration. Thanks a bunch.
Excellent demonstration! Thank you, sir
Nicely done, and expertly presented.
Thank you Stumpy for yet another superbly informative, and scientifically thought out video on my favorite activity.
I built my first boat using drywall screws to hold the parts in place while the epoxy-fiberglass joints cured with the intention of pulling them out after the cure. Too many times the heads broke off while trying to extract them. I think I mostly used 2" or 1-5/8" screws for this assembly, which are a little longer than your test screws, therefore more likely to break off. Of course the cured epoxy also gripped the screws. My cohort boat-builders warned me to never use them because of this, and any screw or nail left in a boat is likely to rust and lead to premature rot and other degradation. There was a time when so many heads broke off that I continued using a soldering iron to melt the epoxy and successfully extracted the rest of them. now I prefer some kind of exterior screws for almost everything even non-marine projects, simply because they are less likely to lose their heads. And drywall screws WILL rust.
Thanks, I have used cheap black drywall screws for indoor projects, never outdoors, for 48 years and never had a failure. many shelves 2' x 8' plywood and 2 x 4 holding hundreds of pounds. The shelves in my shed hold bags of fertilizer, mulch, concrete, sand. I always bore a pilot hole.
I understand the benefit of these different types of screws.
When I make furniture I like to stick with time tested joinery.
Quite often no metal is necessary to make sure it will be around one hundred years from now.
My earliest pieces are half way there.
Putting up a hand rail is definitely different.
Geometry of screws leads me to tested results.
When I am screwing hinges to cabinets shearing the screws is not my concern.
Is the screw shoulder match the hinge.
Is the flathead ninety or 80 degrees?
If the does not match then it will have play and lead to failure.
I worked in a tool room in a fabricating shop.
It’s a very long topic.
Thanks for bringing it up.
Great test on the screws, thank you for sharing this with us today from Henrico County Virginia, have a great weekend
Excellent. I enjoy your articulate explanations. Thank you for including information for people who don't have all the specialized tools. Very well done.
Great information James. I will start using drywall screws for more non structural projects.
This is really thorough testing, great job
I learned a lesson today about screws. Thank you.
Wonderful experimentation and information. Thanks!
Great tests James. This information will be very helpful when it comes time for me to buy more screws. Thanks.
Thanks very much for doing this side by side comparison. There are several useful lessons here, from heads coming off the plated screws, to a LOT of splitting with drywall screws. All very useful stuff to know.
Thanks. A lot of people don't bother to listen to the whole video before focusing their comments on just the title. If they did, they would learn a lot :)
@@StumpyNubs I always click "like" on your videos before watching them, because I know your information will be good, useful, concise, and clear. I not only watch and listen to the whole video, I usually read most of the comments before posting because there's no need for me to chime in if somebody else has already made the point.
Now, for something completely different: It may just be me getting older and more interested in comfort, but over the last 3 months the trike riding weather here in Eugene has been in short supply. Looks like you guys are getting hammered. Still getting out? Hi to your dad.
@@mikecurtin9831 I don't ride when it's salty in the winter, or wet in the spring because it makes a mess of the expensive trike. Usually get some riding in in late April, but not regularly until after the may rain stops. When it's really hot in July or August I may do less, as well. But my dad (he rides a 2-wheeler) loves the heat.
Thanks for the information James, great job explaining the differences and showing them too. Keep up the good work, Fred.