King's QUESTROSPECTIVE - How Roberta Williams Designed A Game Changer
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ส.ค. 2024
- Today I am defending the CLASSIC computer game King's Quest I: Quest for the Crown, and Roberta Williams's quest-tionable design choices!
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Graham seems like a weakling in this game until you realize that he can kill a dragon with a frickin' dagger.
Well, to be fair, the VGA version shows him throw the dagger into the dragon's throat and the dragon choke to death. So it was really more a result of Graham's clever thinking, rather than toughness.
There's something we've evolved out of in King's Quest game design. King's Quest requires you to be familiar with external literature via fairy tales, if you aren't familiar with them you don't have all the pieces to the puzzle. It's long been the standard to put all information you need in the game itself to make it a self-contained experience. Riddle of the Sphinx even includes the entire book of Numbers from the bible (or a later re-release includes the entire King James version). If you're used to that concept (which a modern gamer very much is), you're going to get frustrated at King's Quest.
Oh yeah, it's so hard to get yourself a fairy tale book... (Coming from the German guy, who grew up with the Grimms like everyone else over here)
I don't think it's about "so hard" to get the information, but about the fact that not everyone has the same frame of reference for things or the same exposure to the same media. It's like that one xkcd comic xkcd.com/1053/ For every thing "everyone knows" by the time they're adults, there's at least *ten thousand* encountering it for the first time every day.
Imagine, through a fluke of circumstance or the choice of your parents or both, that you'd somehow never encountered a fairy tale at all ever before playing King's Quest. It's not something you're born knowing, it's something you discover through the culture around you (or not, as the case may be), and sometimes people fall through the cracks.
Putting all the pieces in the game itself means that even the people who don't have that information from external means *still have the required information to complete the game.* And maybe they learn something new and exciting from it.
You still get games relying on outside knowledge sometimes but it's rarely plot-necessary these days. I recently had to pass my housemate a d6 *in real life* to help them with a video game (with the mechanics of a single item in a roguelike so, you know, low stakes), because not everyone knows what you get when you flip a d6 upside down for any given number. It may be common knowledge that opposite sides add up to 7 but again, *at least* 10000 people learning it for the first time *every day* and some of them will learn it from this one video game.
Although if you *want* external knowledge as a requirement, try Fez, good luck completing it without a guide if you don't understand cube nets already. (I used a spoiler-free guide so I just got "cube nets" as a search suggestion with no context, rather than the actual solution.) Also good luck completing it on PC without a list of Xbox controls, although that's more like putting the solution in the game manual that not everyone keeps or even has if they got it any way other than new-in-box (cough new in xbox).
The point is, it's about *not unfairly penalising* people for lacking knowledge they wouldn't know they'd need.
@@fermintenava5911 that's the thing though isn't it. Not everyone has the chance to be born in Europe and hear all these very euro centric fairy tales growing up. Every country and every culture has different fairy tales and fables, other cultures don't have a Christian culture but a Muslim one, or a Hindu one etc. So for someone playing the game for the first time in say India, they're immediately at a huge disadvantage
I don't think that's bad game design, I think if you know what you're in for before you play these old adventure games then you'll be OK with the strange esoteric puzzles. However, The secret of monkey Island was such a popular and revolutionary adventure game because it turned all of these tropes of adventure game design on their head. It made a joke at one point that's like a cruel unexpected surprise death just like in the Sierra games, but then says "only joking" and you're not dead and you continue on with the game. So some people like the really difficult adventure games in the Sierra style and some like the more user friendly LucasArts style of games like secret of monkey Island. Again as long as you know beforehand what kinda game it is, you'll have a better and less frustrating time
I'll always remember Hugo's House of Horrors requiring you to know the name of a dog from a TV show that was so old, my dad didn't even know what it was referencing. And it was required knowledge to progress, and unlike the King's Quest games, it wasn't even thematic to the damn thing!
Back in the day, due to my dyslexia I could never fully get into games that relied on correct spelling. Your genuine love and nostalgia for it gives me jealousy ;)
holy cow mr Noble i never expected to run into you on a roses video. now i am twice as happy. also awesome job on the video roses
I am the same, my dyslexia can be so frustrating in these games but I still get very involved with them
I am now ten times happier than I was before looking in this comment section because one of my favorite content creators commented on another one of my favorite content creators videos! Much love for you, Dom, and much love for you, Roses!
Thanks for going into such detail on how Roberta Williams came up with all this stuff. I've heard her mentioned as an insane puzzle designer before but it was great to get the backstory on how she got into gaming and why she liked those impossible puzzles so much. 😄👍
it's interesting pushing up roses should do more adventure games
I just love how happy the game/narrator/Roberta is for you when you figure out the rumplestiltskin puzzle. "That's right!!! You've guessed it!!"
I honestly wasn’t expecting Roberta Williams’ story about falling in love with adventure games to be so heartwarming and relatable (I also turned to storytelling as a means to deal with feeling lonely as a child). I’m really glad that she was not only able to tell her own stories, but also that she was able to inspire others to make their own, and share that love of narrative and adventure games with so many people.
King’s quest IV will always hold a special place in my heart. My dad started playing in 1989 when I was 4 years old. I had never seen a female heroine! Rosella you are so beautiful and brave!
Then, my dad passed away from cancer. My mom and I took over the game, figured out all the puzzles, called the cheat lines (occasionally) and eventually beat it. That game is my life and one of the happiest memories I have. Thank you for reminding me💗
"Save early. Save often." Words I live by to this day. Or try to at least. Sometimes my hubris gets the best of me and I generally pay for it later.
Roberta's story is inspiring, really makes me want to get in and fight for my dreams. I really admire her.
I'd love a movie about Roberta. Like it's part fantasy when exploring her imagination, and then it ties into the drama of her real life, going back and forth from fantasy to reality.
Halt & Catch Fire (the AMC show) is probably the closest we'll ever get to a dramatization of computer & game design from the early to late 80s. It was an absolute ratings flop given the niche target audience but AMC actually renewed it 3 times because of the stellar writing, acting, & cinematography banking on long term profitably on the streaming market. Not sure how that's working out for them so I doubt we'll ever see another show like it but I'm glad we got to enjoy what was produced.
I didn't know about this! Thank you so much, I'll defiantly check it out.
A movie about someone that's so introverted that she relies on her husband for income, neglects her children to play bad adventure games, and fills her games full of obtuse puzzles that no one will get? Sure, that would be a great movie
That would be so good!
I played through all of "Peasant's Quest" on Homestar Runner before realising it was a homage to this series. Always wanted to play all of them at some point since.
I don’t think I ever played this one... maybe a remake? I would not have guessed using a backwards alphabet in a million years.
Fantastic video! Always happy to see a new adventure game analysis from you.
I played the popular remake from a few years after the original. They remade it in VGA with better coding once the technology was available.
@@Sam_on_TH-cam The VGA remake was an unofficial fan version from the same people who did the unofficial remake of King's Quest II.
@@Dimensiom I was remembering wrong. What I played was the release she showed here.
Did they further confuse that puzzle by actually making it his name backwards in the EGA remake?
@@actionvestadventure As I understand, both the original puzzle solution and just the name backwards were valid solutions in the remake.
I totally understand how Roberta feels, I've spent hundreds of hours in games like Dragon Age origins trying to discover hidden endings and conversation options and as a programmer I always test the boundaries of what is possible vs what the designer expects you to do. Conversely, I curse cryptic convoluted contrivances.
What an awesome retrospective. You never fail to entertain and inform.
Infotain
So many childhood memories. Always loved those games, though I'd get frustrated when my joystick would jam up and I'd end up running off the side of a mountain. I was bad about saving games back then. Years later I'd be able to beat the game in about 20 minutes or less.
Space Quest and Police Quest were other Sierra games I loved and played to death.
I at least applaud you for your taste in anime. IDOLM@STER is awesome.
We used to get those clue books with the marker that would reveal clues. And they had the one for King's Quest 2 I think about "Did you find the giant turtle?" and then the next clue was "Just kidding, there is no giant turtle". Trolling me even after paying for help, thanks Sierra.
The only one of those I ever had was for Space Quest 3 and it was full of trick questions, meant to discourage readers from using the book to cheat. Like "I've found the time door key, but it needs batteries. Where can I find them?" Or "Space slugs have attached themselves to my forehead! Now what?!"
This kinda feels like Defunctland's Jim Henson episodes (in a very good way). Roberta Williams was a great writer, and she deserves more credit.
I think the more recent negative reception of Roberta's design is mostly a sign of a general shift in perspective on the purpose and merit of video games and what it means to have fun with games.
Back in those pioneer days the fun was in playing. It didn't matter what you could achieve through playing, which I believe was at least to some degree due to the relative novelty of it all. Even if you completely and utterly failed at playing the game, you still experienced what was a technological marvel back then in action.
Today, with video games and the technologies that make them possible so normalized, that isn't a factor that brings enjoyment anymore. Video games don't just have to function, you need to be able to win as well in order to feel good about it.
While I would personally never like to play one of those early games, because I know I would suck at them without cheating, it's still kind of sad that this aspect of them is now completely lost to us. We can't see the piece of art that they once were by merit of being pioneers, because to us, in an environment so flooded with at least technologically vastly superior games that we take for granted, they seem irrelevant. Because we've forgotten where it all originated.
Yeah! You mansplain away
That's a good point. I remember an anecdote about how people were blown away in the early text adventure days by the mere fact that they could drop an item, and then it would still be there when they came back. The idea of a world that responded to you, sometimes in a complex way, rather than just "push button shoot mans", was impressive enough to be worth the frustration. And judging by the response to AI Dungeon, it's still possible to achieve that same reaction, so long as you crank that complexity up to absurd levels.
I think you have the right idea, remembering back to when I played games on machines like Atari 800 and early DOS titles, I rarely even finished the games and I didn't care. It was just a joy to explore the rules, mechanics and challenges games offered, not mainly to beat them but to PLAY.
I kinda keep this mentality to this day - when I tend to lose interest the moment I discover everything about the games setting/rules/ mechanics and all there is left is to beat it, so I am usually done with modern games like three quarters through (yea, my game's library must be a completionist's nightmare :) ).
That's so true. I used to play demo versions of games I got free with magazines over and over just for the fun of playing even though you could never progress past a certain point because it was only a demo.
@@stevethepocket This is totally true. There was a real escapism where you could come up with ideas and the game would respond to it when you never thought it would. I remember trying to stump games, particularly sierra and definitely Infocom, where you could type in things, and see how far you could push the game to give you a response other than "I don't know what you mean by that". It was such a strange and powerful 1-on-1 relationship you had with the game itself. I still could describe every screenshot in some of those late 80's/90's games after all the exploring/immersion I put myself through. And while modern games are of course beautiful and brilliantly designed in their own right, I don't think you quite get that now.
I loved king's quest and police quest as a kid. Seeing this video brought up a lot of memories ty.
Roberta Williams was one of my childhood heroes and I remember when KQ1 debuted. She was the one that told me stories at night. I’m forever grateful to her.
I'm excited to see this review. Especially with your love of Sierra games
I just have to say that I've never been a gamer, I've barely seen any Murder She Wrote or Golden Girls, and I have no knowledge of most of your specific references, yet I enthusiastically watch everything you make as soon as I see it. You have such great commentary and a wonderful sense of humor, always pulling me in and investing me in the topic of the video with your writing. Thank you for making such excellent content! It's a treat whenever you upload! (Also, I have a parrot and that makes us blood brothers or something.)
The 'trying everything possible' mentality reminds me a lot of Untitled Goose Game- a game which has goals, but is also enjoyable to play as a sandbox, seeing what you can interact with and what all you can do with those items.
Sounded like a character from Daria going " But Roses....etc etc" I am ok with that
"No, Sandy!"
Save early and often!! hehehe These games made me a compulsive saver until today... I cannot cope with Checkpoints because of it :P
Does anyone but me want to see Roses do KQ8? If for no other reason than to see her point out how much and why she hates it?
NO I AM THINKING “ROSES. WHY AREN’T YOU DOING DAILY VIDEOS on the KING’S QUEST SERIES?” In all seriousness though 😍 I love you and thank you for the upload and now I have to restart the video!
We're finally covering the original! Yay!
Thank you for the ❤️, roses
Great review!!!
Roberta Williams's story reveals some really interesting stuff about introversion, storytelling, and healing.
I was just about to gloat how you missed a fairy tale reference with the goat and then you went and corrected your past self. Dang it.
King's Quest 💖
I really love the games of this series, but I love it way more, to hear you talk about it.
Thank you for the flashback. :-)
You release Murder She Wrote videos and I find myself watching reruns again. You remind me of my days with Kings Quest and I dive down an adventure game rabbit hole. Damn you voodoo woman. Get out of my head...Entertaining as always.
I don't think younger generations can ever truly appreciate how revolutionary King's Quest was. I had a PC in the early 80s, and loved the ASCII adventure games and arcade games with rudimentary graphics. The King's Quest 1 graphics were jaw dropping. Maybe only Doom elicited a similar reaction in terms of technological leaps. As to the Gnome's name puzzle, I agree it receives unfair criticism. My father figured it out in a single evening. Besides, if you fail to guess his name, you're given an alternate path to the chest that while worth fewer points, is less precarious.
Yay, new Roses!!!
I always love these little slices of wholesomeness and super nerding.
10:00 I wonder how tempted Roberta Williams was to reuse the "with what, your bare hands?" puzzle from Advent.
Hey PushingUpRoses, everyone here.
I decided today is finally the day to tell you that you are awesome.
I very much like the AGD remake. It’s how I was able to play it. It’s beautiful and I love the story. The puzzles were hard but nothing that a little walkthrough couldn’t help.
Roses I just want you to know I am really happy you have returned to games. I have been hoping you would finish your Quest For Glory series. So this makes me somewhat hopeful.
KQ IV was the first video game adventure I played from beginning to end. Granted, it took me several years, but I did it. Then I went back and did the first three. The series will always have a very special place in my heart. More so because I can’t play traditional video games any longer due to blindness. I am so glad you went back to cover this one.
I listen to playthroughs of KQVI sometimes to relax, and I loved playing them through once I'd gotten the Companion (which I loved reading on its own). I never got more than a few of the puzzles on my own, but I love the stories. Thank you for defending the classic game that started it all and for sharing more about Roberta!
My dad still has his Pc Jr. We played so much King’s Quest on it, along with Sierra Christmas Card every Christmas. He eventually brought me the King’s Quest collection for Christmas. Best Christmas gift ever.
I'm disappointed by the complete lack of Trogdor in this video game.
Trogdor grew out of the shame of that miniscule wingaling dragon. Killed by tiny dagger or else neutered his _Burination_ with a just little water.
In fairness, exploring a burninated countryside would be kind of boring. I could see how a game dev would exclude it just because you couldn't hide anything there or make puzzles...because of the burninating, you know?
@@ItDoesntMatterReally I can't tell if you're making a joke or if you really haven't played Peasant's Quest, so here I am, risking the humiliation of an "r/whooosh" to tell you to go and play it!
@@amandacapsicum686 I was making a joke, but I do appreciate the recommendation so no harm no foul.
A little consolation -- Did sound like... maybe? ... a Homestar Runner sound effect at 2:08, with the flags.
You know what I like? Your approach to videos has changed, noticeably, to you talking about something in a way that makes YOU happy. You can totally tell you’re having fun and it’s awesome that you have so much joy to share with us over these topics. Thanks!
Best thing about your King’s Quest uploads is discovering how many others enjoyed them. In the years before I had internet I thought I was the only one who owned Sierra Games! Everyone else played the classic consoles.
Waiting for the day we get a Murder, She Wrote adventure game.
Thank you for spotlighting this. This was a HUGE part of my childhood. I got an IBM PC Jr. because of this game in 1987. As short as it is with cheats, it took a year or two at least to complete it without the quick Google searches we have today. I've recently gone back to play other titles produced by Sierra On-Line as of recent and they were just the best games ever. Even to this day they hold up, especially played as a family.
I really liked this video, my grandparents had the only PC in the family back in the 80's and I remember spending so much time playing Sierra games. I always loved the story of the Williams, a husband wife team that went the distance and launched a dynasty. Such a cool environment to work on what you were passionate about in the redwood building out west. This Texas boy had stars in his eyes over the possibility of this being possible. I just find it to be sort of funny that Roberta made a fantasy about a king and princess and without even realizing it became that very king and queen of their own industry, in their own kingdom, in their own time. I'm done gushing but Sierra was something unbelievably rare and special. Thanks for doing this video I loved it.
I miss these old games. They were so great when I was younger and even my Dad that didn't like anything game related would help me with the tough puzzles. Always found it funny with the jokey death march music and Roberta Williams face "next time, BE MORE CAREFUL!" Great video.
Every so often I miss my youthful days spent playing KQVI and watch play throughs. OMG we got all mushy over King’s Quest on the same day this year. I saw one of your videos years back and here you are on my feed again. Thank you! 🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼
11:25 I assume you were going by memory on the expanded backstory, but Dahlia only steals the treasure chest. That random kleptomaniac dwarf and the sorcerer scammed the king from the other two. You don't get to dole out the same knightly justice on them however (except in the AGDI remake of King's Quest II).
Clicked for Roses stayed for the Quest.
YES!!! KING'S QUEST!!! Thank you SO SO SO much for covering my favorite game of my childhood!
I haven't even watched it and I already gave your video a like ~!
I've never clicked on a video so fast!!!! Love when you talk about KQ!!
Great video. I completely agree with your feelings for the game. The game makes me happy, even when it doesn't.
I continually enjoy your videos. Commenting for the algorithm.
I would love love love if you did one of these for Lori and Corey Cole, designers of Quest for Glory.
My favorite Roses content. Always great writing.
Loving the video, Roses!
My childhood consisted of trying & failing to play this game, with my dad's help needed to progress at all. I'm grateful for his nerdery. I grew so attached to the computer (with it being as old as I was... '85) that I moved the massive thing into my bedroom as a teenager, coveting the actually floppy floppy discs of King's & Space Quests, the Hitchhiker's Guide text adventure (pocket lint, y'all!), Snake, this wacky bootleg Dr. Who (with no graphics just a "W" for the Doctor & "D" for daleks who'd chase him around a primitive platformer) & that damned Prince of Persia.
Thanks for being you!
Thank you so much for remembering games like this. The Williams were amazing!
As a Norwegian, I am really happy to see that people know the "Three Billy Goats Gruff", even if it took a while :P We get so excited when people acknowledge our existence.
Three Billy Goats Gruff is actually surprisingly well known internationally, considering that the rest of the Norwegian fairytale canon is basically unknown. East of the Sun and West of the Moon is probably in second place, but far behind.
King's Quest 5 will always be in my heart. Everyone knew me as a Street Fighter 2 kid but many long summer nights were spent by myself playing as Graham in the kingdom of Daventry with a large bag of Twizzlers getting into countless situations as my sisters and my parents slept. Legend of Kyrandia too. You could talk about these games much more and you'd get no complaints from me.
I'm glad I found this channel. Great videos.
I also worked out his name back when I was a kid. I reckon kids just thought differently back in 80's. Word games and puzzles were far more prevalent back then. We didn't have computer games or the internet!
Save early, save often, and on multiple slots.
Haven't had any need for all the different slots I save in, in like 15 years, but I still do it.
Roses talking about adventure games (King's Quest specifically) is why I subscribed to this channel in the first place and this made me very happy.
I don't really know anything about Kings quest besides the stuff I've learned from watching your videos, but its really cool to learn about Roberta Williams and the work she did
Roberta Williams is one of my heroes of adventure gaming. And...i had a huge crush on her growing up. how could you not?
Omg! That's the computer I had, an IBM. I had this version of Kings Quest. You've filled in blanks in my memory. Thank you for this!!
Thanks so much for doing these videos. In my humble opinion you are the premier TH-camr for King's Quest retrospectives. These games mean a lot to me, mostly because I too had turmoil in my life as these games came out, and they are a part of who I am. Thank you for wonderfully capturing their memory, it really does mean a lot.
I love this series!!! Definitely part of my childhood, along with Freddy Pharkus and Quest for Glory! Thank you for the excellent retrospective!
Just wanted to say your reviews of adventure games are some of my favourite youtube videos of all time. I lost my dad too 3 years ago on May 8th 3 years ago so I feel your pain. Keep being wacky, nostalgic and informative and stay safe x
Great video, Roses! Not only does this make me respect Roberta a lot more, but it makes me respect the Brothers Chaps a lot more too. Peasant's Quest looks so similar to the first King's Quest game. They really did their homework.
A thing that I love in the first KQ game : there are different solutions to every puzzle, and you can definitely beat the game without guessing the gnome's name. If you fail, he gives you a key to open a stairway to the chest location, and if you don't bring anything of value in the stairs you can continue. You'll miss some points, but it is still a great game design, especially for the time.
I think if I'm DMing a D&D game, and a player thought to summon a goat (or maybe druid polymorph into one), I'd give them credit for it.
You must be kidding.
I'll get my goat... err, coat.
@@oz_jones Nice pun. Don't think I didn't notice the "kid"ding one. ;)
Thank you both so much for those puns - they may give us us that little nudge for our DM to allow it. Carrots for everyone!
Interesting how it is so heavily dependent on other fantasy literature. Someone outside of that region would have hard time with the game.
Also, Loved how you covered Roberta's story
Your channel makes me want to play the games I enjoyed as a kid like Outlaw, Jumpstart 1st Grade, Lenny's Music Tunes, and all my old Genesis games
I had the demo of Outlaw, and Lenny's Music Tunes takes me back, I got that game in a pack that had this Family Circus program.. And Doom.
@@TheMoogleMaster truth be told, I only had the demo for Outlaw too
That Quest for Glory 5 soundtrack in the background gave me nostalgic chills. What a great score.
Awesome! You've finally covered the whole series!
All the good ones.
Hey Roses! I found your channel while (nostalgically) looking for Sierra adventure game let's plays. These games played a big part of my love of narrative (and eventual going into art) and it's great to see a channel dedicated to this art form and the people who helped create it!
Been waiting for a video like this for awhile! Thank you!
Nice, a video game review thingy! It's been a while.
Zounds! It's here! I know these videos don't get as many views as some of your others, but they give me the very same cozy cabin feeling you describe playing them and while I was never patient or clever enough to complete any King's Quest game without the companion as a child, they remain one of my favorite sources of nostalgia. Now if only TH-cam would let you rig up the like button on your page with that sweet, sweet, KQ6 success jungle.
I have enjoyed your other types of reviews and am happy to see a return to classic video games. Nice to see Roberta get recognized too.
It is so good to see doing another Point&Click Adventure game review.
Liked the part that the riddles were supposed to think outside the box and not to torture the player.
Thank you for making this video!
For me it was Police Quest that got me into Sierra gaming. I could probably fire that game up today and get through it on memory and it's been years since I last played it. Good times. Keep up the awesome work Roses! :)
Well worth the wait! Love Sierra On-Line games.
Roberta Williams is definitely a childhood hero of mine. I played all the KQ games, and it was my first online registration with my shiny new 14.4 Kbps dialup modem.
Words i always live by, "Save early, save often!". Thanks Al Lowe! Very odd that i was just rewatching you and Paw the other day playing the VGA KQ III remake... And here is more KQ goodness.
Sierra is absolute GREATNESS!!!
So much of my teens and twenties were spent solving these games and dreaming of the day that I could work for Sierra and design some of my own. :)
This brightens my day so much! Thank you! :)
Incredible in depth research!!! Love it
This is a wonderful video, thanks so much for making it.
Thanks so much for this Roses! I would be so excited to see you bring some of the behind the scenes context to your MSW reviews as well.
I met Roberta Williams when she visited Westwood Associates in 1989.
Great video glad to see you doing games again 🙂
I just adore your channel, and the directions you've been taking it lately, but it was also lovely to revisit retro gaming. Loved this one, and all the additional background you included.
KQ3 made a huge impression on me, along with KQ1 and KQ2 of course.
But something about KQ3, and Manannan, and being isolated on the mountain top, and having to sneak around, and really figure out how to cast and use those spells... magical!
I love watching these videos you do about games I didn't grow up with, it helps give me context into the historical importance. I always assumed the games were just hard to lengthen the value but it makes sense from Roberta's history, I think how she came to it from a love of childhood storytelling rather than "game making" also helped make it stand out with refreshing imagination at the time. I always wanted to play these games but I find them too frustrating, however my introduction to them back in the day was Peasants Quest which I did beat multiple times funnily enough.
Thanks Roses :)
Getting a serious VH1 Pop-up Video vibe with those "Rose's popup facts" inserts you had in here, I love it
I'm so happy to hear you cover this game!