My daughter and I were on the train. She was reading the first book. Suddenly she put it down and said, "have you ever wanted to punch a book"? A lady a few rows from us turned around and asked "are you reading Twilight"?. It was hilarious.
You raised your kid well. I have too many female friends who love the books and I have had 30 minute shouting matches with them as to why they're bad. I always lose my voice at "a grown man imprints on a baby fresh out the womb".
No itt not acting, because when the writer guy said about some weird obscure plots, the executive guy gave us expression how he really felt about these movies. He couldn't he fake that expression.
Just to put my two bits in - Stephanie Meyer's world building and character developments (vampires and werewolves) are very weak and disturbing. There are a lot of other books on the same paranormal romance/urban fantasy genres that do a way more better job than the Twight books. Take the books by Ilona Andrews for example 😉. Their depiction of paranormal beings are completely removed from the general trend in their Innkeeper Chronicles and the Kate Daniels' Magic series.
Achara: "yeah but Michael Bay basically sexualise Megan Fox in Transformers"....and here in Twilight we have 17yo Taylor Lautner shirtless 80% of the movie.
Yeah and look how Megan Fox dresses now. Tells you a lot about female actresses who cry about them being sexualised. Then again the same kind of hypocrisy is true for the guys. Because for all the screaming about how it's unfair that guys are shirtless and what not, you just know that Taylor loved to show-off his abs and knowing girls are going crazy over him. Most guy love that.
@@steelbear2063 yeah guys love being liked by lots of girls, of course, but that's rare, you gotta be rich and famous for that, but girls are liked by lots of guys, they don't need to be rich and famous just a bit nice looking
I love how in Supernatural, the Vampires find good looking guys and turn them into Vampires to trick girls into thinking they're romantic like in Twilight and then eat them LOL
@@mezxv Yeah the vampires figured it's so easy to get young girls because movies made them into romantic creatures instead of what vampires really are in movies blood thirsty hunters LOL
@@jakecleveland1051 Buffy did it too! Buffy literally starts with a vampire girl sucking a guy and it works cause you wouldn't expect the vampire to be the girl
No Jaby, the relationship with the baby is more messed up than the one between Bella and Edward. Jacob will - intentional or not - be grooming her for a future relationship.
She literally will not have the freedom to say no, he will raise her to love him, which is disgusting. He is taking her free will away from birth. That's called indoctrination, and given Jacob's manipulative track record if she tried to exert her free mind he'd quash it. She CANNOT choose someone on her own, she will be emotionally tethered to Jacob forever.
@@haku8135 I don’t see how tho. Like surely if she didn’t love him in that way and wasn’t happy with that kind of relationship couldn’t she just say no? And if she didnt want it her parents for sure wouldn’t let him touch her. They’re very protective
@@JessieJ93 how stupid can you be, like Jesus fucking christ. Look up the definition of grooming, either you’ve literally never heard any story of child abuse or you should really not be allowed around children. Even at 16 youth can be convinced with emotional manipulation from basically any older figure that they aren’t mature enough to recognize the dangers of. They won’t report it as abuse because they believe the toxic circumstances of whatever possessive or negatively induced affection to be perfectly legitimate because people aren’t born with any knowledge of relationships necessary to see it for what it is. Beyond that their parents have thoroughly shown they don’t understand the consequences of such manipulative behavior cause their relationship is predicated on it, why would they be trusted to provide a safe environment and psychosocial development necessary to enter any dynamic like that healthily. If anything knowing her parents story would romanticize the unhealthy dynamic as the basis for love, just like what happens with many kids IRL. You are supposed to appreciate these stories because of the taboos they are trangressive of but when you can’t trust the author to understand the lines they cross, you cannot trust the story to not fuck with your own perceptions of a healthy relationship or morality.
@@JessieJ93 No, you don't understand. He will RAISE HER to love him. It's not a matter of her not WANTING to be with him, want will not even be a factor. She will not be able to consider what it would be like without him. That's what grooming is. That's what indoctrination is. That's why it's so terrifying. You make them THINK it's their choice, when really it's yours. Doing this you can make people perfectly content doing horrible things and being oppressed in egregious ways.
@@haku8135 You are 100% correct!!! In fact, there is a perfect line that sums this up from the movie *The Truman Show* (which I VERY highly recommend!!). The creator, Christof, is asked by an interviewer why Truman had never figured out his entire life was being filmed for the world to see. Christof responds, *"We accept the world with which we are presented."* I never forgot that line because it's true and it falls in line with what you are saying. To me, both pairs (Belle/Edward, Jacob/a Friggin BABY!!) are *ALMOST* equally horrible because Edward is 108 years older than Bella so he was grooming her from the time they met. The major difference which makes your point so valid is that Renesmee (a BABY!!!) is a friggin BABY!!! So she literally learns to talk, walk, think the way her parents and Jacob want her to. Bella and Edward *trust* Jacob, and he is allowed massive amounts of unsupervised time with her. He will indeed raise her to love him and, to your point, *her ABILITY to say no will never exist.* Stephanie Meyers is horrible.
Completely agree with Jaby's rant age rant. The fact that it's justified because Edward Cullen looks young is the same type of cop out in anime where a character looks like they're 10 but it's ok because they are actually 100+ years old in the story.
I am totally with Jaby on this.. Twilight is creepy! The guy breaking and entering into her bedroom and staring while she sleeps.. The werewolf dude having a think for a baby! Jeez.. And all the Emotional blackmail.. That's a seriously dysfunctional relationship.. Twilight is basically fantasy of most women.. To be the center of universe where every random stranger wants to love and protect them risking their own lives.. But saying that out loud sounds controversial so they say stuff like its such a beautiful story and all that crap..
I mean, he's a vampire. Why are people shocked to have vampires and werewolves acting in creepy ways. Vampires stay up at night and generally see humans as prey while werewolves are territorial and protective. This behaviour from both is actually the part of Twilight that makes the most sense.
@@nosai10 because it's shown to be romantic and they're super in love? Buffy dates a 200 year old vampire but at least Angel's a gentleman while Edward is creepy and Jacob's planning to groom and eventually breed a baby girl
I feel like one of the reasons people weren't as put off by the whole Edward + Bella relationship as much as they could have been was due to their depiction of maturity. Edward is 104, but do they really portray that? Is he a wise old mentor, a world-weary soul that has seen many things and often recounts old stories? From what I can see, he has the same emotional maturity as every other character and being 104 is just a thing they say he is, but they could have just as easily said he was 50 or 21 or 1000 and it would have made no difference. Because he doesn't act or appear any differently than any young adult. Also, Jacob falling in love with a newborn baby and raising her so they could eventually sleep together was just weird and disturbing on every conceivable level, as were the overall themes of emotional manipulation and people just being terrible.
@@Mr.Ekshin More like "This very old man is portrayed by a 22 year old actor who looks and acts like he's 22, so audiences accepted his apparent age over his actual age." It's like with Lord of the Rings. Arwen is a 2901 year old elf, but did anyone object to her being in love with the 87 year old Aragorn?
@@bipstymcbipste5641 a lot of proprietary stuff related to age is just stupid cultural hangups. What does it matter as long as the couple can have a happy, enjoyable relationship that's not toxic like those in Twilight? As long as the relationship itself functions well. So long as it's a healthy relationship given the ages of both parties, whatever they may be with respect and special attention payed to any conditional factors brought about by their age gap and respective ages, it should be fine even if it looks or sounds weird.
@@1tylerq127 a young person is privy to being groomed by a much older person. The age shifts the power balance to the older. That's part of why legal age exists
Omg! So proud of you two! You actually aired a real debate between a man and a woman over the Twilight saga! And mature! You guys are great and yes Twilight was bizarre lol
Achara, the reason it happens in vampire stories all the time is because, typically, they are portrayed as predators. Sexual and literal. Their actuons are driven by their predatory nature. Even in this, his infatuation is driven by the fact he wants to eat her. It isn't romance it is predatory in every sense of the word.
I think it's an interesting (though pointless) debate to be had. How do you judge a large age gap between lovers when they both look the same age because one is "magic" (a vampire)? I think for me, and you mention it, the key is to not go after young (esp underaged) guys or girls. If you're a 1,000 year old vampire dating a 30 year old, that's still weird, but it's not predatory. The 30 year old by non-magical standards is a mature adult, so even though the 1,000 year old has 10 life times more experience, she/he isn't preying on a child. The problem is story tellers who want to tell a "young HS girl falls in love with an older man" can't exactly do it non-magically because society says that's wrong/gross. So they use the vampire genre to tell it. Now it's "okay" because the guy LOOKS the same age, and because he's not 40 but 500 years old, it's fictional enough that it becomes so gray that people aren't as grossed out by it. Twilight, The Vampire Diaries, so on and so forth. True Blood did it well if I remember correctly. Sookie was in her late 20's or early 30's. Even though Bill was 170+, she was a grown adult. But that show wasn't targeting teens, therefore the teen/high school aspect that's common in vampire y/a content was missing.
Sookie was 25 at the beginning of the story, and because of her ability, she had no previous relationship experience. Also further books reveal that Bill had a hidden motive behind enterig the relationship. So that series isn't exactly non-predatory relationship either.
This is an old comment but what the hell? It doesn't strike people as weird because many view growing up as a choice. If people could remain the same age forever, they wouldn't have to adapt to society's changing expectations or be forced to make difficult decisions based on the time they have left or form attachments to those who would otherwise perpetuate their legacy. They are forever teens or young adults, albeit ones who are very cultured and intellectual. Most girls who are attracted to vampires are the same ones who enjoy old fashioned romance novels where sex isn't as important. The Twilight franchise heavily appealed to immature and sexually repressed teen girls who find the depiction of a non threatening male partner appealing. Anne Rice had a similar career but her vampires catered mainly to repressed gay teens. Despite the proliferation of porn in the age of social media, it's been said that todays teens are even more sexually repressed than previous generations. A fascinating case study can be made for sure. Having said all that, imprinting on a baby is still super weird. My assumption is that by that point, the fanbase was already deeply invested in the franchise to the bitter end.
YES! Achara bringin up "what we do in the shadows" just made my day. Its a totally underestimated film as is anything Jemaine gets involved in. Hes in it for the love of crafted comedy not the clout so his projects are hardly advertised
There was a discussion in a family gathering today, couldn't speak anything due to all the hypocrisy floating around. Then I watched this video, and I was mentally fulfilled.
I totally get you Achara. I know how it feels going from being totally crazy about this series to now wondering why you ever liked any of it. I was a huge fan of the books AND the movies although I never understood why. For some unknown reason, it was very addictive. So don't be so hard on her Jaby. She's not alone 😄
I get the argument. It's the same type of mentality when girls call a guy a "creep" because the guy has interest in them. However, the guy wouldn't be a "creep" if they were "Good looking" / attractive. They're only a "creep" because they're average/unattractive. It's a really crappy double standard.
Millions of teenage girls are cool with a 17 year old sociopathic, whiny only child werewolf that literally gets turned on by newborns? I don't think anyone needs to understand that...
When are the books not better ? Even though they're trash , I still read the 4 abominations by Stephanie Mayer, and I also read Midnight Sun. I absolutely hate them , but I still read em.
I remember reading the last book in the series and wondering how they were going to be able to have this huge battle they’d spent the majority of the book setting up when there were only a few pages left. Then she just chickened out. I may have been devastated at the end of Harry Potter but at least JK Rowling’s had the guts to actually kill beloved characters. I was genuinely concerned for the fate of my favorite characters.
I did watch all three movies, no matter how it is, if I saw one, I must finish the rest. LOL this discussion they're having I love it. I side with Jaby.
I remember reading the first Twilight book, and I was laughing the whole time. I thought it was suppose to be like a silly vampire parody thing...And then I found out it was all dead serious, and that took all the fun out of it. It only got worse from there.
Bram Stoker's Dracula and Interview with a Vampire. Legit the best 2 Vampire films. It's about eroticism and horror, you can't have one without the other in the realm of vampires. If there's no scene that makes you gasp in shock of the horror...you're doing vampires wrong.
["What We Do in the Shadows" is brilliant, both its film and its TV series...] The concept of "all of what we jus saw was all a dream/vision" is from a classic Twilight Zone episode called "An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge" (which was a remake of an "Alfred Hitchcock Presents" episode), in which a Conferate soldier in the process of being hanged, escapes as the rope snaps, and he eludes his pursuers until he reaches his home and as he greets his wife, he is wrenched back as the taught rope snaps his neck, his escape being within an instant of time as he was dropped by the hangmen. So when I come across that, now a nonsensical trope, I just go, "Oh, it's just an 'Owl Creek Bridge' bit...
I mean yeah but... She had more than enough opportunities to stop defending the baby fugker.. at a certain point your hands are tied... I mean at least regarding baby fugking...
That's modern women for you, always want to be right even when they know their wrong, people like this just ignore logic and justify anything to suit their feelings. She's just stubborn and dumb af.
I get what Jaby is saying, but I think he's over-analysing and over-reacting. It's a movie. Lots of movies are weird or have weird mythology surrounding them. And I agree with Achara, "romantic" vampire movies are like that. There is always a 100 years old or over vampire and he develops a relationship with a human with whom he shouldn't. You have to see it as a "Beauty and the Beast" kind of movie or as a "Romeo and Juliet" story; you konw, those movies where love between 2 persons is forbidden/impossible. I felt bad for Achara. Here's a hug from Canada! Love your smile!
I agree with Jaby's points on how the story of Twilight is so fucked up. Like Achara when the books and movies came out I was in the Twilight fever but by the Breaking Dawn parts came out I was over it. And thinking back I feel disgusted at the whole concept of Twilight.
When you groom a minor and influence them, like Jacob did with the baby, you take away the minor's choice. The baby doesn't have any other chance or choice than loving Jacob... If you don't think that is messed up and wrong written all over it, something's wrong with you. ( I'm not telling this about Achara btw, just speaking my mind)
Its kind of a unique conundrum because Jacob as a wolf doesn’t have a choice on the imprinting thing either. So its kind of messed up for both of them.
@@TryingToWakeUp-qb7iu What do you mean, ‘can’t control himself?’ He’s a teenager that lives with his dad like everyone else. Where exactly is this child, who’s grown up on a reservation and still in school, going to move to?? The cullens would have an easier time moving than a child of a single parent. There’s no point in trying so hard to make something ‘magical’ make sense in a real world.
Personally I actually really liked the fights in the movies. However one thing I found out is when the movies first came out the guy that plays Jacob was like 16 (and having all these ADULT WOMEN swooning over him!) while the woman that plays Bella was like in her early 20s. 🧐 Seems super weird and kinda gross to have adults kissing minors and what kind of example is that setting for teenage boys seeing that as not wrong. THEN we have bland Bella over here that goes into this awful relationship with Edward (which was WAY to rushed.) and he is aggressive (not necessarily on purpose towards her, but he did push her into a table.) and he is centuries older then her. I think both books an movies gave off bad influences on both young boys and girls. But that is just my opinion.
There is one thing about the argument that the relationship is gross because edward is 100 yo. Not only he "doesn't look that old", for all intents and purposes, he behaves exactly like a teenager or very young adult. So it doesn't matter what his actual age is. To the reader it computes as if he was the age he appears to be. The appeal for women is to fantasize about an eternal and youthful romance. And also, a boyfriend that is sensitive, kind of emo, but "badass" (in a girly way) and obsessed about her. Not to mention being desired by two ideal dudes. Plus, it was at the time emo had just gone mainstream in early 2000's Seriously, I don't know how people can't understand why it was popular.
"Happens all the time in vampire fiction" Not with Blade it doesn't. Not with Alucard it doesn't. It happens all the time in vampire fiction aimed at stupid young girls.
I am not a fan of twilight by a long shot. But a few years ago, I was so bored in my life that I decided to read the books and in the books "imprinting" was explained as something so pure. It was explained as a protection . Any shape shifter (yes! The werewolves were not werewolves in the book. They were shape shifters who just happened to take the shape of their animal spirits)who imprints a human is bound to protect that human for life. It can develop in any form, whatever the human chooses it to be, be it just a friendship or a romantic relationship or whatever the human wants them to be in their life. So I was okay with it.
That's how vampires fall in love Jaby...with a century old teenage school going girl, same thing happened in vampire daries. Women love Damon too from vampire diaries and he's a murderous psychopath who is killing everybody without any reason. Perfect example for how logical and idealistic women are...
Before Twilight there was Buffy/Angel and before that there was a soap called Dark Shadows in the early 70’s where a teenaged girl comes to live with 200 year old vampire who was, you guessed it, caressed.
My daughter and I were on the train. She was reading the first book. Suddenly she put it down and said, "have you ever wanted to punch a book"? A lady a few rows from us turned around and asked "are you reading Twilight"?. It was hilarious.
You raised your kid well. I have too many female friends who love the books and I have had 30 minute shouting matches with them as to why they're bad. I always lose my voice at "a grown man imprints on a baby fresh out the womb".
And then everyone on the train stood up and clapped…
r/thathappened
Best anecdote ever! 😅
@@emanymton713 Nothing about this story is unbelievable.
Ryan George's acting in this pitch meeting was better than the acting in all the twilight movies
I dunno, I think Robert Pattinson did a great job of making it seem like he didn't want to kill himself after every scene.
😂
Jaby: that baby grows so fast, why?
Achara: because
Jaby: fair enough
Baby suddenly growing incredible fast is tight.
That works!
Lol
You do realize it's somehow worse?
Every time Producer Guy begins to slowly create disappointment in his face, it's the best
But then money
Oh yea, money is TIGHT
It's like he is slowly getting the integrity bug only tho get a huge dosis of the money vaccine.
I’ve only seen him dead serious twice... I’m breaking dawn parts 1 and 2 lol
oh yep my fav reaction is that. You should watch the Old movie pitch meeting
Moneymoneymoneymoneymoney.......
"I can't wait to see the main characters in some action scenes"
"No, actually the main characters are gonna go camping"🤣🤣😅
IMO this is Ryan George's best acting in the whole Pitch Meeting series
after watching it, I have to agree xD
No itt not acting, because when the writer guy said about some weird obscure plots, the executive guy gave us expression how he really felt about these movies. He couldn't he fake that expression.
I think it's just the real Ryan George comes out a couple of times here. "What are we doing here man?" He's just playing himself at that moment.
idk, maybe, but his best joke is easily in the Batman Trilogy Pitch Meetings with the condensed milk bit.
I'm with Jaby on this 😂. His Rant is just pure facts.
Same
Just to put my two bits in - Stephanie Meyer's world building and character developments (vampires and werewolves) are very weak and disturbing. There are a lot of other books on the same paranormal romance/urban fantasy genres that do a way more better job than the Twight books. Take the books by Ilona Andrews for example 😉. Their depiction of paranormal beings are completely removed from the general trend in their Innkeeper Chronicles and the Kate Daniels' Magic series.
Same
well no one was going to agree with the female on jaby's channel. thats silly. I would have put in money and been surprised if they had.
4
Achara: "yeah but Michael Bay basically sexualise Megan Fox in Transformers"....and here in Twilight we have 17yo Taylor Lautner shirtless 80% of the movie.
Yeah the hypocrisy lmao
Yeah and look how Megan Fox dresses now. Tells you a lot about female actresses who cry about them being sexualised. Then again the same kind of hypocrisy is true for the guys. Because for all the screaming about how it's unfair that guys are shirtless and what not, you just know that Taylor loved to show-off his abs and knowing girls are going crazy over him. Most guy love that.
HE WAS 17?!?!??
@@steelbear2063 yeah guys love being liked by lots of girls, of course, but that's rare, you gotta be rich and famous for that, but girls are liked by lots of guys, they don't need to be rich and famous just a bit nice looking
@@Sparc-qe1xp not just that Edward kiss a 17 year old girl with like 150 thats ridiculous
I love how in Supernatural, the Vampires find good looking guys and turn them into Vampires to trick girls into thinking they're romantic like in Twilight and then eat them LOL
really? That's actually pretty awesome. I stopped watching Supernatural long ago but now that the last season is here I may get back into it.
@@mezxv Yeah the vampires figured it's so easy to get young girls because movies made them into romantic creatures instead of what vampires really are in movies blood thirsty hunters LOL
@@jakecleveland1051 That’s pretty hilarious.
@@jakecleveland1051 Buffy did it too! Buffy literally starts with a vampire girl sucking a guy and it works cause you wouldn't expect the vampire to be the girl
@@jakecleveland1051 facts the queen of the dammed do that shlt too
No Jaby, the relationship with the baby is more messed up than the one between Bella and Edward.
Jacob will - intentional or not - be grooming her for a future relationship.
She literally will not have the freedom to say no, he will raise her to love him, which is disgusting. He is taking her free will away from birth. That's called indoctrination, and given Jacob's manipulative track record if she tried to exert her free mind he'd quash it. She CANNOT choose someone on her own, she will be emotionally tethered to Jacob forever.
@@haku8135 I don’t see how tho. Like surely if she didn’t love him in that way and wasn’t happy with that kind of relationship couldn’t she just say no? And if she didnt want it her parents for sure wouldn’t let him touch her. They’re very protective
@@JessieJ93 how stupid can you be, like Jesus fucking christ. Look up the definition of grooming, either you’ve literally never heard any story of child abuse or you should really not be allowed around children.
Even at 16 youth can be convinced with emotional manipulation from basically any older figure that they aren’t mature enough to recognize the dangers of. They won’t report it as abuse because they believe the toxic circumstances of whatever possessive or negatively induced affection to be perfectly legitimate because people aren’t born with any knowledge of relationships necessary to see it for what it is. Beyond that their parents have thoroughly shown they don’t understand the consequences of such manipulative behavior cause their relationship is predicated on it, why would they be trusted to provide a safe environment and psychosocial development necessary to enter any dynamic like that healthily.
If anything knowing her parents story would romanticize the unhealthy dynamic as the basis for love, just like what happens with many kids IRL. You are supposed to appreciate these stories because of the taboos they are trangressive of but when you can’t trust the author to understand the lines they cross, you cannot trust the story to not fuck with your own perceptions of a healthy relationship or morality.
@@JessieJ93 No, you don't understand.
He will RAISE HER to love him. It's not a matter of her not WANTING to be with him, want will not even be a factor. She will not be able to consider what it would be like without him. That's what grooming is. That's what indoctrination is. That's why it's so terrifying.
You make them THINK it's their choice, when really it's yours. Doing this you can make people perfectly content doing horrible things and being oppressed in egregious ways.
@@haku8135 You are 100% correct!!!
In fact, there is a perfect line that sums this up from the movie *The Truman Show* (which I VERY highly recommend!!). The creator, Christof, is asked by an interviewer why Truman had never figured out his entire life was being filmed for the world to see. Christof responds, *"We accept the world with which we are presented."* I never forgot that line because it's true and it falls in line with what you are saying.
To me, both pairs (Belle/Edward, Jacob/a Friggin BABY!!) are *ALMOST* equally horrible because Edward is 108 years older than Bella so he was grooming her from the time they met. The major difference which makes your point so valid is that Renesmee (a BABY!!!) is a friggin BABY!!! So she literally learns to talk, walk, think the way her parents and Jacob want her to. Bella and Edward *trust* Jacob, and he is allowed massive amounts of unsupervised time with her. He will indeed raise her to love him and, to your point, *her ABILITY to say no will never exist.* Stephanie Meyers is horrible.
Completely agree with Jaby's rant age rant. The fact that it's justified because Edward Cullen looks young is the same type of cop out in anime where a character looks like they're 10 but it's ok because they are actually 100+ years old in the story.
This is the most heated debate I've ever seen on TH-cam. And I love it!
heated yes, but there was no debate.
He was making valid points and she made flimsy sorry excuses she herself couldn't even defend.
I always supported Achara .but these time I support jaby .he is perfectly correct.
The whole time I was like, "Achara. No. Please."
Yeah like so what he is enrolled in school he is hundreds of years old the teacher does that they go to jail edward does it its fine
Coz they play Good cop Bad cop to cater both sides.
Lost Boys
Interview with the Vampire
Blade
From Dusk til Dawn
All great vampire movies!
Agree!!!
Daybreakers is a good one also.
Not a baby fu ck ed in any of them! And somehow they still managed to be successful!
@ImAProudIndian The whole book series was amazing.
I am totally with Jaby on this.. Twilight is creepy! The guy breaking and entering into her bedroom and staring while she sleeps.. The werewolf dude having a think for a baby! Jeez.. And all the Emotional blackmail.. That's a seriously dysfunctional relationship.. Twilight is basically fantasy of most women.. To be the center of universe where every random stranger wants to love and protect them risking their own lives.. But saying that out loud sounds controversial so they say stuff like its such a beautiful story and all that crap..
Man totally agree
I mean, he's a vampire. Why are people shocked to have vampires and werewolves acting in creepy ways. Vampires stay up at night and generally see humans as prey while werewolves are territorial and protective. This behaviour from both is actually the part of Twilight that makes the most sense.
@@nosai10 May be the problem is that this behavior is shown as coming out from a place of love & romance instead of basic animal instincts
@@nosai10 because it's shown to be romantic and they're super in love? Buffy dates a 200 year old vampire but at least Angel's a gentleman while Edward is creepy and Jacob's planning to groom and eventually breed a baby girl
'most women'
Pathetic sexist confirmed. You need to stop (clearly) only hanging out with the losers, maybe even try to stop being one yourself.
Damn Jaby went in.....and he didn’t lie once
Achara looks like she secretly still likes Twilight 😂😂
she knows it makes no sense, but it still makes her tingle....
For shame.
"Edward Comin'" - Jaby Koay, 2021
It's less weird because Edward didn't raise Bella, Jacob helps raising that baby.
But doesn't that make Jacob a father figure? That's even worse 😂
It’s called grooming
And she won't have a choice either
Jaby you need to get alll the way off Achara's back😂
Jaby should follow the writer's advice. "Please, please, please, don't think about it too much!" :'D
I remember the hype back in middle school when it was popular and I still don’t get it how it was so hyped up ha
I feel like one of the reasons people weren't as put off by the whole Edward + Bella relationship as much as they could have been was due to their depiction of maturity. Edward is 104, but do they really portray that? Is he a wise old mentor, a world-weary soul that has seen many things and often recounts old stories? From what I can see, he has the same emotional maturity as every other character and being 104 is just a thing they say he is, but they could have just as easily said he was 50 or 21 or 1000 and it would have made no difference. Because he doesn't act or appear any differently than any young adult.
Also, Jacob falling in love with a newborn baby and raising her so they could eventually sleep together was just weird and disturbing on every conceivable level, as were the overall themes of emotional manipulation and people just being terrible.
You used a lot of words to say, "This movie is about a very old man who hooks up with a high school girl, but it's okay because he's kinda immature".
@@Mr.Ekshin More like "This very old man is portrayed by a 22 year old actor who looks and acts like he's 22, so audiences accepted his apparent age over his actual age."
It's like with Lord of the Rings. Arwen is a 2901 year old elf, but did anyone object to her being in love with the 87 year old Aragorn?
@@TechDragon1 if Aragorn was a 16 year old, it would be creepy
@@bipstymcbipste5641 a lot of proprietary stuff related to age is just stupid cultural hangups. What does it matter as long as the couple can have a happy, enjoyable relationship that's not toxic like those in Twilight? As long as the relationship itself functions well. So long as it's a healthy relationship given the ages of both parties, whatever they may be with respect and special attention payed to any conditional factors brought about by their age gap and respective ages, it should be fine even if it looks or sounds weird.
@@1tylerq127 a young person is privy to being groomed by a much older person. The age shifts the power balance to the older. That's part of why legal age exists
Omg! So proud of you two! You actually aired a real debate between a man and a woman over the Twilight saga! And mature! You guys are great and yes Twilight was bizarre lol
For the first time I am so glad I stuck around after the reaction. This is much better😄😄😄
I loved Jaby’s rant in this one..! 😂
Man jaby you spoke my heart out in this. Awesome.
How have I not watched this video sooner?!? Jaby’s rant about the moral and ethical issues with Twilight are both hilarious and factual.
I think it started a journey for me to explore the soundtracks and scores and I really like the movies for that reason only.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 This reaction is more funnier than the video compilation.... Jaby's rant is hilarious!!! 😂😂😂
If by hilarious you mean spot on, I agree. Also "more funnier"? Mkay.
Achara's wearing a Deathly Hallows shirt and defending Twilight!!
Is she tho?
Why is Achara so adamant on making this "okay"?? When she clearly knows it is not....
Because it’s fiction and she’s allowed to like whatever she wants. Leave her alone
@@JessieJ93 She's allowed to like it and in that same boat, we're allowed to be like, "you realize how fucked it is right?"
Preach, Jaby. Preach! ✊🏻
I loved this. I rewatched their discussion over and over again. This is gold
“Jack Jack from The Incredibles looked less digital than this thing!” Rifftrax in regards to the baby.
Achara, the reason it happens in vampire stories all the time is because, typically, they are portrayed as predators. Sexual and literal. Their actuons are driven by their predatory nature. Even in this, his infatuation is driven by the fact he wants to eat her. It isn't romance it is predatory in every sense of the word.
God jaby!!!! This is way better than the movie. Superb!
By the way, thanks for the compilation reaction. It's fun to share laughs with you two :)
I think it's an interesting (though pointless) debate to be had. How do you judge a large age gap between lovers when they both look the same age because one is "magic" (a vampire)? I think for me, and you mention it, the key is to not go after young (esp underaged) guys or girls. If you're a 1,000 year old vampire dating a 30 year old, that's still weird, but it's not predatory. The 30 year old by non-magical standards is a mature adult, so even though the 1,000 year old has 10 life times more experience, she/he isn't preying on a child.
The problem is story tellers who want to tell a "young HS girl falls in love with an older man" can't exactly do it non-magically because society says that's wrong/gross. So they use the vampire genre to tell it. Now it's "okay" because the guy LOOKS the same age, and because he's not 40 but 500 years old, it's fictional enough that it becomes so gray that people aren't as grossed out by it. Twilight, The Vampire Diaries, so on and so forth.
True Blood did it well if I remember correctly. Sookie was in her late 20's or early 30's. Even though Bill was 170+, she was a grown adult. But that show wasn't targeting teens, therefore the teen/high school aspect that's common in vampire y/a content was missing.
Sookie was 25 at the beginning of the story, and because of her ability, she had no previous relationship experience. Also further books reveal that Bill had a hidden motive behind enterig the relationship. So that series isn't exactly non-predatory relationship either.
@@jakistam1000 good points.
This is an old comment but what the hell? It doesn't strike people as weird because many view growing up as a choice. If people could remain the same age forever, they wouldn't have to adapt to society's changing expectations or be forced to make difficult decisions based on the time they have left or form attachments to those who would otherwise perpetuate their legacy. They are forever teens or young adults, albeit ones who are very cultured and intellectual.
Most girls who are attracted to vampires are the same ones who enjoy old fashioned romance novels where sex isn't as important. The Twilight franchise heavily appealed to immature and sexually repressed teen girls who find the depiction of a non threatening male partner appealing. Anne Rice had a similar career but her vampires catered mainly to repressed gay teens. Despite the proliferation of porn in the age of social media, it's been said that todays teens are even more sexually repressed than previous generations. A fascinating case study can be made for sure.
Having said all that, imprinting on a baby is still super weird. My assumption is that by that point, the fanbase was already deeply invested in the franchise to the bitter end.
I revisit sometimes just for the Jaby rant lol. I love it.
I am with you on this one Jaby..
Achara likes twilight but doesn't like TENET
Makes perfect sense
I mean, Tenet is still trash
@@ericstorm6582 🙄🙄
"Edward common"
-Jaby, 2021.
YES! Achara bringin up "what we do in the shadows" just made my day. Its a totally underestimated film as is anything Jemaine gets involved in. Hes in it for the love of crafted comedy not the clout so his projects are hardly advertised
I regret enjoying twilight 😅 I read each book 5 times, but u can forgive me I was only 14...so that's understandable
Literally laughing for the whole discussion part.. 😂😂😂😂😂
"Did this movie just get good, i think this movie just got good" my exact feeling in the movie...🤣🤣🤣
There was a discussion in a family gathering today, couldn't speak anything due to all the hypocrisy floating around. Then I watched this video, and I was mentally fulfilled.
"you know that's somehow worse right? You know that...."
"But...money?!"
Debate between Jaby and Achara post the screen rant videos is GOLD. Team Jaby vs Team Achara. I am with Team Jaby. Long live Jaby Koay.
I am glad I watched it, the conversation is an eye opener. And now i see manipulations movies do.
love it, the rant at the end is fantastic and on point
Full Support For Jaby this time😂😂😂😂
Wow I was so surprised when I knew that jaby and achara didn't know that 50 shades was a fan fiction of twilight
I totally get you Achara. I know how it feels going from being totally crazy about this series to now wondering why you ever liked any of it. I was a huge fan of the books AND the movies although I never understood why. For some unknown reason, it was very addictive.
So don't be so hard on her Jaby. She's not alone 😄
What's crazy about Pitch Meetings are that half the time, Ryan George just explains the plot of the movie and the jokes kinda write themselves
26:20, I get the impression Jaby is ever so slightly upset about this topic. 😐
🤣😂🤣
He just hates hypocrisy and dumb people being stubborn, illogical and contradictory.
"Well sir unless you want me to get into the technicalities of werewolf junk, I suggest you get all the way off my back" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Jaby man, i understand why it is weird but it's a good thing that Vampires are not real cause stuff like that would happen a lot
As an adult female, I’m 100% with Jaby. It’s seriously fucked up on sooo many levels!!! So many…
I get the argument. It's the same type of mentality when girls call a guy a "creep" because the guy has interest in them. However, the guy wouldn't be a "creep" if they were "Good looking" / attractive. They're only a "creep" because they're average/unattractive. It's a really crappy double standard.
Yeah I hate it
Because of someone's creep their a creep whether or not they're good looking
We can’t understand Twilight because it was written for teenage girls. We aren’t teenage girls dude.
Millions of teenage girls are cool with a 17 year old sociopathic, whiny only child werewolf that literally gets turned on by newborns? I don't think anyone needs to understand that...
I'm a teenage girl.. And I assure you the only thing I hate more than twilight is After sequel
When I finally saw the first Twilight movie, I laughed so hard that it's now a "bad comedy" for me.
31:12 did jaby just said "Edward come on my face"? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
My girlfriend used to like twilight series , now she can't make eye contact with me when we discuss .
That was truly beautiful 🥰🥰🥰
HAHAHA Jaby gets all crazy over this.. I love it lol. The books are better
When are the books not better ? Even though they're trash , I still read the 4 abominations by Stephanie Mayer, and I also read Midnight Sun. I absolutely hate them , but I still read em.
Both the books and movies are trash but the movies are a little less trash than the books only because of the beautiful locations they were shot in
I remember reading the last book in the series and wondering how they were going to be able to have this huge battle they’d spent the majority of the book setting up when there were only a few pages left. Then she just chickened out. I may have been devastated at the end of Harry Potter but at least JK Rowling’s had the guts to actually kill beloved characters. I was genuinely concerned for the fate of my favorite characters.
Pitch meeting compilations are TIGHT
I hear ya. I’ve been fussing about screwed up relationships in movies and books and the bizarre double standards for a long time.
I did watch all three movies, no matter how it is, if I saw one, I must finish the rest.
LOL this discussion they're having I love it. I side with Jaby.
There are 5 movies
@@Pine-sq2ll oh yeah with the parts
You guys are awesome this my second video of yours i watched had to sub i never even new there was movie pitch reaction videos love it
Team Jaby!! 😄 whole series is sooo wrong on so many levels. it’s disgusting.
From all the laughs I have had in the whole week, most of it is from this upload of yours. 😂😃👍
I am here for the discussion its so funny!!!
There’s a great joke in what we do in the shadows that relates to Jabby’s rant
THIS. WAS. ABSOLUTELY. AMAZING. AND. STRAIGHT. FACTS.
I remember reading the first Twilight book, and I was laughing the whole time. I thought it was suppose to be like a silly vampire parody thing...And then I found out it was all dead serious, and that took all the fun out of it. It only got worse from there.
Bram Stoker's Dracula and Interview with a Vampire. Legit the best 2 Vampire films.
It's about eroticism and horror, you can't have one without the other in the realm of vampires. If there's no scene that makes you gasp in shock of the horror...you're doing vampires wrong.
You CANNOT compare Twilight with Interview with a Vampire or Blade. Period. That goes for both of you. Lol
Awkward arguing at the end
["What We Do in the Shadows" is brilliant, both its film and its TV series...]
The concept of "all of what we jus saw was all a dream/vision" is from a classic Twilight Zone episode called "An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge" (which was a remake of an "Alfred Hitchcock Presents" episode), in which a Conferate soldier in the process of being hanged, escapes as the rope snaps, and he eludes his pursuers until he reaches his home and as he greets his wife, he is wrenched back as the taught rope snaps his neck, his escape being within an instant of time as he was dropped by the hangmen.
So when I come across that, now a nonsensical trope, I just go, "Oh, it's just an 'Owl Creek Bridge' bit...
Jaby, you`re us discussing with Achara lol said everything I was thinking
I love the rant at the end!
I low-key feel bad for achara in this video. Jaby's kinda relentless sometimes, even when he's correct.
I mean yeah but... She had more than enough opportunities to stop defending the baby fugker.. at a certain point your hands are tied... I mean at least regarding baby fugking...
She feels like she has to defend the opinions of her younger, dumber, immature self but she doesn't have to
That's modern women for you, always want to be right even when they know their wrong, people like this just ignore logic and justify anything to suit their feelings. She's just stubborn and dumb af.
I get what Jaby is saying, but I think he's over-analysing and over-reacting. It's a movie. Lots of movies are weird or have weird mythology surrounding them.
And I agree with Achara, "romantic" vampire movies are like that. There is always a 100 years old or over vampire and he develops a relationship with a human with whom he shouldn't. You have to see it as a "Beauty and the Beast" kind of movie or as a "Romeo and Juliet" story; you konw, those movies where love between 2 persons is forbidden/impossible.
I felt bad for Achara. Here's a hug from Canada! Love your smile!
yeah sometimes consuming dumb shit is okay too. As a means of comfort too.
@@akshat2198 just like cigarettes, alcohol, and drugs!!
@@hi_pd Vampires are just stupid in general...
"Beauty and the Beast" you mean "Stockholm Syndrome: A Disney Movie"
@@aquamentos i mean, that's your opinion
I agree with Jaby's points on how the story of Twilight is so fucked up. Like Achara when the books and movies came out I was in the Twilight fever but by the Breaking Dawn parts came out I was over it. And thinking back I feel disgusted at the whole concept of Twilight.
Ryan George is absolutely hilarious! Love his stuff!
29:47 jaby's expression is gold 😂
Thanks for the video. I enjoyed it.
When you groom a minor and influence them, like Jacob did with the baby, you take away the minor's choice. The baby doesn't have any other chance or choice than loving Jacob... If you don't think that is messed up and wrong written all over it, something's wrong with you. ( I'm not telling this about Achara btw, just speaking my mind)
Its kind of a unique conundrum because Jacob as a wolf doesn’t have a choice on the imprinting thing either. So its kind of messed up for both of them.
@@TryingToWakeUp-qb7iu What do you mean, ‘can’t control himself?’ He’s a teenager that lives with his dad like everyone else. Where exactly is this child, who’s grown up on a reservation and still in school, going to move to?? The cullens would have an easier time moving than a child of a single parent. There’s no point in trying so hard to make something ‘magical’ make sense in a real world.
More pitch meetings please love this whole video
Personally I actually really liked the fights in the movies. However one thing I found out is when the movies first came out the guy that plays Jacob was like 16 (and having all these ADULT WOMEN swooning over him!) while the woman that plays Bella was like in her early 20s. 🧐 Seems super weird and kinda gross to have adults kissing minors and what kind of example is that setting for teenage boys seeing that as not wrong. THEN we have bland Bella over here that goes into this awful relationship with Edward (which was WAY to rushed.) and he is aggressive (not necessarily on purpose towards her, but he did push her into a table.) and he is centuries older then her. I think both books an movies gave off bad influences on both young boys and girls. But that is just my opinion.
Dude i got you. What grind your gears is the double standard.
There is one thing about the argument that the relationship is gross because edward is 100 yo. Not only he "doesn't look that old", for all intents and purposes, he behaves exactly like a teenager or very young adult. So it doesn't matter what his actual age is. To the reader it computes as if he was the age he appears to be.
The appeal for women is to fantasize about an eternal and youthful romance. And also, a boyfriend that is sensitive, kind of emo, but "badass" (in a girly way) and obsessed about her. Not to mention being desired by two ideal dudes. Plus, it was at the time emo had just gone mainstream in early 2000's
Seriously, I don't know how people can't understand why it was popular.
I believe the comparing and conflating fantasy and fiction to reality is a problem that young men have.
"Happens all the time in vampire fiction"
Not with Blade it doesn't. Not with Alucard it doesn't. It happens all the time in vampire fiction aimed at stupid young girls.
True only with Vampire smut.
What a stupid comment
Damn, i forgot i even made this comment. Time flies, 3 years already.
I am not a fan of twilight by a long shot. But a few years ago, I was so bored in my life that I decided to read the books and in the books "imprinting" was explained as something so pure. It was explained as a protection . Any shape shifter (yes! The werewolves were not werewolves in the book. They were shape shifters who just happened to take the shape of their animal spirits)who imprints a human is bound to protect that human for life. It can develop in any form, whatever the human chooses it to be, be it just a friendship or a romantic relationship or whatever the human wants them to be in their life. So I was okay with it.
Wow I didn't know that now it makes sense I guess ❤️
@@reenagarg4671 I sort of liked the books better than the movies. Not saying that books were great either. But comparatively better.
That's how vampires fall in love Jaby...with a century old teenage school going girl, same thing happened in vampire daries. Women love Damon too from vampire diaries and he's a murderous psychopath who is killing everybody without any reason. Perfect example for how logical and idealistic women are...
Wow someone got rejected one too many times lol
@@JessieJ93 I'm just stating facts here...
@@JessieJ93 A fact that this dude got rejected too many times...lol
Vampire diaries is also garbage though so that tracks. And Elena is just another Bella, a blank slate who everyone loves
Lagta hai kat gaya aapka
Before Twilight there was Buffy/Angel and before that there was a soap called Dark Shadows in the early 70’s where a teenaged girl comes to live with 200 year old vampire who was, you guessed it, caressed.