I've always thought the perfect way to fix the Liberty Launcher is to give it increased pushback against enemies so you can combo it with the Reserve Shooter since it's part of the original set
@@gladoseon4117yes, infact id say that the Liberty launcher's niche should be a rocket launcher with better rocket jumps, give it a larger explosion radius and remove the faster projectile speed to hammer this role in and you have a side grade to the rocket jumper.
the cow manglers charge shot can actually already destroy sticky bombs. Though I'm sure barely anyone knows this cause in typical Valve fashion the gordbort weapons need 17 different hidden stats
yes thank you! i'm a cow mangler enthusiast and i was screaming internally when he said charge shots should destroy stickies, because it already does that.
honestly, the cow mangler's identity to me is the rocket launcher that does the funny fizzle ragdolls. But making it still do that AND have utility outside? that's the stuff
I think a vital change for the black box is to make it have 4 barrels like the weapon its based off of but have a loaf of bread jammed in one of them for lore reasons
I mean, it would make sense, but then it'd be easier for people to hit you. Make fire give you _upward_ momentum instead. Makes even more sense, and gives you more air time.
@@ghoulbuster1they removed it because soldiers would light them selfs on fire with cowvmangler charge shots to hover and get eazy market gardens. Removing it was probably good
@@mohammadwaled409 tbf, if you cannot kill a soldier who took out over half of his health and is literally a glowing orange target moving in a straight line at you with a melee weapon, it feels a little bit like a skill issue. But Dusks idea giving you upward momentum instead would make it much harder to abuse for market gardening and is kinda cool.
A note about the Black Box as myself medic main. A BB soldier with the reduced healing from other sources ides would be far more advantageous for the medic as the Uber build up would be nuts. And just letting the soilder hit himself with a few rockets would be one of if not the best Uber battery available. Would be a nightmare for comp plays as you get near infinite Uber build-up. At the cost of the soulders' natural durability. Which is huge.
what if, a la razorback, we instead gave it a -100% overheal nerf? there used to be that thing where you'd never hit cap while healing a sniper, so it was a good uber building tool, but they patched that, and you gain uber at half the rate once the sniper is full health. so do the same thing with the black box. then it becomes a question of how much more do we tack onto that? if we still limited the amount of healing gained by both medics/dispensers, AND health packs, then at that point you'd definitely need to give it back the 4th rocket, but considering soldier already has 2 melees that slow his heal rate, i don't really want to compound the same downside.
It doesn't matter because you can just add it to the list of banned weapons. If we balance all weapons with comp in mind, you will ruin every unique weapon into the ground.
@@poyloos4834 -100% overheal is really bad for soldier to deal with, also. On sniper, it's only moderately bad because, generally, it's counter-snipe protection since they shouldn't be getting too into everyone else's face. But Soldier's entire role is to get into everyone's face, so removing one of the big ways that soldier can be a viable meat-shield for the rest of the team pigeonholes the black box really harshly. It's already mainly a roamer weapon, but removing overheal just means that a roaming soldier is dramatically limited in attempting to support a medic if need be - something that has never really been a primary sniper role.
The thing with Liberty Launcher is that it always felt like it was meant to combo with the shotguns, but just missed the point entirely. And honestly? I would love to see Liberty Launcher reworked into a rocket launcher leaning into combo'ing with shotguns as _let's be real for a moment, shotguns on soldier are rarely used when gunboats and banners exist._
21:30 Imagine Bison just had alt. fire and so you could left click for a fast shot right for a slow. Imagine if you could shoot a slow and a fast together by clicking both at once too.
Left click for spamable, fast-moving projectiles, like a projectile pistol that pierces targets, at the cost of each projectile not doing a lot of damage. Left click to send a slow moving charge that does its damage over and over again as you remain in its considerably longer hitbox but can't be fired as quickly. Click both to fire a shot that is halfway in between and is essentially identical to the current build (possibly with higher damage).
@TheStudioArchitectspeaking of short circuit, i wonder what great blue will do it with it tbh, while it's pretty decent, the main downside is that the left click is extremely bad, so it should prob be buffed to be a bit closer to the pistol, but not quite, so it won't be a direct upgrade. as for the pistol, it's mostly okay for it's state, but it deserves a bit of a buff to switch speed to encourage using it more.
"The liberty launcher is a very strange weapon in the context of Soldier's primaries." Has the liberty launcher always seemed like a strange case to you?
i mean, if a soldier is rocket jumping towards you when you look up (rare thing to do), it's reasonable to assume in the first place that they're going for a market garden
if an enemy is flying around the map at mach 10 it can be hard to see specifically what weapon theyre using so youd have to either guess or wait for them to land a kill this would be a good change for both sides
@@MenderMan It's definitely a reasonable assumption (for people who even know what the gardener is, and while that's most people, communicating info intuitively is always good) but it'd be nice to just not have to assume. It doesn't help that the market gardener and standard shovel look pretty similar, and as another reply said it can be hard to pick out quickly. tl;dr it's not a very important change, but would still be a very appreciated one
i know im late, but the market gardener change would actually be an INSANE buff to it. Having the crit glow would mean that when you swing, that swing will be a crit swing, not inflict a crit. What that means is, if you swing the gardener and then land as you hit, it wont work, but with this change it would, giving soldier an extra 0.25 second wiggle room. In short, that would make the gardener insanely tough to fight, and would be kinda busted.
After using the Righteous Bison on casual for 20 minutes, I now wish your changes would be implemented. I love playing with goofy weapons but I remember what it used to be, and my heart sinks for what its become
10:02 blue, as a black box roamer main, the black box actually _increases_ your mobility, and as long as you pick your fights properly, has no downside. pick targets that you can kill in 3 rockets (which you should be doing anyway as roamer), and abuse the fact that the extra healing means you can afford to do way more speedshots, counterintuitively INCREASING your mobility compared to stock. air strike still dominates the mobility board, but the black box with a skilled jumper is a close second. giving me 335 effective health considering how inconsequential its downsides can be given good fight picking skill is not a good idea, blue.
Black box is a very interesting weapon in how polarizing it is. It's, if I remember correctly, since it's been a while since I paid attention to high level TF2, been a cornerstone weapon of roaming soldier for a pretty long time. In a different space in the same game, it's also "only viable with the conch, and that's why it is bad!"
@@Yawyna124 so here's the funny part it's not only viable with conch. CONCH MAKES IT ACTIVELY WORSE. THE CONCH ALREADY HEALS YOU FOR SUSTAINED DAMAGE. THE BLACK BOX IS GOOD AT BURST DAMAGE. USE STOCK OR EVEN AIR STRIKE WITH THE CONCH. BLACK BOX GOES WITH BATALLION'S OR WITH GUNBOATS.
@@a_lexinebut two healing sources all by yourself without doing much is still pretty good. It's not as redundant as, let's say, Fan O' War and Crit-I-Cola. The Black Box Conch can be stacked, the Fan O War and Crit-I-Cola can't.
Same as a soldier, I run shotgun soldier pretty frequently and I feel like I'm playing demo sometimes, the reloading never ends! I'd even be fine with the 3 shot clip Blue mentioned if it auto reloaded, as 3 is probably enough for a back up weapon in a single encounter, and further relegates the weapon to a last resort/purely finisher weapon
When the medic video for this series rolls around, I would love to see discussion about the Syringe Guns reloading passively, as I feel that is realistically what they need most. Any buffs to their direct combat strength would not be a good thing considering the Medic is not supposed to fight. However, this change would allow the Medic to defend himself while falling back to his team without having to wait for a reload before healing his teammates. Of course this change would most likely not bring any of the Syringe Guns up to the Crossbow’s level, but it’s still something they could really use that wouldn’t break Medic’s balance.
Combat viability on the syringe gun is a tight line to walk cause on the one hand I agree it shouldn't be _good_, but also the crossbow already aint bad, making it the best support weapon, as well as the most consistent combat one. Plus the current method of making syringe guns worse, jank and inconsistency, is not the most elegant balancing method even if it does get the job done
Making the MG glow when ready is a cool idea. And I would LOVE anything that makes the Equalizer better lol I have a strange one, it would be a shame if I never got to use it. A Mann can dream...
Another fun idea for the Equalizer might be to also let its deploy speed increase as health drops, to encourage considering pulling it out when low beyond just "well, I already have it equipped." Given it's meant to be a desperation tool already, it kinda reinforces that niche.
Completely agreed!!! I could see it becoming a bit too much in combination with the other buffs, making it a no brainer choice to go for if the range allows it, but I can't tell without testing, could be completely fine
I think the standardized damage for the Equalizer is great and starting at 65 like other melees is good, but adding damage resistance would allow you to be at lower health and hit people/be aggressive. Damage resistance is also a stat that has a lot of general utility
I really like the second Black Box rework at 11:42, you're gaining more health from attacking at the cost of less health from retreating and from your team. Would (theoretically) facilitate a more aggressive solo playstyle while still having the same rocket mechanics and clip size as stock, which makes it really unique when compared to the other rocket launchers.
Agreed! right now it feels the exact opposite, a run away and kite to survive longer kinda deal, and while that's not exactly an invalid niche, it can be annoying as hell to fight, and vamparism mechanics just always feel better imo when they encourage and reward aggression
-Part of the reason the Bison's projectile moves so slow is so it can get more hits on enemies running away from you. It's meant to somewhat match their speed -What's up with the extra Cow Mangler stat on the Buff Banner? Is that an already existing hidden stat? -I think the Market Gardener's change should absolutely apply to the Atomizer too. It doesn't really need it nearly as much as the Market Gardener, but I just think it'd be cool
- I thought the same thing! An increase in the hit box size, and maybe like, a mechanic where hitting the same enemy multiple time deals more damage per hit on said enemy, would make it an effective anti retreat tool. Unsure if it'd be fun or useful, but it'd at least serve a purpose effectively - I'm not blue ofc, but I think the idea was just to make sure the passive side of the weapon wasn't useless for cowmangler users - Agreed, not as important like you said, but any increase in info conveyed I think is good (as long as it doesn't clutter the screen ofc)
Whilst I think the 40% ammo pool addition for the buff banner is certainly welcome, reducing its time to charge might be too kind. I use the Buff Banner regularly, and I think its pretty much on par with its contemporaries. Mini-crits are hella good!
hell yeah brother. i picked it up recently and just hit 1000 Banners blown. its changed games for me winning matches where defeat seemed certain, and while i'd love a passive buff, especially something like extra reserve ammo, i think its either you reduce the charge or go with a passive. you could do both by dropping the damage to 540 (600 for the backup and 480 for the conch), and then give it a 25% extra reserve ammo buff. but you cant go much stronger than that for either change, otherwise it'd stomp. minicrits are a powerful thing and they cant be given to a whole team too easily
I'd like to see the charged shot to do more damage, but have a mechanic where your launcher is disabled for a short period after you use it. This would basically make it a high risk, high reward mechanic. On one hand, you could use it on every Tom, Dick and Harry you cross paths with, but then if you run into someone else while your launcher is cooling, then you only have your secondary and melee to save you. As for the air strike, maybe make it fully reload on kill that could be overpowered though.
@@williamnixon3994 Never said in place, but maybe a quick reload after you kill someone. Sometimes 8 rockets just doesn't kill an enemy and then you'd have to reload fully, but with this idea you'd reload instantly or faster the moment you get a kill. Could be overpowered or completely garbage.
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Maybe have it not fire until the clip is fully reloaded afterward?
The problem with this is Shotguns aren't weak, you're able to 3-shot everyone who isn't heavy. It just means you lose synergy with banners while gaining it with shotguns which already remove the downside of Soldier's low ammo primary frequent reloading.
after using the Liberty Launcher for a while, i think the best way to "fix" it would be to give it some more reload speed in exchange for reducing the rocket speed buff by half, turning it into a more reliable option (a crutch if you will) when paired with banners
I feel like all the liberty launcher needs to be is like direct hit training wheels, like same projectile speed but still using splash damage so that you can get used to it
I think a slightly better addition to the equalizer is to add a deploy speed bonus, possibly scaling with health lost, with that you could really make some good desperation plays. Though I admit it does require one of the other suggestions to make it really viable/fun.
@@AoMohammed the conch gives passive regen and the active gives you hp back proportional to your damage, making the rework effectively doubling down on health on hit
For the bison, I keep thinking of the MIB noisy cricket crossover from that old mobile game Respawnables. One shot, knocks you back but does a TON of damage and is very rough if you miss.
As a beggar's main myself, the last sentence of that section it great! "While I agree that the beggar's is easily one of the highest skill ceiling launchers in the game as it is, I don't think that's a reason to leave it with a luck based mechanic" COULDNT HAVE SAID IT BETTER, great work blue (Great vid btw)
For the bison. . . It absolutely does have a Niche in MvM. It’s a Tank Busting weapon with its many hits. It can do just as good if not better than the Phlog at times.
Very interesting suggestions, looking forward to the medic video. There's a lot of potential in reworking medic's underused weapons. Speaking as a medic main, I feel like medic is the class with the least variety in his gameplay. There's really only one viable way to play as him, and the ubiquity of the crossbow/ubersaw exemplify this. None of medic's other primaries or melees offer as much utility and they aren't really that fun to use. Battle Medic is by far the worst subclass in the game and even if you have godlike aim with your syringe gun or crossbow, you'll still be little more than a nuisance to the enemy team.
I mean I purely use the overdose, the amount of times the movement speed save me and my Uber for better use later is really under valued. Definitely not better than the crossbow for defending yourself or helping the team but definitely worth a try in preserving yourself. While it isn’t really worth 9 times out of 10 pairing it with the vital for a faster rollout from spawn is sometimes nice.
i know im late, but that last market gardener change would actually be an INSANE buff to it. Having the crit glow would mean that when you swing, that swing will be a crit swing, not inflict a crit. What that means is, if you swing the gardener and then land as you hit, it wont work, but with this change it would, giving soldier an extra 0.25 second wiggle room. In short, that would make the gardener insanely tough to fight, and would be kinda busted.
17:26 honestly, they should just make the reserve shooter no longer equipable by Pyro since the only reason they made it multiclass was because of airblast to crit combo.
-15% damage penalty does NOT outweigh all of the upsides for the Liberty Launcher rework. It would be way to broken. Also as a *Liberty Launcher Enthusiast,* the Liberty is super good paired with the Reserve shooter (yknow, the thing that does Mini-crits to airborne enemies???) So taking that away from it but putting that in the same item set does not work out and makes it a direct downgrade. I think the best rework would just to make it so they do more knock back. This has so many obvious benefits that I’m not even gonna explain them unless someone needs me too. Thank you for coming to my Ted-Talk
15:57 Do you remember what the old base jumper used to do? You could strafe so tightly and at such high speed that even hitting hitscan shots was extremely unreliable. Your most realistic option was to hit some of your shots from a minigun.
@@Ulysses_-vv5uh Do you *really* know what the old base jumper looked like though? I don't see how a decent sniper player can reliably hit a headshot on a target moving so frantically. Unless the soldier is below 150HP and you have a fully charged shot ready, I doubt the sniper player stands a chance.
I feel like the biggest solution to the old BASE Jumper would be to just drastically punish you for taking hits in the air, enough that even chip damage potshots would significantly increase falling speed. It doesn't really affect the Air Strike set, since you need to be close to your targets to circumvent falloff, and it avoids the issue it used to have where you couldn't hit it with actual damage dealers since a few shotgun or pistol hits will send them careening to a disadvantageous position. I LOVE the Double Jump idea, though.
Mantreads, Reworks for me: 1. 75% More self-knockback + you are able to strafe after being airblasted 2. 75% less fall damage and 25% more self-knockback, with strafing after airblast aswell
Passive reload on reserve shooter would be so great. I often am torn between it and stock on soldier and that change would definitely get me to play with it more often. Also great equalizer idea
Air strike buff concept: When you equip it you get the base jumper with it automatically without equipping it If you equip the base jumper on top of that you can close it and redeploy it 2 times before landing per jump
I like the idea of having the base jumper be an alternative gunboats with the blast resistance, but I feel like with the ability of the base jumper to completely negate fall damage plus blast resistance is a bit much. So what if the base jumper made you tale increased fall damage whenever you didn’t parachute? it’d force the player to make themselves vulnerable mid air, while also hugely reduce the damage from jumping and landing if they remember to parachute, which makes it more fun and rewarding to use properly sorry if this was long lol
The problem with that is it would mess up alot of role outs when they want to keep there momentum. Also the design with the blast resistance still can only deploy once meaning to avoid fall damage you would either have to keep your jumps low and lose the height and air time that the base jumper encourages. Or if you jump high you either have to keep it deployed and leave yourself vulnerable or pull it back in and take the fall damage Plus your still giving up alot of utility from the other weapons
I was actually thinking of a way to buff the Buff Banner recently, and I was thinking of a passive bonus of faster reload. It fits with the more offensive play style and will help when deploying the banner since you can put out more mini crit rockets.
This could be an awesome idea :O It'd have to be slight I feel like, or else risk being broken, but something like a 10% increase (random number based on no info) could be enough to be convenient while not breaking anything. And outright replacing the ammo passive buff with this one would make ammo management a bit more of an important aspect, which I think is a fair tradeoff, if not an underwhelming one given you still _have_ the same amount of ammo, just go through it faster
My Tomislav change suggestions: +accuracy buff increased from 20% to 90% +10% faster movement speed overall and while rev'd up +silent killer perk and faster rev speed stay the same -fire rate nerf increased from 20% to 25% -only causes flinching at close range -only causes knockback at close range -reduced knockback -steeper damage falloff curve -50 maximum health
I've actually been using the liberty launcher, reserve shooter and market gardener as part of my all green soldier loadout with military/camo cosmetics. The liberty launcher and reserve shooter are surprisingly viable weapons if you can land shots and I found a fair bit of counterplay against pyros and in long engagements because people just don't expect you to have another faster rocket up your sleeve. Reserve shooter is a little situational but I've always liked shotguns anyway.
i won't lie, the Equalizer rework #2 is absolutely awesome. also imagine a soldier winning a 1v6 by just managing to finish off every enemy with the Equalizer
I've actually taken up using the Liberty Launcher quite often, as I'm trying to practice the Liberty Launcher and Reserve Shooter combination, plus, I find the increased projectile speed to be very funny to throw off Pyros, so, having the faster holster speed added to it would be nice (though, it could have a faster deploy speed too? Just not as fast as holstering). Next, the Reserve Shooter having a slight increase to its accuracy (as in, reduced bullet spread) would make the weapon more consistent with its use case, I'm all for that, honestly. Lastly, I have one way to change the Black Box (which I posted on Steam discussions a while back), which is to increase the buff duration of the Soldier's banners in exchange for the heal on hit, so, while you still lose out on one rocket in the clip, the added buff duration would even it out as a great support tool.
I always thought that The Righteuous Bison's multi-hit could be reworked into "On hit: Briefly slow down the projectile" so it helps itself hit the same target over and over again until they get out of its way, even though it may ruin the concept of using it against a fleeing enemy as they'd be going the same direction as the projectile unless a slow on hit was also added, or projectile speed heavily increased
The Cow Mangler is one of my favorite looking weapons, personally I wish the Charge Shot was a bit faster and instead dealt full damage to Machines but dealt it over time instead, like a giant Sapper blast.
Just a thought on bison projectile speed/tick damage, what if the projectile did tick damage still, had a fast projectile, but the projectile would slow down once it crosses the target's hitbox. Could even experiment with slowing per target hitbox intersected and dissipate after the 4th (damage to scale down so you cant get 1,000 damage on the 4th guy) to emulate energy loss. Also for the Mangler, what if the charge shot could penetrate targets for as long as you hold M2, doing bison-like damage or igniting them and detonating once it hits an object or the next target after releasing M2 (alternatively use a charge meter like loose cannon does to preset the det range) Projectile penetration to fit in with bison/grordbort, and the ability to get past body blocking ubers etc without being spammable so you can disable backline sentries at the cost of a delayed reload. Also detonating just behind someone to launch them towards you for a combo to shovel or reserve shooter could be a lot of fun.
Call me crazy, but I honestly feel like the best solution for the equalizer is to give it the eviction notice treatment, and give it a weaker version of the escape plan speed buff. That way they both fill a niche: EP is a more reliable getaway, while equalizer gives you a better chance to run up close and hit hard enough to kill. Maybe give it the bushwacka’s damage vulnerability to balance it out and make it still less punishing than EP
I feel like there is a way to "Have your cake and eat it" with regards to a multi hitting bison: You steal from Moira's orbs and have the projectile move quickly when not in contact with an enemy, and slowing down when actually dealing damage
surprised you didnt do a cool and unique approach to the bison where it's got two speeds: fast before it hits, and slow once it hits, to keep the tick damage while making it harder to dodge
I thought the same thing, and have seen others mention it as well. I wouldn't know unless it got tested, but I could think of a couple reasons it may not work out. It could be un-fun and confusing for those being hit, obviously being hit isn't fun but I mean to the point of being annoying. It could be unreliable/confusing for the _user_ too, having to consider two projectile speeds, where one kicks in, and considering if it even will kick in since you might miss. It could just be even more jank and inconsistent!!!! That ofc assumes it's programmed kinda poorly, which is a fair assumption knowing tf2, but one that could just be ignored for the sake of discussion. Though the inconsistency might still be a factor even if it was implemented perfectly
An idea I had for the Equalizer was to make the damage scaling not based on your health, but on the hit enemy, increasing damage based on how much health they have, making it so at 125 it would do the default 65, scaling up to around 225 for a fully overhealed heavy (450 hp) (and not scaling further because MvM), but not scaling down below 65. This would make it a weapon that could be used either to ambush big enemies or make desperate atempts at killing or severely wounding someone healed by a medic.
That'd be a very interesting concept :O it could in effect be a more moderate market gardener for some, dealing high damage to most, but trading the one shot potential on squishy classes for a better follow up. I could see that fitting as a new weapon as well, along side the proposed equalizer changes (though it _does_ fit the name "Equalizer" pretty well)
In tc2, the liberty launcher gives increased push force which is very similar to your rebalance for it other than not having the blast jump damage reduction and holster speed bonus.
In regards of the Liberty Launcher, I like the current stat as it is, that minus 25% damage is awful, but I think, to compensate, it should have little to no damage fall off, making the Liberty Launcher consistent in damage regardless of distance. The max damage ramp up would probably deal 90ish damage which is inferior to stock, but the fact that Liberty Launcher has no damage fall off, I think it would be a good sidegrade as a long range spam projectiles.
That might make it too powerful, since you can stand at long range where only a sniper can hurt you and contest the objective. It also means it doubles as the Air Strike, you use your bonus rocket to fly and use the 4 to deal full damage without a penalty.
4:49 This is actually how the Beggar's accuracy loss works, but it's not really noticeable outside of MvM. Yea, you get the base inaccuracy that stacks much higher because of how fast you're shooting. ps. man I'd love to have rework 2 black box
for the righteous bison, what I would've done is make the projectile super slow, but really big and wide, making it an area denial tool but that would probably suck to fight against since it would just get spammed down chokes
I think it was Fish who made the suggestion for the Liberty Launcher being Soldier's combo Rocket Launcher and I've found it to be pretty decent at that when paired with the Panic Attack, so a switch speed increase would be an easy change to encourage this identity. Edit: Hey you did that! Huzzah! I love combo rocket.
Your ideas for the equalizer are awesome. I love the idea of taking the risk of charging at an enemy with melee while at low health for the potential gain of a second wind. Could also be a fun finisher tool to undo the tolls of the fight on a roaming soldier.
Part of why I mostly use the Liberty Launcher is because of the faster firing speed, without the blast radius reduction of the Direct Hit. It's just enough of a "third category" speed-wise that most pyros have a hard time deflecting it, while also helping me hit moving targets more easily (especially duos), as well as making long-range combat more reliable (even if the damage is lower)
For some reason I imagined the video would start with a Soldier doing the conga on a cart's tracks talking about a couple things before kill binding and properly starting the video.
somewhat interesting thought for the beggars - what if the rockets were gravity effected? not as heavily as demo's projectiles, but a lot more of a gradual fall while still traveling for quite a distance horizontally
I think one thing that would be interesting for all grordbort weapons is reduced clip size in exchange for increased damage (with the building damage penalty kept). This would make them slightly more in line with the concept of them all coming from the same place, while having compl troy different gimmicks on top that allow the user to feel like they're not just using a reskin of another, similar, weapon on a different class.
Can you imagine if we make the liberty launcher a combo weapon. I can imagine god soldiers rocket jumping in, while in the air, shooting at your feet launching you in the air and then gardening you before you can hit the ground
i could definitely go for the beggars changes, and i seriously wish that the panic attack would be reverted and a different shotgun would take the stats of the modern version, cause the old panic attack and beggars paired well for a very high energy chaotic soldier build
Liberty Launcher could have an oddly coded explosion which trades the standard blast for one with more vertical push than horizontal, comboing with the Reserve shooter but also giving some fun Airshot potential, either setting up for Reserve shooter or launching them down into the dirt
One of my ideas for giving the cowmangler extra utility: Right click after firing a charge shot (Pyro's detonator style), after which the charged shot bursts into smaller beams which head straight out from the center in a burst, each beam being equivalent to the bison pre nerf However, detonating the charged shot would remove its building disabling utilities
![F.HERO Ft. JSPKK x ลำไย ไหทองคำ x M-PEE - ไม่สนิทบิดหมด (Thai Riders Anthem) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kPJZ0UihBfk/mqdefault.jpg)
I've always thought the perfect way to fix the Liberty Launcher is to give it increased pushback against enemies so you can combo it with the Reserve Shooter since it's part of the original set
Would also fit in with how it works in MvM, as robot soldiers using it have insane knockback
@@walukirbycant wait to see a scout fly all over the map because he got hit by a crocket
Same thing here, replace the +40% faster projectile speed with a +35% knockback bonus.
It would also make it more useful for rocket jumping, making it a side grade to the Rocket Jumper when it comes to market gardening
@@gladoseon4117yes, infact id say that the Liberty launcher's niche should be a rocket launcher with better rocket jumps, give it a larger explosion radius and remove the faster projectile speed to hammer this role in and you have a side grade to the rocket jumper.
the cow manglers charge shot can actually already destroy sticky bombs. Though I'm sure barely anyone knows this cause in typical Valve fashion the gordbort weapons need 17 different hidden stats
emptying your clip just to destroy some sticky bombs is a pretty high cost though
@@coreypark3244that is true but it doesn't take too long to reload
Valve added it to 'fix' an exploit. If you shoot charged shot at stickies, they couldn't be destroyed or moved.
yes thank you! i'm a cow mangler enthusiast and i was screaming internally when he said charge shots should destroy stickies, because it already does that.
I had no idea that was the case lol. It's such a niche situation
honestly, the cow mangler's identity to me is the rocket launcher that does the funny fizzle ragdolls. But making it still do that AND have utility outside? that's the stuff
Man cowgler
Man cowgler
man cowgler
Man cowgler
Man cowgler
I think a vital change for the black box is to make it have 4 barrels like the weapon its based off of but have a loaf of bread jammed in one of them for lore reasons
Rockets are too big to upscale the BB into a M202 Flash quad launcher
just give it smaller rockets then lol
I unironically think the BASE jumper allowing you to hover while on fire should be brought back.
I mean, it would make sense, but then it'd be easier for people to hit you.
Make fire give you _upward_ momentum instead. Makes even more sense, and gives you more air time.
HOT AIR BALOON
I hate that valve removed that.
@@ghoulbuster1they removed it because soldiers would light them selfs on fire with cowvmangler charge shots to hover and get eazy market gardens. Removing it was probably good
@@mohammadwaled409 tbf, if you cannot kill a soldier who took out over half of his health and is literally a glowing orange target moving in a straight line at you with a melee weapon, it feels a little bit like a skill issue. But Dusks idea giving you upward momentum instead would make it much harder to abuse for market gardening and is kinda cool.
A note about the Black Box as myself medic main.
A BB soldier with the reduced healing from other sources ides would be far more advantageous for the medic as the Uber build up would be nuts. And just letting the soilder hit himself with a few rockets would be one of if not the best Uber battery available.
Would be a nightmare for comp plays as you get near infinite Uber build-up.
At the cost of the soulders' natural durability. Which is huge.
At this point valve should make it so that healing penalties don't build Uber for medics.
what if, a la razorback, we instead gave it a -100% overheal nerf? there used to be that thing where you'd never hit cap while healing a sniper, so it was a good uber building tool, but they patched that, and you gain uber at half the rate once the sniper is full health. so do the same thing with the black box. then it becomes a question of how much more do we tack onto that? if we still limited the amount of healing gained by both medics/dispensers, AND health packs, then at that point you'd definitely need to give it back the 4th rocket, but considering soldier already has 2 melees that slow his heal rate, i don't really want to compound the same downside.
It doesn't matter because you can just add it to the list of banned weapons.
If we balance all weapons with comp in mind, you will ruin every unique weapon into the ground.
@@poyloos4834 -100% overheal is really bad for soldier to deal with, also. On sniper, it's only moderately bad because, generally, it's counter-snipe protection since they shouldn't be getting too into everyone else's face. But Soldier's entire role is to get into everyone's face, so removing one of the big ways that soldier can be a viable meat-shield for the rest of the team pigeonholes the black box really harshly. It's already mainly a roamer weapon, but removing overheal just means that a roaming soldier is dramatically limited in attempting to support a medic if need be - something that has never really been a primary sniper role.
scout already has the basher
The thing with Liberty Launcher is that it always felt like it was meant to combo with the shotguns, but just missed the point entirely.
And honestly? I would love to see Liberty Launcher reworked into a rocket launcher leaning into combo'ing with shotguns as _let's be real for a moment, shotguns on soldier are rarely used when gunboats and banners exist._
im a hipster who uses reserve shooter on soldier
YES COMBO LAUNCHER
I regularly amass absurd killstreaks with just the original and the shotgun. The usefulness of the stock shotgun shouldn’t be understated.
On hit enemy gets a damage vulnerability to bullet weapons
@@calebbarnhouse496 Not bullet weapons specifically. Maybe on-hit enemy gets general damage vulnerability in case you want to combo with your melee.
21:30 Imagine Bison just had alt. fire and so you could left click for a fast shot right for a slow.
Imagine if you could shoot a slow and a fast together by clicking both at once too.
Left click for spamable, fast-moving projectiles, like a projectile pistol that pierces targets, at the cost of each projectile not doing a lot of damage. Left click to send a slow moving charge that does its damage over and over again as you remain in its considerably longer hitbox but can't be fired as quickly.
Click both to fire a shot that is halfway in between and is essentially identical to the current build (possibly with higher damage).
I actually love this idea and it can keep the spirit of the old AOE weapon while adding a 1v1 duelist capability to combat snipers and pyros.
I could dig that. Especially if it penetrates and causes damage to the same target multiple times. Would punish people for running away.
@TheStudioArchitectspeaking of short circuit, i wonder what great blue will do it with it tbh, while it's pretty decent, the main downside is that the left click is extremely bad, so it should prob be buffed to be a bit closer to the pistol, but not quite, so it won't be a direct upgrade.
as for the pistol, it's mostly okay for it's state, but it deserves a bit of a buff to switch speed to encourage using it more.
"The liberty launcher is a very strange weapon in the context of Soldier's primaries."
Has the liberty launcher always seemed like a strange case to you?
on one hand, it's one of soldier's most versatile primaries
On the other hand, it is rather mediocre and does not excel at anything.
It sits in a weird middle ground of trying to be a jack of all trades, but it's more like an eight of all trades.
This joke sux
@@PurpleBroadcastwould you say that this joke has always seemed like a strange case to you?
Having the Market Gardener glow is also good for the enemy as they are more aware of what's about to happen and may react properly.
i mean, if a soldier is rocket jumping towards you when you look up (rare thing to do), it's reasonable to assume in the first place that they're going for a market garden
if an enemy is flying around the map at mach 10 it can be hard to see specifically what weapon theyre using
so youd have to either guess or wait for them to land a kill
this would be a good change for both sides
@@MenderMan It's definitely a reasonable assumption (for people who even know what the gardener is, and while that's most people, communicating info intuitively is always good) but it'd be nice to just not have to assume. It doesn't help that the market gardener and standard shovel look pretty similar, and as another reply said it can be hard to pick out quickly.
tl;dr it's not a very important change, but would still be a very appreciated one
i know im late, but the market gardener change would actually be an INSANE buff to it. Having the crit glow would mean that when you swing, that swing will be a crit swing, not inflict a crit. What that means is, if you swing the gardener and then land as you hit, it wont work, but with this change it would, giving soldier an extra 0.25 second wiggle room. In short, that would make the gardener insanely tough to fight, and would be kinda busted.
As the bison apologist, i absolutley love the changes you proposed. You have made bovines everywhere proud.
I will cowmangle you
After using the Righteous Bison on casual for 20 minutes, I now wish your changes would be implemented. I love playing with goofy weapons but I remember what it used to be, and my heart sinks for what its become
10:02
blue, as a black box roamer main, the black box actually _increases_ your mobility, and as long as you pick your fights properly, has no downside.
pick targets that you can kill in 3 rockets (which you should be doing anyway as roamer), and abuse the fact that the extra healing means you can afford to do way more speedshots, counterintuitively INCREASING your mobility compared to stock. air strike still dominates the mobility board, but the black box with a skilled jumper is a close second.
giving me 335 effective health considering how inconsequential its downsides can be given good fight picking skill is not a good idea, blue.
Black box is a very interesting weapon in how polarizing it is. It's, if I remember correctly, since it's been a while since I paid attention to high level TF2, been a cornerstone weapon of roaming soldier for a pretty long time. In a different space in the same game, it's also "only viable with the conch, and that's why it is bad!"
@@Yawyna124 so here's the funny part
it's not only viable with conch. CONCH MAKES IT ACTIVELY WORSE.
THE CONCH ALREADY HEALS YOU FOR SUSTAINED DAMAGE. THE BLACK BOX IS GOOD AT BURST DAMAGE. USE STOCK OR EVEN AIR STRIKE WITH THE CONCH. BLACK BOX GOES WITH BATALLION'S OR WITH GUNBOATS.
@@a_lexinebut two healing sources all by yourself without doing much is still pretty good. It's not as redundant as, let's say, Fan O' War and Crit-I-Cola. The Black Box Conch can be stacked, the Fan O War and Crit-I-Cola can't.
@@a_lexineor with shotgun for extra dmg
As a pyro that frequently forgets that shotguns don’t auto reload, I really like the auto reload idea for the reserve shooter
Same as a soldier, I run shotgun soldier pretty frequently and I feel like I'm playing demo sometimes, the reloading never ends! I'd even be fine with the 3 shot clip Blue mentioned if it auto reloaded, as 3 is probably enough for a back up weapon in a single encounter, and further relegates the weapon to a last resort/purely finisher weapon
When the medic video for this series rolls around, I would love to see discussion about the Syringe Guns reloading passively, as I feel that is realistically what they need most. Any buffs to their direct combat strength would not be a good thing considering the Medic is not supposed to fight. However, this change would allow the Medic to defend himself while falling back to his team without having to wait for a reload before healing his teammates. Of course this change would most likely not bring any of the Syringe Guns up to the Crossbow’s level, but it’s still something they could really use that wouldn’t break Medic’s balance.
Combat viability on the syringe gun is a tight line to walk cause on the one hand I agree it shouldn't be _good_, but also the crossbow already aint bad, making it the best support weapon, as well as the most consistent combat one. Plus the current method of making syringe guns worse, jank and inconsistency, is not the most elegant balancing method even if it does get the job done
Making the MG glow when ready is a cool idea. And I would LOVE anything that makes the Equalizer better lol I have a strange one, it would be a shame if I never got to use it.
A Mann can dream...
Another fun idea for the Equalizer might be to also let its deploy speed increase as health drops, to encourage considering pulling it out when low beyond just "well, I already have it equipped." Given it's meant to be a desperation tool already, it kinda reinforces that niche.
Completely agreed!!! I could see it becoming a bit too much in combination with the other buffs, making it a no brainer choice to go for if the range allows it, but I can't tell without testing, could be completely fine
I think the standardized damage for the Equalizer is great and starting at 65 like other melees is good, but adding damage resistance would allow you to be at lower health and hit people/be aggressive. Damage resistance is also a stat that has a lot of general utility
I thought that too, but it would have to only apply when the Equalizer is out and even then it might still be too much.
the problem with the damage resistance is that the weapon would be used like the heavy´s fists of steel
This would make it a direct upgrade from stock though
@@Hithere-uz6wd just like every single other soldier melee in the game
@@Underworlder5 Idk why I said that
Really love the changes idea, especially the second liberty launcher buff. Thanks for coming up with ideas that create new, fun niches :)
I really like the second Black Box rework at 11:42, you're gaining more health from attacking at the cost of less health from retreating and from your team. Would (theoretically) facilitate a more aggressive solo playstyle while still having the same rocket mechanics and clip size as stock, which makes it really unique when compared to the other rocket launchers.
Agreed! right now it feels the exact opposite, a run away and kite to survive longer kinda deal, and while that's not exactly an invalid niche, it can be annoying as hell to fight, and vamparism mechanics just always feel better imo when they encourage and reward aggression
I feel like literally every player would end up using it then unless you had a pocket.
-Part of the reason the Bison's projectile moves so slow is so it can get more hits on enemies running away from you. It's meant to somewhat match their speed
-What's up with the extra Cow Mangler stat on the Buff Banner? Is that an already existing hidden stat?
-I think the Market Gardener's change should absolutely apply to the Atomizer too. It doesn't really need it nearly as much as the Market Gardener, but I just think it'd be cool
- I thought the same thing! An increase in the hit box size, and maybe like, a mechanic where hitting the same enemy multiple time deals more damage per hit on said enemy, would make it an effective anti retreat tool. Unsure if it'd be fun or useful, but it'd at least serve a purpose effectively
- I'm not blue ofc, but I think the idea was just to make sure the passive side of the weapon wasn't useless for cowmangler users
- Agreed, not as important like you said, but any increase in info conveyed I think is good (as long as it doesn't clutter the screen ofc)
"The Righteous Bison has nothing to its name"
*stares at outdamaging Phlogistinator on tanks in MvM*
Rather funny how close we've gotten quite close to the Buff Banner and 1st Bison and BASE Jumper fixes.
Whilst I think the 40% ammo pool addition for the buff banner is certainly welcome, reducing its time to charge might be too kind. I use the Buff Banner regularly, and I think its pretty much on par with its contemporaries. Mini-crits are hella good!
hell yeah brother. i picked it up recently and just hit 1000 Banners blown. its changed games for me winning matches where defeat seemed certain, and while i'd love a passive buff, especially something like extra reserve ammo, i think its either you reduce the charge or go with a passive. you could do both by dropping the damage to 540 (600 for the backup and 480 for the conch), and then give it a 25% extra reserve ammo buff. but you cant go much stronger than that for either change, otherwise it'd stomp. minicrits are a powerful thing and they cant be given to a whole team too easily
I'd like to see the charged shot to do more damage, but have a mechanic where your launcher is disabled for a short period after you use it. This would basically make it a high risk, high reward mechanic. On one hand, you could use it on every Tom, Dick and Harry you cross paths with, but then if you run into someone else while your launcher is cooling, then you only have your secondary and melee to save you.
As for the air strike, maybe make it fully reload on kill that could be overpowered though.
I wonder; how would a 'does not need to reload while blast jumping' stat work on the Air Strike in place of the current snowball idea?
@@williamnixon3994 Never said in place, but maybe a quick reload after you kill someone. Sometimes 8 rockets just doesn't kill an enemy and then you'd have to reload fully, but with this idea you'd reload instantly or faster the moment you get a kill. Could be overpowered or completely garbage.
Maybe have it not fire until the clip is fully reloaded afterward?
The problem with this is Shotguns aren't weak, you're able to 3-shot everyone who isn't heavy.
It just means you lose synergy with banners while gaining it with shotguns which already remove the downside of Soldier's low ammo primary frequent reloading.
after using the Liberty Launcher for a while, i think the best way to "fix" it would be to give it some more reload speed in exchange for reducing the rocket speed buff by half, turning it into a more reliable option (a crutch if you will) when paired with banners
I feel like all the liberty launcher needs to be is like direct hit training wheels, like same projectile speed but still using splash damage so that you can get used to it
No, it needs higher swap speed so you can combo better with a shotgun
I think a slightly better addition to the equalizer is to add a deploy speed bonus, possibly scaling with health lost, with that you could really make some good desperation plays. Though I admit it does require one of the other suggestions to make it really viable/fun.
If it starts with 65 damage then its objectively better than stock
I think you missed a big problem with the black box: it’s synergy with the backup and the conch
The back up is intentional but the conch is aids
The black box rework has 2 healing penalties and is in the same item set as the backup.
@@AoMohammed the conch gives passive regen and the active gives you hp back proportional to your damage, making the rework effectively doubling down on health on hit
@@C0DY420 except with the rework, the conch healing would be neutered
@@C0DY420 maybe make it so that its unaffected by item's that apply heal on hit like mad milk.
I never thought of valve being "allergic" to updates 😂
For the bison, I keep thinking of the MIB noisy cricket crossover from that old mobile game Respawnables. One shot, knocks you back but does a TON of damage and is very rough if you miss.
As a beggar's main myself, the last sentence of that section it great! "While I agree that the beggar's is easily one of the highest skill ceiling launchers in the game as it is, I don't think that's a reason to leave it with a luck based mechanic" COULDNT HAVE SAID IT BETTER, great work blue (Great vid btw)
...but it's still fun to just see the rockets go in random directions and watch the poor medic trying to avoid the volley
“Stubborn Soldier and Demo players who refuse to switch to hitscan”
FUCKING THANK YOU
you might be the only person in history to think the black box needs a buff
For the bison. . . It absolutely does have a Niche in MvM.
It’s a Tank Busting weapon with its many hits. It can do just as good if not better than the Phlog at times.
Very interesting suggestions, looking forward to the medic video. There's a lot of potential in reworking medic's underused weapons.
Speaking as a medic main, I feel like medic is the class with the least variety in his gameplay. There's really only one viable way to play as him, and the ubiquity of the crossbow/ubersaw exemplify this. None of medic's other primaries or melees offer as much utility and they aren't really that fun to use.
Battle Medic is by far the worst subclass in the game and even if you have godlike aim with your syringe gun or crossbow, you'll still be little more than a nuisance to the enemy team.
I mean I purely use the overdose, the amount of times the movement speed save me and my Uber for better use later is really under valued. Definitely not better than the crossbow for defending yourself or helping the team but definitely worth a try in preserving yourself. While it isn’t really worth 9 times out of 10 pairing it with the vital for a faster rollout from spawn is sometimes nice.
i know im late, but that last market gardener change would actually be an INSANE buff to it. Having the crit glow would mean that when you swing, that swing will be a crit swing, not inflict a crit. What that means is, if you swing the gardener and then land as you hit, it wont work, but with this change it would, giving soldier an extra 0.25 second wiggle room. In short, that would make the gardener insanely tough to fight, and would be kinda busted.
0:02 life could be a dream.
17:26 honestly, they should just make the reserve shooter no longer equipable by Pyro since the only reason they made it multiclass was because of airblast to crit combo.
Bad weapons in tf2 have always seemed like a strange case to me
How to get likes:
-15% damage penalty does NOT outweigh all of the upsides for the Liberty Launcher rework. It would be way to broken.
Also as a *Liberty Launcher Enthusiast,* the Liberty is super good paired with the Reserve shooter
(yknow, the thing that does Mini-crits to airborne enemies???)
So taking that away from it but putting that in the same item set does not work out and makes it a direct downgrade.
I think the best rework would just to make it so they do more knock back.
This has so many obvious benefits that I’m not even gonna explain them unless someone needs me too.
Thank you for coming to my Ted-Talk
I think the airstrike is supposed to be an airstrike
15:57 Do you remember what the old base jumper used to do? You could strafe so tightly and at such high speed that even hitting hitscan shots was extremely unreliable. Your most realistic option was to hit some of your shots from a minigun.
Or have a single decent sniper
@@Ulysses_-vv5uh Do you *really* know what the old base jumper looked like though?
I don't see how a decent sniper player can reliably hit a headshot on a target moving so frantically. Unless the soldier is below 150HP and you have a fully charged shot ready, I doubt the sniper player stands a chance.
I feel like the biggest solution to the old BASE Jumper would be to just drastically punish you for taking hits in the air, enough that even chip damage potshots would significantly increase falling speed. It doesn't really affect the Air Strike set, since you need to be close to your targets to circumvent falloff, and it avoids the issue it used to have where you couldn't hit it with actual damage dealers since a few shotgun or pistol hits will send them careening to a disadvantageous position.
I LOVE the Double Jump idea, though.
Actually if sacrifice animals to the Allfather on a weekly basis, the random spread on the Beggars will always drift towards your enemies
Bad weaponsin TF2 have always seemed like a strange case to me
Stolen comment
19:57 The Righteous Bison also has a niche use in MVM as a tank busting tool for soldier.
Bad weapons have always been a strange case to me
WHY DOES EVERYONE SAY THIS
Oh wait i get it
@@ooooothatsshit158 great blue's "giving reskins unique stats" video has always been a strange case to me
@@badideagenerator2315 what are you talking about? I thought you are talking about bad weapons we get from STRANGE case.
@@madkoala2130strange cases have always been a strange case to me
Mantreads, Reworks for me:
1. 75% More self-knockback + you are able to strafe after being airblasted
2. 75% less fall damage and 25% more self-knockback, with strafing after airblast aswell
Number 1 is a roamers wet dream
Number 2 is to pair it better with less blast damage rocket launchers
just give 8 seconds of bleed to all weapons
to make the bison multi hit work you could just speed up the projectile when its not doing damage & slow it down when it is
Yeah that was my thought
The bad weapons in tf2 have always been a strange case to me.
Stolen comment
@@Hithere-uz6wd No lol?
Passive reload on reserve shooter would be so great. I often am torn between it and stock on soldier and that change would definitely get me to play with it more often. Also great equalizer idea
The worst weapons in TF2 have always seemed like a strange case to me.
Stolen comment
Air strike buff concept:
When you equip it you get the base jumper with it automatically without equipping it
If you equip the base jumper on top of that you can close it and redeploy it 2 times before landing per jump
I like the idea of having the base jumper be an alternative gunboats with the blast resistance, but I feel like with the ability of the base jumper to completely negate fall damage plus blast resistance is a bit much. So what if the base jumper made you tale increased fall damage whenever you didn’t parachute? it’d force the player to make themselves vulnerable mid air, while also hugely reduce the damage from jumping and landing if they remember to parachute, which makes it more fun and rewarding to use properly
sorry if this was long lol
The problem with that is it would mess up alot of role outs when they want to keep there momentum. Also the design with the blast resistance still can only deploy once meaning to avoid fall damage you would either have to keep your jumps low and lose the height and air time that the base jumper encourages. Or if you jump high you either have to keep it deployed and leave yourself vulnerable or pull it back in and take the fall damage
Plus your still giving up alot of utility from the other weapons
Are you really that introverted?
@@Hithere-uz6wd we both wish it was otherwise, haha
I was actually thinking of a way to buff the Buff Banner recently, and I was thinking of a passive bonus of faster reload. It fits with the more offensive play style and will help when deploying the banner since you can put out more mini crit rockets.
This could be an awesome idea :O
It'd have to be slight I feel like, or else risk being broken, but something like a 10% increase (random number based on no info) could be enough to be convenient while not breaking anything. And outright replacing the ammo passive buff with this one would make ammo management a bit more of an important aspect, which I think is a fair tradeoff, if not an underwhelming one given you still _have_ the same amount of ammo, just go through it faster
How'd I get here?
Sex
Maybe
Liberty launcher fix
-20% faster reloading speed
Fixed
My Tomislav change suggestions:
+accuracy buff increased from 20% to 90%
+10% faster movement speed overall and while rev'd up
+silent killer perk and faster rev speed stay the same
-fire rate nerf increased from 20% to 25%
-only causes flinching at close range
-only causes knockback at close range
-reduced knockback
-steeper damage falloff curve
-50 maximum health
I've actually been using the liberty launcher, reserve shooter and market gardener as part of my all green soldier loadout with military/camo cosmetics. The liberty launcher and reserve shooter are surprisingly viable weapons if you can land shots and I found a fair bit of counterplay against pyros and in long engagements because people just don't expect you to have another faster rocket up your sleeve. Reserve shooter is a little situational but I've always liked shotguns anyway.
i won't lie, the Equalizer rework #2 is absolutely awesome.
also imagine a soldier winning a 1v6 by just managing to finish off every enemy with the Equalizer
Your black box 1 would be nuts.
This episode was actually great
I've actually taken up using the Liberty Launcher quite often, as I'm trying to practice the Liberty Launcher and Reserve Shooter combination, plus, I find the increased projectile speed to be very funny to throw off Pyros, so, having the faster holster speed added to it would be nice (though, it could have a faster deploy speed too? Just not as fast as holstering).
Next, the Reserve Shooter having a slight increase to its accuracy (as in, reduced bullet spread) would make the weapon more consistent with its use case, I'm all for that, honestly.
Lastly, I have one way to change the Black Box (which I posted on Steam discussions a while back), which is to increase the buff duration of the Soldier's banners in exchange for the heal on hit, so, while you still lose out on one rocket in the clip, the added buff duration would even it out as a great support tool.
I always thought that The Righteuous Bison's multi-hit could be reworked into
"On hit: Briefly slow down the projectile" so it helps itself hit the same target over and over again until they get out of its way, even though it may ruin the concept of using it against a fleeing enemy as they'd be going the same direction as the projectile unless a slow on hit was also added, or projectile speed heavily increased
The Cow Mangler is one of my favorite looking weapons, personally I wish the Charge Shot was a bit faster and instead dealt full damage to Machines but dealt it over time instead, like a giant Sapper blast.
Just a thought on bison projectile speed/tick damage, what if the projectile did tick damage still, had a fast projectile, but the projectile would slow down once it crosses the target's hitbox. Could even experiment with slowing per target hitbox intersected and dissipate after the 4th (damage to scale down so you cant get 1,000 damage on the 4th guy) to emulate energy loss.
Also for the Mangler, what if the charge shot could penetrate targets for as long as you hold M2, doing bison-like damage or igniting them and detonating once it hits an object or the next target after releasing M2 (alternatively use a charge meter like loose cannon does to preset the det range)
Projectile penetration to fit in with bison/grordbort, and the ability to get past body blocking ubers etc without being spammable so you can disable backline sentries at the cost of a delayed reload.
Also detonating just behind someone to launch them towards you for a combo to shovel or reserve shooter could be a lot of fun.
Call me crazy, but I honestly feel like the best solution for the equalizer is to give it the eviction notice treatment, and give it a weaker version of the escape plan speed buff. That way they both fill a niche: EP is a more reliable getaway, while equalizer gives you a better chance to run up close and hit hard enough to kill. Maybe give it the bushwacka’s damage vulnerability to balance it out and make it still less punishing than EP
I feel like there is a way to "Have your cake and eat it" with regards to a multi hitting bison: You steal from Moira's orbs and have the projectile move quickly when not in contact with an enemy, and slowing down when actually dealing damage
evil great blue:
Good weapons in tf2 have never seemed like a normal case to me
Funny, i was just rewatching the previous two this morning
I'm not even going to lie, I forgot this series existed until seeing this pop up in my subscription feed.
surprised you didnt do a cool and unique approach to the bison where it's got two speeds: fast before it hits, and slow once it hits, to keep the tick damage while making it harder to dodge
I thought the same thing, and have seen others mention it as well. I wouldn't know unless it got tested, but I could think of a couple reasons it may not work out.
It could be un-fun and confusing for those being hit, obviously being hit isn't fun but I mean to the point of being annoying.
It could be unreliable/confusing for the _user_ too, having to consider two projectile speeds, where one kicks in, and considering if it even will kick in since you might miss.
It could just be even more jank and inconsistent!!!! That ofc assumes it's programmed kinda poorly, which is a fair assumption knowing tf2, but one that could just be ignored for the sake of discussion. Though the inconsistency might still be a factor even if it was implemented perfectly
Then it would be easier to get away from unless you are standing still
An idea I had for the Equalizer was to make the damage scaling not based on your health, but on the hit enemy, increasing damage based on how much health they have, making it so at 125 it would do the default 65, scaling up to around 225 for a fully overhealed heavy (450 hp) (and not scaling further because MvM), but not scaling down below 65. This would make it a weapon that could be used either to ambush big enemies or make desperate atempts at killing or severely wounding someone healed by a medic.
That'd be a very interesting concept :O it could in effect be a more moderate market gardener for some, dealing high damage to most, but trading the one shot potential on squishy classes for a better follow up. I could see that fitting as a new weapon as well, along side the proposed equalizer changes (though it _does_ fit the name "Equalizer" pretty well)
If it always deals atleast 65 its better than stock in every way
I like your second Black Box fix. It makes him a lot more akin to the Backscratcher-Jetpack Pyro.
Love the new graze the roof remix for your outro dude
In tc2, the liberty launcher gives increased push force which is very similar to your rebalance for it other than not having the blast jump damage reduction and holster speed bonus.
In regards of the Liberty Launcher, I like the current stat as it is, that minus 25% damage is awful, but I think, to compensate, it should have little to no damage fall off, making the Liberty Launcher consistent in damage regardless of distance. The max damage ramp up would probably deal 90ish damage which is inferior to stock, but the fact that Liberty Launcher has no damage fall off, I think it would be a good sidegrade as a long range spam projectiles.
That might make it too powerful, since you can stand at long range where only a sniper can hurt you and contest the objective. It also means it doubles as the Air Strike, you use your bonus rocket to fly and use the 4 to deal full damage without a penalty.
The Air Strike change you thought of is really good. But it needs another downside, or it'll be busted in MvM.
Maybe remove 1 or 2 reload speed upgrades?
Doesn't the Cow Mangler already disable sentries temporarily with its secondary fire? I feel like that's already good enough utility.
4:49 This is actually how the Beggar's accuracy loss works, but it's not really noticeable outside of MvM. Yea, you get the base inaccuracy that stacks much higher because of how fast you're shooting.
ps. man I'd love to have rework 2 black box
for the righteous bison, what I would've done is make the projectile super slow, but really big and wide, making it an area denial tool
but that would probably suck to fight against since it would just get spammed down chokes
I think it was Fish who made the suggestion for the Liberty Launcher being Soldier's combo Rocket Launcher and I've found it to be pretty decent at that when paired with the Panic Attack, so a switch speed increase would be an easy change to encourage this identity.
Edit: Hey you did that! Huzzah! I love combo rocket.
Your ideas for the equalizer are awesome. I love the idea of taking the risk of charging at an enemy with melee while at low health for the potential gain of a second wind. Could also be a fun finisher tool to undo the tolls of the fight on a roaming soldier.
Air Strike refunding rockets back to the clip when you land direct hits while rocket jumping would be fun as hell.
Honestly I was expecting the equaliser to involve a damage resistance at lower health similar to the brass beast or Natasha
Part of why I mostly use the Liberty Launcher is because of the faster firing speed, without the blast radius reduction of the Direct Hit. It's just enough of a "third category" speed-wise that most pyros have a hard time deflecting it, while also helping me hit moving targets more easily (especially duos), as well as making long-range combat more reliable (even if the damage is lower)
Now watch as Great Blue literally does every launcher other than the direct hit.
What's wrong with the direct hit?
For some reason I imagined the video would start with a Soldier doing the conga on a cart's tracks talking about a couple things before kill binding and properly starting the video.
somewhat interesting thought for the beggars - what if the rockets were gravity effected? not as heavily as demo's projectiles, but a lot more of a gradual fall while still traveling for quite a distance horizontally
15:59
Ah yes, Demoman's notable variety of hitscan weapons such as:
fucking dying
Bad weapons in tf2 has always seen like a strange case to me
Reverse damage falloff could be neat for the bison.
I think one thing that would be interesting for all grordbort weapons is reduced clip size in exchange for increased damage (with the building damage penalty kept). This would make them slightly more in line with the concept of them all coming from the same place, while having compl troy different gimmicks on top that allow the user to feel like they're not just using a reskin of another, similar, weapon on a different class.
Can you imagine if we make the liberty launcher a combo weapon. I can imagine god soldiers rocket jumping in, while in the air, shooting at your feet launching you in the air and then gardening you before you can hit the ground
i could definitely go for the beggars changes, and i seriously wish that the panic attack would be reverted and a different shotgun would take the stats of the modern version, cause the old panic attack and beggars paired well for a very high energy chaotic soldier build
0:00 well fsoas would probably be out of a job by now
Liberty Launcher could have an oddly coded explosion which trades the standard blast for one with more vertical push than horizontal, comboing with the Reserve shooter but also giving some fun Airshot potential, either setting up for Reserve shooter or launching them down into the dirt
One of my ideas for giving the cowmangler extra utility:
Right click after firing a charge shot (Pyro's detonator style), after which the charged shot bursts into smaller beams which head straight out from the center in a burst, each beam being equivalent to the bison pre nerf
However, detonating the charged shot would remove its building disabling utilities