Not sure if anyone has pointed this out but the 'Type A' is actually Ace Tone, probably the Ace Tone TOP 9. Ace Tone were effectively the spiritual predecessors of Roland.
@@Csharpsuspended4th The Yamaha marketing material specifies that A is a "Japanese transistor organ". Arturia is French, has only been around since 1999, and makes software emulations of other manufacturers' organs. Yamaha specifies in its marketing material that the Y is a Yamaha YC-45D, so its generic description of the A suggests that it is another manufacturer.
You might be interested to know that the CP has quirk where if you set the sound selection knob to mid-way between it's detent positions and turn power on, the keyboard produces an undocumented acoustic piano sound. Flick the knob back to a set position and the sounds return to normal.
+Louis-andré “Based Frequency” Rousseau Yes it all looks good in there and the sound through big speakers is pretty impressive for such a tiny keyboard.
I quite enjoy your teardown videos and was pleased to find this one as I'm considering a project to transplant the innards of a YC into the carcass of a Roland HP-60 (lovely clicky keys on that, and they're properly sized!) I had previously been planning to convert the Roland into a simple MIDI controller but if I can make a standalone organ out of it too, well, why not?
As a little update to this Yamaha now do a range of portatones with the same keybed as the reface keyboards. The most interesting being the PSS-A50 with adjustable velocity sensitivity, synth like functions (motion control), an arpeggiator, phrase sequencer and most importantly USB-MIDI. USB can power the range as well so can be used as a portable USB MIDI controller (only the A50 has USB-MIDI)
One of the fader on my Reface CS banged a wall recently and stopped working. To my surprise, the fader on Reface is very easy to be disassembled and the fader's inside mechanism seems to be pretty solid. Only took me a minute to readjust the 'fork' thingie of its inside mechanism. I've opened a Vestax and M-Audio and find that the fader usually bolted shut/very hard to be opened so replacement fader is the only option. While the Reface faders are easily fixed, the downside here is that I think it is not a standard and is an in-house made and I can't seem to find an exact replacement on the web. So yeah, it easily fixed but if it completely ruined, good luck finding replacement.
Very interesting video. I am just about to record a user review of the Reface CP and you have saved me having to take apart the unit to find out why they included the break out cable. The main problem I have found with the CP (and it is presumably the same with the YC and CS) is that you can only set the MIDI Omni mode and receive channel via CC and Sysex and these settings are lost when the unit is powered down; reverting to Omni On MIDI receive Channel 1 on the next power up. I do hope Yamaha issue a firmware update for this as it is surely only a software issue when other settings can be saved through power cycles. Anyway great video as always :).
+snolan1990 Hi I agree with you that the issue could be fixed with a firmware update. theres memory in the unit so it can be written to via update. I did not know those settings were lost after power down. this belongs to a friend of mine (youtube : organaut) and he did not mention this. Best wishes and thankYou for bringing that information to the comments so everyone can read about it. when your video is completed please let me know as I would like to see it. From Markus
Yes, the Ace Tone. In oher videos they refer to it as a very cheesy kind of sound, yet this type of wave in the Reface is probably my favorite, apart from the Hammond.
+joeboygsxr Hmm Thats a very good thought. I think I agree with you that they may be very similar. I only wish I could have gotten under that metal plate as there were a few chips there.
+markusfuller mmm... I agree with you that probably under that metal plate there are the most interesting chips, the ones that actually generate the sound. Maybe this is the reason why they concealed them... Probably those chips are different in each category of the Reface series and the rest of hardware is very similar.
Thank you. I was hoping the audio in was mixed with the Audio out in the analogue domain, These audio in's are cool for daisy chaining synths, but unfortunately that also means a lot of conversion. Not so bad if you can make use of onboard effects but if it's just mixing signals it not so great. A Daisy chain of three synths makes my first (an analogue synth) go through A/D>D/A>A/D>D/A before hitting the amp. Nice video, I could take mine apart, but I still wouldn't have a clue.
+Jetset Willy Yes i thought i would just use the cameras mics this time and it camo out reasonable well. though my volume level was a bit low on this video. still learning all the time
Yes I really did try and contact Yamaha in several ways but just got no replies at all. Pity really as im sure many would like to know just what the answer is.
I guess so, Its like Hammond held the word "Drawbars" for a long time and some companies had to call them by different names for a while. Don't quote me on that its just an organ player I know told me that. so I guess keeping things legal they could just use an initial letter but not what it was emulating. Oh what a world we live in.
Thanks for another "look inside" feature. BTW, those memory chips are both high-speed SDRAM chips (according to spec sheets by Winbond). One is, as you said, a 128 Mb (2M x 4 Banks x 16 bits) capacity, and the second is 64 Mb (1M x 4 Banks x 16 bits).
Hi Markus, I was wondering if you knew a part number for the volume slider? It looks easily accessible but someone warned me that the boards are double-sided and it might be hard to replace a fader.
Hello Katrina. I am not sure of the part number for the volume slider, If you cannot get a replacement from Yamaha then look on the metal edge of the slider as there may be an Ohms value stamped or printed on it or it could even be on the underside but then you would need to unsolder it to see there, yes the boards are double sided but it should be possible to remove the slider even though it will be a fiddly awkward job. I always have problems trying to find replacement sliders as there are so many different sizes and lengths and the pins are in the wrong place or the post that sticks up is wrong and the cap will not fix to it. I normally start with rs-electronics or mouser but there are pages of sliders to go through checking physical size shape and value (then the pins are wrong). there is a facebook group called something like synth spares and repairs where you may get the info you require. sorry I don’t know the part number for you , good luck and I hope you manage to find a replacement.
I just bought the Yamaha Reface CP, opened it up, and it looks identical to this one inside except the top panel, of course. Same processor board, and I suspect same DSP (?) underneath the metal shield. If I'm curious enough, and brave enough, I might desolder the shield to check the numbering on that chip... If I do, I'll let you know what it is Markus...
+AlainHubert ThankYou Alain Im pleased you let us know they are the same inside. as for that big processor / chip yes please let us all know. Many thanks from Markus
Great you have done this video to let us see what's inside. I really want to upgrade the speakers in my reface CP. They don't seem to be able to handle the frequencies of the Rhodes patch without distorting. Do you think it's possible?
That MIDI-PS2 Y cable looks the same as used on my old Yamaha SW1000XG from the early 2000's (well maybe even a few years before that). At least they have kept to some standard, I guess!
+RavJ Yes Im pleased they didn't use some custom job made just for this one item. that way theres a chance in the future to buying another one if it gets damaged.
Brilliant video Markus! I'm saving up for a Reface DX. Used to own a DX7 back in the days and I regret selling it. Only thing that ticks me off a bit is that mini DIN (ps/2) MIDI dongle thing. If I could afford it I would probably go for a YC too. I'm a complete sucker for organs and the YC sounds stunningly good.
+Jakob Haq Hi Jakob, Yes I do not like that tiny little PS/2 dongle either but it does the job and fits quite rigidly so should not fall out. I too looked at the DX version, it sounds pretty good. I had the DX7II many years ago. sign I just wish I could have kept all the keyboards that have passed through my hands over the years but I only live in a flat and there would be no room for me. Anyway Thanks Jakob and PS Im really enjoying your videos on youtube th-cam.com/channels/ZFPiLpzd4cKOsBS9CIu3xg.html . Thanks again from Markus.
I bought a Reface dx, It's probably the more versatile of the four Reface and the only one that has 32 patches to program... and it sounds good. Probably it would have been better with a full size keyboard (they could have done it without affecting too much the size of the device). Anyway the keyboard is not so bad, it's playable and you can always attach a proper midi keyboard if you want. In my opinion those Reface look a bit of a market test: Yamaha is trying to find out if today there is space for this kind of devices. If the feedback is positive they are probably going to release some more serious stuff focused on the same idea of reproposing tecnologies of their glorioius past in a modern dress (with a proper improvement).
Yes the DX is my favourite. I can play the keys no problem but I have reasonably slim fingers, I don't know how this works out for everyone else though. I think they should make a full sized version of these refaces.
Markus' videos are so much more fun and relaxing the reading the daily political discussions on social media. Thank you, thank you for these superior options to people bickering :)
+markusfuller - I thought I'd ask this here since you've taken lots of synths apart. How difficult do you think it would be to re-house the guts of a Reface inside a MIDI controller with full-sized keys? Figuring out how to attach they keybed is my main concern. Does Yamaha use a proprietary internal connection for the keys, or is it something that could easily be hooked up to other keybeds?
I think it would be far easier to attach the midi from the keyboard to the midi in of the unit you have placed inside. the only concern is making it look good with all the controls etc on the midi keyboard you choose to use to build the reface into. but the main sound unit is quite slim so it could be easily rehoused into a midi keyboard.
I had the same question. From what I saw, it looks like it would be possible to reconnect the keys of the full sized keyboard though you may face a compatibility problem with the sensitivity. Of course it would be mutch simpler to use midi connection, but would the controller allow to strip some components to make room for the YC? Since you probably already tore down some controllers, would you recommend a model that would fit best the operation? Also, how many octaves can the Reface manage with midi connection? Btw, I really enjoy your videos.
I was wondering the same thing. I get H, V, F and Y but what is A? I know it's some Japanese transistor organ but I don't know what the A is supposed to be. A Google search reveals that there's a Japanese transistor organ called Ace Tone. I wonder if that's it.
The limited travel of the sliders looks like it could be annoying. It sounds ok. Never played around with it though, so maybe it's ok. Was the volume on this video a bit lower than usual?
+Michael Bauers Hi Michael. Yes i was trying out a lapel mic and gambling it was going to sound fine which it did not so the audio is from a mic which is too far away from me but boosting that up bought in hiss and background noise (theres digger trucks opposite my house working all day) so i had to get a sort of midway volume. where you can hear me but not the background noise. sorry about that. the sliders are not that bad really.
+Michael Smith there seems to be a large DSP chip under there. I could just see the edge of it. but the keyboard was not mine so I could not start desoldering the plate off it just incase i damaged something.
Yeah, that is unfortunate. I do agree with another viewer's comment about maybe these being like the Roland Boutique series, and having a relatively standardized set of DSP chips to run each offering of the line. The fact that they're (hiding?) said chips adds weight to the idea.
+markusfuller I wonder if that's a tell-tale that they've got something worth hiding? Even though there's not much that I personally could do with the knowledge, I'm still very intrigued! Perhaps its an ESC2!
well it looked like a large BGA chip under there. (no legs sticking out the sides) so im not sure what it was but the thing sounds very impressive for its size.
Awesome video thanks! So for someone with zero electronics background, wondering how hard it would be to remove the keybed, but still have everything else functional. What I'm hoping to do is buiild a "hammond'ish" wooden case around a midi controller keybed connected to the YC, with all of the YC controls sticking up out of the custom case. Or maybe I would be better off just building a spot into my custom case to actually house the entire YC and use it as a left hand bass option . . . Any thoughts would be super appreciated!
Hmm sounds good both ways have it as a left hand bass and also just use the electronics and controllers without the keys. entirely up to you. good luck and thanks for your comment.
@@markusfuller Thanks for the reply! Is removing the keys just a case of unplugging them from the main board and everything else will still function ok? (Sorry, electronics noob here ;)
@@islandtony5009 Hi islandtony5009 to be honest I am not 100% sure I personally would just try and see what happens. it may just run on midi just fine but some of these keybeds have lots of diodes on the board and just maybe unplugging the keys may upset the unit on startup though I kinda think it will be ok. I have removed keys from other units in the past and they worked just fine with midi connected. I hope it works out.
Dear Markus, Thanks. Another great vid. And the A stands for: Er, ever heard about the Ace Tone combo organs which are associated with an obsure company also known as Roland? (Did I win. did I win?) Is there a velocity sensitive mode in the CY at all? If not the keyboard print should be another standardized part along the same lines as those in the Roland Boutique stuff. If the CS, which definately is non velocity senstitive, still has the same keyboard that would be additional proof. The idea about the led blanks on the contoller print is valid but one would expect a cheaper solution. And presto: The CS has such a led row at anotther position. That doesn't explain them all though so I'd gues it is just another standardized print with multiple options and thus an indicator that even more permutations could come if the concept is commercially succesfull.
PS 1 Darn. Somebody else already mentioned the Ace Tone. PS 2: My vote for a next incarnation would be for a Reface GX1, with ALL the options of the original, including the programmer, but still no menu structure! :-)
+Marc Brassé Hi Marc. Sorry it was not a competition. However you are not the first to have mentioned the Ace Tone. I think the A on the reface wave selector was actually the Yamaha A3. Though I think the AceTones were great, I had the Ace Tone drum machine for quite a while until i sold it to a collector, It was dreadfully made inside but sounded really nice and retro. Best wishes from Markus
Thanks for the video, i was wondering how the speakers where mounted. Depending on the sound tone i notice my speakers are causing something to rattle from the vibrations and i was hoping to find a fix. Anyone notice the vibrating sound? Any ideas how to fix it or where/what is causing it? I only notice it at higher volume. Thanks
Hi Jason Im not sure if they are glued in or maybe there are screws holding them in place on the top panel. if so i guess you can just tighten them up or place some sponge under them to press them up against the top when you screw the thing back together. that is if you open it up of course.
I'm a CP owner also coming here to see what I can learn about the speaker issue and whether I'm going to be able to fix it with a bodge of some sort, before I open the box and void the warranty.
That's what I'm here for as well. I have both the CP and the YC, and the YC speakers distort at about 3/4 volume. That "Audio Wave Guide" has me nervous though.
yesterday I jammed two hours on the reface cp. while playing I realised that the keyboard was repeating the last chords over and over again like a delay. After switch off and on I get only white noise out of the speakers. I tried Factory Reset - not helped. What could I do now ?
I just had a mini key snap off of my akai midi controller. Do the reface keys look like they'd snap off with wear? I can't tell from the video. Is the key attached to the body on a thin piece of plastic that bends when you press the key down, or is there something more durable going on?
this and the other reface video were very helpful for addressing a partially non-working key on my unit, but they would have been even more helpful if you had shown on camera the actual removal process of the keyblocks, which were skipped over in the video. thanks regardless
Hi Markus... Good channel .. how do I connect the reface yc to an iPad in conjunction to use eventually AUM I’m struggling to make a connection . Many thanks
Could you remove the keyboard from this and use it as a sound module? Basically put it in a nice box and then use a full size midi keyboard. Or would cutting off the keyboard cause problems with it?
It looks like the keyboard just connects with a small cable that can be disconnected. It probably uses some kind of scan matrix, so to the electronics, the disconnected cable should appear the same as if it were connected but no keys were being pressed. Your idea should work.
+tiboliebymusic Hmm I'm sitting on the fence here not on either side. Roland do make some amazing gear and so do Yamaha. but I think theres always that question of making things down to a price that can be the biggest problem for a company trying to stay in business.
I have a YC that doesnt pass any signal to the headphone/audio jacks if the Rotary speed is off completely - except for the wet reverb signal if there is any. if the rotary is in any other position everything works fine. also on the internal speakers everything works completely fine. any ideas how to fix this?
+Jen Pies Hi Jen. That is a very good guess. theres a couple of comments earlier that also say the Acetone. but the A is the Yamaha A3 organ emulation. But Good guess. Best wishes from Markus.
What I would love is the ability to use the Reface as a second manual (ie keyboard) at a different level of midi signal amplitude (either higher or lower) than an external midi controller keyboard piped in to use the Reface as a sound module. As a MIDI ignoramus I feel this should be entirely doable, but I have no clue how to proceed. When I adjust the level from my Roland A-30 using the "Data Entry" slider, it turns the Reface Volume down (or up) at the same time. Case in point: the problem with playing (say) "Whiter Shade of Pale" with my rig as is stands is that the melody note needs to be about twice as loud as the underneath chords. This would be trivially easy on a 2 manual Hammond. Can anyone point me at how to achieve this?
+markusfuller You'd have to produce a several parts video to cover the insides of that beast CS-80 though ! It looks like an old telephone switchboard in there, with literally tons of wires and discrete (and not-so-discrete) components !
Last time I was inside a CS-80 was about 1989. wow what a monster but a beautiful design with bits of wood here and there things screwed everywhere and yes must me a mile of cable inside.
+markusfuller Er, Marcus, You'd be welcome to visit mine. I'd be glad to keep you for a few days. Then you could at the same time take care of oscillator 8 in bank B not firing. Could just be a matter of replacing a 4000 series chip in the S & H board. Or not! (shiver) Anyway. The CS80 is huge and complex indeed but at least one does not have to be a nanobot to do repairs!
Thanks Marc, Very kind of you. I have a few old 4000 series chips here. Maybe if you can track down the possible problem If I have the chip I will gladly send it to you.
I'm a little surprised by the use of removable batteries in this day and age. Feels like something from the '80s in that respect. I wonder why they didn't go with a USB-rechargeable lithium battery? The cost can't be that high (even the cheapest of cell phones uses lithium batteries.)
w0mbles lithium batteries are not eternal, they are supposed to work well for abouth 5 years, then they start decaying in performance. Sometimes their lives are even shorter. So I am very glad that Yamaha have decided to use standard batteries. By the way, you can use NiMh batteries without any problem...they even last much more then standard alkaline batteries.
thanks Markus! I felt that the notes don't stack as nicely as a real organ, the output stage feels stiff (too good!). our GEM sprinter cost 40 pounds and sounds better for farfisa type stuff. organs cost nothing!
+James Porch True you cannot beat the proper organ but for the size of this thing it does quite a good job. besides when jason uses it he midi's a keyboard into it from the KeyB organ and it sounds pretty good.
The YC reface is a great little organ. It sounds great and it has all the classic organ sounds but the keyboard is nearly useless. Organists are used to 2 keyboards and now they want us to deal with this tiny thing? They should've just scratched the keyboard altogether and had larger controls. Then we could use a controler.
+Paul TheSkeptic I agree I use it with a Key-B organ and send the top manual through Midi to the YC. I wish it was available in a version without the keys also.
markusfuller That would be great. I could even imagine someone wanting to buy 2. Then you could have 2 manuals with 2 different settings like a Hammond. Or you could set up something like this computermusicguide.com/home-made-combo-organ-controller/ If you know some carpentry you could even add effects and a great cabinet, maybe a tone knob taken out of a wah wah. I'm always trying to come up with ways to do cool stuff on the cheap. There are other keyboardless organ engines but they're way too expensive.
I think someone with the know-how ;) could do very brisk business by buying these off hipster trustafarians when they've got bored of them (looked sooo cute with the blue ukulele and nursery toys in their neo-folk band), sawing off the useless T-Rex forelimb keyboards and selling them as neat modules for musicians ;)
Not sure if anyone has pointed this out but the 'Type A' is actually Ace Tone, probably the Ace Tone TOP 9. Ace Tone were effectively the spiritual predecessors of Roland.
Thats not what he tells us, in the video.!
@@SuperKlumpedumpe NO, but I think it is true!
i thought h was for hammond, a was arturia, v for vox continental, y for yamaha, and f for farfisa
@@Csharpsuspended4th The Yamaha marketing material specifies that A is a "Japanese transistor organ". Arturia is French, has only been around since 1999, and makes software emulations of other manufacturers' organs. Yamaha specifies in its marketing material that the Y is a Yamaha YC-45D, so its generic description of the A suggests that it is another manufacturer.
@@benjwgarner Ah, I understand now. Thank you.
I love this guys videos. They're so relaxing and actually a great way to wind down from a big day.
+Padrig Burgess Thank You very much Padrig
The Refaces sound great and are bags of fun to play. They might look like toys but are serious bits of kit.
You might be interested to know that the CP has quirk where if you set the sound selection knob to mid-way between it's detent positions and turn power on, the keyboard produces an undocumented acoustic piano sound. Flick the knob back to a set position and the sounds return to normal.
Great video, it's nice to see that they took care and put quality components in the reface synths.
+Louis-andré “Based Frequency” Rousseau Yes it all looks good in there and the sound through big speakers is pretty impressive for such a tiny keyboard.
I quite enjoy your teardown videos and was pleased to find this one as I'm considering a project to transplant the innards of a YC into the carcass of a Roland HP-60 (lovely clicky keys on that, and they're properly sized!) I had previously been planning to convert the Roland into a simple MIDI controller but if I can make a standalone organ out of it too, well, why not?
As a little update to this Yamaha now do a range of portatones with the same keybed as the reface keyboards. The most interesting being the PSS-A50 with adjustable velocity sensitivity, synth like functions (motion control), an arpeggiator, phrase sequencer and most importantly USB-MIDI. USB can power the range as well so can be used as a portable USB MIDI controller (only the A50 has USB-MIDI)
I've got the cs it's a great little thing for practicing on the sofa. Going to get the yc at some point looks good
great video per usual Sir Markus. the sound coming from those tiny speakers is quite good! Thank you for posting great videos!
One of the fader on my Reface CS banged a wall recently and stopped working. To my surprise, the fader on Reface is very easy to be disassembled and the fader's inside mechanism seems to be pretty solid. Only took me a minute to readjust the 'fork' thingie of its inside mechanism.
I've opened a Vestax and M-Audio and find that the fader usually bolted shut/very hard to be opened so replacement fader is the only option. While the Reface faders are easily fixed, the downside here is that I think it is not a standard and is an in-house made and I can't seem to find an exact replacement on the web. So yeah, it easily fixed but if it completely ruined, good luck finding replacement.
Very interesting video. I am just about to record a user review of the Reface CP and you have saved me having to take apart the unit to find out why they included the break out cable.
The main problem I have found with the CP (and it is presumably the same with the YC and CS) is that you can only set the MIDI Omni mode and receive channel via CC and Sysex and these settings are lost when the unit is powered down; reverting to Omni On MIDI receive Channel 1 on the next power up. I do hope Yamaha issue a firmware update for this as it is surely only a software issue when other settings can be saved through power cycles.
Anyway great video as always :).
+snolan1990 Hi I agree with you that the issue could be fixed with a firmware update. theres memory in the unit so it can be written to via update. I did not know those settings were lost after power down. this belongs to a friend of mine (youtube : organaut) and he did not mention this. Best wishes and thankYou for bringing that information to the comments so everyone can read about it. when your video is completed please let me know as I would like to see it. From Markus
Yes, the Ace Tone. In oher videos they refer to it as a very cheesy kind of sound, yet this type of wave in the Reface is probably my favorite, apart from the Hammond.
I'd like to see if the different models have the same stuff inside them like a lot of the new Roland boxes
+joeboygsxr Hmm Thats a very good thought. I think I agree with you that they may be very similar. I only wish I could have gotten under that metal plate as there were a few chips there.
+markusfuller mmm... I agree with you that probably under that metal plate there are the most interesting chips, the ones that actually generate the sound. Maybe this is the reason why they concealed them... Probably those chips are different in each category of the Reface series and the rest of hardware is very similar.
Thank you. I was hoping the audio in was mixed with the Audio out in the analogue domain, These audio in's are cool for daisy chaining synths, but unfortunately that also means a lot of conversion. Not so bad if you can make use of onboard effects but if it's just mixing signals it not so great. A Daisy chain of three synths makes my first (an analogue synth) go through A/D>D/A>A/D>D/A before hitting the amp. Nice video, I could take mine apart, but I still wouldn't have a clue.
yes i agree if you daisy chain the signal too much it kinda gets messy. better to have them all going seperate into a small mixer if you have one.
Tiny speakers thru cam's mic, and it sounds direct. +wishlist
Thanks Markus
+Jetset Willy Yes i thought i would just use the cameras mics this time and it camo out reasonable well. though my volume level was a bit low on this video. still learning all the time
Thanks for the look round the inside of this little, but awesome keyboard. :)
+ThomasGrillo Hi Thomas Thank You. Jason was brave enough to let me open up this little keyboard, It sounds amazing through large speakers.
A QY-70 has a similar connector, but also has MIDI Din Sockets also.
Hearing you talk about DAC made me think that you should do a video where you take apart an audio interface.
Would be awesoem
+LE SEIGNEUR If I get my hands on one I will do a video. Best wishes from markus
I've heard the A is for Acetone (Predecessor to Roland) :3
+HurpADervish Yes you could be right. some say its Acetone and some say its the A3yamaha. I do not know 100% as Yamaha will not tell me.
+markusfuller Ooo :D Interesting. I guess not knowing is half the fun (or maybe frustration XD) Sounds lovely either way :D
Yes I really did try and contact Yamaha in several ways but just got no replies at all. Pity really as im sure many would like to know just what the answer is.
+markusfuller Sad times... I wonder whether they'll ever spill? (probably a legal issue I suppose?)
I guess so, Its like Hammond held the word "Drawbars" for a long time and some companies had to call them by different names for a while. Don't quote me on that its just an organ player I know told me that. so I guess keeping things legal they could just use an initial letter but not what it was emulating. Oh what a world we live in.
Thanks for another "look inside" feature.
BTW, those memory chips are both high-speed SDRAM chips (according to spec sheets by Winbond). One is, as you said, a 128 Mb (2M x 4 Banks x 16 bits) capacity, and the second is 64 Mb (1M x 4 Banks x 16 bits).
+AlainHubert Oh Thanks Alain . I wonder why theres 2 types in there ?.
+markusfuller
Probably because a single 192 Mb SDRAM memory chip is rather hard to come by... ?
Very nice to have a look inside it, may have one coming, but hey, the A stands for Hammond A3, i am pretty shure.. ;)
Hi Markus, I was wondering if you knew a part number for the volume slider? It looks easily accessible but someone warned me that the boards are double-sided and it might be hard to replace a fader.
Hello Katrina. I am not sure of the part number for the volume slider, If you cannot get a replacement from Yamaha then look on the metal edge of the slider as there may be an Ohms value stamped or printed on it or it could even be on the underside but then you would need to unsolder it to see there, yes the boards are double sided but it should be possible to remove the slider even though it will be a fiddly awkward job. I always have problems trying to find replacement sliders as there are so many different sizes and lengths and the pins are in the wrong place or the post that sticks up is wrong and the cap will not fix to it. I normally start with rs-electronics or mouser but there are pages of sliders to go through checking physical size shape and value (then the pins are wrong). there is a facebook group called something like synth spares and repairs where you may get the info you require. sorry I don’t know the part number for you , good luck and I hope you manage to find a replacement.
I just bought the Yamaha Reface CP, opened it up, and it looks identical to this one inside except the top panel, of course. Same processor board, and I suspect same DSP (?) underneath the metal shield. If I'm curious enough, and brave enough, I might desolder the shield to check the numbering on that chip... If I do, I'll let you know what it is Markus...
+AlainHubert ThankYou Alain Im pleased you let us know they are the same inside. as for that big processor / chip yes please let us all know. Many thanks from Markus
Great you have done this video to let us see what's inside. I really want to upgrade the speakers in my reface CP. They don't seem to be able to handle the frequencies of the Rhodes patch without distorting. Do you think it's possible?
That MIDI-PS2 Y cable looks the same as used on my old Yamaha SW1000XG from the early 2000's (well maybe even a few years before that). At least they have kept to some standard, I guess!
+RavJ Yes Im pleased they didn't use some custom job made just for this one item. that way theres a chance in the future to buying another one if it gets damaged.
Brilliant video Markus!
I'm saving up for a Reface DX. Used to own a DX7 back in the days and I regret selling it. Only thing that ticks me off a bit is that mini DIN (ps/2) MIDI dongle thing.
If I could afford it I would probably go for a YC too. I'm a complete sucker for organs and the YC sounds stunningly good.
+Jakob Haq Hi Jakob, Yes I do not like that tiny little PS/2 dongle either but it does the job and fits quite rigidly so should not fall out. I too looked at the DX version, it sounds pretty good. I had the DX7II many years ago. sign I just wish I could have kept all the keyboards that have passed through my hands over the years but I only live in a flat and there would be no room for me. Anyway Thanks Jakob and PS Im really enjoying your videos on youtube th-cam.com/channels/ZFPiLpzd4cKOsBS9CIu3xg.html . Thanks again from Markus.
I bought a Reface dx, It's probably the more versatile of the four Reface and the only one that has 32 patches to program... and it sounds good. Probably it would have been better with a full size keyboard (they could have done it without affecting too much the size of the device). Anyway the keyboard is not so bad, it's playable and you can always attach a proper midi keyboard if you want. In my opinion those Reface look a bit of a market test: Yamaha is trying to find out if today there is space for this kind of devices. If the feedback is positive they are probably going to release some more serious stuff focused on the same idea of reproposing tecnologies of their glorioius past in a modern dress (with a proper improvement).
Yes the DX is my favourite. I can play the keys no problem but I have reasonably slim fingers, I don't know how this works out for everyone else though. I think they should make a full sized version of these refaces.
thanks for the video. my percussion toggle is busted. got a new one I'm gonna attempt to swap in. cheers!
Markus' videos are so much more fun and relaxing the reading the daily political discussions on social media. Thank you, thank you for these superior options to people bickering :)
+Michael Bauers Thanks very much Michael.
I often wonder what type of chip they use for low z outs (headphones, speakers), as no one is ever able to give modern alternative to lm386.
+markusfuller - I thought I'd ask this here since you've taken lots of synths apart. How difficult do you think it would be to re-house the guts of a Reface inside a MIDI controller with full-sized keys? Figuring out how to attach they keybed is my main concern. Does Yamaha use a proprietary internal connection for the keys, or is it something that could easily be hooked up to other keybeds?
I think it would be far easier to attach the midi from the keyboard to the midi in of the unit you have placed inside. the only concern is making it look good with all the controls etc on the midi keyboard you choose to use to build the reface into. but the main sound unit is quite slim so it could be easily rehoused into a midi keyboard.
I had the same question. From what I saw, it looks like it would be possible to reconnect the keys of the full sized keyboard though you may face a compatibility problem with the sensitivity. Of course it would be mutch simpler to use midi connection, but would the controller allow to strip some components to make room for the YC? Since you probably already tore down some controllers, would you recommend a model that would fit best the operation? Also, how many octaves can the Reface manage with midi connection?
Btw, I really enjoy your videos.
I was wondering the same thing. I get H, V, F and Y but what is A? I know it's some Japanese transistor organ but I don't know what the A is supposed to be. A Google search reveals that there's a Japanese transistor organ called Ace Tone. I wonder if that's it.
Bingo! Got it in one.
The limited travel of the sliders looks like it could be annoying. It sounds ok. Never played around with it though, so maybe it's ok. Was the volume on this video a bit lower than usual?
+Michael Bauers Hi Michael. Yes i was trying out a lapel mic and gambling it was going to sound fine which it did not so the audio is from a mic which is too far away from me but boosting that up bought in hiss and background noise (theres digger trucks opposite my house working all day) so i had to get a sort of midway volume. where you can hear me but not the background noise. sorry about that. the sliders are not that bad really.
thanks! this helped me do repairs on my keyboard
Thank you Jack.
Great video! I'm dying to know what's lurking underneath that soldered plate.
+Michael Smith there seems to be a large DSP chip under there. I could just see the edge of it. but the keyboard was not mine so I could not start desoldering the plate off it just incase i damaged something.
Yeah, that is unfortunate. I do agree with another viewer's comment about maybe these being like the Roland Boutique series, and having a relatively standardized set of DSP chips to run each offering of the line. The fact that they're (hiding?) said chips adds weight to the idea.
+markusfuller I wonder if that's a tell-tale that they've got something worth hiding? Even though there's not much that I personally could do with the knowledge, I'm still very intrigued! Perhaps its an ESC2!
well it looked like a large BGA chip under there. (no legs sticking out the sides) so im not sure what it was but the thing sounds very impressive for its size.
Awesome video thanks! So for someone with zero electronics background, wondering how hard it would be to remove the keybed, but still have everything else functional. What I'm hoping to do is buiild a "hammond'ish" wooden case around a midi controller keybed connected to the YC, with all of the YC controls sticking up out of the custom case. Or maybe I would be better off just building a spot into my custom case to actually house the entire YC and use it as a left hand bass option . . . Any thoughts would be super appreciated!
Hmm sounds good both ways have it as a left hand bass and also just use the electronics and controllers without the keys. entirely up to you. good luck and thanks for your comment.
@@markusfuller Thanks for the reply! Is removing the keys just a case of unplugging them from the main board and everything else will still function ok? (Sorry, electronics noob here ;)
@@islandtony5009 Hi islandtony5009 to be honest I am not 100% sure I personally would just try and see what happens. it may just run on midi just fine but some of these keybeds have lots of diodes on the board and just maybe unplugging the keys may upset the unit on startup though I kinda think it will be ok. I have removed keys from other units in the past and they worked just fine with midi connected. I hope it works out.
@@markusfuller Sounds good and thanks alot I appreciate the help!
Did you do it?@@islandtony5009
Dear Markus,
Thanks. Another great vid.
And the A stands for: Er, ever heard about the Ace Tone combo organs which are associated with an obsure company also known as Roland? (Did I win. did I win?)
Is there a velocity sensitive mode in the CY at all? If not the keyboard print should be another standardized part along the same lines as those in the Roland Boutique stuff. If the CS, which definately is non velocity senstitive, still has the same keyboard that would be additional proof.
The idea about the led blanks on the contoller print is valid but one would expect a cheaper solution. And presto: The CS has such a led row at anotther position. That doesn't explain them all though so I'd gues it is just another standardized print with multiple options and thus an indicator that even more permutations could come if the concept is commercially succesfull.
PS 1 Darn. Somebody else already mentioned the Ace Tone.
PS 2: My vote for a next incarnation would be for a Reface GX1, with ALL the options of the original, including the programmer, but still no menu structure! :-)
+Marc Brassé Hi Marc. Sorry it was not a competition. However you are not the first to have mentioned the Ace Tone. I think the A on the reface wave selector was actually the Yamaha A3. Though I think the AceTones were great, I had the Ace Tone drum machine for quite a while until i sold it to a collector, It was dreadfully made inside but sounded really nice and retro. Best wishes from Markus
Thanks for the video, i was wondering how the speakers where mounted. Depending on the sound tone i notice my speakers are causing something to rattle from the vibrations and i was hoping to find a fix. Anyone notice the vibrating sound? Any ideas how to fix it or where/what is causing it? I only notice it at higher volume.
Thanks
Hi Jason Im not sure if they are glued in or maybe there are screws holding them in place on the top panel. if so i guess you can just tighten them up or place some sponge under them to press them up against the top when you screw the thing back together. that is if you open it up of course.
Thank you ! Its good to hear the speakers , sounds really good .
wonder if there's any way to improve the speakers? I have the CP model and the speakers overdrive/distort too easily, especially on the Rhodes sounds.
I'm a CP owner also coming here to see what I can learn about the speaker issue and whether I'm going to be able to fix it with a bodge of some sort, before I open the box and void the warranty.
That's what I'm here for as well. I have both the CP and the YC, and the YC speakers distort at about 3/4 volume.
That "Audio Wave Guide" has me nervous though.
Hi Marcus, thank you for these videos. Any chance of doing a teardown on a Novation mininova?
+tonalaxis Hello , If I get my hands on a novation I will tear it down. I never know what I will have in my workshop next. many thanks from markus
yesterday I jammed two hours on the reface cp. while playing I realised that the keyboard was repeating the last chords over and over again like a delay. After switch off and on I get only white noise out of the speakers. I tried Factory Reset - not helped. What could I do now ?
I just had a mini key snap off of my akai midi controller. Do the reface keys look like they'd snap off with wear? I can't tell from the video. Is the key attached to the body on a thin piece of plastic that bends when you press the key down, or is there something more durable going on?
Wait a minute: you skipped to show us the most interesting part, which is: what kind of DSP is under the metal shield?
this and the other reface video were very helpful for addressing a partially non-working key on my unit, but they would have been even more helpful if you had shown on camera the actual removal process of the keyblocks, which were skipped over in the video. thanks regardless
Hi Markus...
Good channel .. how do I connect the reface yc to an iPad in conjunction to use eventually AUM
I’m struggling to make a connection .
Many thanks
A = Acetone. That dude went on to found Roland.
Could you remove the keyboard from this and use it as a sound module? Basically put it in a nice box and then use a full size midi keyboard. Or would cutting off the keyboard cause problems with it?
It looks like the keyboard just connects with a small cable that can be disconnected. It probably uses some kind of scan matrix, so to the electronics, the disconnected cable should appear the same as if it were connected but no keys were being pressed. Your idea should work.
I like these teardowns thx
we can clearly see through your videos that yamaha build their stuff more seriously than roland
+tiboliebymusic Hmm I'm sitting on the fence here not on either side. Roland do make some amazing gear and so do Yamaha. but I think theres always that question of making things down to a price that can be the biggest problem for a company trying to stay in business.
I would love to have those or Aturia Keys in my JD-Xi.
I have a YC that doesnt pass any signal to the headphone/audio jacks if the Rotary speed is off completely - except for the wet reverb signal if there is any. if the rotary is in any other position everything works fine. also on the internal speakers everything works completely fine. any ideas how to fix this?
Well stuffed with goodies little keyboard. Burr brown anything was expensive and high performing in the semiconductor world.
A stands for Acetone, which made organs and drum machines and became Roland.
+Jen Pies Hi Jen. That is a very good guess. theres a couple of comments earlier that also say the Acetone. but the A is the Yamaha A3 organ emulation. But Good guess. Best wishes from Markus.
@@markusfuller Surely if it was a Yamaha they would have used Y1 or Y2? It sure sounds like an Ace Tone to me.
The Ace Tone was a lot less refined. Used for B grade Godzilla style horror sound tracks...
What I would love is the ability to use the Reface as a second manual (ie keyboard) at a different level of midi signal amplitude (either higher or lower) than an external midi controller keyboard piped in to use the Reface as a sound module. As a MIDI ignoramus I feel this should be entirely doable, but I have no clue how to proceed.
When I adjust the level from my Roland A-30 using the "Data Entry" slider, it turns the Reface Volume down (or up) at the same time.
Case in point: the problem with playing (say) "Whiter Shade of Pale" with my rig as is stands is that the melody note needs to be about twice as loud as the underneath chords. This would be trivially easy on a 2 manual Hammond.
Can anyone point me at how to achieve this?
please a a look inside a yamaha cs-80
+Marcusmiller Oh the CS-80 has been on my want list for years. if only I could afford one. :-)
+markusfuller
You'd have to produce a several parts video to cover the insides of that beast CS-80 though ! It looks like an old telephone switchboard in there, with literally tons of wires and discrete (and not-so-discrete) components !
Last time I was inside a CS-80 was about 1989. wow what a monster but a beautiful design with bits of wood here and there things screwed everywhere and yes must me a mile of cable inside.
+markusfuller Er, Marcus, You'd be welcome to visit mine. I'd be glad to keep you for a few days. Then you could at the same time take care of oscillator 8 in bank B not firing. Could just be a matter of replacing a 4000 series chip in the S & H board. Or not! (shiver)
Anyway. The CS80 is huge and complex indeed but at least one does not have to be a nanobot to do repairs!
Thanks Marc, Very kind of you. I have a few old 4000 series chips here. Maybe if you can track down the possible problem If I have the chip I will gladly send it to you.
I'm a little surprised by the use of removable batteries in this day and age. Feels like something from the '80s in that respect. I wonder why they didn't go with a USB-rechargeable lithium battery? The cost can't be that high (even the cheapest of cell phones uses lithium batteries.)
w0mbles lithium batteries are not eternal, they are supposed to work well for abouth 5 years, then they start decaying in performance. Sometimes their lives are even shorter. So I am very glad that Yamaha have decided to use standard batteries. By the way, you can use NiMh batteries without any problem...they even last much more then standard alkaline batteries.
another great vid ..thanks Markus. They actually look better made than the Roland Aira stuff too. I would like to see inside the DX Reface :-)
+muzikman2008 If I get my hands on one I will do the teardown :-)
Love my Reface DX but the octave switch has suddenly stopped working - anyone else had this issue?
Don't you think that this solid 'L-shaped' keyboard screwed to the body of the organ is too frail?
Very informative. Thanks.
Even this is an older vid i try to ask you all:
Has anybody moded the YC with a footswitch to controll the rotary speeds?
Or has a link?
compared to the inside of the boutiques this looks like a synth from the 90's!
+Jack Monegato Yes but especially the red Yamaha YC10. I do like the rocker switches they look very retro.
A stands for ace tone .
Can I use from Yamaha reface yc like midi controller and connect it to FL studio on windows?
Yes, you can.
I bought one , years ago , I lost the sound yesterday ! no more sound !
I GOT IT : Press the start button and press in the same time the last note at right . Page 41 of the owner's manual . Bingo !
top-top-top grt Marc
That keybed has been made to break eventually. Always a bad idea to make keys from the same plastic piece.
Help! I have a dead key on my Reface CP, anyone know how to fix this issue?
thanks Markus! I felt that the notes don't stack as nicely as a real organ, the output stage feels stiff (too good!). our GEM sprinter cost 40 pounds and sounds better for farfisa type stuff. organs cost nothing!
+James Porch True you cannot beat the proper organ but for the size of this thing it does quite a good job. besides when jason uses it he midi's a keyboard into it from the KeyB organ and it sounds pretty good.
hey amigo muy bueno saludos desde tijuana
Well described and informative thumbs up from me. 👍😎
+organaut Thank You Jason. (i told you i would take care of it )
Still, they could've designed the PCB so a normal MIDI connector fits on there..
+PWMaarten If they put a little more thought into it then yes they could have spun the boards for full size midi sockets.
What is haych
It's Anatomy session, not a tutorial hahaha
neat!
Might be it all depends on a MARSHALL JVM410H 100W amplifier with a tower of two Marshall MX412A speakers to wake up this little tiger?
The YC reface is a great little organ. It sounds great and it has all the classic organ sounds but the keyboard is nearly useless. Organists are used to 2 keyboards and now they want us to deal with this tiny thing? They should've just scratched the keyboard altogether and had larger controls. Then we could use a controler.
+Paul TheSkeptic I agree I use it with a Key-B organ and send the top manual through Midi to the YC. I wish it was available in a version without the keys also.
markusfuller That would be great. I could even imagine someone wanting to buy 2. Then you could have 2 manuals with 2 different settings like a Hammond. Or you could set up something like this computermusicguide.com/home-made-combo-organ-controller/
If you know some carpentry you could even add effects and a great cabinet, maybe a tone knob taken out of a wah wah. I'm always trying to come up with ways to do cool stuff on the cheap. There are other keyboardless organ engines but they're way too expensive.
I think I'd prefer Yamaha Electone to this.
oh man i love your vids but this one has Shiite sound audio ... oh well. ill turn it up :)
Yes I had the recorder on the wrong setting so the audio was pretty bad. sorry about that.
I think someone with the know-how ;) could do very brisk business by buying these off hipster trustafarians when they've got bored of them (looked sooo cute with the blue ukulele and nursery toys in their neo-folk band), sawing off the useless T-Rex forelimb keyboards and selling them as neat modules for musicians ;)