I used to be relatively happy about ecumenism, but when I see the Anglicans ordain women bishops and no doubt soon marry homosexuals in church, then I can't see how ecumenism has produced anything worthwhile and it's time Orthodox Patriarchs acknowledged that.
(Of course, what we're really united against is some sort of fuzzy, artificial sense of unity that eschews doctrine in favour of a toothless, truthless, Christ-less Christianity).
Roman Catholic apologist in comments: not fair, not approved liturgy. Roman Catholic bishop in video: I'm in full communion with the Roman Pontiff and he approves of this message. Pope Francis and the South American Roman episcopate: hold my Pachamama.
Nope, we Roman Catholics (as you said) were full in communion with the one and Holy Church (ofc you would disagree). They (the pope's errand people) are just being "too loyal" or maybe innocent for didn't know that the pope isn't a God, but a vicar of Christ, so that not all the pope said are true (except he declares a dogma) If you let me to take an analogy, it would be the same as the Eastern Orthodox believers. Some of them support what Patriarch Bartholomew said, and some of them said that he was a heretic and unorthodox. Some of them said that Orthodox Church is one Holy Church, but which one? Is that the church that Patriarch Bartholomew lead? Or the church that majority Patriarch lead? Or the Church that led by Patriarch of Moscow? I don't know, because there are too many "some of them" here. I know that there are no pope in Orthodox Church, only a Primus Inter Pares. But I think you would disagree to my comment, and I just guessing that you'll say that what I'm saying was out of context. But I think this is enough for you to understand. I won't go really far.
@@hesselfridyanto Hi there. Hard for Catholics to understand that Christ is the head of the Church. You don't understand Orthodoxy on a basic level. All the bishops (including the Roman one at one time) are the Orthodox (Catholic) church headed by Christ. Each founded apostolically (like Antioch and Rome by Peter). One jurisdiction is not the head, so for you to say "which one" makes no sense lol. In our system a bishop can fall away doesn't destroy the church. In the Catholic system, the Pope cannot defect or fall away, it would mean the Church did. Catholics aren't usually aren't aware of their own theology here and the countless encyclicals that say that. Pachamama is part of your lineage now
@@TommyGunzzz hello there. Indeed, perhaps I understand nothing about your hierarchy, but you don't understand Catholicism on a basic level as well. What I say about "which one" was make sense, at least for me. Whom should an Orthodox follow? Let me use my own base of your church's hierarchy to make an example. If Moscow Patriarchate is excommunicated by all patriarchs because the problem of the OCU and UOC [(edit): and Moscow Patriarchate are become "heretic" similliar to Rome]. Who should a Moscow orthodox person follow? -Patriarch Kyrill? -Patriarch Bartholomew and other patriarchs? I don't know, you tell me. Sorry for being dumbass before, I only tired of some Orthodoxes and Catholics lay people attack each other's dogma, meanwhile they aren't clerics who are more credible. (I'm not saying that clerics are 100% right, only, generally a teacher is more credible than a student) About pachamama, pope can't bring Church down. Not all the pope's words and/or acts are right and must be followed by lay people either.
@@hesselfridyanto You are proving my point that you fundamentally dont understand Orthodoxy (Christianity), no offense, i dont mean that in a mean spirit, just something very common with Catholics. Orthodoxy is not Catholicism, you are interpreting and even asking your question through a Catholic lens. We dont have something equal to popes in the RC sense. A bishop can defect in our system, that doesn't destroy The Church, or his jurisdiction. In Catholicism, something most Catholics are ignorant to (no offense), is that the pope cannot defect, it means the church defects. The Pope also determines tradition with his actions (Havent you read Vatican 1?). You cant be disconnected to the See in any way and he cannot do anything wrong. You must follow the pope lol as a lay person, have you read Unam Sanctum or Casti Cannubii? You cannot be saved unless you are in full submission to the Bishop of Rome (juridical and nonjuridical decisions), and you are not to use any judgement of your own, it must be in accordance with the See. Are you not aware of your own encyclicals? Your pope is also leading the way for Perennialism / Universalism, with the candle light religion leaders, the Abrahamic Common House, Fratelli Tutti, The Assisi Gatherings, etc. He does not preach the Trinity or that you must be saved by Christ, he just says MSM liberal talking points, which you have to follow now to be saved. Bruh. Bruh..........
@@hesselfridyanto Lol so what about "traditiones custodes"? Pope Francis is actively trying to destroy the traditional liturgy in favour of novus ordo. But the Popes before him decided that the Latin Mass should be allowed, even Benedict said this during his pontificate and he isn't even dead yet. And still Pope Francis banned it and is doing a great injustice to traditional catholics. And you all have to follow him because he is the dictator of the church and no other bishop has any real say in the matter. Is this really the way you want your church to be ruled? Traditional catholics are being cast out when in the meantime Pope Francis loves to talk about the importance of "unity" in the church lmao... he is more comfortable being in "union" with the heretic german bishops than he is with people who are living the catholic faith like many saints have done throughout the century.
I understand what people are saying; that this is unfair because the Catholic parts of this video show so called "liturgical abuses", and not the official, approved services. Yet, as a former Roman Catholic (actually Uniate but going mostly to Roman parishes) , I have to say that, while most Catholic masses don't look as stupid as this, they mostly do lean heavily in this direction. As for those speaking about the Tridentine mass as the norm. you all know well that these make up probably less than 1% of all Catholic Masses. The norm is the Novus Ordo. Sad as this may be, this is the honest truth. Please, dear Catholics, look into Orthodoxy. If you have trouble "leaving the Pope", buy the books in this topic of Papal supremacy by Michael Whelton. If you're serious about this, I"ll send his books to you completely free. Reading this will change your faith, and your life.
@bartx 3 I am glad you watch Taylor Marshall. No, the problem of rebasptism in the Eastern Church is not an 'abuse' whether or not its unified. The Orthodox church DOES NOT recognize Catholic Baptism, as there is no sacrament outside of the church. Rather, the issue is one of economia (mercy). This means, it's a question of whether the Orthodox Christmation fills the empty Baptism of Catholics, or if it is better to simply give a true baptism. No one considers rebaptism of Catholics a rebaptism as Catholics are not baptized. Also, I love how Roman's give the impression you are United despite the fact that 90% of your church is in overt Pachama-level heresy, 8% are United to this, and 2% are Sedecacantists who are consistent but not even in the church! It's a joke.
Objection is being made to this video on the grounds that one is an isolated incident in the Catholic church and the other is the optimal reality that Orthodoxy can exhibit, but that is not entirely the point. What is conspicuous, and I think undeniable, is that this worse than nonsense can never ever happen in the Orthodox Church. Not in a million years, under any circumstances. Why? Because the standard is too high for things to degenerate to this abysmal level. A little abbreviation of the services is controversial in Orthodoxy, and is the nadir to which things are able to descend. It is, however, possible, and apparently actual, for this kind of disgusting spectacle to occur in the Catholic church, even if only once, because the standard is already so low that it appears acceptable to go a little further, or a lot further, in the direction of complete degradation. And that has to do with an attitude toward the liturgy which has prevailed in Catholicism for a long time, as Louis Bouyer pointed out. So it's not, in fact, atypical of the Catholic attitude. It's the logical conclusion of it, and as such there is grounds for comparison after all. Where's the proof? The rapid decimation of Catholic congregations and the very low level of involvement of average American Catholics in parochial life. The RC church is disappearing in America at a steady rate of attrition which is verifiable and measurable from the combined weight of scandal and sheer indifference to what is being presented to its own people. Fewer and fewer of the laity want it because they have been taught not to take it seriously. Liturgy, however, is central in the church. It is the church being the church, as the outstanding Catholic scholar Robert Taft tried with little success to tell the powers that be, and if it is ignored and abused it will take revenge. The end result is the horror story before us. And it is a horror.
Yeah💕 That's what I noticed! Most of the videos I saw about catholic vs orthodox, they chose the loud music of the catholic. But most of our mass is calm and solemn.💖💕✌️
@@Canofcactus But that doesn't represent the Roman Catholic church. I was also surprised to see that clip because I've never experience or seen videos like that before. The creator of this video really chose the embarrasing moments of the church to make us look bad, informal and etc. to the audience's eyes.
That is not a Mass. It is a great insult to our Lord. The Sacred Heart of Jesus is pained by this. It is a sacrilege. The tridentine mass should be the only mass of the Roman Catholic Church.
According to the Vatican II council, this is permitted. You have to accept this because it's part of the orindary Magesterium of the Roman church. Sorry man, the fact that this happened at all means Rome has lost the faith.
This should be labeled Roman Catholic Liturgical Abuses vs Orthodox Divine Liturgy. Or for the Roman Catholic Mass, the Coronation Mass of Pope John XXlll should be used for comparison. Both Liturgies are beautiful.
Andrew Angelo Pacheco first of all roman catholic is a protestant term. second those are protestant influenced churches. there are many western latin rite churches who practice liturgy properly. very rough misrepresentation
The only problem is that the TLM is NOT the norm. I would say liturgical abuse is the norm. I experience it everywhere, literally. I've personally witnessed ballerina masses, toilet toss carnival masses, jazz masses, the list goes on and on. I've been to many churches in different states, diocese/ archdiocese. I can't remember a time when the novus ordo mass was celebrated with reverence or anything remotely signifying the sacred. The only time I've experienced a reverent mass is when the conservative faithful priests are allowed to come out of hiding to celebrate 1 or 2 masses a year. And when they do the laity get confused. It's not what we're used to. It's a TOTALLY different experience.
The TLM is itself an innovation, the ancient Latin liturgy died long ago, Pius X planted flowers on the grave, and Vatican II fertilised it with dung. But, but... The Novus Ordo can be valid, if the xyz and the 123, with a skippety doo and a trip to the zoo. The mass was written by a Freemason who was sent to Tehran rather than excommunicated as go should have been. But... But the church cannot promulgate defective rites. You can use your theories dear fellows, I'll use my eyes.
Gregory Spontak, this is way off in comparison. You just can't compare. In your next video, if you really want to have a valid comparison, do a Traditional Latin Mass on a special occasion, let's say, ALL Souls Day. And I don't believe they had that music playing in the background for that stupid circus Mass.
This video is absurd as it posits one Catholic Mass as a norm. It is also extremely un-Christian in its lake of charity and humility. It's nothing but a cheap statement of "we're better than you are." For Shame.
What's with the phony sound effects? You are just trying to hold the Catholic Church up to ridicule. Compare the Divine Litirgy to the Tridentine Mass if you want valid comparison
The times we’re living in; may prove invaluable for the Orthodox and Roman Catholic laity to begin to “understand and sympathize” with one another. We must be there for each other: especially now.
And the worst thing about it is how contrived and artificial it it is. Screaming Allegria is not going to make people believe that there is any cause for it. It's so beyond embarrassing and infantile it's impossible to describe how embarrassing and infantile it is. If you really respect people you will not treat them like this. No wonder Catholics detest their bishops by and large. They know the bishops despise them and don't seem to give a damn about them. And they don't. They leave the paederasts in plain sight to maraud through the flock like wolves and then the bishops deny the knowledge that they clearly had of present danger, fearing bankruptcy and jail if they are caught. Hard to conceive of anything more selfish. This is not the love that pastors ought to have.
Embarrassing is accurate. Good summary! I am in Phoenix. We have a holy bishop. But , the college of Cardinals is worse than the bishops. God help us!!
Name ONE faith, one religion, or denomination that has not had sexual abuse going on by it's preachers or whoever. You can't. It happens in all of them, yes including the Orthodox and Eastern Catholics. To say otherwise makes you a hypocrite and a liar.
@@troyadamson8618 However allowing for priests who live in the world to marry declines the number of sexual abuse. What Catholicism didn't understand is that most of the humans are weak so they need some help. This is why monks live in monasteries and priests in towns are married. Yes, you'll always have abuses. But you can decrease the possibility to happen. Having a shaved and parfumed priest calls for trouble.
unfortunately the brothers used a video of a Mass in Brazil (where unfortunately modernism is wide open) but where not all Catholics agree with these MODERNISTS. We are traditional and we love the Latin Catholic tradition. Next time you go to compare, use in fact Catholic bideks, with our rich and beka traditional liturgy. Grace and peace
To suggest that the church can pass down bad rites is a heresy in the catholic church. This is a catholic mass and as a catholic you have to accept this, lest you be a heretic according to your own church.
Why are you trying to make us Catholics look bad? Because you could have chosen another mass that is more beautiful than this interesting orthodox mass. Why?!
This is not what the Catholic Church does. This is a disrespectful video a proper video would be to show the best of both churches and have the viewer decide.
Esse vídeo e desonesto e parcial com a causa, como catolico que conhece o tesouro da santa amada igreja Catolica Apostolica Romana, repodio este vídeo e o classifico como desonesto desinformado. Sou contra a qualque tipo de abuso litúrgico na santa missa Salve Maria
Paulo Ramos. O meu comentário foi um critica ao teor do conteúdo, no decorrer do vídeo ele não procura demonstrar as duas igrejas e as suas diferenças de rito ou cerimônia, mas sim exaltar uma e diminuir a outra, no caso exaltar a igreja Cotólica ortodoxa que inclusive e muito bonita com o seu rito bizantino, e diminuir a Igreja Católica Romana colocando uma celebração estranha como se está fosse a regra para todo a igreja. Isso não e honesto, pois está não e a igreja católica, na verdade ela é um tesouro imensurável com os seu santos e doutores e a sua tradição. A missa na forma latina ou forma extraordinária nunca foi abolida a a igreja não mudou após o concílio vaticano ll , na verdade o concílio vaticano ll não e um concílio dogmática isto é infalível mas sim um concílio pastoral com o intuito de poder evangelizar as pessoas num tempo diferente mas com o Evangelho mesmo de Jesus Cristo, mas infelizmente pessoas deturparam o seu sentindo e fizeram especulações infelizes no decorrer dos tempos
I've also seen some sloppy and hasty Byzantine liturgies. Nothing crazy as shown in this video of the west. I would like to see an average parish church with no professional choir, and dozens of servers.
I've never seen a hasty Orthodox liturgy but I saw a Ruthenian Catholic one that left a lot to be desired. It could happen, I suppose, but nothing like to this extent and nobody would ever deliberately set out to choreograph a perfomance like this insanity. Not in a million years.
The worse you'll find in an Eastern Orthodox liturgy is maybe a not-so great choir or an unnexperienced Priest or deacon stumbling over some words, but I have never seen a single case of outright liturgical abuse (although, I am ashamed to admit, with the covid nonsense we got very close)
Funny how you use the new mass or the protestant masses, p.s your forgetting that the pope always had authority in the church. i mean without a leader your church still has open ended questions....
Much more than catholic hierarchs do. The head of the Orthodox church is Christ. Should we start looking for a new one? No, thank you. As for the papal error, it would be very hard to find a reputable historian, Catholic or non-Catholic, anymore who would try to defend it it because the evidence is simply not in its favour and if it's historically indefensible I don't see what theological argument you can make for it. We are talking about facts here, not the delusions of the epileptic Pio Nono.
@Temesgen Abraha Yes, except sorry, they don’t all agree. If they all agreed, they would not be in schism from each other, Oriental from Eastern or vice versa, Greek from Russian or vice versa, Old Calendar from New… If they had all agreed, they would not have split with the Maronites, they would have all been able to join the relatively few who entered the Union of Brest, there wouldn’t be 3 competing Russian jurisdictions in the diaspora which haven’t always been in communion, there wouldn’t be at least 3 competing Ukrainian jurisdictions IN THE UKRAINE ITSELF, they’d accept the same baptisms (e.g. Greeks usually don’t accept non-Orthodox baptism, Russians usually do), they’d agree on whether the OCA is autocephalous or not, they’d all have been able to attend the supposed Ecumenical Council called a few yrs ago (I was in the OCA myself & knew it would be a disaster because there was no emperor to command them all to attend, & they wouldn’t accept the command of the Pope to attend), & they’d agree on things like whether unleavened bread can be used for the Eucharist. Some say it’s heretical because Roman Catholics use it, but they won’t say the Armenians, who use it, are not Orthodox. The Orthodox have what St Gregory the Theologian calls “factious division”, the result of polyarchy. Monarchy, the rule of 1, will correct it, but that requires the Pope. Who other than the Pope is the doorkeeper in Mk 13:34, a servant who has an authority over the whole house/church (because a doorkeeper can keep out or kick out whomever he needs to) until the 2nd Coming? And why are civil monarchists not also ecclesiastical monarchists? They acknowledge Christ is the King, but forget that when a king has to leave his kingdom, he appoints a SINGLE regent. He does not leave the dukes to decide things in a council, & when they can’t agree, to split up the kingdom, to build walls between parts of his realm, cutting off communion. You’re Ethiopian? The Ethiopians here don’t have a church of their own & attend the OCA church. They believe the same as I do. I accept the entire broader Ethiopian Canon, much larger than my Slavic one. Copts believe the same too. I’ve read a lot from them. There was no reason to be separated from Ethiopians, Copts, Greeks, etc.…anyone w/ the same Faith we have. So I joined the Catholic communion that has all. “Orthodox” is short for “Orthodox Catholic” anyway. And further modifiers are appended when schismatics split off, e.g. “Genuine Orthodox”. So “Orthodox” is (sadly) a mark of schism. Someone Orthodox posted somewhere that my bishop had told him union w/ Catholics was inevitable anyway. He will join eventually too.
Даниил Санчес the point is you presented an aberration as if that is our regular normal celebration of the Divine Liturgy, hence false witness. I must say that the Eastern Liturgy is sublime and ineffable and, as a Catholic, I lament the pedestrian and, frankly Protestant inroads in our liturgical reforms, But to hold Catholics up to ridicule but broadcasting the circus inspired liturgical nonsense remains a sin against charity.
So the comparison is a Catholic bishop entering on an obvious feast day. In Portugal judging from the TV station. Gladly I've never seen anything remotely like that in a Catholic Church in any of the 46 states I've been in in the US. (Those 46 states are nearly double the area of Europe.) I don't think it would even be allowed here. Also the fact the video lacks the transparency to admit this wasn't being compared to a regular Catholic Mass shows that the agenda here absolutely trumps intellectual honesty. Having been to Coptic and Byzantine Divine Liturgies I also get the feeling the video shows something akin to the Catholic High Mass in the US. So, possibly even more dishonesty in the video presentation. Now for a short critique of the Orthodox in this video. I noticed a lot of expensive, intricate, vain, and overdone decoration on the vestments. Far more fancy than the Gospel or anything involved with the presentation of the Eucharist. That could seriously lead to the pride which I see a lot of when some Orthodox talk arrogantly about "papists." All that pomp and slow motion circumstance doesn't automatically mean reverence. Neither does slow and plodding music and looking completely bored while using the censer during veneration of the Gospel necessarily mean reverence. (Maybe he'd rather be watching European football?) Perhaps this is similar to what the Portuguese mindset was: does the video also mean all those Jews were irreverent when they were energetically celebrating Christ on Palm Sunday? Do you also think David was a heretic for dancing in front of the Ark?
Notice how the Catholic liturgy are all old videos? Because the church has signally moved away from this heresy, our young priests are holy men that are replacing the old blasphemous bishops and cardinals, what you should also understand is that The Roman Catholic Church was started before the Orthodox by Christ himself, the orthodox broke from us. However it should be worth noting that the orthodox also are able to consecrate hosts, meaning they are very similar to the Catholic Church, instead of fighting amongst ourselves m, the orthodox should “team up” with the Catholics to fight the militant atheists who are attacking both of our religions. We have more in common with each other than the enemy, the evil one wants us to be divided. The Catholic Church still stands up to much madness of the world. God bless.
Original Orthodox Liturgy has no choir. It is only psalms strictly male voices, never females. This choir thing is a catholic influence and has nothing to do with the original Orthodox practice as this comes from our Holy Fathers. Artistic music and any other form of art eg statues and are not allowed in Orthodox services, Jesus doesnt need any beautification. Orthodox icons are there only to serve as opttical mediums to connect with the Saints, nothing more, thats the reason why you will never see any beautification on the faces and orthodox icon creation follows strict rules. It would be better to do the comparison with a pure Orthodox liturgy with original psalms, and not an ecumenical mock Orthodox one. Catholic church has absolutely no spirituality, it is just a show playing with human authority. In Orthdoxy the only ones who have authority are God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
Dem Kouts Orthodox church has many practicers, and liturgies are different in the many different cultures. Maybe female choirs are not original in your church, but they are normal in others
@@lucyporriton6162 @Lucy Porriton no it doesnt. Whoever says that is influenced by herecies. Orthodox church is one and follows the Holy Fathers, and female choirs are not acceptable. Iknow that some churches do have female choirs, but this is not right,they are influenced by popists.
@@lucyporriton6162 in the Holy Πηδάλιο, (I dont know how it is translated in English), which is the book of the ancient rules of Orthodox church, that must be followed in order to keep Orthodoxy the one and holy church of Christ
I used to be relatively happy about ecumenism, but when I see the Anglicans ordain women bishops and no doubt soon marry homosexuals in church, then I can't see how ecumenism has produced anything worthwhile and it's time Orthodox Patriarchs acknowledged that.
Orthodox bishops were and still are against Ecumenism, don't worry. :)
Then why are the Orthodox somewhat in a communion with anglicans?
@@RezaChity-G they are not
Traditionalist Protestants are also against Ecumenism. We can be united in our insistence that we remain separate!
(Of course, what we're really united against is some sort of fuzzy, artificial sense of unity that eschews doctrine in favour of a toothless, truthless, Christ-less Christianity).
Roman Catholic apologist in comments: not fair, not approved liturgy.
Roman Catholic bishop in video: I'm in full communion with the Roman Pontiff and he approves of this message.
Pope Francis and the South American Roman episcopate: hold my Pachamama.
Nope, we Roman Catholics (as you said) were full in communion with the one and Holy Church (ofc you would disagree). They (the pope's errand people) are just being "too loyal" or maybe innocent for didn't know that the pope isn't a God, but a vicar of Christ, so that not all the pope said are true (except he declares a dogma)
If you let me to take an analogy, it would be the same as the Eastern Orthodox believers. Some of them support what Patriarch Bartholomew said, and some of them said that he was a heretic and unorthodox. Some of them said that Orthodox Church is one Holy Church, but which one? Is that the church that Patriarch Bartholomew lead? Or the church that majority Patriarch lead? Or the Church that led by Patriarch of Moscow? I don't know, because there are too many "some of them" here. I know that there are no pope in Orthodox Church, only a Primus Inter Pares.
But I think you would disagree to my comment, and I just guessing that you'll say that what I'm saying was out of context. But I think this is enough for you to understand. I won't go really far.
@@hesselfridyanto Hi there. Hard for Catholics to understand that Christ is the head of the Church. You don't understand Orthodoxy on a basic level. All the bishops (including the Roman one at one time) are the Orthodox (Catholic) church headed by Christ. Each founded apostolically (like Antioch and Rome by Peter). One jurisdiction is not the head, so for you to say "which one" makes no sense lol.
In our system a bishop can fall away doesn't destroy the church. In the Catholic system, the Pope cannot defect or fall away, it would mean the Church did. Catholics aren't usually aren't aware of their own theology here and the countless encyclicals that say that. Pachamama is part of your lineage now
@@TommyGunzzz hello there. Indeed, perhaps I understand nothing about your hierarchy, but you don't understand Catholicism on a basic level as well.
What I say about "which one" was make sense, at least for me. Whom should an Orthodox follow?
Let me use my own base of your church's hierarchy to make an example. If Moscow Patriarchate is excommunicated by all patriarchs because the problem of the OCU and UOC [(edit): and Moscow Patriarchate are become "heretic" similliar to Rome]. Who should a Moscow orthodox person follow?
-Patriarch Kyrill?
-Patriarch Bartholomew and other patriarchs?
I don't know, you tell me. Sorry for being dumbass before, I only tired of some Orthodoxes and Catholics lay people attack each other's dogma, meanwhile they aren't clerics who are more credible. (I'm not saying that clerics are 100% right, only, generally a teacher is more credible than a student)
About pachamama, pope can't bring Church down. Not all the pope's words and/or acts are right and must be followed by lay people either.
@@hesselfridyanto You are proving my point that you fundamentally dont understand Orthodoxy (Christianity), no offense, i dont mean that in a mean spirit, just something very common with Catholics.
Orthodoxy is not Catholicism, you are interpreting and even asking your question through a Catholic lens. We dont have something equal to popes in the RC sense. A bishop can defect in our system, that doesn't destroy The Church, or his jurisdiction. In Catholicism, something most Catholics are ignorant to (no offense), is that the pope cannot defect, it means the church defects. The Pope also determines tradition with his actions (Havent you read Vatican 1?). You cant be disconnected to the See in any way and he cannot do anything wrong. You must follow the pope lol as a lay person, have you read Unam Sanctum or Casti Cannubii? You cannot be saved unless you are in full submission to the Bishop of Rome (juridical and nonjuridical decisions), and you are not to use any judgement of your own, it must be in accordance with the See. Are you not aware of your own encyclicals? Your pope is also leading the way for Perennialism / Universalism, with the candle light religion leaders, the Abrahamic Common House, Fratelli Tutti, The Assisi Gatherings, etc. He does not preach the Trinity or that you must be saved by Christ, he just says MSM liberal talking points, which you have to follow now to be saved. Bruh. Bruh..........
@@hesselfridyanto Lol so what about "traditiones custodes"? Pope Francis is actively trying to destroy the traditional liturgy in favour of novus ordo. But the Popes before him decided that the Latin Mass should be allowed, even Benedict said this during his pontificate and he isn't even dead yet. And still Pope Francis banned it and is doing a great injustice to traditional catholics. And you all have to follow him because he is the dictator of the church and no other bishop has any real say in the matter. Is this really the way you want your church to be ruled? Traditional catholics are being cast out when in the meantime Pope Francis loves to talk about the importance of "unity" in the church lmao... he is more comfortable being in "union" with the heretic german bishops than he is with people who are living the catholic faith like many saints have done throughout the century.
To those who are curious on what circus music was used in that catholic mass well that music is called "Entry of the Gladiators"
A regrettable choice! All of it is regrettable.
I understand what people are saying; that this is unfair because the Catholic parts of this video show so called "liturgical abuses", and not the official, approved services. Yet, as a former Roman Catholic (actually Uniate but going mostly to Roman parishes) , I have to say that, while most Catholic masses don't look as stupid as this, they mostly do lean heavily in this direction. As for those speaking about the Tridentine mass as the norm. you all know well that these make up probably less than 1% of all Catholic Masses. The norm is the Novus Ordo. Sad as this may be, this is the honest truth. Please, dear Catholics, look into Orthodoxy. If you have trouble "leaving the Pope", buy the books in this topic of Papal supremacy by Michael Whelton. If you're serious about this, I"ll send his books to you completely free. Reading this will change your faith, and your life.
@bartx 3 I am glad you watch Taylor Marshall.
No, the problem of rebasptism in the Eastern Church is not an 'abuse' whether or not its unified. The Orthodox church DOES NOT recognize Catholic Baptism, as there is no sacrament outside of the church. Rather, the issue is one of economia (mercy). This means, it's a question of whether the Orthodox Christmation fills the empty Baptism of Catholics, or if it is better to simply give a true baptism. No one considers rebaptism of Catholics a rebaptism as Catholics are not baptized.
Also, I love how Roman's give the impression you are United despite the fact that 90% of your church is in overt Pachama-level heresy, 8% are United to this, and 2% are Sedecacantists who are consistent but not even in the church! It's a joke.
I ain't converting to your lil shitty religion
Objection is being made to this video on the grounds that one is an isolated incident in the Catholic church and the other is the optimal reality that Orthodoxy can exhibit, but that is not entirely the point. What is conspicuous, and I think undeniable, is that this worse than nonsense can never ever happen in the Orthodox Church. Not in a million years, under any circumstances. Why? Because the standard is too high for things to degenerate to this abysmal level. A little abbreviation of the services is controversial in Orthodoxy, and is the nadir to which things are able to descend. It is, however, possible, and apparently actual, for this kind of disgusting spectacle to occur in the Catholic church, even if only once, because the standard is already so low that it appears acceptable to go a little further, or a lot further, in the direction of complete degradation. And that has to do with an attitude toward the liturgy which has prevailed in Catholicism for a long time, as Louis Bouyer pointed out. So it's not, in fact, atypical of the Catholic attitude. It's the logical conclusion of it, and as such there is grounds for comparison after all. Where's the proof? The rapid decimation of Catholic congregations and the very low level of involvement of average American Catholics in parochial life. The RC church is disappearing in America at a steady rate of attrition which is verifiable and measurable from the combined weight of scandal and sheer indifference to what is being presented to its own people. Fewer and fewer of the laity want it because they have been taught not to take it seriously. Liturgy, however, is central in the church. It is the church being the church, as the outstanding Catholic scholar Robert Taft tried with little success to tell the powers that be, and if it is ignored and abused it will take revenge. The end result is the horror story before us. And it is a horror.
Nice essay
A few weeks ago in the Greek orthodox church some bishop married a homosexual couple
They chose all the clips where we sing songs on celebrations, and didn't even try to look for when we use hymns
You right Papa Francis
Yeah💕
That's what I noticed!
Most of the videos I saw about catholic vs orthodox, they chose the loud music of the catholic.
But most of our mass is calm and solemn.💖💕✌️
@@user-vz1so5dt2t ye right
@@Canofcactus But that doesn't represent the Roman Catholic church.
I was also surprised to see that clip because I've never experience or seen videos like that before. The creator of this video really chose the embarrasing moments of the church to make us look bad, informal and etc. to the audience's eyes.
Come back to the Tridentine Mass.
That is not a Mass. It is a great insult to our Lord. The Sacred Heart of Jesus is pained by this. It is a sacrilege. The tridentine mass should be the only mass of the Roman Catholic Church.
You’re correct when you say that’s not a mass. It looks like some sort of assembly. Therefore, this entire video is a ridiculous comparison.
It's your church bud. This is what your pope has wrought. Submit to the pope.
According to the Vatican II council, this is permitted. You have to accept this because it's part of the orindary Magesterium of the Roman church. Sorry man, the fact that this happened at all means Rome has lost the faith.
Austin Horton if there’s people who still practice the Tridentine Mass then Rome is still a little bit a alive
Traditional Latin mass or nothing
Reason for which so many Catholic priests are now offering the Latin Mass.
This should be labeled Roman Catholic Liturgical Abuses vs Orthodox Divine Liturgy. Or for the Roman Catholic Mass, the Coronation Mass of Pope John XXlll should be used for comparison. Both Liturgies are beautiful.
Thank you for the sanity, Andrew.
These videos are sadly put up by the most spurious motives, and only seek to cause division.
Andrew Angelo Pacheco first of all roman catholic is a protestant term. second those are protestant influenced churches. there are many western latin rite churches who practice liturgy properly. very rough misrepresentation
The only problem is that the TLM is NOT the norm. I would say liturgical abuse is the norm. I experience it everywhere, literally. I've personally witnessed ballerina masses, toilet toss carnival masses, jazz masses, the list goes on and on. I've been to many churches in different states, diocese/ archdiocese. I can't remember a time when the novus ordo mass was celebrated with reverence or anything remotely signifying the sacred. The only time I've experienced a reverent mass is when the conservative faithful priests are allowed to come out of hiding to celebrate 1 or 2 masses a year. And when they do the laity get confused. It's not what we're used to. It's a TOTALLY different experience.
The TLM is itself an innovation, the ancient Latin liturgy died long ago, Pius X planted flowers on the grave, and Vatican II fertilised it with dung.
But, but... The Novus Ordo can be valid, if the xyz and the 123, with a skippety doo and a trip to the zoo. The mass was written by a Freemason who was sent to Tehran rather than excommunicated as go should have been. But... But the church cannot promulgate defective rites. You can use your theories dear fellows, I'll use my eyes.
Post a link of one Orthodoxy liturgy abuse.
Gregory Spontak, this is way off in comparison. You just can't compare. In your next video, if you really want to have a valid comparison, do a Traditional Latin Mass on a special occasion, let's say, ALL Souls Day. And I don't believe they had that music playing in the background for that stupid circus Mass.
This video is absurd as it posits one Catholic Mass as a norm. It is also extremely un-Christian in its lake of charity and humility. It's nothing but a cheap statement of "we're better than you are." For Shame.
What's with the phony sound effects? You are just trying to hold the Catholic Church up to ridicule. Compare the Divine Litirgy to the Tridentine Mass if you want valid comparison
+djpalindrome
I wish the sound effects were phony.
Divine Liturgy is still better than Tridentine Mass.
Lol no, it's not the official mass of the Roman Catholic Church.
What sound effects?
The times we’re living in; may prove invaluable for the Orthodox and Roman Catholic laity to begin to “understand and sympathize” with one another.
We must be there for each other: especially now.
not to mention that despite the modernism in the Basilica of Nossa Senhora Aparecida, music from a circus in the Liturgy would NEVER be used
I think the catholic scenes was taken from Easter Sunday Mass
Where?
Brazil
And the worst thing about it is how contrived and artificial it it is. Screaming Allegria is not going to make people believe that there is any cause for it. It's so beyond embarrassing and infantile it's impossible to describe how embarrassing and infantile it is. If you really respect people you will not treat them like this. No wonder Catholics detest their bishops by and large. They know the bishops despise them and don't seem to give a damn about them. And they don't. They leave the paederasts in plain sight to maraud through the flock like wolves and then the bishops deny the knowledge that they clearly had of present danger, fearing bankruptcy and jail if they are caught. Hard to conceive of anything more selfish. This is not the love that pastors ought to have.
Embarrassing is accurate. Good summary! I am in Phoenix. We have a holy bishop. But , the college of Cardinals is worse than the bishops. God help us!!
Name ONE faith, one religion, or denomination that has not had sexual abuse going on by it's preachers or whoever. You can't. It happens in all of them, yes including the Orthodox and Eastern Catholics. To say otherwise makes you a hypocrite and a liar.
@@troyadamson8618 However allowing for priests who live in the world to marry declines the number of sexual abuse.
What Catholicism didn't understand is that most of the humans are weak so they need some help. This is why monks live in monasteries and priests in towns are married.
Yes, you'll always have abuses. But you can decrease the possibility to happen. Having a shaved and parfumed priest calls for trouble.
That church with a parade is in Brazil
Of course it is.
Truly misleading!
Example of Orthodox "charity" and artogance!
@Kristi Harbin Don’t confuse arrogance with dignity, although some of the comments are not in the spirit of Orthodoxy. May God bless you.
I agree with marcus
unfortunately the brothers used a video of a Mass in Brazil (where unfortunately modernism is wide open) but where not all Catholics agree with these MODERNISTS. We are traditional and we love the Latin Catholic tradition. Next time you go to compare, use in fact Catholic bideks, with our rich and beka traditional liturgy. Grace and peace
Sorry Pope forbid Latin Mass
8:48 no Catholic is the original church. That is literally propaganda
This is not propaganda. What he put in the video is real. But ofc most catholics disagree with it
The Catholic mass seems like the equivalent of Ringling brothers circus LOL.
Thi is not a Catholic Mass, is the Vatican II's Mass.
To suggest that the church can pass down bad rites is a heresy in the catholic church. This is a catholic mass and as a catholic you have to accept this, lest you be a heretic according to your own church.
This is not true. The mass is not done in that way
Why are you trying to make us Catholics look bad? Because you could have chosen another mass that is more beautiful than this interesting orthodox mass. Why?!
This is not what the Catholic Church does. This is a disrespectful video a proper video would be to show the best of both churches and have the viewer decide.
When 98% of the catholic masses is the new novus ordo he can't choose to show the Traditional latin mass. He has to compare what is being used more
Esse vídeo e desonesto e parcial com a causa, como catolico que conhece o tesouro da santa amada igreja Catolica Apostolica Romana, repodio este vídeo e o classifico como desonesto desinformado. Sou contra a qualque tipo de abuso litúrgico na santa missa Salve Maria
Paulo Ramos. O meu comentário foi um critica ao teor do conteúdo, no decorrer do vídeo ele não procura demonstrar as duas igrejas e as suas diferenças de rito ou cerimônia, mas sim exaltar uma e diminuir a outra, no caso exaltar a igreja Cotólica ortodoxa que inclusive e muito bonita com o seu rito bizantino, e diminuir a Igreja Católica Romana colocando uma celebração estranha como se está fosse a regra para todo a igreja. Isso não e honesto, pois está não e a igreja católica, na verdade ela é um tesouro imensurável com os seu santos e doutores e a sua tradição. A missa na forma latina ou forma extraordinária nunca foi abolida a a igreja não mudou após o concílio vaticano ll , na verdade o concílio vaticano ll não e um concílio dogmática isto é infalível mas sim um concílio pastoral com o intuito de poder evangelizar as pessoas num tempo diferente mas com o Evangelho mesmo de Jesus Cristo, mas infelizmente pessoas deturparam o seu sentindo e fizeram especulações infelizes no decorrer dos tempos
All the Catholics in the comments coping. It’s not cherry picking if there’s no comparable Orthodox example of this clown nonsense 😂
0:20. 2:20. 7:31. 8:59.
SEE EVERYONE IS RIGHT IN HIS OR HER OWN WAY WHICH IS THE TRUE CHURCH JESUS KNOWS THE BEST IT'S UPTO HIM.....
Austin Rodriguez The Eastern Orthodox Church is the True Church.
@@TheRealRealOK can we just not fight and see that no one can be the original since there is conflict over it
Jesus founded one church. Heretics separated from this church and formed their own churches.
Catholic modernism btw. Typical eastern orthodox video about liturgy. It shows how Eastern orthodox does not have any knowlegde about Catholicism.
I've also seen some sloppy and hasty Byzantine liturgies. Nothing crazy as shown in this video of the west.
I would like to see an average parish church with no professional choir, and dozens of servers.
I've never seen a hasty Orthodox liturgy but I saw a Ruthenian Catholic one that left a lot to be desired. It could happen, I suppose, but nothing like to this extent and nobody would ever deliberately set out to choreograph a perfomance like this insanity. Not in a million years.
The worse you'll find in an Eastern Orthodox liturgy is maybe a not-so great choir or an unnexperienced Priest or deacon stumbling over some words, but I have never seen a single case of outright liturgical abuse (although, I am ashamed to admit, with the covid nonsense we got very close)
Actually when an orthodox church service is done correctly, there is no choir. There is only a chanter or there can be several but not a Chior.
Funny how you use the new mass or the protestant masses, p.s your forgetting that the pope always had authority in the church.
i mean without a leader your church still has open ended questions....
Much more than catholic hierarchs do. The head of the Orthodox church is Christ. Should we start looking for a new one? No, thank you. As for the papal error, it would be very hard to find a reputable historian, Catholic or non-Catholic, anymore who would try to defend it it because the evidence is simply not in its favour and if it's historically indefensible I don't see what theological argument you can make for it. We are talking about facts here, not the delusions of the epileptic Pio Nono.
@Temesgen Abraha Yes, except sorry, they don’t all agree. If they all agreed, they would not be in schism from each other, Oriental from Eastern or vice versa, Greek from Russian or vice versa, Old Calendar from New… If they had all agreed, they would not have split with the Maronites, they would have all been able to join the relatively few who entered the Union of Brest, there wouldn’t be 3 competing Russian jurisdictions in the diaspora which haven’t always been in communion, there wouldn’t be at least 3 competing Ukrainian jurisdictions IN THE UKRAINE ITSELF, they’d accept the same baptisms (e.g. Greeks usually don’t accept non-Orthodox baptism, Russians usually do), they’d agree on whether the OCA is autocephalous or not, they’d all have been able to attend the supposed Ecumenical Council called a few yrs ago (I was in the OCA myself & knew it would be a disaster because there was no emperor to command them all to attend, & they wouldn’t accept the command of the Pope to attend), & they’d agree on things like whether unleavened bread can be used for the Eucharist. Some say it’s heretical because Roman Catholics use it, but they won’t say the Armenians, who use it, are not Orthodox. The Orthodox have what St Gregory the Theologian calls “factious division”, the result of polyarchy. Monarchy, the rule of 1, will correct it, but that requires the Pope. Who other than the Pope is the doorkeeper in Mk 13:34, a servant who has an authority over the whole house/church (because a doorkeeper can keep out or kick out whomever he needs to) until the 2nd Coming? And why are civil monarchists not also ecclesiastical monarchists? They acknowledge Christ is the King, but forget that when a king has to leave his kingdom, he appoints a SINGLE regent. He does not leave the dukes to decide things in a council, & when they can’t agree, to split up the kingdom, to build walls between parts of his realm, cutting off communion. You’re Ethiopian? The Ethiopians here don’t have a church of their own & attend the OCA church. They believe the same as I do. I accept the entire broader Ethiopian Canon, much larger than my Slavic one. Copts believe the same too. I’ve read a lot from them. There was no reason to be separated from Ethiopians, Copts, Greeks, etc.…anyone w/ the same Faith we have. So I joined the Catholic communion that has all. “Orthodox” is short for “Orthodox Catholic” anyway. And further modifiers are appended when schismatics split off, e.g. “Genuine Orthodox”. So “Orthodox” is (sadly) a mark of schism. Someone Orthodox posted somewhere that my bishop had told him union w/ Catholics was inevitable anyway. He will join eventually too.
The “procession” shown is not anything I have ever seen. So you are bearing false witness.
Well the video is right there before your eyes
Даниил Санчес the point is you presented an aberration as if that is our regular normal celebration of the Divine Liturgy, hence false witness. I must say that the Eastern Liturgy is sublime and ineffable and, as a Catholic, I lament the pedestrian and, frankly Protestant inroads in our liturgical reforms, But to hold Catholics up to ridicule but broadcasting the circus inspired liturgical nonsense remains a sin against charity.
@@Oculoustuos deliberately avoiding the central point is a sin against reason.
So the comparison is a Catholic bishop entering on an obvious feast day. In Portugal judging from the TV station. Gladly I've never seen anything remotely like that in a Catholic Church in any of the 46 states I've been in in the US. (Those 46 states are nearly double the area of Europe.) I don't think it would even be allowed here. Also the fact the video lacks the transparency to admit this wasn't being compared to a regular Catholic Mass shows that the agenda here absolutely trumps intellectual honesty. Having been to Coptic and Byzantine Divine Liturgies I also get the feeling the video shows something akin to the Catholic High Mass in the US. So, possibly even more dishonesty in the video presentation.
Now for a short critique of the Orthodox in this video. I noticed a lot of expensive, intricate, vain, and overdone decoration on the vestments. Far more fancy than the Gospel or anything involved with the presentation of the Eucharist. That could seriously lead to the pride which I see a lot of when some Orthodox talk arrogantly about "papists."
All that pomp and slow motion circumstance doesn't automatically mean reverence. Neither does slow and plodding music and looking completely bored while using the censer during veneration of the Gospel necessarily mean reverence. (Maybe he'd rather be watching European football?)
Perhaps this is similar to what the Portuguese mindset was: does the video also mean all those Jews were irreverent when they were energetically celebrating Christ on Palm Sunday? Do you also think David was a heretic for dancing in front of the Ark?
What
I am Catholic and is false
Notice how the Catholic liturgy are all old videos? Because the church has signally moved away from this heresy, our young priests are holy men that are replacing the old blasphemous bishops and cardinals, what you should also understand is that The Roman Catholic Church was started before the Orthodox by Christ himself, the orthodox broke from us. However it should be worth noting that the orthodox also are able to consecrate hosts, meaning they are very similar to the Catholic Church, instead of fighting amongst ourselves m, the orthodox should “team up” with the Catholics to fight the militant atheists who are attacking both of our religions. We have more in common with each other than the enemy, the evil one wants us to be divided. The Catholic Church still stands up to much madness of the world. God bless.
102 Jesuits - dislike
Original Orthodox Liturgy has no choir. It is only psalms strictly male voices, never females. This choir thing is a catholic influence and has nothing to do with the original Orthodox practice as this comes from our Holy Fathers. Artistic music and any other form of art eg statues and are not allowed in Orthodox services, Jesus doesnt need any beautification. Orthodox icons are there only to serve as opttical mediums to connect with the Saints, nothing more, thats the reason why you will never see any beautification on the faces and orthodox icon creation follows strict rules. It would be better to do the comparison with a pure Orthodox liturgy with original psalms, and not an ecumenical mock Orthodox one.
Catholic church has absolutely no spirituality, it is just a show playing with human authority. In Orthdoxy the only ones who have authority are God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
Dem Kouts Orthodox church has many practicers, and liturgies are different in the many different cultures. Maybe female choirs are not original in your church, but they are normal in others
@@lucyporriton6162 @Lucy Porriton no it doesnt. Whoever says that is influenced by herecies. Orthodox church is one and follows the Holy Fathers, and female choirs are not acceptable. Iknow that some churches do have female choirs, but this is not right,they are influenced by popists.
Dem Kouts anyway, where does it say in the scriptures that female quoirs are ‘unacceptable’??
@@lucyporriton6162 in the Holy Πηδάλιο, (I dont know how it is translated in English), which is the book of the ancient rules of Orthodox church, that must be followed in order to keep Orthodoxy the one and holy church of Christ
Are you True Orthodox?
This is such a dumb comparison. Jajajajaj... thanks for the laughs though
Lmao orthodogs are off one today
>orthodogs
I'm guessing you hate the uniates too lol
yup