Yes! I Agree, The mod should be allowed! All it does is prevent your game from crashing, and it’s actually ridiculous that they declined the run just for that.
The controversy can easily be solved in 3 ways 1. Allow the mod 2. Patch world preview so it doesn’t crash 3. Make a new mod that is verifiable and achieves the same thing
I think a good course of action is this: 1. Allow the mod. 2. Then re-review this run and allow it given the new rules. 3. Have two flares on every run. One flare for if the run is still valid given updated rules, and a second flare for whether the run was valid given the rules when the run was submitted. The third step is important because it still incentivizes runners to go out of their way to make sure they are following the speedrunning guidelines and not hoping the mods will bend the rules if they do achieve a WR. Runners would rather have an uncontested WR than one with a flare stating they did not follow the rules provided at the time. But, this policy would still allow the mods to allow obviously legitimate runs where the runner forgot to cross all their t's and dot all their i's. Another positive benefit of this policy is that the mods can have their cake and eat it too: they can stay consistent to their policies while still allowing legit runners who did not follow guidelines to be on the leaderboard. A final positive benefit of this policy is that old runs that used to be valid but no longer are would be specified as such. This would allow us to better compare old runs that used strategies/mods that are no longer allowed so we can compare apples to apples.
If this part is true, this absolutely is just favoritism. It's an open-source mod, anyone can look at it. I can't fathom why "some are more equal than others" in this scenario. Drip won.
The minecraft speedrun mod team is ridiculous. So an external tool to find the exact position of the stronghold is allowed but something that prevents game crashes isn’t.
Iirc the argument for why calcs are allowed is that you can technically learn to do it by memory and calculations alone. What's stopping someone from pausing the game to do the calculation themselves lmao I still find the calc existing an unfortunate thing mind you, but I can kinda stand by the decision when without the decision, it would be optimal to pause the game while doing the calc by yourself, and take however long you need to do so.
Well the problem isn't really that the mod isn't allowed, like it's understandable by the sheer amount of mods that exists, that not every technically legal mod is actually explicitly legalized. The problem is that by the time of the run it wasn't legal to use the mod, thus by technicality this run broke the rule. Basically the mod team has to reject this run out of fairness and upholding the rule everyone has agreed to. The mod team also has to be super vigilant with any "world Record", take dreams run for example. All in all this situation is unfortunate, but I think it shouldn't be too much of a problem, because it should be possible to make the use of this mod legal and than have the run be resubmitted.
It's a matter of rules and technicalities. The mod wasn't disruptive, but any mod not explicitly legalised is forbidden. So, per protocol, the run was rejected. Since it's the job of the team to uphold the rules, it's arguably the right move to do so. They gotta play by their own rules if they want to be taken seriously. Now, they should probably just allow the mod so the run can be resubmitted, though.
this run was insane, i remember seeing it in my youtube recommended thinking it was troll because of how little time it had been since NoFear's run. But wow. This game is a crazy one and RSG WR will never not be unfathomably impressive
The blue text at 16:43 is basically exactly what should be done. If a mod is used that is only for performance and quality of life, the speedrun should be allowed. Of course it should be heavily investigated but if the mod is harmless, there’s no reason it should stop a run from being verified. Imo the mod team definitely owes an apology to the people they’ve done this to, even if they didn’t necessarily want to do it.
the thing is you'd ahve to do this for every leaderboard submission, which just sounds impossible. you have to admit that the decision of the mod team to treat all runs the same is respectable, irrregardles if they wr or not
@@fojtchdid they treat everything the same? Since drip had a 9 before this (which i assume used the same mod) and wasn't that run on the leaderboards?
This isn't feasible atm. The run verifiers already spend a lot of their own time verifying runs for no monetary compensation. The queue to get a 1.16 rsg run verified is about 4 months at the moment if my recently verified run is any good estimate. It's unfair to go up to people already doing a lot of work for the sake of the community out of kindness alone and tell them they also have to start investigating code and all of the interactions it has with the game to ensure it grants no unfair advantage. If you want a mod to be allowed, petition/argue for it, and get it approved. The work done in verification shouldn't go any further than a check to see if used mods match something that is allowed. The game's too hard to moderate already - there's no reason to just tack on more variables into the verification process when there just don't have to be.
And to think if he hadn't missed that pearl, if he got 1 blaze rod from the first 3 that he killed, if he hadn't went for that gold block, if his hands were a little faster at crafting, he would've been the first sub-7 runner ever, is crazy, extremely impressive nonetheless.
The thing about that is, they're very human mistakes. There will always be plenty of those to find in any speedrun, even if they are drastically reduced as people practice more. Any run without any human error would be a TAS. And since these happen in every run, it ends up coming down to luck to the same degree as saying "If only he had gotten all the blaze rods from the first few blazes", you could say this, but ultimately over time this averages out into the field of statistics rather than random luck or skill (unless you're Dream ofc /s). It's an inconsequential statement and it would be better to appreciate the massive skill required to get to this level rather than saying the 'if only' statement that Drip is probably feeling bad about already.
16:22 if they rejected the run because they care about other players and want to be fair to them, then i think they should listen if those same players are asking for this wr to be on the leaderboards
I think there should be an exception like with illumina when he had fabric api installed and it was still allowed since he was a trusted runner, it's hard not to drawcomparasons here
@@Arnav_was_taken Drips run was livestreamed... The mods are able to actually confirm that the mod doesn't hide anything because it's open sourced... It was because he's a trusted runner... The mods literally said themselves the mod that couldn't allow the run to be verified was harmless...
@@blastburne7465 Technically not true, the source code is public, but the mod drip had might not have been that mod, it could be modified after the fact. A hash of the mod would have to be performed and compared against the compiled version to be certain it was truly the same mod.
I hope they make that decision soon. Denying this run is a spit in the face to this community's collective effort over these past few years, and especially towards such an incredible run with such a harmless, open source mod installed for the sole sake of crash prevention. I've generally agreed with the mods in the past on their decisions, but keeping this run denied will severely dampen my trust in their judgement. We should not be punishing players for having poorer hardware when they're using provably fair mods to equalize the playing field - the last thing MC speedrunning needs is a fat paywall in the form of a beefy computer
@@zacharia4061 Discussions are actively happening, both between the mod team and within the community. We need to make it clear that this run is legitimate and belongs on the leaderboard, surely they will listen if the community desires it
The feature where you can find an endportal frame block in a chart probably is the best thing of this run, (to me) since It takes me like 30mins to find the end portal
Yeah this should definitely be allowed. If all this mod does is make it so worse computers can perform at the same level as everyone else then I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be allowed, as all it does in broaden who is eligible to compete. In fact from a certain view disallowing it makes these world records pay to win in a way, since only the people with the best computers can do the most runs without fear of crashing and therefore have the best chance of winning.
This should very clearly be put on the leaderboard, and the mods can do it very easily. The "illegal mod" is just an optimizer for an existing allowed mod and the entire point of the allowed mods list is to allow optimized clients so lower end pcs don't hold back amazing runners.
@@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714 The leaderboard is *right under the rules of the leaderboard*. If the run breaks rules, it's not on the leaderboards, *that's how rules work*.
For some reason the argument from the moderation team is false because many exceptions were made in different rules,for example sagi enderman who generated a seed (unintentionally) in the middle of his run.
I think a good course of action is this: 1. Allow the mod. 2. Then re-review this run and allow it given the new rules. 3. Have two flares on every run. One flare for if the run is still valid given updated rules, and a second flare for whether the run was valid given the rules when the run was submitted. The third step is important because it still incentivizes runners to go out of their way to make sure they are following the speedrunning guidelines and not hoping the mods will bend the rules if they do achieve a WR. Runners would rather have an uncontested WR than one with a flare stating they did not follow the rules provided at the time. But, this policy would still allow the mods to allow obviously legitimate runs where the runner forgot to cross all their t's and dot all their i's. Another positive benefit of this policy is that the mods can have their cake and eat it too: they can stay consistent to their policies while still allowing legit runners who did not follow guidelines to be on the leaderboard. A final positive benefit of this policy is that old runs that used to be valid but no longer are would be specified as such. This would allow us to better compare old runs that used strategies/mods that are no longer allowed so we can compare apples to apples.
being a part of the community during this whole thing has been awesome, for past world records they would always come whenever i take a break from speedrunning and would only find ouy months later
its crazy to see that this could have been sub 7. if the crafting at the beggining was a little bit smoother and if the fumble to find the ignition for the last nether portal wasn't there it could have been a sub 7 run! its exciting to see that there is potential for faster runs even in an unfathomably fast speedrun.
If you got the world record, and you didn't cheat in the game, you got the world record. If exceptions have been made in the past, as people are saying, it seems insane for an *open-source* mod to have caused this barring from the leaderboard.
Speaking of world records. I know this run is a year old, but could you guys do a video on Feinbergs 2:45:05 all advancements speedrun. All advancements isn't as popular but the speedrunners there should also get some praise for doing such grueling runs.
I can't belive they thought saying that they rejected other runs for the same reason would make people less upset IM EVEN MORE UPSET BY THOSE OTHER RECORDS WHO NEVER GOT THE RECOGNITION THEY DESERVE
@@nothingherezero7182 no, they're rationalizing being lazy. trying to be fair would be fixing the rules and taking the effort to retroactively apply it.
Yeah, like okay what reasoning did you give to the *first* person rejected for this? If that reasoning was good, then that's your real answer and you should say so; if that reasoning was bad, then the first person's run should not have been rejected in the first place and therefore you can't use their rejection as justification.
My main question after watching this is how are half the mods runners use allowed? World preview and perfomance mods, I get that, but stuff like the stronghold calculator and mods that automatically put items of the same type into the hotbar? Idk about that
The rule should be changed to (something like) if you get a record or PB that you want verified and you’re using a mod that wasn’t specifically allowed then the run and mod are reviewed for verification and the mod becomes specifically legal if it’s not effecting the game/loot at all
Making exceptions for rules that you've already applied to others can only delegitimize the boards. Their original decision was completely justifiable. Outrage and the specialness of the run are completely irrelevant.
Well Drip is pretty deserved for this speedrun to be accepted officially, as he didn't use a mod that can side by side affect the overall gameplay, this was nothing except a performance booster mod which isn't supposedly be included in the list of cheat contributers. The moderators should be reconsidering this matter.
i don’t know if you have seen the channel tomatoanus but his videos are exactly like that! in depth explanation of the strata and tricks in a speedrun, voiceovered in real time to match the length of the run.
Mods showed install the mod and check it to make sure that there’s no extra code to affect gameplay. If it truly is just a stability mod like it claimed then it should have no problems passing a test.
Its an open source mod, everyone can look into the code and see that it doesnt do anything else. The only reason the mods arent doing it is to "set an example".
I've never really touched Minecraft, but I have speedran Celeste (29:57 any%), Portal (17:01 INSLA), and Karlson (3:08 any%). I've also dabbled in Neon White, but haven't done many full-game runs. I think it's against the spirit of fairness for the Minecraft moderators to not verify a run just because the runner used a harmless quality of life mod. They know the mod can't be used to cheat, so there's no reason to reject runs for using it.
Wow. That's probably the fastest end enter. I've seen people get to the stronghold by dumb luck about 4 minutes into a manhunt by accidentally B-lining it with dolphin's grace, but actually getting there ready to enter is amazing.
I think the interesting thing about Minecraft speedrunning is, that its even possible to go like 5 minutes if you get a 1 in 100 million or something lucky seed, having everything next to each other and having the pearls just drop instantly
It's genuinely so upsetting for drip. I can't believe they rejected it just because of a illegal mod that literally does not fucking impact or change the gameplay at all, it's just to fix a crash. Now people are hating on the poor guy, saying that it's fake and cheated.
I can just imagine how heartbreaking it is to feel proud of yourself for beating the world record only to not be accepted because of that mod that clearly not used for cheating😢
I think the best solution is what's happening right now. To make a quick change to allow a run, a change that would impact any number of past runs that were labeled unverifiable, could be seen as favoritism by the mod team. The optics of that alone, no matter how untrue, arent good. BUT, I'd call the mod team wrong if they didnt listen to the community feedback and start polling to see if a rule change needs to be made. After all, the mods and rules are their to help keep things fair and better the community, so if the community has a good reason for calling for change, then serious thoughts need to be given to making change happen
This is a crazy decision. The mod team says it's fair because the same rule is applied for everybody, but clearly the rule is bad, so it is not fair in the first place, regardless of whether it is applied the same to everybody. When the law is bad, change the law, don't just apply it blindly without checking that it is legitimate. This run has to be verified, whatever the solution.
a good example of equality vs equity, too. "we apply this rule equally" but the rule only applies to those with low end computers, meaning someone with a better computer won't have the mod at all, so while the rule is applied in a way that's equal, it's not applied in a way that's equitable.
@@TheSoup222222 Indeed, very good spot, thank you for the comment. The law is the same for everybody (equality), but the application of the law is adapted to the situation (equity), which makes it fair.
16:20 This statement makes no sense: "...new horizons will never be an allowed mod." Why? How can this moderator say that with such certainty, especially when New Horizons is known to do nothing other than prevent a certain type of game crash? I genuinely can't fathom why the moderators wouldn't simply add New Horizons to the list of allowed mods.
Whats insane is the mod team have not allowed this mod that prevents crashes, didn't they say they will allow mods that improve performance so that everyone can play?
the crash fix mod was never submitted to be legalized, nor was it intended to be legalized when it was created, so it's not like the mod was rejected...
@@tildejustin but its widely known cause they have rejected past runs with this mod in it, it should have been automatically allowed as a QoL mod the first time it was detected.
@@santrichuumonster Previous world records in other categories had used other disallowed mods, not the same mod. The mod team was unaware of the existence of the mod Drip used.
@@DueySR Its said in the video that the mod was known already and it would be unfair for the players that had the mod and got rejected so they also rejected this run.
@@santrichuumonster The video doesn't say that. What I think you're referring to is the moderator statement which says that "several other world record runs (in other categories) have been unverifiable (aka rejected) for the same reason (using an unallowed mod to prevent crashes)." The unallowed mods that got other runs rejected were different mods. The mod that Drip used (called New Horizons) is a new mod, used by very few players, that the moderators did not know about. Drip's speedrun is the first known run to use the unallowed mod in question. Furthermore, had the moderators been aware of the mod, they would not have allowed it (like you say they should've for QoL reasons) but rather updated WorldPreview to implement the fix instead, as they try to keep the number of allowed mods as low as possible and not add extra unnecessary ones.
this whole time stops while pausing thing is still so ridiculous. The time is 7:14, that simple. The calculator for finding the stronghold too, it's basically the same as using the same seed and then looking for the optimal path for the world while having your speedrun simply paused
Unfortunately this kinda situation happens in athletic sports too, when an athlete takes a protein powder that contains a negligible (but testable) amount of a banned substance
As long as the mod in question can be verified as ONLY helping prevent crashes then it should be allowed and all runs that have used it in the past should go on the leaderboard. I understand the caution, as many people are not honest, but we should not punish honest people for fear they may be dishonest. Trust but verify. Thanks for the video.
the situation is a little more complicated than that, because we didn't know the cause of the bug that made the fix necessary in the first place, but yeah on further investigation it seems to be harmless. i think people get too hung up on the leaderboard and wr status, it is definitely wr, just that it is extraordinarily difficult to justify verifying under the current ruleset.
I think it's okay for the run not to be "Officially verified." Nobody needs a bunch of Rules, moderators, or lawyers to make their accomplishments significant. Drip's record will always be incredible regardless of whether the bureaucrats insist on following their rules.
Absolutely needs to be verified. Open source, few lines crash-fix mod is not a problem here. Add this fix to the allowed list, but also make a statement tightening things for the future to avoid retroactive rulings as much as possible, such as clearly outlining that "If you need a specific harmless mod added to the allow list in order to run the speedrun config, it must be submitted to the mods in advance and greenlit before the run is performed in the future"
seems a the best way to handle this is check the mod is fine to use by the mods then to retroactivily allow all runs using it. As if it is needed to stop crashes from a mod needed for WR runs, then the mods can't expect people not to use it to actually be able to play. Or to verify a different mod that solves the same issue. Either way this is the WR for multiple things and should least be shown at the top with an astrix as mod did confirm was harmless.
I think I saw in another video analyzing drip's run the reason the mod was not whitelisted was it was only downloaded by 6 people and the mods just didn't think of it. which makes sense
While i understand the discourse, drip was using an illegal mod with full understanding that his run would not be verified. I understand the annoyance of the people that want the run verified but i also understand the rule's team sticking to the stated rules and not making exceptions. It's a damned if they do, damned if they dont situation.
No, he accidentally clicked on his reset key so he went in another world, and without playing it he instantly went back to the old one. This caused a controversy because you aren’t allowed to play on another world, but SagiEnderman didn’t play on the world since he instantly went back to the old one
Slight video error, you mentioned that BT always spawns at 4 4 when I believe you meant 9 9. Also good to mention that he just saw the weirdly shaped gravel at the oceanside
It should be verified. Denying a wr because of an harmless mod sounds so elitist, especially knowning that mod was used to prevent crashes. What was he supposed to do? Not everyone can buy powerful computers to speedrun. Denying the run for this ridicolous reason makes the minecraft community look elitist. I hope they will change their minds, the run is absolute legit.
The moderators have a perfectly good reason for rejecting the run. It was really just the fair thing to do. Sure they could make an exception now, but then they would be forced to make exceptions in the future to several other runners who ‘accidentally’ used even less legit mods so they have to draw the line somewhere. Did drip even realize he had a mod that wasn’t verified? I think the lesson we can take away from this is that you should check what mods you have installed before speedrunning, and make a request to the moderators first if you think there should be a different mod allowed so there is never a situation like this again.
here’s a solution, allow the mod. tell anyone who was rejected to re submit their runs
yes, that's the only rational way to solve it. anyone could see the source code for the mod and state that it doesn't contribute to cheating
the people decide if its official not a few discord mods..@@kepler69c32
Thought the same thing, I mean resubmitting shouldn't be a problem, no? And like it doesn't seem like allowing the mod will be all that difficult.
That's what I'd do. Not manually re-verify all previous runs, but ask anyone with such an unverified run if they want to be re-verified
Yes! I Agree, The mod should be allowed! All it does is prevent your game from crashing, and it’s actually ridiculous that they declined the run just for that.
The controversy can easily be solved in 3 ways
1. Allow the mod
2. Patch world preview so it doesn’t crash
3. Make a new mod that is verifiable and achieves the same thing
2&3 dont solve the controversy, as :
2: patching world preview would make drips mod obsolete, but he still used a illegal mod
3: same as 2
2 was already done afaik
The mod used is open source and actually is verifiable, it just had not been verified yet.
I think a good course of action is this:
1. Allow the mod.
2. Then re-review this run and allow it given the new rules.
3. Have two flares on every run. One flare for if the run is still valid given updated rules, and a second flare for whether the run was valid given the rules when the run was submitted.
The third step is important because it still incentivizes runners to go out of their way to make sure they are following the speedrunning guidelines and not hoping the mods will bend the rules if they do achieve a WR. Runners would rather have an uncontested WR than one with a flare stating they did not follow the rules provided at the time. But, this policy would still allow the mods to allow obviously legitimate runs where the runner forgot to cross all their t's and dot all their i's.
Another positive benefit of this policy is that the mods can have their cake and eat it too: they can stay consistent to their policies while still allowing legit runners who did not follow guidelines to be on the leaderboard.
A final positive benefit of this policy is that old runs that used to be valid but no longer are would be specified as such. This would allow us to better compare old runs that used strategies/mods that are no longer allowed so we can compare apples to apples.
option two has been done
When illumina did it he was allowed to have the title, but drips was rejected
yep
It might have been because it was less competitive back then
If this part is true, this absolutely is just favoritism. It's an open-source mod, anyone can look at it. I can't fathom why "some are more equal than others" in this scenario. Drip won.
same with sagi
@@Sepi-chu_loves_moths thats when it was at its peak viewership tho his vid got like 4 million views
That’s like winning an Olympic event but you were disqualified for taking stroke medication
For real!
You’re right but the example is unfortunate because a popular illegal doping drug for many endurance athletes is actually a stroke treatment: EPO. 😂
I feel like a more amp example is by having a bandaid on
Why do I see u everywhere rt main
Carl main
Nerd
This run is the world record.
We know
7:45 is the only valid world record.
No, it used a prohibited mod. This sets a horrible example for others and I completely understand why the mods rejected the run.
The video says 27 minutes ago but your comment is 41 minutes ago how
@@malachiter228 it was first livestreamed he must have made the comment at the beginning
The minecraft speedrun mod team is ridiculous. So an external tool to find the exact position of the stronghold is allowed but something that prevents game crashes isn’t.
Iirc the argument for why calcs are allowed is that you can technically learn to do it by memory and calculations alone. What's stopping someone from pausing the game to do the calculation themselves lmao
I still find the calc existing an unfortunate thing mind you, but I can kinda stand by the decision when without the decision, it would be optimal to pause the game while doing the calc by yourself, and take however long you need to do so.
Well the problem isn't really that the mod isn't allowed, like it's understandable by the sheer amount of mods that exists, that not every technically legal mod is actually explicitly legalized.
The problem is that by the time of the run it wasn't legal to use the mod, thus by technicality this run broke the rule. Basically the mod team has to reject this run out of fairness and upholding the rule everyone has agreed to. The mod team also has to be super vigilant with any "world Record", take dreams run for example.
All in all this situation is unfortunate, but I think it shouldn't be too much of a problem, because it should be possible to make the use of this mod legal and than have the run be resubmitted.
It's a matter of rules and technicalities. The mod wasn't disruptive, but any mod not explicitly legalised is forbidden. So, per protocol, the run was rejected. Since it's the job of the team to uphold the rules, it's arguably the right move to do so. They gotta play by their own rules if they want to be taken seriously.
Now, they should probably just allow the mod so the run can be resubmitted, though.
@@hamdepaf6686iirc dreams controversial run wasn't world record it was like 6th place. It was only scrutinized because he is so popular
@@majormushu ah, misremembered.
this run was insane, i remember seeing it in my youtube recommended thinking it was troll because of how little time it had been since NoFear's run. But wow. This game is a crazy one and RSG WR will never not be unfathomably impressive
me too man, i had the exact same thought process as you but when i realized it was real i was going absolutely mental
@@vanilluhs well its not official wr so it doesnt count. Shouldnt have cheated with unverified mods bro. It is what it is
@@scoper7897 they allowed drips run to be submitted, are u slow?
@@scoper7897 anti crash aint cheating
@@IPrayToSappho it is.... according to RULES.....
The blue text at 16:43 is basically exactly what should be done. If a mod is used that is only for performance and quality of life, the speedrun should be allowed. Of course it should be heavily investigated but if the mod is harmless, there’s no reason it should stop a run from being verified. Imo the mod team definitely owes an apology to the people they’ve done this to, even if they didn’t necessarily want to do it.
the thing is you'd ahve to do this for every leaderboard submission, which just sounds impossible. you have to admit that the decision of the mod team to treat all runs the same is respectable, irrregardles if they wr or not
@@fojtchdid they treat everything the same? Since drip had a 9 before this (which i assume used the same mod) and wasn't that run on the leaderboards?
@@fojtch …which is why they should’ve done it sooner
if they were to do it now it’d be a huge undertaking for sure
This isn't feasible atm. The run verifiers already spend a lot of their own time verifying runs for no monetary compensation. The queue to get a 1.16 rsg run verified is about 4 months at the moment if my recently verified run is any good estimate. It's unfair to go up to people already doing a lot of work for the sake of the community out of kindness alone and tell them they also have to start investigating code and all of the interactions it has with the game to ensure it grants no unfair advantage. If you want a mod to be allowed, petition/argue for it, and get it approved. The work done in verification shouldn't go any further than a check to see if used mods match something that is allowed. The game's too hard to moderate already - there's no reason to just tack on more variables into the verification process when there just don't have to be.
🤐🧏♂
well, its not rejected anymore. its #1
YUP
And to think if he hadn't missed that pearl, if he got 1 blaze rod from the first 3 that he killed, if he hadn't went for that gold block, if his hands were a little faster at crafting, he would've been the first sub-7 runner ever, is crazy, extremely impressive nonetheless.
or that jump in the nether where he clipped on a block
The first sub 7 run ever that maybe isn't cheated is. A bedrock run
people have beaten bedrock in like 15 seconds, java isn't comparable since it has many less bugs than bedrock does@@nothingherezero7182
@@nothingherezero7182yeah but it's unverifiable
The thing about that is, they're very human mistakes. There will always be plenty of those to find in any speedrun, even if they are drastically reduced as people practice more. Any run without any human error would be a TAS. And since these happen in every run, it ends up coming down to luck to the same degree as saying "If only he had gotten all the blaze rods from the first few blazes", you could say this, but ultimately over time this averages out into the field of statistics rather than random luck or skill (unless you're Dream ofc /s). It's an inconsequential statement and it would be better to appreciate the massive skill required to get to this level rather than saying the 'if only' statement that Drip is probably feeling bad about already.
16:22 if they rejected the run because they care about other players and want to be fair to them, then i think they should listen if those same players are asking for this wr to be on the leaderboards
I think there should be an exception like with illumina when he had fabric api installed and it was still allowed since he was a trusted runner, it's hard not to drawcomparasons here
@@Arnav_was_takendrip was also live 😭, the mod is also open source
@@Arnav_was_takenthis mod is open source, so just like illumina’s case the moderators can see the code and know that it didn’t modify the game itself.
@@Arnav_was_taken Drips run was livestreamed... The mods are able to actually confirm that the mod doesn't hide anything because it's open sourced... It was because he's a trusted runner... The mods literally said themselves the mod that couldn't allow the run to be verified was harmless...
@@Arnav_was_takenyes it was lmao, they wouldn't have responded if he wasn't popular
@@blastburne7465 Technically not true, the source code is public, but the mod drip had might not have been that mod, it could be modified after the fact. A hash of the mod would have to be performed and compared against the compiled version to be certain it was truly the same mod.
The run can be valid in the future if the mod team allows the mod to be used, meaning this is going to wr or close to it in the futute
I hope they make that decision soon. Denying this run is a spit in the face to this community's collective effort over these past few years, and especially towards such an incredible run with such a harmless, open source mod installed for the sole sake of crash prevention. I've generally agreed with the mods in the past on their decisions, but keeping this run denied will severely dampen my trust in their judgement. We should not be punishing players for having poorer hardware when they're using provably fair mods to equalize the playing field - the last thing MC speedrunning needs is a fat paywall in the form of a beefy computer
They had plenty of time to reverse the decision and have not… so it probably won’t
@@zacharia4061 Discussions are actively happening, both between the mod team and within the community. We need to make it clear that this run is legitimate and belongs on the leaderboard, surely they will listen if the community desires it
they wont though. they just took the route of patching worldpreview
HI MEW!!!!
The history of Minecraft is all about unconventional underdogs. Let the record stand.
Here now
Also hello
Agreed!
The feature where you can find an endportal frame block in a chart probably is the best thing of this run, (to me) since It takes me like 30mins to find the end portal
This is the world record. No one can tell me differently.
best thing to do is extensively test the mod to make sure it definitely doesn't affect the gameplay then verify it. and then verify the run
what? the mod is few lines long, and it is opensource…
They literally said that the mod is harmless. The moderators themselves. The only reason they didn't verify the run is to set an example, lmfao.
@@orang9134 He used fabric api.
@@orang9134 it was fabricAPI apparently which is purely a library for other mods rather than a mod itself.
5:22 buried treasure spawns and 9 9, stronghold spawns at 4 4
Yeah i was little confused, bcs i know about the buried treasure 9 9, didnt know about the stronghold, thank mate
Yeah this should definitely be allowed. If all this mod does is make it so worse computers can perform at the same level as everyone else then I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be allowed, as all it does in broaden who is eligible to compete. In fact from a certain view disallowing it makes these world records pay to win in a way, since only the people with the best computers can do the most runs without fear of crashing and therefore have the best chance of winning.
This should very clearly be put on the leaderboard, and the mods can do it very easily. The "illegal mod" is just an optimizer for an existing allowed mod and the entire point of the allowed mods list is to allow optimized clients so lower end pcs don't hold back amazing runners.
Im pretty sure we all agree this should be the world record.
I feel like pretty much everyone agrees, just that it's not on the leaderboards over a technicality.
yes everyone does agree
100%
@@Przemko27Z So the leaderbord is wrong and can not be looked at as the cannon this is horrific.
@@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714 The leaderboard is *right under the rules of the leaderboard*. If the run breaks rules, it's not on the leaderboards, *that's how rules work*.
it may not be on the leaderboard, but that doesnt change the fact that this is the fastest rsg run ever. crazy run, huge ggs to drip.
It may not be official world record but everyone agrees that this is the new record lol
The good thing is that there is no official, if these mods decide it isnt valid we can just ignore them and maybe move on to another site.
It is the world record. And any organization that rejects it can not claim to have an official list.
The fact that there is still room for improvement here is insane.
For some reason the argument from the moderation team is false because many exceptions were made in different rules,for example sagi enderman who generated a seed (unintentionally) in the middle of his run.
I think a good course of action is this:
1. Allow the mod.
2. Then re-review this run and allow it given the new rules.
3. Have two flares on every run. One flare for if the run is still valid given updated rules, and a second flare for whether the run was valid given the rules when the run was submitted.
The third step is important because it still incentivizes runners to go out of their way to make sure they are following the speedrunning guidelines and not hoping the mods will bend the rules if they do achieve a WR. Runners would rather have an uncontested WR than one with a flare stating they did not follow the rules provided at the time. But, this policy would still allow the mods to allow obviously legitimate runs where the runner forgot to cross all their t's and dot all their i's.
Another positive benefit of this policy is that the mods can have their cake and eat it too: they can stay consistent to their policies while still allowing legit runners who did not follow guidelines to be on the leaderboard.
A final positive benefit of this policy is that old runs that used to be valid but no longer are would be specified as such. This would allow us to better compare old runs that used strategies/mods that are no longer allowed so we can compare apples to apples.
being a part of the community during this whole thing has been awesome, for past world records they would always come whenever i take a break from speedrunning and would only find ouy months later
actually so dumb that this run would get rejected for a mod like that. it's a performance mod like all the others. this run is so valid
Every time you guys have a lot to do, these are good times :) very happy to see another crazy wr so soon
its crazy to see that this could have been sub 7. if the crafting at the beggining was a little bit smoother and if the fumble to find the ignition for the last nether portal wasn't there it could have been a sub 7 run! its exciting to see that there is potential for faster runs even in an unfathomably fast speedrun.
No way I just joined the premiere and it's starting right now how cool is that
There's no reason why they can't just clear the mod, put it on the allowed list, and retroactively verify the run.
Can't wait for drip to beat it again tomorrow
If you got the world record, and you didn't cheat in the game, you got the world record. If exceptions have been made in the past, as people are saying, it seems insane for an *open-source* mod to have caused this barring from the leaderboard.
the best course of action is to allow that mod since its open source and be verified
It's on the leaderboards🔥
Speaking of world records. I know this run is a year old, but could you guys do a video on Feinbergs 2:45:05 all advancements speedrun. All advancements isn't as popular but the speedrunners there should also get some praise for doing such grueling runs.
2:45 isn't the world record anymore. Feinberg has a 2:27 now
@@zhewaxen3047 WHAT?!
amazing run. best world record ive seen
Congrats to drip for their WR!! Super impressive
I can't belive they thought saying that they rejected other runs for the same reason would make people less upset IM EVEN MORE UPSET BY THOSE OTHER RECORDS WHO NEVER GOT THE RECOGNITION THEY DESERVE
And it doesn't matter they're trying to be fair
being unfair to everyone doesn't mean you're being fair, it just means you're a poor moderation team@@nothingherezero7182
@@nothingherezero7182 Then why not walk up to those players and say
"Hey? Do you want this to be the new WR?"
@@nothingherezero7182 no, they're rationalizing being lazy. trying to be fair would be fixing the rules and taking the effort to retroactively apply it.
Yeah, like okay what reasoning did you give to the *first* person rejected for this? If that reasoning was good, then that's your real answer and you should say so; if that reasoning was bad, then the first person's run should not have been rejected in the first place and therefore you can't use their rejection as justification.
Glad to see it back n the leaderboard. Drip lets goooo
When drip gets a seed even better and gets a sub 7 just to spite them itll be the beat
Drip deserves to get on the leaderboard.
Bro entered the end like
“No tires, just gas!”
I can always count on the weeky thing for making my day better
Thank you for explaining all this. I had no idea how he did it 😅
It doesn’t really matter if his time isn’t added to the leaderboards, everyone will try and beat this time
The run IS on the leaderboards
My main question after watching this is how are half the mods runners use allowed? World preview and perfomance mods, I get that, but stuff like the stronghold calculator and mods that automatically put items of the same type into the hotbar? Idk about that
The calculator is just maths that they can do pausing the game so it changes nothing
the time stamp on this video covers the word "analysis" in a funny way
It's on the leaderboard now!!
This was an awesome run I hope it get accepted
At this rate world records might just be The Weekly thing
The rule should be changed to (something like) if you get a record or PB that you want verified and you’re using a mod that wasn’t specifically allowed then the run and mod are reviewed for verification and the mod becomes specifically legal if it’s not effecting the game/loot at all
drip has the world record (ALSO CAN WE TALK ABOUT HOW PERFECTLY TIMED THE BEAT DROP IS AT 14:35 WTF)
Making exceptions for rules that you've already applied to others can only delegitimize the boards. Their original decision was completely justifiable. Outrage and the specialness of the run are completely irrelevant.
they should approve the mod and all runs that use it. all it does is prevent the game from crashing
Well Drip is pretty deserved for this speedrun to be accepted officially, as he didn't use a mod that can side by side affect the overall gameplay, this was nothing except a performance booster mod which isn't supposedly be included in the list of cheat contributers. The moderators should be reconsidering this matter.
It's on the leaderboards already
To make these videos more immersive, they should start becoming speedruns to match the times of the runs
i don’t know if you have seen the channel tomatoanus but his videos are exactly like that! in depth explanation of the strata and tricks in a speedrun, voiceovered in real time to match the length of the run.
the fact is, regardless of whether the mod is allowed on the website - the next run needs to be a sub 7:01 for anyone in the community to call it a WR
the run is already been decided to be accepted by the mod team now, drip announced it in his twitter
Mods showed install the mod and check it to make sure that there’s no extra code to affect gameplay. If it truly is just a stability mod like it claimed then it should have no problems passing a test.
Its an open source mod, everyone can look into the code and see that it doesnt do anything else. The only reason the mods arent doing it is to "set an example".
Great vid man. I don’t even speed run but that's bs there at the end. It should totally count
I've never really touched Minecraft, but I have speedran Celeste (29:57 any%), Portal (17:01 INSLA), and Karlson (3:08 any%). I've also dabbled in Neon White, but haven't done many full-game runs. I think it's against the spirit of fairness for the Minecraft moderators to not verify a run just because the runner used a harmless quality of life mod. They know the mod can't be used to cheat, so there's no reason to reject runs for using it.
damn sub 30 any% is crazy congrats!
They have to be fair they rejected others runs for the same reason
@@nothingherezero7182 They should go back and un-reject them
@@kittenish7116 Yeah, it was tough. I think it's my proudest achievement so far.
Wow. That's probably the fastest end enter. I've seen people get to the stronghold by dumb luck about 4 minutes into a manhunt by accidentally B-lining it with dolphin's grace, but actually getting there ready to enter is amazing.
I think the interesting thing about Minecraft speedrunning is, that its even possible to go like 5 minutes if you get a 1 in 100 million or something lucky seed, having everything next to each other and having the pearls just drop instantly
It's genuinely so upsetting for drip. I can't believe they rejected it just because of a illegal mod that literally does not fucking impact or change the gameplay at all, it's just to fix a crash. Now people are hating on the poor guy, saying that it's fake and cheated.
I can just imagine how heartbreaking it is to feel proud of yourself for beating the world record only to not be accepted because of that mod that clearly not used for cheating😢
7:10 That beat made me feel like I was gonna get rickrolled for a sec its so similar bruh
haha you're right I can hear it
I think the best solution is what's happening right now. To make a quick change to allow a run, a change that would impact any number of past runs that were labeled unverifiable, could be seen as favoritism by the mod team. The optics of that alone, no matter how untrue, arent good. BUT, I'd call the mod team wrong if they didnt listen to the community feedback and start polling to see if a rule change needs to be made. After all, the mods and rules are their to help keep things fair and better the community, so if the community has a good reason for calling for change, then serious thoughts need to be given to making change happen
15:15 is where he explained the rejection reason
This is a crazy decision. The mod team says it's fair because the same rule is applied for everybody, but clearly the rule is bad, so it is not fair in the first place, regardless of whether it is applied the same to everybody. When the law is bad, change the law, don't just apply it blindly without checking that it is legitimate.
This run has to be verified, whatever the solution.
a good example of equality vs equity, too. "we apply this rule equally" but the rule only applies to those with low end computers, meaning someone with a better computer won't have the mod at all, so while the rule is applied in a way that's equal, it's not applied in a way that's equitable.
@@TheSoup222222 Indeed, very good spot, thank you for the comment.
The law is the same for everybody (equality), but the application of the law is adapted to the situation (equity), which makes it fair.
16:20 This statement makes no sense: "...new horizons will never be an allowed mod." Why? How can this moderator say that with such certainty, especially when New Horizons is known to do nothing other than prevent a certain type of game crash? I genuinely can't fathom why the moderators wouldn't simply add New Horizons to the list of allowed mods.
Whats insane is the mod team have not allowed this mod that prevents crashes, didn't they say they will allow mods that improve performance so that everyone can play?
the crash fix mod was never submitted to be legalized, nor was it intended to be legalized when it was created, so it's not like the mod was rejected...
@@tildejustin but its widely known cause they have rejected past runs with this mod in it, it should have been automatically allowed as a QoL mod the first time it was detected.
@@santrichuumonster Previous world records in other categories had used other disallowed mods, not the same mod. The mod team was unaware of the existence of the mod Drip used.
@@DueySR Its said in the video that the mod was known already and it would be unfair for the players that had the mod and got rejected so they also rejected this run.
@@santrichuumonster The video doesn't say that. What I think you're referring to is the moderator statement which says that "several other world record runs (in other categories) have been unverifiable (aka rejected) for the same reason (using an unallowed mod to prevent crashes)." The unallowed mods that got other runs rejected were different mods. The mod that Drip used (called New Horizons) is a new mod, used by very few players, that the moderators did not know about. Drip's speedrun is the first known run to use the unallowed mod in question. Furthermore, had the moderators been aware of the mod, they would not have allowed it (like you say they should've for QoL reasons) but rather updated WorldPreview to implement the fix instead, as they try to keep the number of allowed mods as low as possible and not add extra unnecessary ones.
this whole time stops while pausing thing is still so ridiculous. The time is 7:14, that simple. The calculator for finding the stronghold too, it's basically the same as using the same seed and then looking for the optimal path for the world while having your speedrun simply paused
Unfortunately this kinda situation happens in athletic sports too, when an athlete takes a protein powder that contains a negligible (but testable) amount of a banned substance
as long as he doesnt hire a harvard professor to say the mod is harmless, i say let him keep the WR
As long as the mod in question can be verified as ONLY helping prevent crashes then it should be allowed and all runs that have used it in the past should go on the leaderboard.
I understand the caution, as many people are not honest, but we should not punish honest people for fear they may be dishonest. Trust but verify.
Thanks for the video.
i hope they can reconsider
I looked into this mod out of curiosity, nothing in it gave Drip an unfair advantage. This is wr!
the situation is a little more complicated than that, because we didn't know the cause of the bug that made the fix necessary in the first place, but yeah on further investigation it seems to be harmless. i think people get too hung up on the leaderboard and wr status, it is definitely wr, just that it is extraordinarily difficult to justify verifying under the current ruleset.
@@tildejustin well, just allow the fkn mod and tell runners that whoever got rejected because of it may re submit
I dont care tbh in my books he's the world record holder
Yeah, this should be the wr
You forget the craziest most impressive part at 6:20 when he rearranges his hotbar using his offhand
i do that all the time in m runs
His speedrun is rightfully verified now!
I swear is doogile manages to get a 7:07 I'll cry 😭
I think it's okay for the run not to be "Officially verified." Nobody needs a bunch of Rules, moderators, or lawyers to make their accomplishments significant. Drip's record will always be incredible regardless of whether the bureaucrats insist on following their rules.
another instance of mods acting important and rejecting a run just because
Absolutely needs to be verified. Open source, few lines crash-fix mod is not a problem here.
Add this fix to the allowed list, but also make a statement tightening things for the future to avoid retroactive rulings as much as possible, such as clearly outlining that "If you need a specific harmless mod added to the allow list in order to run the speedrun config, it must be submitted to the mods in advance and greenlit before the run is performed in the future"
Beautiful video I loved it thanks you !
can people not petition to have the specific mod approved or reviewed like
seems a the best way to handle this is check the mod is fine to use by the mods then to retroactivily allow all runs using it. As if it is needed to stop crashes from a mod needed for WR runs, then the mods can't expect people not to use it to actually be able to play. Or to verify a different mod that solves the same issue. Either way this is the WR for multiple things and should least be shown at the top with an astrix as mod did confirm was harmless.
I think I saw in another video analyzing drip's run the reason the mod was not whitelisted was it was only downloaded by 6 people and the mods just didn't think of it. which makes sense
makes no sense as whitelisting it would be the first thought anyone would have thought to do as they’ve made those exceptions in the past
It’s sometimes amazing the amount of power it takes to go to peoples heads.
update: the run is getting verified
5:20 just to let you know, buried treasure spawns at the 9,9 coordinates and not 4,4. Great video still!
the length ui is put in a very unfortunate place in the thumbnail
While i understand the discourse, drip was using an illegal mod with full understanding that his run would not be verified. I understand the annoyance of the people that want the run verified but i also understand the rule's team sticking to the stated rules and not making exceptions. It's a damned if they do, damned if they dont situation.
The same thing happend with SagiEndermans run, and he didnt get rejected right?
No, he accidentally clicked on his reset key so he went in another world, and without playing it he instantly went back to the old one. This caused a controversy because you aren’t allowed to play on another world, but SagiEnderman didn’t play on the world since he instantly went back to the old one
@@ParisBrookline they both technically broke the rules that both did not impact gameplay, so they should both be verified
Slight video error, you mentioned that BT always spawns at 4 4 when I believe you meant 9 9. Also good to mention that he just saw the weirdly shaped gravel at the oceanside
I remember world records being 20 min when I was still playing Minecraft. Shit changes so fast
There's setting an example and then there's being stubborn. The team should've given a warning and nothing more.
It should be verified. Denying a wr because of an harmless mod sounds so elitist, especially knowning that mod was used to prevent crashes. What was he supposed to do? Not everyone can buy powerful computers to speedrun. Denying the run for this ridicolous reason makes the minecraft community look elitist. I hope they will change their minds, the run is absolute legit.
4:58 "roughly 1 in 100 chance for buried treasure in given beach biome" where did you get this statistic?????
The moderators have a perfectly good reason for rejecting the run. It was really just the fair thing to do. Sure they could make an exception now, but then they would be forced to make exceptions in the future to several other runners who ‘accidentally’ used even less legit mods so they have to draw the line somewhere.
Did drip even realize he had a mod that wasn’t verified?
I think the lesson we can take away from this is that you should check what mods you have installed before speedrunning, and make a request to the moderators first if you think there should be a different mod allowed so there is never a situation like this again.
tru