Table Tennis | Ping Pong [Must Know - How to maximize TOP SPIN and POWER on the loop] 탁구 강한 회전의 이해
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 เม.ย. 2021
- Apology at 2:54 for switched information. The closed angle is the initial contact angle and opened angle is the final contact angle.
While I am editing, sometimes I wonder if this much editing is necessary because I am not a professional video editor. It takes so much time just to edit 5min video....:(
I mean there are literally hundreds and thousands more that I want to share that will help everyone to improve faster...
But I still want to provide all the helpful tips to the viewers in the short video by making it compact and also help them visualize all the things that I want to talk about.
It takes sometimes and many hours and hours of training to really understand how to loop efficiently with strong top spin and power. And as I coach many people from beginners to advanced players, I often find beginners struggling with the loop technique.
And I still believe that they can learn it faster when they understand the mechanism even if they can't loop like pros.
So, if you really understand and try the self practice that is at the end of this video, you will not only understand but your body will also learn how the spin is created (how to loop). I am sorry for uploading the videos so late but I will try to be more diligent to upload more videos more often.
Thanks to all the people who are supporting!
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Very very good video. 👍
This was so funny. I showed your video to my coach and he's like "Oh yeah. That's exactly what you do" :D. So, I video recorded myself and it is true :(. I am thinking of a device to prevent me from turning my wrist.
Well, at least you know now! I still see so many people not knowing their own swing or they know it but they don’t want to change but want to improve which is impossible. Try to do the self practice one, it will help!!
Very helpful 👍
Great video and an excellent explanation! Keep up the good work!
Thank you for watching!!
OMG! Thanks TH-cam's algorithm for showing me this Chanel. I've never understood why my forehand stop improving, I started doing this little change and the difference is enormous
Thanks a lot, Hope you keep doing this amazing videos 🥳🥳
Thank you for watching!!! I hope it was helpful to you! If you understood and were able to apply this concept in your stroke then your loop quality will have potential to be as good as pros;)
wow!!! thanks for this video, great explanation!
Thank you for watching and always supporting me with comments! ;)
It's like you saw me play then dedicated this video to me 🥲. Thanks so much!
I'm such a swing 1, thanks for pointing that out. That frame on 2:54... I was waiting for it whole my life without even knowing. This is an amazing channle, thanks again, waiting for more content!
btw I emphesize every single word you wrote on the descrption
Thanks Daniel for ur informative videos...love from Bangladesh
Thank you for watching and supporting it!!
Thank you fro sharing coach Daniel, I have seen my friends have all 3 different kind of forehand loops. But my coach taught me the 3rd one and I stick with it. The problem was I have higher rotation than them because I always use high quality rubbers. ( from 15 years ago: Bryce FX, Donic F1, Tenergy 05, Evolution EL , Hurrican 350, 8 and others rubbers) but I still missing the power or speed. Lately I have been trying to use my legs and whole body. Still need to watch more of your videos haha
Thanks. I am a pen holder. My coach said one of the advantages of pen holding is when you loop, you can increase the quality by pressing the thumb when the ball contacting the rubber. She never explained why, and after a while of practicing this technique, I gave up this pressing the thumb. Now, with your video, I understand the reason. Pressing the thumb at the moment of ball contact is basically closing the paddle angle as in Loop 3 in your video. I am going work on this again, no giving up this time. Thanks!
Yes! You got it! Also you can use many parts of your body to make this swing trajectory as well!
Great channel thx a lot
Thank you for watching!!!
Dong feng! 점점 비디오 퀄이 좋아지네ㅋㅋ keep up the good work
승팽~~ ㅎㅎㅎ 그런가벼. 요즘 잘지내는것같아 보기좋아~!
My coach sent me this video 😂😂 I think he's getting tired of me not being able to correct my close to open swing. I'll do the exercises at the end and surprise him next time.
So glad I found your videos! I had no clue you were making them. I miss Pong Planet :)
:)) thanks!!! I started recently!
Lesson learned!
Thank you for watching!!!!
Very useful video
Thank you!!
I have been working with a coach for 2 years. My backhand is very good. I have a feeling and I am good at spinning. But my forehand doesn't have a good loop. He loses control and flies past the table. I didn't know how rubber works for a good topspin. My coach did not explain to me how rubber works. Maybe he doesn't know it either. Many thanks. I'll do it tomorrow. Your throw directly at the yellow ball surprised me. He had a good cycle and control. It amazed me. Many thanks!
There are few things that directly affects the quality of the ball and the swing form. 1.the angle of paddle 2. The trajectory of the swing 3. The contact point 4. The swing speed. Usually, if you are not getting enough spin or speed that you want or you think you should have then it’s about the speed at the contact point. But don’t force and think go all out and have a good ball. It’s always good idea to maximize the efficiency from the slow swing and slowly speed up with the feeling of “driving” the ball. And if you are losing control, then it has to do more with 1,2,3. But they are all related. Let me know if you have found the problem. I can help and tell you a simple self practice to fix these problems.
Road to Pro, hey! Thanks a lot for your efforts) Amazing video! Do i understand correctly that swing#3(cover the top arc) is the same as open to close swinging?
Yes
I'll try but truely I couldn't see much difference between 2 and 3, although I think that is pretty natural have some angle closing when the leg moviment is correct, there's a fast wrist movement after the contact and also finishing the forehand swing a little foward, but it doesn't seen natural to try to close the angle with arm movement, just because it will lift the elbow a little bit, making very hard to control the ball trajectory.
Thank you for sharing this video with us. It is very useful! Other TH-cam coaches have similar advice (JF calls it open to close). But my problem is: how do I know if I am doing 2 or 3? Without a coach I mean. Any advice?
Try to take a video of yourself from the side view! It will tell you everything!
Who is JF and what's his channel's name? Jun Feng? Thanks.
Life is simple, if I see a video from you, I know it's going to be good :]
One question Daniel, should we also apply this same concept do the backhand loop as well? To try to close it on contact if we want more topspin and power?
i think the same concept can be applied for BH, since it is about how to contact the ball.
Yes, apply the same concept. You will have so much power if you can do this. But slightly different how the angle is made right after the contact. Bh is more with wrist and forehand is position of the elbow and body rotation:)
@@nguyenanhquynh7322 yes you are right!!!
Hello Coach Daniel! Thank you for this very insightful video. I've played when I was in high school and I'm trying to get back to Table Tennis. I realize, my backhand spin and loop are a lot more natural for me, and despite a lot of effort, my forehand comes slower to me. After reviewing my training video, I realize I have a tendency to for the first swing. Would you be open to reviewing the video with me and sharing some of your notes? Thank you very much and I wish your channel all the best! Such awesome content! ☺
No problem.
Thank you very much, coach! Where may I share the training video with you? Really appreciate it ☺
@@johnpeterchua6148 somehow this comment slipped through my notifications. Upload it to youtube and send me the link!
great explanation ! coach why when attacking/topspin i miss the ball , it felt like there is a hole in my bat. do you think u can make video about it thanks !
Many causes. Partner spins caused the ball to curved down earlier. Solution is the stand closed to the table. Also, keep your racket open more. Timing. Catch the ball with the paddle , then apply the fore-ward force like throwing the ball back.
1:04 I dont understand how the mechanics of swing #3 works or how it is different from #2. Could you elaborate on this? edit: Nvm, I understand it now! #3 trajectory is like that because you accelerate into the ball with your waist and hip (sideways rotation) when your swing reaches the height of the ball.
Yeah that's right. I think it's less the changing of the angle during the contact (this is kind of impossible anyway), but more being able to accelerate forwards into the shot, which would have the same effect (squeeze the rubber/sponge into the direction that you're trying to spin it).
helpful video....would it be accurate to say swing 1 starts with paddle angle almost parallel to the floor [and compensates by opening the angle], swing 2 starts with paddle angel around 45 degrees and maintains it throughout the swing, and swing 3 starts
You are correct although there isn’t one right angle to swing. The swing trajectory may change depending on many other factors especially what kind of balls is coming and where you are. But in terms of the swing’s path, you are right! It’s always good to monitor yourself to see what’s causing the inefficiency on the strokes! I am glad that this could help!
@@roadtopro3038 hey Coach, one question, in regards to efficiency and swing no 3 trajectory, why dont pros do a swing that seems more effecient. What i mean is:
1) in backhand, why do most ppl start with closed paddle angle when starting swing, then do a open to close motion? For eg in your video comment on someones backhand, you can see he closes first, then opens then closes again (and then restart back to closed angle when bring paddle back to body)?
2) on forehand, i see a lot of pros warming up on youtube where they start with bringing the paddle close to the hip, then moving the hand slightly away from body, then completing the swing. For eg, in your 1 hr summary video, you talk abt start with paddle close to hip but when you demonstrate with the ball, you tend to start with paddle close to body, then move it back away from body then start the swing. (For eg at 1 min mark in your 1 hr summary video, in slow motion, you can see what im talking abt)
I hope my question makes sense. And your videos are clearer than anything else on youtube for real. Thanks again.
Thanks for the video. To keep things simple, so you have to open your paddle and close it as you hit to create the desired result? I tried that and my hit chance increased a lot. The contact sound is also much more cracking/loud (like chinese), and the contact is thicker.
Yes, that’s the whole point. When you do this way, it not only maximizes the potential of the rubber but also maximizes the engagement of the blade as well to make the energy transfer more efficient because it reaches deeper and that’s why it makes that cracking sound(from the blade). Plus, you have to swing more forward than upwards because it’s open so it will generate good power and spin at the same time.
Amazing how much difference there is by first opening and then closing as you hit.
@@MrDuynguyen123 you just unlocked the new skillset that can lead to pro quality techniques.;)
When I do topspin I lose a lot of strength, but my punches are not dangerous or they fly out. I think I lick the ball with rubber and there is no cracking.
@@gds1104 i see. Licking can give you some spin but it will lack the transfer of the energy and also sometimes hit the edge of the paddle as the angle of paddle is coming so shallow. Try to work on to increase the speed of the ball then the spin of the ball and have your swing work more forward then upward.
I can't what he is saying at 4:42..what is 45? All in all excellent and deep explanations.. Thanks, I will help me a lot
Sorry for the confusion, i was talking about the stance. The position if the feet are important when you do the self practice, so I was saying that the position of two feet should be about 45degree from the side line. I hope that clarifies:)
Hi from Brazil. Como se comportam as esponjas e borrachas duras para realizar o Top Spin com mais poder no loop? Me refiro à diferença entre as borrachas chinesas pegajosas e as borrachas europeias pouco pegajosas. Os movimentos corporais mudam?
Can’t copy and see the transaction, do you mind if you can just google translate?
@@roadtopro3038 let's go: Hi from Brazil. How do sponges and hard rubber behave to perform the Top Spin with more power in the loop? I am referring to the difference between sticky Chinese rubbers and less sticky European rubbers. Do body movements change?
Coach, I would to ask if we can use swing no.3 under heavy underspin ball. Thanks
All the forehand technique using topspin is recommended to use the third one for most efficiency.
I am learning English, so maybe my english it can't be very good.
I have a doubt and is, which is better? #2 or #3. I would like play like ma long or fan zhendong that have a strong and consistent forehand topspin. My supposition says that is the #3 because you say that is the swing that provides more spin and speed to the ball.
If you can do 3, the best
@@roadtopro3038 thank you :). I like your content.
@@roadtopro3038 This technique consists on closing the racket a little, immediately after hitting the ball, and also making like mini circles with the arm?
@@edson754 thank you
Tank you for teaching me
Thank you for watching!:)
coach can u put Indo subtitles for me , cause iam from Indonesia country , greet from Indo fans 🙏🙏🙏
I will try!
what about backhand?
Please add Indonesia translation
This is not true because the coming ball has different speed, spin and location. The power the ball gains depends not only how you swing the blande but the ball's current states. For example, when the coming ball has lower speed, you tends to use swing#1. If the ball has higher speed, you tends to use swing#3. This is due to relatve velocity.
Physical structure also need to consider. For backhand swing, people swing faster using swing#1.
Whether the ball is slow or fast, you need to do swing 2 or 3. And, yes if the ball is coming to you fast, it’s easier to use the ball’s energy and return the ball fast. But doesn’t necessarily change how you swing. If you end up doing swing 1 because the ball was slow, then you need to work on your footwork to fix that because your position and the starting angle of the paddle is not good. The concept on the backhand is same. The reason why people close when swinging back is to get more space to swing faster. But you still gotta catch the ball and try to close as you apply the force forward.
People should keep in mind try to swing as swing #1. When our leg add force to the body, the body is accelerate forwards. There are inertial resistant force pushing our arm backwards. To counter act this resistance, we try to swing as #1. But eventually, it will come out as #2 or #3.
@@zerozeronine5461 I don’t think that’s a good way especially for those who are starting out. People actually think they are doing 2 or 3 but most of them are doing #1 and they will fail to have consistent and powerful loop every time because they are opening up the paddle, slowing down and applying the force upwards instead of forward. And if you tell them that swing #1 is ok, they will never know how to fix their inconsistent loop…
I just try to explain the phenomenon only. In your own demonstration in swing#1, do you notice you are suppressing your swinging speed in order to demonstrate it? Why don't you swing at your maximum speed? This is because when you swing at maximum speed, you cannot demonstrate swing#1. When you rotate your body to swing your arm at maximum speed, there are centrifugal force. Your arm will swing upwards due to the centrifugal force. This force is very strong prevents you from demonstrating in the form as swing#1. You can only demonstrate swing#1 without rotating your body. If people rotate the body to swing their arms, it will naturally become swing#2 or swing#3. Those people swing in the form swing#1 because they don't rotate the body while swinging their arms only.
@@zerozeronine5461 this is not about swing speed though. Whether you swing slow or fast the concept to generate more power and spin efficiently, you still need to make a solid contact and close as you apply the force forward. Body rotation surely helps to prevent the swing one, but if you start out with the closed angle(facing floor), no matter how fast you swing you still gotta open as you contact the ball other wise either you hit the side of the paddle or cannot play the ball over the net. You can also still make the swing 2 and 3 without body rotation. This is about the angle of the paddle and trajectory of the swing.:) maximum swing speed is not important if you don’t have control. In fact it’s useless and meaningless without control. You work for nothing. So how do we control(swing soft) yet still give an efficient loop(both in the energy transfer and consistency)
voice too small . louder if possible
Sorry, I will try to make it louder next time. Someone else also told me it was hard to hear.
Lets agree to disagree. You are just Pitching your fantasy ideas to new players. Topspins completely depends on how fast you brush the ball, not what kind of arc you swing. In your video, swing one is very uncomfortable.You cannont use full force with swing one. But about Swing 2 and Swing 3, its both true and there is nothing wrong with swing 2. For your reference, Malong ( currently the best forehand player in the history of table tennis) uses swing 2. Power of Forehand topspins is created by how strong you explode(accelerate) during the ball contact. So you can improve your Forehand topspins by brushing the ball very fast (All top players use wrist to generate extra spins) and use the leg and hip. FOR THOSE who are reading my comment, you cannot really improve your spins by some fantasy swings. So stop watching and go Training. You will improve. Trust me. I am an engineer : )
Thanks for spending time and commenting “your” idea.
One, I am not talking about speed of the swing, I am talking about how swing trajectory and the change of the angle throughout the swing can help improve loops as it can add more spin and speed.
Two, you are contradicting yourself. You mention that the topspin completely depends on how fast you brush, not the swing. Then why wouldn’t swing 1 work? You know there are many people who do swing 1 and feel it’s more natural and comfortable. You should go tell them “just brush faster, and your loop will better!” I am sure they will love your coaching! Because there is nothing wrong with swing 1 according to your point.
Three, swing 2 is completely fine too. But why Ma Long becomes an example? Have you actually seen how he loops? You need to go watch his loops more:( And also watch Timo Boll, or FZD or anyone.
And not everyone can swing as fast as Ma Long. What kind of advice can you give when you lack the understanding of mechanism. Swing 3 squeezes the rubber more if you know what that means, mr. engineer.
Four, you say you are an engineer but you prove your point with 0 physics term… I don’t think “uncomfortable” explains anything about how things work…and why can’t you use full force on swing 1? Should be able to use swing 1 with full force if topspin “completely” depends on how fast you brush and the forms are irrelevant to topspin.
I enjoy discussing and am open to learn more because I may be wrong too. I would appreciate if you can explain more technically:)
@@roadtopro3038 Swing 1 is twisting your elbow upward. It is uncomfortable. If you think swing 1 can be used with full force, try to swing Full Force a Hundred times with heavy racket. You will hurt yourself.
2. As an engineering terms, if you twist your racket like swing 1, There will be more air resistance. So you will not achieve max speed.
In your video, you put A pro player training and your idea swing 3. You are pitching your idea like they are using swing 3. Its not actually happening. You are "Imagining".
Let me explain my "Idea".You are imagining swing 3 in pro player like Malong, FZD and Timo because they squeeze their wrist in every shot (using wrist to add extra spins). Moving wrist so fast during contact of the ball(the racket is moving forward faster), you imagine that this must be swing 3, They change the racket angle so the ball is spinning faster.
Of course, the racket angle will change because the wrist is used. But the ball has more spin not because of swing 3. It is because the impact is stronger.
Also do you think about the new players watching this video? They are using swing 2 and their forehand is slow so they will try to change swing 3. That will be a waste of time. In physics terms, the stronger the impact the more powerful the shot is. So how about telling new players that they should accelerate and explode during contact? (using wrist is not a good idea for begineer).
And also I never heard of that kind of explanation from Pro players and Pro Coachs talking about forehand topspins. That is your Unique Idea. Nobody said that before.
@@roadtopro3038 th-cam.com/video/REhG9hbnlxE/w-d-xo.html here is the Scientific explanation you are asking for. In this video, there is slowmo of Malong and FZD forehand topspins. I only see swing 2 + wrist movement which you will argue it is swing 3.
@@naywon6492 thank you for coming up with wrong physics… the one who said the swing form or the arc doesn’t matter is you….
And, why would you have a heavier racket and do a full swing? Control is so much more important. Power without control is nothing…And if swing 1 hurts anything it will be shoulder not elbow because you are turning shoulder not the elbow… you don’t rotate elbow to rotate elbow… you rotate shoulder to rotate the whole arm.
You say there is more air resistance but air resistance, by definition, describes the forces that are in opposition to the relative motion of an object as it passes through the air. These drag forces act opposite to the oncoming flow velocity, thus slowing the object down. Unlike other resistance forces, drag depends directly on velocity, since it is the component of the net aerodynamic force acting opposite to the direction of the movement.
What this means is that there is greater resistance when you swing faster. And this really doesn’t affect how you hit the ball. It’s so minimal that no one care about air resistance for swing…
If these are your reasons why swing arc doesn’t matter but only speed matter, I am disappointed to discuss… I hoped that you could enlighten some people…
And…. You say no one does swing 3… and they do swing 2 then Why the racket angle change when they use wrist? Even if they use the wrist shouldn’t the swing be still straight? Once you say they don’t change their swing then now you say that they change the angle…. Which one is correct?
By this point, you are contradicting yourself too much…
And please watch my wrist video as well! And comment on it.
@@roadtopro3038 You are just making things up and Imagining things so complicated. You are just trying to win an argument proves that I am right. Just use the damn wrist and your forehand topspin will be better. There is nothing wrong to admit that you are wrong. Your video is missing the main point of Powerful forehand topspins. Your videos is messing simple point to complicated one. Everyone makes mistake. I am not blaming you. I am done with this my friend. :)