+ArmageddonEvil Just what I was going to post too but you beat me to it. The fan design version in the video is even more Vorlon ship like too the texture is much like that one a Vorlon Ship, The White Star & a Shadow Vessel and shape wise it's even a little bit like the Ship in Crusade as it also has a large forward facing built-in main gun too. neatnik2009.wordpress.com/2010/10/16/babylon-5-crusade-1999/ babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/Vorlon_cruiser babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/White_Star_class
you did get to see inside the bio-ship In Scorpion Part 1, they showed the walled that was hit by a Borg disrupter beam and the drone that was been "Eaten".the ships were "Alive" and it only had a crew of one, info about the ships being alive and crew was used in "Star Trek - Armada 2" and on the EP
I totally buy into the fluidic space is not going to look anything like what we could imagine. So seeing aliens and ships from fluidic space looking different makes total sense.
If you've ever read about the Yuuzhan Vong from Star Wars, that will help you understand these ships. The major difference is that these ships function as one singular organism with various organs performing the needed functions while the Vong have ships with various organisms in symbiosis performing the various functions.
In star trek online there is a mission with Species 8472 and in it the bioship killed its pilot because Tuvok did a mind meld and convinced the bioship that joining forces is survival instead of war.
The ships are commonly written as being organic & they are grown similar to that of Wraith Hive Ships. As for the crew I'd imagine it is a crew of one similar to Gomtuu. It has one pilot who flies the ship telepathically.
Species 8472 are the vorlons as j michael straczynski has said for years that he had taken his ideas to cbs/paramount to make B5 and they in turn stole some of his best ideas and put then in star trek,(small sized whitestar/defiant docked at a starbase to fight the shadow's /dominion for example)we can know this is true because not once have either company even threatened to sue him for what he's repeatedly stated for 15-20 years. The shadow's are basically the borg,with a esoteric philosophy,as they use nano/organic tech to control and enhance other species,making them battle crab pilot's,cyborg technomage's,etc...and so transforming them on a huge scale to mass produce what they need,they are heavily dependent on others to achieve their military power. Species 8472 uses much smaller numbers of extremely powerful ships that they produce themselves,just like the vorlons,they don't NEED others to gain power.
The first time I saw this ship it scared me a little. The way it cut through a Borg cube with ease was....... I can't say frightening, but past shocking.
apparently 1 pilot, from Voyager episode and it is apparently a biological ship and maybe part of the one pilot? I suspect the center ship is a willing sacrifice when they form a combined beam death start thingy?
the ship must have some kind of processor controlling its automated functions. A federation ship has computers so this ship would have the equivalent. It could be that the ship if built from DNA building blocks rather than metal forms. Both the Shadows and Vorlons from Babylon 5 used organic molecules to build their ships. You still need to have sensors and processors. the big attraction of organic weapons is that they could repair themselves if not killed outright in the way that a ship built of metal could not. You could also store the entire plans for the ship in one cell.
I would say for comparison, this ship is like Moya from Farscape. Both are organic, and both probably can e run just by one person (Pilot) whom is linked directly into the ship. You don't need a large crew if your ship can heal itself, so a one man ship would make sense
I always related this ship to Moya from Farscape. On that show frequently in dialogue she is described as living metal despite the organic nature and visual aesthetic, which adds to its alienation from the norm of the viewer
-I see the Bioship as alive but not sentient. It's likely there is a pychic link between pilot and ship. -15:01 Definitely the same model as what was just shown. -The size of the Bioship is best measured by comparison to Voyager as Cubes have varied in size on screen since TNG.
Yep. I always got the impression that the 8472 ships were single occupant craft, with not much more internal space than was seen in that scene in the show (maybe a couple of compartments like that). Remembering, these creatures do not sleep, they probably don't need much space because the ship is like an extension of their own body, they probably communicate with it very efficiently using their telepathy on the conduits which Tuvok described as having neuro-synaptic potential.
Definite resemblance to the Vorlon ships from B5 - definitely covered by everyone before me :P Captain, if the first time you saw this ship you thought it looked like the Krenim timeship, then you were watching the episodes out of order ;) I loved that these could kick so much ass in Voyager though. They were a real threat and menace when they were first introduced.
Cant help but feel the designers watched a lot of babylon 5, as it does kind of look like the vorlon transport. Also fluidic space kind of looks like hyperspace from Babylon 5 as well hmm.....
Yes the ships are living creatures. You do get to see the interior in the first part of the episode "Scorpion Part 1" The tripedal creatures are a "owed to" referance to War of the Worlds as the invading Aliens with the three legs. Each ship had a crew of one.
the wings are part of its engines as far as i know and the middle ship in the noodle beam death star is a frigate thats pretty much designed just for that weapon, 8472 were unstoppable in armada 2, because it was one person per ship eventually when you got the battleship you could make maybe 4 or 5 times the quantity of ships, you could also make fields of torpedo and pulse turrets, with them, a one versus seven(of nine) on hard difficulty isnt that hard when your defenses are set up right
It's an A-10 of fluidic space. ;-) I don't think the BORG would want to assimilate one of those craft even if they could, being so alien it may cause mass insanity within the BORG collective?
love the videos guys..very informative and the commentary is excellent...have you done any videos on the Hirogen ships by any chance...thanks again for your time and effort with these vids
16:40, yep Samual. As someone who's been studying Ufology for 25 years, witnesses who say they met ET's, were told their technology is controlled by thought, and that their ships, using nano-biotechnology, are essentially alive. Also, in the 1980's War of the Worlds series, the Mortax, the creatures from both the series and the 1953 film, use thought as the way to control their ships.
There are some actually quite interesting hypotheses about why the bioship was built around a weapon. Consider that fluidic space, being comprised entirely of nutrients and organic matter, would have been densely populated with a wide array of diverse macroscopic and microscopic life competing over billions of years. It would be like the way life is on planet earth except far more extreme and on a realm-scale. To become the apex of biological evolution (in fluidic space), in order for Species 8472 to be perfectly adapted to such a widely hostile environment, they would have had to out-compete everything in fluidic space. Which means multiple wars fought in their realm and inside their bodies. Hence their suspiciousness, obsession with purity, as well as their deviousness and preoccupation with war.
The ship seems a bit odd. I would think that an alien species that existed in a place devoid of a vacuum would have no concept of reaction thrusters. I would also expect it to have control structures that are more finlike or fishlike. I would also have expected them to design their ships to handle crushing pressure over vacuum pressure. otherwise cool looking ship.
Seems to me that developing propulsion methods underwater would be easily converted to not being underwater by simply adjusting the energy output based on the friction factors, both for the engine and the surrounding space.
water methods simply use flipper based maneuvering. so you have a wing and a control surface that alters friction in the liquid allowing one to turn. in space this method would not work due to space being a vacuum. in space thrusters or reaction method works best but is inefficient in a liquid.
there isn't enough friction in deep space due to the lack of any air or liquid media. one way to look at it is by thinking about the planets and how long they have been orbiting the sun. looking at the size of the earth if there were enough friction in space to make rudders smaller than the earth effective. Then the earth itself would have lost all of it's speed due to friction and we would have fallen into the sun.
I somewhat disagree with Stuart and Cockings RE: not metal. I would like to point out organic steel, Biological Metal , and Metal based lifeforms exist. So , I would postulate that this is aging a kind of organic construct that has properties of metal or is metal like in nature.
Glad to see I'm not the only one that looked at that ship and said, "oh, Vorlons". Your thought that Voyager ship designers were being lazy is dead on, they stole this from Babylon 5. The odd thing is the aliens inside, species 8472, look alot like the nemesis of the Vorlons, Shadows. th-cam.com/video/mud408ThbLg/w-d-xo.html
You were talking about controling a ship with your mind at around 16:00 and how you wouldnt need a crew and how a ship is like a single warrior with 1 person controling the whole ship thru your mind. EvE Online is built completely around that idea. Each ship is essentially just 1 person or entity. Each human is in a tiny "pod" just big enough to hold them and you are suspended in a fluid within the pod. The pod is in itself a "spaceship". When you take control of a ship you fly your pod inside the ship and it connects to the ship letting your mind control the entire ship and all functions. I said Humans..... but really the people are not "human" anymore because we found a wormhole and colonized a different part of space and the wormhole collapsed trapping everyone in DEEP space and people settled and colonized several worlds and each world became a "race"..... then we lost the ability for spaceflight for thousands of years and each world developed by itself, then after thousands of years we "return" to the stars as we achieve spaceflight again and thats where "humans" are in this game. Anyway, if you havent tried it, download it and try it out...... it is a super indepth game Not only do you form groups (clans/guilds/fleets) but your "guild" can join a guild. Corporations (your guild) join together to make a larger "guild" thats all built into the game. When you talkin bout controling a ship with your mind..... made me think of EvE Online lol.
How is a three legged alien not Star Trek? I don't get that Facebook comment at all. The only reason most ST aliens are humanoid is because of the budgetry and special effects constraints of the Original Series, and to a lesser extent TNG. And even then, they still had a good whack at making up some non-humanoid species.
I don't think it was as the Gomtuu was alive where the 8472 ships were grown but had no consciousness. Also Gomtuu was from our dimension where species 8472 was from fluidic space, another realm.
Am I the only one to have noticed the overwhelming similarities between Species 8472 and the Shadows from Babylon 5? You are allowed to mention Babylon 5 on these commits - right? From the look of the creatures to their ships firing a single energy beam they are almost identical. Just want to give credit where credit is due. It is good thing that Mr. Starcaynski is not as lawsuit crazy as those who hold the Star Trek rights: it might have been a long day in court over this one.
I hate to comment because I want to change my stupid TH-cam name but; the middle ship of the Death Star-type formation is different if you watch the scene carefully.
Yeah you're right, that's just a stupid fan-fic thing. Besides, the Borg got started in like the 1400's by the Earth calendar. It's been roughly worked out using clues from Voyager episodes, mostly from eye witness testimony of the Vaadwaur species.
Star Trek actually stole this from MJS scripts he sent in before he got Greenlighted for B-5 years Later... he Sued Star Trek and won an undisclosed large amount of Money lol ,they ripped of DS-9 from him as well.
I see it more like a Vorlon Ship or Shadow Ship from B5. Since it is in the same vain as them since it is a Bioship and they only have 1 crew.
+ArmageddonEvil My thoughts too.
James Albright
Heh, its nice there's someone else that remembers Babylon 5. =P
+ArmageddonEvil I have to agree with you. Very Vorlon.
I too, was thinking Vorlon Tech.
+ArmageddonEvil Just what I was going to post too but you beat me to it.
The fan design version in the video is even more Vorlon ship like too the texture is much like that one a Vorlon Ship, The White Star & a Shadow Vessel and shape wise it's even a little bit like the Ship in Crusade as it also has a large forward facing built-in main gun too.
neatnik2009.wordpress.com/2010/10/16/babylon-5-crusade-1999/
babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/Vorlon_cruiser
babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/White_Star_class
Did you forget that they did see inside of ship and ship is partly alive.
They are extension of pilots.
you did get to see inside the bio-ship In Scorpion Part 1, they showed the walled that was hit by a Borg disrupter beam and the drone that was been "Eaten".the ships were "Alive" and it only had a crew of one, info about the ships being alive and crew was used in "Star Trek - Armada 2" and on the EP
Very interesting episode. Was always interested to now a bit more about this species.
Wow.. 8472 being involved Vger and the Borg... fascinating!!!
For inspiration. go check the Vorlon Ships, Kosh's ship in particular.
They weren't a species. they were just designed from DNA up to be a ship.
oh! Yeah! Looks just like Kosh's ship (still traumatized by his death, by the way).
It's as if an alien race made a starship version of the A-10 Thunderbolt. Big gun and engine and not much else.
Borg : We are the borg
Species 8472 : Fire a beam weapon at them
They remind of the Yuuzhan Vong which are a race from Star Wars that also use organic tech and believe they are superior to everyone else.
I totally buy into the fluidic space is not going to look anything like what we could imagine. So seeing aliens and ships from fluidic space looking different makes total sense.
If you've ever read about the Yuuzhan Vong from Star Wars, that will help you understand these ships. The major difference is that these ships function as one singular organism with various organs performing the needed functions while the Vong have ships with various organisms in symbiosis performing the various functions.
In star trek online there is a mission with Species 8472 and in it the bioship killed its pilot because Tuvok did a mind meld and convinced the bioship that joining forces is survival instead of war.
130 episodes... how time flies.
I just realized, it's a rehashed Vorlon ship. It even fires its weapon the same 'lightning bolt' way.
The ships are commonly written as being organic & they are grown similar to that of Wraith Hive Ships. As for the crew I'd imagine it is a crew of one similar to Gomtuu. It has one pilot who flies the ship telepathically.
There are only 8 bishops firing the megaweapon. unless you're being tortured by the obsidian order. then there are 9!
+surplusgavids I saw 5 lights....
8 supplying power, 9th firing the big beam.
8 ships on the outside. 9 including the one in the middle?
+Mark Atkinson I didn't realise there was 1 in the middle. isn't it a different larger ship?
There are FOUR lights!
Very alien & very cool design
Species 8472 are the vorlons as j michael straczynski has said for years that he had taken his ideas to cbs/paramount to make B5 and they in turn stole some of his best ideas and put then in star trek,(small sized whitestar/defiant docked at a starbase to fight the shadow's /dominion for example)we can know this is true because not once have either company even threatened to sue him for what he's repeatedly stated for 15-20 years.
The shadow's are basically the borg,with a esoteric philosophy,as they use nano/organic tech to control and enhance other species,making them battle crab pilot's,cyborg technomage's,etc...and so transforming them on a huge scale to mass produce what they need,they are heavily dependent on others to achieve their military power.
Species 8472 uses much smaller numbers of extremely powerful ships that they produce themselves,just like the vorlons,they don't NEED others to gain power.
The first time I saw this ship it scared me a little. The way it cut through a Borg cube with ease was....... I can't say frightening, but past shocking.
apparently 1 pilot, from Voyager episode and it is apparently a biological ship and maybe part of the one pilot?
I suspect the center ship is a willing sacrifice when they form a combined beam death start thingy?
Looks vorlon.
the ship must have some kind of processor controlling its automated functions. A federation ship has computers so this ship would have the equivalent.
It could be that the ship if built from DNA building blocks rather than metal forms.
Both the Shadows and Vorlons from Babylon 5 used organic molecules to build their ships. You still need to have sensors and processors. the big attraction of organic weapons is that they could repair themselves if not killed outright in the way that a ship built of metal could not. You could also store the entire plans for the ship in one cell.
The silver bits could be metal, a bit like horseshoes to protect specific impact points. Or like warhorse armor.
I would say for comparison, this ship is like Moya from Farscape. Both are organic, and both probably can e run just by one person (Pilot) whom is linked directly into the ship. You don't need a large crew if your ship can heal itself, so a one man ship would make sense
we did see the interior. a few times! the first time in the very first episode it appeared in!
of course you saw the interior!
I always related this ship to Moya from Farscape. On that show frequently in dialogue she is described as living metal despite the organic nature and visual aesthetic, which adds to its alienation from the norm of the viewer
-I see the Bioship as alive but not sentient. It's likely there is a pychic link between pilot and ship.
-15:01 Definitely the same model as what was just shown.
-The size of the Bioship is best measured by comparison to Voyager as Cubes have varied in size on screen since TNG.
There was a little bit of the inside in the first epiosde we see them
Yep. I always got the impression that the 8472 ships were single occupant craft, with not much more internal space than was seen in that scene in the show (maybe a couple of compartments like that).
Remembering, these creatures do not sleep, they probably don't need much space because the ship is like an extension of their own body, they probably communicate with it very efficiently using their telepathy on the conduits which Tuvok described as having neuro-synaptic potential.
Yea, i always thought the same
Definite resemblance to the Vorlon ships from B5 - definitely covered by everyone before me :P
Captain, if the first time you saw this ship you thought it looked like the Krenim timeship, then you were watching the episodes out of order ;) I loved that these could kick so much ass in Voyager though. They were a real threat and menace when they were first introduced.
This is a cool ship
Cant help but feel the designers watched a lot of babylon 5, as it does kind of look like the vorlon transport. Also fluidic space kind of looks like hyperspace from Babylon 5 as well hmm.....
+chris clark I'm sure they did. From what I can see, ST and B5 borrowed a lot from each other, which improved them both.
We did see the interior of the Species 8472 bioship in Scorpion pt 1.
Reminds me of the Nomad ships from Freelancer
Yes the ships are living creatures. You do get to see the interior in the first part of the episode "Scorpion Part 1" The tripedal creatures are a "owed to" referance to War of the Worlds as the invading Aliens with the three legs. Each ship had a crew of one.
the wings are part of its engines as far as i know and the middle ship in the noodle beam death star is a frigate thats pretty much designed just for that weapon, 8472 were unstoppable in armada 2, because it was one person per ship eventually when you got the battleship you could make maybe 4 or 5 times the quantity of ships, you could also make fields of torpedo and pulse turrets, with them, a one versus seven(of nine) on hard difficulty isnt that hard when your defenses are set up right
t3h51d3w1nd3r I couldn't beat them even on easy by myself. Had to team up with a friend.
A fleet of hundreds of these Bioships has enough firepower to defeat the evil Galactic Empire!
It's an A-10 of fluidic space. ;-)
I don't think the BORG would want to assimilate one of those craft even if they could, being so alien it may cause mass insanity within the BORG collective?
Looks like a Vorlon ship to me. we need Kash to fight the Borg.
my first thought was "that tiny fuck took on a Borg Vessel and Won!?"
YSou do get a look inside the bioship! In Scorpion Part 1!!
We seen the inside of the ship in Scorpion
it's a rather disturbing looking variant, but good the Special effects did an Organic starship when CGI curves were a nightmare
reminds me of a vorlon cruiser,,,linked to its pilot .
love the videos guys..very informative and the commentary is excellent...have you done any videos on the Hirogen ships by any chance...thanks again for your time and effort with these vids
Reminds me of a Vorlon Ship In Babalon 5
16:40, yep Samual. As someone who's been studying Ufology for 25 years, witnesses who say they met ET's, were told their technology is controlled by thought, and that their ships, using nano-biotechnology, are essentially alive.
Also, in the 1980's War of the Worlds series, the Mortax, the creatures from both the series and the 1953 film, use thought as the way to control their ships.
There are some actually quite interesting hypotheses about why the bioship was built around a weapon. Consider that fluidic space, being comprised entirely of nutrients and organic matter, would have been densely populated with a wide array of diverse macroscopic and microscopic life competing over billions of years. It would be like the way life is on planet earth except far more extreme and on a realm-scale.
To become the apex of biological evolution (in fluidic space), in order for Species 8472 to be perfectly adapted to such a widely hostile environment, they would have had to out-compete everything in fluidic space. Which means multiple wars fought in their realm and inside their bodies. Hence their suspiciousness, obsession with purity, as well as their deviousness and preoccupation with war.
it looks like the Excalibur from the B5 spinoff. especially when the ships combine power to destroy a cube.
I always thought the ship had a V'ger resemblance to them.
"The weak shall perish!"
The ships are made of the same material as 8472.
Don't they have cruiser class bio ship much bigger different design?
Design process: take Vorlon ship, put it in Star Trek. Go have a cheeseburger.
The ship seems a bit odd. I would think that an alien species that existed in a place devoid of a vacuum would have no concept of reaction thrusters. I would also expect it to have control structures that are more finlike or fishlike. I would also have expected them to design their ships to handle crushing pressure over vacuum pressure. otherwise cool looking ship.
Seems to me that developing propulsion methods underwater would be easily converted to not being underwater by simply adjusting the energy output based on the friction factors, both for the engine and the surrounding space.
water methods simply use flipper based maneuvering. so you have a wing and a control surface that alters friction in the liquid allowing one to turn. in space this method would not work due to space being a vacuum. in space thrusters or reaction method works best but is inefficient in a liquid.
there isn't enough friction in deep space due to the lack of any air or liquid media. one way to look at it is by thinking about the planets and how long they have been orbiting the sun. looking at the size of the earth if there were enough friction in space to make rudders smaller than the earth effective. Then the earth itself would have lost all of it's speed due to friction and we would have fallen into the sun.
I somewhat disagree with Stuart and Cockings RE: not metal. I would like to point out organic steel, Biological Metal , and Metal based lifeforms exist. So , I would postulate that this is aging a kind of organic construct that has properties of metal or is metal like in nature.
What size are they?
Glad to see I'm not the only one that looked at that ship and said, "oh, Vorlons". Your thought that Voyager ship designers were being lazy is dead on, they stole this from Babylon 5. The odd thing is the aliens inside, species 8472, look alot like the nemesis of the Vorlons, Shadows.
th-cam.com/video/mud408ThbLg/w-d-xo.html
You were talking about controling a ship with your mind at around 16:00 and how you wouldnt need a crew and how a ship is like a single warrior with 1 person controling the whole ship thru your mind.
EvE Online is built completely around that idea. Each ship is essentially just 1 person or entity. Each human is in a tiny "pod" just big enough to hold them and you are suspended in a fluid within the pod. The pod is in itself a "spaceship". When you take control of a ship you fly your pod inside the ship and it connects to the ship letting your mind control the entire ship and all functions. I said Humans..... but really the people are not "human" anymore because we found a wormhole and colonized a different part of space and the wormhole collapsed trapping everyone in DEEP space and people settled and colonized several worlds and each world became a "race"..... then we lost the ability for spaceflight for thousands of years and each world developed by itself, then after thousands of years we "return" to the stars as we achieve spaceflight again and thats where "humans" are in this game.
Anyway, if you havent tried it, download it and try it out...... it is a super indepth game Not only do you form groups (clans/guilds/fleets) but your "guild" can join a guild. Corporations (your guild) join together to make a larger "guild" thats all built into the game.
When you talkin bout controling a ship with your mind..... made me think of EvE Online lol.
How is a three legged alien not Star Trek? I don't get that Facebook comment at all. The only reason most ST aliens are humanoid is because of the budgetry and special effects constraints of the Original Series, and to a lesser extent TNG. And even then, they still had a good whack at making up some non-humanoid species.
Battlestar Galactica Cylon ship?
Wasn't the bioship from TNG: "Tin Man" a Species 8472 vessel?
I don't think it was as the Gomtuu was alive where the 8472 ships were grown but had no consciousness. Also Gomtuu was from our dimension where species 8472 was from fluidic space, another realm.
''aerodynamic for fluidic space'' ... how about Hydrodynamic? =D
Looks like a medieval torture pear.
I thought we call them the Undine now?
+Robert Hayes If you want...its not Canon but it is STO canon!
+power543 I doubt they'll ever give them another name so I expect that'll be their official name.
Klingon vorcha class and kardasian have big cannons
its the same ship wen they did the atack on the borg planet
Am I the only one to have noticed the overwhelming similarities between Species 8472 and the Shadows from Babylon 5? You are allowed to mention Babylon 5 on these commits - right? From the look of the creatures to their ships firing a single energy beam they are almost identical. Just want to give credit where credit is due. It is good thing that Mr. Starcaynski is not as lawsuit crazy as those who hold the Star Trek rights: it might have been a long day in court over this one.
I got Xenomorph from them.
Links like vorlon Tansport
I hate to comment because I want to change my stupid TH-cam name but; the middle ship of the Death Star-type formation is different if you watch the scene carefully.
+Bygone Gaming Yes that's true. The middle ship is bigger and it's "wings" seem to be nearer the front than these normal ships.
I think the relationship between the ship and the alien was more like a man and his horse the has instincts of its own but no inteligents
veg'r did not create the borg because it transcended reality!
Yeah you're right, that's just a stupid fan-fic thing. Besides, the Borg got started in like the 1400's by the Earth calendar. It's been roughly worked out using clues from Voyager episodes, mostly from eye witness testimony of the Vaadwaur species.
Philip Dunne, the prevailing thought is that V’ger was repaired and reprogrammed by the Borg.
It's a rip-off of the Vorlon Frigate.
Star Trek actually stole this from MJS scripts he sent in before he got Greenlighted for B-5 years Later... he Sued Star Trek and won an undisclosed large amount of Money lol ,they ripped of DS-9 from him as well.
How much can it rip off Babylon 5... a lot