I was looking it up and there are no good review on it. Usually, if a product has a lot of good review, then I would consider it. It does not mean it's good if it has a lot of good review but it is worth a look. DId you find any good reviews on the QX-2?
well not exactly. they just released like 2 months ago. the only review which is reasonable is in german. you might wanna check it out. they put my kef ls50 to leave is all i can say, because they sound better overall and i got the qx-2 for 381€ on release, even the qx-1 would have sufficed for the job to put my previous ls50 to shame. sound signaturewise: bold dynamic bass that rivals towerspeakers, extended relaxed highs, big natural soundstage, excellent price/performance. nice finish. only thing that is missing for me is vocal and trumpet/saxophone presentation that you get with kefs or q acoustics and here a smaller translated review translate.google.de/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.lite-magazin.de%2F2018%2F03%2Ftest-regallautsprecher-mission-qx-1-eleganz-und-stil-von-morgen-schon-heute%2F&edit-text=
Hello Thomas how does the kef ls 50 compare to the elac max spl reference volume wise?. I have a good front end, and will the kef ls50's sound good with rock, pop, reggae, using a subwoofer?.
Thomas, you made some excellent point comparisons. In fact, I've been arguing this with some diehard _'audiophiles'_ for over 30 years! This is what makes High End audio so subjective, too. I find that some reviewers are stuck in the same gear; and fail to appreciate the variety of new sounds and recordings. I love all sorts of music... a much wider range than anyone else I know; and because of this, I like an extremely versatile system; however, I don't believe in equalizers. They tend to distort the recorded music. Instead, I prefer a very neutral system, which provides an accurate reflection of what the artists recorded in the studio. This makes it difficult to find components and speakers, which allow me to reproduce a truly neutral reproduction of the source material. Some speakers, although they are more expensive, will colour the music unnecessarily. Often, this is because they should be matched with components that counter the warmth, or brightness that they reproduce. Another thing that creates issues with speaker reproduction is the environment... the room setup and layout. People never think of this, until it's too late. With bookshelf speakers, placement of the speak can be crucial. Too close to the wall for a rear-ported speaker; and the bass is all muddled. Too far... and the bass seems inadequate. How much to toe the speakers in... if at all! These are all things that people need to play around with, in order to tune their speakers in. The most important thing, though... is to get proper speaker cable. I think that braided cable offers the best sound; and people should really max out their cable to just beyond the limits of the speakers' capability. I've been using my Numen Model II bookshelf speakers, for over two decades; and I wouldn't trade them in for anything. Not at this point. Maybe, if I move to a place where the room configuration warrants more expensive speakers, but not now.
I have the DBR62. Even after i upgraded the crossover to shore up the treble dropoff, the DBR62 just can't touch the KEF in terms of treble detail or clarity. The KEF has better definition and resolve on top. The kef, however isn't my cup of Earl Grey. Something about concentric driver and cheap metal tweeter. Origami folding a tweeter like JBL did in the 80's does not smooth it out. The kef does have a bit of a metallic edge to the sound. The dynaudio makes a more sophisticated tweeter IMO. I prefer the dynaudio too- it's more of a natural and refined sound.
Loved ur review! Very detailed& honest!! Plz do as many as u can, and if u take requests, I would like to see more in th mod range with equal price 2 performance ratio. I think brand vs. brand is what sound consumers really want 2 see! Thanx again, I jus subscribed.
This is one of the most comprehensive and informative speaker reviews I have watched. Very well done. You have offered a good perspective of what is available to a wide range of listeners.
Hey Thomas, thanks for your video! I bought the Elac and Man what a great speaker! I compared the Elac with my Kef Q350 and it truly was hard for me to pick the better of the two. The Elac had better bass and the Kef had better highs. So for the money the Elac won. The kef is such a cheery bright performer...When i hook up my sub...watch out!! Anyone can create great performance with not a ton of money. Keep up your great work!!! Tube Amps forever!!!
This is a decision that needs to be made after you actually listen to them live in person. There are quite literally tens of millions of boxes with one inch dome tweeters in this world. Some are indeed demonstrably better sounding than others but it’s essentially the same technology. An awful lot of people who end up buying Klipsch speakers like the fun and dynamics that a Tractrix loaded tweeter puts into listening.
I liked this review even it was clearly emphasized that its just for fun. The review still become very objective in my view, when actual testing are being made and explore on positive and negative plus some hint to work around on some weaknesses, it helps. Thanks for sharing!
With the audio market as with any other market, price and quality are not expressed in a linear or even relative fashion. In all reality, enjoyment is far more important that quality, but unfortunately the public has been conditioned to believe that paying more will play a huge roll in their enjoyment. That's not to say a well sorted high end system doesn't sound better than a well sorted cheap system, only that one man's trash is another man's treasure. It's refreshing to hear an online "opinion" regarding audio equipment that respects the intelligence of their audience and recognizes their own subjective taste. In the ego driven smoke and mirrors world of audiophile fantasy, it's hard to find an honest and informative explanation of things like how the front end effects the sound quality of a speaker. I must say, I'm sick of massive generalizations that rationalize up-selling in order to get quality sound. One of the most ridiculous things I've heard is that you should spend at least 3X the cost of your stereo system's front end on your speakers. Thank you Thomas for demystifying and myth busting some of these assumptions. GREAT comparison in all respects.
Can anybody list off a few speaker companies that sell directly to the public, Thomas mentioned cutting out the middleman (store) you get more for your money.
@@ThomasAndStereo Have you had a chance to make a video, explaining your exact listening process from Series of tests to music choices ? I'm sure your listeners would enjoy this.
I listened to hi end audio in a very good audio store. Sonos Faber, Spendor, PMC, Dynaudio.... all with expensive amps. When I came home I didn’t feel something missing with my ls50 and MJ Acoustics sub. The Kef combined with a good amp can compete with much more expensive speakers.
The LS50s won't sound very good with the stand top overhanging (especially that much) the speaker. I finally got my LS50s set up where I can really turn up the volume and they sound great. The LS50s like rock solid sand filled stands, high pass filter on my amp set at 40 hz, at least the partial port plugs in and room to breath (2 feet off the wall). I first thought the LS50s were too bright for me, but now they roll off smoother in the highs (yet more extended and detailed) than any of my soft dome tweeters speakers.
Thanks so much for making this video Thomas. I'm on a quest to find the best affordable combo for stereo and surround sound/tv speakers. I'm currently running a Yamaha RX-V681 with an Oppo UHD-203 disc player and a pair of Paradigm 9seMkII and a Paradigm center channel and 10" Paradigm powered sub. It's great, but I need height speakers for a ATMOS set up. Can my system use more power? It's been said that my Paradigm 9se Mk II's need lots of power. I've never felt this new Yamaha matched my old RX-V 850 with high current amps ability, but the old 850 blew a channel after 31 years! lol.... Thanks again for your video!
On paper, you should have enough as it is a very standard setup. If you don't feel enough, you can by a separate amp just for the 2 stereo channel assuming your receiver has the output. That way, you get better sound and you solve the power issue. Just incase you are not aware you can do that, read up on it. Glad you enjoy my video, much appreciated.
underrated video review...especially with the associated sound demos...this definitely helps the novices like myself interpret the impacts of "synergy" across systems....
I was looking into getting the Elacs as my first Stereo setup. I think your overall classification and viewpoints on real world ideas as well as audiophile ideas. It just makes sense to me to get something good for only $279. I doubt ill ever go much higher than that. These seems to be a great option for me. I have also been looking at the Polk Signature series, what is your view on those relative to the Elacs?
In my opinion Polk is good bang for the buck the signature series is vary attractive ive not heard them in person but I have no doubt they'd be a satisfying purchase. My first stereo setup was a Polk setup consisting of a pair of TSX 220bs, a 250c, and a polk PSW111 sub ran through a Denon E300...brought it all online without any listening test and enjoyed it a lot and planned to use them for much longer but when the KEF Q series we're on final clearance sales I took a chance and brought a couple sets of Q100s and stored one of the Q100s and use the other 3 as my 3 front channel speakers and then of course had to upgrade my sub to match the KEFS quality so paired them with a SVS SB1000 and its an amazing setup which I plan to only ever upgrade with higher end KEF speakers so I can move my Q100s to the rear channel surrounds. in my opinion look for sales on higher end speakers,... high end bookself speakers + high end sub is better then a mid low end towers or bookself speaker with or without a mid-low end sub and unless you have a really large room and no concerns of noise pollution then towers are usually a must have espacially if you plan on buying a good sub anyways then towers are less of a priority. overall I dont think you can go wrong with either the ELACS or Polk signatures series through i'd personally lean towards ELAC since there brand is a bit more well known for high end quality speakers at a friendly price range whereas Polk you really have to step up to there top of the line speakers before you could ever truly compete with the lower end KEF and ELAC speakers but bang for you buck you can build a vary nice home theatre at a vary affordable price with polk speakers but if your a true audiophile type of person then your 90% likely to want to eventually upgrade to something higher end then polks but for many people polks are just enough there surely better then a soundbar and before i experienced something better such as my kefs I truly thought you couldnt get much better then polks....all in all for a beginning setup polks are perfect and might be all you ever want and need, but for true sound junkies there not vary respected and there really just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the speakers available on the market today but there one of the most recognizable brands and flood the market everywhere.... other brands you have to dig and search for to obtain but in the end its always worth it going withover the standard off the self big box store brand speakers with polk has become over the years.
Thanks again for a great comparison video! thank you for your style, "spelling it right out" and, "speaking between the lines for us", as to for us having to "read btw the lines" ourselves! Very refreshing. Each speaker does bring so much of its own flavour to the sound, it's very hard to pick just one (even if the wife said so)! I have 5 pairs now and, the Harbeth P3ESRs is my "daily driver". It's a nice all-rounder that excels on vocals or speech. My others speakers vary on abilities such as soundstage (Magepans), efficiency/SPL (Audio Note) or, different iterations on my "daily driver" theme (Rogers LS3/5a, Toku & Gawa 3" full range)...... Lastly, I liked what you said about the Elacs that they may not be the most sophisticated but it's a lot of fun to listen to. Don't stop having fun! Thumbs Up!
Thanks Simon. I like the Harbeth and was really impressed with the vocals. I actually did make a video on the P3ESR a while ago and hopefully, one day I get to try a pair of Rogers LS3. Like you have a few speakers and all have it's strength. It's hard to have one speaker that does it all. Thanks for the comment.
I went to a high end HiFi store yesterday to check out the Klipsch RP-600M speakers, they didn’t have any in stock, but the salesman highly suggested the Dynaudio Emit 20 bookshelf speakers over the Klipsch. I haven’t heard them yet, but they are a few hundred dollars cheaper than the Klipsch speakers, and are very well made. The salesman said the Dynaudio Emit’s are much less fatiguing and easy on the ears than the Klipsch too! Looks like I have another speaker on my list! 🙂
Sure, give the Emit 20 a try. Its true that the klipsch can be less fatiguing but people who look for klipsch are looking for something different that the EMT cannot give. It's different and it's a question of taste.
Very nice review. And it makes sense! I've heard the LS50s and a Dynaudio bookshelf model in Japan (a while back) but I don't remember the model! The Dynaudios can sound very nice depending on what is attached to them. They can also sound bright with the wrong equipment. I've always seen Dynaudio as a next level speaker for those of us at the bottom of the audio food chain! I doubt I would ever purchase a KEF. Actually, I have some VINTAGE KEF I like a lot better because they are warmer and use a soft dome! As, I mentioned, I have a pair of the Elacs and am finding that amplification is an IMPORTANT factor with them. You can't just hook them up to whatever. They'll sound OK, but they won't wow! This is particularly true concerning their dynamics and bass performance. They just don't sound that dynamic and the bass is less weighty on an average amp of lower power. Eventually I'll hook them up to my tube integrated and see what they sound like. I expect, tubes might be good with these?
I am not an expert on tubes by any means. I just know what I like to hear. I had an interesting experience when I was on sabbatical in Beijing for a year. I had the chance to visit a couple of Chinese tube manufacturers in the central and southern areas. And was allowed to hear some of their best mono-blocks and pres along with their CD tube players on a pair of vintage, MONSTER sized Tannoys! I really don't remember the model. But they were HUGE! And, boy, the dynamic sound that came from them was nothing short of amazing! Plenty of low end, nice smooth highs, good sound stage, and fantastic dynamics. Orchestras filled the demo room with sound! I believe the system was pushing 150 watts per mono block into each Tannoy. And a 150 watts of continuous RMS tube power is something to behold! I can only imagine what a Hi-End tube manufacturer's gear sounds like! I can't afford it, of course! A lot of the better Chinese manufacturers: Shuguang, Jolida, YaQin, etc. With perhaps Shuguang at the top? Use, I believe, German windings on their transformers, as well as German and other European designs to emulate in their own products. Hence, pretty decent, affordable value for those of us down stream. (To be honest, I'm not sure if Shuguang is still making gear, they are the major manufacturer of Chinese tubes). Of course, if you have the money and can step up some there are many options out there. An affordable step up would be Prima Luna gear, bang for your buck. But a little too much for me! And, of course, vintage McIntosh tube gear is wonderful if up to spec! KEF 105s, those are nice. Never heard them. A bit big for my office! Also not that easy to find! I've had the Reference Model 104s with the race-track passive radiator, and a lesser pair of Coda III bookshelves that were very smooth and musical, non-fatiguing, but lacked low end! The 104s had more, of course!
I find these chinese product not bad, I had the Yaqin 10T integrated amp at one point and got it for about $400cdn used. Very good for the price. My friend has the prima luna and I am actually going to bring over the Elac and KEF to try them on the Prima luna, Most likely I will make a video on it. One of my friend has the Audio Research VT200, it generates 200W RMS and uses 26 tubes! That is one reason I moved away from tubes, so expensive when need its time to change the tubes!
Thomas & Stereo I own the R500's, in my opinion they are really really good speakers. Very clean and powerful bass. I highly recommend them, feed them good power though.
R300 seems to be a highly underrated speaker. I never understood why is that and why LS50 is such a hype. In almost any regard, the R300 is a better choice.
@@kaymanul Because the r300 a have a lot of bass and is more detailed, but in the same time can be more bright and the bass is too much for somes songs... Need (like ls50) a ideal setup. For rocks lover is better, for jazz no way in my opinion
Hi Thomas. Wished I’ve seen this video a few months earlier. Stumbled upon your channel after watching hundreds of vids for my research. One can’t go wrong with what you showcased. What do you recommend to drive the ELAC speakers to 80% or 90%, considering your high end gear drives them to max? Budget is USD 2000.
Thanks! At $2k USD, you can choose anything at it will drive it to 100% Having said that, it would be an unbalance system which the frontend taking 80% of the system budget.
Hi Thomas, really enjoy your videos, learning a lot. In doing these comparisons have you ever tried the Apple HomePod speakers paired in stereo? There seems to be mixed opinions on them and I have found some people saying they sounded better then the LS50's. I'm currently looking at a more budget option and when adding up something like the Elac, amp and source you quickly pass the price of the two HomePods. In my particular case I'm very interested in the built in DSP provided it sounds natural as I don't have a great sounding room and can't treat it, but am looking for a musical experience. I would appreciate your insight/ thoughts on achieving musical sound though some DSP trickery when room acoustics are not ideal (ie. you mentioned you found an improvement in the LS50 wireless when the room corrections were on). Appreciate your time.
No I have not tried apple home pod. I understand DSP is great but it cannot replace a good pair of speakers. Although I never heard apple home pod, my understanding is that it;s strength is convenience as priority. Everything is a question of budget, based on budget, you can then look at what is available for you. For sure, dsp is not everything, you don't need much to 'treat' a room. Treating room is important but it all depends what level of listening you want to get into. Don't over think it.
@@Blake_Painter Why use "idiot" word? I have the LS50 and a top end sansui alpha or a yamaha as2000 is very bright in my setup, I have better results with a CXA80 which is a bit relaxed in top and have a nice punch, is a nice combo
I'm glad that you mentioned briefly the effects of the front end on speaker sound. I have heard speakers that sounded very bright and harsh with solid state which sounded fabulous with tube amplification. This is not just imagination but quite real and obvious when doing critical side by side comparisons.
The times I've trialed the Elac Debut 6.2 I've found they have a thick and sometimes boomy bass (not accurate for me). I wish you would demo the Canton GLE 436.2 or 426.2 because these are their entry level pedestal mount speakers, and both sell under $1000. I've found this line has enough of their high end technology to make the term entry level a misnomer.
Hi Thomas, You should try the tekton design Impact monitor, or double impact tower. This could be a situation where a $3000 dollar speaker can beat a $10000 dollar speaker. Several reviewers have changed from 18-30k speakers to the double impact.
I would love to and heard so many good things about it too. I find the design very interesting but they don't sell it in Canada so people who import them end up selling them close to the price new, that is like $4k cdn :( I am waiting patiently for one to come up.
I just wanted to say I appreciate and enjoy all your videos. I have an Onkyo rz820, not high-end but good enough I'm struggling to find the perfect speakers. For basement man cave , I buy ,then don't like then sell , and repeat. Would I be disappointed with elac? Or the kef? Or klipsch 600? And please let me know when you have a garage sale 😁
Lol. Look, all those 3 speakers have been well reviewed so you know they are very good for their category. Category meaning , kef with hard dome, Rp600m with horn and elac with soft dome. So performance is not in question, just is it to your taste that is the question and sadly, only you can answer that after you try it at your place.
@@ThomasAndStereo Since you're not trying to sell me anything I trust your opinion you are the audio Jedi. Since my receiver is considered bright, would purchasing speakers that are mid-range dominant counteract the brightness of the AVR? Reven purchasing a good quality preamp to counteract the brightness of my current AVR?
@Thomas&Stereo Thank you for your review. I downgraded from my LS50W to the Debut 6.2, but I am not quite liking it. I have the feeling that the soundstage is less "defined" for the Elac, and what really drives me crazy, I imagine most vocals/center music a bit to the left - even in your sound demo listening with headphones (which is weirding me out, am I that biased?)! How would you compare the soundstage between the Elac and the KEF?
That is a major downgrade. The LS50w is already significantly better than the LS50. The soundstage? I don't really remember, meaning nothing really stands out that I hit me. I have to do a comparison buy my KEF are at my friend's place. What about you, how would you compare the both soundstage?
Sorry for my late reply. My main issue with the Elac soundstage is, that it depends heavily on where you are: as soon as I move out of the imaginary center the closest speaker seems to be the more dominant one for e.g. vocals. This is not really surprising, but the sweetspot is (in my room) very very narrow. As far as I can remember, the LS50 were more forgiving if one sits off-center. This is especially worrying me as the speakers double as TV Speakers.
Thomas, how have you been doing, great prospective. I liked what you said about the ls50's because I did own them at one point and had to return them because I couldn't get them to sound right in my current space, so I'm sticking with the Vandersteens for now, but they were extremely bright, and you are right, they benefit from a good sub. I currently have a pair of last years version of the elacs that you are reviewing and they are good for what they are and had more bass than the ls50, but didn't sound as good overall.. The Dyna Audios, I have never owned. Im however currently breaking in a new cartridge, a Hana Eh as I type and it is quite good for its price and punches well above its weight. In another room, I'm burning in a pair of Audioquest Night Owl Carbons through my Simaudio 230hd. Good luck man and keep up the good work.
Hey Sid, so good to hear from you again. Yes, I remember you had the ls50 and it did not work for you. Btw, I finally did the video on the AR ref 40 and I had the unit open just for you, check it out and the music clip too. th-cam.com/video/VedRT3dCDnk/w-d-xo.html
Hi Thomas, Even though I'm sure they're excellent VFM sonically I just can't get over the Elac's very uninspired looks. FWIW I would have liked to see the Totem Sky in this lineup. Thanks
Buy the Elac's, the differences are not worth the the extra money. Its not realistic to expect a person with a $10,000 amplifier to match them to the $550 Elac's. And i certainly wouldnt match a $10000 amp with small bookshelfs.
FORGET ALL THIS BS. IT IS ACTUALLY THE QUALITY AND "QUALITIES" OF THE CD THAT HAVE THE MOST TO DO WITH REALISM, IMAGING, FREQUENCY RANGES, CLARITY, ETC..ETC.THEN PUT INTO YOUR SYSTEM A DECENT "HOME THEATER" SUBWOOFER IF YOU LIKE LOTS OF BASS OR WANT TO HEAR THE ORCHESTRAL BASS VIOLINS LIKE ME. THEN SAVE TONS OF MONEY...AND...AND "ENJOY THE MUSIC"!!!
Hi Thomas, great video. I also got good results with the iTube2 in the chain with LS50’s, though for me the bass was still clean with just a +6db boost and overall still balanced, but became way too much with +12db. Looking forward to your review of the iTube, it’s an interesting little device, probably not for everyone or every system, but definitely makes a difference to those who want to tame a system that is a little lean and bright, something for the price that is worth trying before swapping out other more expensive components. Added a good dose of presence and solidity in the system I had it set up with.
I think that 3D setting will be very speaker dependent and more useful for nearfield use. I didn’t find it made much difference to the soundstage with the LS50’s, maybe it’s because they already have a very wide dispersion. But it does something like boosting the higher frequencies making a little bit more airy at the expense of balance, but I’m not sure if it is better or worse. A lot of it comes down to the recording
i was in a very nice retail environment demoing amps last weekend and there was a pair of trade in ls50 sitting there and i decided to ask for fun to demo them on a few of the amps we were trying we did and a smile lit up my face(they are absolute total garbage stay away stay far far away, ) the modern sub 1000 dollar bookshelf is a cash grab , elac can be passable still not good and at least the dynadio will be natural but dear god run fast and far from the ls50, this was my 3 or 4th experience iv only had a bad taste in my mouth, ppl dont belive the hype you can do much better dont sell your self short dont support by buying future landfill (i was listinign to the big mf nuvista and a bryston and marklevinson)
To your taste is correct. Everyone been raving about the ELAC but I auditioned them 3 times with different amplification with high expectation. They sound very muddy to me. Way too much bass and not enough clarity for my taste
Nice comparison of these speakers and some great insights, Thomas...I noticed you really like "I'll Be Loving You Forever"...at the 3:18 mark...I believe you used it in at least one of your other videos...it's a great song...I should probably upload a vinyl rip for you, lol.
Nice one Thomas. I really enjoy your reviews. The KEF LS50 is a great speaker for many, but they didn't work for me, it was way to forward. Never listened to the 160, but i enjoyed the earlier version focus 140. I just took delivery of Dynaudio s 1.4 today, and it's by far my favourite speaker i've heard. I know you had the contour 5.4 before but sold, but i can't remember if you have listened to the C1 (or larger)? Personally of the Elac, KEF and 160, i love the finish most on the 160.
Yup, those speaker are not for everyone. You know I am driving it right now as I type with the Mcintosh MC452 with Pathos Logos turbe preamp front end and it's 0% harsh...the mc452 is incredible. Congrats on the S1.4, it's really in my opinion for sophisticated audiophiles. I never heard the C1 and C4 are my dream speakers (although I never heard it before). The reason is because my friend who owns the $300k system told me those speaker left an impression on him and only 3 to 5 speakers left an impression on him in his life.
LS50 with mcintosh sounds like an incredible combo! It's interesting you like the Elac so much. Never listened to them, but at the price they're cheap enough that people who are not into hifi could buy them and get a taste of good music. Will keep my eye out for elacs!
I had the KEF LS50W actives for 2 months. Loved them on modern, well-mastered music. But kind of unforgiving for my crappier recordings, which still encompass songs and music I love. I prefer the smoother presentation of tubes and/or PSB speakers. I tried a lot of things with DSP via Roon, couldn’t get them to where I liked it, so I returned. But my experience tells me the KEFs sit in between the PSBs (sweet & smooth to me) and B&Ws, which I find very brash. So those of you who seek higher detail without becoming overly brash, LS50Ws might be for you. (I probably should have tried the iFi tube buffer!). Hope this helps!
Hi, nice video! I see you have a lot of experience with sound. I have at the moment Fatman Tube amp just 15 w, IFI NANO AMP and Denon 7200 headphone. Witch Speakers will go ok with my set up. I like Klipsch sound, may be KEF lsx very small. Thanks advance.
Hi Thomas. Firstly, you have, what I perceive, the most pleasant personality. With that said, I really like your reviews: they are plain spoken and very informative. I am in the process of purchasing new floor speakers. At this juncture I am inclined to purchase either Pioneer Elite's SP-EFS73 Dolby Atmos or KEF Q950's. Which would you choose? Lastly, can you recommend a power amp for which ever speakers I select. Thanks Thomas
Well I think Pioneer are known to have lay back sound and Q950 forward sound. So you are looking at 2 different sound. If you look at my video on what speaker to buy, it really depends on your taste. For poweramp, it depends on budget and use. Do you plan to get a receiver so you can watch blurays movies with it? Or would it be strickly on a 2 channel setup. I think for hometheater and if you have the money, then high end arcam is probably one of your few choices. 2 channel, there are so many and it's important they have good synergy with the speaker you bought.
"Kef, if you can configure right, is amazing." Piques my curiosity even more now for the LS50W's. The active versions are raved about with many quality reviews saying they weren't able to get the same level sound out of the passives even with gear in the $10K-15K range. And I'm hearing this A LOT. Maybe DSP and Bi-Amping really do make all the difference. !?
Well, its possible the KEF LS50W is simply a better speaker. The cabin size is not the same so it might be just more than that. Also, the engineer must have configure the built in amp to be perfect. Having said that, it is tune to the engineer taste and might not be yours. A sub of mine listened to it recently streaming with bluetooth and his first reaction was it was too bright. I am curious myself.
I would imagine the cabinet being slightly bigger due to the internals but hard to imagine it is by design for improvements. Amps per driver with active DSP crossover can make a huge difference. I'm suprised your friend couldn't combat the "brightness" by tweaking that. Andrew Jones did an interview in Munich not long ago saying he could get active speakers sounding better than high-end separates (for most tastes) for thousands less. I think he's working on a tower fully active now. Should be intereting.
Oh, that friend heard it at a dealer. Yes, Apparently Andrew is working on one too. Paul McGowan from PS audio also think that it's a good idea. I once almost bought a high end Katana speaker with built in amp, and really regret I did not.
Yeah, I saw PMG's video as well. I'll believe it when I hear it. Touchy subject amongst audiophiles. What will we do without our toys or, even worse, some schmuck down the street can just plug it in out of the box and be in the same league as what we've painstakingly put together.
Hey Thomas thanks for the video. I feel like I've been waiting for ages for the Elac 2.0 to arrive in Australia (only a few weeks to go to now). Have you had the chance to compare the Elac 5.2 to the 6.2? I live in an apartment so worried the 6.2 will be a bit too much for the neighbours.
Sadly I never got a chance to but I do feel the bass is more stronger on the 6.2 over the Elac unifi 5.2. Having said that, I really doubt it's a big difference, in a few weeks, I might bring these Elac over to my friend to compare to his Elac unifi 5.2
I too am interested in knowing how the B5.2 and B6.2 compare. So far, I haven't heard from anyone who's listened to both. I'm curious about it because quite a few actually liked the first generation B5 better than the B6, so I'm curious if that will be the case with the B5.2 as well or if the overwhelming consensus will be the B6.2 is superior/both are about as good. Thomas, if it'd be at all possible for you to do at some point, I'd love for you to listen to the B5.2 and give us your thoughts on how it compares to its big brother!
I see. Well I own the slim version and they do sound thin and a bit bright for me too at most times. I do think its the fault of Sony Ta-515 amp which I run them through. Can it be? I keep using loudness to compensate that a bit, but it is still not enough for my taste. While Debut B6 in comparison - I do not have any issues with them, they sound way fuller without loudness turned on. Treble is softer too, bass fills the room nicely. The only way I prefer Uni-Fi Slims are all the accoustic/audiophile flac files which I run through Colorfly C4. They sound great somehow on that music. My advice would be to keep Debuts for louder, home theater and laid back music listening. While Uni-Fi's more for accoustic and detailed tracks/taste.
I was the one who found the Elac Unifi Slim UB5 bright and thin with vocals. For musical instruments they sound great but vocals come out as thin sounding. Sadly no local stores carry the "regular" Unifi speaker to be able to compare.
Do you think my Sprout 100 would push the Keff well enough to justify hunting a pair down? Or would the sprout be better matched with the ELAC? Thank you!:)
You ask the viewer not to take you serieus. That's easy, because; 1 You connect a few hunderd costing speaker to equipment of a few times 10.000 dollars. 2 You are talking about taste. Taste doesn't exists. Or do you ask f.i. guitar players to remove their high string, because you don't like high tones? Please piano player don't play low notes, I don't like them. 3 You don't mansion anything about the room acoustics and placement of the speakers. That makes 50% of the total result. This is just my opinion as a pro musician, working everyday with life acoustic instruments.
Hi Tom, when do you listen to bookshelf and floorstand speakers? Also do you have multiple tastes in sound? I want to own one more pair of speakers to have some variety but not sure what i want. Thx.
I prefer floorstanding. I am listening to bookshelf mostly for reviewing them. Well, if you want variety, just look at the tweeter. Look at my video what speaker to buy.
Do you think a tube preamp would help the elac or would you recommend a solid state im between a budget tube preamp im going to tube roll or the matching adcom preamp to go along with the older adcom 545 mkII My buddy recommended to me
You mentioned the Elac Unifi series might be to your taste if you don't prefer "brightness" but you specifically distinguished that from the slims. Can you explain why not the slims or how they differ? I was actually considering the slims in part because I was looking for white speakers.
I never heard the Slims version but a viewer mentioned that to me that he and the dealer he went to find it bright. So to be safe, I mentioned it incase it is voiced than the standard one.
For a Desk with speakers about 20cm from the wall 1.5 mt apart and an Emotiva BASx A-100 Amp what speakers would you recommend? Do I need a front port speaker or a KEF LS50 would be ok and don't sound too boomy? What about the Elac 6.2? As my main in my lunchroom I have the ELAC Unify UB5 with a 300W per channel Pioneer Receiver Amp and love them but probably would prefer something a little more Dynamic and lively for my PC room... It is a small room probably 17 mq and has tiled floor and wooden walls.. Not insulation behind the speaker walls for now... Thank you!
I use my LS50s for my computer desk (near field) and have the speakers 10-15cm from the wall- no issues. However when I had them parked right in front of an absorbing acoustic panel sound was terrible as it over dampened. Unfortunately I didn't realize this until 2 yrs later when I decided to remove the panels completely to make for a nicer looking space- only to improve sound dispersion (in all frequencies), fyi my computer setup is in a very large living room.
You got a crapload of good gear, see some Bel Canto on the floor and a Pathos etc... ;) I have had all 3 of those speakers, I am a Dynaudio fan, have a pair of Special 40's and main system Confidence C2's. As you know equipment matching helps.. Good review regardless.. Midrange on the KEFs is very good, cables don't make squat difference, you can make more improvements if you build the right room, make much more of a difference than any cable.
I have an interesting experiment for you. I was watching a video with a lecture by a man from Harman. He said by far the best and easiest way to compare speakers is MONO. The more channels, the harder it is to tell differences and problems. The video is called "Floyd Toole - Sound reproduction - art and science/opinions and facts". Keep up the great videos.
Hey just wanted to say I appreciate your reviews and wanted to recommend another budget speaker that punches waaay above its price point the JBL STAGE A130. I would love to hear your opinion they retail for $249. I own the Elac B6.2 and the JBL's are an entirely different animal.
Hi Thomas what do you think of the New Emotiva DR2 Audioquest type 4 speakers cable ps audio Dac Jr pair up with the Elac speakers ? Please let me know what is your opinion on it thank you
I think people who get a DR2 would look at speakers higher end than the Elac debut. Those Emotiva looks pretty good at 550w, I don't have experience with class H amps so really hard to say. I would gamble they can drive those Elac to their max potential but would you not be better off with the KEF LS50? (Assuming you are ok with bright speakers)
Those foam "bass traps" you have are doing nothing to the low frequencies in your room, absolutely nothing at all. You need dense rockwool or fiber in combination with resonators and diffusion. I am curious to know what other acoustic treatments you have undertaken off camera, as spending 10's of thousands on Amps and Speakers is literally pointless without the right room. Infact arguably, the better the kit you put in the wrong room, the futher away from the original sound you will actually be. You certainly can't make any serious critique of any audio equipment without the right room to listen to it in. It's especially noticable in the low frequencies - if there are modal issues in your room left untreated, these will actually be increased by adding more power and detail into the SPL.
I used curtains on the side + panels too, my room is 30ft + long so no need behind me, and of course carpet below. I don't feel that is bass reverb is an issue. One day, I will have a pro to come in to measure it with test tone. For now, treat the channel as an entertainment channel and not as a serious review channel. Its not my intention to start a review channel. Just sharing my passion.
Like Seas tweeters..RIP your head off..nice review...I like detail and that pin point sound stage..so you are quite correct everyone has there own sound preference...ps..dont like totem and that really round sound...
So aré u saying that a run of the mill integrated amp producing 50 wpc will not drive the elac to its full potential and that buyers should go with a more efficient speaker?
Well, not exactly, a 50wpc will not drive a lot of speakers to it's full potential but it does not mean you should not buy them. Let's say you go buy a high efficient speaker and your 50w will bring out it's bass to the max but you hate the sound signature on those speakers, then it would not be the right choice. The point is the Elac has a lot of potential and it's ok to not to be able to drive it to it's max potential.
Sound Demo 1 Expensive Front End th-cam.com/video/k5vSVCDDfww/w-d-xo.html
Sound Demo 2 Budget Front th-cam.com/video/_uPqgEZ0Woo/w-d-xo.html
hi, how possible would be a Mission QX-2 review?
I was looking it up and there are no good review on it. Usually, if a product has a lot of good review, then I would consider it. It does not mean it's good if it has a lot of good review but it is worth a look. DId you find any good reviews on the QX-2?
well not exactly. they just released like 2 months ago. the only review which is reasonable is in german. you might wanna check it out. they put my kef ls50 to leave is all i can say, because they sound better overall and i got the qx-2 for 381€ on release, even the qx-1 would have sufficed for the job to put my previous ls50 to shame. sound signaturewise: bold dynamic bass that rivals towerspeakers, extended relaxed highs, big natural soundstage, excellent price/performance. nice finish. only thing that is missing for me is vocal and trumpet/saxophone presentation that you get with kefs or q acoustics
and here a smaller translated review
translate.google.de/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.lite-magazin.de%2F2018%2F03%2Ftest-regallautsprecher-mission-qx-1-eleganz-und-stil-von-morgen-schon-heute%2F&edit-text=
a 1500$$ amp ( integrated , even better).. an 1500$$ cd pre amp...500$ inter connects an cables gives a nice price point for true testing...
Hello Thomas how does the kef ls 50 compare to the elac max spl reference volume wise?. I have a good front end, and will the kef ls50's sound good with rock, pop, reggae, using a subwoofer?.
Excellent, Thomas, thank you! And brother, your equipment is killer!
Thomas, you made some excellent point comparisons. In fact, I've been arguing this with some diehard _'audiophiles'_ for over 30 years!
This is what makes High End audio so subjective, too. I find that some reviewers are stuck in the same gear; and fail to appreciate the variety of new sounds and recordings.
I love all sorts of music... a much wider range than anyone else I know; and because of this, I like an extremely versatile system; however, I don't believe in equalizers. They tend to distort the recorded music. Instead, I prefer a very neutral system, which provides an accurate reflection of what the artists recorded in the studio. This makes it difficult to find components and speakers, which allow me to reproduce a truly neutral reproduction of the source material.
Some speakers, although they are more expensive, will colour the music unnecessarily. Often, this is because they should be matched with components that counter the warmth, or brightness that they reproduce. Another thing that creates issues with speaker reproduction is the environment... the room setup and layout. People never think of this, until it's too late. With bookshelf speakers, placement of the speak can be crucial. Too close to the wall for a rear-ported speaker; and the bass is all muddled. Too far... and the bass seems inadequate. How much to toe the speakers in... if at all! These are all things that people need to play around with, in order to tune their speakers in.
The most important thing, though... is to get proper speaker cable. I think that braided cable offers the best sound; and people should really max out their cable to just beyond the limits of the speakers' capability.
I've been using my Numen Model II bookshelf speakers, for over two decades; and I wouldn't trade them in for anything. Not at this point. Maybe, if I move to a place where the room configuration warrants more expensive speakers, but not now.
Really appreciate you sharing your thoughts. I read it twice and it will be helpful to many people.
Keep it up buddy! You are the best audio reviewer I have ever seen!
I have the DBR62. Even after i upgraded the crossover to shore up the treble dropoff, the DBR62 just can't touch the KEF in terms of treble detail or clarity. The KEF has better definition and resolve on top. The kef, however isn't my cup of Earl Grey. Something about concentric driver and cheap metal tweeter. Origami folding a tweeter like JBL did in the 80's does not smooth it out. The kef does have a bit of a metallic edge to the sound. The dynaudio makes a more sophisticated tweeter IMO. I prefer the dynaudio too- it's more of a natural and refined sound.
Loved ur review! Very detailed& honest!! Plz do as many as u can, and if u take requests, I would like to see more in th mod range with equal price 2 performance ratio. I think brand vs. brand is what sound consumers really want 2 see! Thanx again, I jus subscribed.
This is one of the most comprehensive and informative speaker reviews I have watched. Very well done. You have offered a good perspective of what is available to a wide range of listeners.
Hey Thomas, thanks for your video! I bought the Elac and Man what a great speaker! I compared the Elac with my Kef Q350 and it truly was hard for me to pick the better of the two. The Elac had better bass and the Kef had better highs. So for the money the Elac won. The kef is such a cheery bright performer...When i hook up my sub...watch out!! Anyone can create great performance with not a ton of money. Keep up your great work!!! Tube Amps forever!!!
This is a decision that needs to be made after you actually listen to them live in person. There are quite literally tens of millions of boxes with one inch dome tweeters in this world. Some are indeed demonstrably better sounding than others but it’s essentially the same technology. An awful lot of people who end up buying Klipsch speakers like the fun and dynamics that a Tractrix loaded tweeter puts into listening.
"To your taste" . . . This is so true Thomas.
I liked this review even it was clearly emphasized that its just for fun. The review still become very objective in my view, when actual testing are being made and explore on positive and negative plus some hint to work around on some weaknesses, it helps. Thanks for sharing!
I enjoy your reviews and love your down to earth passion Thomas. Thank you.
With the audio market as with any other market, price and quality are not expressed in a linear or even relative fashion. In all reality, enjoyment is far more important that quality, but unfortunately the public has been conditioned to believe that paying more will play a huge roll in their enjoyment. That's not to say a well sorted high end system doesn't sound better than a well sorted cheap system, only that one man's trash is another man's treasure. It's refreshing to hear an online "opinion" regarding audio equipment that respects the intelligence of their audience and recognizes their own subjective taste. In the ego driven smoke and mirrors world of audiophile fantasy, it's hard to find an honest and informative explanation of things like how the front end effects the sound quality of a speaker. I must say, I'm sick of massive generalizations that rationalize up-selling in order to get quality sound. One of the most ridiculous things I've heard is that you should spend at least 3X the cost of your stereo system's front end on your speakers. Thank you Thomas for demystifying and myth busting some of these assumptions. GREAT comparison in all respects.
Can anybody list off a few speaker companies that sell directly to the public, Thomas mentioned cutting out the middleman (store) you get more for your money.
There is Schiit.
@@ThomasAndStereo
Have you had a chance to make a video, explaining your exact listening process from Series of tests to music choices ?
I'm sure your listeners would enjoy this.
I wish my elacs looks like my kefs , and i wish my kefs sound like my elacs. 🤔....must go to my workshop 😆
Listen to the Dynaudios and you'll wish they both sound like that!
B&w better than them all
Elacs look cheap, but then so do the gimmicky looking KEFs.
I listened to hi end audio in a very good audio store. Sonos Faber, Spendor, PMC, Dynaudio.... all with expensive amps. When I came home I didn’t feel something missing with my ls50 and MJ Acoustics sub. The Kef combined with a good amp can compete with much more expensive speakers.
Congrats in finding a good combo. The LS50 are amazing, I sold mine but bought another pair again. I even bought the LS50w.
The LS50s won't sound very good with the stand top overhanging (especially that much) the speaker. I finally got my LS50s set up where I can really turn up the volume and they sound great. The LS50s like rock solid sand filled stands, high pass filter on my amp set at 40 hz, at least the partial port plugs in and room to breath (2 feet off the wall). I first thought the LS50s were too bright for me, but now they roll off smoother in the highs (yet more extended and detailed) than any of my soft dome tweeters speakers.
Thanks so much for making this video Thomas. I'm on a quest to find the best affordable combo for stereo and surround sound/tv speakers. I'm currently running a Yamaha RX-V681 with an Oppo UHD-203 disc player and a pair of Paradigm 9seMkII and a Paradigm center channel and 10" Paradigm powered sub. It's great, but I need height speakers for a ATMOS set up. Can my system use more power? It's been said that my Paradigm 9se Mk II's need lots of power. I've never felt this new Yamaha matched my old RX-V 850 with high current amps ability, but the old 850 blew a channel after 31 years! lol.... Thanks again for your video!
On paper, you should have enough as it is a very standard setup. If you don't feel enough, you can by a separate amp just for the 2 stereo channel assuming your receiver has the output. That way, you get better sound and you solve the power issue. Just incase you are not aware you can do that, read up on it. Glad you enjoy my video, much appreciated.
Watching your videos reminds me why I love audio. Keep up the excellent work.
Appreciate the feedback. :)
KEF's concentric drivers are especially great for arms length "nearfield" listening arrangements.
agreed ... dispersion is amazing
DynAudio is GREAT!!!
underrated video review...especially with the associated sound demos...this definitely helps the novices like myself interpret the impacts of "synergy" across systems....
I was looking into getting the Elacs as my first Stereo setup. I think your overall classification and viewpoints on real world ideas as well as audiophile ideas. It just makes sense to me to get something good for only $279. I doubt ill ever go much higher than that. These seems to be a great option for me. I have also been looking at the Polk Signature series, what is your view on those relative to the Elacs?
I never try polk but someone suggest I give RTI A3 a try so actively looking for one now.
In my opinion Polk is good bang for the buck the signature series is vary attractive ive not heard them in person but I have no doubt they'd be a satisfying purchase. My first stereo setup was a Polk setup consisting of a pair of TSX 220bs, a 250c, and a polk PSW111 sub ran through a Denon E300...brought it all online without any listening test and enjoyed it a lot and planned to use them for much longer but when the KEF Q series we're on final clearance sales I took a chance and brought a couple sets of Q100s and stored one of the Q100s and use the other 3 as my 3 front channel speakers and then of course had to upgrade my sub to match the KEFS quality so paired them with a SVS SB1000 and its an amazing setup which I plan to only ever upgrade with higher end KEF speakers so I can move my Q100s to the rear channel surrounds. in my opinion look for sales on higher end speakers,... high end bookself speakers + high end sub is better then a mid low end towers or bookself speaker with or without a mid-low end sub and unless you have a really large room and no concerns of noise pollution then towers are usually a must have espacially if you plan on buying a good sub anyways then towers are less of a priority. overall I dont think you can go wrong with either the ELACS or Polk signatures series through i'd personally lean towards ELAC since there brand is a bit more well known for high end quality speakers at a friendly price range whereas Polk you really have to step up to there top of the line speakers before you could ever truly compete with the lower end KEF and ELAC speakers but bang for you buck you can build a vary nice home theatre at a vary affordable price with polk speakers but if your a true audiophile type of person then your 90% likely to want to eventually upgrade to something higher end then polks but for many people polks are just enough there surely better then a soundbar and before i experienced something better such as my kefs I truly thought you couldnt get much better then polks....all in all for a beginning setup polks are perfect and might be all you ever want and need, but for true sound junkies there not vary respected and there really just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the speakers available on the market today but there one of the most recognizable brands and flood the market everywhere.... other brands you have to dig and search for to obtain but in the end its always worth it going withover the standard off the self big box store brand speakers with polk has become over the years.
Polk rti3
Dillon Carpenter ... You don’t think you will ever go much higher than that. I have said that before. At least 3 times. ;-)
if you want good looks BUY POLK /if you want ridiculous great sound that you would get if you payed 5x the amount Buy ELACS@@ThomasAndStereo
This is what I want to see. Compare different speakers to each other so I have a better idea of what to expect
Thanks, I enjoy doing these videos so there is some point of reference. Makes it more interesting :)
Thanks again for a great comparison video! thank you for your style, "spelling it right out" and, "speaking between the lines for us", as to for us having to "read btw the lines" ourselves! Very refreshing.
Each speaker does bring so much of its own flavour to the sound, it's very hard to pick just one (even if the wife said so)!
I have 5 pairs now and, the Harbeth P3ESRs is my "daily driver". It's a nice all-rounder that excels on vocals or speech. My others speakers vary on abilities such as soundstage (Magepans), efficiency/SPL (Audio Note) or, different iterations on my "daily driver" theme (Rogers LS3/5a, Toku & Gawa 3" full range)......
Lastly, I liked what you said about the Elacs that they may not be the most sophisticated but it's a lot of fun to listen to. Don't stop having fun! Thumbs Up!
Thanks Simon. I like the Harbeth and was really impressed with the vocals. I actually did make a video on the P3ESR a while ago and hopefully, one day I get to try a pair of Rogers LS3. Like you have a few speakers and all have it's strength. It's hard to have one speaker that does it all. Thanks for the comment.
well, I'm not actually that smart. these are just the ones I kept :-)
Fine tuning with cables ?!?! So funny......no cable can alter the sound ..... Use EQ like a Beringer 2496
I went to a high end HiFi store yesterday to check out the Klipsch RP-600M speakers, they didn’t have any in stock, but the salesman highly suggested the Dynaudio Emit 20 bookshelf speakers over the Klipsch. I haven’t heard them yet, but they are a few hundred dollars cheaper than the Klipsch speakers, and are very well made. The salesman said the Dynaudio Emit’s are much less fatiguing and easy on the ears than the Klipsch too! Looks like I have another speaker on my list! 🙂
Sure, give the Emit 20 a try. Its true that the klipsch can be less fatiguing but people who look for klipsch are looking for something different that the EMT cannot give. It's different and it's a question of taste.
Thomas & Stereo yes that is true. It’s just so hard to decide what to go with, there’s so many options these days.
Love your videos. Keep it up :)
So much definition you can hear what Thomas highest expression of the art @ 13:30 LOL
Very nice review. And it makes sense! I've heard the LS50s and a Dynaudio bookshelf model in Japan (a while back) but I don't remember the model! The Dynaudios can sound very nice depending on what is attached to them. They can also sound bright with the wrong equipment. I've always seen Dynaudio as a next level speaker for those of us at the bottom of the audio food chain! I doubt I would ever purchase a KEF. Actually, I have some VINTAGE KEF I like a lot better because they are warmer and use a soft dome!
As, I mentioned, I have a pair of the Elacs and am finding that amplification is an IMPORTANT factor with them. You can't just hook them up to whatever. They'll sound OK, but they won't wow! This is particularly true concerning their dynamics and bass performance. They just don't sound that dynamic and the bass is less weighty on an average amp of lower power. Eventually I'll hook them up to my tube integrated and see what they sound like. I expect, tubes might be good with these?
yes, please share your findings. i love the vintage kef 105 and lived with one for a while. i am moving back to tubes now, so very interested.
I am not an expert on tubes by any means. I just know what I like to hear. I had an interesting experience when I was on sabbatical in Beijing for a year. I had the chance to visit a couple of Chinese tube manufacturers in the central and southern areas. And was allowed to hear some of their best mono-blocks and pres along with their CD tube players on a pair of vintage, MONSTER sized Tannoys! I really don't remember the model. But they were HUGE! And, boy, the dynamic sound that came from them was nothing short of amazing! Plenty of low end, nice smooth highs, good sound stage, and fantastic dynamics. Orchestras filled the demo room with sound! I believe the system was pushing 150 watts per mono block into each Tannoy. And a 150 watts of continuous RMS tube power is something to behold!
I can only imagine what a Hi-End tube manufacturer's gear sounds like! I can't afford it, of course! A lot of the better Chinese manufacturers: Shuguang, Jolida, YaQin, etc. With perhaps Shuguang at the top? Use, I believe, German windings on their transformers, as well as German and other European designs to emulate in their own products. Hence, pretty decent, affordable value for those of us down stream. (To be honest, I'm not sure if Shuguang is still making gear, they are the major manufacturer of Chinese tubes). Of course, if you have the money and can step up some there are many options out there. An affordable step up would be Prima Luna gear, bang for your buck. But a little too much for me! And, of course, vintage McIntosh tube gear is wonderful if up to spec!
KEF 105s, those are nice. Never heard them. A bit big for my office! Also not that easy to find! I've had the Reference Model 104s with the race-track passive radiator, and a lesser pair of Coda III bookshelves that were very smooth and musical, non-fatiguing, but lacked low end! The 104s had more, of course!
I find these chinese product not bad, I had the Yaqin 10T integrated amp at one point and got it for about $400cdn used. Very good for the price. My friend has the prima luna and I am actually going to bring over the Elac and KEF to try them on the Prima luna, Most likely I will make a video on it.
One of my friend has the Audio Research VT200, it generates 200W RMS and uses 26 tubes! That is one reason I moved away from tubes, so expensive when need its time to change the tubes!
Hello this is my short version of my long version comparison of these 3 speakrs. I have grown a full beard just watching the Short version.
You need to do the comparison using the KEF R300's not the LS50's
i came across a R500...wonder if I should give it a try.
Thomas & Stereo I own the R500's, in my opinion they are really really good speakers. Very clean and powerful bass. I highly recommend them, feed them good power though.
R300 seems to be a highly underrated speaker. I never understood why is that and why LS50 is such a hype. In almost any regard, the R300 is a better choice.
@@kaymanul Because the r300 a have a lot of bass and is more detailed, but in the same time can be more bright and the bass is too much for somes songs... Need (like ls50) a ideal setup. For rocks lover is better, for jazz no way in my opinion
Hi Thomas. Wished I’ve seen this video a few months earlier. Stumbled upon your channel after watching hundreds of vids for my research. One can’t go wrong with what you showcased.
What do you recommend to drive the ELAC speakers to 80% or 90%, considering your high end gear drives them to max? Budget is USD 2000.
Thanks! At $2k USD, you can choose anything at it will drive it to 100% Having said that, it would be an unbalance system which the frontend taking 80% of the system budget.
I like this guy. Great video. Thanks.
Your voice need to be mixed 🙄🤦🏻♂️ ssss 🥴
Really appreciated your Introduction. Great summary and useful comparison of three intriguing speakers.
Hi Thomas, really enjoy your videos, learning a lot. In doing these comparisons have you ever tried the Apple HomePod speakers paired in stereo? There seems to be mixed opinions on them and I have found some people saying they sounded better then the LS50's. I'm currently looking at a more budget option and when adding up something like the Elac, amp and source you quickly pass the price of the two HomePods. In my particular case I'm very interested in the built in DSP provided it sounds natural as I don't have a great sounding room and can't treat it, but am looking for a musical experience. I would appreciate your insight/ thoughts on achieving musical sound though some DSP trickery when room acoustics are not ideal (ie. you mentioned you found an improvement in the LS50 wireless when the room corrections were on). Appreciate your time.
No I have not tried apple home pod. I understand DSP is great but it cannot replace a good pair of speakers. Although I never heard apple home pod, my understanding is that it;s strength is convenience as priority. Everything is a question of budget, based on budget, you can then look at what is available for you. For sure, dsp is not everything, you don't need much to 'treat' a room. Treating room is important but it all depends what level of listening you want to get into. Don't over think it.
refreshing to find reviews that are not just a cheerleading love festival. your reviews are always so enlightening
Kef LS50 blends very well with Rega Brio-R amp. Very non-fatiguing.
Idiot, you can use every Amp.
@@Blake_Painter Why use "idiot" word? I have the LS50 and a top end sansui alpha or a yamaha as2000 is very bright in my setup, I have better results with a CXA80 which is a bit relaxed in top and have a nice punch, is a nice combo
@@FEGTTTSDH fairytales and imagination.
reading too much audio advertising magazines?
Goldears? Sorry for the "idiot".
Very intelligent !!! Respect
I'm glad that you mentioned briefly the effects of the front end on speaker sound. I have heard speakers that sounded very bright and harsh with solid state which sounded fabulous with tube amplification. This is not just imagination but quite real and obvious when doing critical side by side comparisons.
The times I've trialed the Elac Debut 6.2 I've found they have a thick and sometimes boomy bass (not accurate for me). I wish you would demo the Canton GLE 436.2 or 426.2 because these are their entry level pedestal mount speakers, and both sell under $1000. I've found this line has enough of their high end technology to make the term entry level a misnomer.
For Canton, i had the 809 before and now have the reference 3.2dc, overall, they sound good.
Hi Thomas,
You should try the tekton design Impact monitor, or double impact tower. This could be a situation where a $3000 dollar speaker can beat a $10000 dollar speaker. Several reviewers have changed from 18-30k speakers to the double impact.
I would love to and heard so many good things about it too. I find the design very interesting but they don't sell it in Canada so people who import them end up selling them close to the price new, that is like $4k cdn :( I am waiting patiently for one to come up.
I just wanted to say I appreciate and enjoy all your videos.
I have an Onkyo rz820, not high-end but good enough
I'm struggling to find the perfect speakers. For basement man cave , I buy ,then don't like then sell , and repeat.
Would I be disappointed with elac?
Or the kef? Or klipsch 600?
And please let me know when you have a garage sale 😁
Lol. Look, all those 3 speakers have been well reviewed so you know they are very good for their category. Category meaning , kef with hard dome, Rp600m with horn and elac with soft dome. So performance is not in question, just is it to your taste that is the question and sadly, only you can answer that after you try it at your place.
@@ThomasAndStereo
Since you're not trying to sell me anything
I trust your opinion you are the audio Jedi.
Since my receiver is considered bright, would purchasing speakers that are mid-range dominant counteract the brightness of the AVR?
Reven purchasing a good quality preamp to counteract the brightness of my current AVR?
@Thomas&Stereo Thank you for your review. I downgraded from my LS50W to the Debut 6.2, but I am not quite liking it. I have the feeling that the soundstage is less "defined" for the Elac, and what really drives me crazy, I imagine most vocals/center music a bit to the left - even in your sound demo listening with headphones (which is weirding me out, am I that biased?)! How would you compare the soundstage between the Elac and the KEF?
That is a major downgrade. The LS50w is already significantly better than the LS50. The soundstage? I don't really remember, meaning nothing really stands out that I hit me. I have to do a comparison buy my KEF are at my friend's place. What about you, how would you compare the both soundstage?
Sorry for my late reply. My main issue with the Elac soundstage is, that it depends heavily on where you are: as soon as I move out of the imaginary center the closest speaker seems to be the more dominant one for e.g. vocals. This is not really surprising, but the sweetspot is (in my room) very very narrow. As far as I can remember, the LS50 were more forgiving if one sits off-center. This is especially worrying me as the speakers double as TV Speakers.
Great info. Enjoyed listening to your overview.
Is there a bird in the background?
No there is not.
Hi you Are good boss
I wanna know abt Elac ,kef q300 , focal 706 which one is good with marantz nr1200
Dynaudio focus 160 i wanna hear it!
I have it in 2 other videos the sound demo.
Thanks for the sound demos. hahahaha ................. please man
Thomas, how have you been doing, great prospective. I liked what you said about the ls50's because I did own them at one point and had to return them because I couldn't get them to sound right in my current space, so I'm sticking with the Vandersteens for now, but they were extremely bright, and you are right, they benefit from a good sub.
I currently have a pair of last years version of the elacs that you are reviewing and they are good for what they are and had more bass than the ls50, but didn't sound as good overall.. The Dyna Audios, I have never owned. Im however currently breaking in a new cartridge, a Hana Eh as I type and it is quite good for its price and punches well above its weight. In another room, I'm burning in a pair of Audioquest Night Owl Carbons through my Simaudio 230hd. Good luck man and keep up the good work.
Hey Sid, so good to hear from you again. Yes, I remember you had the ls50 and it did not work for you. Btw, I finally did the video on the AR ref 40 and I had the unit open just for you, check it out and the music clip too. th-cam.com/video/VedRT3dCDnk/w-d-xo.html
Life without tone controls, so funny to watch.
For not a review it was super helpful
Hi Thomas,
Even though I'm sure they're excellent VFM sonically I just can't get over the Elac's very uninspired looks.
FWIW I would have liked to see the Totem Sky in this lineup.
Thanks
I heard many good things about Sky too. Hopefully one day.
Thomas, your video left saying "mmmmmmm".
Buy the Elac's, the differences are not worth the the extra money. Its not realistic to expect a person with a $10,000 amplifier to match them to the $550 Elac's. And i certainly wouldnt match a $10000 amp with small bookshelfs.
FORGET ALL THIS BS. IT IS ACTUALLY THE QUALITY AND "QUALITIES" OF THE CD THAT HAVE THE MOST TO DO WITH REALISM, IMAGING, FREQUENCY RANGES, CLARITY, ETC..ETC.THEN PUT INTO YOUR SYSTEM A DECENT "HOME THEATER" SUBWOOFER IF YOU LIKE LOTS OF BASS OR WANT TO HEAR THE ORCHESTRAL BASS VIOLINS LIKE ME. THEN SAVE TONS OF MONEY...AND...AND "ENJOY THE MUSIC"!!!
Hi Thomas, great video. I also got good results with the iTube2 in the chain with LS50’s, though for me the bass was still clean with just a +6db boost and overall still balanced, but became way too much with +12db. Looking forward to your review of the iTube, it’s an interesting little device, probably not for everyone or every system, but definitely makes a difference to those who want to tame a system that is a little lean and bright, something for the price that is worth trying before swapping out other more expensive components. Added a good dose of presence and solidity in the system I had it set up with.
Yup agree, with 6db + its good. 12db, it was uncomfortable. How did you find the 3D feature? I tried it and it worked but did not feel natural.
I think that 3D setting will be very speaker dependent and more useful for nearfield use. I didn’t find it made much difference to the soundstage with the LS50’s, maybe it’s because they already have a very wide dispersion. But it does something like boosting the higher frequencies making a little bit more airy at the expense of balance, but I’m not sure if it is better or worse. A lot of it comes down to the recording
Great review. Im really happy with my Elac Debuts so i guess at the end of the day thats all that matters
Right on!
i was in a very nice retail environment demoing amps last weekend and there was a pair of trade in ls50 sitting there and i decided to ask for fun to demo them on a few of the amps we were trying we did and a smile lit up my face(they are absolute total garbage stay away stay far far away, ) the modern sub 1000 dollar bookshelf is a cash grab , elac can be passable still not good and at least the dynadio will be natural but dear god run fast and far from the ls50, this was my 3 or 4th experience iv only had a bad taste in my mouth, ppl dont belive the hype you can do much better dont sell your self short dont support by buying future landfill (i was listinign to the big mf nuvista and a bryston and marklevinson)
To your taste is correct. Everyone been raving about the ELAC but I auditioned them 3 times with different amplification with high expectation. They sound very muddy to me. Way too much bass and not enough clarity for my taste
Try listening to music instead of the equipment. Swap this, swap that, fiddle with this, twiddle with that. And listen to live music sometimes.
It's too late for me, I have gone to the dark side :)
Love your practicality and philosophy. Quite enlightening! Thank you!
Thank you for the logic you put in your reviews! It really cuts out the guess work when comparing and purchasing products.
Glad you enjoy it, I spent a few weeks thinking about it and how to make it not boring.
Thank you sir reality therapy great insight honest video finding a speaker is a choice like the colors of a rainbow that you like the must.
You were not doing too badly until you started talking bollocks about the electronic stuff.
Nice comparison of these speakers and some great insights, Thomas...I noticed you really like "I'll Be Loving You Forever"...at the 3:18 mark...I believe you used it in at least one of your other videos...it's a great song...I should probably upload a vinyl rip for you, lol.
Nice one Thomas. I really enjoy your reviews. The KEF LS50 is a great speaker for many, but they didn't work for me, it was way to forward. Never listened to the 160, but i enjoyed the earlier version focus 140. I just took delivery of Dynaudio s 1.4 today, and it's by far my favourite speaker i've heard. I know you had the contour 5.4 before but sold, but i can't remember if you have listened to the C1 (or larger)? Personally of the Elac, KEF and 160, i love the finish most on the 160.
Yup, those speaker are not for everyone. You know I am driving it right now as I type with the Mcintosh MC452 with Pathos Logos turbe preamp front end and it's 0% harsh...the mc452 is incredible. Congrats on the S1.4, it's really in my opinion for sophisticated audiophiles. I never heard the C1 and C4 are my dream speakers (although I never heard it before). The reason is because my friend who owns the $300k system told me those speaker left an impression on him and only 3 to 5 speakers left an impression on him in his life.
The Kef definitely needs a warm front end like tubes to balance out their tendency to sound bright.
LS50 with mcintosh sounds like an incredible combo! It's interesting you like the Elac so much. Never listened to them, but at the price they're cheap enough that people who are not into hifi could buy them and get a taste of good music. Will keep my eye out for elacs!
I had the KEF LS50W actives for 2 months. Loved them on modern, well-mastered music. But kind of unforgiving for my crappier recordings, which still encompass songs and music I love. I prefer the smoother presentation of tubes and/or PSB speakers. I tried a lot of things with DSP via Roon, couldn’t get them to where I liked it, so I returned. But my experience tells me the KEFs sit in between the PSBs (sweet & smooth to me) and B&Ws, which I find very brash. So those of you who seek higher detail without becoming overly brash, LS50Ws might be for you. (I probably should have tried the iFi tube buffer!). Hope this helps!
Nice review. What is you main speaker?
It's the Earthquake Titan Tigris...major issues with it but...
Thomas & Stereo I will check them out.
I'll keep my eyes out at my local Goodwill to see if anyone donates a pair....
Hi, nice video! I see you have a lot of experience with sound. I have at the moment Fatman Tube amp just 15 w, IFI NANO AMP and Denon 7200 headphone. Witch Speakers will go ok with my set up. I like Klipsch sound, may be KEF lsx very small. Thanks advance.
Thanks. I don't know that amp so I can't say. Check out my video on the RP600M, I like that speaker, it has the 'new' klipsch sound though.
Great insight
Thanks for the sound demos. The setups sound pretty much identical on youtube.
+1 for using New Kids on the Block at 3:20 for the sound demo!
Hi Thomas. Firstly, you have, what I perceive, the most pleasant personality. With that said, I really like your reviews: they are plain spoken and very informative. I am in the process of purchasing new floor speakers. At this juncture I am inclined to purchase either Pioneer Elite's SP-EFS73 Dolby Atmos or KEF Q950's. Which would you choose? Lastly, can you recommend a power amp for which ever speakers I select. Thanks Thomas
Well I think Pioneer are known to have lay back sound and Q950 forward sound. So you are looking at 2 different sound. If you look at my video on what speaker to buy, it really depends on your taste. For poweramp, it depends on budget and use. Do you plan to get a receiver so you can watch blurays movies with it? Or would it be strickly on a 2 channel setup. I think for hometheater and if you have the money, then high end arcam is probably one of your few choices. 2 channel, there are so many and it's important they have good synergy with the speaker you bought.
"Kef, if you can configure right, is amazing." Piques my curiosity even more now for the LS50W's. The active versions are raved about with many quality reviews saying they weren't able to get the same level sound out of the passives even with gear in the $10K-15K range. And I'm hearing this A LOT. Maybe DSP and Bi-Amping really do make all the difference. !?
Well, its possible the KEF LS50W is simply a better speaker. The cabin size is not the same so it might be just more than that. Also, the engineer must have configure the built in amp to be perfect. Having said that, it is tune to the engineer taste and might not be yours. A sub of mine listened to it recently streaming with bluetooth and his first reaction was it was too bright. I am curious myself.
I would imagine the cabinet being slightly bigger due to the internals but hard to imagine it is by design for improvements. Amps per driver with active DSP crossover can make a huge difference. I'm suprised your friend couldn't combat the "brightness" by tweaking that. Andrew Jones did an interview in Munich not long ago saying he could get active speakers sounding better than high-end separates (for most tastes) for thousands less. I think he's working on a tower fully active now. Should be intereting.
Oh, that friend heard it at a dealer. Yes, Apparently Andrew is working on one too. Paul McGowan from PS audio also think that it's a good idea. I once almost bought a high end Katana speaker with built in amp, and really regret I did not.
Yeah, I saw PMG's video as well. I'll believe it when I hear it. Touchy subject amongst audiophiles. What will we do without our toys or, even worse, some schmuck down the street can just plug it in out of the box and be in the same league as what we've painstakingly put together.
Hey Thomas thanks for the video. I feel like I've been waiting for ages for the Elac 2.0 to arrive in Australia (only a few weeks to go to now).
Have you had the chance to compare the Elac 5.2 to the 6.2? I live in an apartment so worried the 6.2 will be a bit too much for the neighbours.
Sadly I never got a chance to but I do feel the bass is more stronger on the 6.2 over the Elac unifi 5.2. Having said that, I really doubt it's a big difference, in a few weeks, I might bring these Elac over to my friend to compare to his Elac unifi 5.2
That would be an interesting comparison. I have heard good things about the uni-fi
I too am interested in knowing how the B5.2 and B6.2 compare. So far, I haven't heard from anyone who's listened to both.
I'm curious about it because quite a few actually liked the first generation B5 better than the B6, so I'm curious if that will be the case with the B5.2 as well or if the overwhelming consensus will be the B6.2 is superior/both are about as good.
Thomas, if it'd be at all possible for you to do at some point, I'd love for you to listen to the B5.2 and give us your thoughts on how it compares to its big brother!
TastySanchez they sound very different. Check our my video on the unifi elac if u have not seen it.
Where can you even buy them in Australia?
In one moment you mentioned, that Elac Uni-Fi does not sound the same as Slim version? Is that true? What are differences? Thanks.
i mentioned it because in my elac unifi video, someone mentioned in the comments they are bright. i never heard it but mentioned it for safety.
I see. Well I own the slim version and they do sound thin and a bit bright for me too at most times.
I do think its the fault of Sony Ta-515 amp which I run them through. Can it be? I keep using loudness to compensate that a bit, but it is still not enough for my taste.
While Debut B6 in comparison - I do not have any issues with them, they sound way fuller without loudness turned on. Treble is softer too, bass fills the room nicely.
The only way I prefer Uni-Fi Slims are all the accoustic/audiophile flac files which I run through Colorfly C4.
They sound great somehow on that music.
My advice would be to keep Debuts for louder, home theater and laid back music listening.
While Uni-Fi's more for accoustic and detailed tracks/taste.
I was the one who found the Elac Unifi Slim UB5 bright and thin with vocals. For musical instruments they sound great but vocals come out as thin sounding. Sadly no local stores carry the "regular" Unifi speaker to be able to compare.
Klipsh 600 m is better
Do you think my Sprout 100 would push the Keff well enough to justify hunting a pair down? Or would the sprout be better matched with the ELAC? Thank you!:)
Although you can do much better, it should be still satisfying enough.
You ask the viewer not to take you serieus. That's easy, because;
1 You connect a few hunderd costing speaker to equipment of a few times 10.000 dollars.
2 You are talking about taste. Taste doesn't exists. Or do you ask f.i. guitar players to remove their high string, because you don't like high tones? Please piano player don't play low notes, I don't like them.
3 You don't mansion anything about the room acoustics and placement of the speakers. That makes 50% of the total result.
This is just my opinion as a pro musician, working everyday with life acoustic instruments.
Yeah, speaker placement and room acoustics is forsure as important as I mentioned in the QUAD video. Sadly I am not expert enough to talk about it.
Hi Tom, when do you listen to bookshelf and floorstand speakers? Also do you have multiple tastes in sound? I want to own one more pair of speakers to have some variety but not sure what i want. Thx.
I prefer floorstanding. I am listening to bookshelf mostly for reviewing them. Well, if you want variety, just look at the tweeter. Look at my video what speaker to buy.
I love your no bullshit approach, kinda tired of people telling the same things like robots. I really thank you for your originality.
Do you think a tube preamp would help the elac or would you recommend a solid state im between a budget tube preamp im going to tube roll or the matching adcom preamp to go along with the older adcom 545 mkII My buddy recommended to me
Both are good but will have different results.
This is the one I’ve been waiting for! Thanks! I’ll watch it tonight at Starbucks!
You mentioned the Elac Unifi series might be to your taste if you don't prefer "brightness" but you specifically distinguished that from the slims. Can you explain why not the slims or how they differ? I was actually considering the slims in part because I was looking for white speakers.
I never heard the Slims version but a viewer mentioned that to me that he and the dealer he went to find it bright. So to be safe, I mentioned it incase it is voiced than the standard one.
I like how you explain each speaker, well-done
For a Desk with speakers about 20cm from the wall 1.5 mt apart and an Emotiva BASx A-100 Amp what speakers would you recommend? Do I need a front port speaker or a KEF LS50 would be ok and don't sound too boomy? What about the Elac 6.2? As my main in my lunchroom I have the ELAC Unify UB5 with a 300W per channel Pioneer Receiver Amp and love them but probably would prefer something a little more Dynamic and lively for my PC room... It is a small room probably 17 mq and has tiled floor and wooden walls.. Not insulation behind the speaker walls for now... Thank you!
Also take a look at the triangle br03 and the Klipsch RP600m. If it is too boomy, you can close the bass port with a pair of socks.
I use my LS50s for my computer desk (near field) and have the speakers 10-15cm from the wall- no issues. However when I had them parked right in front of an absorbing acoustic panel sound was terrible as it over dampened. Unfortunately I didn't realize this until 2 yrs later when I decided to remove the panels completely to make for a nicer looking space- only to improve sound dispersion (in all frequencies), fyi my computer setup is in a very large living room.
I'm hooked on your channel... Just watched your and ZF review of the Triangles. Now going back and just watching your catalog of old vids.
Great job on this review!
Hey man you ought to do a podcast! I would subscribe :)
You got a crapload of good gear, see some Bel Canto on the floor and a Pathos etc... ;) I have had all 3 of those speakers, I am a Dynaudio fan, have a pair of Special 40's and main system Confidence C2's. As you know equipment matching helps.. Good review regardless.. Midrange on the KEFs is very good, cables don't make squat difference, you can make more improvements if you build the
right room, make much more of a difference than any cable.
Is the Special 40 way better than the focus 160? I heard that they can rival the C1. Check out my latest video on room acoustics and the Quads.
Try as I might I couldn't make any sense of this.
I have an interesting experiment for you. I was watching a video with a lecture by a man from Harman. He said by far the best and easiest way to compare speakers is MONO. The more channels, the harder it is to tell differences and problems. The video is called "Floyd Toole - Sound reproduction - art and science/opinions and facts". Keep up the great videos.
Thanks, I will check it out.
Got my 5.0 system of Elac F6.2, C6.2, OW4.2 for 1200$ CAD. Super happy with the performance!
Congrats.
Hey just wanted to say I appreciate your reviews and wanted to recommend another budget speaker that punches waaay above its price point the JBL STAGE A130. I would love to hear your opinion they retail for $249. I own the Elac B6.2 and the JBL's are an entirely different animal.
HAVE YOU HEARD THE JBL STAGE A130 COMPARED TO YOUR ELAC B 6.2? WHAT DIFFERENCES DO YOU FIND
Hi Thomas what do you think of the New Emotiva DR2 Audioquest type 4 speakers cable ps audio Dac Jr pair up with the Elac speakers ? Please let me know what is your opinion on it thank you
I think people who get a DR2 would look at speakers higher end than the Elac debut. Those Emotiva looks pretty good at 550w, I don't have experience with class H amps so really hard to say. I would gamble they can drive those Elac to their max potential but would you not be better off with the KEF LS50? (Assuming you are ok with bright speakers)
Thomas & Stereo
Thank you for the fast reply and opion I will try out the LS50 and also the Elac Uni Fi tower speakers
Great review. Just discovered your channel and it's really informative. Can you tell me which is the speaker behind you during the intro of the video?
Thanks, Spendor S8e
Those foam "bass traps" you have are doing nothing to the low frequencies in your room, absolutely nothing at all. You need dense rockwool or fiber in combination with resonators and diffusion. I am curious to know what other acoustic treatments you have undertaken off camera, as spending 10's of thousands on Amps and Speakers is literally pointless without the right room. Infact arguably, the better the kit you put in the wrong room, the futher away from the original sound you will actually be. You certainly can't make any serious critique of any audio equipment without the right room to listen to it in. It's especially noticable in the low frequencies - if there are modal issues in your room left untreated, these will actually be increased by adding more power and detail into the SPL.
I used curtains on the side + panels too, my room is 30ft + long so no need behind me, and of course carpet below. I don't feel that is bass reverb is an issue. One day, I will have a pro to come in to measure it with test tone. For now, treat the channel as an entertainment channel and not as a serious review channel. Its not my intention to start a review channel. Just sharing my passion.
Like Seas tweeters..RIP your head off..nice review...I like detail and that pin point sound stage..so you are quite correct everyone has there own sound preference...ps..dont like totem and that really round sound...
Thanks, totem is interesting because each of their speaker sound different. Unlike Focal, all their speaker have the same signature for example.
So aré u saying that a run of the mill integrated amp producing 50 wpc will not drive the elac to its full potential and that buyers should go with a more efficient speaker?
Well, not exactly, a 50wpc will not drive a lot of speakers to it's full potential but it does not mean you should not buy them. Let's say you go buy a high efficient speaker and your 50w will bring out it's bass to the max but you hate the sound signature on those speakers, then it would not be the right choice. The point is the Elac has a lot of potential and it's ok to not to be able to drive it to it's max potential.