You saved me a half year of study. Due to the coronacrisis, I had some issues with making the prototype for my graduating project. The manufacturers were all closed, so I had to find another solution. A classmate cut the sheets on the perfect size, and I could bend it with this trick on my room (using a vise and some muscles). Thanks a lot!
It's not surprising that this did well, especially on the first two tools that you demonstrated. Lots of people don't understand the difference between hardness, toughness, and strength; being in the metal business you probably do but maybe haven't thought about it much as relates to thermoplastics. PLA is one of the hardest thermoplastics so its not surprising that it did very well in compressive loading. Likewise, its not surprising that it broke on the gooseneck tool since it has low tensile strength/toughness. Cool video - it will definitely make me think about using 3dp for making dies for one-off runs! Another cool and similar use that comes to mind are rolling and bending dies.
I have my printer setup for polycarbonate since I often need functional parts. Would that be better than PLA? It would probably last more cycles at least. Replying to an old comment I know.
@@paint4pain polycarbonate is superior to PLA I think in every way, IIRC it has a higher hardness and tensile strength. Probably your main consideration at that point is just the cost of different filaments.
@@EdKohlwey Thanks! That's about what I thought, it does cost about 50%-100% more per kilo, print speed is also way slower than PLA and you have to dry it to prevent hydrolysis.
I think that the misconception of PLA strength comes from assuming that its strength is kind of a "von mises" (aka. plastic materials (in the sense of deformation tolerant materials)), but actually is more akin to "mohr coulomb" (brittle materials, as unreinforced concrete, rocks, etc) with good compressive strength but really weak in many ways that other plastics are strong. (I am avoiding to say "brittle material models" vs "plastic material models" because it would introduce noise of definitions)
I work in the 3D printing industry and people are always amazed that FDM printed plastic parts meet or exceed the compression and wear properties of injection molded plastics. Add a little filler in the form of glass or carbon fibers and you have yourself a tool usable for hundreds of cycles. My favorite material I've used is a glass filled PC-ASA that I made myself.
@@albertvillalobos1377 Its true that all reinforcing fibers are abrasive. For high friction/wear zones moly disulphide can be used to improve wear characteristics.
@@TheArtificiallyIntelligent Its melt processed in large batches. Molten plastic heated to temp is added to fillers (fibers with a de-clumping agent and compatibilizer). This is then blended until the fibers are evenly distributed (homogenous). This is then pelletized. The pellets are fed into an extruder. The filament comes hot out of the end of the extruder into a water bath and once cool and dry is wound onto a spool.
OMG this is exactly what I need. I need to bend 2 x 3mm copper busbars so very limited run and have a 3D printer and access to a hydraulic press!!! Thanks for sharing 👍👍👍
When I was working in the fab shop all our dies were of some sort of metal. Today with so many more ways to make things with 3D printing. Just night and day different from the past.
I've used 3D-printed parts as tools for some years and I find it very useful. Sometimes it is a great advantage to cover the tooling part with a sheet metal in order to protect it. ;). For example I've made a tool for creating dust cap rings for old BMW's. A part that is not made anymore. Works as a charm. Thanks for the informational video!
Awesome! Just bought an small arbor press and already was thinking about 3D printing some tools. Your video just showed me that this is no stupid idea. Thanks for sharing!
Cool! Never thought that this would work. I think I wouldn't even have tried. Thanks for sharing this gem and reminding me that I shouldn't be that quick with my assumptions. 🙏❤️
3D printed PLA parts can be very strong and hard wearing when parts are designed right, and take advantage of the material and process. Most people have a low expectation of 3D printing due to so many poor designs that people print, then blame the technology when they fail. Sure there are limits, but when used right there is huge potential. I have made PLA gears that are used in a industrial environment that have surpassed 4 million rotations and tested small parts rated for 50Kg to over 500Kg.
Excellent stuff, I have been doing my own dies, all sorts, from 3D PLA prints. One just has to study/understand the geometry of the part that requires forming, the forming dies and the amount and type of material and density to hold under certain tonnage pressure. It is amazing the level of manufacturing applications that you can take simple PLA 3D prints to, it is a very tough material provided it does not heat up, the wear of the PLA tool comes mainly from heat during the pressing in a press configuration, as the material of the die rubs against the blank creating friction, the cycle of the pressing also has to do with the wear on the tool, if you allow greater time between each pressed part, the tool, the pla material, has more time to cool and regain its original hardness, more continuous presses will eventually generate more heat in the parts and build up to a level that deforms the die shape, ultimately. A fan pointed to the die allows it to remain cool during work cycle and one can actually increase the duty cycle of it. Understanding how this works and more importantly how to control the process, I have saved hundreds of dollars, otherwise, doing my own dies. Check out my custom 3/4" (0.922"OD, 0.842"ID) conduit press to allow the ends to mate with some Maker Pipe connectors more securely. Now it is done with a 3D printed die setup under a 2 ton bench press. It works beyond belief!
whats amazing is the fact that you could bend thinner gauge sheet steel as a "case" for the printed part, which in effect would give you a hardened edge. and use this tool almost indefinitely Plastics really are the future, so to speak.
I use chopped fiber infused nylon to 3d print bottom die inserts. It makes for incredible bending versitility. The nylon reduces marring from the bottom die as well
This summer I did a little run of 40 brackets to hold my solar panels using a 3D printed punch and die from PETG, run on my hydraulic press. The brackets were stainless steel 1" wide, 5" long, and about 0.050" thick, and they took about 1 ton of force when really bottoming out. The punch did deform a bit on the 0.125" radius, but other than that the parts matched the designed shape surprisingly well. I've had worse luck bending compound curves though.
If there are high surface finish requirements when press brake/edge bending, the Swedish product Tribotextil™ can be applied in the pressing/bending tool and mechanically protect the sheet metal from scratches and other damages. Tribotextil™ is an extremely thin and very strong textile that in this process replaces lubricants in the tool and also protects the stamping tools from wear and coatings.
I found this video to be very interesting and informative as I did not know that it is possible to actually print press brake tooling! A Workshop can really benefit from having the capability to make such tooling, especially overnight! Thank you for those helpful links in the description, I'm glad I found and subscribed to your channel.
You could try annealing the pla. I've found it makes it much stronger (and heat resistant). You could also put a copper shim around the contact points to reduce wear without altering the profile by much. Very impressive.
Excellent information, however, SOP for air bending mild steel dictates the width of the vee die be 8x material thickness which results in an inside bend radius of close to the material thickness. (The inside radius is a function of the die width i.e. 1/8 of the die width.) The radius on your punch could be made to correspond which would increase its wear life. I’d suggest you try printing the punch to receive a dowel pin along its bottom edge. Only the very bottom of the pin needs to be exposed. The pin would press into place from the side of the punch.
Been doing this for some time now, and ofc we did test the failure point. PLA is quite good, but the danger is that when it fails it fails explosively. Our test piece was a dimple die, rather small in size, it took 5.5tons before it exploded.
You could design the 3d printed part to just have a removable tip sooo when it is time to change you just change the head or tip and would not have to print the entire thing out every time.
I've already designed some radius attachments that just slide on to existing tooling but there will still be a need to print the entire tool out depending on the part. For example if you need to form a part similar to the part in the very beginning of the video. It already had flanges formed up so the tool needs to have that exact spacing to fit between the two flanges. Normally we would need to grind down existing tool until the part fits. The issue with prototypes is that the flange distance is likely to change and then a different tool would need to be made.
If you were going to make a tool with replaceable tips, it would probably be better to machine the base tool, then with the variable/consumable bits being softer than the base, you would probably never have to recreate the base. If you needed to make things only slightly wider, I would imagine you could probably get away with making the tips slightly wider than the tool as well, before you have issues.
I've driven my car up on 3d printed blocks as well, it's pretty strong. Your one that breaks at 4:25 seems like you can go directly up the offset to reinforce it, along with the more parameters
You showed that press brake with inserted steel plate - that's a neat concept, filling with something stronger in compression than pla. Maybe fill it with concrete and thin 3mm iron rods??
4:26 That, and PLA's tendency to gradually deform under sustained load, are why I avoid PLA for loaded components, instead going for plastics with deforming failure modes (though sudden shocks blow up everything), like PETG and ABS. Though that huge pile of bent metal says a lot about how useful all that rigidity is when parts aren't failing. Thanks for giving me something to think about next time I need a tool.
Wild shit there! Never considered using 3d printed pla dies in the brake. I have used 3d printed nylon for hold downs on the shear to not mark my material.
Tonnage is very much reduced as the bottom die width increases. Or if bottom die width decreases the tonnage increases by a lot. So if your application suits you can always use a larger bottom die so your print doesn't explode.
I've been wanting to do this for some of the more complex shapes of sheet metal on my truck restoration project. Ideal would be scanning then printing the shape needed then stamping the 18-20 gauge parts.
People think that pla is weak. Its not. It just have this fail curve where it does not do much of plastic deformation before failing. But its a strong material.
@@VuLamDang well.... Not that we have continuus carbon fiber or other simillar materials right? I wouldnt go as far as to say that pla is absolutly best from all availble for that. But it is certainly one of the best and probably the best if it comes to standard ones.
@@HidekiShinichi ha ha yes, I was hyperbole. I was refer to the common stuff, ABC, PC, PETG. Idk if PEEK is more or less rigid, although it is certainly not common
Great video. However those were fairly large radius bends. For office furniture we use sharp top and bottom V-dies. The load on such a tooling would be easily 4-5 times that of what you have shown. Nevertheless, you have peaked my interest and I will definitely be trying this - probably with offset dies.
Really cool! There's a lot of possibilities with this technique. For the gooseneck shape, it might be possible to print a watertight "cup" and fill it with a stiffer casting material (epoxy with some additives perhaps).
A more complex metal insert might be interesting to explore (thinking of the gooseneck specifically). You could have one that a variety of 3d printed shapes could fit onto, retaining the flexibility but with perhaps more strength.
I never would have even though to try something like this. I have hydraulic press type of press brake. I am definitely going to have to do some experiments of my own.
This is really cool, thanks for this, I do some manual metal forming at home (usually over steel and wood forms or sandbags ) then beating them out with various hammers, I had been waiting for an oportunity to use my 3D printer to make some forms but I haven't found the need yet, but this is really interesting I hadn't thought of using it in a press like that
if your going to be hammer forming with the dies your probably gonna want to make them out of nylon . Or abs at a minimum...not guite as much tensile strength as pla but much tougher far as impacts go.(if have a decent compressor be sure and test out some homemade hammer heads for an air chisel...your shoulders and hands will love you!)
That would most likely be a waste of time for a prototype or a small job for a part that we might not ever make again. Also, because it is a prototype, it is very likely going to change. The part size could change and/or the inside radius could change and then that tool becomes worthless. If it is a job that will be made over and over again, we would just order a real tool.
If you made the gooseneck tool wider and then beefed it up vertically once it was wide enough for your part it could have worked.. Solution 2 once bent a metal piece say 18 ga. you could leave it on the tool for a load modifier and strengthen it.
I saw a fabricator on instagram, 3d_magic_mike i think it was, using 3d printed parts for tooling and he filled in the inside of the parts with epoxy resin to add strength to the parts. I think he used it to make custom shaped dimple dyes? Impressive stuff non the less! Would love to see if filling in the parts with resin improves the durability!
I see on the broken part you used infill. Can you tell us how many wall layers and infill percentage gave you the best results please. As you have just proved, given the right parameters and layer orientation, 3D prints have better than expected compressive strength. Great demo... thanks.
The tool that broke was 8 perimeters, 20% infill, 6 top/bottom layers. The first two tools were also printed like that and didn't but the forces were a bit easier to handle. The gooseneck tool that didn't break was 12 perimeters, 20% infill, 8 top/bottom layers. You could go 100% infill and it would probably bend even thicker steel but I would stick to at least 12 perimeters, 20% infill as a minimum starting point if you want to try to make your own tools.
@@ProtoG42 You don't need to go higher than 60%.. 100% infill makes the part shatter easily.. there is no flex.. you need a bit of flex at least.. 60% is a lot when you look at the density.. 3D infills also help with lateral forces.. Prusa Slicer has cubic that works wonders in all directions.. i'm an amateur anyways, but have tested a few things myself..
Holy bat crud, that is impressive. I ran a brake for a few years. We made and heat treated a LOT of our own stuff. Even if you just were prototyping the tool (not the part) to make sure you had it right, this would be a great thing. If you can get say 500 parts out of one, it might make it more cost effective to just use printed instead of steel(tool steel is expensive and finicky. I saw another video where a guy made his own license plates (apparently you can easily buy blanks) with a top and bottom die made out of aluminum. I wonder if you could just print it, support the top and bottom with a metal back plate, and press the license plate that way?
Bending a 1" wide section of 10 gauge steel with a 1" V die requires 1580lbs. I'd rather keep going thicker than waste 12 times as much metal and plastic. The values obtained with the smaller forming tools allows me to calculate how wide of a flange I can form given a specific material and thickness.
What if you print a honey comb infill then drill a hole in the top and inject it with hard set liquid rubber then you might be able to use the gooseneck one
It will definitely work, I would just put the bottom v die inside a steel tool holder that has walls on all sides. This would allow smaller printed tools without worrying about the v splitting.
I'm always telling people to stop underestimating PLA... but even I was surprised by how some of these parts performed for the thicker steel. That said there is still options like more infill, OR using something stronger like PC, or carbon filled Nylon.
Super late comment... but the goose tool, could you "insert" a metal rod "soul" so that takes all the efforts and your tool doesn't bend? Great video btw
The "Goose-neck" tool would hold up if you added more infill, at the cost of material cost and print time. Really nice to see 3d printing used for more than novelty items.
For skilled people in manufacturing, 3D printing feels like a natural and well needed extension of our abilities. 3D printing is for everyone but it really shines in our hands, unfortunately the industry has been fogged up and not given the respect it deserves due to the likes of 3D printing nerd and anything making benchies. Since the Stone Age we’ve needed one tool to form a specific shape until now, that’s the power or additive, it re-writes our entire rule book.
@@albertvillalobos1377 completely agree. The amount of toys and crap that are printed are astounding. As a CNC machinist and gunsmith, I have tons of useful jobs for mine that's coming in the next couple of days.
It looks like you're using the default 0.4mm nozzle - it'd be very interesting to see if a 0.8 or even 1mm nozzle /line width would significantly improve strength. It would certainly improve print time!
Have you tried annealing the PLA parts once printed? They say makes it stronger and more heat resistant. Some of the wear you noticed can be heat related as metal warms when bending it.
@@GroovyDrifter I did consider annealing but after doing some research, I'm not sure I want to deal with the the shrinkage that occurs as a result. I could use a thin rubber film that we normally use to reduce the tool marks caused by regular tooling to increase the lifespan of the printed tools.
Meanwhile our maintenance workers hate 3D printing, because everything is brittle and can't withstand even small load. It's impossible to explain them it's not problem of 3D printer, but problem of guy who designed huge parts with bridges (with no supports) and with screw holes situated worst way possible - so if you turn a screw just a little, it will force layers away :/
I think I will really print out my version of same thing, consisting of five separate pieces (one model printed four times + one model to hold two sets apart at exact distance) and give it to maintenance guys. It's so simple it can be printed even at high speeds with no problem, there are no overlaps and layers are situated correct way, so threaded rod which holds everything together shouldn't break it even when they tighten it too much.
Pla shouldn’t really be used for industrial applications, these guys got lucky because it’s a one time thing, but it’s better to reserve pla for artsy projects
@@albertvillalobos1377 Sorry, you are mistaken. Experts in the field are also using PLA for this application: www.thefabricator.com/additivereport/article/additive/need-a-custom-press-brake-tool-try-printing-it
We use it just as holder for bearings, result is practically XY positioning "table" out of smooth rods. In center are attached 3D printed parts to direct air from compressor into proper direction and they are moved in circular direction. There's practically no load, just weight of smooth rods, some thin aluminium frame and those 3D printed parts to direct air. But that's not important when holder breaks after slightly pressing one screw in hole.
Got a small hobby press brake in my shop, thank you for the great idea!! Have you posted the CAD/STL files for these anywhere? I am not 100% sure, but these might work in my press, and would save me having to CAD them myself :)
Metal reinforcing inserts, THAT was interesting. I suspect it wouldn't materially improve the tool's lifespan - the working surface is still plastic and is going to wear at the same rate - though it might give it greater strength for thicker material.
This is incredibly interesting for me. I want to press some metal into a shape for a sunroof drain, on a classic beetle. I wonder if I can do something like this to make it work.
Brilliant video! Very interesting! I am currently working on my Facade Engineering degree thesis and I am looking into the subject of using 3D Printed tools. Is there a way I can connect with you and pick your brains on the topic? Much appreciated! Keep up the great work!
What hardness was the steel you used? We use a variety of different materials from 301 1/2 hard steel to 2024 t3 aluminium in aviation and making tooling like this would speed up part fabrication considerably. Thanks
The gooseneck offset would be better with more infill but the other 2 tools in the video wouldn't benefit from more infill. 12 perimeters at 20% infill seems to be a great setup for non offset tooling.
Perhaps a better solution would be to laminate your tooling in say 3mm mild steel. You have a laser right there! I would be quicker, stronger and longer lasting, Put a hole in the laminations and run a piece of all-thread through the stack or you could put a notch in the edge and weld them. It's got me out of a hole before now. :-)
For sure, we already do that. Even for the radius tool, we would normally cut bar stock, turn down rod stock to the right diameter, cut them to size, and weld them together. This is just another tool in the holster to take advantage of. Read the articles I posted above and you'll see some of the other use cases.
Hmmm, but what are you using for the female side of the die? Doesn't that really have to be custom for the bends you need as well? It looks like you used metal for that - and you would expect much more wear on that side because of the sliding contact between the metal and the points of the female side.
The bottom die is less important unless you are coining which involves forcing the metal to take the shape of the bottom and top tool. All the bending in this video is referred to as air bending and the radius of the bottom die does not affect the part. For air bending, only the bottom opening affects the part. Most custom tools we need are the top forming tool. For most jobs, the bottom tool just needs to be wide enough such that it doesn't interfere with the forming. You want to use a bottom V-die opening of around 6-8 times the material thickness. You can cheat and use a smaller die, but generally we try to avoid that. For example, if you want to form a 0.25" flange on a part, you can't expect to use a bottom V-die with an opening of 0.75" as the flange will not be supported at both ends. Also, the top tool is more commonly the tool that needs to be as close to the width of the flange as possible and in the beginning case, the tool needs to fit between two other flanges that were already formed. I could have used any length section of bottom tooling and it would have worked. The other parameter that is always affected by both the top and the bottom tool is the amount of stretch that needs to be built into the flat pattern. Bending a 2 inch long strip of metal exactly in the center will not produce two 1 inch flanges. The length of the flat pattern will vary depending on the tooling used.
You saved me a half year of study. Due to the coronacrisis, I had some issues with making the prototype for my graduating project. The manufacturers were all closed, so I had to find another solution. A classmate cut the sheets on the perfect size, and I could bend it with this trick on my room (using a vise and some muscles). Thanks a lot!
Wow, I wasn't expecting that. That seems like a real game changer for small custom jobs.
I really didn't expect the tools to perform as well as they did either.
It's not surprising that this did well, especially on the first two tools that you demonstrated. Lots of people don't understand the difference between hardness, toughness, and strength; being in the metal business you probably do but maybe haven't thought about it much as relates to thermoplastics. PLA is one of the hardest thermoplastics so its not surprising that it did very well in compressive loading. Likewise, its not surprising that it broke on the gooseneck tool since it has low tensile strength/toughness.
Cool video - it will definitely make me think about using 3dp for making dies for one-off runs! Another cool and similar use that comes to mind are rolling and bending dies.
I have my printer setup for polycarbonate since I often need functional parts. Would that be better than PLA? It would probably last more cycles at least. Replying to an old comment I know.
@@paint4pain polycarbonate is superior to PLA I think in every way, IIRC it has a higher hardness and tensile strength. Probably your main consideration at that point is just the cost of different filaments.
@@EdKohlwey Thanks! That's about what I thought, it does cost about 50%-100% more per kilo, print speed is also way slower than PLA and you have to dry it to prevent hydrolysis.
I think that the misconception of PLA strength comes from assuming that its strength is kind of a "von mises" (aka. plastic materials (in the sense of deformation tolerant materials)), but actually is more akin to "mohr coulomb" (brittle materials, as unreinforced concrete, rocks, etc) with good compressive strength but really weak in many ways that other plastics are strong.
(I am avoiding to say "brittle material models" vs "plastic material models" because it would introduce noise of definitions)
I work in the 3D printing industry and people are always amazed that FDM printed plastic parts meet or exceed the compression and wear properties of injection molded plastics. Add a little filler in the form of glass or carbon fibers and you have yourself a tool usable for hundreds of cycles. My favorite material I've used is a glass filled PC-ASA that I made myself.
Not sure about glass but the negative for carbon fiber is it becomes abrasive so not for mating parts
@@albertvillalobos1377 Its true that all reinforcing fibers are abrasive. For high friction/wear zones moly disulphide can be used to improve wear characteristics.
How is the filler added? I've never done 3d printing.
@@TheArtificiallyIntelligent Its melt processed in large batches. Molten plastic heated to temp is added to fillers (fibers with a de-clumping agent and compatibilizer). This is then blended until the fibers are evenly distributed (homogenous). This is then pelletized. The pellets are fed into an extruder. The filament comes hot out of the end of the extruder into a water bath and once cool and dry is wound onto a spool.
Hi Zach!
5:36
When you want to reach smithing 100 and you need to make a thousand daggers
OMG this is exactly what I need. I need to bend 2 x 3mm copper busbars so very limited run and have a 3D printer and access to a hydraulic press!!! Thanks for sharing 👍👍👍
Impressive. I figured it would be great for thin stock custom bends, but didn't expect it to tolerate such thick steel.
When I was working in the fab shop all our dies were of some sort of metal. Today with so many more ways to make things with 3D printing. Just night and day different from the past.
Perfect Timing! Just bought a press brake and was looking to make some tooling on my printer! Cant wait to try it! Im amazed at how well they perform!
I've used 3D-printed parts as tools for some years and I find it very useful. Sometimes it is a great advantage to cover the tooling part with a sheet metal in order to protect it. ;). For example I've made a tool for creating dust cap rings for old BMW's. A part that is not made anymore. Works as a charm. Thanks for the informational video!
I agree, printing the part slightly smaller and then attaching the first bent sheet to the part would massively improve life span.
Awesome!
Just bought an small arbor press and already was thinking about 3D printing some tools. Your video just showed me that this is no stupid idea.
Thanks for sharing!
3D printing specialized tools for a fab shop is definitely a game changer
Cool! Never thought that this would work. I think I wouldn't even have tried. Thanks for sharing this gem and reminding me that I shouldn't be that quick with my assumptions. 🙏❤️
Thanks for watching!
You just got to up your youtubing skills, there’s been videos on this for a couple years now
@@albertvillalobos1377 Please point me to a video bending steel this thick as I have not seen it.
3D printed PLA parts can be very strong and hard wearing when parts are designed right, and take advantage of the material and process. Most people have a low expectation of 3D printing due to so many poor designs that people print, then blame the technology when they fail. Sure there are limits, but when used right there is huge potential. I have made PLA gears that are used in a industrial environment that have surpassed 4 million rotations and tested small parts rated for 50Kg to over 500Kg.
Excellent stuff, I have been doing my own dies, all sorts, from 3D PLA prints. One just has to study/understand the geometry of the part that requires forming, the forming dies and the amount and type of material and density to hold under certain tonnage pressure. It is amazing the level of manufacturing applications that you can take simple PLA 3D prints to, it is a very tough material provided it does not heat up, the wear of the PLA tool comes mainly from heat during the pressing in a press configuration, as the material of the die rubs against the blank creating friction, the cycle of the pressing also has to do with the wear on the tool, if you allow greater time between each pressed part, the tool, the pla material, has more time to cool and regain its original hardness, more continuous presses will eventually generate more heat in the parts and build up to a level that deforms the die shape, ultimately. A fan pointed to the die allows it to remain cool during work cycle and one can actually increase the duty cycle of it. Understanding how this works and more importantly how to control the process, I have saved hundreds of dollars, otherwise, doing my own dies. Check out my custom 3/4" (0.922"OD, 0.842"ID) conduit press to allow the ends to mate with some Maker Pipe connectors more securely. Now it is done with a 3D printed die setup under a 2 ton bench press. It works beyond belief!
whats amazing is the fact that you could bend thinner gauge sheet steel as a "case" for the printed part, which in effect would give you a hardened edge. and use this tool almost indefinitely Plastics really are the future, so to speak.
I use chopped fiber infused nylon to 3d print bottom die inserts. It makes for incredible bending versitility. The nylon reduces marring from the bottom die as well
very cool. i never would have thought pla would work for this
Your shop is always neat to see.
I might start doing more videos in the shop to try to balance the electronics vs mechanical videos.
This summer I did a little run of 40 brackets to hold my solar panels using a 3D printed punch and die from PETG, run on my hydraulic press. The brackets were stainless steel 1" wide, 5" long, and about 0.050" thick, and they took about 1 ton of force when really bottoming out. The punch did deform a bit on the 0.125" radius, but other than that the parts matched the designed shape surprisingly well. I've had worse luck bending compound curves though.
If there are high surface finish requirements when press brake/edge bending, the Swedish product Tribotextil™ can be applied in the pressing/bending tool and mechanically protect the sheet metal from scratches and other damages. Tribotextil™ is an extremely thin and very strong textile that in this process replaces lubricants in the tool and also protects the stamping tools from wear and coatings.
it looks impressive and 3d printed in PLA ,i whould never think it can stand against a steel
Well, it was definitely a learning experience watching this video. Who would have thought it possible.
I found this video to be very interesting and informative as I did not know that it is possible to actually print press brake tooling!
A Workshop can really benefit from having the capability to make such tooling, especially overnight!
Thank you for those helpful links in the description, I'm glad I found and subscribed to your channel.
You could try annealing the pla. I've found it makes it much stronger (and heat resistant). You could also put a copper shim around the contact points to reduce wear without altering the profile by much. Very impressive.
Never thought this would be possible ! That give me a way of possibilities to create.... Thanks you so much for this test !
Excellent information, however, SOP for air bending mild steel dictates the width of the vee die be 8x material thickness which results in an inside bend radius of close to the material thickness. (The inside radius is a function of the die width i.e. 1/8 of the die width.) The radius on your punch could be made to correspond which would increase its wear life. I’d suggest you try printing the punch to receive a dowel pin along its bottom edge. Only the very bottom of the pin needs to be exposed. The pin would press into place from the side of the punch.
Been doing this for some time now, and ofc we did test the failure point.
PLA is quite good, but the danger is that when it fails it fails explosively.
Our test piece was a dimple die, rather small in size, it took 5.5tons before it exploded.
That's pretty impressive!
You could design the 3d printed part to just have a removable tip sooo when it is time to change you just change the head or tip and would not have to print the entire thing out every time.
I've already designed some radius attachments that just slide on to existing tooling but there will still be a need to print the entire tool out depending on the part. For example if you need to form a part similar to the part in the very beginning of the video. It already had flanges formed up so the tool needs to have that exact spacing to fit between the two flanges. Normally we would need to grind down existing tool until the part fits. The issue with prototypes is that the flange distance is likely to change and then a different tool would need to be made.
If you were going to make a tool with replaceable tips, it would probably be better to machine the base tool, then with the variable/consumable bits being softer than the base, you would probably never have to recreate the base.
If you needed to make things only slightly wider, I would imagine you could probably get away with making the tips slightly wider than the tool as well, before you have issues.
I've driven my car up on 3d printed blocks as well, it's pretty strong. Your one that breaks at 4:25 seems like you can go directly up the offset to reinforce it, along with the more parameters
That cutout in the tool is for having multiple bends in a small part, so the 1nd bend doesnt hit the tool when you bend the 2nd
working in a workshop like that would be my dream job!
4:38 not sure you mentioned infill % here but increasing % to 80-100% will certainly strengthen this part (in my experience)
You showed that press brake with inserted steel plate - that's a neat concept, filling with something stronger in compression than pla. Maybe fill it with concrete and thin 3mm iron rods??
4:26 That, and PLA's tendency to gradually deform under sustained load, are why I avoid PLA for loaded components, instead going for plastics with deforming failure modes (though sudden shocks blow up everything), like PETG and ABS. Though that huge pile of bent metal says a lot about how useful all that rigidity is when parts aren't failing. Thanks for giving me something to think about next time I need a tool.
This is great. I’m planning a similar project.
Wild shit there! Never considered using 3d printed pla dies in the brake. I have used 3d printed nylon for hold downs on the shear to not mark my material.
I have even designed custom printed back gauges for the press brake when you have a strange profile that you need to register off of.
Tonnage is very much reduced as the bottom die width increases. Or if bottom die width decreases the tonnage increases by a lot. So if your application suits you can always use a larger bottom die so your print doesn't explode.
I've been wanting to do this for some of the more complex shapes of sheet metal on my truck restoration project. Ideal would be scanning then printing the shape needed then stamping the 18-20 gauge parts.
Impressive for being just PLA. I see people using PC filament for this kind of tool making, looks like PC is not always needed.
PLA is great when the characteristic you need is rigidity.
People think that pla is weak. Its not. It just have this fail curve where it does not do much of plastic deformation before failing. But its a strong material.
@@HidekiShinichi PLA is rigid (and brittle) af. if you need dimensional stability (unbending, unyielding), PLA win all other 3D printing materials
@@VuLamDang well.... Not that we have continuus carbon fiber or other simillar materials right?
I wouldnt go as far as to say that pla is absolutly best from all availble for that. But it is certainly one of the best and probably the best if it comes to standard ones.
@@HidekiShinichi ha ha yes, I was hyperbole. I was refer to the common stuff, ABC, PC, PETG. Idk if PEEK is more or less rigid, although it is certainly not common
I have been searching for this, thank you
Great video. However those were fairly large radius bends. For office furniture we use sharp top and bottom V-dies.
The load on such a tooling would be easily 4-5 times that of what you have shown.
Nevertheless, you have peaked my interest and I will definitely be trying this - probably with offset dies.
Really cool! There's a lot of possibilities with this technique. For the gooseneck shape, it might be possible to print a watertight "cup" and fill it with a stiffer casting material (epoxy with some additives perhaps).
Wow never would have thought itd be strong enough
A more complex metal insert might be interesting to explore (thinking of the gooseneck specifically). You could have one that a variety of 3d printed shapes could fit onto, retaining the flexibility but with perhaps more strength.
Great idea for light sheet metal. Could make some impressive objects.
I never would have even though to try something like this. I have hydraulic press type of press brake. I am definitely going to have to do some experiments of my own.
Another video I watched said their print specs are 3mm wall thickness with a 40% infill.
Experiment with the infill patterns, and analyze the loads. It would be great for short runs, and rapid prototyping, not to mention saving $$$$
This is really cool, thanks for this, I do some manual metal forming at home (usually over steel and wood forms or sandbags ) then beating them out with various hammers, I had been waiting for an oportunity to use my 3D printer to make some forms but I haven't found the need yet, but this is really interesting I hadn't thought of using it in a press like that
if your going to be hammer forming with the dies your probably gonna want to make them out of nylon . Or abs at a minimum...not guite as much tensile strength as pla but much tougher far as impacts go.(if have a decent compressor be sure and test out some homemade hammer heads for an air chisel...your shoulders and hands will love you!)
Quite amazing. Why wouldn't you make a silicone mold out of the 3d printed tool and then use a stronger material?
That would most likely be a waste of time for a prototype or a small job for a part that we might not ever make again. Also, because it is a prototype, it is very likely going to change. The part size could change and/or the inside radius could change and then that tool becomes worthless. If it is a job that will be made over and over again, we would just order a real tool.
You could make a metal shell in the bend corner ti minimze the wear
If you made the gooseneck tool wider and then beefed it up vertically once it was wide enough for your part it could have worked.. Solution 2 once bent a metal piece say 18 ga. you could leave it on the tool for a load modifier and strengthen it.
I saw a fabricator on instagram, 3d_magic_mike i think it was, using 3d printed parts for tooling and he filled in the inside of the parts with epoxy resin to add strength to the parts. I think he used it to make custom shaped dimple dyes? Impressive stuff non the less! Would love to see if filling in the parts with resin improves the durability!
I see on the broken part you used infill. Can you tell us how many wall layers and infill percentage gave you the best results please. As you have just proved, given the right parameters and layer orientation, 3D prints have better than expected compressive strength. Great demo... thanks.
The tool that broke was 8 perimeters, 20% infill, 6 top/bottom layers. The first two tools were also printed like that and didn't but the forces were a bit easier to handle. The gooseneck tool that didn't break was 12 perimeters, 20% infill, 8 top/bottom layers. You could go 100% infill and it would probably bend even thicker steel but I would stick to at least 12 perimeters, 20% infill as a minimum starting point if you want to try to make your own tools.
@@ProtoG42 Thank you. Indeed, perimeters are more important than infill, at least in my tests.
@@ProtoG42 You don't need to go higher than 60%.. 100% infill makes the part shatter easily.. there is no flex.. you need a bit of flex at least.. 60% is a lot when you look at the density.. 3D infills also help with lateral forces.. Prusa Slicer has cubic that works wonders in all directions.. i'm an amateur anyways, but have tested a few things myself..
Hola muy buena demostración el plástico aguanta mucho. Gracias por compartir tu experiencia. Ya me suscribí y te mando Saludos desde Argentina.
¡Muchas gracias Gustavo!
Thank you very much! Serious test with valuable links to improve our understanding. Love it! Have a merry Xmas and a happy new year!
Holy bat crud, that is impressive. I ran a brake for a few years. We made and heat treated a LOT of our own stuff. Even if you just were prototyping the tool (not the part) to make sure you had it right, this would be a great thing. If you can get say 500 parts out of one, it might make it more cost effective to just use printed instead of steel(tool steel is expensive and finicky. I saw another video where a guy made his own license plates (apparently you can easily buy blanks) with a top and bottom die made out of aluminum. I wonder if you could just print it, support the top and bottom with a metal back plate, and press the license plate that way?
I totally agree! I will definitely try embossing sheet metal with this process and other types of forming.
pretty great for pla with fill
This is awesome.....Could you try a symetrical die over a longer length? Say up to 1ft? 1" pieces don't exactly take a lot of tonnage....
Bending a 1" wide section of 10 gauge steel with a 1" V die requires 1580lbs. I'd rather keep going thicker than waste 12 times as much metal and plastic. The values obtained with the smaller forming tools allows me to calculate how wide of a flange I can form given a specific material and thickness.
@@ProtoG42 so keep going thicker man!!! I'm interested to see where this goes!! Lol 🍻
That punch sure broke safely. I would ad that to the advantages. over stressing printed punches won't send dangerous shrapnel through the shop
What if you print a honey comb infill then drill a hole in the top and inject it with hard set liquid rubber then you might be able to use the gooseneck one
This is awesome! I wonder if you could print the lower tool (anvil?) as well? I would think that would need to be a bit stronger due to the shape.
It will definitely work, I would just put the bottom v die inside a steel tool holder that has walls on all sides. This would allow smaller printed tools without worrying about the v splitting.
I'm always telling people to stop underestimating PLA... but even I was surprised by how some of these parts performed for the thicker steel. That said there is still options like more infill, OR using something stronger like PC, or carbon filled Nylon.
Great video, very surprising results!
Thanks Peter!
Very interesting, thanks for posting!
you should test the gooseneck with 100% infill and petg so it would be more durable
Super late comment... but the goose tool, could you "insert" a metal rod "soul" so that takes all the efforts and your tool doesn't bend?
Great video btw
The "Goose-neck" tool would hold up if you added more infill, at the cost of material cost and print time. Really nice to see 3d printing used for more than novelty items.
For skilled people in manufacturing, 3D printing feels like a natural and well needed extension of our abilities. 3D printing is for everyone but it really shines in our hands, unfortunately the industry has been fogged up and not given the respect it deserves due to the likes of 3D printing nerd and anything making benchies. Since the Stone Age we’ve needed one tool to form a specific shape until now, that’s the power or additive, it re-writes our entire rule book.
@@albertvillalobos1377 completely agree. The amount of toys and crap that are printed are astounding. As a CNC machinist and gunsmith, I have tons of useful jobs for mine that's coming in the next couple of days.
Now i wanna know how abs, petg,or even carbon fiber filament will hold
Try 3D&CNC service at PCBWay
www.pcbway.com/rapid-prototyping/
It looks like you're using the default 0.4mm nozzle - it'd be very interesting to see if a 0.8 or even 1mm nozzle /line width would significantly improve strength. It would certainly improve print time!
Have you tried annealing the PLA parts once printed? They say makes it stronger and more heat resistant. Some of the wear you noticed can be heat related as metal warms when bending it.
@@GroovyDrifter I did consider annealing but after doing some research, I'm not sure I want to deal with the the shrinkage that occurs as a result. I could use a thin rubber film that we normally use to reduce the tool marks caused by regular tooling to increase the lifespan of the printed tools.
@@UnreasonableSteve CNC Kitchen has a good video showing layer heights larger than 0.2mm actually get weaker. th-cam.com/video/fbSQvJJjw2Q/w-d-xo.html
@@UnreasonableSteve a much larger nozzle like you suggested may make a difference though
And this is 20% infill...
Meanwhile our maintenance workers hate 3D printing, because everything is brittle and can't withstand even small load. It's impossible to explain them it's not problem of 3D printer, but problem of guy who designed huge parts with bridges (with no supports) and with screw holes situated worst way possible - so if you turn a screw just a little, it will force layers away :/
I think I will really print out my version of same thing, consisting of five separate pieces (one model printed four times + one model to hold two sets apart at exact distance) and give it to maintenance guys. It's so simple it can be printed even at high speeds with no problem, there are no overlaps and layers are situated correct way, so threaded rod which holds everything together shouldn't break it even when they tighten it too much.
Pla shouldn’t really be used for industrial applications, these guys got lucky because it’s a one time thing, but it’s better to reserve pla for artsy projects
@@albertvillalobos1377 Sorry, you are mistaken. Experts in the field are also using PLA for this application: www.thefabricator.com/additivereport/article/additive/need-a-custom-press-brake-tool-try-printing-it
We use it just as holder for bearings, result is practically XY positioning "table" out of smooth rods. In center are attached 3D printed parts to direct air from compressor into proper direction and they are moved in circular direction. There's practically no load, just weight of smooth rods, some thin aluminium frame and those 3D printed parts to direct air. But that's not important when holder breaks after slightly pressing one screw in hole.
Have them try out Markforged, you can get crazy strength from 3D printed tooling
What about angles? What about smaller radius? R1mm? What about lower tool with smaller V? V8?
Got a small hobby press brake in my shop, thank you for the great idea!! Have you posted the CAD/STL files for these anywhere? I am not 100% sure, but these might work in my press, and would save me having to CAD them myself :)
Nice work!
For parts like that though, a Hare press is much, much faster. I'll have to try printing some for that!
Metal reinforcing inserts, THAT was interesting. I suspect it wouldn't materially improve the tool's lifespan - the working surface is still plastic and is going to wear at the same rate - though it might give it greater strength for thicker material.
I cant believe is bends 10 gauge. Stainless is all we use at work. Can you try stainless?
It bends that samples but are bent right? half of that sample doesn't look like 90deg. And the radius looks also very big.
Great work
Very interesting. I do wonder how pla+ would have faired?
Great content!
Great video, thank you!
Thanks for rhe info. Fascinating
Try 3d printing metal using markforged printers.
This is incredibly interesting for me. I want to press some metal into a shape for a sunroof drain, on a classic beetle. I wonder if I can do something like this to make it work.
have you tried printing the other part , where it holds the materials , like the base using 3d printed ?
Nice machinery!
Do you have a link to your stl? Would like to try some
Very impressive.
Brilliant video! Very interesting! I am currently working on my Facade Engineering degree thesis and I am looking into the subject of using 3D Printed tools. Is there a way I can connect with you and pick your brains on the topic? Much appreciated! Keep up the great work!
0:26 *the witness intensifies*
What hardness was the steel you used? We use a variety of different materials from 301 1/2 hard steel to 2024 t3 aluminium in aviation and making tooling like this would speed up part fabrication considerably. Thanks
Blown away!
Impressive. Thank you!
Thanks for watching!
This is a very useful video
6:04 well that was a fast lunch
Wonder how much better it would be with 100% infill, especially for the offset tool that broke?
The gooseneck offset would be better with more infill but the other 2 tools in the video wouldn't benefit from more infill. 12 perimeters at 20% infill seems to be a great setup for non offset tooling.
Gadzooks.. 10 guage steel?! My maker brain is turning over considering the steel shapes I can make with a manual vise.
Perhaps a better solution would be to laminate your tooling in say 3mm mild steel. You have a laser right there! I would be quicker, stronger and longer lasting, Put a hole in the laminations and run a piece of all-thread through the stack or you could put a notch in the edge and weld them. It's got me out of a hole before now. :-)
For sure, we already do that. Even for the radius tool, we would normally cut bar stock, turn down rod stock to the right diameter, cut them to size, and weld them together. This is just another tool in the holster to take advantage of. Read the articles I posted above and you'll see some of the other use cases.
Hmmm, but what are you using for the female side of the die? Doesn't that really have to be custom for the bends you need as well? It looks like you used metal for that - and you would expect much more wear on that side because of the sliding contact between the metal and the points of the female side.
The bottom die is less important unless you are coining which involves forcing the metal to take the shape of the bottom and top tool. All the bending in this video is referred to as air bending and the radius of the bottom die does not affect the part. For air bending, only the bottom opening affects the part. Most custom tools we need are the top forming tool. For most jobs, the bottom tool just needs to be wide enough such that it doesn't interfere with the forming. You want to use a bottom V-die opening of around 6-8 times the material thickness. You can cheat and use a smaller die, but generally we try to avoid that. For example, if you want to form a 0.25" flange on a part, you can't expect to use a bottom V-die with an opening of 0.75" as the flange will not be supported at both ends. Also, the top tool is more commonly the tool that needs to be as close to the width of the flange as possible and in the beginning case, the tool needs to fit between two other flanges that were already formed. I could have used any length section of bottom tooling and it would have worked. The other parameter that is always affected by both the top and the bottom tool is the amount of stretch that needs to be built into the flat pattern. Bending a 2 inch long strip of metal exactly in the center will not produce two 1 inch flanges. The length of the flat pattern will vary depending on the tooling used.