Small Corrections: The CEE socket can supply 11kW. I wanted to keep it simple and keep the sqrt out of there but that just messed everything up. And secondly the power required by the relay is not around 60W. Maybe something around 20W. I mixed up some values in the datasheet. Sorry.
No, it will not consume 20W. Read the specifications. Operating consumption is listed as 5.75W. Which, assuming 0.20€ per kWh, would be about 10 euros per year. The "around 20W" you probably have in mind is the "power loss under IN" where I stands for current and N stands for nominal. And the rated current for these ESC463/464 is 63A. So, when you're pulling the rated current through this contactor, that's the amount of power lost inside the contactor if you were to pull the maximum (44kW) amount of power through it. This power loss is insignificant in comparison to the power pulled through the contactor.
My Dad would have loved this. His mains connections boxes were works of art - everything super neat and ordered, and he'd leave extensive notes for the next electrician. He did wiring for new houses, rewiring for older houses (climbing through roofs was awful in the Australian heat, I don't know how he did it), 3 phase workshop and factory installations, and he worked for a long time on the huge pumps that drove the water supplies. I think he would appreciate the attention to detail here.
As someone who lives in and is from the USA this makes our electrical system look and feel ancient. I really wish the us would adopt things such as the metric system and electrical system like those in Germany.
Yes but THE WHOLE WORLD knows that the quality and technology levels in the US are FAR FAR behind the rest of the world. I mean you guys STILL BUY CHRYSLERS ffs...
I love how the distribution board ended up looking. The surface mounted plastic ducts for the conductors looks so nice. Nice touch of german attention to detail design.
Just so you know, the power consumption of your contactor is actually 5.75W, the 62.5W figure you mentioned is the in-rush power (when it first energises) but it only draws that for a fraction of a second. So you'll only use 0.14kW per day if you left it permanently energised.
That’s calculated the same as the rating on my 6hp vacuum. That’s 4.4kw with 100% efficiency when the circuit is 15A@120V is not even capable of anything past 3.6kW and is against code to continuously supply more than 2.9.
Im glad you said this, when I heard 63w, i was like wtf that doesnt sound like any relay Ive used, you would need a dam heat sink on that relay at a constant 63w.
I love to see a European electrical installation on youtube for once. I think this shows many other people the way how it's done over in Europe as I don't think many know how different it is. Great video and great work on your electrical installation. It looks very clean, the way I like it :) Keep up the great video's man!
wiki: "Elektrotechnische verdeelinrichting", that's how it's done in the Netherlands. the Dutch super seed the Germans. extreme in some cases, as the dutch have a international recognized elektro testing brand: Kema Keur. al wires through the walls are in tubes, junction boxes, easy to extent on a later date. a higher grade than Germany.
@@Rein-hg9in some are, if the house is old. also depends if the house is owned or rented. But in general it's better executed than other countries using tubes in the walls. i did some electrical technical work in Belgium, the Belgs are extreme to, where it's obligated to have the blue/brown wire on a certain pin of the socket. : ) the NEN1010 is the electro technical law. i had to write/copy entire sections on paper when i was at school. the house i live in 30 years old and has additional free tubes in the walls to extend or add things, even having a pull wire in them. But it also depends on who did the installation, not all are honest and are just interested in making money, but i have worked for some that toke it very serious and delivered extreme quality, also the company who gave the assignment could be someone that doesn't care, as long as it works.
Its not that rare to see how non-NorAm installations are done. For the record though, even being part German myself and having served in W. Germany, I think it look particularly fugly. Technically, its great, but just looks butt ugly. Having the garage be concrete though is a nice burn-proof idea though. If it were my project, and thinking about it for all of 2 minutes, I'd run those chases at the wall ceiling, and drop them half-way down the wall where I wanted each outlet. Any tool I've ever used comes with at least a 2 meter cord, and when working at the bench there is invariably 3-4' of excess cord in the way. High outlets allow you to push table top equipment to the wall, and could run tool storage on the wall between the outlet drops.
A lot of countries just use the US electrical system, and i personally think it sucks in every way. They don't have rcd (a gfci won't save you in any other part of the circuit); they use 110v, they need more amps and still get lower power; with 2 phase for 220v, how do they run tri phase electric motors?; They use metal conduits and electric boxes (in a wooden house, that's just asking for a fire to happen); the breakers only cut the live, not the neutral (at least for individual circuits); they use wire nuts (with the higher amps, the worst you can do is increase resistance); and the plugs are unsafe. I don't know of any worse system than that, my country uses the austalian system (or very close to it), and the only thing that i'm not sure if it improves on, is the wire nuts (generally, we use plugs or switches to conect wires together, if it's not posible, we twist them together, and they contact each other way more than in the video showing wire nuts vs wago, i'd still import wago conectors if i was starting a new domestic install for my own house)
If you want to carry long heavy objects by yourself easier just mount a couple of wheels on a piece of plywood and line the other side with some non scratching material like leftover soft carpet. Put one side of your heavy objects on the plywood and carry the other side. You'd be surprised how much easier it is then :)
What a time to be alive where you can just order a concrete box and have an instant garage. They even have house kits where they'll just crane the pieces into place and done. The fact that it has a pre-installed window in that concrete box is the cherry on top. For that matter, they do have some companies that are experimenting with 3D printing concrete houses, and even putting insulation in the walls. I know they had house kits in the 1800's, but for the longest time such things were niche, now it's so much easier and more accessible.
@@jimurrata6785 Well, I would guess that - because the roof is "integrated" in the garage itself - which means that the roof is formed by just the roof plate being lowered maybe 3 inces below the top ends of the wall, forming kind of a "tub", it's jsut the easiest way to drain the roof. Thus, it gives you the possibility to stack the garages just wall to wall (no matter if sidewall or backwall) to form "garage yards" (also common in residential areas here) without the need for spacing.
@@mdk-wc2sw 🤔 I understand now how locating it inside would be advantageous. I wasn't thinking about stacking them tight, perhaps because this one is shown out in the open. Thanks for your reply!
For electronic bench wiring in the USA the approach is a little different, which in the USA is NEC (electric code) dependent but also the installation is considered specialized, meaning it falls more under industrial than residential. For electronic / electrical bench design, the goal is to have all of the wiring encased (surrounded) by metal. So from the drop to the breaker panel to the outlets you will see either EMT (electrical metallic tubing) or RMC (Rigid Metal Conduit which is threaded pipe). I like RMC but it is harder to cut and bend than EMT and you have to thread it. RMC threaded connections are sealed using copper based sealant to prevent water intrusion but also maintain a good electrical connection. The conduit is used as a sort of continuous shield and crush protection, but not to conduct ground fault current, meaning it does not replace a grounded conductor, however it is still ground referenced in case a hot wire comes in contact with the conduit. Which makes the electronic bench installation unique (also seen in music recording studios) because many times for motor controls the metal conduit is used as protective earth so you can omit the earth protective ground wire in the conduit. Also, traditionally the bench outlets, usually metal quad boxes (two GFCI duplex receptacles in the same metal box) are stagger as three 120 VAC, 20 Amp circuits along the bench. So, as you go around the bench the quad box circuits would be 1, 2, and 3, and then go back to 1. This is done so if one of the circuits overload you will not loose the whole bench. All are fed using circuit breakers. The wiring is stranded copper. Connections to the outlets are done using captive spade lugs to the receptacles and the screws torqued to spec. You can also buy GFCI outlet that already have a stranded pigtails attached so you can use a wire-nut, WAGO splices are rarely used for electronic benches. All of the bench test equipment is grounded. To test hot chassis power supplies and equipment you have to have an AC isolation transformer to float the mains and the safety ground as an option. Generally, for most manufacturers you will see two types of AC power supplies, one used for troubleshooting (field returns) and one used for testing (after it has been repaired and calibrated). Usually, there is a field return test bench and separate out-going equipment test bench, each is set up different for the different tasks. You must add ESD grounding connections to metal tables if used, ESD pads and ESD floor mats. I like to use a tin plated threaded copper grounding bus bars on isolated mounts with copper (or brass) nuts and washers. This ESD earth ground can be external to the metal conduit. You can run a separate grounding cable (6 AWG) in plastic conduit back to the earth grounding in the mains panel. Make sure this connection has no breaks or splices from the bus bar to the panel.
You germans are in another level in electrical instalations... i´m a mexican civil engineer student and an electricity enthusiast and i hope to go to Germany in near future to learn about your magnificent engineering techniques. Excellent videos!!
Nice project and congrats on the start of building your home. My suggestion would be, if time allowed, is labeling your wires at your substation panel. Not sure if you plan on doing that, but it would help for when you go back and add new construction or for trouble shooting.
A networking tip I see, and definitely agree. I'm doing this for a smaller scale project (a 3D printer at work). Zip-ties with a little tag attached were my choice for this project.
Exactly - I myself did this when setting up my LAN-Network (yes: I am one of those guys who don't think WiFi is super great, especially for gaming!)...I know where each wire leads as they are labeled!
Ausgezeichnet!!! As an electrician in the States, it was great to see how things are done in Germany. When my brother and sister-in-law built their house in Germany, I was amazed with his electric panel: 400V 3-phase (much more power than our split-phase 240 V panel)! It even had a built-in timing relay to control the Schwibbogen!!!
Considering just 3% of homes in Germany even has air conditioning I'm trying to fathom why they would even need 400v 3 phase. Sure, it means you could use thinner wiring as the amperage will be lower but it also means the actual copper wire is more susceptible to damage.
@@thorstenjaspert9394 in the UK we generally would run 240 V for heating things just because three phases available but so many of our homes are older appliances generally up all single face but we still need to include really thick wires even if it was run three phase so the saving of wire size may not always be the case
Hello, congratulations on the excellent electrical installation, I was once an electrical installation inspector here in Portugal. Around here we use the same materials and the same brands. Here we do not mix sockets and lighting in the same circuit, not for safety reasons (as long as it is guaranteed) but for legal reasons. If there is any repair to be done (and I'm being nitpicky) it's just the location of the electrical panel, here in Portugal we do our best to always install it near the entrance to the building, to allow maneuvers in case of an accident inside, but as I said I'm being extremely picky. Once again congratulations on the excellent work!
Yeah, you still have lights if you trip the breaker for outlets, that's one advantage. A few days ago I was installing sonoff relays inside my light switch boxes and as it turned out my cables are soldered together. Thanks to all the lights being on a separate circuit/breaker I could easily plug my soldering iron. And the food in my fridge didn't go bad.
I used a shunt trip in a safety circuit like this. When the e stop is pressed the shunt trip mechanically trips the main switch / circuit breaker / rcd. There is no idle current. Requires a physical reset once the emergency situation is rectified. Works well
You could add a pushbutton and green light to turn on your work bench. Then switch the relay operation around as it should be. This will then consume the additional power only when the circuit is active anyway. It will also function as safety in case of power outages to prevent equipment from starting unintentionally.
It’s cool to see how wiring in homes in Europe gets done compared to the USA. It seems like there’s a lot more customization available compared to panels in the USA. Seems closer to how we wire panels at my work building automation equipment.
that panel is definitely an oddball compared to a regular mainland europe panel in a residence. But yeah the DIN rail system (the standardized metal rails at the back of the panel) is great for customizing how your panel gets laid out. In the US you will only see those in electrical panel that primarily control things in a industrial/commercial setting.
@@liam4249 Germany is both in the EU and also western Europe, not sure why you think it isnt, whilst what is shown isnt representable for all of Europe it is certainly done across multiple European countries
Only thing I would pick on is the half completed conduit. European rules are somewhat similar to ours, so yes I'm aware that it's not required, however having all of the corners just left out just looks dodgy. A few bits of corro (flexible corrugated conduit) would seal everything up, give a bit of additional mechanical protection at those corners and just make it look neat.
I’m an Industrial electrician and work with safety critical circuits every day. I really like that you implemented a two safety switches but there some way of improvement without sacrificing massive energy losses. Safety switches normally use two independent opening switches called channel one and two. Those chanels are interconnected through every switch used in this safety circuit. Those are then wired into a so called safety relay(sicherheitsrelais in deutsch hersteller da vor allem Pilz, Wieland und Siemens ) those Monitor constantly if the two channels are interrupted or shorted together. If one of them fails they shut of a relay output and have to be reset via another pushbutton or keyswitch. Paired with an 3 phase contactor (leistungsschütz) they provide a very secure system. Those industrial 24V contactors are way more energy efficient then the one in the video. As an example a Sirius 3RT2025 draws 5.9W even with an additional power supply and safety relay thats way below the 62w of the hager relay
Such a satisfying job you did! Awesome! One small remark though as industrial engineer; it is not considered safe to wire emergency stops in parallel, you should wire them in series with NC contacts so that if one of them is punched you are 100% sure you have no more current. Anyhow, for personal stuff it won't give yopu any trouble.
Nice setup! This is not for the same situation but when I set up and EMO circuit for an automation device I used a “safety relay” which requires an additional reset switch before power can be turned back on.
Instead of using the relay for your emergency stop, you could use an RCD with an undervoltage release (Unterspannungsauslöser). Thats how they did it for the new buildung my school got. You get the cable break protection with only a stand-by power consumption of < 10 VA (depending on the model)
@@avckubw938v1bnvowiqv Well, if you do that, you loose the cable-break protection again, but you don't need to buy a separate relay because you need a circuit breaker anyway.
You should probably use a safety relay and proper protection circuitry like a monitor things like the emergency stop and flag alarms if there are issues happening they could be integrated with similar systems
Tip for the emergency stop. You can always wire in a small LED parallel to the main and the neutral on the steering side of the relay to show that there is voltage across the LED, even though the relay is not triggered.
@@mrtechie6810 there are e-stop buttons that can have an integrated LED, for example from Eaton. They also have Signal LED Modules that run on 230 Volts.
To everyone asking why the cable wasnt completely enclosed in the conduit with bends and such: In germany electrical wiring needs to be double insulated. In this case the cable itself already is, so in theory he could have just nailed it directly to the walls with some clips, not needing the conduits at all. Had he run single wires, then he would have needed to enclose the wires in conduit the whole way. But running single wires in conduit, while allowed, is not usually done here.
i was thinking about that myself, even if its not needed i think is makes the whole install look DIY when conduit stops and starts. If i did that during my apprenticeship in the uk, i would have got it in the neck. I think as its not really any extra work to install bends and bush and couplers in the trunking and conduit its worth it to look, not DIY
@@maynardholt8935 Well we are cheapskates, nobody here will pay for the extra material and labor if it isn't required by code. Also those are even a little challenging to come by, usually that's not something in stock and ordered. Call us lazy, go ahead, won't blame ya 🤣
@@maynardholt8935 I agree. The lack of couplers into the main duct and also to each device really triggered me. I'm not a sparky (my career was in electronic design) but it makes the whole thing look incomplete. The same goes for the bends between sections of conduit, especially as the cable transitions from wall to ceiling. And I understand the double insulation point, but it just looks bad.
That still raises questions in the UK we were generally connect the conduit to the box even if we used double insulated cable the reason is if the cat conjuring is installed for protecting the cable directly above a switch or socket is the most likely paste it could get damaged because it’s the place you’re touching a lotall the height you would lean something against the wall if a conduit is installed simply for mounting the cable as it’s easier than clips that would be fine but he doesn’t really offer lots of protection
@@maynardholt8935 I think that’s because in the UK we still going to protect the cable here it seems to be easier than clipping it as I don’t think clips are super common in Germany
@GreatScott! According to their website the operating consumption of the coil is 5.75W. 62.5W is the inrush power to close the relay. If you really wanted to follow the industry standard everything should be redundant (2 contacts per E-stop and 2 relays for the power) but it seems to be a bit overkill for a garage. At least having something is beter than nothing and E-stop are a great addition for a consumer's workshop so great idea an keep going !
@@greatscottlab Link? You can just measure that with your Gossen Metrawatt. But yes, above is true, AC coil contactors takes 10 times more power to close, when magnetic circuit is closed it takes much less. 63W in such small device will melt it down.
@@greatscottlab 62.5 watts in a tiny coil inside a plastic enclosure the size of a fist without active cooling would be very hot. Think how hot modern CPU's run with their included tiny heatsinks under a full synthetic load. Now imagine stopping the fan, would you dare touch that heatsink after a couple of minutes? Though to be fair, the CPU would (eventually) thermal throttle when it reaches TJmax and it's clock speed would drop like a rock therefore it's power consumption would drop as well. But even then that heatsink would be unbearably hot to touch. And obviously a heatsink is made of metal which conducts heat way better than plastic. A normal candle is supposedly around 80W of heat energy just as an example. But you've got testing equipment. Measure the power draw?
When I did my lab / home office, I used conduit to mount sockets as well. I did take the opportunity to wire a whole load of network sockets, and wire them back to a mini 19 inch rack. I also wired satellite feeds, a bit of good gauge cable for surround sound loudspeakers and the TV / computer displays, along with a home cinema amp to do the switching.
yea I'd use conduit, armored cable and steel J boxes. if I accidentally hit it with an air rifle (or smash it with something) it's not gonna shatter, plus harder for mice to live in.
Im from germany and learing Electrician. I am at 95% from my apprenticeship so in my last half Year (3/3,5). I have to say that the result is very clean and tidy. So Yes the Cables could a bit more straight so horizontally and vertically, then i think it would be 100% perfect. Nice Job!
Absolutely beautiful! The only thing that I did differently in my workshop was to use cable tray instead of the plastic conduit. I love how it looks and it is also super flexible when adding new cables or switchboxes etc!
Ach als gelernter Elektroniker für Betriebstechnik geht mir da doch wirklich ein Herz auf ❤ Hab tatsächlich bei dem Schaltplan kurz gestutzt als du die Notausschaltung erklärt hast und mir gedacht „eigentlich sollten das Öffner Kontakte im Notaus sein“ aber da hast du recht, das sollte sicher genug sein😌 Wenn man nach dem Industriestandard geht, müsste man bei einer Notabschaltung über Relais bzw. Eines Schütz noch Maßnahmen gegen verkleben der Kontakte unternehmen aber das wäre wirklich Zuviel für eine kleine Garage mit Werkbank ^^ Weiter so!
Nothing stopping you from using a lot of this stuff, if you don't mind the expense. Parents house is 60 years old, brick ranch with wood framing/drywall inside. Electrical is standarm 120v single-phase, with wiring to outlets run inside the walls with metal plates on the 2x4 where the hole is, against the inside of the drywall. Simple ROMEX wire, wirenuts, and junction boxes at the outlets. No fires, no rewiring needed, no fatalities from hanging pictures/tv's, etc, etc. My career has been network infrastructure in biotech and pharma/R&D, where network cable has been specc'ed for conduit along with electrical in production and other areas. Requiring conduit in the home setting seems a bit absurd. Maybe it because you've got 3-phase 250v and nailing a picture frame is actually liable to kill you, but once you've run your outlets and lights, having conduit/pull-strings available while nice, I'm doubtful is really that useful or a selling point. If you end up doing a remod or extension, you're going to have demo access anyways, so thats not a good excuse/selling point. It WOULD be nice to have 10-12Kw available normally though, especially for the shop. However in general use, 240v split phase seems to work for US/Canada fairly well enough for the stove/washer-dryer that they are generally used for. 120v from the a or b side for lights and simple appliances, and no need for conduit. Tidy wiring is always nice though.
@@boots7859 ...also when done correctly (back spacing from the back side of the wall), typical wiring is back far enough that unless you're foolishly driving a spike into the wall without locating a stud (in which case plastic conduit won't save you, and perhaps metal won't either)...just about every wall hanging hardware barely protrudes past the wall board... ...a lot of the stuff they (Europe) is a bit overkill...especially those 'wago' (sp?) connectors...they remind me of those spring type terminal blocks that I find in EU machines that I fix...GARBAGE!...you need to have a positive clamping device (screw terminal) as you can re-tighten as needed...overtime, friction based terminal blocks WILL weaken, get hotter and cause issues...sure they take longer to install, but it's well worth the 'piece of mind'... The only thing that I like that they use is the cable...I hate running ROMEX or BX cable.....but sum up what you mention, 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'...I work on industrial gear (millwright) for a living, and no offence to EU gear, but it's always being dicked with in the name of 'efficiency' .....problem is, that most of it doesn't last as long, and what good is 'efficiency' if you have to go out an buy a new one?
Boots I think Europe runs alot of conduit because alot of their homes are made of concrete or brick and they don't have hollow walls. Obviously if they require conduit inside a wall that's silly. Plastic conduit isn't going to stop a nail or screw from hitting a wire behind it. Anything that is going to be nailed/screwed into a wall that goes deep enough to potentially hit a wire will be attached to a stud and they have steel caps that go over the stud making it next to impossible to hit a wire unless you are just so dumb you keep drilling after you hit thick metal.
@@angusandleigh "you need to have a positive clamping device (screw terminal) as you can re-tighten as needed...overtime, friction based terminal blocks WILL weaken" Thats just not true. They will withstand vibrations and temperature changes. Screwterminals are a thing of the past atleast for small wire gauges. Why do you have to re-tighten screw terminals? -vibrations? -temperature changes? -too much torque on first installation and deformed conductor? Let me guess you are still using wire nuts in junction boxes and think thats the way to go? Or using screwterminals on stranded wires without ferrule and think its fine? Btw i'am also electrian on industrial machines with 20 years of experience.
@@Awacs1985 ...especially on industrial gear it is absolutely true...I have had to deal with more control wiring issues with friction connections...I have never had to replace a screw terminal as they can be tightened over time...heat and vibration are the enemy to any friction terminal. High quality industrial machines more often than not still use screw terminals because they WORK, no need to reinvent the wheel. As a matter of fact I do still use wire nuts with HT insulation because not everything has a terminal block...space permitted like say on a motor etc. they work just fine...and for solid core wire they are better than terminal block as they are stronger and there is no strain on them...if I'm using stranded wire, then sure a TB is nicer, but it will be a screw block... ...I'm a 20 year Millwright, and I've had to correct a lot of sparky jobs or factory designs because they aren't robust enough. I have rebuilt many control panels...I have replaced many friction blocks with screw blocks because the former were no longer up to the task. You just can't beat positive affixation...especially where heat an vibration is concerned. Friction blocks are only superior as you don't have to 'maintain' them...buts that's just laziness...you should always be inspecting things so there are no surprises, every year or less each machine that I look after gets re-torqued...and I've never had a failure.
For my workbench I installed a 6 foot long outlet strip above and below the workbench. That way I can connect as many tools as necessary where I need to. I probably only use one tool at a time, but it's very convenient to just leave them all plugged in. Under the workbench I have a shelf with power tools always plugged in, like a drill, Dremel, heat gun, glue gun, oscillating tool and more. When I need something, just pull it out and use it.
Sooo neat. Tells me that the electrician really cared about what he was doing. The details are so important. Thank you so much. I would like to learn more about how you do wiring in Germany. Salute from Ohio, USA.
First congrats for your new place, consider before it's too late to run CAT 6 cable next to power sockets and collect them all to one corner so later you can do a small lan network , or you can even install a small rack for your lab.
I think those ducts are a fantastic idea but I would have also tried to get a couple of normal outlets in the wall that are located under the tables for those plugs you never really unplug. I am definitely going to implement the power ducts in my dream lab set-up!
Not only "under the table" but also add a number of RJ45 outlets and maybe a few power outlets in a different color, connected to a UPS. Having RJ45 outlets everywhere is absolutely a win-win. Even though you might not yet have them patched to a switch yet. Just wire them to a patch panel near your switch(es) so you can "enable" them by patching them when needed. Also manual switching between switches (e.g. 2.5G/10G) or VLAN ports is really useful when you ever decide to use managed switches and have fallen in love with the truly nice features VLANs have to offer :) ) Maybe also one or two mains outlets connected to their own earth breaker ("aardlekschakelaar" in Dutch) with a lower than the standard 30 mA threshold so you can connect test devices to it which might otherwise be tripping the breaker for a lot more devices.
@@TD-er With these wallmount system, it's so easy to just run 20 cables to a patchpanel in a small 19" Rack and switch and pull one cable into the house to the main switch (Fiber FTW :D)
That is a very professional and clean setup, thumbs up to you and your electrician friend! It amazes me that in Italy we have modular sockets for power and controls everywhere for more than 30 years, the most famous modular systems are made by BTicino and Vimar, but in the rest of EU are not so common.
Proper planning, execution with attention to detail, and being tidy solves most wiring problems. I used to manage physical plant installations for large server/pc systems and anyone who came to work that did tasks in a shoddy fashion was gone before lunch. Saved time and resources in the contract arc.
I'm not sure what your plans are for your CEE outlet but you might consider wiring the outlet to a relay that seals in with a start stop button. The buttons would allow you to de-energize and energize the outlet safely and if you have a power outage the relay would drop out and not allow the outlet to be re-energized when the power comes back on until the start button is pressed. We did this with the outlets on our motor test bench at work.
@@greatscottlab Hi, Is it common to use electrical wires like that in combination with PVC pipes in Germany? Here in NL (as far as I know) single wires for each fase + a ground wire would be used within PVC pipes. Those wires would also have solid cores. Also the wires would be fully enclosed with PVC pipes and junction boxes. I would associate the ones that you used with extension cords. I’m just curious, thanks.
i like how the first time i heard about wago terminals was on your channel, so they are pronounced "vah-go" in my head, and when h heard an american talking about "way-go" terminals, it took me a long time to realise what they were talking about. but "vah-go" is always going to be correct in my head
Hello sir. Congratulations on your new side. I love your channel I’m a big fan of your also always I like how germans do their electrical system. From Albania 🇦🇱
This is very educational. I hold citizenship in both the U.S. and Europe (Italy), and find the differences in our electrical systems enormous. Thank you for sharing this. I have a lot of experience with the north american systems, but none in the european systems.
me is the opposite, and i am glad not to work in the USA, its much more easy here, just drill a round hole into the wall, switch box in, switch in, ready! and 230/400V in every house.... i never understood your 115V/220V, up to the moment i saw the wooden poles with the power cables, its like in a 3rd world country to my place....everything is underground, power, phone and TV!
i really like the idea of an Estop in the workshop, though I would recommend going the extra mile and use two channels with separate relays and NC contacts. To reduce power consumption you could simply push the Estop when you leave the workshop :) If you don't want that, at least do a function check every time before you use your workshop. Also, having one Estop actuator is nice, but more would make sense so you can reach one from wherever you are
Yeah, in my little world that e-stop design would be totally unacceptable. Trading proper design for saving 63 watts is just dumb. Normally closed buttons, normally energized contactor. Double it all up (2 e-stop redundant loops) if you wanna get all euro with it.
Yeah, I use my estop as a general-purpose master switch. (saves on the latent draw of the various devices too if you want to be conscious of power usage)
@@sootikins I think the e-stop was mostly a "nice to have" and not a require safety feature in this case. With german electricity prices saving 63 watts of draw can mean >350€ extra electricity costs per year.
@@Esablaka I agree. I was more just wanting to run my mouth than anything. Somebody has to be Safety Sally here - LOL. So by your math German power costs about 0.63€/KWh. Not that shocking. In my part of USA the power companies have all gone "green" causing rates to skyrocket. I pay $0.33/KWh off peak times and $0.67/KWh on peak.
Automated equipment I'm used to had two "lines" in the E-STOP loop. One normally "OPEN" and one "CLOSED". BOTH had to be correct in order to function. ALL E-Stops were then in SERIES.
nice video! A few things, first, I would have limited the use of spring loaded connectors, especially on the 400V, screw terminals may a bit more pain, because they need tightening ideally once a year, but I think they are more secure than spring loaded (if they come loose, you have to replace the whole device). Adding a few RJ45 sockets in the modular wall conduits wouldn't be too much I think, it's better than trying to catch the Wi-Fi from the house through the concrete walls, plus, that would limit radio emissions too and that would be nice if you try yourself on wireless projects. For the emergency stop button, swapping the relay for a security relay is a must, your standard relay doesn't give you the guarantee that it will break the circuit if he got damaged (a short or any type of over-current can easily weld the contacts together) a dedicated security relay will break the circuit permanently if the power module get damaged and the automatic reset of the emergency relay on the NO contacts is a bit risky I think, you have no means to know if the fault still there or a device is still powered, a manual reset next to the door would add the extra step to ensure everything is safe before closing the circuit. I think Schneider make safety relays that include a surveillance module (maybe Häger too, but I don't know their catalog enough), with emergency stop and reset loops and a protected power module that hook the mains right after the fuses and breaker, they are probably more expensive, but I think they worth it. Just out of curiosity, why the diazed fuses? I thought they were progressively phased out in Europe, is it a standard still very present in Germany? last time I saw this type of fuses, it was on a 30 year old machine, it was a pain to get new fuses and very expensive compared to similar 10x38 cartridges. That's all I could think of, I hope I didn't come as arrogant or aggressive, English isn't my first language and I was told that sometimes I may come as a bit obnoxious, I assure you it's not my intentions :)
I'm no electrician. But i think the diazed fuses are better for high inrush current. The standard automatic breakers (C- characteristic) can more easily trip from starting motors, pumps, angle grinders etc. It is still widely used believe 😀
Indeed, as Eytaris wrote for emergency off you cannot use a Standard relay! You need special safety relay. On a Standard relay there is the possibility that that contacts Stick together due to arcing. Therefore you need to use safety relay.
Diazed fuses are still used as "main fuses" protecting the whole circuit; automatic breakers are then used in each sub-circuit. The idea is that the automatic breakers will catch any fault in normal conditions and if the diazed fuses should blow you really do have a real problem to solve. They used to be commonplace as normal circuit breakers, but those days have long since gone by. I agree on safety relays, and in most places, you actually need two of those in a row (one opening, one closing) to prevent sticky contacts from arcs ever happening. Also, you should not only break the L1, L2 and L3 phases, but also the N neutral (but never the PE protective earth). Usually, safety realys will have four contacts exactly for this reason. Also, in a new installation involving 400V CEE outlets, one should have an automatic disconnect in case of power failure; this prevents an uncontrolled inrush current into any devices connected if the power returns. This requires switching the supply on manually, which is a minor nuisance, but a tremenduous safety improvement.
Hi, I also agree regarding the use of a true safety relay. Btw. The 64W will be drawn only for a short time, then it will drop below 6W or so. The datasheet sadly isnt´t clear in this. A comparable SCHNEIDER GC6304M5 Relay shows: Anzugsleistung 53VA, Halteleistung 6.4VA but only 2.1W of true power.
German Electrician here, although im NOT perfectly aware of the exact ruleset (VDE). You are righ, Diazed fuses are hard to find, thats because we have Neozed fuses. They are always the same size (Volume) in different ratings, so a 6A Neozed fuse is the same size as a 63A fuse. And yes they are used as main fuses befor a RCD or longer wire parts with higher diamater for more Power. Fuses and RCD's should always be selective, meaning you lower your rating the lower your go. NEVER put a higher or same rating fuse or RCD behind each other. So after a 35A Neozed fuse you go through a 40A (max) RCD, to your 16A breaker. Ask if you want to know some more :)
2 ปีที่แล้ว +7
For endings and corners of cable pipes, use protective ribbed hoses (wire loom) that fit into the canal. This hides cables, and protects them in those places (important close to workbench).
I was also surprised that the cable was left unprotected. I assumed they were going to finish it, but left it like that. It is my only complain, and otherwise a very very neat job.
Nice installation. A thing I would suggest, considering you will work with electronic equipment and possibly faulty one would have been to install more than one RCD, at least one for the workbench sockets and one for lights/other sockets, so when you trip it you will not remain in the dark.
Nice job. The only thing I can say from experience is that double the amount of outlets you think you are going to need and then you will not run out of them immediately :) Like, none at the ceiling? You should have some. And under the desks. And then more above the desks, but of course you can do that easily into the ducts.
@@randybobandy9828 I currently have 30 plugs in use in the small room I sit in at the moment. Extensions and multiple output strips can be nice but they can also be very inconvenient for stuff you need to unplug often. And it's nice to have switched and always on outlets etc. Not to mention a lot of devices that occupy one port but block the adjacent one and so on.
Agreed - I would add quite a few outlets under the desk for those things that are rarely unplugged, and perhaps a couple of ports in the desktop (at the back) for cables to pass through. It also reduces the cable clutter on top of the desk.
Muss sagen ihr habt alles sauber gemacht und so wie es sein soll, was mich wundert ist das du nicht direkt ein Netzwerkkabel in die Garage gezogen hast bzw. Netzwerkdosen in den Brüstungskanal gebaut hast. Viel spaß in der neuen Werkstatt, baue mir demnächst auch eine auf und werde da mit allem komplett übertreiben haha
In the USA, house power is two 120Vac phases with a "neutral", or one 240V source. This is called "Split-Phase". 240V is used for clothes-dryers, heat-pumps, oven etc...
split phase is long history in europe. German houseconnection is 3 phase 400 volt 63 Amp. single phase outlets 230 volt 16 amp 3600 watt. Enough for you washingmachine dryer, ovens and so on.
I am super exited for you to build your own home/setup. Really neat setup in this video. From this dutch guy that lives in USA, please label your E-stops with the 22mm circlular sticky label that says Emergency Stop (or in german) to top it all off. Congratulations!
As an European living in another EU country (Poland) it was interesting to watch mainly because one doesn't often see electrical installations done on the walls surface (as opposed to the much more common in-the-wall installation). Here in Poland I think the rules are pretty much the same as in Germany and we commonly use the same types of parts as shown(except wago connectors, those are less popular, we often use screw terminals with solid core wiring). Also the choices you made were interesting. I did a lot of electrical work on my own garage few years ago and more recently on a shed and a pv installation (of course I had it designed and certified by a qualified electrician). One of the things I did differently is I used square cross section snap-on plastic conduit instead of pipes for the cables in the buildings, also I used standard outlets. This conduit was easier to install then piping and it the idea was for it to be easier to modify in future, but having seen this video I now think pipes look better :-) I hope you do make another video on wiring of the house too.
Instead of a safety relay, you can use an additional ground fault interrupter with your button shorting it to ground. (this will mimic the test button on the device) For double safety, you have to reset the interrupter after resetting the push button.
GFI's can be really expensive tho, especially when it's an atypical current rating. 40A ones are usually way more expensive than 63A ones for example. In itself tho, that's a really neat idea if you wanna spend the extra money :D
This was interesting to watch as I am an electrician in the USA. In the USA you are not aloud to have those cables exposed as they are subject to physical harm. You have to run the conduit all the way to the boxes using connector fittings. To get the wire in, you would push a fish tape and pull whatever wires you need. You would not push a cable into the conduits as they are to thick and would be to hard to pull around bends. There is a lot more to it and of course more codes on the specifics.
It's good to see some sense with connecting electricity here. I'm used to those weird USA way of installing electrical installations, as I mostly watch English content on TH-cam. Luckily I'm Dutch (hello neighbour!) and we have such installations as the Germans too, almost the same rules too! I did an education in normal 230v electronic installations before I could pick my IT specialty. So my knowledge is a bit rusty, but I like to see good installations such as this. Having said that, this installtion looks very good!
LOL, I love it when Europeans complain about electrical distribution in N.A. Yes its so weird! 3-Conductor cable run inside the walls, which terminate at outlets where each conductor is screwed into its terminal. Wow, so crazy! Or is it the wirenuts that are just soo kooky? Strip 2-3-4 conductors 1", twist them clockwise with a pliers, and then sit a wirenut on top and twist them some more. Patented by a Scotsman in Canada in 1926. If there were problems with them of any kind, they woudn't be a standard. Anyone outside of a DIY'er can strips and wirenut a connection in under a minute, so any labor saving excuse is really BS, often used to justify the 10x+ increase in connector cost. Being able to flip a lever and re-use a connector, WOW.... Really, since they are used inside walls/boxes, its pretty rare they ever get touched again, so outside of maybe lightswitches where you might have 6-8 wires coming in, or be potentially more often accessed as SHMBO wants to replace switches, not seeing any reason why they are superior in a construction project. One place where they are nice as mentioned above is where you have a lot of wires coming into a box and the small feature size on the connector just saves the day of what would otherwise be a rats nest. The wirenuts have been studied and the pressure applied in their use has been shown to provide a pretty serious crompression interface that makes them pretty darn strong, with an airless interface. I've heard a few complaints about slightly to short wires pulling out of Waygo's being a problem also. Along with issues with the springs inside for some reason or other. But yeah, crazy. Every day we've got people dieing from house fires and being eletrocuts putting up picture frames over here...
@@boots7859 That's a big text. But i suggest you ever visit a fair like Light and Building in Frankfurt in Germany. The whole world accents there every two years. Your eyes will open. While i think American Industrial installations are sometimes works of wonder. I really do think domestic installs are from another age.
Other than the safety relay being normally off instead of normally on, I like what you'ved done. A lot of thought has been put into what you want, and that wall channel is a great idea. I can see a 63Watt continuous draw would be unwanted. Even if it was only on while you worked at the bench, and turned off other times, it would still be something that needed considering. Thanks for the tour and showing us your thought process.
That safety relay is a huge NO for that specific reason. There should be two switches in the emergency stop: One closer, that closes when the switch enclosure is bolted together so you cannot switch the power on when an emergency stop switch is missing/got torn off and an opener that breaks the power to the power contactor which then switches itself off. On top of that, the power should not switch back on when you pull the emergency stop out but you need to have a seperate POWER ON switch (momentary). In German that is called Selbsthalteschaltung. Doing it any other way is pretty dangerous. And that "normally on" power contactor is not that common to begin with... Edit: The whole argument of "too much power consumption" is nonsense because the relay only requires those 60W in the very moment it starts moving. Once switching is complete, it is somewhere below 5 W. The only reason they put the high number in the datasheet is that all current bearing parts on the coil side need to be designed for that higher current...
@greatscottlab You could use a RCD from Doepke which you can extend with a emergency stop module. That would be way more fail safe and doesn't use a lot of additional power.
I worked 3 years long as a Mechatroniker in Deutschland, and I fully agree 100% on your title. I didn't learn a lot of tech there, but vernünftige Verdrahtung, for sure I learned that.
It's a very nice job! There is a level of satisfaction in planning the space to your liking and making it in real life. Looking forward to see more from your new space!
That safe for sure. In Krautland, it is calculated, which cable diameter is required, dependig an the cablelength and breaker, so it is also safe, but kind more complicated.
The electrician that did my garage is a childhood friend of mine, and also a car guy, I have outlets everywhere, and then some, I have one of those ducts above the workbench, I have more lights then I ever need (because "you might want to use it as a paintbox one day")
Swiss electrician here Those hager ducts are nice indeed. Just a shame they have no such fancy instant outlets for here from what I know. Two things I'd have done differently would be: Using more smaller ducts instead of all the tubes. simplifies your life in the future in case you ever want to add more things. And adding a Neutral disconnector for every breaker. Not only required here but actually useful if you ever have issues with your wiring. Can also be used to fully isolate a circuit that constantly trips that RCD.
I'm quite familiar with that kind of Garage-structure ... so how often did you accidentally drill too deep and make the plaster pop off the outside? Sometimes these walls are only like ~6cm thick!
The wiring system you used is essentially exactly the same in Australia. We use the same breakers. The only difference being is we use flat TPS cable instead of that white circular cable. And where the conduit goes into cable boxes we would run the conduit directly into it, no cable can be exposed at all. Super interesting though
You've done a great job with the building's electric connections. BUT, what I haven't seen in the video and I strongly recommend (in fact, i don't know german regulations but in Spain is mandatory) is the installation of Protection against permanent and transient overvoltages.
As a student we were also just explained about importance of adding such protection, however first you had to evaluate the risk factor on the site and I believe if it wasn't a public/government building you could only give your recommendations to your client about this. That's when we were told stories about some folks trying to save some money and ending up with huge losses due to fried expensive electronics, computers etc. because of overvoltages. :)
The German electrical system look very similar to Czech electrical system. But instead of pipes we like to use light gray square channels with lid. I dont know what are they called in english. (In german should be 15x15 kabelkanal lichtgrau)
Nice job. I can tell in Italy fuse boxes are extremely rare since the seventies and aren't used in new constructions... so it's kind weird to see them 😊
@@staffa007 ah So still a fuse box using day to day terms. Few probably still ise songle use fuses, but its always called fuse box not corcuit breaker box
There are beakers on the panel. The incoming phases are protected by fuses. That can be a requirement. A breaker can fail so that the circuit stays closed, a fuse cannot. That is the reason why for example in Finland the main fuses have to be actual fuses.
Hot damn. You guys are gods compared to what Mexican electricians will do with our houses' wiring. I can't count how many times I went and found incredibly unsafe and out of spec wiring in my own home. To give you an example: Electricians in Mexico will refuse to install physical GND on a house if they can avoid it. I struggled to get a guy to install one ground circuit in my home and he only did it at the start of the main's circuit, that ground is not connected to the rest of the house.
Uow Scott, here in Brazil just three of this sockets cost 1 month salary. So, you imagine how faaaaaar your gorgeous installation is from our average electrical home and office installation.
I’m building a tiny house and was looking for a good way to power my desk/workspace and I’m literally in love with the wall ducts. I’m using those everywhere I can now.
Things I'd have done differently - I'd probably try to get rid of the legs for the workbench as far as possible. My experience is that wherever they are located I end up sitting with one of the things right where my leg is supposed to go. Office furtniture is expensive and often the table depth is to small. So I ended up buying the biggest kitchen table from a well known Northern European furniture company for my last office and aside of having legs in the wrong place it has served me well.
Hey, congrats on your new garage. I thought you were gonna spec it all out with IOT devices with Homeassistant integrations and solar panels but yeah i still like these generic electrical installation videos especially coming from you. Thank you for these educational contents you make, just as i am, i am sure someone will find this really interesting. Great Job!
With the relay wired like this, it is less than ideal for using the emergency stop buttons as a 'master off' switch for the bench. The relay will use power when everything is off. So, I'd add a master switch. Also, add one or two outlets that are on at all times, regardless of the emergency stop and the proposed master switch, for a computer and networking equipment. Depends a bit on what you want to do in that room. An always on outlet is also handy for a cordless tool battery charger.
It's interesting to me that you're allowed to set up your conduit with "gaps" at corners and at entrances to boxes; it looks strange to me (living in North America) as I've always seen electrical wiring done either in continuous conduit, or with spiral-armored cable. You also occasionally see NM/Romex cable, but that's mostly used for in-wall rather than exposed/surface installations like this.
I agree it looks strange from here. However we occasionally do something similar in the US, where instead of using the conduit as part of a complete raceway system we just use it as a sleeve for convenience or to protect against physical damage. In my basement the NM is sleeved in EMT until it reaches the ceiling joists, where it is then stapled in the traditional way to framing. That said the lack of connections from point to point here would just grind my gears. I assume Germany has complete raceway systems that would look and function better to protect against workshop damage.
Very nice setup, since moving to Germany I've noticed space is at a premium, having that extra 3x3m work area on your garage is awesome, can't wait to see what you do with it, all the things that are bad for your health like lasers or 3D printing, or the noise they produce being annoying/loud, you can just chuck in the garage, a perfect maker space. Are we also going to see your house build?
Mechatronics Technician working in the industry here, so I was about to be triggered, but then you cleared it up ;) I'd probably have split the sockets on the workbench 50/50 and colour coded them. Half of them on all the time, half of them via the E-Stop, and then wired the E-Stop "correctly". That way you'd only have to turn the protected outlets on if you actually needed them, and could rely on the better protection. Still, every bit of protection is better then none. Would be interesting to know how they did the E-Stop sefety outlets for "Berufsschule". Though I do remember them having them turned off most of the time.
That is why there was a second smaller distribution box next to the bigger one. There the protection devices for the EV charger will get installed. But that will take a bit of time.
@@greatscottlab absolutely, I agree with additional fuses, I am just surprised the fitting/design is so ancient looking, compared to everything else. I have only seen screw-in fuse holders in a museum! From a UK perspective it's like you'd used a bakelite and brass knife switch from a Frankenstein movie, or something similar made from polished wood and brass, it just looks so incongruous next to all the modern kit. I remember my Opa telling me about screw in fuses from his childhood in the 1920s!
@@tsataras Yes, and no. We have a main fuse, but electrical panels haven't used rewireable fuses since the 80s, its all MCBs - if you still have rewireable fuses in your distribution board it is long overdue for replacement. To be clear, I'm not surprised at the use of a fuse, I'm surprised at the use of a porcelain, screw in, fuse of a design by Thomas Edison! UK main fuses are of the cylindrical variety, not screwed in like a lightbulb! I guess "if it aint bust, don't fix it", but I'm just surprised that the design has remained unchanged for more than 100 years :)
@@richardbanks2669 k1 k2 and k3 fuse holders are still common in mainland europe. And still inproved to a ip rating that you cant touch the active parts.
German and Italian electrical standards are mostly similar, in fact we use more or less the same manufacturers. A big difference is the style of the components, Germans are rounded or a square, Italians are rectangular. If I am not wrong you also place pipes in the concrete more often than us too.
Nice build, but you should have probably put the cables in some protective pipe in the bends too. In our company we use grey flexible conduits or sometimes premade bends. Also not a huge fan of those sockets and switches gewiss has much better modular system, but whatever suits you.
That is allowed in Germany, and is also done in industrial buildings. If it was in a wall then you wil need to bend a pipe. But on a wall this is typical to do
Yeah, since you have to use that plastic conduit anyways, not sure why they don't have 45' and 90' sweeps that you can just pop on the ends. Not sure exactly what that plastic conduit is really going to do protection-wise, but better than bar wire. Putting those outlets only 3-4 inches above the table was a big fail. Unless he's not going to have equipment on the bench. Put them 18-24" above the table top so you can put stuff against the wall and maximize work table space, and included cable of stuff is usually 5-6' anyways to you get that off the table.
@@boots7859 we in holland have pvc pipe and hostaliet. Hostaliet dos not shatter when you hit it with a hammer or other things. Pvc pipe shatters like glass. Getting cables with 3 wires to go through a bend is very difficult. A cable with 5 wires is practically impossible. I think he uses 2.5mm2 wires or 14agw for American users.
@@mikeyhendri here in slovenia at least in our company we put pieces of flexible conduit in bends. Don't know about protection but it looks better than exposed cables. This is done in industrial and installations like in the video.
Looks great! I am a little put off by the lack of pre curved junctions we’re not used on the cable conduits, makes for a neater install. I also find it unusual that you did not use individual color coded conductors in the conduits but use a totally enclosed cable. German electrical code? I do like the Hager raceways and the various accessories for electric distribution. Funny they are not available in the Hager catalogue here in Greece, there are other brands but I do not like the profiles offered. I do like the Hager power panels and the accessories used to hook up the circuits. Very neat install. It is unusual to see fuses used to protect the mains at the entry point in the panel box. Fuses in the states went obsolete 40+ years ago. My home here in Greece has fuses in the basement level panel but we finished the two panels in the upper two floors with Automatic breakers and all three levels have each a GFCI protecting the panel. Have you considered power outage lights for both rooms in the garage? Perhaps a line interactive UPS for the door opener, again in case of power failure? I personally hate getting out of my car during a heavy rainstorm to release the garage door from the lift to get the car in. Hopefully you will run several power conduits underground (if permitted by the DEC ) to accommodate security system, cameras ( don’t trust wireless cameras ), telephone lines or internet wiring. I also have a interesting question, Does one have to be a licensed electrician to purchase electrical equipment such as circuit breakers, distribution panels and associated equipment in Germany? Might make a great follow up video short as to some of the rules and regulations that are in the German laws, always interested in what’s Code in other countries.
We in Germany don't get power failure due to just some bad weather in situations where you don't have other way bigger problems like flooding or tornado-grade destruction of homes/roads.
My understanding is that you can just buy these things freely, though some specialty shops limit clients to businesses as they don't want to deal with amateurs as customers. It's even legal to wire yourself, you just aren't allowed to hook anything up to mains without a licensed electrician signing off on it. It might also be forbidden to sell wiring services to others if you're not a licensed electrician, but not sure.
Since the cable used (NYM) is already double insulated you dont need to fully enclose the cable. If he had used individual wires those bends would have been required. But running single wires is usually not done here. You are allowed to do it but its just not common.
I'm an electrician from Australia and use Hager gear as well, the set up looks very well thought out. I would have the conduit differently, though for the coners, I would have either used 90-degree bends, corrugated conduit, or a bending spring and bent the conduit. Then, I would have had the conduit continue into the ducting and J boxes using plain to screw adapters so there are no cables showing.
open bends are allowd with use of cable, its just a faster way of installation and sleeker look the nailing it down every 25 cm. the use of 90-degree bends or corrugated conduit is a not done as a profesional dutch electrician.
We basically use the same cable in Finland but we can only put 10A fuse on 1.5mm2, 16A on 2.5mm2 and about 35A on 10mm2 with some exceptions. Also we are allowed to use N (blue) for switches and phases but usually people use black marker pen on it or tape it a bit to show it isn't a neutral.
In Italy with fuses is the same thing, we can't use neutral for fase, is forbidden to use blue wire for everything different from neutral. Another thing we don't use are rigid copper cables.
Congratulations! It looks awesome, 99% same as mine :) the only difference is that along with the sockets in the Brüstungskanal I installed 6A breakers. Not only for extra protection, I can turn the sockets on/off using these breakers.
![[#2024MAMA] G-DRAGON - 무제(Untitled, 2014)+POWER+HOME SWEET HOME+뱅뱅뱅+FANTASTIC BABY | Mnet 241123 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ox29z5Nf1Uk/mqdefault.jpg)
Small Corrections: The CEE socket can supply 11kW. I wanted to keep it simple and keep the sqrt out of there but that just messed everything up. And secondly the power required by the relay is not around 60W. Maybe something around 20W. I mixed up some values in the datasheet. Sorry.
You can pin this comment so it appears on top of the other comments.
wish i knew anything about EE, I could build my own electronics cabinet for my cnc instead of buying an overpriced pre-made one
No, it will not consume 20W. Read the specifications. Operating consumption is listed as 5.75W. Which, assuming 0.20€ per kWh, would be about 10 euros per year.
The "around 20W" you probably have in mind is the "power loss under IN" where I stands for current and N stands for nominal. And the rated current for these ESC463/464 is 63A.
So, when you're pulling the rated current through this contactor, that's the amount of power lost inside the contactor if you were to pull the maximum (44kW) amount of power through it. This power loss is insignificant in comparison to the power pulled through the contactor.
yeah it is 400v*16A*wurzel(3) With out square root you could say 3p*16a*230v thats also 11kw
You cought that quickly.
Thanks to Herr Schmidt from my Berufsschule I will never forget 1.73 and 1.41 :D
My Dad would have loved this. His mains connections boxes were works of art - everything super neat and ordered, and he'd leave extensive notes for the next electrician. He did wiring for new houses, rewiring for older houses (climbing through roofs was awful in the Australian heat, I don't know how he did it), 3 phase workshop and factory installations, and he worked for a long time on the huge pumps that drove the water supplies. I think he would appreciate the attention to detail here.
You're using the Past Tense here. Is he dead now?
Hi Paolo, your name caught my attention… may I ask if you have Italian ancestors, by chance?
Cheers from Brisbane
@@igorello74 Could've retired.
As someone who lives in and is from the USA this makes our electrical system look and feel ancient. I really wish the us would adopt things such as the metric system and electrical system like those in Germany.
Why? What does it look like in the US?
@@AATproducer Usually better than watch?v=YmzGmQ7bkVw and even NASA sometimes puts random imperial units into their space stuff, with deadly results.
Yes but THE WHOLE WORLD knows that the quality and technology levels in the US are FAR FAR behind the rest of the world. I mean you guys STILL BUY CHRYSLERS ffs...
@@OffGridInvestor Maybe the quality of care is better if most keep paying for it in the USA instead of Cuba, Canada, Spain, etc.
@@OffGridInvestor 😂😂😂 I know right, why the hell would someone still buy Chrysler products
I love how the distribution board ended up looking. The surface mounted plastic ducts for the conductors looks so nice. Nice touch of german attention to detail design.
You know you are in Deutschland when you have to censor your Nachbars Haus because of Datenschutz.
Just so you know, the power consumption of your contactor is actually 5.75W, the 62.5W figure you mentioned is the in-rush power (when it first energises) but it only draws that for a fraction of a second. So you'll only use 0.14kW per day if you left it permanently energised.
Thanks, I just looked for this comment, as few months ago I used same hager 4p 63A relay, and remember that power consumption was near 6 watts. 👍
Not an inconsiderable sum with the cost of electric these days. That still adds up to $25 per year for one single contactor. Crazy.
Best option would be to use a "Unterspannungsauslöser" or under voltage trigger module for the main RCD
That’s calculated the same as the rating on my 6hp vacuum. That’s 4.4kw with 100% efficiency when the circuit is 15A@120V is not even capable of anything past 3.6kW and is against code to continuously supply more than 2.9.
Im glad you said this, when I heard 63w, i was like wtf that doesnt sound like any relay Ive used, you would need a dam heat sink on that relay at a constant 63w.
I love to see a European electrical installation on youtube for once. I think this shows many other people the way how it's done over in Europe as I don't think many know how different it is. Great video and great work on your electrical installation. It looks very clean, the way I like it :) Keep up the great video's man!
wiki: "Elektrotechnische verdeelinrichting", that's how it's done in the Netherlands.
the Dutch super seed the Germans. extreme in some cases, as the dutch have a international recognized elektro testing brand: Kema Keur.
al wires through the walls are in tubes, junction boxes, easy to extent on a later date. a higher grade than Germany.
@@AnalogDude_ I live in Belgium and I've seen many Dutch electrical installations and I have to say that most of them are super super bad and old.
@@Rein-hg9in some are, if the house is old.
also depends if the house is owned or rented.
But in general it's better executed than other countries using tubes in the walls.
i did some electrical technical work in Belgium, the Belgs are extreme to, where it's obligated to have the blue/brown wire on a certain pin of the socket.
: )
the NEN1010 is the electro technical law.
i had to write/copy entire sections on paper when i was at school.
the house i live in 30 years old and has additional free tubes in the walls to extend or add things, even having a pull wire in them.
But it also depends on who did the installation, not all are honest and are just interested in making money, but i have worked for some that toke it very serious and delivered extreme quality, also the company who gave the assignment could be someone that doesn't care, as long as it works.
Its not that rare to see how non-NorAm installations are done. For the record though, even being part German myself and having served in W. Germany, I think it look particularly fugly.
Technically, its great, but just looks butt ugly. Having the garage be concrete though is a nice burn-proof idea though. If it were my project, and thinking about it for all of 2 minutes, I'd run those chases at the wall ceiling, and drop them half-way down the wall where I wanted each outlet. Any tool I've ever used comes with at least a 2 meter cord, and when working at the bench there is invariably 3-4' of excess cord in the way.
High outlets allow you to push table top equipment to the wall, and could run tool storage on the wall between the outlet drops.
A lot of countries just use the US electrical system, and i personally think it sucks in every way.
They don't have rcd (a gfci won't save you in any other part of the circuit); they use 110v, they need more amps and still get lower power; with 2 phase for 220v, how do they run tri phase electric motors?; They use metal conduits and electric boxes (in a wooden house, that's just asking for a fire to happen); the breakers only cut the live, not the neutral (at least for individual circuits); they use wire nuts (with the higher amps, the worst you can do is increase resistance); and the plugs are unsafe.
I don't know of any worse system than that, my country uses the austalian system (or very close to it), and the only thing that i'm not sure if it improves on, is the wire nuts (generally, we use plugs or switches to conect wires together, if it's not posible, we twist them together, and they contact each other way more than in the video showing wire nuts vs wago, i'd still import wago conectors if i was starting a new domestic install for my own house)
If you want to carry long heavy objects by yourself easier just mount a couple of wheels on a piece of plywood and line the other side with some non scratching material like leftover soft carpet. Put one side of your heavy objects on the plywood and carry the other side. You'd be surprised how much easier it is then :)
Thanks for the tip :-)
the name for such a use is "travois"... we used to make them regularly in Boy Scouts for hauling gear into remote campsites, etc
It's called "Rollbrett" in Germany
Do you mean this thing called a skateboard?? 🛹😉
@@jimurrata6785 well, I wouldn't put a nice finished table top on a skateboard :)
What a time to be alive where you can just order a concrete box and have an instant garage. They even have house kits where they'll just crane the pieces into place and done. The fact that it has a pre-installed window in that concrete box is the cherry on top. For that matter, they do have some companies that are experimenting with 3D printing concrete houses, and even putting insulation in the walls. I know they had house kits in the 1800's, but for the longest time such things were niche, now it's so much easier and more accessible.
And a lot of those Sears kit houses are still around and in use as well.
Concrete-Box garages are more or less Standard in Germany since 50 years.
@@mdk-wc2sw I find it interesting the roof drains are run inside the space.
Can you explain to this American why they do that?
@@jimurrata6785 Well, I would guess that - because the roof is "integrated" in the garage itself - which means that the roof is formed by just the roof plate being lowered maybe 3 inces below the top ends of the wall, forming kind of a "tub", it's jsut the easiest way to drain the roof. Thus, it gives you the possibility to stack the garages just wall to wall (no matter if sidewall or backwall) to form "garage yards" (also common in residential areas here) without the need for spacing.
@@mdk-wc2sw 🤔 I understand now how locating it inside would be advantageous.
I wasn't thinking about stacking them tight, perhaps because this one is shown out in the open.
Thanks for your reply!
For electronic bench wiring in the USA the approach is a little different, which in the USA is NEC (electric code) dependent but also the installation is considered specialized, meaning it falls more under industrial than residential. For electronic / electrical bench design, the goal is to have all of the wiring encased (surrounded) by metal. So from the drop to the breaker panel to the outlets you will see either EMT (electrical metallic tubing) or RMC (Rigid Metal Conduit which is threaded pipe). I like RMC but it is harder to cut and bend than EMT and you have to thread it. RMC threaded connections are sealed using copper based sealant to prevent water intrusion but also maintain a good electrical connection. The conduit is used as a sort of continuous shield and crush protection, but not to conduct ground fault current, meaning it does not replace a grounded conductor, however it is still ground referenced in case a hot wire comes in contact with the conduit. Which makes the electronic bench installation unique (also seen in music recording studios) because many times for motor controls the metal conduit is used as protective earth so you can omit the earth protective ground wire in the conduit.
Also, traditionally the bench outlets, usually metal quad boxes (two GFCI duplex receptacles in the same metal box) are stagger as three 120 VAC, 20 Amp circuits along the bench. So, as you go around the bench the quad box circuits would be 1, 2, and 3, and then go back to 1. This is done so if one of the circuits overload you will not loose the whole bench. All are fed using circuit breakers. The wiring is stranded copper. Connections to the outlets are done using captive spade lugs to the receptacles and the screws torqued to spec. You can also buy GFCI outlet that already have a stranded pigtails attached so you can use a wire-nut, WAGO splices are rarely used for electronic benches. All of the bench test equipment is grounded. To test hot chassis power supplies and equipment you have to have an AC isolation transformer to float the mains and the safety ground as an option. Generally, for most manufacturers you will see two types of AC power supplies, one used for troubleshooting (field returns) and one used for testing (after it has been repaired and calibrated). Usually, there is a field return test bench and separate out-going equipment test bench, each is set up different for the different tasks.
You must add ESD grounding connections to metal tables if used, ESD pads and ESD floor mats. I like to use a tin plated threaded copper grounding bus bars on isolated mounts with copper (or brass) nuts and washers. This ESD earth ground can be external to the metal conduit. You can run a separate grounding cable (6 AWG) in plastic conduit back to the earth grounding in the mains panel. Make sure this connection has no breaks or splices from the bus bar to the panel.
You germans are in another level in electrical instalations... i´m a mexican civil engineer student and an electricity enthusiast and i hope to go to Germany in near future to learn about your magnificent engineering techniques. Excellent videos!!
Nice project and congrats on the start of building your home. My suggestion would be, if time allowed, is labeling your wires at your substation panel. Not sure if you plan on doing that, but it would help for when you go back and add new construction or for trouble shooting.
Yes. I will do that in the future
@@greatscottlab we all will. Soon(tm) 😅😅
A networking tip I see, and definitely agree.
I'm doing this for a smaller scale project (a 3D printer at work). Zip-ties with a little tag attached were my choice for this project.
Exactly - I myself did this when setting up my LAN-Network (yes: I am one of those guys who don't think WiFi is super great, especially for gaming!)...I know where each wire leads as they are labeled!
@@Kalvinjj I hate flags 😠
You can get shrink tube for a P-touch labeler.
It's what we use over here, neat & durable.
Ausgezeichnet!!! As an electrician in the States, it was great to see how things are done in Germany.
When my brother and sister-in-law built their house in Germany, I was amazed with his electric panel: 400V 3-phase (much more power than our split-phase 240 V panel)! It even had a built-in timing relay to control the Schwibbogen!!!
Considering just 3% of homes in Germany even has air conditioning I'm trying to fathom why they would even need 400v 3 phase. Sure, it means you could use thinner wiring as the amperage will be lower but it also means the actual copper wire is more susceptible to damage.
@@Cerberus984 we use it mostly for our heaters and for the stove
@@Cerberus984 what causes the damage ??? 😅
@@Cerberus984with 3 phases you can power electrical stoves easily with 5x1.5 mm2 fused with 16A per phase.. With 120V you need much higher mm2.
@@thorstenjaspert9394 in the UK we generally would run 240 V for heating things just because three phases available but so many of our homes are older appliances generally up all single face but we still need to include really thick wires even if it was run three phase so the saving of wire size may not always be the case
Hello, congratulations on the excellent electrical installation, I was once an electrical installation inspector here in Portugal. Around here we use the same materials and the same brands. Here we do not mix sockets and lighting in the same circuit, not for safety reasons (as long as it is guaranteed) but for legal reasons. If there is any repair to be done (and I'm being nitpicky) it's just the location of the electrical panel, here in Portugal we do our best to always install it near the entrance to the building, to allow maneuvers in case of an accident inside, but as I said I'm being extremely picky. Once again congratulations on the excellent work!
Thanks for the feedback. Nice insight
It's also nice to keep them separate so you can still see at night when you trip a breaker with your tools / kettle / etc.
It is not mandatory here in germany but highly recommended by officials
Here in UK, we to separate lights and power outlets. U have fuse box with many fuses isolating different parts of the house.
Yeah, you still have lights if you trip the breaker for outlets, that's one advantage.
A few days ago I was installing sonoff relays inside my light switch boxes and as it turned out my cables are soldered together. Thanks to all the lights being on a separate circuit/breaker I could easily plug my soldering iron. And the food in my fridge didn't go bad.
I used a shunt trip in a safety circuit like this. When the e stop is pressed the shunt trip mechanically trips the main switch / circuit breaker / rcd. There is no idle current. Requires a physical reset once the emergency situation is rectified. Works well
You could add a pushbutton and green light to turn on your work bench. Then switch the relay operation around as it should be. This will then consume the additional power only when the circuit is active anyway. It will also function as safety in case of power outages to prevent equipment from starting unintentionally.
It’s cool to see how wiring in homes in Europe gets done compared to the USA. It seems like there’s a lot more customization available compared to panels in the USA. Seems closer to how we wire panels at my work building automation equipment.
Germany not Europe
that panel is definitely an oddball compared to a regular mainland europe panel in a residence.
But yeah the DIN rail system (the standardized metal rails at the back of the panel) is great for customizing how your panel gets laid out. In the US you will only see those in electrical panel that primarily control things in a industrial/commercial setting.
well that relay is also used in the industry.
@@liam4249 Germany is both in the EU and also western Europe, not sure why you think it isnt, whilst what is shown isnt representable for all of Europe it is certainly done across multiple European countries
@@ratchet1freak Where you from ?
Only thing I would pick on is the half completed conduit.
European rules are somewhat similar to ours, so yes I'm aware that it's not required, however having all of the corners just left out just looks dodgy.
A few bits of corro (flexible corrugated conduit) would seal everything up, give a bit of additional mechanical protection at those corners and just make it look neat.
I’m an Industrial electrician and work with safety critical circuits every day. I really like that you implemented a two safety switches but there some way of improvement without sacrificing massive energy losses. Safety switches normally use two independent opening switches called channel one and two. Those chanels are interconnected through every switch used in this safety circuit. Those are then wired into a so called safety relay(sicherheitsrelais in deutsch hersteller da vor allem Pilz, Wieland und Siemens ) those Monitor constantly if the two channels are interrupted or shorted together. If one of them fails they shut of a relay output and have to be reset via another pushbutton or keyswitch. Paired with an 3 phase contactor (leistungsschütz) they provide a very secure system. Those industrial 24V contactors are way more energy efficient then the one in the video. As an example a Sirius 3RT2025 draws 5.9W even with an additional power supply and safety relay thats way below the 62w of the hager relay
This is how we do it in Australia too, also usually with the German brands.
Cool vid. As an American who did remodels in college it's always very interesting to see European construction VS US.
@phillipbanes5484 good job buddy
@@phillipbanes5484 just how it shows up, not sure..
Such a satisfying job you did! Awesome! One small remark though as industrial engineer; it is not considered safe to wire emergency stops in parallel, you should wire them in series with NC contacts so that if one of them is punched you are 100% sure you have no more current. Anyhow, for personal stuff it won't give yopu any trouble.
Nice setup! This is not for the same situation but when I set up and EMO circuit for an automation device I used a “safety relay” which requires an additional reset switch before power can be turned back on.
Thanks for the feedback. Yep. That sounds reasonable.
Instead of using the relay for your emergency stop, you could use an RCD with an undervoltage release (Unterspannungsauslöser). Thats how they did it for the new buildung my school got.
You get the cable break protection with only a stand-by power consumption of < 10 VA (depending on the model)
no, better is to use shunt trip like hager mz203. It only draws power when activated.
@@avckubw938v1bnvowiqv Well, if you do that, you loose the cable-break protection again, but you don't need to buy a separate relay because you need a circuit breaker anyway.
You should probably use a safety relay and proper protection circuitry like a monitor things like the emergency stop and flag alarms if there are issues happening they could be integrated with similar systems
Tip for the emergency stop. You can always wire in a small LED parallel to the main and the neutral on the steering side of the relay to show that there is voltage across the LED, even though the relay is not triggered.
Thanks for the tip :-)
Please explain the circuit for "just wiring in an LED"?
@@mrtechie6810 there are e-stop buttons that can have an integrated LED, for example from Eaton. They also have Signal LED Modules that run on 230 Volts.
@@SystemX1983 how much$?
@@mrtechie6810 around 11-17€, depends where you buy them. Also, Siemens has a similar System
To everyone asking why the cable wasnt completely enclosed in the conduit with bends and such:
In germany electrical wiring needs to be double insulated. In this case the cable itself already is, so in theory he could have just nailed it directly to the walls with some clips, not needing the conduits at all.
Had he run single wires, then he would have needed to enclose the wires in conduit the whole way. But running single wires in conduit, while allowed, is not usually done here.
i was thinking about that myself, even if its not needed i think is makes the whole install look DIY when conduit stops and starts. If i did that during my apprenticeship in the uk, i would have got it in the neck. I think as its not really any extra work to install bends and bush and couplers in the trunking and conduit its worth it to look, not DIY
@@maynardholt8935 Well we are cheapskates, nobody here will pay for the extra material and labor if it isn't required by code.
Also those are even a little challenging to come by, usually that's not something in stock and ordered.
Call us lazy, go ahead, won't blame ya 🤣
@@maynardholt8935 I agree. The lack of couplers into the main duct and also to each device really triggered me. I'm not a sparky (my career was in electronic design) but it makes the whole thing look incomplete. The same goes for the bends between sections of conduit, especially as the cable transitions from wall to ceiling. And I understand the double insulation point, but it just looks bad.
That still raises questions in the UK we were generally connect the conduit to the box even if we used double insulated cable the reason is if the cat conjuring is installed for protecting the cable directly above a switch or socket is the most likely paste it could get damaged because it’s the place you’re touching a lotall the height you would lean something against the wall if a conduit is installed simply for mounting the cable as it’s easier than clips that would be fine but he doesn’t really offer lots of protection
@@maynardholt8935 I think that’s because in the UK we still going to protect the cable here it seems to be easier than clipping it as I don’t think clips are super common in Germany
just for info: you are allowed to use the blue wire for other stuff than the neutral wire. Just the green/yellow one has to be the PE
7:56 - The 62.5 is only in the short period when the device closes. Holding it closed is only 7W according to the datasheet provided by Hager.
I knew it felt off having a relay coil draw that much continuously
Can you give me a link? The way it heated up while being activate clearly didn't feel like just 7W.
@GreatScott! According to their website the operating consumption of the coil is 5.75W.
62.5W is the inrush power to close the relay.
If you really wanted to follow the industry standard everything should be redundant (2 contacts per E-stop and 2 relays for the power) but it seems to be a bit overkill for a garage.
At least having something is beter than nothing and E-stop are a great addition for a consumer's workshop so great idea an keep going !
@@greatscottlab Link? You can just measure that with your Gossen Metrawatt. But yes, above is true, AC coil contactors takes 10 times more power to close, when magnetic circuit is closed it takes much less. 63W in such small device will melt it down.
@@greatscottlab 62.5 watts in a tiny coil inside a plastic enclosure the size of a fist without active cooling would be very hot. Think how hot modern CPU's run with their included tiny heatsinks under a full synthetic load. Now imagine stopping the fan, would you dare touch that heatsink after a couple of minutes?
Though to be fair, the CPU would (eventually) thermal throttle when it reaches TJmax and it's clock speed would drop like a rock therefore it's power consumption would drop as well. But even then that heatsink would be unbearably hot to touch.
And obviously a heatsink is made of metal which conducts heat way better than plastic.
A normal candle is supposedly around 80W of heat energy just as an example.
But you've got testing equipment. Measure the power draw?
When I did my lab / home office, I used conduit to mount sockets as well. I did take the opportunity to wire a whole load of network sockets, and wire them back to a mini 19 inch rack. I also wired satellite feeds, a bit of good gauge cable for surround sound loudspeakers and the TV / computer displays, along with a home cinema amp to do the switching.
yea I'd use conduit, armored cable and steel J boxes. if I accidentally hit it with an air rifle (or smash it with something) it's not gonna shatter, plus harder for mice to live in.
Im from germany and learing Electrician. I am at 95% from my apprenticeship so in my last half Year (3/3,5). I have to say that the result is very clean and tidy. So Yes the Cables could a bit more straight so horizontally and vertically, then i think it would be 100% perfect. Nice Job!
Absolutely beautiful! The only thing that I did differently in my workshop was to use cable tray instead of the plastic conduit. I love how it looks and it is also super flexible when adding new cables or switchboxes etc!
Ach als gelernter Elektroniker für Betriebstechnik geht mir da doch wirklich ein Herz auf ❤
Hab tatsächlich bei dem Schaltplan kurz gestutzt als du die Notausschaltung erklärt hast und mir gedacht „eigentlich sollten das Öffner Kontakte im Notaus sein“ aber da hast du recht, das sollte sicher genug sein😌
Wenn man nach dem Industriestandard geht, müsste man bei einer Notabschaltung über Relais bzw. Eines Schütz noch Maßnahmen gegen verkleben der Kontakte unternehmen aber das wäre wirklich Zuviel für eine kleine Garage mit Werkbank ^^
Weiter so!
Sehe ich genauso, 60 Watt durchgehend wäre definitiv Energieverschwendung.
I just love those phoenix connectors, they are so easy to work with
Agree :-)
@@greatscottlab If only they weren't so expensive. When I needed them for our house even the basic PTTBS/1,5 ones were at around 85 cents each.
@@vbinsider It's industrial equipment. Pricing will always be higher.
I wish we had a lot of this stuff in the US. Your buddy does such clean work, love it!
Nothing stopping you from using a lot of this stuff, if you don't mind the expense. Parents house is 60 years old, brick ranch with wood framing/drywall inside. Electrical is standarm 120v single-phase, with wiring to outlets run inside the walls with metal plates on the 2x4 where the hole is, against the inside of the drywall.
Simple ROMEX wire, wirenuts, and junction boxes at the outlets.
No fires, no rewiring needed, no fatalities from hanging pictures/tv's, etc, etc.
My career has been network infrastructure in biotech and pharma/R&D, where network cable has been specc'ed for conduit along with electrical in production and other areas.
Requiring conduit in the home setting seems a bit absurd. Maybe it because you've got 3-phase 250v and nailing a picture frame is actually liable to kill you, but once you've run your outlets and lights, having conduit/pull-strings available while nice, I'm doubtful is really that useful or a selling point.
If you end up doing a remod or extension, you're going to have demo access anyways, so thats not a good excuse/selling point.
It WOULD be nice to have 10-12Kw available normally though, especially for the shop. However in general use, 240v split phase seems to work for US/Canada fairly well enough for the stove/washer-dryer that they are generally used for.
120v from the a or b side for lights and simple appliances, and no need for conduit. Tidy wiring is always nice though.
@@boots7859 ...also when done correctly (back spacing from the back side of the wall), typical wiring is back far enough that unless you're foolishly driving a spike into the wall without locating a stud (in which case plastic conduit won't save you, and perhaps metal won't either)...just about every wall hanging hardware barely protrudes past the wall board...
...a lot of the stuff they (Europe) is a bit overkill...especially those 'wago' (sp?) connectors...they remind me of those spring type terminal blocks that I find in EU machines that I fix...GARBAGE!...you need to have a positive clamping device (screw terminal) as you can re-tighten as needed...overtime, friction based terminal blocks WILL weaken, get hotter and cause issues...sure they take longer to install, but it's well worth the 'piece of mind'...
The only thing that I like that they use is the cable...I hate running ROMEX or BX cable.....but sum up what you mention, 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'...I work on industrial gear (millwright) for a living, and no offence to EU gear, but it's always being dicked with in the name of 'efficiency' .....problem is, that most of it doesn't last as long, and what good is 'efficiency' if you have to go out an buy a new one?
Boots I think Europe runs alot of conduit because alot of their homes are made of concrete or brick and they don't have hollow walls. Obviously if they require conduit inside a wall that's silly. Plastic conduit isn't going to stop a nail or screw from hitting a wire behind it. Anything that is going to be nailed/screwed into a wall that goes deep enough to potentially hit a wire will be attached to a stud and they have steel caps that go over the stud making it next to impossible to hit a wire unless you are just so dumb you keep drilling after you hit thick metal.
@@angusandleigh "you need to have a positive clamping device (screw terminal) as you can re-tighten as needed...overtime, friction based terminal blocks WILL weaken" Thats just not true. They will withstand vibrations and temperature changes. Screwterminals are a thing of the past atleast for small wire gauges. Why do you have to re-tighten screw terminals? -vibrations? -temperature changes? -too much torque on first installation and deformed conductor? Let me guess you are still using wire nuts in junction boxes and think thats the way to go? Or using screwterminals on stranded wires without ferrule and think its fine? Btw i'am also electrian on industrial machines with 20 years of experience.
@@Awacs1985 ...especially on industrial gear it is absolutely true...I have had to deal with more control wiring issues with friction connections...I have never had to replace a screw terminal as they can be tightened over time...heat and vibration are the enemy to any friction terminal. High quality industrial machines more often than not still use screw terminals because they WORK, no need to reinvent the wheel.
As a matter of fact I do still use wire nuts with HT insulation because not everything has a terminal block...space permitted like say on a motor etc. they work just fine...and for solid core wire they are better than terminal block as they are stronger and there is no strain on them...if I'm using stranded wire, then sure a TB is nicer, but it will be a screw block...
...I'm a 20 year Millwright, and I've had to correct a lot of sparky jobs or factory designs because they aren't robust enough. I have rebuilt many control panels...I have replaced many friction blocks with screw blocks because the former were no longer up to the task. You just can't beat positive affixation...especially where heat an vibration is concerned.
Friction blocks are only superior as you don't have to 'maintain' them...buts that's just laziness...you should always be inspecting things so there are no surprises, every year or less each machine that I look after gets re-torqued...and I've never had a failure.
For my workbench I installed a 6 foot long outlet strip above and below the workbench. That way I can connect as many tools as necessary where I need to. I probably only use one tool at a time, but it's very convenient to just leave them all plugged in. Under the workbench I have a shelf with power tools always plugged in, like a drill, Dremel, heat gun, glue gun, oscillating tool and more. When I need something, just pull it out and use it.
Most beautiful handwriting by a handyman
Sooo neat. Tells me that the electrician really cared about what he was doing. The details are so important. Thank you so much. I would like to learn more about how you do wiring in Germany. Salute from Ohio, USA.
First congrats for your new place, consider before it's too late to run CAT 6 cable next to power sockets and collect them all to one corner so later you can do a small lan network , or you can even install a small rack for your lab.
I think those ducts are a fantastic idea but I would have also tried to get a couple of normal outlets in the wall that are located under the tables for those plugs you never really unplug. I am definitely going to implement the power ducts in my dream lab set-up!
Thanks for the feedback :-)
@@greatscottlab Thank you for the new ideas running through my head! Amazing content as always, thank you!
Not only "under the table" but also add a number of RJ45 outlets and maybe a few power outlets in a different color, connected to a UPS.
Having RJ45 outlets everywhere is absolutely a win-win. Even though you might not yet have them patched to a switch yet. Just wire them to a patch panel near your switch(es) so you can "enable" them by patching them when needed. Also manual switching between switches (e.g. 2.5G/10G) or VLAN ports is really useful when you ever decide to use managed switches and have fallen in love with the truly nice features VLANs have to offer :) )
Maybe also one or two mains outlets connected to their own earth breaker ("aardlekschakelaar" in Dutch) with a lower than the standard 30 mA threshold so you can connect test devices to it which might otherwise be tripping the breaker for a lot more devices.
Those are very commonly used in public spaces like schools. Also in offices and other bog buildings in Finland
@@TD-er With these wallmount system, it's so easy to just run 20 cables to a patchpanel in a small 19" Rack and switch and pull one cable into the house to the main switch (Fiber FTW :D)
That is a very professional and clean setup, thumbs up to you and your electrician friend!
It amazes me that in Italy we have modular sockets for power and controls everywhere for more than 30 years, the most famous modular systems are made by BTicino and Vimar, but in the rest of EU are not so common.
Proper planning, execution with attention to detail, and being tidy solves most wiring problems. I used to manage physical plant installations for large server/pc systems and anyone who came to work that did tasks in a shoddy fashion was gone before lunch. Saved time and resources in the contract arc.
I'm not sure what your plans are for your CEE outlet but you might consider wiring the outlet to a relay that seals in with a start stop button. The buttons would allow you to de-energize and energize the outlet safely and if you have a power outage the relay would drop out and not allow the outlet to be re-energized when the power comes back on until the start button is pressed. We did this with the outlets on our motor test bench at work.
makes no sense, just pull the plug and most machines you connect, have already a main switch...dont get overboard....there is an RCD!
I'm from Ethiopia and I like it I love it it's beautiful
Thank you :-)
Beautiful work. Great to see the German approach to a shed. Wonderful stuff.
Thanks 🙂We gave it our best.
@@greatscottlab
Hi,
Is it common to use electrical wires like that in combination with PVC pipes in Germany?
Here in NL (as far as I know) single wires for each fase + a ground wire would be used within PVC pipes. Those wires would also have solid cores. Also the wires would be fully enclosed with PVC pipes and junction boxes.
I would associate the ones that you used with extension cords.
I’m just curious, thanks.
i like how the first time i heard about wago terminals was on your channel, so they are pronounced "vah-go" in my head, and when h heard an american talking about "way-go" terminals, it took me a long time to realise what they were talking about. but "vah-go" is always going to be correct in my head
Glad I could help with that :-)
Hello sir. Congratulations on your new side. I love your channel I’m a big fan of your also always I like how germans do their electrical system. From Albania 🇦🇱
This is very educational. I hold citizenship in both the U.S. and Europe (Italy), and find the differences in our electrical systems enormous. Thank you for sharing this. I have a lot of experience with the north american systems, but none in the european systems.
me is the opposite, and i am glad not to work in the USA, its much more easy here, just drill a round hole into the wall, switch box in, switch in, ready! and 230/400V in every house.... i never understood your 115V/220V, up to the moment i saw the wooden poles with the power cables, its like in a 3rd world country to my place....everything is underground, power, phone and TV!
i really like the idea of an Estop in the workshop, though I would recommend going the extra mile and use two channels with separate relays and NC contacts.
To reduce power consumption you could simply push the Estop when you leave the workshop :)
If you don't want that, at least do a function check every time before you use your workshop.
Also, having one Estop actuator is nice, but more would make sense so you can reach one from wherever you are
Yeah, in my little world that e-stop design would be totally unacceptable. Trading proper design for saving 63 watts is just dumb. Normally closed buttons, normally energized contactor. Double it all up (2 e-stop redundant loops) if you wanna get all euro with it.
Yeah, I use my estop as a general-purpose master switch. (saves on the latent draw of the various devices too if you want to be conscious of power usage)
@@sootikins I think the e-stop was mostly a "nice to have" and not a require safety feature in this case. With german electricity prices saving 63 watts of draw can mean >350€ extra electricity costs per year.
@@Esablaka I agree. I was more just wanting to run my mouth than anything. Somebody has to be Safety Sally here - LOL. So by your math German power costs about 0.63€/KWh. Not that shocking. In my part of USA the power companies have all gone "green" causing rates to skyrocket. I pay $0.33/KWh off peak times and $0.67/KWh on peak.
Automated equipment I'm used to had two "lines" in the E-STOP loop. One normally "OPEN" and one "CLOSED". BOTH had to be correct in order to function. ALL E-Stops were then in SERIES.
nice video!
A few things, first, I would have limited the use of spring loaded connectors, especially on the 400V, screw terminals may a bit more pain, because they need tightening ideally once a year, but I think they are more secure than spring loaded (if they come loose, you have to replace the whole device).
Adding a few RJ45 sockets in the modular wall conduits wouldn't be too much I think, it's better than trying to catch the Wi-Fi from the house through the concrete walls, plus, that would limit radio emissions too and that would be nice if you try yourself on wireless projects.
For the emergency stop button, swapping the relay for a security relay is a must, your standard relay doesn't give you the guarantee that it will break the circuit if he got damaged (a short or any type of over-current can easily weld the contacts together) a dedicated security relay will break the circuit permanently if the power module get damaged and the automatic reset of the emergency relay on the NO contacts is a bit risky I think, you have no means to know if the fault still there or a device is still powered, a manual reset next to the door would add the extra step to ensure everything is safe before closing the circuit. I think Schneider make safety relays that include a surveillance module (maybe Häger too, but I don't know their catalog enough), with emergency stop and reset loops and a protected power module that hook the mains right after the fuses and breaker, they are probably more expensive, but I think they worth it.
Just out of curiosity, why the diazed fuses? I thought they were progressively phased out in Europe, is it a standard still very present in Germany? last time I saw this type of fuses, it was on a 30 year old machine, it was a pain to get new fuses and very expensive compared to similar 10x38 cartridges.
That's all I could think of, I hope I didn't come as arrogant or aggressive, English isn't my first language and I was told that sometimes I may come as a bit obnoxious, I assure you it's not my intentions :)
I'm no electrician. But i think the diazed fuses are better for high inrush current. The standard automatic breakers (C- characteristic) can more easily trip from starting motors, pumps, angle grinders etc. It is still widely used believe 😀
Indeed, as Eytaris wrote for emergency off you cannot use a Standard relay! You need special safety relay. On a Standard relay there is the possibility that that contacts Stick together due to arcing. Therefore you need to use safety relay.
Diazed fuses are still used as "main fuses" protecting the whole circuit; automatic breakers are then used in each sub-circuit. The idea is that the automatic breakers will catch any fault in normal conditions and if the diazed fuses should blow you really do have a real problem to solve. They used to be commonplace as normal circuit breakers, but those days have long since gone by.
I agree on safety relays, and in most places, you actually need two of those in a row (one opening, one closing) to prevent sticky contacts from arcs ever happening. Also, you should not only break the L1, L2 and L3 phases, but also the N neutral (but never the PE protective earth). Usually, safety realys will have four contacts exactly for this reason. Also, in a new installation involving 400V CEE outlets, one should have an automatic disconnect in case of power failure; this prevents an uncontrolled inrush current into any devices connected if the power returns. This requires switching the supply on manually, which is a minor nuisance, but a tremenduous safety improvement.
Hi, I also agree regarding the use of a true safety relay. Btw. The 64W will be drawn only for a short time, then it will drop below 6W or so.
The datasheet sadly isnt´t clear in this. A comparable SCHNEIDER GC6304M5 Relay shows: Anzugsleistung 53VA, Halteleistung 6.4VA but only 2.1W of true power.
German Electrician here, although im NOT perfectly aware of the exact ruleset (VDE). You are righ, Diazed fuses are hard to find, thats because we have Neozed fuses. They are always the same size (Volume) in different ratings, so a 6A Neozed fuse is the same size as a 63A fuse. And yes they are used as main fuses befor a RCD or longer wire parts with higher diamater for more Power. Fuses and RCD's should always be selective, meaning you lower your rating the lower your go. NEVER put a higher or same rating fuse or RCD behind each other. So after a 35A Neozed fuse you go through a 40A (max) RCD, to your 16A breaker. Ask if you want to know some more :)
For endings and corners of cable pipes, use protective ribbed hoses (wire loom) that fit into the canal. This hides cables, and protects them in those places (important close to workbench).
I was also surprised that the cable was left unprotected. I assumed they were going to finish it, but left it like that. It is my only complain, and otherwise a very very neat job.
I am not sure why, but unprotected endings and corners are common in Germany.
@@JackNorthNexus The cable is double-insulated. Using conduit is not required at all.
the pvc pipes are only there to hold the cable in its place, the cable is double insulated
Ohne Frage haben Sie die besten elekronischen Videos die ich jemals gesehen habe. Ich danke Ihnen! Sehr gut gemacht!
Nice installation. A thing I would suggest, considering you will work with electronic equipment and possibly faulty one would have been to install more than one RCD, at least one for the workbench sockets and one for lights/other sockets, so when you trip it you will not remain in the dark.
Nice job. The only thing I can say from experience is that double the amount of outlets you think you are going to need and then you will not run out of them immediately :)
Like, none at the ceiling? You should have some. And under the desks. And then more above the desks, but of course you can do that easily into the ducts.
It's a 3m x 3m area lol how many outlets do you really need? Get a power strip if needed.
@@randybobandy9828 I currently have 30 plugs in use in the small room I sit in at the moment. Extensions and multiple output strips can be nice but they can also be very inconvenient for stuff you need to unplug often. And it's nice to have switched and always on outlets etc. Not to mention a lot of devices that occupy one port but block the adjacent one and so on.
Agreed - I would add quite a few outlets under the desk for those things that are rarely unplugged, and perhaps a couple of ports in the desktop (at the back) for cables to pass through. It also reduces the cable clutter on top of the desk.
Muss sagen ihr habt alles sauber gemacht und so wie es sein soll, was mich wundert ist das du nicht direkt ein Netzwerkkabel in die Garage gezogen hast bzw. Netzwerkdosen in den Brüstungskanal gebaut hast.
Viel spaß in der neuen Werkstatt, baue mir demnächst auch eine auf und werde da mit allem komplett übertreiben haha
Wäre hier wohl das einzige was man "bemängeln" könnte.
😍👍 *_You should have an exhaust pipe for the soldering ,and UPS for PC , and charger for your electric car_* that was awesome 👍
Very nice garage for DIY Projects, well done my Friend.
Greetings from Bulgaria🙋♂️🙂🤝
In the USA, house power is two 120Vac phases with a "neutral", or one 240V source. This is called "Split-Phase". 240V is used for clothes-dryers, heat-pumps, oven etc...
split phase is long history in europe. German houseconnection is 3 phase 400 volt 63 Amp. single phase outlets 230 volt 16 amp 3600 watt. Enough for you washingmachine dryer, ovens and so on.
I am super exited for you to build your own home/setup. Really neat setup in this video. From this dutch guy that lives in USA, please label your E-stops with the 22mm circlular sticky label that says Emergency Stop (or in german) to top it all off. Congratulations!
In this case it would be "NOTAUS" in german. I agree that it would be a nice touch.
wer die Farben nicht kennt, versteht auch das Wort Notaus nicht!
As an European living in another EU country (Poland) it was interesting to watch mainly because one doesn't often see electrical installations done on the walls surface (as opposed to the much more common in-the-wall installation). Here in Poland I think the rules are pretty much the same as in Germany and we commonly use the same types of parts as shown(except wago connectors, those are less popular, we often use screw terminals with solid core wiring). Also the choices you made were interesting. I did a lot of electrical work on my own garage few years ago and more recently on a shed and a pv installation (of course I had it designed and certified by a qualified electrician). One of the things I did differently is I used square cross section snap-on plastic conduit instead of pipes for the cables in the buildings, also I used standard outlets. This conduit was easier to install then piping and it the idea was for it to be easier to modify in future, but having seen this video I now think pipes look better :-) I hope you do make another video on wiring of the house too.
Instead of a safety relay, you can use an additional ground fault interrupter with your button shorting it to ground. (this will mimic the test button on the device) For double safety, you have to reset the interrupter after resetting the push button.
GFI's can be really expensive tho, especially when it's an atypical current rating. 40A ones are usually way more expensive than 63A ones for example. In itself tho, that's a really neat idea if you wanna spend the extra money :D
German engineering: astounding ingenuity. Over a decade of conceptual continuity.
This was interesting to watch as I am an electrician in the USA. In the USA you are not aloud to have those cables exposed as they are subject to physical harm. You have to run the conduit all the way to the boxes using connector fittings. To get the wire in, you would push a fish tape and pull whatever wires you need. You would not push a cable into the conduits as they are to thick and would be to hard to pull around bends. There is a lot more to it and of course more codes on the specifics.
It's good to see some sense with connecting electricity here. I'm used to those weird USA way of installing electrical installations, as I mostly watch English content on TH-cam. Luckily I'm Dutch (hello neighbour!) and we have such installations as the Germans too, almost the same rules too! I did an education in normal 230v electronic installations before I could pick my IT specialty. So my knowledge is a bit rusty, but I like to see good installations such as this.
Having said that, this installtion looks very good!
LOL, I love it when Europeans complain about electrical distribution in N.A. Yes its so weird!
3-Conductor cable run inside the walls, which terminate at outlets where each conductor is screwed into its terminal. Wow, so crazy!
Or is it the wirenuts that are just soo kooky?
Strip 2-3-4 conductors 1", twist them clockwise with a pliers, and then sit a wirenut on top and twist them some more. Patented by a Scotsman in Canada in 1926.
If there were problems with them of any kind, they woudn't be a standard. Anyone outside of a DIY'er can strips and wirenut a connection in under a minute, so any labor saving excuse is really BS, often used to justify the 10x+ increase in connector cost.
Being able to flip a lever and re-use a connector, WOW.... Really, since they are used inside walls/boxes, its pretty rare they ever get touched again, so outside of maybe lightswitches where you might have 6-8 wires coming in, or be potentially more often accessed as SHMBO wants to replace switches, not seeing any reason why they are superior in a construction project.
One place where they are nice as mentioned above is where you have a lot of wires coming into a box and the small feature size on the connector just saves the day of what would otherwise be a rats nest. The wirenuts have been studied and the pressure applied in their use has been shown to provide a pretty serious crompression interface that makes them pretty darn strong, with an airless interface. I've heard a few complaints about slightly to short wires pulling out of Waygo's being a problem also. Along with issues with the springs inside for some reason or other.
But yeah, crazy. Every day we've got people dieing from house fires and being eletrocuts putting up picture frames over here...
@@boots7859 That's a big text. But i suggest you ever visit a fair like Light and Building in Frankfurt in Germany. The whole world accents there every two years. Your eyes will open. While i think American Industrial installations are sometimes works of wonder. I really do think domestic installs are from another age.
Other than the safety relay being normally off instead of normally on, I like what you'ved done. A lot of thought has been put into what you want, and that wall channel is a great idea. I can see a 63Watt continuous draw would be unwanted. Even if it was only on while you worked at the bench, and turned off other times, it would still be something that needed considering.
Thanks for the tour and showing us your thought process.
That safety relay is a huge NO for that specific reason. There should be two switches in the emergency stop: One closer, that closes when the switch enclosure is bolted together so you cannot switch the power on when an emergency stop switch is missing/got torn off and an opener that breaks the power to the power contactor which then switches itself off. On top of that, the power should not switch back on when you pull the emergency stop out but you need to have a seperate POWER ON switch (momentary). In German that is called Selbsthalteschaltung.
Doing it any other way is pretty dangerous. And that "normally on" power contactor is not that common to begin with...
Edit: The whole argument of "too much power consumption" is nonsense because the relay only requires those 60W in the very moment it starts moving. Once switching is complete, it is somewhere below 5 W. The only reason they put the high number in the datasheet is that all current bearing parts on the coil side need to be designed for that higher current...
@greatscottlab You could use a RCD from Doepke which you can extend with a emergency stop module. That would be way more fail safe and doesn't use a lot of additional power.
I worked 3 years long as a Mechatroniker in Deutschland, and I fully agree 100% on your title. I didn't learn a lot of tech there, but vernünftige Verdrahtung, for sure I learned that.
The standarts are everything.
Yep :-)
It's a very nice job! There is a level of satisfaction in planning the space to your liking and making it in real life. Looking forward to see more from your new space!
nice and clean job, well done! Here in Czech republic we use 1,5mm2 up to 10A and 2,5mm2 for 16A circuit braker.
That safe for sure. In Krautland, it is calculated, which cable diameter is required, dependig an the cablelength and breaker, so it is also safe, but kind more complicated.
In germany we only use 16 amp wiring, breakers and plugs, its way better then mixing it up since the same outlet is used
The electrician that did my garage is a childhood friend of mine, and also a car guy, I have outlets everywhere, and then some, I have one of those ducts above the workbench, I have more lights then I ever need (because "you might want to use it as a paintbox one day")
Swiss electrician here
Those hager ducts are nice indeed. Just a shame they have no such fancy instant outlets for here from what I know.
Two things I'd have done differently would be:
Using more smaller ducts instead of all the tubes. simplifies your life in the future in case you ever want to add more things.
And adding a Neutral disconnector for every breaker. Not only required here but actually useful if you ever have issues with your wiring. Can also be used to fully isolate a circuit that constantly trips that RCD.
Looks neat! Hope it will serve all your Electrical Needs for the upcoming videos
I hope so too :-) But I really think I got everything I could ever need.
I'm quite familiar with that kind of Garage-structure ... so how often did you accidentally drill too deep and make the plaster pop off the outside? Sometimes these walls are only like ~6cm thick!
400Vx16Axsqrt(3)= 11085 VA. A 16A CEE outlet can deliver 11kVA, not 6kVA.
Correct. I did not want to overcomplicate things with sqrt but that was not the correct way to do it.
@@greatscottlab simply count it as 3 times the single fase 16A*230V
The wiring system you used is essentially exactly the same in Australia. We use the same breakers.
The only difference being is we use flat TPS cable instead of that white circular cable. And where the conduit goes into cable boxes we would run the conduit directly into it, no cable can be exposed at all. Super interesting though
You've done a great job with the building's electric connections. BUT, what I haven't seen in the video and I strongly recommend (in fact, i don't know german regulations but in Spain is mandatory) is the installation of Protection against permanent and transient overvoltages.
As a student we were also just explained about importance of adding such protection, however first you had to evaluate the risk factor on the site and I believe if it wasn't a public/government building you could only give your recommendations to your client about this. That's when we were told stories about some folks trying to save some money and ending up with huge losses due to fried expensive electronics, computers etc. because of overvoltages. :)
The German electrical system look very similar to Czech electrical system. But instead of pipes we like to use light gray square channels with lid. I dont know what are they called in english. (In german should be 15x15 kabelkanal lichtgrau)
Nice job. I can tell in Italy fuse boxes are extremely rare since the seventies and aren't used in new constructions... so it's kind weird to see them 😊
What the heck do you do if not use fuse boxes? Mount your fuses to the wall?
@@the_retag we use thermal-magnetic circuit breakers...
@@staffa007 ah
So still a fuse box using day to day terms. Few probably still ise songle use fuses, but its always called fuse box not corcuit breaker box
@@the_retag 😁 👍🏻
There are beakers on the panel. The incoming phases are protected by fuses. That can be a requirement. A breaker can fail so that the circuit stays closed, a fuse cannot. That is the reason why for example in Finland the main fuses have to be actual fuses.
Hot damn. You guys are gods compared to what Mexican electricians will do with our houses' wiring.
I can't count how many times I went and found incredibly unsafe and out of spec wiring in my own home.
To give you an example: Electricians in Mexico will refuse to install physical GND on a house if they can avoid it.
I struggled to get a guy to install one ground circuit in my home and he only did it at the start of the main's circuit, that ground is not connected to the rest of the house.
Uow Scott, here in Brazil just three of this sockets cost 1 month salary. So, you imagine how faaaaaar your gorgeous installation is from our average electrical home and office installation.
I’m building a tiny house and was looking for a good way to power my desk/workspace and I’m literally in love with the wall ducts. I’m using those everywhere I can now.
Things I'd have done differently - I'd probably try to get rid of the legs for the workbench as far as possible. My experience is that wherever they are located I end up sitting with one of the things right where my leg is supposed to go. Office furtniture is expensive and often the table depth is to small. So I ended up buying the biggest kitchen table from a well known Northern European furniture company for my last office and aside of having legs in the wrong place it has served me well.
Hey, congrats on your new garage. I thought you were gonna spec it all out with IOT devices with Homeassistant integrations and solar panels but yeah i still like these generic electrical installation videos especially coming from you. Thank you for these educational contents you make, just as i am, i am sure someone will find this really interesting. Great Job!
Congratulations on the house + garage build! - I have a question, why was the CEE-plug blurred in the intro?
Because 400V 3 phase outlets are just too arousing for American viewers.
@@ChristophPech 😀😀😀😀
Glad to see that you went again with Bulgarian lights for your garage!
I worked in the turbine industry for years and used metal conduit not plastic. Your neatness is as good or better than ours. Nice job.
With the relay wired like this, it is less than ideal for using the emergency stop buttons as a 'master off' switch for the bench. The relay will use power when everything is off. So, I'd add a master switch. Also, add one or two outlets that are on at all times, regardless of the emergency stop and the proposed master switch, for a computer and networking equipment. Depends a bit on what you want to do in that room. An always on outlet is also handy for a cordless tool battery charger.
It's interesting to me that you're allowed to set up your conduit with "gaps" at corners and at entrances to boxes; it looks strange to me (living in North America) as I've always seen electrical wiring done either in continuous conduit, or with spiral-armored cable. You also occasionally see NM/Romex cable, but that's mostly used for in-wall rather than exposed/surface installations like this.
I agree it looks strange from here. However we occasionally do something similar in the US, where instead of using the conduit as part of a complete raceway system we just use it as a sleeve for convenience or to protect against physical damage. In my basement the NM is sleeved in EMT until it reaches the ceiling joists, where it is then stapled in the traditional way to framing. That said the lack of connections from point to point here would just grind my gears. I assume Germany has complete raceway systems that would look and function better to protect against workshop damage.
You don't have to use the pipes anyway, so having gaps is certainly not an issue.
The cable is double-insulated. The conduit is not needed, it's just used to replace a crapload of clips.
Very nice setup, since moving to Germany I've noticed space is at a premium, having that extra 3x3m work area on your garage is awesome, can't wait to see what you do with it, all the things that are bad for your health like lasers or 3D printing, or the noise they produce being annoying/loud, you can just chuck in the garage, a perfect maker space. Are we also going to see your house build?
My american garage is approx. 12m x 7m and 4.5m tall.
Mechatronics Technician working in the industry here, so I was about to be triggered, but then you cleared it up ;)
I'd probably have split the sockets on the workbench 50/50 and colour coded them. Half of them on all the time, half of them via the E-Stop, and then wired the E-Stop "correctly". That way you'd only have to turn the protected outlets on if you actually needed them, and could rely on the better protection.
Still, every bit of protection is better then none. Would be interesting to know how they did the E-Stop sefety outlets for "Berufsschule". Though I do remember them having them turned off most of the time.
It's cool seeing all this gear in germany. We use the same stuff in Australia
Loved this video. You guys do the best electrical wiring from what I saw. Would like more stuff like this coming
Thanks for the feedback :-)
For a garage an electric vehicle charger would also be very useful.
That is why there was a second smaller distribution box next to the bigger one. There the protection devices for the EV charger will get installed. But that will take a bit of time.
@@greatscottlab Is the provision there for 11kW EV charging?
I was very surprised by the fuses and fuse holders- everything else is 2022, and then you have screw in porcelain fuses straight out of the 1890s!!!
They add an extra layer of protection.
@@greatscottlab absolutely, I agree with additional fuses, I am just surprised the fitting/design is so ancient looking, compared to everything else. I have only seen screw-in fuse holders in a museum! From a UK perspective it's like you'd used a bakelite and brass knife switch from a Frankenstein movie, or something similar made from polished wood and brass, it just looks so incongruous next to all the modern kit. I remember my Opa telling me about screw in fuses from his childhood in the 1920s!
@@richardbanks2669 But in Uk you still use fuses in yours electic meters as a main fuse.And your electric panels are stil use rewireable fuses
@@tsataras Yes, and no. We have a main fuse, but electrical panels haven't used rewireable fuses since the 80s, its all MCBs - if you still have rewireable fuses in your distribution board it is long overdue for replacement. To be clear, I'm not surprised at the use of a fuse, I'm surprised at the use of a porcelain, screw in, fuse of a design by Thomas Edison! UK main fuses are of the cylindrical variety, not screwed in like a lightbulb! I guess "if it aint bust, don't fix it", but I'm just surprised that the design has remained unchanged for more than 100 years :)
@@richardbanks2669 k1 k2 and k3 fuse holders are still common in mainland europe. And still inproved to a ip rating that you cant touch the active parts.
Die busch jäger Dosen sieht man halt auch überall. XD
German and Italian electrical standards are mostly similar, in fact we use more or less the same manufacturers. A big difference is the style of the components, Germans are rounded or a square, Italians are rectangular.
If I am not wrong you also place pipes in the concrete more often than us too.
Nice build, but you should have probably put the cables in some protective pipe in the bends too. In our company we use grey flexible conduits or sometimes premade bends. Also not a huge fan of those sockets and switches gewiss has much better modular system, but whatever suits you.
That is allowed in Germany, and is also done in industrial buildings. If it was in a wall then you wil need to bend a pipe. But on a wall this is typical to do
Yeah, since you have to use that plastic conduit anyways, not sure why they don't have 45' and 90' sweeps that you can just pop on the ends. Not sure exactly what that plastic conduit is really going to do protection-wise, but better than bar wire. Putting those outlets only 3-4 inches above the table was a big fail. Unless he's not going to have equipment on the bench. Put them 18-24" above the table top so you can put stuff against the wall and maximize work table space, and included cable of stuff is usually 5-6' anyways to you get that off the table.
@@boots7859 we in holland have pvc pipe and hostaliet. Hostaliet dos not shatter when you hit it with a hammer or other things. Pvc pipe shatters like glass. Getting cables with 3 wires to go through a bend is very difficult. A cable with 5 wires is practically impossible. I think he uses 2.5mm2 wires or 14agw for American users.
@@mikeyhendri here in slovenia at least in our company we put pieces of flexible conduit in bends. Don't know about protection but it looks better than exposed cables. This is done in industrial and installations like in the video.
Looks great! I am a little put off by the lack of pre curved junctions we’re not used on the cable conduits, makes for a neater install. I also find it unusual that you did not use individual color coded conductors in the conduits but use a totally enclosed cable. German electrical code? I do like the Hager raceways and the various accessories for electric distribution. Funny they are not available in the Hager catalogue here in Greece, there are other brands but I do not like the profiles offered. I do like the Hager power panels and the accessories used to hook up the circuits. Very neat install. It is unusual to see fuses used to protect the mains at the entry point in the panel box. Fuses in the states went obsolete 40+ years ago. My home here in Greece has fuses in the basement level panel but we finished the two panels in the upper two floors with Automatic breakers and all three levels have each a GFCI protecting the panel. Have you considered power outage lights for both rooms in the garage? Perhaps a line interactive UPS for the door opener, again in case of power failure? I personally hate getting out of my car during a heavy rainstorm to release the garage door from the lift to get the car in. Hopefully you will run several power conduits underground (if permitted by the DEC ) to accommodate security system, cameras ( don’t trust wireless cameras ), telephone lines or internet wiring. I also have a interesting question, Does one have to be a licensed electrician to purchase electrical equipment such as circuit breakers, distribution panels and associated equipment in Germany? Might make a great follow up video short as to some of the rules and regulations that are in the German laws, always interested in what’s Code in other countries.
We in Germany don't get power failure due to just some bad weather in situations where you don't have other way bigger problems like flooding or tornado-grade destruction of homes/roads.
My understanding is that you can just buy these things freely, though some specialty shops limit clients to businesses as they don't want to deal with amateurs as customers.
It's even legal to wire yourself, you just aren't allowed to hook anything up to mains without a licensed electrician signing off on it. It might also be forbidden to sell wiring services to others if you're not a licensed electrician, but not sure.
Since the cable used (NYM) is already double insulated you dont need to fully enclose the cable. If he had used individual wires those bends would have been required. But running single wires is usually not done here. You are allowed to do it but its just not common.
This looks absolutely beatiful.
This is exactly the reason I want to get a job in networking. I'd love to build something like this for a living.
I'm an electrician from Australia and use Hager gear as well, the set up looks very well thought out.
I would have the conduit differently, though for the coners, I would have either used 90-degree bends, corrugated conduit, or a bending spring and bent the conduit. Then, I would have had the conduit continue into the ducting and J boxes using plain to screw adapters so there are no cables showing.
open bends are allowd with use of cable, its just a faster way of installation and sleeker look the nailing it down every 25 cm. the use of 90-degree bends or corrugated conduit is a not done as a profesional dutch electrician.
We basically use the same cable in Finland but we can only put 10A fuse on 1.5mm2, 16A on 2.5mm2 and about 35A on 10mm2 with some exceptions. Also we are allowed to use N (blue) for switches and phases but usually people use black marker pen on it or tape it a bit to show it isn't a neutral.
In Italy with fuses is the same thing, we can't use neutral for fase, is forbidden to use blue wire for everything different from neutral. Another thing we don't use are rigid copper cables.
Congratulations! It looks awesome, 99% same as mine :) the only difference is that along with the sockets in the Brüstungskanal I installed 6A breakers. Not only for extra protection, I can turn the sockets on/off using these breakers.