Thank you for this, great to see two of my favourite commentators in conversation on these issues. I particularly appreciated Larry's comments regarding the "scorched earth" policy of some Traditionalists which just seems unworkable and deeply unhelpful. Sadly, this is the division that is the main product of this papacy as you continually referenced throughout this conversation. Similarly I appreciate you both speaking out about the "unconscionable" and "incoherent" meeting with Sr. Gramick: this is the semiotics of the synod which contradicts directly any façade of orthodoxy. We have seen Pope Francis work for the moral relativism condemned in Veritatis splendor for over a decade so I think it is vital we continue to explain what the strategy is with this proportionalist/ utilitarian/ fundamental option approach.
Wow his description of the hours and hours people have to listen at the synod reminded me exactly of how car dealerships like to close a deal, keeping you in the chair for hours and hours to wear you down, running off to the manager about this or that detail, leaving you hanging. I ran into that years ago, and now, if I shop for a car I am direct, quick and don't allow them to play any games at all, I will walk right out. If they play delaying tactics I walk. That seems to me what the synod is tacitly up to, wearing people out who were "interested" in getting the next model Catholic car, and come to find out AC is not available in the upcoming year because they have given up on AD and are dining with the Jesuit-izers.
Than you for sharing as a struggling Catholic, the greatest enemy is the lack of faith in the holiness, forces that try to obstruct our faith with exterior issues, concerns loosing our simple fact that we are children of Christ.
Larry, look into the connection between the SYNOD with its Voice, and the Beast that Speaks....The synod is the beast empowered 2 wear out the saints. Therefore, Expect new powers 2 be given 2 this instrument - primacy and Chair of power.... Cheers from AUSTRALIA... ps. I did ask U after the Catholic unscripted show ... why will the papacy be De Ranked? ....perhaps, we. can see clearer now.... My house shall be called a house of Prayer. 4 all the Nations Strangely, not power or holiness or knowledge etc.
From what I have read the vatican is comprised of a majority homosexual priests and bishops. The sin of sodomy is what is killing the catholic church. The gays control the catholic church that should be evident by now to anyone paying attention. . Archbishop Vigano says he has a former seminarian that says burgolio is another mccarick. That wouldnt suprise me and would answer a lot of questions of why burgolio is doing what he is doing. I mean who would dare to have a prefect that is a pornographer. Also my theory is the way the gays are going to try to change the church is to get a majority of homosexual in the college of cardinals and keep electing homosexual popes. Case in point, Cupich, McElroy, Tobin all selected by burgolio. Well they can change teachings on what and what is not a sin, but everyone who has a brain better be careful and not choose to hide behind the teachings of corrupt men. They will get their day in hell. And for most of them it is right around the corner. I cant believe they are that arrogant and blind to think they can get away with it. My opinion: none of them including burgolio believe in a "Supernatural" Jesus the Chirst. I do because I was given the gift to know God on a supernatural level. An encounter with God that I didnt deserve. I can tell you Flat Out, Jesus is real and he is a Supernatural Being without a doubt.
Well I'm a Latin Mass goer and Pope John Paul II in very high in my estimation. I always said he would be a hard act to follow. I think I'm far from being alone on that score........ am I ?
!! I am a trad and I admit that I see JP 2 as awful. Makes me think of Assisi and Koran kissing. These boomer gentlemen should consider that trads are correct and let go of their dated views on JP 2. The truth has come out.
If everybody believes they are guided by the Holy Spirit then the realities of those sins which are a result of the lack of self-control, which requires grace and faith, do not get acknowledged. Everyone can believe that their are acting out of love when there is no solid base of virtue, there is no meekness of Wisdom (James 3:13).
split it up so more will be confused and become the nationalist church in each country. so much for non borders. make that catholic faith like every other religion in its regional rite and become the protestant rite for whatever you want to believe.
Given that the Pope is not held to hold the US Bishops in the highest regard, could his meeting with the New Ways Ministry be interpreted as a kind of two fingers sign towards the US Bishops? In other words, he wasn't approving of their agenda but merely using these people to show his attitude to the US Bishops? Same with Fr Martin. Are the Pope's words of approval towards Fr Martin merely a sign to the US Bishops: okay, you don't totally approve of everything I do, so I am going to keep company with the people/groups you have criticised and express warm words about them.
The cardinal or bishop who believes that the church should change its position because gay people "are born this way" is not good argument. I suspect that they think that since God is the author of life and so...? But God also makes or allows individuals to be born with many genetic mutations, chromosomal abnormalities, deletions, duplications etc...that bring about Cancer, Down Syndrome, Hypercholesterolemia, Trisomy 13 &18 and others etc...? Just because God allows something to happen does not make it good. Again to the the Cardinal or Bishop if we are to follow what science show us, should we be discounting or turn a blind eye to what science tells us how ones environment, social and psychological experiences affects individuals and influences ones behavior.
The catechism mentions this prejudice against gay people. There are crimes committed every day that involve this prejudice The church also teaches that gay people "must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity", and that "every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided."
I would argue the Catechism in that regard, in which what you write is only in the JPII version as far as I’m aware, is wrong. You’re under no obligation to hire or associate with people who act gravely immoral and manifestly reject God’s laws. 🏳️🌈 was illegal for centuries and could face severe punishments. The Church wasn’t wrong then. It’s wrong now in changing its opinion that this sin that cries to heaven for vengeance can’t be outlawed.
At last the voice of reason ❤
Superb intelligent Catholic conversation. Thank you.
Larry Chapp makes a good 👉 point..😊
Thank you for this, great to see two of my favourite commentators in conversation on these issues. I particularly appreciated Larry's comments regarding the "scorched earth" policy of some Traditionalists which just seems unworkable and deeply unhelpful. Sadly, this is the division that is the main product of this papacy as you continually referenced throughout this conversation. Similarly I appreciate you both speaking out about the "unconscionable" and "incoherent" meeting with Sr. Gramick: this is the semiotics of the synod which contradicts directly any façade of orthodoxy. We have seen Pope Francis work for the moral relativism condemned in Veritatis splendor for over a decade so I think it is vital we continue to explain what the strategy is with this proportionalist/ utilitarian/ fundamental option approach.
Wow his description of the hours and hours people have to listen at the synod reminded me exactly of how car dealerships like to close a deal, keeping you in the chair for hours and hours to wear you down, running off to the manager about this or that detail, leaving you hanging. I ran into that years ago, and now, if I shop for a car I am direct, quick and don't allow them to play any games at all, I will walk right out. If they play delaying tactics I walk. That seems to me what the synod is tacitly up to, wearing people out who were "interested" in getting the next model Catholic car, and come to find out AC is not available in the upcoming year because they have given up on AD and are dining with the Jesuit-izers.
🙏🏻😇⛪❤️🔥👑🕯️🕊️
This is a Synod where Christ is not center-stage. That's the nature of the problem with this Synod.
Than you for sharing as a struggling Catholic, the greatest enemy is the lack of faith in the holiness, forces that try to obstruct our faith with exterior issues, concerns loosing our simple fact that we are children of Christ.
Larry, look into the connection between the SYNOD with its Voice, and the Beast that Speaks....The synod is the beast empowered 2 wear out the saints. Therefore, Expect new powers 2 be given 2 this instrument - primacy and Chair of power....
Cheers from AUSTRALIA...
ps. I did ask U after the Catholic unscripted show ... why will the papacy be De Ranked? ....perhaps, we. can see clearer now....
My house shall be called a house of Prayer. 4 all the Nations
Strangely, not power or holiness or knowledge etc.
I’m just waiting for the news that Fr James Martin will be made a Cardinal. Would not be surprised
that will speak volumes of the progressive secularism infiltrated into this papacy
From what I have read the vatican is comprised of a majority homosexual priests and bishops. The sin of sodomy is what is killing the catholic church. The gays control the catholic church that should be evident by now to anyone paying attention. . Archbishop Vigano says he has a former seminarian that says burgolio is another mccarick. That wouldnt suprise me and would answer a lot of questions of why burgolio is doing what he is doing. I mean who would dare to have a prefect that is a pornographer. Also my theory is the way the gays are going to try to change the church is to get a majority of homosexual in the college of cardinals and keep electing homosexual popes. Case in point, Cupich, McElroy, Tobin all selected by burgolio. Well they can change teachings on what and what is not a sin, but everyone who has a brain better be careful and not choose to hide behind the teachings of corrupt men. They will get their day in hell. And for most of them it is right around the corner. I cant believe they are that arrogant and blind to think they can get away with it. My opinion: none of them including burgolio believe in a "Supernatural" Jesus the Chirst. I do because I was given the gift to know God on a supernatural level. An encounter with God that I didnt deserve. I can tell you Flat Out, Jesus is real and he is a Supernatural Being without a doubt.
Well I'm a Latin Mass goer and Pope John Paul II in very high in my estimation. I always said he would be a hard act to follow. I think I'm far from being alone on that score........ am I ?
!!
I am a trad and I admit that I see JP 2 as awful. Makes me think of Assisi and Koran kissing. These boomer gentlemen should consider that trads are correct and let go of their dated views on JP 2. The truth has come out.
If everybody believes they are guided by the Holy Spirit then the realities of those sins which are a result of the lack of self-control, which requires grace and faith, do not get acknowledged. Everyone can believe that their are acting out of love when there is no solid base of virtue, there is no meekness of Wisdom (James 3:13).
split it up so more will be confused and become the nationalist church in each country. so much for non borders. make that catholic faith like every other religion in its regional rite and become the protestant rite for whatever you want to believe.
Given that the Pope is not held to hold the US Bishops in the highest regard, could his meeting with the New Ways Ministry be interpreted as a kind of two fingers sign towards the US Bishops? In other words, he wasn't approving of their agenda but merely using these people to show his attitude to the US Bishops? Same with Fr Martin. Are the Pope's words of approval towards Fr Martin merely a sign to the US Bishops: okay, you don't totally approve of everything I do, so I am going to keep company with the people/groups you have criticised and express warm words about them.
exactly! all about sexual morality which claims everything than be ok as long as you are ok with it.
The cardinal or bishop who believes that the church should change its position because gay people "are born this way" is not good argument. I suspect that they think that since God is the author of life and so...? But God also makes or allows individuals to be born with many genetic mutations, chromosomal abnormalities, deletions, duplications etc...that bring about Cancer, Down Syndrome, Hypercholesterolemia, Trisomy 13 &18 and others etc...? Just because God allows something to happen does not make it good. Again to the the Cardinal or Bishop if we are to follow what science show us, should we be discounting or turn a blind eye to what science tells us how ones environment, social and psychological experiences affects individuals and influences ones behavior.
sad sad sad a bishop or cardinal demands we repent from what time of prejudice??? the changing of church doctrine?? sad sad sad..
The catechism mentions this prejudice against gay people. There are crimes committed every day that involve this prejudice
The church also teaches that gay people "must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity", and that "every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided."
I would argue the Catechism in that regard, in which what you write is only in the JPII version as far as I’m aware, is wrong. You’re under no obligation to hire or associate with people who act gravely immoral and manifestly reject God’s laws. 🏳️🌈 was illegal for centuries and could face severe punishments. The Church wasn’t wrong then. It’s wrong now in changing its opinion that this sin that cries to heaven for vengeance can’t be outlawed.
You accept sinners but reject their sins, as a doctor accepts patients but works to abolish their cancers
Radcliffe will be the next pope. Just watch.