The Harold Shipman case, as with the Jimmy Saville case, was really an indictment of the 20th century. A culture that was excessively deferential to authority and status, naive and perhaps most damning, not wanting to know. There was a simplistic victorian authoritarianism that ran through society. People were still divided into the deserving and the undeserving. If you didn't conform, you deserved everything you got. If you were "respectable", you could do no wrong.
Dont know about gallows humour but it was true. It was like when one has an alcoholic at work, everyone knows but very few bring it to light,,a well documented phenomina.
@@chuckabutty888 You're right there. I worked on the gatehouse security and one guy would pull up in his car and hand his id over in the morning his head was bright purple and he had the usual thousand yard stare. Apart from one guy who made fun of him to me nobody said a word. Not even the boss of the whole place who was the fussiest pain in the arse you could meet and the reason I left. This alcoholic would come in, driving, pissed as a fart every day.
@@patriceaqa288 I think it's his narcissistic personality, he truly thought he was so much better than everyone else and that he could get away with it rather than wanting to get caught. I've seen the real shipman talking and he's even smugger and more arrogant sounding than the portrayal of him in this drama. I can see why he got caught. He thought he was untouchable after so many years of getting away with murder.
@@lw3646 Yes and I've heard some of the police interviews and the drama is pretty much word for word. Obviously the acting makes it more dramatic sounding but shipman is just as smug, saying things like "you switch it on" in a smug arrogant manner.
My current practice is the Brooke surgery who caught him, it’s in this film, so is the road and shipman’s practice. I never knew about this history and just happened to stumble over the fact watching this film that my doctors practice is in the film exactly as it is in real life. Hit me like a brick 🧱 Wild to think about. The brooke surgery ironically won the best practice in the uk award. Seems being good doctors is a theme that runs strong considering they were the ones who caught him. ✌️
He hung himself as his life insurance policy would have expired on his birthday the next day and his wife would have lost a fortune as if he lived past his next birthday the policy would have become null and void but as he did die his wife was able to make the claim and got a substantial amount of money.
@@chuckabutty888 yep as basically set her up for the rest of her life.Maybe a law should be set that even with life insurance a convicted person shouldn't be allowed nor should the family of the convicted person from things like life insurance payouts.Maybe if by law the insurance company has to pay out on a claim then the money should go to the victims and or the victims families of their crime(s).If the victim/victims families don't want the payment then it's divvied up against a certain number of charities that the victim(s)/victim(s) families support/supported. Shipman knowing his family couldn't profit then off the life Insurance and he maybe alive rotting in prison.
@@chantalsscaleisafibber Good point, makes me wonder if insurance companies amended things after this, I dont know. His wfe was found innocent of any knowledge but alas she should not have benefited thus in a way making her a victim herself though obviously not as severe as those he killed. Hell, that guy affected so many people, makes my blood boil thinking about it.
Such a shame he never admitted to his crimes or gave an explanation before he took his own life. The families of his victims will never know exactly why he did it, which must be so upsetting.
Thanks for posting this. It s a well made and sympathetic production. My condolences for all concerned, and the good people of Hyde. I visited Hyde around 2009- ish at at an event in the Cuban restaurant. But it was after dark, so I didn't get the benefit of seeing more. Each time I see this, I'm afraid I can't help getting the idea that the first victim had become a nuisance to Shipman. At 45:00 mins, It's terrible the hassle that Detective gets, when he enters his Club for a quiet pint. Especially that one who runs the auction, in the opening scenes. I never liked the roles that he gets. I suppose its not his fault, e can see his sort all over.
Oh my!! Powerful performances by so many English actors renound for portraying every day working men and women to great effect. As for James Bolam what a superb performance, when you listen to the real tapes of Shipman they sound so alike. British actors hit the nail on the head so many times and this is a wonderful example. Superb is an under statement. May Shipman burn in hell for eternity and may his victims now rest in peace with the truth of his crimes exposed.
It’s frightening to think if he hadn’t got arrogant and began to kill larger amounts of people (which began to make people suspicious) he may have got away with it for longer period of time and maybe avoided being caught. Obviously his downfall was forging a patients Will and Testament. Absolutely frightening to think it’s possible this man killed 200+ people who had nothing but complete trust in him.
Have just read some off the inquiry files, i know there was lots of victims, but the one ive just been reading about has brought me to tears as its so sad, this victim is only 47!!!4 years older than myself and same age as my sister, and this womans only ailment for this beastard to come visit was a bloody asthma attack and then he decided on murdering her with a OD of large dose of diamorphine with her 22 year old daughter upstairs, but being still quite young and quite healthy, she did not die has he hoped, before the ambulance people got there.... and they got her pulse and breathing sort of again, but only for her to reach the hospital brain dead and to live in vegatated state for a month, untill she finally passed away, because the horrible bugger didnt expect her to arrive at hospital with a beating heart and obviously beyond help and dead, he had to fess up what he'd injected her with, but this he changed to morphine in a lower amount, being asthmatic this still red flagged to most of the doctors and even then a coroners inquest wasnt called for, maybe just maybe if it had, then this evil cnt wouldnt have gone on to kill and focus on our most vunerable our elderly... RIP R.O im one more person in the world who can say a prayer for you now.....
Here after Nurse Letby has been convicted for killing babies. I definitely see her as a female Dr Shipman. I wonder if they'll be a drama about that, like this one.
@@UrbanPicturesUK well it may be too soon still to air a drama about Lucy Letby. but it would be nice to see someone playing Lucy and giving us a insight on what Lucy Letby was like behind the scenes
@gavinmartin5151 no times have moved on a bit now I think. The trouble with this is the killer becomes the main focus and the victims become marginal. If they do make it then they will make it about the doctors working in the hospital and she will just be an out of focus person in the background. It's kind of a way to take some power back I guess....
Near the end - in the police station interview room at 1 22' 22" - DS Mark Wareing (Ken Bradshaw) should have followed up the question on Shipman, back at the practice, himself editing patient notes on the computer with something such as: "So, do you log onto the computer yourself, straight after getting back from the patient's house? And is there no-one else at the practice who would do this?" This would complete the trap for when the police reveal what they know about the "ghost" computer records.
@@joethelion6016 I know what you mean about the accent but the scene where he had the nervous breakdown was some good acting and shown his range and what he can do.
@@joethelion6016 Yes, good point, I listened to shipmans voice, very well spoken. You'd never guess what he was doing. They could have at least told him to tone down the northeast accent in the drama.
This was brought up on some of the documentaries about Shipman, if you TH-cam 'shipman' they pop up, missing jewelry caused a lot of fights within families as the family members believed other relatives had taken valuable/meaningful items
I have literally just posted a comment about the jewellery & how Shipman's wife Primrose told police it was hers, even though she was already wearing a gold wedding band & another gold ring. Primrose Shipman DEFINITELY SHOULD HAVE been taken in for questioning about the jewellery🤔🤔.
Very recently there's been a female Dr Shipman... Nurse Letby. She killed 7 babies, so i hope like Shipman will be jailed for life or at least a very long time. I'm watching this after the Letby news.
What I still 2 this day, don't get is why Shipman's wife wasn't charged with perverting the course of justice🤔, cos when the police were searching the Shipman's home & garage the officer found a carrier bag with some rings in & wen he asked Shipman's wife, Primrose "Who's are these" she replied "Mine".... They may have been hers, but a family member of 1 of his victims did say that some pieces of jewellery were missing. I may be wrong, but as far as I'm aware after watching EVERY SINGLE "Shipman" documentary, the police NEVER removed any of the jewellery found on Shipman's property & the families were NEVER asked 2 identity any of the items either.
@leszo2 It's all the families I feel sorry 4, not only did that evil scumbag rob them of precious time with their loved ones he also took the cowards way out, robbed them of proper justice & never gave them the closure they needed by telling them WHY he did what he did😢😢.
I wonder why shipman did it, I wonder, we will never know now, but it’s absolutely terrifying that anybody could do such a thing. I was only 9 when this happened but I remember it so well. I pray and hope that the poor souls went to heaven, that is no consolation to the families of the victims. Some people don’t believe in evil, well you only have to know of this man and what he did to understand evil does exist.
There's no explanation. He didn't benefit financially from the murders, no evidence he had any grudge or there was any dispute or trouble between doctor and patient, he was a well respected and well liked member of the community. No sign he was suffering from psychosis or schizophrenia. It just seems he became addicted to playing God, exercising the power of life and death over his patients.
@@lw3646 There are theories that he hated older people and disposed of them. He was very clever in his tactics, that he would make the deaths look like “the perfect death”. The forged will of his last victim is ultimately what got him caught. However, there were systemic failings dating back to the mid 70s when he was nearly struck off for forging prescriptions and being a drug addict.
They reckon he was killing patients right from the start of his career. He mother died from cancer when he was a child and he saw her being injected with morphine. When he became a doctor he was addicted to pethidine and he went on to start killing patients. The initial police investigation was botched at first and I think if he hadn’t become greedy when he killed his last victim he might never have been caught. When he was convicted some police interview material was shown on the news. His arrogance was breathtaking. The insinuation has always been that he killed patients just because he could. He thought he was better than anyone else and he liked having the power of life and death, but in the end he killer himself in prison and showed what a pathetic coward he was.
@@philipinchinaI'm only after realising I never googled what year the film came out in... 2002. Highly likely it is his actual car. Only 4 years after he was arrested.
Some psychologists now believe that Shipman was somewhere on the autistic spectrum - it would explain his problems with "theory or mind" - problems that some autistic people (amongst others) have in understanding that other people may feel, think and behave differently to how you are. He was also clearly massively narcissistic (something which can look very similar to some traits of autism) and may well have had traits of OCPD (which is different to OCD). Its traits include a need to be right, in control, inability to handle criticism, and obsession with efficiency and order, inability to delegate because "you do it right and other don't", perfectionism, black & white thinking and fixation on certain tasks. OCPD is also often comorbid with autism.
I have definitely read a lack of the ability to feel empathy is common with serial killers. Other warmings can be a traumatic childhood in some way and the need to take back a sense of power by preying on the vulnerable. They are also mostly men and often there's a kind of sexual motive but that's quite complicated. I've worked with plenty of people probably on the autism spectrum, they can be a bit socially awkward but overall very nice people very good at their work.
at first but he got into the character and displayed that he had more hubris than Basil Brush ( why BBC sacked Bas back in 1978 when Billy C did not bother to offer a contract.
Actually we do. There are several Shipman documentaries, try watching one. He was from Nottingham, he affected a posh accent. Nothing like Bolam's performance
was coz i there was a national problem with foot and mouth at time so thee were lots of weird posters around and swathes of the countryside, country parks, farm land etc surrounded by big disinfectant soaked pads to walk over. was big deal- there’s also an idea he personally had a thing about pigs but think , between timing n stuff is the first/ i was GP in one of the ‘shires and it was every day stuff during those days . blessings from 🏴
@@nogoodboyo1 Yes, I remember the Foot & Mouth case - the BIG one. A lot of farmers needed Counselling and 'The Samaritans' took a lot of suicide calls, because many lost ALL of their livestock. it just seemed odd to see that particular image on his wall.
@@jackharrison6771 having looked at the stats years ago ( being a Gp/AnE whatever- ) more farmers committed suicide with the crisis being explicitly stated than prob 10 x as many people may possibly perhaps have thought aboutbCJD etc- fkg pathetic- n of course there’s beeen reruns since/ some common sense advice and some absolute shyte advice:reporting. at some point “death by influence of media bias” has to nestle with involuntary manslaughter -et al--- - those years were fkg aweful
Her home town was Gorton and she was moved to Hattersley (a part of Hyde) during the slum clearances of the 60s. Brady was from Scotland. Even shipman wasn’t originally from Hyde. All these notorious murderers including Dale Creegan ended up in and around Hyde but none of them originated from there. I’m only saying as Hyde gets a bad reputation due to these people
All kinds of theories about Harold Shipman and why he did it. First of all, he seems to have been a gross narcissist. Like all people like that, he lived in a dream world where he was superior to everyone else, he could do whatever he wanted and others were too stupid to catch him. This seems to have been encouraged from an early age by his mother. Then there was the death of his mother - she died a slow, painful death from cancer, and the local doctor would stop by to administer morphine to her. It was after his death that for the first time he expressed a desire to become a doctor. Many believe that he was trying to recreate his mother's death. It's also been speculated that he may have had some form of autism. Like other serial killers, he also seems to have had a form of OCPD - an obsession with efficiency, rigid ways of doing things etc. He seems to have viewed old people as an "inefficient" drain on the system.
'Like other serial killers, he also seems to have had a form of OCPD' Are you confusing Obstructive C Pulmonary Diease with Over Confident Psyschpathic Disorder? So I have never heard of serial killers having a significant number with OCPD. The film was not showing any evidence of that. OCPD is usually associated with sufferers of respiratory problems. Often due to long term cigerette smoking. But if you were baiting a trap then I may have stepped right in to in as likely he did die of OCPD in the end. But sudden onset fatal OCPD such as he died of is not the common OCPD.
The answer to why he did it is actually in this drama, if the producers and the audience did but know it. He did it because he was born evil. The vicar when asked if some people were, didn't know the answer because he doesn't read the book of his trade. Psalm 58.The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.But it is only a certain category of people this could apply to.
was so difficult to defend him - due to weight of evidence and hideousness of crime. I’m a Gp i’m uk and “ lived “ r through this - it was aweful, the ripples etc - but he was way out there as a psychopath. there are still many , no doubt, as there would be in any trade- it’s just his “profligacy “ that was so fkg him - led to lots of fkg pointless changes within the profession as he’d still sail through with shinning colours! there are many articles etc about the whole thing including his solicitors attitudes/stance - including when he broke down ( true part of this docudrama)
@@kevinprior3549by suggesting that perhaps he may have been framed by a jealous colleague, a grudging ex patient's family member, a detective who could anticipate and lay "traps" for him to fall into, an IT expert computer programmer - all manner of possible ways a conspiracy could be formulated to frame somebody... I wonder if there's a single scenario anywhere in criminal investigation, that couldn't possibly be attributed to the possibility of an intelligent individual framing somebody else successfully and thoroughly enough for others to be persuaded of guilt???
@letsdiscussitoversometea8479 the first part of the case was purely circumstantial, nobody actually saw it happen. Often just before dying of an injected overdose they had been visited by Shipman. A jury are meant to be sure beyond all reasonable doubt before coming back with a guilty verdict.
It's because GPs are untouchable. They are like politicians, you can't do much to them unless enough of "their own kind" raise some kind of alarm bell. The whole system is screwed up.
It was a pension payout on death that he was entitled to, £100,000 and £10,000 a year even with suicide up to the age of 60. If he did it the day after his 60th birthday she would only have received ony £5,000 a year. He did it the day before.his 58th birthday.
JUDGMENT IS WORLDWIDE. THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND! "AND WHOSOEVER WAS NOT FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE." REPENT AND RECEIVE JESUS AS YOUR LORD AND SAVIOUR TO HAVE YOUR NAME SECURED IN HIS BOOK OF LIFE! TIME IS WINDING UP. YOU MUST BE "BORN AGAIN" TO SEE GOD'S KINGDOM. THERE WILL BE NO PROFANITY IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD! HALLELUJAH! 🙏🙌💞
I am offended by your comments about a imaginary thing. Read your children's book of fairy tales. Then answer with the truth. Earth, 6,000 years old. After that go on and answer about man's rib, I have 27 other questions. I dare you or any preacher to explain in an intelligent manner. If you will think about it, preachers never talk about certain things written in you children's book.
In the insane Christian idology Jesus forvives all. So Christians have a soft spot for the likes of Doctor mass murderer Shipman. Love thy enemy they preach. So clearly the heaven they conceptulise is a heaven with all the vilest most hedious peadophiles, murderers, buggers and theives in. So it's probably packed with Catholics along with most of the underworld. Funny how Christians seem to think they are good but they have no divide in their supposed good book of the good world and underworld. Ironically the largest portion of the New Christian Bible was written by a serial murderer (Saul/Paul).
This was based on true life events and the acting was brilliant. James Bolam had Shipmans voice and appearance accurately! It’s not your Hollywood fakery with grating purring accents and even more fake appearances. Your opinion “sucks bad “ lol
H xbm Out of curiosity what is your problem with it? I thought it was effective and enjoyable and I thought the portrayal of Shipman as kind mild mannered but exceedingly arrogant under the surface was well done.
Chillling though that if he hadn’t got so damn greedy forging that will or so out’ve control with his desire to kill more frequently nobody would’ve actually proved anything.. He would’ve never been caught… He can’t be the only doctor to of done this before procedures we’re tightened up… Still possible now , especially if say a GP & a funeral director were in cahoots together…
![ALLY - OH MY! [ REACTION ] 'Amarin Nitibhon' #ALLY_OHMY #ALLY #allynitibhon #แอลลี่](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nX9qpHjVfbQ/mqdefault.jpg)
James Bolam, such a convincing performance; truly a great actor who can play comedy as well as serious roles.
Agreed I also love him as jack in new tricks xxx
The Harold Shipman case, as with the Jimmy Saville case, was really an indictment of the 20th century. A culture that was excessively deferential to authority and status, naive and perhaps most damning, not wanting to know. There was a simplistic victorian authoritarianism that ran through society. People were still divided into the deserving and the undeserving. If you didn't conform, you deserved everything you got. If you were "respectable", you could do no wrong.
Agree
In fairness people tend to take other people as we find them, we don't really think it likely my colleague is a monster.
Can you say a boaal of waahh
A wonderful nuanced performance by Bolam. This is excellent.
I seriously doubt a detective would be discussing a live murder case with a priest. That would be gross misconduct.
Yes, small towns are very similar to villages; so that's how the off duty Policeman was in the Church choir; etc.
@jackharrison6771 you can't chat about a live murder investigation. That would be gross misconduct.
Such a first-rate film. Watching it again.
RIP James Hazeldine and who he played Stan Egerton who brought this Monster to justice.
The 2 interview scenes are brilliant
1:07:35 was brilliant acting by Hazeldine, when he had to shout at Shipman.
excellent actor have admired him for years and others in this cast
Highly appropriate for the undertaker to have grave concerns, you gotta love the british gallows humour
Dont know about gallows humour but it was true. It was like when one has an alcoholic at work, everyone knows but very few bring it to light,,a well documented phenomina.
@@chuckabutty888 You're right there. I worked on the gatehouse security and one guy would pull up in his car and hand his id over in the morning his head was bright purple and he had the usual thousand yard stare. Apart from one guy who made fun of him to me nobody said a word. Not even the boss of the whole place who was the fussiest pain in the arse you could meet and the reason I left. This alcoholic would come in, driving, pissed as a fart every day.
Ironic that Shipman’s IT arrogance and woefully pathetic forging of Mrs Grundy’s will proved to be his undoing.
Arrogance in general seemed to me to be his undoing.
@@TroystonBI think he wanted to be caught or otherwise wouldn't have so pathetically forged a will
@@patriceaqa288 I think it's his narcissistic personality, he truly thought he was so much better than everyone else and that he could get away with it rather than wanting to get caught. I've seen the real shipman talking and he's even smugger and more arrogant sounding than the portrayal of him in this drama. I can see why he got caught. He thought he was untouchable after so many years of getting away with murder.
@paulanthony5274 yes the fact he didn't do a no comment interview meant he must have thought he was clever enough to outsmart the interviewers.
@@lw3646 Yes and I've heard some of the police interviews and the drama is pretty much word for word. Obviously the acting makes it more dramatic sounding but shipman is just as smug, saying things like "you switch it on" in a smug arrogant manner.
Well taken. British movies are a class of its own
No one talking about the fact it was all shot on location!
My current practice is the Brooke surgery who caught him, it’s in this film, so is the road and shipman’s practice. I never knew about this history and just happened to stumble over the fact watching this film that my doctors practice is in the film exactly as it is in real life. Hit me like a brick 🧱 Wild to think about. The brooke surgery ironically won the best practice in the uk award. Seems being good doctors is a theme that runs strong considering they were the ones who caught him. ✌️
I'm almost curious enough to come down and check it out.
James Bolam, one of his best ever roles...a long way from the Likely Lads.
Really like the actor playing the detective Walt (in the Christmas scene. Sadly, that actor died shortly after completing this movie.
Shipman hanged himself in his cell at HM Prison Wakefield at 6:20 a.m. on 13 January 2004. The cold coward. May he rot in hell.
He hung himself as his life insurance policy would have expired on his birthday the next day and his wife would have lost a fortune as if he lived past his next birthday the policy would have become null and void but as he did die his wife was able to make the claim and got a substantial amount of money.
@@chantalsscaleisafibber
Yeah, he had a good head for business.
@@chantalsscaleisafibber Yup ! A greedy bastard to the end even if it was for his wife
@@chuckabutty888 yep as basically set her up for the rest of her life.Maybe a law should be set that even with life insurance a convicted person shouldn't be allowed nor should the family of the convicted person from things like life insurance payouts.Maybe if by law the insurance company has to pay out on a claim then the money should go to the victims and or the victims families of their crime(s).If the victim/victims families don't want the payment then it's divvied up against a certain number of charities that the victim(s)/victim(s) families support/supported. Shipman knowing his family couldn't profit then off the life Insurance and he maybe alive rotting in prison.
@@chantalsscaleisafibber Good point, makes me wonder if insurance companies amended things after this, I dont know. His wfe was found innocent of any knowledge but alas she should not have benefited thus in a way making her a victim herself though obviously not as severe as those he killed. Hell, that guy affected so many people, makes my blood boil thinking about it.
56:40 & 1:21:10 interview parts are brilliant!
The male copper in the 2nd interview really attacked Shipman and quite rightly.
Such a shame he never admitted to his crimes or gave an explanation before he took his own life. The families of his victims will never know exactly why he did it, which must be so upsetting.
Nice to see James hazeldine in another film I've only known him as bayleaf
lol old 90's DOS browser.. man I remember those.
Thanks for posting this. It
s a well made and sympathetic production. My condolences for all concerned, and the good people of Hyde. I visited Hyde around 2009- ish at at an event in the Cuban restaurant. But it was after dark, so I didn't get the benefit of seeing more.
Each time I see this, I'm afraid I can't help getting the idea that the first victim had become a nuisance to Shipman.
At 45:00 mins, It's terrible the hassle that Detective gets, when he enters his Club for a quiet pint. Especially that one who runs the auction, in the opening scenes. I never liked the roles that he gets. I suppose its not his fault, e can see his sort all over.
I tend not to watch much true crime but James Bolam and James Hazeldine from London’s Burning made this worth watching and a satisfying conclusion.
Thank you for posting this
Oh my!! Powerful performances by so many English actors renound for portraying every day working men and women to great effect. As for James Bolam what a superb performance, when you listen to the real tapes of Shipman they sound so alike. British actors hit the nail on the head so many times and this is a wonderful example. Superb is an under statement. May Shipman burn in hell for eternity and may his victims now rest in peace with the truth of his crimes exposed.
If Harold Shipman was alive today the Lucy Letby is innocent brigade would try and get him off too.
Love this movie!
I love Siobhan Finneran. She's brilliant in everything.
she is
It’s frightening to think if he hadn’t got arrogant and began to kill larger amounts of people (which began to make people suspicious) he may have got away with it for longer period of time and maybe avoided being caught. Obviously his downfall was forging a patients Will and Testament. Absolutely frightening to think it’s possible this man killed 200+ people who had nothing but complete trust in him.
He also didn’t think that his computer would leave a digital footprint on all of its files.
They think he deliberately forged his last victims will because he wanted to he caught because he was out of control.
Have just read some off the inquiry files, i know there was lots of victims, but the one ive just been reading about has brought me to tears as its so sad, this victim is only 47!!!4 years older than myself and same age as my sister, and this womans only ailment for this beastard to come visit was a bloody asthma attack and then he decided on murdering her with a OD of large dose of diamorphine with her 22 year old daughter upstairs, but being still quite young and quite healthy, she did not die has he hoped, before the ambulance people got there.... and they got her pulse and breathing sort of again, but only for her to reach the hospital brain dead and to live in vegatated state for a month, untill she finally passed away, because the horrible bugger didnt expect her to arrive at hospital with a beating heart and obviously beyond help and dead, he had to fess up what he'd injected her with, but this he changed to morphine in a lower amount, being asthmatic this still red flagged to most of the doctors and even then a coroners inquest wasnt called for, maybe just maybe if it had, then this evil cnt wouldnt have gone on to kill and focus on our most vunerable our elderly... RIP R.O im one more person in the world who can say a prayer for you now.....
I read a lot of the inquiry files, very sad.
It took the cowardly way out by hanging himself
And he killed at least one 4 year old kid
Here after Nurse Letby has been convicted for killing babies. I definitely see her as a female Dr Shipman.
I wonder if they'll be a drama about that, like this one.
Who knows it could happen ,However it is far too soon to do a drama about Lucy Letby
@@gavinmartin5151 Possibly but then this drama was 2002, only 4 years after his arrest.
@@UrbanPicturesUK well it may be too soon still to air a drama about Lucy Letby. but it would be nice to see someone playing Lucy and giving us a insight on what Lucy Letby was like behind the scenes
@gavinmartin5151 no times have moved on a bit now I think. The trouble with this is the killer becomes the main focus and the victims become marginal. If they do make it then they will make it about the doctors working in the hospital and she will just be an out of focus person in the background.
It's kind of a way to take some power back I guess....
@@Leylandman1 did you work for Beverly Allitt ?
Near the end - in the police station interview room at 1 22' 22" - DS Mark Wareing (Ken Bradshaw) should have followed up the question on Shipman, back at the practice, himself editing patient notes on the computer with something such as: "So, do you log onto the computer yourself, straight after getting back from the patient's house? And is there no-one else at the practice who would do this?"
This would complete the trap for when the police reveal what they know about the "ghost" computer records.
James Bolam was great
I thought he was awful. Far too strong a regional accent, Shipman was quite posh and had a deep voice
@@joethelion6016 I know what you mean about the accent but the scene where he had the nervous breakdown was some good acting and shown his range and what he can do.
@@paulanthony5274 he's a good enough actor he was just nothing like Shipman
@@joethelion6016 Yes, good point, I listened to shipmans voice, very well spoken. You'd never guess what he was doing. They could have at least told him to tone down the northeast accent in the drama.
Always felt this real life drama was like A Touch of Frost episode. And a lot of moustaches in that police station
Yes, it’s got similar characteristics as A Touch of Frost
@@jennawalden8547 absolutely
@@jennawalden8547 guy that plays Stan seems to say "bloody hell" a lot but not in a rude way.
@@kevinprior3549 A good old Lancashire expression
@@chuckabutty888 he goes home at the end of the day for some Lancashire hotpot....
its a great programme
Did he really have a box full of gold wedding bands?
And nobody asked where they went?
This was brought up on some of the documentaries about Shipman, if you TH-cam 'shipman' they pop up, missing jewelry caused a lot of fights within families as the family members believed other relatives had taken valuable/meaningful items
I have literally just posted a comment about the jewellery & how Shipman's wife Primrose told police it was hers, even though she was already wearing a gold wedding band & another gold ring.
Primrose Shipman DEFINITELY SHOULD HAVE been taken in for questioning about the jewellery🤔🤔.
@@tracywallace903 this is turning into a saga now Dave.
The taxi driver was a great detective...
It didn't take a genius to figure out what was going on.
Jeff Nuttall (author of Bomb Culture) as the Judge in the closing scene!
A scary amount of narcissists go into the medical/healthcare profession….
So perplexing. Why did he do it?
Power and mummy issues
Nothing on telly
Mrs Mellor's daughter is played by Siobhan Finneran. She played Rita on the film Rita, Sue & Bob Too in 1986.
I thought it was!
Debauched film.🤨😑
@@repentbeforeitstoolate..8239 nonsense I think it is a good film. Very mid 80s in every way.
I love her in Benidorm and Alma's Not Normal. Brilliant actress.
@@repentbeforeitstoolate..8239It's a brilliant film portrays the era perfectly
Thankyou x
Very recently there's been a female Dr Shipman... Nurse Letby. She killed 7 babies, so i hope like Shipman will be jailed for life or at least a very long time.
I'm watching this after the Letby news.
No. She's a nurse, not a doctor and on trial, but not yet convicted.
@@markcynic808 I know. I said Nurse Letby so I already stated it.
@Steven Universe
No. Letby. Allit was 3 decades ago.
She was convicted today for seven counts of murder.
What I still 2 this day, don't get is why Shipman's wife wasn't charged with perverting the course of justice🤔, cos when the police were searching the Shipman's home & garage the officer found a carrier bag with some rings in & wen he asked Shipman's wife, Primrose "Who's are these" she replied "Mine".... They may have been hers, but a family member of 1 of his victims did say that some pieces of jewellery were missing.
I may be wrong, but as far as I'm aware after watching EVERY SINGLE "Shipman" documentary, the police NEVER removed any of the jewellery found on Shipman's property & the families were NEVER asked 2 identity any of the items either.
She was confronted with one of the victims daughter and yes she had the ring with the inscription on it.
@leszo2 Thankyou 4 letting me know, after all the documentaries I have seen I never found that out.
@@tracywallace903 this info comes from my friend who lives in Denton just on the border with Hyde. Her friends mom was one of the victims.
@leszo2 It's all the families I feel sorry 4, not only did that evil scumbag rob them of precious time with their loved ones he also took the cowards way out, robbed them of proper justice & never gave them the closure they needed by telling them WHY he did what he did😢😢.
Because she was white, that's why.
I wonder why shipman did it, I wonder, we will never know now, but it’s absolutely terrifying that anybody could do such a thing. I was only 9 when this happened but I remember it so well. I pray and hope that the poor souls went to heaven, that is no consolation to the families of the victims. Some people don’t believe in evil, well you only have to know of this man and what he did to understand evil does exist.
There's no explanation. He didn't benefit financially from the murders, no evidence he had any grudge or there was any dispute or trouble between doctor and patient, he was a well respected and well liked member of the community. No sign he was suffering from psychosis or schizophrenia. It just seems he became addicted to playing God, exercising the power of life and death over his patients.
Sharp scratch
@@Lorenzo-cp7qs just roll up your sleeve !
@@lw3646 There are theories that he hated older people and disposed of them. He was very clever in his tactics, that he would make the deaths look like “the perfect death”. The forged will of his last victim is ultimately what got him caught. However, there were systemic failings dating back to the mid 70s when he was nearly struck off for forging prescriptions and being a drug addict.
@@romancatholicword528 Oh it’s my ash cash
Did most male CID officers in the late 90s have moustaches?
All of em
N the females
No.....
Interviews with cid geezers showed they were neat and tidy
It was the trend yes
@@chuckabutty888 Even my Nan/Gran had one.
How did he have any patients left with killing most of them.
Officially he killed about one in twelve of the patients on his books, but a much higher proportion of those over 60.
Always more over the years as people age.
Anyone know the name of the choral music sung in the church at the end of the drama?
ive found out for you lol, requiem agnus dei, you're welcome haha
@@pearlkelly6337 Thank you so much
Good crime drama it's on talking pictures tv tonight
Not a great place to retire to...☹️
you are too wrong.
You're comment doesn't even make sense.
Hyde? Yeah, I grew up there. Even the pigeons fly upside down because there's nowt worth crapping on!
@@nubtupro5838 he’s right you sausage
They reckon he was killing patients right from the start of his career. He mother died from cancer when he was a child and he saw her being injected with morphine. When he became a doctor he was addicted to pethidine and he went on to start killing patients. The initial police investigation was botched at first and I think if he hadn’t become greedy when he killed his last victim he might never have been caught. When he was convicted some police interview material was shown on the news. His arrogance was breathtaking. The insinuation has always been that he killed patients just because he could. He thought he was better than anyone else and he liked having the power of life and death, but in the end he killer himself in prison and showed what a pathetic coward he was.
We shall never know. He made Jack The Ripper look like an amateur.
I lived less than 4 miles from that devil..
Did you ever see him
You obviously weren't a patient😉
I'm also tempted to visit Hyde, morbid curiosity I guess....
Is the Renault espace the actual one Shipman drove? Same.plate.
I understand that it was.
@@philipinchinaI'm only after realising I never googled what year the film came out in... 2002. Highly likely it is his actual car. Only 4 years after he was arrested.
Pretty sure a props department can fake a plate.
I'm almost curious enough to go to Hyde and have a look round.
Going to play Hyde and seek eh?
Not much to see. The doctor surgery is still there though !
Some psychologists now believe that Shipman was somewhere on the autistic spectrum - it would explain his problems with "theory or mind" - problems that some autistic people (amongst others) have in understanding that other people may feel, think and behave differently to how you are. He was also clearly massively narcissistic (something which can look very similar to some traits of autism) and may well have had traits of OCPD (which is different to OCD). Its traits include a need to be right, in control, inability to handle criticism, and obsession with efficiency and order, inability to delegate because "you do it right and other don't", perfectionism, black & white thinking and fixation on certain tasks. OCPD is also often comorbid with autism.
I have definitely read a lack of the ability to feel empathy is common with serial killers.
Other warmings can be a traumatic childhood in some way and the need to take back a sense of power by preying on the vulnerable.
They are also mostly men and often there's a kind of sexual motive but that's quite complicated.
I've worked with plenty of people probably on the autism spectrum, they can be a bit socially awkward but overall very nice people very good at their work.
I'm watching this just now. Bolam is nothing like him. The voice is a million miles off
at first but he got into the character and displayed that he had more hubris than Basil Brush ( why BBC sacked Bas back in 1978 when Billy C did not bother to offer a contract.
He's acting, 99% of the UK has no idea how he spoke. It's the content that matters.
Actually we do. There are several Shipman documentaries, try watching one. He was from Nottingham, he affected a posh accent. Nothing like Bolam's performance
@@joethelion6016and 99% of the population hasn't seen it / them.
@@zeddeka How would you know?
48:00 the most bizarre pizza ever...
Large Pepporoni with Anchovies. Dilicious. Nut I understand anchovies are not everyones loved ones.
Pretty sure I saw that actor play a policeman in a crimewatch reconstruction.
Was James hazeldine in chalky children tv series about 40 years ago ?
“The bastad!” 😂
OK so WHY does old Crippin have pictures of pigs on his surgery wall?
was coz i
there was a national problem with foot and mouth at time so thee were lots of weird posters around and swathes of the countryside, country parks, farm land etc surrounded by big disinfectant soaked pads to walk over. was big deal-
there’s also an idea he personally had a thing about pigs but think , between timing n stuff is the first/
i was GP
in one of the ‘shires and it was every day stuff during those days .
blessings from
🏴
@@nogoodboyo1 Yes, I remember the Foot & Mouth case - the BIG one. A lot of farmers needed Counselling and 'The Samaritans' took a lot of suicide calls, because many lost ALL of their livestock. it just seemed odd to see that particular image on his wall.
@@jackharrison6771 having looked at the stats years ago ( being a Gp/AnE whatever- )
more farmers committed suicide with the crisis being explicitly stated than prob 10 x as many people may possibly perhaps have thought aboutbCJD etc-
fkg pathetic-
n of course there’s beeen reruns since/
some common sense advice and some absolute shyte advice:reporting.
at some point “death by influence of media bias”
has to nestle with involuntary manslaughter -et al--- -
those years were fkg aweful
@@nogoodboyo1 Was it Swine Flu? Or what H.Shipman photographed in the mirror when he looked in to one. 'A real live swine'.
@@MikeGreenwood51 bit like Candyman you mean?!
grim times whichever way around .
I would recommend the Audiobook- Evil Beyond Belief; by Wensley Clarkson.
Lovely man..
Hyde was the home town ofMyra Hindly.
Her home town was Gorton and she was moved to Hattersley (a part of Hyde) during the slum clearances of the 60s. Brady was from Scotland. Even shipman wasn’t originally from Hyde. All these notorious murderers including Dale Creegan ended up in and around Hyde but none of them originated from there. I’m only saying as Hyde gets a bad reputation due to these people
Dale Cregan murdered two policewomen there too.
Brock Lesnar is from Hyde
Leave it to a priest to try to justify murder.
Don't entirely trust priests
I live a mile away from his old surgery in Hyde; it’s a vegan curry restaurant nowadays! 😂
What's the joke? Dead old people funny?
Shipman went there because he could murder a nan
Sorry
@@cherylgraham3004 That's tasteless, horrible and hilarious.
Last time I went back home to Hyde it was a medical centre
@@joethelion6016 not funny if you know the people
He was mine and my mums doctor...
A great doctor I can imagine 😏😏😏
Then think yourself lucky to still be alive ❤
I don't live that far from Hyde
😬
All kinds of theories about Harold Shipman and why he did it. First of all, he seems to have been a gross narcissist. Like all people like that, he lived in a dream world where he was superior to everyone else, he could do whatever he wanted and others were too stupid to catch him. This seems to have been encouraged from an early age by his mother. Then there was the death of his mother - she died a slow, painful death from cancer, and the local doctor would stop by to administer morphine to her. It was after his death that for the first time he expressed a desire to become a doctor. Many believe that he was trying to recreate his mother's death. It's also been speculated that he may have had some form of autism. Like other serial killers, he also seems to have had a form of OCPD - an obsession with efficiency, rigid ways of doing things etc. He seems to have viewed old people as an "inefficient" drain on the system.
'Like other serial killers, he also seems to have had a form of OCPD' Are you confusing Obstructive C Pulmonary Diease with Over Confident Psyschpathic Disorder? So I have never heard of serial killers having a significant number with OCPD. The film was not showing any evidence of that. OCPD is usually associated with sufferers of respiratory problems. Often due to long term cigerette smoking. But if you were baiting a trap then I may have stepped right in to in as likely he did die of OCPD in the end. But sudden onset fatal OCPD such as he died of is not the common OCPD.
The answer to why he did it is actually in this drama, if the producers and the audience did but know it. He did it because he was born evil. The vicar when asked if some people were, didn't know the answer because he doesn't read the book of his trade. Psalm 58.The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.But it is only a certain category of people this could apply to.
He had a Terrible lawyer even she was trying to get him to confess
was so difficult to defend him -
due to weight of evidence and hideousness of crime. I’m a Gp i’m uk and “ lived “ r through this - it was aweful, the ripples etc - but he was way out there as a psychopath. there are still many , no doubt, as there would be in any trade- it’s just his “profligacy “ that was so fkg him - led to lots of fkg pointless changes within the profession as he’d still sail through with shinning colours!
there are many articles etc about the whole thing including his solicitors attitudes/stance - including when he broke down ( true part of this docudrama)
How could anyone defend him
@@kevinprior3549by suggesting that perhaps he may have been framed by a jealous colleague, a grudging ex patient's family member, a detective who could anticipate and lay "traps" for him to fall into, an IT expert computer programmer - all manner of possible ways a conspiracy could be formulated to frame somebody...
I wonder if there's a single scenario anywhere in criminal investigation, that couldn't possibly be attributed to the possibility of an intelligent individual framing somebody else successfully and thoroughly enough for others to be persuaded of guilt???
@letsdiscussitoversometea8479 the first part of the case was purely circumstantial, nobody actually saw it happen. Often just before dying of an injected overdose they had been visited by Shipman. A jury are meant to be sure beyond all reasonable doubt before coming back with a guilty verdict.
If the evidence is overwhelming a good solicitor probably would tell you your best choice is to confess and recieve credit for an early guilty plea.
why wasn't Shipman struck off after giving the man with pneumonia such high dosages ..which was proven..
It's because GPs are untouchable. They are like politicians, you can't do much to them unless enough of "their own kind" raise some kind of alarm bell. The whole system is screwed up.
An absolute devil greed and power
💯% 👍
14:50 another scene where infants could have acted better but I still love it lol.
the rumor is james boyan won an oscar for his portrayal of Dr Shi t man
@@nettils5555 James Boyan is James Bonhams alter egrit answer to Q B , by cheating
@@nettils5555 at last i don't use any pic of a woofter for my profile :P eh barrowboy?
Boyan? who he
@@nogoodboyo1 jimmy mac puddin
Dr deaths
Superbly done. My mother in law was in he North West but I am sorry to say, she was not one of his!
that's gold right there :)
Bloody hell 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
She's was lucky then. Why are you saying sorry though?
@@kevinprior3549 .....smfh
He thinks he's a comedian. @@kevinprior3549
Why didn't he realise that life insurance don't pay out for suicide
Because his wife got a payment of £100,000 by the fact that he does before retirement
It was a pension payout on death that he was entitled to, £100,000 and £10,000 a year even with suicide up to the age of 60. If he did it the day after his 60th birthday she would only have received ony £5,000 a year. He did it the day before.his 58th birthday.
Same tribe see.
eh?
There are more Doctors do this today out there Never think Doctor Shipman the only one. Because he not.
Really? Tell us their names.
@@markcynic808 there is Nurse Letby although she's not a doctor but still connected to medical care.
There were plenty before him…. Today has nothing to do with it. But no they’re not everywhere
@@BloodGuyReviews
Name them, Billy Liar?
I doctor and I do this. It chill
JUDGMENT IS WORLDWIDE.
THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND!
"AND WHOSOEVER WAS NOT FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE."
REPENT AND RECEIVE JESUS AS YOUR LORD AND SAVIOUR TO HAVE YOUR NAME SECURED IN HIS BOOK OF LIFE!
TIME IS WINDING UP.
YOU MUST BE "BORN AGAIN" TO SEE GOD'S KINGDOM.
THERE WILL BE NO PROFANITY IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD!
HALLELUJAH! 🙏🙌💞
Amen brother!✝️🙂
I am offended by your comments about a imaginary thing. Read your children's book of fairy tales. Then answer with the truth. Earth, 6,000 years old. After that go on and answer about man's rib, I have 27 other questions. I dare you or any preacher to explain in an intelligent manner. If you will think about it, preachers never talk about certain things written in you children's book.
In the insane Christian idology Jesus forvives all. So Christians have a soft spot for the likes of Doctor mass murderer Shipman. Love thy enemy they preach. So clearly the heaven they conceptulise is a heaven with all the vilest most hedious peadophiles, murderers, buggers and theives in. So it's probably packed with Catholics along with most of the underworld. Funny how Christians seem to think they are good but they have no divide in their supposed good book of the good world and underworld. Ironically the largest portion of the New Christian Bible was written by a serial murderer (Saul/Paul).
No repentance on his part at any stage
Wtf
haha i know!
We speak English here . Not gibberish.
The acting in this is terrible lmfao !
Made for TV movie mate most of them are but good
@@jefferydahmersglasses4771 oh yeah don’t get me wrong I enjoyed it, well it watching old people getting bumped off is enjoyable !
@@romancatholicword528 lmfao
The main cast were very good, but some of the actors doing the smaller roles were absolutely shocking.
@@jefferydahmersglasses4771 you should learn to spell .🙄
lol the acting in this sucks so bad
Yanks don't appreciate it! !
This was based on true life events and the acting was brilliant. James Bolam had Shipmans voice and appearance accurately! It’s not your Hollywood fakery with grating purring accents and even more fake appearances. Your opinion “sucks bad “ lol
LOL, you're the first person I've ever heard call James Bolam a bad actor!
@@daveywillie8.6 I liked this movie. I remember the case well.
Shut up ya fool this guy plays a great part even sounds and looks like Dr shipman
The real crime is this film!
H xbm Out of curiosity what is your problem with it? I thought it was effective and enjoyable and I thought the portrayal of Shipman as kind mild mannered but exceedingly arrogant under the surface was well done.
it’s good, read the books and you’ll get the film.. they have put in a lot of detail
@@patriceaqa288 it's shit 😂 low budget bad acting
@@llwydanwyl I don't really want to research a serial killer as intense but I'll take your word for it 🤣
@@hxbm3427 based on what
Crayp
doesnt show why it all began
Just later life
Worst serial killer program ever
It's a drama covering a specific period, it's not a serial killer documentary. It's a quality drama.
Chillling though that if he hadn’t got so damn greedy forging that will or so out’ve control with his desire to kill more frequently nobody would’ve actually proved anything.. He would’ve never been caught… He can’t be the only doctor to of done this before procedures we’re tightened up… Still possible now , especially if say a GP & a funeral director were in cahoots together…