Great video. I think what you’ve inadvertently revealed is just how much weight matters wrt rolling resistance. Or maybe the discs are just awful on gravel? Super illustrations of how bad hitting the front really is.
I rode with 3 riders at the end of a race using the lightest setup (aethos and millenstein) and I had to put out more w/kg than the other 3 riders just to keep up in the draft (back of the line). Aero setup destroys light setup on the flats.
Just at 22 mins where you get stuck and the other rider gets to the front easily. This is where I have found in PP rides it easier to breakaway with no stick than to hang around at the back with riders who you can't trust to hold the wheel. This would make racing ridiculously hard if everyone is fighting for that optimal spot up near the front..
It's interesting data but i think what you are mostly learning is that draft positioning matters more than bike. Speaking of which, in terms of bike selection, my thoughts are this: 1) In the draft at >40 kph speed, it almost doesn't matter what you are riding. If you are positioning correctly, the overall draft assist is so large, that the individual bike advantage pretty much becomes a rounding error on a really big draft advantage number. 2) RE: Bike selection. To your point, if you were to go to Zwifterbikes and enter a route, almost 95% of the time, the answer is Dogma 2024 + DT Swiss Disc. Even on mountainous routes as long as there is also a descent. That said, when I'm selecting a bike, I don't think about the overall route. I think about the selection points within the route - i.e. where is crunch time when fractions of a second matter between getting dropped or not dropped or getting a sprint podium vs finishing 5th by 0.10 seconds. If I feel that there is a selection point on a climb where I could be at risk - I'll likely go Dogma 2024 + ENVE wheels. If there are climbs but they are too short to be selection points, then I'm going Dogma + Disc wheels. If there are no climbs of note, then I'm going Venge + disc for the final sprint where it can come down to thousandths of a second. The only time I have gone climb oriented are for Climb Portal races at which point the answer is Aethos + Meilenstein if its a steep slow speed climb OR Dogma 2024 + ENVE if it is a shallow, higher speed climb. So, pretty much 1 bike and 1 set of wheels solves 95% of problems and 3 bikes, and 3 sets of wheels solve all problems 😅 in terms of content, make the content you're passionate about and let the audience sort itself out is my thought . . . but what do I know . . . it's only just this week that I finally have more subscribers than videos on my channel 😂
Cheers and spot on points about the bikes, I've always loved the most aero setup as I like the psychological effect of knowing that at the finish I have the best bike for all but a few courses. And agreed on the content, it's enough effort editing, if I am bored of what I make then it won't be fun.
100% this. Never pick a bike based on pack dynamics or even the overall terrain. Always pick a bike based on where you think the race will be decided (for you). If you need a bit of an edge uphill, go Dogma+Disc or Dogma+ENVE based on how close you think it'll be... if you won't get dropped uphill or you can't force a split/breakaway there, just go full Aero.
would be slightly interesting to see the 2 bikes v each other on the radio tower. then the descent to see if im right about the outcome. great vid Ben cheers.
I agree, I'd need to enter a race to get the proper supertuck though. But I agree, atm if you have a long descent then choosing the full aero setup will actually be faster overall. I know zwift are changing how drafting behind riders on the descent work so that'll change things perhaps.
How about testing aero bike with something other than the disc wheel (which is also aero but seems kind of heavy)? I feel like I'm always dropped on the climbs with the disc wheel. Or just an all arounder bike/wheel setup versus aero setup with disc wheel?
The big takeaway here for me is that you could run an aero bike and non disk wheel if you aren't going for sprints. The difference of effort was tiny and just one poor positioning effort was a far bigger difference than bike choice.
In this test the Specialized Tarmac Pro should have been used as the climbing bike , it's 2 stars Aero and 4 stars weight and use the same DT Swiss Disc as the felt , The Bridgestone to me is an all-rounder
I'll try get some more tests in, the issue being I don't want to use a bot to farm zwift for the bikes on my second account. The Bridgestone has the same climbing performance up the alpe as the tarmac pro according to Zwiftinsider, a fact I probably should have spent time explaining in the 50 minute video 😂. zwiftinsider.com/bridgestone-sr9s/
Great video. I think what you’ve inadvertently revealed is just how much weight matters wrt rolling resistance. Or maybe the discs are just awful on gravel?
Super illustrations of how bad hitting the front really is.
15:51 I’m glad I’m not the only one that notices that people push super hard through the arcade
I rode with 3 riders at the end of a race using the lightest setup (aethos and millenstein) and I had to put out more w/kg than the other 3 riders just to keep up in the draft (back of the line). Aero setup destroys light setup on the flats.
Super cool, thanks!
Just at 22 mins where you get stuck and the other rider gets to the front easily. This is where I have found in PP rides it easier to breakaway with no stick than to hang around at the back with riders who you can't trust to hold the wheel. This would make racing ridiculously hard if everyone is fighting for that optimal spot up near the front..
It's interesting data but i think what you are mostly learning is that draft positioning matters more than bike. Speaking of which, in terms of bike selection, my thoughts are this:
1) In the draft at >40 kph speed, it almost doesn't matter what you are riding. If you are positioning correctly, the overall draft assist is so large, that the individual bike advantage pretty much becomes a rounding error on a really big draft advantage number.
2) RE: Bike selection. To your point, if you were to go to Zwifterbikes and enter a route, almost 95% of the time, the answer is Dogma 2024 + DT Swiss Disc. Even on mountainous routes as long as there is also a descent.
That said, when I'm selecting a bike, I don't think about the overall route. I think about the selection points within the route - i.e. where is crunch time when fractions of a second matter between getting dropped or not dropped or getting a sprint podium vs finishing 5th by 0.10 seconds. If I feel that there is a selection point on a climb where I could be at risk - I'll likely go Dogma 2024 + ENVE wheels. If there are climbs but they are too short to be selection points, then I'm going Dogma + Disc wheels. If there are no climbs of note, then I'm going Venge + disc for the final sprint where it can come down to thousandths of a second.
The only time I have gone climb oriented are for Climb Portal races at which point the answer is Aethos + Meilenstein if its a steep slow speed climb OR Dogma 2024 + ENVE if it is a shallow, higher speed climb. So, pretty much 1 bike and 1 set of wheels solves 95% of problems and 3 bikes, and 3 sets of wheels solve all problems 😅
in terms of content, make the content you're passionate about and let the audience sort itself out is my thought . . . but what do I know . . . it's only just this week that I finally have more subscribers than videos on my channel 😂
Cheers and spot on points about the bikes, I've always loved the most aero setup as I like the psychological effect of knowing that at the finish I have the best bike for all but a few courses.
And agreed on the content, it's enough effort editing, if I am bored of what I make then it won't be fun.
100% this. Never pick a bike based on pack dynamics or even the overall terrain. Always pick a bike based on where you think the race will be decided (for you). If you need a bit of an edge uphill, go Dogma+Disc or Dogma+ENVE based on how close you think it'll be... if you won't get dropped uphill or you can't force a split/breakaway there, just go full Aero.
I'm seeing that pack position is most important. Loose the draft or hit the front and you need to put in an effort to keep draft high.
would be slightly interesting to see the 2 bikes v each other on the radio tower. then the descent to see if im right about the outcome. great vid Ben cheers.
I agree, I'd need to enter a race to get the proper supertuck though. But I agree, atm if you have a long descent then choosing the full aero setup will actually be faster overall. I know zwift are changing how drafting behind riders on the descent work so that'll change things perhaps.
I wish they would just make bikes purely cosmetic, the fact that you can do that is one of the big advantages of riding in a virtual world after all..
I haven't started yet but I can't wait for Zwift to watch this and change stuff #influencer
It was hard to edit this as their isn't anything that surprising in it 😂
How about testing aero bike with something other than the disc wheel (which is also aero but seems kind of heavy)? I feel like I'm always dropped on the climbs with the disc wheel. Or just an all arounder bike/wheel setup versus aero setup with disc wheel?
The big takeaway here for me is that you could run an aero bike and non disk wheel if you aren't going for sprints. The difference of effort was tiny and just one poor positioning effort was a far bigger difference than bike choice.
In this test the Specialized Tarmac Pro should have been used as the climbing bike , it's 2 stars Aero and 4 stars weight and use the same DT Swiss Disc as the felt , The Bridgestone to me is an all-rounder
I'll try get some more tests in, the issue being I don't want to use a bot to farm zwift for the bikes on my second account. The Bridgestone has the same climbing performance up the alpe as the tarmac pro according to Zwiftinsider, a fact I probably should have spent time explaining in the 50 minute video 😂. zwiftinsider.com/bridgestone-sr9s/