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Love the rant! I’m distracted about how good your setup looks onscreen. That lighting, man. Top notch!

I'm seeing that pack position is most important. Loose the draft or hit the front and you need to put in an effort to keep draft high.

Kudos Ben. You did really well!

I rode with 3 riders at the end of a race using the lightest setup (aethos and millenstein) and I had to put out more w/kg than the other 3 riders just to keep up in the draft (back of the line). Aero setup destroys light setup on the flats.

Super cool, thanks!

I disagree. I like seeing all of the names so that when the ride is over I can see where others were in proportion to me

I am 100% with removing the names! So flipping annoying especially since I am that guy at the back of the pack doing ZERO work.

not for me mate - I actually thank God I have Sauce because I can understand better how my opponents are feeling through their heart rate & w'bal :)))))))... my NASA Special Shuttle is very informative :P & yeah I am a stats freak :)))

This is what I've used my (custom) build of Sauce for, a completely custom UI experience. But yeah, should at least be a few more options in Zwift config.

I wish they would just make bikes purely cosmetic, the fact that you can do that is one of the big advantages of riding in a virtual world after all..

This. A thousand times this. Also, LOL @ your creepy finish.

I would like to see other riders speed in the rider list.

It should be possible to turn every element of the HUD on or off! It doesn't need to be via hotkey or even in the Zwift UI. Some sort of advanced config page in the companion app or a webpage.

Great video. I think what you’ve inadvertently revealed is just how much weight matters wrt rolling resistance. Or maybe the discs are just awful on gravel? Super illustrations of how bad hitting the front really is.

It's interesting data but i think what you are mostly learning is that draft positioning matters more than bike. Speaking of which, in terms of bike selection, my thoughts are this: 1) In the draft at >40 kph speed, it almost doesn't matter what you are riding. If you are positioning correctly, the overall draft assist is so large, that the individual bike advantage pretty much becomes a rounding error on a really big draft advantage number. 2) RE: Bike selection. To your point, if you were to go to Zwifterbikes and enter a route, almost 95% of the time, the answer is Dogma 2024 + DT Swiss Disc. Even on mountainous routes as long as there is also a descent. That said, when I'm selecting a bike, I don't think about the overall route. I think about the selection points within the route - i.e. where is crunch time when fractions of a second matter between getting dropped or not dropped or getting a sprint podium vs finishing 5th by 0.10 seconds. If I feel that there is a selection point on a climb where I could be at risk - I'll likely go Dogma 2024 + ENVE wheels. If there are climbs but they are too short to be selection points, then I'm going Dogma + Disc wheels. If there are no climbs of note, then I'm going Venge + disc for the final sprint where it can come down to thousandths of a second. The only time I have gone climb oriented are for Climb Portal races at which point the answer is Aethos + Meilenstein if its a steep slow speed climb OR Dogma 2024 + ENVE if it is a shallow, higher speed climb. So, pretty much 1 bike and 1 set of wheels solves 95% of problems and 3 bikes, and 3 sets of wheels solve all problems 😅 in terms of content, make the content you're passionate about and let the audience sort itself out is my thought . . . but what do I know . . . it's only just this week that I finally have more subscribers than videos on my channel 😂

15:51 I’m glad I’m not the only one that notices that people push super hard through the arcade

Just at 22 mins where you get stuck and the other rider gets to the front easily. This is where I have found in PP rides it easier to breakaway with no stick than to hang around at the back with riders who you can't trust to hold the wheel. This would make racing ridiculously hard if everyone is fighting for that optimal spot up near the front..

When steering is working, i use them for the following... 1. To keep up with a group, as there are times when I get gapped due to increase in pace, getting tired or elevation change. 2. To provide a better draft for the group behind. I try to be a team player during rides and provide the best draft to others. I often will call out prior to a sprint that i will lead out starting at 1k before the sprint. 3. Dropping a wheel sucker... while I do not typically do this, if I find that one particular rider never helps with pacemaking, but keeps asking to up the tempo, then I try to drop them.

would be slightly interesting to see the 2 bikes v each other on the radio tower. then the descent to see if im right about the outcome. great vid Ben cheers.

How about testing aero bike with something other than the disc wheel (which is also aero but seems kind of heavy)? I feel like I'm always dropped on the climbs with the disc wheel. Or just an all arounder bike/wheel setup versus aero setup with disc wheel?

In this test the Specialized Tarmac Pro should have been used as the climbing bike , it's 2 stars Aero and 4 stars weight and use the same DT Swiss Disc as the felt , The Bridgestone to me is an all-rounder

I haven't started yet but I can't wait for Zwift to watch this and change stuff #influencer

The video felt a bit unfocused and rambling.

If you want to know and feel how a properly made virtual group ride should work, go and try TrainingPeaks Virtual.

The biggest issue I have is I’m always seeming to fight for side to side position (I have Sterzo steering) and my avatar even bounces side to side when I’m just rolling along in a straight line. I spend most of my rides now screaming “get the bleedin’ hell out of my way!” 😂

Good video! I HATE that they introduced steering, but I bought the Play controllers to get virtual shifting (which I love). - Zwift WANTS players without steering to have a natural disadvantage - otherwise people would not buy the controllers. Some of the most obvious gaps may be reduced, but don't expect it to go away :-) - Had Zwift not introduced braking, maybe the ergonomics of the controllers would have been ok, but when I occationally try to use steering it is super fiddly and I often brake by accident. (I have also experienced that one of my controllers gets stuck constantly turning no matter what I do). Hopefully, Zwift will rethink the ergonomics and introduce better controllers.

This explains the snaking and splitting peleton with pacers. Lol. I thought it was me getting weaker.

Can u buy controllers in Australia yet?

I haven't looked at the forums, I guess I should , but this answers my nagging question of the last 3 weeks or so.... did they F*(k with pack dynamics again?? It's so bad now. There's also a bit of sticky draft back.

I use the steering. On a course like RGV with the intestins, a breakaway can be successful using steering. Also, on the finish for Tempus Fugit, I've been beat at the line because the winner had steering and took the final right-hand turn on the inside. Definitely have been able ro use it attacking as a team on a ZRacing event. Everyone went wide left, and sprinted up the punchy climb, abd no one was able to follow our wheels. There are definite ways to use it beneficially.

Great T-shirt. 😅

I’ve been not liking the current feel.

Thanks Ben, this is really helpful insight in to how Zwift works. Can't wait to not follow any of it in my next race!

Fantastic video.

This is good to know! I feel like you could waste a lot of watts in a race trying to move up to the front before a climb or the end sprint or something. This would be even more interesting with Sauce for zwift showing the draft numbers. Thanks for posting.

In a race of 20-30 riders I found the pack was snaking more over the road. Front riders attacking with steering, riders behind slowly moving to that draft with a delayed reaction throughout the pack & at some spots it broke because the draft was gone. Steering helps to anticipate this effect

Im finding it kicking me out into the wind in the pack, and backing off does not put me back in the pack. it can be frustrating. I think its a conspiracy to make everyone buy zwift controllers

Thanks for making this test. It looks like there is still a bit of work to be done to make sure that Auto-Steering works as well as in MyWhoosh but it's great to see that Zwift is FINALLY addressing my (and many others) main complaint with Zwift Play which is that in it's current form it is pay-2-win. Except for the ability to move non-steerers out of your draft I'd say that all other functionality of the Zwift play are simply quality of life improvements.

Uhhhh I guess I need Zwift play controllers 🤣🤣

Oof, that sluggish steering... I purposefully multi-tap to slowly move across when targeting the apex of a corner, with the swift steering for attacks/bridging/hairpins/pulling off the front... but being that slow when holding the steering down will drive me insane. I get the blocking, I think that's a nice feature, as annoying as it is ;-) But that slow movement, awful! The other thing with what was possibly PD5.0 was that it was more lane-like than blob-like (e.g. how MyWhoosh currently works), and riders suddenly migrating hard left/right into separate lanes. But I didn't see that here?

Guru status confirmed

Great video, thanks for all the info.

Really struggling with the watt wasting window being back in the big groups. Big surges needed to overtake those falling off the pack or just in the way. According to sauce data i'm no longer efficient vs other riders in a group, previously I could be. Additionally, as you displayed... when I actually fight to break that sticky draft, when you are at the front of the pack it is easy to sneak away with no extra effort. I'm hating it, and I feel like riders lighter than me would be experiencing a really difficult time.

loving the vids Ben 👍👍

Have you tried racing on TrainingPeaks virtual yet?

Given that having the fastest frames and wheels costs time, that actually costs money too... so I dunno, seems more economical than leveling up to those that have been on Zwift for many years... let's not forget the farcical suspension because of elevation farming for a Tron way back when... ;-)

I've almost never used steering in a race, almost every ladder race i've been in has had an agreement to turn it off. It has a weird perception from some that even when the steering is not used Zwift prioritises play users into the draft and knocks non-play users out...

I did a TT race last year soon after I got the zwift plays. The ITT was the Going Coastal route. 18.7 km. I steered on every corner and by the end I had ridden 700 meters less than my competitors. So over that short time and the twisty roads it really does add up!

Is that why I lose draft when drafting a steering racer... didn't know that

Don't we all pay for speed, one way or the other? When I first started Zwifting I was on my road bike on a wheel on drum smart trainer. I was getting crushed on the hills when my wheel would slip. So, I bought a direct drive trainer...instantly got faster for about a grand $$$. Then I took my $700 road bike off the trained and put my $3000 TT bike on it (I'm a triathlete). I got even faster, mostly because I went from a 170mm crank arm to a 165mm (now I can spin high cadence in my comfort zone). The TT bike geometry saves my quads so now I can take advantage of the larger big ring which went from 50 on the road bike to 53 on the TT. Max sprint power has gone from about 1300w to just shy of 1600w and now I'm considering putting a 55 on it. One of my surprising changes that greatly benefitted me cost me about $40! It was a new cassette. I changed out the standard one to a 11-25. That gave me a 16-tooth gear. That got rid of the jump from 15 to 17 on my old cassette. That was a game changer for me. It gave me more mid-range power while saving my legs. Now my end of race sprint is crazy!!! Oh, let's not ignore the computer. I started with a little minicomputer. It worked but graphics were crap. So, I moved to my little tablet, better graphics but still slow and recording was a nightmare. So, I bought a gaming laptop...wow, totally changed the experience and I'm sure probably made me faster. LOL. But no, I don't have Zwift Play...it's not made for TT bars. And I've adapted to racing people with them as long as I race with good fitness, I can overcome their advantage! Sorry for all the blabbing, you did a great job with your analysis!