The Plagiarism Behind Batman's First Story | UNCOVERED
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ค. 2024
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REUPLOAD. When artist Bob Kane and writer Bill Finger created Batman in 1939, they took inspiration from elsewhere... But did they take too much? REUPLOAD.
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#Batman #Comics #Mystery - บันเทิง
That photo is Robert Kanigher, the creator of Poison Ivy
Yup, I forgot that error and should've corrected it! Thank you
I love that song!! Poison Ivy!!
@@Uncovered_YT don't forget the oldest costumed super hero was "The Phantom" the ghost who walks , , as I recall he used Twin automatic pistols before any of them , , Phantom had developed a report with jungle animals and had a loyal wolf- dog named Devil , , , Phantom wears a purple 🟣 full bodysuit with a twin holster belt for his automatics , , he's the original costumed superhero , , Google the first issue of The Phantom and feel the better for it 😸👍👍
I have to admit, it's a little depressing to realize that Batman and the Joker both basically started off as plagiarism of other popular works, but at least it's safe to say that they took on a life very much their own over the years and are at this point decidedly original characters compared to those initial incarnations.
I'm a comic book writer-artist (independent and superhero variety), and Batman and the Joker are my favorite superhero and villain. But really, you seriously think that scary clown man had to be the most original idea in the world? And you're shocked that cartoonists, or really any commercial artists are thieves?
@@HeyAnnieMokAs a "professional" in your industry, youre shocked that someone outside your industry dosent know what you know?
@@glennross85 Well yes to be fair, as a professional comic book writer-artist with credits at DC Comics/Vertigo, Image, and Adventure Time Comics among many others, a little too much ego can be a common flaw among humans who make comics for money, like me.
But my thought was not that one needs specialized knowledge to have a little more imagination. The commonter was clinging onto the idea that Batman and the Joker are inherently "unique" ideas at this point in his story. And I feel like it's obvious to any little child on the street that they are simply not. It's like, hey, they are in the end corporate-owned characters so you can't "be in their corner" like they're a real person. These imaginary characters should be in your corner. That's the best they can do. But that's all they can do. 🌲🌳🌴🎄
@@HeyAnnieMok the writing sample you've provided here makes me shudder that you're considered a "professional"
@@360.Tapestry Editors don't judge my work based off of TH-cam comments. Happy holidays
The Shadow deserves much more deserved loved!
I've heard that Bill Finger once said the very first Batman story wasn't even meant for publication, that it was basically a concept pitch given to the publisher to show them what Batman would be like, but either they or Bob Kane decided to just print it as is.
That absolutely tracks
Yeah I could see them doing that studios tend to be pretty stupid like that
That's fascinating. And makes a lot of sense!
Bob Kane ordered it to be printed as is, apparently
@@speedracer2008 go figure. May that SoB rot in his grave.
The Shadow on radio is awesome entertainment, actually a lot of old radio is great listening.
The shadow was so popular they knew what they were doing with the tracing I'm glad some people know how plagiarized Batman is
Knowing what Bob Kane did to take full credit for creating Batman, I'm not surprised he stole from other people too.
There was also a pulp hero called The Bat. Green Hornet, much later, borrowed the same plot about 10 years later.
I think you mean The Black Bat.
"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" has always been complete nonsense. Imitation is "I like this thing someone else did, so imma just use it for myself", and nothing else.
One thing doesn't exclude the other, i mean, even if they're stealing, they're still are trying to reproduce something they did like in the first place, thus admitting it's good.
I think you could say Batman was the Shadow for kids back then.
Bill boasting about ripping off Black Bats finned gauntlets, then later Joker and Joker Gas from the radio show, will always prove to me he was as much of thief as Kane. Im personally suspect they might have also ripped of The Spiders cowl/cloak, as he had a well received film a year or so before. He also swing around of spider threads during a time grapple lines weren't common
Good to see this one. I'd forgotten all about it but enjoyed it all over again.
I’ve been waiting to hear this “however” for a very long time.
Oh my, I was sure it’s 400k views, not 400 when I started watching. Very informative video with nice production, good job!
Just found your channel man, great video with excellent editing and presentation. Looking forward to future releases
4:19 Theres a story Walter told another writer about in the late 70s
Walter says he was in the studios of CBS during the broadcast, he helped Wells touch up the script right before it aired
Even Commissioner Gordon in that first story had his name cribbed from another pulp hero: James “Wildcat” (W.) Gordon.
Thanks for the info.
Just to clarify: using a pose for reference is not the same as plagiarism. Plagiarism would have been taking the illustration and passing it off as your own.
Dude, that's not what the video's about. You're responding to the misleading thumbnail that isn't referenced in the video itself.
@@hurgenflerg2133but he is right though 🤷♂️ you’re right the video itself doesn’t say that but the thumbnail says otherwise but that’s good ol clickbait for ya
@@mylesaustinleetaylor2000 the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. tell me i'm right, too!
You have to change your references significantly to avoid copyright infringement. If it's an obvious swipe, you could be in real trouble should the original author/artist choose to pursue it. That's not proper use of references.
The shadow wills!
great video
The 1990s animated series gave tribute to the shadow.
As batman's childhood t.v. show hero.
The Gray Ghost! Awesome episode.
A couple years ago, I stumbled onto the old The Shadow Radio Programs through my local library, and I gotta say they were cool in that old is new kind of way seeing the origins of classic tropes we know.
Fantastic video
I am nowhere near old enough to have heard Fibber McGee & Molly or The Shadow or even the Adventures of Chickenman when they were originally airing, but I did hear them in the 90s and 00s on some of my local AM stations such as WDGY (which as of 2022 still ran Chickenman).
Damn is your channel underrated. Considering the quality of editing and audio quality you should have way more subscribers.
I thought I just stumbled onto a random mid-sized creator in the comictube niche, but seems not.
Criminally underwatched channel, especially compared to some of the pig slop that is the majority of TH-cam.
the Greatest Era of Batman, is the Original DCAU Era of Batman TAS. Kevin Created the Perfect Batman we All want and Need!
There was hidden acknowledgment in the first Batman story … did you not see all those - _SHADOWS?_
There's only five jokes and millions of variations of them.
I’m a old time radio aficionado and this is the same plot as a mystery program, although I don’t recall what show it was on. It was common for radio scripts to be reused for different shows, in a similar way to what you are describing. Maybe this practice was common and somewhat accepted
The original Batman is basically The Shadow with the character's names changed, wearing the look of The Phantom. Batman did become mostly it's own thing later on but the DNA of earlier pulp and comic heroes is still there. Most of the fans don't know or refuse to accept that fact, while DC deflects by pointing to a Zorro movie that wasn't released until after Detective Comics 27.
Most people also don't realize that the reason why Batman stopped using guns is because DC told Bob and Bill to stop plagiarizing The Shadow. So then the no kill rule was created for Batman. To this day people still believe the lie that it was created for moral reasons. Which isn't true at all.
I haven't seen u on TH-cam in years Robin since the old days of TH-cam wow I didn't know u were still active
Hey ho! Still here, but not as active as I used to be in my old age 😄
You FORGOT to mention that the Commissioner in the movie is the Shadow's uncle!!
As for BK, I think it mainly points to either lazy illustrations or that he really was unoriginal in skill. The fact that so many shots mirror other illustrations and panels, which isn't really plagiarism because it is new art (similar with taking a famous painting but then putting John Wayne, James Dean, and company and putting in them in place of the other people), perhaps shows he thought there was a time crunch and wanted to get it done or he just constantly was in the habit of "borrowing" other's ideas and passing it off as his own. BF on the other hand, this one is slightly more interesting to consider, as when one looks into his character and work, he IS the main forefather of the Batman. His work mainly compiles his love for classics, pulp, and old cinema all into one character and story and reinvents what was old into new. So how much was Batman #1 his idea to borrow from Shadow versus Bob's is unknown. If Bob left entirely the story writing to BF then he clearly was intentional and knowledgeable on what he was doing. We know BK was looking at the illustrations because he copied the backgrounds. BF could have felt it was a really good story to lift or BK could have just told him that that is the story they needed to replicate. So if this was all BF's idea, borrow the story, then I think slightly this assessment needs to be further examined because his character seems to be in contrast to Kane's character. But if BK just told him what to do, then BK clearly was just wanting to nab the story and plaster his BAT-MAN on top of it. BF, on the other hand, truly was doing something artistic with the character and so if it was his idea (and he doesn't appear to "borrow" other pulp plots again- something to investigated), and he, again, doesn't seem to be the kind of person to just "steal" another's work, because to some degree the same thing would happen to him, then the motivation must have been to pay tribute, a nod that tells us that the Shadow did have a heavy influence on BF's ideas.
Well, I realized that the earliest Batman stories were very pulpish, but I didn't realize just how close to the pulps they actually were! But Batman quickly changed in this early period, foregoing the use of guns, adding a sidekick in Robin, and developing other supporting characters and paraphernalia to become the character we know now.
Love it when the video creator always says "...I'll put a link in the description below." and all the links below are self promotion.
Yeah, the original link is dead so I removed it. I'll update it with the correct one when I can find it.
9:04 all due respect, but if you're calling plagiarism for "the shape of the chimney" you may as well point out the shapes of the buildings, cars, and guns.
0:01 - 0:23 Have you seen "Person of Interest" from Jonathan Nolan (Christopher's brother & co-writer of the Dark Knight movies), it world-builds better than Weyland-Yutani.
@7:10 First appearance of Man.
Great video! He may have had some… rocky origins, but Batman is THE greatest hero to ever exist!
As if these guys knew Batman was going to be big hit lol. They probably wrote this like anything else back then when copyrights were lenient. They prob just needed to whip something up for the comic to sell, not thinking their character would become an icon.
I am mostly a marvel fan but this was very interesting to hear! Thank you!!
Oh then just WAIT 'til you hear what Stan Lee stole
Man stole his whole-ass career from Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko
Oh, and art! Oh, he and Marvel Comics did love to steal creators' artwork for decades, those scramps 🥲
@@HeyAnnieMoklol he's up for a threat
Kane ripped a lot of people off
Lmao how did they get away with literally stealing the Joker in his entirety from the Shadow? That is insane.
the amount of plagiarism and forgotten names in the creation af all that suerhero comic industry in america, it say something, love comics but not a fan of dresed superheros and all that monopoly, but as i see, batman reinvent in the 80s thanks to diverse authors in scripts and draw style, in that decade and burton films years later, and i love al lot of the batman short stories around these years.
"...there is no new thing under the sun." ECCLESIASTES 1:9
A Batman for everyone hey? Is there one where Batman is dead and will never come back again? Then not one for everyone. ;)
Your place is not among us.
Comic book (many varieties) writer-artist here. For context, Batman is my favorite superhero comic book character. The comments here? "Fascinating, Captain." A few here actually talk about the Shadow and the art thievery -- the narrative point of the entire episode. However, more comments than not just say "Batman's great," or worse, annoyingly attempting to amateur litigate this artistic theft which has just been proved guilty beyond any shadow (of a bat) of a doubt.
...Which leads me to question, so none of y'all ever read Ernest Hemingway? "Kill your darlings"? Because the Batman does not need defending!!! Batman is not even a real person!!!! This is what gets me about how people defend corporate characters like this. Ay.
I was disappointed that the comparison used in the thumbnail was not covered in the video. It looked like a much clearer example of tracing than any examples in the video.
For example, the chimney comparison is really no big deal. That's a real style of chimney that was common on city buildings at the time. Even if one artist was doing it because he saw another artist do it, it would be about the same as having the same model of car in two different comics.
You're missing the forest for the trees, maybe you're choosing to, I don't know you. Stealing is more about tracing. It's about stealing ideas and contexts. Which is why when they stole the plot from another writer and artist straight up, that's why it gets more damning when you get to all the smaller granular art thefts like the ones you point out.
@@HeyAnnieMokI'm not missing anything. The thumbnail had something very interesting in it, and he didn't talk about that.
I'm not defending Bob Kane in any way. I'm just saying that the video spent time on a minor issue but didn't talk about the thing that was in the thumbnail.
@@Jason_Bryant I suppose I misunderstood you then, my apologies. Happy holidays
@@HeyAnnieMok Happy holidays!
Iiked him better when he was still the Shadow.
Got news for you all artist do this
Bob Kane Created the Idea, and
Bill Finger Re;Define the Batman.
Plus, Credit the Joker to Jerry Robinson to give idea from the Play Card!
Not plagiarism 👎 👎 👎
To me that’s not plagiarism, just inspiration
So, Batman is the Oreo of comics. I find that neat.