3:29 Here's the goal! I'm hoping enough people view and comment on this video that these companies realize the need to upgrade the DC output on these power stations! We need more POWA! Do you agree? Why?
Maybe they are thinking of Safety when it comes to charging a solar Generator with more than 10 amps? I say at least have an option to charge with more than 10 amps. I like the idea that Pecron has, that would be the way to go.
It is frustrating to be so limited. I basically only use 12 volt appliances and occasionally use the inverter. I have a 12 volt adapter for my CPAP. I believe it will run it with my Bluetti AC180. I guess I better try it; doh! If the companies don’t change the 12 volt output then we might as well go back to our power stations that are built with components. It’s not that hard to build one, it’s just bulkier than the sleek Chinese form.
@@mannyfragoza9652Jason is talking about how many amps you can pull out not put in. But I do believe that you have a valid point on the charge input, it seems rather low.
I agree. Spend more money on upgrading the 12 volt output. It doesn't make sense to wire (6) 5-15 receptacles in parallel on a 1200 watt inverter. I can easily plug in a $10 power strip if I need more receptacles.
I need more DC power, that’s why I just bought my first Pecron 3 months ago. 30amp XT60 is awesome. I wouldn’t even consider my next power station if it doesn’t have MORE DC out puts!!!! Give it or we will move on to others that will!!!!❤
You make some great points Jason! We have to use two Bluetti power stations to run two 12v fridges, one as a freezer, recharging them with solar. It’s great to have ice cream, while camping! It’ll be interesting to see what companies come up with in the future!
This video is right on the money Jason! The Bluetti AC200 Max had a high DC output. Then future models it disappeared. I never understood that. I love the upgrades that the AC200L gave me... But we should had a 20 or 30 amp 12v output.
It is frustrating that the higher DC output went away, we are all hoping it returns! Bluetti is doing weird things... The new Elite 200 V2 didn't have high DC output (so much for being "Elite") and the new APEX 300 from CES this year had the DC power completely removed... why?
And lets talk about the new 60 volt solar inputs. Pretty much done with Bluetti over stupid moves they are making. AC200L X 2 B300 AC180 AC70 EB53 AC60 4X BOUGE RV 200 N TYPE PANELS
I agree completely, a 12 volt car socket alone just does not cut it anymore,,,, that 20amp XT60 on the Pecron as well as it's HEATED for when it dips below 32F is a gamechanger... the big guys should take a lesson from a company that is InTouch with real world applications and how we use these .. thank you for bringing this to light in this way ... great video !!!
Thanks Jason, as always you bring to the table a topic that is valuable and noteworthy. More DC availability needs to upgraded. As campers and off gridders we travel and live low key. We are DC kinda people. So having more DC watts available makes more sense then adding more 120v sockets.
From the price/performance/reliability aspect, this is why Pecron is emerging as a "True Innovative leader in the space". Love my Pecron products and I am sure the new E1000 will be no different. I do not camp much, so my needs are a bit different. But the point you make is valid, a 15-20 amp DC supply should be STD on these mid-sized units. Great content! Have a safe and prosperous New Year!
I agree, Jason. Thank you for highlighting this issue. My need for upgraded and more DC outputs would be for camping devices just as you demonstrated and talked about.
AGREED! I use my power station in a camper trailer - 12V is a necessity. Not just one port, we need multiple 12V ports! Also, cigarette lighter ports are kind of ridiculous and bulky - maybe one, but XT60 is the way to go.
I agree the cigarette lighter port is only there because so much 12v portable equipment has been grandfathered in. And 5.5 x 2.1mm barrel connectors are only rated up to 5 amps. But it definitely wouldn't hurt to have an APP or XT60 port. Whatever connector is used, it needs to be fused or current regulated based on the size of the battery in the power station) or within reason. The consumer can't be counted on to do the right thing. It has to be idiot proof. Also it probably has to have some type of electronics to limit the so called output port from someone just hooking solar panels onto it vs the regular charging port.........unless they are using their own external charge controller of course. All things are possible if they are willing to put the engineering design work or added cost into it.
@@Jasonoid Fair enough. It would also be nice if the voltage did not sag too much with whatever regulated circuit they are doing. I miss the slightly higher raw voltage (around 13vdc) that a LiFePO4 battery voltage provides. I don't have that many power stations and am speaking from experience on my Energizer/Powerwin unit.
@@Jasonoidturning off the circuit is a very rudimentary form of current regulation 😂. These stations could actually go one step further and dynamically manage the load to not reset
Completely agree with the need for high-output 12 volt DC ports. FYI, the Bluetti AC240 does have a 30-amp 12 volt output, although the cable to use it has to be purchased separately (~ $40). Being IP65 rated is useful for camping and outdoor use as well.
Yep, that unit is hugely over-priced and very heavy, good quality though. They could have put high DC output on the AC180 and the AC200L but they decided to not to. Even their new "Elite 200 V2" doesn't have high DC output.....?!? Why Bluetti!? Bluetti even removed the DC output on their new "APEX 300" unit entirely! They are going in the wrong direction IMO.
I bought a E1000 just for the higher 20 amp 12 volt outlet. My E3600 Pecron has a 30 amp 12 volt outlet using the XT60. I have several Bluetti products and they fall short for 12 volt outlets so that is why I have been switching to Pecron. Self heating battery on the E1000 is a nice added feature also.
So glad someone with more influence is bringing this up! Many of these power supplies are used in vans and campers, and yet they've limited the 12v so much. Please fight for our 5521 barrel plugs too. I complained to Anker about them removing the barrel plugs from newer products. And I told Bluetti and Ecoflow I would not buy any 'battery without barrel plugs. I have them wired into all kinds of low wattage devices.
Yes please!!! I almost bought the EcoFlow Delta 3 plus.... and then I saw in your video it didn't have much DC power! Please EcoFlow, we need at least 180 watts on your small and medium units too!
The video you made with your father in law is one of my favorites. The video showing his DIY power stations with DC Anderson Powerpoles. A DIY video creating a similar setup would be great for us who have limited knowledge how build one correctly. Thanks again for all your hard work making these videos. You’re one of the best on TH-cam.
Many new DC devices on the market, cooking and lighting. Other than multiple smaller power stations, you have no way to charge multiple devices simultaneously. Thanks Jason for helping❤
I agree that the 12VDC car socket is a legacy item. It was useful when a lot of people used 12V appliances, or other things related to automotive stuff. It was even useful for a USB outputs at one time, but now USB outputs are included on stations as a given. Personally I would like to see XT60 or Anderson Power Pole connector replace the barrel socket, as they have the most versatility. As fr as 12VDC appliances, I don't have any. I used to be a backpacker where power isn't a thing, and graduated to a truck camper, which has both 12V and 120V built in via batteries and a propane generator. If I need to take my CPAP camping, I plug it in and let that system do the work. I can understand people need higher output when car camping, and applaud those companies like Pecron that are giving the market better options.
My whole approach to the DC output is that you can run your devices much more efficiently. The DC output uses very little background power from the battery, while the AC inverter will eat though 25% of your battery overnight on it's own. A very big difference!
I can't be the only person using 12V devices during hurricane season every year. Sometimes we go through 2 or more storm cycles a year. It's like camping out. And having only one DC receptacle at mealtime adds more stress to an already stressful situation. The AC receptacles are being used for other important issues. More than one DC port is an absolute necessity. Thank you, Jason, for attempting to make the companies aware of the need for more DC ports on their stations.
Oh yes definitely higher A on the DC 12V would be amazing. I’ve had my diesel heater unable to start up too many times and the DC -> AC conversion to run overnight is just simply extremely inefficient, let’s change this!!
You called it by the correct name once, but the "12 volt socket" is a remnant from the 1950s, when everyone smoked. Vehicle manufacturers developed a cheap yet functional way to make lighting cigarettes easier. This "port" was never intended (initially) to function as a power source for 12 volt accessories and (as you pointed out) does a very poor job. Now, 70 years later, it's time to move on and use a connector specifically designed to deliver low voltage power. It's the wrong kind of connector because it's not a connector, it's half of a cigarette lighter assembly. This "connector is not safe or particularly suited as a power delivery port. I need 24 amps at 13.8 volts to operate ham radio equipment in the field. The standard DC connector for the amateur radio community is the Anderson Powerpole. A 30 amp (360 Watts) Anderson Powerpole 12 volt output would be a welcome addition. Secondly, my Chinese Diesel Heater requires about 15 amps at 12 volts (about 180 Watts) to operate the glow plug during startup. A 10 amp limit on the 12 volt outputs negates the possibility of using a portable power station for one of its most basic functions.
I wouldn’t have cared so much about the dc output until I began discovering and exploring the appliances that are out there, and some of them are amazing and accomplish cooking heating and refrigeration with barely 100w so that’s extremely valuable. The unsung heroes are those appliances though, so I think they need to get more prime time and advance and find their way out of vans and more into homes as they improve and consume as little as possible for what they accomplish.
I've been wondering for a while how much longer the old "cigarette lighter" outlet will last. Like you mention, there's so many better options. Diesel heaters commonly require up to 15 amps and these power stations should be able to provide that. Also, there are known issues with 12v plugs coming undone due to vibrations like you experience when driving/off-roading. Not only a bump in available power, but a more secure connection would be greatly appreciated.
One of the reasons I recently purchased a Oupes Mega 2 was that it comes with a 30 amp DC Anderson port. I plan to use that port at my off grid cabin and on a future RV.
Excellent presentation. Thank you. You and I have both been preaching this for the past couple of years. Precron really seems to be the leader for the van/truck/car camping crowd that will be needing solid 12v output options. They lead with not only various connectors - 5521, 5525, XT60 - but with amperage and some with even 12v and 24v outputs on the same unit. I love the 24v 5525 port on my Pecron E300 as it can power most fridges and even a Starlink Mini. Never realized how useful the 24v output would be until I started using it, especially since it can deliver twice the amps over the same gauge wire and many/most 12v devices also supporting 24v. I will not buy any new unit that is just a big heavy inverter/phone charger, which is what the Bluetti's/Jackery's have become, with poor 12v output options.
Definitely need at least 20 amps of 12V DC. When we travel we have a 12V cooler, a CPAP, a 12V air compressor that needs 15amps, and sometimes a few other gadgets. The AC plugs are great but more 12V capability is needed for sure.
Totally agree. When I off-road, I rarely have any 120v ac devices with me. Like you, my fridge is 12v, my lights are 12v, my air pump is 12v. They could junk all but 1 or 2 AC port and load up with multiple 12v sockets. I really prefer the XT60 for the solid connection. I have a Bluetti EB3A and an Ecoflow River 2. They are small, light and fit well in my truck with all my gear.
I agree.. Living in a Motorhome.. That's why I got the Dabbsson 2300 as it has got a 35 amp DC outlet with an anderson, as I conected it direct to my fuse box and can now run the whole van off the power bank, I conected a 400watt solar panel to the Dabbsson power bank and very rare have to charge it from AC.. Great video saying what we all have been asking for for years...
I agree! I love the 12v 25a plug on my older bluetti ac200p. Run my campervan off that. Don't understand why the newer powerstations are moving away from that 🤔
The AC240P has a 30A 12V output. But it's one of the rare ones that has one. The old Goalzeroes also had one but they still used Lithium Ion batteries.
I agree but there should be a dedicated monster DC option for cabins and boats. Big enough for external inverters and breaker boxes. But portable so they don't need to be left behind when not using them at location.
That would be a cool option! Right now the EcoFlow DPU is the only option that has both a large AC inverter and decent DC ouput (30 amps @ 12v, good for about 400 watts).
OMYGOD Jason you are my hero! THANK YOU for making this IMPORTANT VIDEO!!!! I have been screaming nonstop about more DC output for a couple of years now, and I have refused to upgrade to anything that won't give me that output. Full stop. I need to run all those items you mentioned as well as a CPAP. DC power is SO much more efficient! In fact, I think any PPS needs only 2 AC outlets max. Get a power strip if you need more than that. There is ZERO reason why we can't demand as consumers for a PPS that can give us 30 amps or more DC. Get a clue, manufacturers!
EXACTLY!!! Well done! I'm with you! The 12V cig socket is woefully inadequate and has been for years on these powerstations. I have voted with my wallet by NOT buying any of these newer units at all. I was one of the original AC50S kickstarters and the first thing I did was take it apart and replace the cig lighter socket with an XT60 so I could at least supply my van a wiggle free solid connection for my devices (fan, fridge, diesel heater). Ironically inside the AC50S they use an XT60 to connect the cig lighter to the BMS. 😂 Since then I have refused to buy another power station from them because they have not upgraded from using the woeful cig lighter in 95% of their power stations (save one high end behemoth they since discontinued).
@@RustyMisterTwo Well, I chose an actual 2kW diesel heater. The larger 5kw ones (who run in a "2kw" mode) are known to require more than 10A, but the authentic smaller 2kW heaters work within the 10A limit. :)
Totally agree. I'm currently midway through a DIY power station build using a 12v 230ah battery to supplement my Ecoflow Delta 2 and expand capacity while on camping trips. I was originally planning on including a number of USB charging ports and a 2000w PSW inverter but realized I already have adequate inverter power for the AC appliances I run and enough USB on the D2 as well. So, I ditched those ideas on the DIY build and opted instead for a single USB port and 4 standard 12vdc socket outlets. I will run DC fans, an electric throw, a small dual zone fridge/freezer, from those additional 12v sockets and can always insert the latest USB technology port from charging into the remaining socket.
I tested those SDC ports in my Power 1000 video. They have adjustable output voltage. It seems anywhere between 12v all the way up to 58v with certain dongles connected.
Spot on Jason. I purchased a Bluetti 200max and a 230 based on your excellent review. As you know, this unit has the 12v plug-in at 10amps, AND has the aviation plug at 30, along with the two 10amp 5521 plugs…. When this unit bleeds out and can only operate at 80% I’ll continue to use it and not upgrade precisely due to the newer units lack of DC options- in my opinion, the “newer” units are simply not as usable. Thanks for looking out for us Jason, much appreciated.
100% agree. A couple years ago I built my own battery box with 3 36ah batteries in parallel, with 2 12v cigarette outlets with a 50a fuse on each (and heavier gauge wire). 25a fuses would still be plenty (and probably safer, lol) for my fridge, diesel heater, blanket, vacuum, fans, and other 12v devices. Video of the battery box on my channel. :)
What choices do I have for a smaller (under 2,000W) 24V output sogen? My 70W, 24V Jartoo electric blanket just arrived today and I really want to be able to use it when camping.
Agreed, a 20, or 30 amp DC port for trickle charging my 24 volt liFePO4 deep cycle batteries would be awesome especially after the power station is completely full and the pass through energy from solar panels aren't doing anything else.
I have been holding off buying a new unit because of lack of DC outputs. I have continued to use the three power stations I have when we camp and for emergency backup. Space really matters in a camper. I think the first of the major brands to tackle this in the 1000ish Watt hour area will own the market. The bigger units that have enough DC outputs aren’t portable enough for one person to lift in and out of a camper on a regular basis and they take up too much space. I want to be able to put my power station in the camper in an out of the way spot, and plug in everything needed and leave it due to the confined spaces. When there aren’t enough ports that have enough power, it is super inconvenient and lackluster. I think if they can tackle this, it will really make for lots of new and happy customers. Most people thinking of the 1000-2000 Watt hour units already have smaller units and really understand their needs. Hopefully we will start getting more DC outputs and the XT60 and Anderson connectors at a minimum. Thank you for leading the charge! - Katy
Finally someone has said it. I'm a ham radio operator and would love to use these power stations for my radios but it is difficult when they only include one 12 volt accessory socket.
I absolutely agree. The 12V cigar lighter outlet is outdated and IMHO, unsafe for large current loads. The connection is totally dependant on a cheap little spring-loaded positive connector that wants to pop out on it's own. Your recommended alternatives are the right idea, although I prefer the XT60 myself. Thanks for the great video.
I absolutely agree. I'd very much like to have more DC power available, because the one thing Id like more of is options. 3x 20A XT60s would be perfect, and would likely take up about the same panel real estate as a 10A cigarette lighter socket. Of course this extra capacity would only work when appliance manufacturers start putting beefer inputs on the devices they make, but who better to lead the change than the people making the devices that supply the power.
My Bluetti AC200Max has a 12v/30a DC RV output. But they removed it for the successor model AC200L. While I haven't used it yet, I'm glad the option is there.
I watched all of your videos trying to find a power station that would work for my truck camper. I have 4-5 DC loads that I need to power and no AC. It seems all of the major companies are prioritizing AC inverter power for the backup home use. I ended up building my own power station with the new LiTime 100ah smart mini in an Apache case. I have 2 20amp 12v sockets, 2 usb-a and 2 usb-c, and 4 20 amp xt60. I now can run fridge, exhaust fan, lighting, and charge all of my basic tech without the unnecessary AC. I also saved space in my truck with a smaller unit. These companies should absolutely invest in the DC heavy market of camping and overlanding.
So I finally got rid of my EB55, was a poor power station, loud fan noise even when low wattage input, never charged above 99watts even though I have 175w solar panel. Swapped for Ecoflow River 2 max. Its perfect, instantly hit 174w on the sun, fan noise is 2 - 3x less and doesn't turn on all the time, only when excess watts and high temps. Your videos and replies helped a lot.
Your point is valid (I wouldn't expect otherwise). Inflators and diesel heaters are two common items that typically need 150W or more, especially when starting up. What if you have two kids with 12V heated blankets? Multiple outlets are needed. Vendors can either build products that meet these needs, or people will have to find DIY solutions.
We absolutely need the higher output dc alternative outputs. It's pretty shortsighted on the manufacturer's part that we don't. Even worse, Bluetti releases a power station that has a 48v dc output and it turns out to be an underhanded money grab to sell another $250.00 device to be able to use it. If they would remove the greedy protocol locking the 48v output it could be a game changer and highly innovative on their part but that's not likely. Thanks for trying to bring attention to this and create more awareness!
I agree with you 100% about dedicated higher amperage/voltage d.c. output ports. I’m an amateur radio operator and I often use my portable power stations for emergency communications. The standard d.c power ports are not sufficient to operate most radio transceivers. We have to plug in a power supply to the a.c. ports and then convert the energy back to higher amperage d.c. which is inefficient. Hopefully the manufacturers will listen and add additional d.c. power ports. Thank you for addressing this issue!
Totally agree with a higher output DC option and that’s why I like the AC200Max as has the 30 amp output with the screw in plug I’m an Aussie and BLUETTI asked for feedback regarding their products and I pointed out that many Australians use their power stations to power Ute canopies. Having an Anderson or XT60 is a preference to many as we use this as a preferred connection not only due to being higher rated but it is way more resistant to vibration in 4WD situations or as you guys call it overlanding Can I add that a mounting cradle would be good addition to the range Redarc do a unit called a GO Block that is restricted to DC that power station manufacturers could take as an example of a more versatile solution for users that want a semi permanent solution They finally listened with giving us the charger 1 for vehicle charging so hopefully they listen to passionate people like yourself in improving their products usability
Hmmm, it does seem the smaller units have more DC out. One way I have worked around this is using USB c trigger modules. I always get power stations that have xt60 out.
Yeeeeeess and even in the “big boys” I gotta think about a Delta Pro 3 and the reason is simple: I’m redoing my RV electrical system and want the modularity of a few of these inside vs a whole bunch of components all over. But that Pecron… 👀
Using a Delta 2 for powering my RV. Have been trying to find a efficient way to charge the deep cycle battery with no luck.. if I want to use more than about 3 A I need to use AC power to do it which is highly inefficient. It doesn’t even look like outside of the hobby community. You can get a DC to DC battery maintainer with a low enough amp draw to be usable. So even if you’re OK with limiting to 3 A no one even makes a product that will do it. Aside from the alternator chargers, which are very expensive and overkill for what I need. I just need to keep the battery topped up and run the 12 V lighting..
Good video and comment exchange. Things I would recommend is 4 x 120V 20A. Plugs. Do away with USB-A plugs (everything is going to USB-C). The USB-C outlets should be a minimum of 100W. Remove the 12V car barrel (old school) and replace with more modern plugs like the XT60. I have electronics that can operate from 12 to 48V, so would like to have outlets that can adjust output in that range.
Agree. They should follow pecron and put XT60. 20A from XT60 seems awesome. As you said, you have 1500Wh unit which cant power diesel heater alone. I tried few days ago using Allpowers R600 to power diesel heater and it took 3 times to run it (when its heated up, then it draws less current so it can run). Also here is a little trick to run diesel heater: put it on lowest setting when it is heating up. At least that helped me to run it.
What if you wanted to run a 12v fridge at the same time? No way! It's hit's or miss with diesel heaters but if you want to run two things, no chance! The best thing would be to have enough power to not even have to think about running a diesel heater and a fridge at the same time.
@Jasonoid Of course, I totally agree with you. Just said what can you try, in case of emergency. It is stupid to have so much power stored and only way to get it out is via AC socket (with alot of energy loss). Yea, we definitely need alot more amps on DC.
While I agree to a certain extent, there will be downsides. the issue is that most of this systems aren't 12v internally. They have to convert their voltage down to 12v. The bigger the DC to DC converter the larger it's stand by consumption will be. For many of us, low standby consumption is super important. Things like fridges that require constant power but use very little wattage over all. It wouldn't be useful if they start using huge DC to DC converters that have a large stand by consumption, make the units bigger, and cost more. Generally the large DC to DC converters also have worse efficiency at lower wattages. 12v it's pretty crappy to run big things, requires pretty big wires to be efficient. Cigarette lighter ports were never meant to be used for high power devices. They absolutely should have been replaced a long time ago. I personally think they should replace them with XT60, with some sort of lock. I'm not a fan of the current XT60 lock, maybe add thread in collars like the old monitor cables had.
More DC power options please. That has been my number one must have, if I purchase another power station. If I can't find what I want, I'll just assemble it myself. While you're at it, you may as well add built in DC to DC Alternator charging.
Well...I already purchased the E1000LFP and the expansion battery. It really hits a sweet spot of power and portability in my book. The diesel heater is the main thing that I have that tests the limits of the standard car plug. I do have some DC lights that I use at times too.
@@Jasonoid Well...I started doing some testing, but then we decided to get all snowy, icy and freezing on the east coast. It has been charged up and ready to work in case of a power outage since then. Now that we are finally coming out of that weather, I hope to test it more. I like it so far and the idle draw on AC was pretty reasonable at close to 1% per hour.
Absolutely agree Jason. I would love to see 2 12V connectors that support 20 amps. Many batteries have enough AC ports but they can do away with an AC port if they need more space for 2 12V connectors. Support to run simultaneous 12V lights, fans, fridges…
The connector itself matters greatly in handling greater amps. Because poor connections result in high resistance (and therefore high heat), the standard 12v socket may be poorly designed for high amp loads. And the quality of many 12vdc cigarette style sockets if of poor quality in production and then they don't hold up well after many plug/unplug cycles. XT60 connectors are of generally higher quality and fit, as well as Anderson style.
YES! I have several small 12v appliances and a 12v heated blanket. I would greatly benefit from multiple 12v outlets. In fact I would absolutely love SEVERAL higher watt outlets and USB connections without ANY AC outlets. Thanks
I'd love a higher power 12v port. The problem is the internal battery is not (usually) 12v but much higher. That means they need a DC:DC converter to drop the voltage down to provide the 12v. I've found the 10 amp buck converters are 1/3 or less the price of the 20amp units. I've pretty much decided if I need more than 10a at 12v, and nominal 12v LiFePO4 battery voltage is okay (typically over 13v) then I just use a LiFePO4 battery. Several companies make little boxes you can attach to a LiFePO4 battery to provide a lighter outlet, some USB outlets, and usually Anderson SB50 connections. I have two from Licitti and ordered two more. Also readily available are battery boxes with similar functionality built in. I find the only thing missing is the nicely integrated package of a power station. The flexibility of more closely matching my needs compensates for that in many of my use cases.
I feel like dropping voltage is more efficient than boosting voltage. The power stations that I have tested with higher DC ouputs (20 to 30 amps) seem to work well with a 48v battery and putting out 12v. I don't think we need quite that much power on all these units, I'd be content seeing at least 180 watts via an XT60 on small / medium power stations.
I do the same. I just have an random car battery that my diesel heater is connected to. We don't live in the van, just weekend trips and it lasts a couple of days.
Absolutely agree with greater 12 (actually 12.8) volt DC output. My use - amateur radio. My solution, 100 AH LiFePO4 12.8 volt batteries (which I also use as INPUT to the power stations to extend their USB and/or AC outputs - rather than much more expensive expansion batteries). If the power station had better 12V output, I would look to them as my total field power solution rather than separate 12 volt batteries.
I want this...because you guys want it!! Next up.....get rid of these 60v power stations. Pecron does so many things right. Salute to them!! They have really improved since they first hit the scene with external charge controllers and such.
Right on the money Jason. I agree wholeheartedly. Get something done or let's all go pecron. I love their 3600 and fortunately it went down in price by 200 from Christmas. I don't need another one but for the price I am thinking about it.
I don't think car charger plugs can handle that high a wattage without melting, but I love what Dr. Prepare did with the new power module. They now have Anderson out instead of the socket and give you an Anderson to car charger port if that's what you want, but you can also go with an Anderson to other adapter cable such as XT60. I also wish the makers would keep the 5521 barrel outputs. Thanks for the video, Jasonoid.
Totally agree, they need to focus on supporting multiple devices running on 12 volts. If they don't want to take up the space to add multiple ports to the power station itself, they could have a single high-amp connector that breaks out to an external 12 volt distribution panel
If the battery internally is 12 volt lifepo4, it would also be nice if the DC output isn't regulated. Regulating the output is unnecessary for 12 volt lifepo4 because the usable voltage range is already accepted by most 12 volt appliances, so we're wasting power by regulating the output.
I have a Lion Energy Safari with a 25amp Anderson plug, I connect it to a Blue Sea dc fuse box ans set up a few dc items in my Van when using it for traveling, Saves me having to set up a permanent system and much less expensive. Benn doing this for years
I would like to see more output for a 12v option . I have been wanting t upgrade my power system in my van to a larger solar generator but held off for years because I would need more DC inputs to run most of items in my van . Max Air fan , lighting , fridge , heater , exhaust fan and so on .
I was thinking the same thing with my Delta 3 Plus. Ended up just buying a 100ah lithium battery with bluetooth and it is essentially the same thing. Shouldnt need 2 different batteries though. They also need a better way to plug a 12v lithium battery into the Delta 3 Plus to charge it faster than that slow 12v jack. I know I can tap into the solar inputs but that is also slow at 15 amps when my 100ah 12v lithium has a 100amp BMS. Let me have 20 or 30 amps!
Absolutely agree, Jason! I would use my EF Delta 3+ so much more if it had more DC output. I run many 12V devices when camping including a fridge, multiple lights, water pump, heated blanket, heater, etc. Even with my Pecron E2000LFP that has 3x 12V outputs, I have to swap devices to use. Having a 20-30A 12V output would solve much if that, but just a single cigarette 12V out is even worse, hence why the D3+ is rarely in my vehicle. These mid-size 1kWh to 2kWh power stations are perfectly sized for camping, but most range from somewhat to severely limited in their DC output support.
Totally. Some bigger units do have 12v 30a dc out, even some external batteries (Pecron for one). Also if possible trying to optimize the DC consumption part so if one can manage without using the AC one would save some power from the inverter. Some units have more DC consumption than the AC section.
Most units I have tested the AC inverters use much more background power draw (1 to 2 percent of the battery capacity per hour while on). The DC output typically uses 0.2 to 0.5 percent per hour.
@@Jasonoid Yes thanks. I meant not when idle but when using all the battery the efficiency many times was very similar or even less with the DC in some cases (for example 85% efficiency using AC and around the same with DC instead of being much higher with DC).
I totally agree with you Jay but I will say my delta3 plus does run my vevor 8k diesel heater plugged into 12v socket . I was surprised but I also ran it on my bluetti ac180. I must admit Pecron always goes the extra mile with its great products . I have the e600 and e 300 love them both . Take care Jay love your channel.
My diesel heater fails to start up on my Delta 3 Plus. Some of the brand new diesel heater pulls slightly less power though. You'd still have an issue powering multiple loads at the same time. Throw a 12v fan on their at the same time as your diesel heater and it would fail.
OK, I will join you in this FINE endeavor. 12 VDC output IS A LEGITIMATE NEED. XT60 30A would be worthwhile for my use. Adaptability is critical for new applications as well. Both me and my wife are sleep apnea patients on CPAP which we run on backup when grid power frequently fails & for camping. Also can run my portable fridge!
Yes! I need more 12v to run my cabin, which is all 12v lighting and diesel heater, along with usb connections via marine panels. I use a 12v 30amp power supply connected to the 120v AC on the Ecoflow to achieve this. The diesel heater alone needs more than 10 amps on startup. I think the problem is that internal battery is 48 to 52 volts, so there's additional circuitry to get the 12v.
I have an EcoFlow Delta 2 Max in my Runaway Rouser. My experience is the cigarette plug jiggles loose when traveling and I have to push the cord back in the outlet to begin using my 12v devices. An XT60 plug would be a welcome addition.
Yes! I have been struggling with powering my diesel heater with ANY Model of Ecoflow. The glow plug just shuts the battery down. I am all in on EF. For camping. I own 2 delta max, the wave2, river pro, smart generator alternator charger and 840W of EF solar panels. I have converted my gen2 Starlink to run DC. Yet sadly I have to use the AC inverter on all of these devices to power the diesel heater. It sucks
Ecoflow only believes in putting high DC power in their larger units, I wish they would listen to my advice when I tell them tons of people want more than 10 amps DC power. Let's hope they listen!
3:29 Here's the goal! I'm hoping enough people view and comment on this video that these companies realize the need to upgrade the DC output on these power stations! We need more POWA! Do you agree? Why?
Maybe they are thinking of Safety when it comes to charging a solar Generator with more than 10 amps? I say at least have an option to charge with more than 10 amps. I like the idea that Pecron has, that would be the way to go.
Bro i bought the 200l not knowing about the dc output… now i have to deal with return… going to get the ac300 i guess
It is frustrating to be so limited. I basically only use 12 volt appliances and occasionally use the inverter. I have a 12 volt adapter for my CPAP. I believe it will run it with my Bluetti AC180. I guess I better try it; doh! If the companies don’t change the 12 volt output then we might as well go back to our power stations that are built with components. It’s not that hard to build one, it’s just bulkier than the sleek Chinese form.
@@mannyfragoza9652Jason is talking about how many amps you can pull out not put in. But I do believe that you have a valid point on the charge input, it seems rather low.
Thanks for bringing this subject up! Hopefully the manufacturers will listen up.
Absolutely agree! I also think 5 or 6 ac outlets are overkill, they should put more emphasis on dc output ac is easily handled by power strips etc...
I agree. Spend more money on upgrading the 12 volt output. It doesn't make sense to wire (6) 5-15 receptacles in parallel on a 1200 watt inverter. I can easily plug in a $10 power strip if I need more receptacles.
I'd be happy having a huge battery and one 500w socket. But I know that they are trying to market to everyone and that's why they do this.
I agree with you Jason 110%, this is a big requirement that the big vendors are ignoring!!!
Let's hope we can make a change!
I need more DC power, that’s why I just bought my first Pecron 3 months ago. 30amp XT60 is awesome. I wouldn’t even consider my next power station if it doesn’t have MORE DC out puts!!!! Give it or we will move on to others that will!!!!❤
I need more cowbell.. and DC.
You make some great points Jason!
We have to use two Bluetti power stations to run two 12v fridges, one as a freezer, recharging them with solar.
It’s great to have ice cream, while camping!
It’ll be interesting to see what companies come up with in the future!
It would be great to power all that off one power station!
This video is right on the money Jason! The Bluetti AC200 Max had a high DC output. Then future models it disappeared. I never understood that. I love the upgrades that the AC200L gave me... But we should had a 20 or 30 amp 12v output.
It is frustrating that the higher DC output went away, we are all hoping it returns! Bluetti is doing weird things... The new Elite 200 V2 didn't have high DC output (so much for being "Elite") and the new APEX 300 from CES this year had the DC power completely removed... why?
And lets talk about the new 60 volt solar inputs. Pretty much done with Bluetti over stupid moves they are making.
AC200L X 2 B300
AC180
AC70
EB53
AC60
4X BOUGE RV 200 N TYPE PANELS
@@Jasonoid Stop buying DC appliances. AC ones work just fine. Real simple.
I agree completely, a 12 volt car socket alone just does not cut it anymore,,,, that 20amp XT60 on the Pecron as well as it's HEATED for when it dips below 32F is a gamechanger... the big guys should take a lesson from a company that is InTouch with real world applications and how we use these .. thank you for bringing this to light in this way ... great video !!!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, I agree that these new features from Pecron are pretty cool!
I'm with you 100%! I have a 12-volt refrigerator/freezer, slow-cook crock pot, fan and beverage heater. I need more output options!
Thanks Jason, as always you bring to the table a topic that is valuable and noteworthy. More DC availability needs to upgraded. As campers and off gridders we travel and live low key. We are DC kinda people. So having more DC watts available makes more sense then adding more 120v sockets.
Exactly! Thanks for your support and commenting on the video. Every comment helps to get this video out there!
Ecoflow Delta 3 Plus user here. 15A would be nice as I use a diesel heater in my camper van.
Thanks for commenting!
From the price/performance/reliability aspect, this is why Pecron is emerging as a "True Innovative leader in the space". Love my Pecron products and I am sure the new E1000 will be no different. I do not camp much, so my needs are a bit different. But the point you make is valid, a 15-20 amp DC supply should be STD on these mid-sized units. Great content! Have a safe and prosperous New Year!
Happy new year and let's hope for these changes on new models! More DC power!
I agree, Jason. Thank you for highlighting this issue. My need for upgraded and more DC outputs would be for camping devices just as you demonstrated and talked about.
Glad you agree, more DC power would be great for camping and other portable needs!
AGREED! I use my power station in a camper trailer - 12V is a necessity. Not just one port, we need multiple 12V ports! Also, cigarette lighter ports are kind of ridiculous and bulky - maybe one, but XT60 is the way to go.
I totally agree with you on the cigarette lighter port! XT60 is the best way to go they XT60 support much more power safely!
I agree the cigarette lighter port is only there because so much 12v portable equipment has been grandfathered in. And 5.5 x 2.1mm barrel connectors are only rated up to 5 amps. But it definitely wouldn't hurt to have an APP or XT60 port.
Whatever connector is used, it needs to be fused or current regulated based on the size of the battery in the power station) or within reason. The consumer can't be counted on to do the right thing. It has to be idiot proof. Also it probably has to have some type of electronics to limit the so called output port from someone just hooking solar panels onto it vs the regular charging port.........unless they are using their own external charge controller of course. All things are possible if they are willing to put the engineering design work or added cost into it.
@jeffl6089 all of these units are current regulated. You pull too many amps and it shuts off 👍 we just need more power before it shuts off
@@Jasonoid Fair enough. It would also be nice if the voltage did not sag too much with whatever regulated circuit they are doing. I miss the slightly higher raw voltage (around 13vdc) that a LiFePO4 battery voltage provides. I don't have that many power stations and am speaking from experience on my Energizer/Powerwin unit.
@@Jasonoidturning off the circuit is a very rudimentary form of current regulation 😂. These stations could actually go one step further and dynamically manage the load to not reset
I've got that Pecron unit. There's more DC input as well. Heating feature is nice and has worked well for me so far. Pecron's taking the lead now.
I agree that they are listening to what people actually want. I love the new built in heaters too!
Completely agree with the need for high-output 12 volt DC ports. FYI, the Bluetti AC240 does have a 30-amp 12 volt output, although the cable to use it has to be purchased separately (~ $40). Being IP65 rated is useful for camping and outdoor use as well.
Yep, that unit is hugely over-priced and very heavy, good quality though. They could have put high DC output on the AC180 and the AC200L but they decided to not to. Even their new "Elite 200 V2" doesn't have high DC output.....?!? Why Bluetti!? Bluetti even removed the DC output on their new "APEX 300" unit entirely! They are going in the wrong direction IMO.
I live 24/7 using 12v DC appliances such as a refrigerator. Efficiency without conversion to AC is a purchase factor.
I bought a E1000 just for the higher 20 amp 12 volt outlet. My E3600 Pecron has a 30 amp 12 volt outlet using the XT60. I have several Bluetti products and they fall short for 12 volt outlets so that is why I have been switching to Pecron. Self heating battery on the E1000 is a nice added feature also.
I'm glad Pecron is doing what people are asking for! More DC power!
The old ac200max from bluetti has a 30amp 12v aviation socket 😉
In Vanlife it's very important to have higher DC output to manage all the 12V in the camper.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
So glad someone with more influence is bringing this up! Many of these power supplies are used in vans and campers, and yet they've limited the 12v so much.
Please fight for our 5521 barrel plugs too. I complained to Anker about them removing the barrel plugs from newer products. And I told Bluetti and Ecoflow I would not buy any 'battery without barrel plugs. I have them wired into all kinds of low wattage devices.
I agree a 20 amp would be great I use a diesel heater and a fan in my tent. Had to build my own unit.
They lost money on your purchase. Many more people would choose to go with a power station if they had higher DC power available.
My Goal Zero Yeti 1000 from 2017 has 12v lighter port, Anderson ports, and 12v barrel connection.
I'm totaly agree !
Yes please!!! I almost bought the EcoFlow Delta 3 plus.... and then I saw in your video it didn't have much DC power! Please EcoFlow, we need at least 180 watts on your small and medium units too!
Same, was going to buy it, but will go with pecron instead. Now if they would just have dual solar input standard as well.
The video you made with your father in law is one of my favorites. The video showing his DIY power stations with DC Anderson Powerpoles. A DIY video creating a similar setup would be great for us who have limited knowledge how build one correctly. Thanks again for all your hard work making these videos. You’re one of the best on TH-cam.
Many new DC devices on the market, cooking and lighting. Other than multiple smaller power stations, you have no way to charge multiple devices simultaneously. Thanks Jason for helping❤
You're welcome, I hope it makes a difference!
I agree that the 12VDC car socket is a legacy item. It was useful when a lot of people used 12V appliances, or other things related to automotive stuff. It was even useful for a USB outputs at one time, but now USB outputs are included on stations as a given. Personally I would like to see XT60 or Anderson Power Pole connector replace the barrel socket, as they have the most versatility. As fr as 12VDC appliances, I don't have any. I used to be a backpacker where power isn't a thing, and graduated to a truck camper, which has both 12V and 120V built in via batteries and a propane generator. If I need to take my CPAP camping, I plug it in and let that system do the work. I can understand people need higher output when car camping, and applaud those companies like Pecron that are giving the market better options.
My whole approach to the DC output is that you can run your devices much more efficiently. The DC output uses very little background power from the battery, while the AC inverter will eat though 25% of your battery overnight on it's own. A very big difference!
I agree. Pecron for the win at the moment.
I can't be the only person using 12V devices during hurricane season every year. Sometimes we go through 2 or more storm cycles a year. It's like camping out. And having only one DC receptacle at mealtime adds more stress to an already stressful situation. The AC receptacles are being used for other important issues. More than one DC port is an absolute necessity. Thank you, Jason, for attempting to make the companies aware of the need for more DC ports on their stations.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who feels this way! Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Oh yes definitely higher A on the DC 12V would be amazing. I’ve had my diesel heater unable to start up too many times and the DC -> AC conversion to run overnight is just simply extremely inefficient, let’s change this!!
Yeah, the AC inverter burns through your battery so fast! DC output would be much more efficient!
So true, why isn't anyone else saying this?
Great question! I hope we see some videos and pressure from other channels / creators as well!
100% agree. I hate going from 12v to AC. It's so inefficient. I too have multiple 12v items to run.
Thanks for commenting!
You called it by the correct name once, but the "12 volt socket" is a remnant from the 1950s, when everyone smoked. Vehicle manufacturers developed a cheap yet functional way to make lighting cigarettes easier. This "port" was never intended (initially) to function as a power source for 12 volt accessories and (as you pointed out) does a very poor job. Now, 70 years later, it's time to move on and use a connector specifically designed to deliver low voltage power.
It's the wrong kind of connector because it's not a connector, it's half of a cigarette lighter assembly. This "connector is not safe or particularly suited as a power delivery port.
I need 24 amps at 13.8 volts to operate ham radio equipment in the field. The standard DC connector for the amateur radio community is the Anderson Powerpole. A 30 amp (360 Watts) Anderson Powerpole 12 volt output would be a welcome addition.
Secondly, my Chinese Diesel Heater requires about 15 amps at 12 volts (about 180 Watts) to operate the glow plug during startup. A 10 amp limit on the 12 volt outputs negates the possibility of using a portable power station for one of its most basic functions.
I wouldn’t have cared so much about the dc output until I began discovering and exploring the appliances that are out there, and some of them are amazing and accomplish cooking heating and refrigeration with barely 100w so that’s extremely valuable. The unsung heroes are those appliances though, so I think they need to get more prime time and advance and find their way out of vans and more into homes as they improve and consume as little as possible for what they accomplish.
Excellent point! Check out Katys camp kitchen, she has great videos about those 12v cooking appliances!
I've been wondering for a while how much longer the old "cigarette lighter" outlet will last. Like you mention, there's so many better options. Diesel heaters commonly require up to 15 amps and these power stations should be able to provide that. Also, there are known issues with 12v plugs coming undone due to vibrations like you experience when driving/off-roading. Not only a bump in available power, but a more secure connection would be greatly appreciated.
I agree as well. There needs to be more DC output options. Maybe even a second cigarette outlet.
I think a minimum of 180 watts should be a requirement!
One of the reasons I recently purchased a Oupes Mega 2 was that it comes with a 30 amp DC Anderson port. I plan to use that port at my off grid cabin and on a future RV.
I'm glad some companies have the higher DC output ports, it's something we need to see more of, especially on the large brands!
Excellent presentation. Thank you. You and I have both been preaching this for the past couple of years. Precron really seems to be the leader for the van/truck/car camping crowd that will be needing solid 12v output options. They lead with not only various connectors - 5521, 5525, XT60 - but with amperage and some with even 12v and 24v outputs on the same unit. I love the 24v 5525 port on my Pecron E300 as it can power most fridges and even a Starlink Mini. Never realized how useful the 24v output would be until I started using it, especially since it can deliver twice the amps over the same gauge wire and many/most 12v devices also supporting 24v. I will not buy any new unit that is just a big heavy inverter/phone charger, which is what the Bluetti's/Jackery's have become, with poor 12v output options.
Definitely need at least 20 amps of 12V DC. When we travel we have a 12V cooler, a CPAP, a 12V air compressor that needs 15amps, and sometimes a few other gadgets. The AC plugs are great but more 12V capability is needed for sure.
That’s a lot of 12v power for travel! I’m hoping that these manufacturers will listen to us and make more powerful DC output options.
Totally agree. When I off-road, I rarely have any 120v ac devices with me. Like you, my fridge is 12v, my lights are 12v, my air pump is 12v. They could junk all but 1 or 2 AC port and load up with multiple 12v sockets. I really prefer the XT60 for the solid connection. I have a Bluetti EB3A and an Ecoflow River 2. They are small, light and fit well in my truck with all my gear.
A high powered XT60 would be awesome on the smaller models!
That's why I like the Oupes Mega 2 so much. 30 amps DC output, even on the extra B2 battery.
I agree.. Living in a Motorhome.. That's why I got the Dabbsson 2300 as it has got a 35 amp DC outlet with an anderson, as I conected it direct to my fuse box and can now run the whole van off the power bank, I conected a 400watt solar panel to the Dabbsson power bank and very rare have to charge it from AC.. Great video saying what we all have been asking for for years...
I agree! I love the 12v 25a plug on my older bluetti ac200p. Run my campervan off that. Don't understand why the newer powerstations are moving away from that 🤔
It doesn't make sense! Thanks for commenting, I agree!
The AC240P has a 30A 12V output. But it's one of the rare ones that has one. The old Goalzeroes also had one but they still used Lithium Ion batteries.
Agreed on your D/C output thoughts. Looking fwd. to your tests on that new Pechy 1000. Thanks.
I'm excited to test that newer design out. The fans seem quiet and it's feature packed.
I agree but there should be a dedicated monster DC option for cabins and boats. Big enough for external inverters and breaker boxes. But portable so they don't need to be left behind when not using them at location.
That would be a cool option! Right now the EcoFlow DPU is the only option that has both a large AC inverter and decent DC ouput (30 amps @ 12v, good for about 400 watts).
OMYGOD Jason you are my hero! THANK YOU for making this IMPORTANT VIDEO!!!! I have been screaming nonstop about more DC output for a couple of years now, and I have refused to upgrade to anything that won't give me that output. Full stop. I need to run all those items you mentioned as well as a CPAP. DC power is SO much more efficient! In fact, I think any PPS needs only 2 AC outlets max. Get a power strip if you need more than that. There is ZERO reason why we can't demand as consumers for a PPS that can give us 30 amps or more DC. Get a clue, manufacturers!
Can I heart this comment 10 times....?! I've shared this video with my contacts for these companies, let's hope it doesn't fall on deaf ears!
EXACTLY!!! Well done! I'm with you! The 12V cig socket is woefully inadequate and has been for years on these powerstations. I have voted with my wallet by NOT buying any of these newer units at all. I was one of the original AC50S kickstarters and the first thing I did was take it apart and replace the cig lighter socket with an XT60 so I could at least supply my van a wiggle free solid connection for my devices (fan, fridge, diesel heater). Ironically inside the AC50S they use an XT60 to connect the cig lighter to the BMS. 😂 Since then I have refused to buy another power station from them because they have not upgraded from using the woeful cig lighter in 95% of their power stations (save one high end behemoth they since discontinued).
You're lucky your diesel heater starts at all with the 10A output. Many don't on power stations.
@@RustyMisterTwo Well, I chose an actual 2kW diesel heater. The larger 5kw ones (who run in a "2kw" mode) are known to require more than 10A, but the authentic smaller 2kW heaters work within the 10A limit. :)
@@alwaysmoneyinthebananastan8975 the Chinese ones might but not the autotherm 2kw. Neither do the German (webasto) ones.
Totally agree but lets double that...... Two 5A barrel connections Two 10A 12V sockets and Two 20A XT60 ports
Totally agree. I'm currently midway through a DIY power station build using a 12v 230ah battery to supplement my Ecoflow Delta 2 and expand capacity while on camping trips. I was originally planning on including a number of USB charging ports and a 2000w PSW inverter but realized I already have adequate inverter power for the AC appliances I run and enough USB on the D2 as well. So, I ditched those ideas on the DIY build and opted instead for a single USB port and 4 standard 12vdc socket outlets. I will run DC fans, an electric throw, a small dual zone fridge/freezer, from those additional 12v sockets and can always insert the latest USB technology port from charging into the remaining socket.
You’re absolutely correct. I’d also like to see some 24v outputs too. The DJI has an interesting Smart XT connection.
I tested those SDC ports in my Power 1000 video. They have adjustable output voltage. It seems anywhere between 12v all the way up to 58v with certain dongles connected.
Spot on Jason. I purchased a Bluetti 200max and a 230 based on your excellent review. As you know, this unit has the 12v plug-in at 10amps, AND has the aviation plug at 30, along with the two 10amp 5521 plugs…. When this unit bleeds out and can only operate at 80% I’ll continue to use it and not upgrade precisely due to the newer units lack of DC options- in my opinion, the “newer” units are simply not as usable. Thanks for looking out for us Jason, much appreciated.
I'm not sure why they are going in that direction on their new machines.... its lame!
100% agree. A couple years ago I built my own battery box with 3 36ah batteries in parallel, with 2 12v cigarette outlets with a 50a fuse on each (and heavier gauge wire). 25a fuses would still be plenty (and probably safer, lol) for my fridge, diesel heater, blanket, vacuum, fans, and other 12v devices. Video of the battery box on my channel. :)
Sounds like an excellent build!
What choices do I have for a smaller (under 2,000W) 24V output sogen? My 70W, 24V Jartoo electric blanket just arrived today and I really want to be able to use it when camping.
Can you share which one would you buy to use from power outage?
It all depends on what you are trying to power during an outage and for how long.
Agreed, a 20, or 30 amp DC port for trickle charging my 24 volt liFePO4 deep cycle batteries would be awesome especially after the power station is completely full and the pass through energy from solar panels aren't doing anything else.
I have been holding off buying a new unit because of lack of DC outputs. I have continued to use the three power stations I have when we camp and for emergency backup.
Space really matters in a camper. I think the first of the major brands to tackle this in the 1000ish Watt hour area will own the market. The bigger units that have enough DC outputs aren’t portable enough for one person to lift in and out of a camper on a regular basis and they take up too much space.
I want to be able to put my power station in the camper in an out of the way spot, and plug in everything needed and leave it due to the confined spaces. When there aren’t enough ports that have enough power, it is super inconvenient and lackluster. I think if they can tackle this, it will really make for lots of new and happy customers. Most people thinking of the 1000-2000 Watt hour units already have smaller units and really understand their needs. Hopefully we will start getting more DC outputs and the XT60 and Anderson connectors at a minimum.
Thank you for leading the charge!
- Katy
Excellent points, Katy! You definitely use your own share of 12v devices, especially for cooking!
Finally someone has said it. I'm a ham radio operator and would love to use these power stations for my radios but it is difficult when they only include one 12 volt accessory socket.
We can all agree that more DC power is needed!
I absolutely agree. The 12V cigar lighter outlet is outdated and IMHO, unsafe for large current loads. The connection is totally dependant on a cheap little spring-loaded positive connector that wants to pop out on it's own. Your recommended alternatives are the right idea, although I prefer the XT60 myself. Thanks for the great video.
XT60 for the win!
AMEN!! all i want for camping is a big 12 volt battery. A 20amp and 4 10 amp outlets would be perfect
I absolutely agree. I'd very much like to have more DC power available, because the one thing Id like more of is options. 3x 20A XT60s would be perfect, and would likely take up about the same panel real estate as a 10A cigarette lighter socket. Of course this extra capacity would only work when appliance manufacturers start putting beefer inputs on the devices they make, but who better to lead the change than the people making the devices that supply the power.
XT60s are the perfect solution, we need to make our voices heard. Thanks for commenting!
My Bluetti AC200Max has a 12v/30a DC RV output. But they removed it for the successor model AC200L. While I haven't used it yet, I'm glad the option is there.
I watched all of your videos trying to find a power station that would work for my truck camper. I have 4-5 DC loads that I need to power and no AC. It seems all of the major companies are prioritizing AC inverter power for the backup home use. I ended up building my own power station with the new LiTime 100ah smart mini in an Apache case. I have 2 20amp 12v sockets, 2 usb-a and 2 usb-c, and 4 20 amp xt60. I now can run fridge, exhaust fan, lighting, and charge all of my basic tech without the unnecessary AC. I also saved space in my truck with a smaller unit. These companies should absolutely invest in the DC heavy market of camping and overlanding.
I think they should make some serious changes, thanks for commenting!
So I finally got rid of my EB55, was a poor power station, loud fan noise even when low wattage input, never charged above 99watts even though I have 175w solar panel. Swapped for Ecoflow River 2 max. Its perfect, instantly hit 174w on the sun, fan noise is 2 - 3x less and doesn't turn on all the time, only when excess watts and high temps. Your videos and replies helped a lot.
Your point is valid (I wouldn't expect otherwise). Inflators and diesel heaters are two common items that typically need 150W or more, especially when starting up. What if you have two kids with 12V heated blankets? Multiple outlets are needed. Vendors can either build products that meet these needs, or people will have to find DIY solutions.
Thanks for confirming my thoughts! I'm glad people are wanting to see more DC power
We absolutely need the higher output dc alternative outputs. It's pretty shortsighted on the manufacturer's part that we don't. Even worse, Bluetti releases a power station that has a 48v dc output and it turns out to be an underhanded money grab to sell another $250.00 device to be able to use it. If they would remove the greedy protocol locking the 48v output it could be a game changer and highly innovative on their part but that's not likely. Thanks for trying to bring attention to this and create more awareness!
Now I'm hoping other creators make content trying to make a change as well. It's going to take multiple people giving this feedback!
I’ve only used my power station for emergency purposes, so I’m not one to comment. It makes perfect sense what you say Jason, as always 😊
Thanks for always supporting the channel :)
I agree with you 100% about dedicated higher amperage/voltage d.c. output ports. I’m an amateur radio operator and I often use my portable power stations for emergency communications. The standard d.c power ports are not sufficient to operate most radio transceivers. We have to plug in a power supply to the a.c. ports and then convert the energy back to higher amperage d.c. which is inefficient. Hopefully the manufacturers will listen and add additional d.c. power ports. Thank you for addressing this issue!
Great use case, thanks for explaining why you'd want more DC power!
Totally agree with a higher output DC option and that’s why I like the AC200Max as has the 30 amp output with the screw in plug
I’m an Aussie and BLUETTI asked for feedback regarding their products and I pointed out that many Australians use their power stations to power Ute canopies.
Having an Anderson or XT60 is a preference to many as we use this as a preferred connection
not only due to being higher rated but it is way more resistant to vibration in 4WD situations or as you guys call it overlanding
Can I add that a mounting cradle would be good addition to the range
Redarc do a unit called a GO Block that is restricted to DC that power station manufacturers could take as an example of a more versatile solution for users that want a semi permanent solution
They finally listened with giving us the charger 1 for vehicle charging so hopefully they listen to passionate people like yourself in improving their products usability
Hmmm, it does seem the smaller units have more DC out. One way I have worked around this is using USB c trigger modules. I always get power stations that have xt60 out.
Yeeeeeess and even in the “big boys”
I gotta think about a Delta Pro 3 and the reason is simple:
I’m redoing my RV electrical system and want the modularity of a few of these inside vs a whole bunch of components all over.
But that Pecron… 👀
As an avid camper I’m waiting for a unit that would meet those dc needs. I’ll hold onto my cash till then.
Hopefully one day we'll have a 1000-2000wh portable unit from Ecoflow or Anker that has a 20 amp to 30 amp DC output.... that would be a dream!
Using a Delta 2 for powering my RV.
Have been trying to find a efficient way to charge the deep cycle battery with no luck.. if I want to use more than about 3 A I need to use AC power to do it which is highly inefficient.
It doesn’t even look like outside of the hobby community. You can get a DC to DC battery maintainer with a low enough amp draw to be usable.
So even if you’re OK with limiting to 3 A no one even makes a product that will do it. Aside from the alternator chargers, which are very expensive and overkill for what I need. I just need to keep the battery topped up and run the 12 V lighting..
100%, especially when most of the diesel heaters pull around 150-200watt on start up and shut downs.
Good video and comment exchange. Things I would recommend is 4 x 120V 20A. Plugs. Do away with USB-A plugs (everything is going to USB-C). The USB-C outlets should be a minimum of 100W. Remove the 12V car barrel (old school) and replace with more modern plugs like the XT60. I have electronics that can operate from 12 to 48V, so would like to have outlets that can adjust output in that range.
Agree. They should follow pecron and put XT60. 20A from XT60 seems awesome.
As you said, you have 1500Wh unit which cant power diesel heater alone. I tried few days ago using Allpowers R600 to power diesel heater and it took 3 times to run it (when its heated up, then it draws less current so it can run). Also here is a little trick to run diesel heater: put it on lowest setting when it is heating up. At least that helped me to run it.
What if you wanted to run a 12v fridge at the same time? No way! It's hit's or miss with diesel heaters but if you want to run two things, no chance! The best thing would be to have enough power to not even have to think about running a diesel heater and a fridge at the same time.
@Jasonoid Of course, I totally agree with you. Just said what can you try, in case of emergency. It is stupid to have so much power stored and only way to get it out is via AC socket (with alot of energy loss). Yea, we definitely need alot more amps on DC.
While I agree to a certain extent, there will be downsides. the issue is that most of this systems aren't 12v internally. They have to convert their voltage down to 12v. The bigger the DC to DC converter the larger it's stand by consumption will be. For many of us, low standby consumption is super important. Things like fridges that require constant power but use very little wattage over all. It wouldn't be useful if they start using huge DC to DC converters that have a large stand by consumption, make the units bigger, and cost more. Generally the large DC to DC converters also have worse efficiency at lower wattages. 12v it's pretty crappy to run big things, requires pretty big wires to be efficient. Cigarette lighter ports were never meant to be used for high power devices. They absolutely should have been replaced a long time ago. I personally think they should replace them with XT60, with some sort of lock. I'm not a fan of the current XT60 lock, maybe add thread in collars like the old monitor cables had.
I agree so much with this! At minimum all power stations should have at least 1 high output DC port along with the cig port.
More DC power options please. That has been my number one must have, if I purchase another power station. If I can't find what I want, I'll just assemble it myself. While you're at it, you may as well add built in DC to DC Alternator charging.
That would be cool! Built in alternator charging right inside the unit!
Well...I already purchased the E1000LFP and the expansion battery. It really hits a sweet spot of power and portability in my book. The diesel heater is the main thing that I have that tests the limits of the standard car plug. I do have some DC lights that I use at times too.
How has it been working for you so far?!
@@Jasonoid Well...I started doing some testing, but then we decided to get all snowy, icy and freezing on the east coast. It has been charged up and ready to work in case of a power outage since then. Now that we are finally coming out of that weather, I hope to test it more. I like it so far and the idle draw on AC was pretty reasonable at close to 1% per hour.
Absolutely agree Jason. I would love to see 2 12V connectors that support 20 amps. Many batteries have enough AC ports but they can do away with an AC port if they need more space for 2 12V connectors. Support to run simultaneous 12V lights, fans, fridges…
The connector itself matters greatly in handling greater amps. Because poor connections result in high resistance (and therefore high heat), the standard 12v socket may be poorly designed for high amp loads. And the quality of many 12vdc cigarette style sockets if of poor quality in production and then they don't hold up well after many plug/unplug cycles. XT60 connectors are of generally higher quality and fit, as well as Anderson style.
I agree! If they gave us some XT60 or Anderson ports, we could pull up to 30 amps safely!
YES! I have several small 12v appliances and a 12v heated blanket. I would greatly benefit from multiple 12v outlets. In fact I would absolutely love SEVERAL higher watt outlets and USB connections without ANY AC outlets. Thanks
I'd love a higher power 12v port. The problem is the internal battery is not (usually) 12v but much higher. That means they need a DC:DC converter to drop the voltage down to provide the 12v. I've found the 10 amp buck converters are 1/3 or less the price of the 20amp units.
I've pretty much decided if I need more than 10a at 12v, and nominal 12v LiFePO4 battery voltage is okay (typically over 13v) then I just use a LiFePO4 battery.
Several companies make little boxes you can attach to a LiFePO4 battery to provide a lighter outlet, some USB outlets, and usually Anderson SB50 connections. I have two from Licitti and ordered two more. Also readily available are battery boxes with similar functionality built in. I find the only thing missing is the nicely integrated package of a power station. The flexibility of more closely matching my needs compensates for that in many of my use cases.
I feel like dropping voltage is more efficient than boosting voltage. The power stations that I have tested with higher DC ouputs (20 to 30 amps) seem to work well with a 48v battery and putting out 12v. I don't think we need quite that much power on all these units, I'd be content seeing at least 180 watts via an XT60 on small / medium power stations.
I do the same. I just have an random car battery that my diesel heater is connected to. We don't live in the van, just weekend trips and it lasts a couple of days.
I so agree. Thanks for making this video
Absolutely agree with greater 12 (actually 12.8) volt DC output. My use - amateur radio. My solution, 100 AH LiFePO4 12.8 volt batteries (which I also use as INPUT to the power stations to extend their USB and/or AC outputs - rather than much more expensive expansion batteries). If the power station had better 12V output, I would look to them as my total field power solution rather than separate 12 volt batteries.
I want this...because you guys want it!!
Next up.....get rid of these 60v power stations. Pecron does so many things right. Salute to them!! They have really improved since they first hit the scene with external charge controllers and such.
I sure hope the 60v limit goes away, especially on larger models!
Right on the money Jason. I agree wholeheartedly. Get something done or let's all go pecron. I love their 3600 and fortunately it went down in price by 200 from Christmas. I don't need another one but for the price I am thinking about it.
I don't think car charger plugs can handle that high a wattage without melting, but I love what Dr. Prepare did with the new power module. They now have Anderson out instead of the socket and give you an Anderson to car charger port if that's what you want, but you can also go with an Anderson to other adapter cable such as XT60. I also wish the makers would keep the 5521 barrel outputs. Thanks for the video, Jasonoid.
Totally agree, they need to focus on supporting multiple devices running on 12 volts. If they don't want to take up the space to add multiple ports to the power station itself, they could have a single high-amp connector that breaks out to an external 12 volt distribution panel
If the battery internally is 12 volt lifepo4, it would also be nice if the DC output isn't regulated. Regulating the output is unnecessary for 12 volt lifepo4 because the usable voltage range is already accepted by most 12 volt appliances, so we're wasting power by regulating the output.
The video we needed!! Need additional DC , one for BiPaP machine, one for 12V fan and one for DC fridge.
I have a Lion Energy Safari with a 25amp Anderson plug, I connect it to a Blue Sea dc fuse box ans set up a few dc items in my Van when using it for traveling, Saves me having to set up a permanent system and much less expensive. Benn doing this for years
I would like to see more output for a 12v option . I have been wanting t upgrade my power system in my van to a larger solar generator but held off for years because I would need more DC inputs to run most of items in my van . Max Air fan , lighting , fridge , heater , exhaust fan and so on .
I was thinking the same thing with my Delta 3 Plus. Ended up just buying a 100ah lithium battery with bluetooth and it is essentially the same thing. Shouldnt need 2 different batteries though. They also need a better way to plug a 12v lithium battery into the Delta 3 Plus to charge it faster than that slow 12v jack. I know I can tap into the solar inputs but that is also slow at 15 amps when my 100ah 12v lithium has a 100amp BMS. Let me have 20 or 30 amps!
I hope they hear what we want! I'll be sharing this video with them :) Maybe it will make a difference?.... we can hope
converter 12 to 24v or 12 to 48v
Absolutely agree, Jason! I would use my EF Delta 3+ so much more if it had more DC output. I run many 12V devices when camping including a fridge, multiple lights, water pump, heated blanket, heater, etc. Even with my Pecron E2000LFP that has 3x 12V outputs, I have to swap devices to use. Having a 20-30A 12V output would solve much if that, but just a single cigarette 12V out is even worse, hence why the D3+ is rarely in my vehicle. These mid-size 1kWh to 2kWh power stations are perfectly sized for camping, but most range from somewhat to severely limited in their DC output support.
Totally. Some bigger units do have 12v 30a dc out, even some external batteries (Pecron for one). Also if possible trying to optimize the DC consumption part so if one can manage without using the AC one would save some power from the inverter. Some units have more DC consumption than the AC section.
Most units I have tested the AC inverters use much more background power draw (1 to 2 percent of the battery capacity per hour while on). The DC output typically uses 0.2 to 0.5 percent per hour.
@@Jasonoid Yes thanks. I meant not when idle but when using all the battery the efficiency many times was very similar or even less with the DC in some cases (for example 85% efficiency using AC and around the same with DC instead of being much higher with DC).
I totally agree with you Jay but I will say my delta3 plus does run my vevor 8k diesel heater plugged into 12v socket . I was surprised but I also ran it on my bluetti ac180. I must admit Pecron always goes the extra mile with its great products . I have the e600 and e 300 love them both . Take care Jay love your channel.
My diesel heater fails to start up on my Delta 3 Plus. Some of the brand new diesel heater pulls slightly less power though. You'd still have an issue powering multiple loads at the same time. Throw a 12v fan on their at the same time as your diesel heater and it would fail.
OK, I will join you in this FINE endeavor. 12 VDC output IS A LEGITIMATE NEED. XT60 30A would be worthwhile for my use. Adaptability is critical for new applications as well.
Both me and my wife are sleep apnea patients on CPAP which we run on backup when grid power frequently fails & for camping. Also can run my portable fridge!
Yes! I need more 12v to run my cabin, which is all 12v lighting and diesel heater, along with usb connections via marine panels. I use a 12v 30amp power supply connected to the 120v AC on the Ecoflow to achieve this. The diesel heater alone needs more than 10 amps on startup.
I think the problem is that internal battery is 48 to 52 volts, so there's additional circuitry to get the 12v.
I have an EcoFlow Delta 2 Max in my Runaway Rouser. My experience is the cigarette plug jiggles loose when traveling and I have to push the cord back in the outlet to begin using my 12v devices. An XT60 plug would be a welcome addition.
I agree! Been watching you for awhile you always have informative content and easily become one of my favorite information channels
Awesome! Thank you so much!
Yes! I have been struggling with powering my diesel heater with ANY Model of Ecoflow. The glow plug just shuts the battery down. I am all in on EF. For camping. I own 2 delta max, the wave2, river pro, smart generator alternator charger and 840W of EF solar panels.
I have converted my gen2 Starlink to run DC.
Yet sadly I have to use the AC inverter on all of these devices to power the diesel heater. It sucks
Ecoflow only believes in putting high DC power in their larger units, I wish they would listen to my advice when I tell them tons of people want more than 10 amps DC power. Let's hope they listen!