Now that you have a new old GPU, why not test it out by playing Stellaris free this weekend. Check it out on steam or at lmg.gg/StlLTT starting on the 22nd.
@@brutallica2944 because the hype is about performance when the price is unknown? Where tf does he hype the bad products from Nvidia recently? Western customers who blindly buy overpriced shit is why we are in this situation.
I’m usually not a big fan of buying used electronics, but with the crazy MSRP of GPUs these days, I almost feel morally obligated to do so if I was building a new system.
The issue is, it's kind of not all too great depending on location. Where I'm from I can get e.g. a 6800XT for 440€ not including shipping, instead of a new one for 550€. This also is for at least 1-2 year old cards. The risk is probably low on sites like e-bay but 110€ savings still doesn't feel like beating the system. Also what do people think what the seller did? Buying used cards for high prices can't break the new GPU market. The people selling their GPU are most likely buying new themselves. The new market dictates the price for used hardware in most situations. Lastly despite the low risk and evident price advantage, the used market is such a tiny fraction, it hardly changes anything. You see some offers for days or weeks online (similar to above example) while companies like mindfactory sell thousands of cards weekly in countries like germany.
@@brohvakiindova4452 Re: "people selling their GPU are most likely buying new" Yes that's true, but if you're buying theirs second hand it means *YOU* aren't buying new. A similar argument can be made about e-waste, if we both buy new and toss the old ones, that's 2 cards gone to waste. If you buy a new one, I buy yours, and I toss mine, that's only one card gone to waste.
@@almc8445 True, but come on we all know 95% of consumer graphics cards are sold in prebuilt systems. I wasn't trying to say it's pointless to buy used, just not THAT significant for many other factors like people not bothering with selling their old hardware to have backup and then really having E-waste sitting there because after some years it's not worth selling anymore or being too lazy etc. That being said maybe my critique is stupid because it could become more significant, if more people would do so.
I hope they do another scrapyard wars. I have wanted to see them do a complete streaming setup. Get streamers involved and judge by quality of the live stream rather than just raw performance.
It also makes sense when their company is so much bigger now. They can have some of their lesser known employees buy parts without risk getting recognized the same way as would be the case for Linus. Then Linus could be the commentator for the video / judge regarding which team that wins.
i'm still using a 1080ti that i got with a full machine, keyboard, and monitor for $1k, while the card alone at the time was the same price. easy deals.
1080ti team, still able to play any AAA game and VR, wont upgrade until next gen probably I am hoping for a boycot from gamers and actually drop the gpu prices
7 years of age and it STILL is on performance charts. I got a 1080 just for the looks right before the 30 series launch, and it eventually went in my daily driver machine during covid because nothing else was available (affordable) at that time.
_Important note:_ when you go searching for your ideal used card, it's probably a good idea to _not_ buy anything _older_ than an RTX 2000 series GeForce or a 6000 series Radeon (yes 6000 not 5000). Those are the first Nvidia and AMD generations respectively to fully support DirectX 12.2 (AKA DirectX 12 Ultimate), which is the DX version implemented by the current gen consoles. That means if you have one of those cards or newer then your card is sure to support all upcoming games for a _long_ time.
5700/xt and vega 56 and 64 are amazing value for the money though, there's nothing comparable otherwise. There's an ebay sold listing of a vega 64 for 64$. Techpowerup relative performance has vega 64 tied with the 2060/1080. 3060 is only 20% ahead
Looks at 1660 Ti laptop I got in 2020 instead of 2060? 2080? Whelp, not much I can do about that. Another reason to look forward to a framework laptop in my future
I appreciate that Linus acknowledges his privileged position as a wealthy industry insider. It makes it a lot easier to take him seriously as someone that's actually considered the position the rest of us are in. A lot of people in that position just stop acknowledging it because it's awkward for them to admit that they're not directly speaking for their audience, but when they leave it unspoken it always leaves a bad taste in my mouth. EDIT: Before anyone else comes into this accursed space to tell me that I'm "upset" or "pissed" about this, please point to the part of my comment that made you project your own emotional volatility onto me, then don't make a comment about it. Instead why don't you volunteer at your local mutual aid group, or maybe beat your head against a brick wall? Both would be more productive uses of your time.
They're not supposed to "speak for the audience" and frankly, it shouldn't need to be said. Their job is to show us how it works, maybe provide some different perspectives to consider. Nothing more. They're not supposed to tell us how to feel.
But it's irrelevant. He's right - the market determines the prices... The only ones to blame are the consumers. Getting pissed at LTT (privileged or not) for saying that would just show how spoiled/immature/entitled/karenish the person would be. The irony here is that LTT IS trying to change the market pricing... But not by yelling at manufacturers (which would not work). He's educating the market.
@@davidfidler8761 I'm not talking about getting pissed at anyone, I'm explaining why Linus's attitude is helping him keep people engaged and listening to him. If he wasn't like that I probably wouldn't be pissed, I just wouldn't be watching. Pretty straightforward consumer behaviour I would have thought. Also if market prices are anyone's fault then that fault lands on both consumers and suppliers. It's absurd to say that the market is only influenced by actors on one side.
The issue is that Linus is wrong here in this case #1 GPUs are not as elastic as we all would like. The market is captured by only a few players and they are required to complete a task people want, so unless people are going to stop playing games not buying GPUs is a hard sell. The other thing is that Nvidia in particular wont drop prices they will just stop making GPUs for gaming and will just fully shift to AI Cards and drop the consumer GPU market altogether.
It sucks, but Linus is right I've been saying it for years. If you keep buying as they raise the prices, that's a thumbs up signal to keep raising prices. People buying up ALL the GPUs while they were at scalper prices was the biggest signal to GPU manufacturers from consumers that GPUs needed a massive MSRP increase, and that's now arrived.
I feel like when I told people during covid that prices would never come back down because the sellers/manufacturers learned just how much money people were willing to spend I was laughed at
@@amicloud_yt - Those prices were so incredibly high because of crypto-mining, and this latest crypto-crash was followed by multiple crypto-currencies moving away from the traditional proof-of-work model in favor of something more efficient.
@@amicloud_yt Same. And I still get laughed at every time someone says AMD will come to the rescue, despite the repeating evidence that they always price just below Nvidia, and just below insanity is still insanity.
No, he’s not right. Nvidia doesn’t give a shit about if their gaming cards are selling because they’re cashing in on AI right now. AMD can price themselves just under nvidia’s ludicrous pricing because there’s no other competition. The pricing isn’t really coupled to demand, there are other factors going on right now.
This is why I can't wait for the labs website. Userbenchmark SUCKS, and yet it's still the most broad and exhaustive list of parts with a UI that lets you easily compare stuff. It really is a shame that you just cannot trust their data, because it's super useful. As much as "ohh you can't just give a single number to show all the performance, it doesn't tell the whole story", well... for people who don't know what they're doing, a single number at least gives *something* of a point of reference for if you wanna find out a 1650 isn't better than a 1080 because bigger number must be better (real story, I based a laptop purchase on this 4 years ago. agony)
@@blunderingfool It's such a shame cause it honestly would be a great site if they were just honest. Ads aren't intrusive, UI makes it easy to compare things at a glance super fast then select something else to compare to fast all without scrolling, and has more detailed info underneath in a neat simple layout. On other sites I have to scroll all the way down to the bottom just to find actual benchmarks or a solid number to compare with. I honestly think UI is the sole reason they still pop up before any other search result. Even knowing how terrible they are I still find myself using it, only saying "Add 20% to the score if it's an AMD thing", because no other site replaces their convenience. And yet all that is worthless because their data is just intentionally wrong. Praying LTT takes hints from their UI so we can finally just replace them completely and lay them to rest.
labs website seems to be a long project make take at least 6 months to role out first version of website, that is if they cover all the cards and all the systems and at least 20 gaming titles
The issue here is now if demand for the used GPUs goes up and increases the used prices. I’ve seen it happen across other 2nd hand products (not IT related) with much smaller audiences.
Agreed. I was looking at used prices but realised that a new RTX 3060 12GB was actually a pretty decent card for reasonable money new. If you want cheaper bang for buck then a VEGA 56 is a good bet.
As a 2080 ti owner myself, it is pretty insane what people are asking for used ones. It's a great card and she's never let me down, but 400 dollars is too much.
Yeah and the people got mad at the scalpers. Wrong, get mad at the people buying it, or just be happy you live in a free market were supply an demand is at work. :)
Ive sold 7 of them myself that i bought at walmart this way just cuz idiots will buy them. Saved them $200 over anyone elses prices and made a chunk for myself
I'm not sure that the 2080 Ti being 'a lot closer to losing driver support than the 3080' is a huge deal right now in June 2023, Nvidia's driver version 536.23 released June 14 2023 still supports the GeForce 750 Ti, 750 and 745 which launched ~ February 18th 2014 according to Techpowerup. Over 9 years ago. 2080 Ti launched September 20 2018, so if we assume that it will be supported at least as long as the 700 series... it should still have new drivers into 2028, 5 more years from now (and counting).
The only problem is that Nvidia is taking that into account, as well. If less people are buying their brand-new cards, they'll start dropping support like crazy to try to force people to get a newer card. I do whole-heartedly agree with that, though. The 2080 TI slaughters even a 3070 at everything that I ran on both cards: Forza Horizon 4&5, Halo Infinite, GTA V, Fortnite, Cyberpunk. That INCLUDES with ray-tracing turned on, but only because the 2080 TI was so over-powered to begin with that they re-introduced the xx90 series in the next generation.
Right now, I'm not going to assume anything that involves giving Nvidia the benefit of the doubt. In fact, I could see them doubling down on their crap. Let's be honest...would anybody be surprised if NVidia pulled a scumbag move like dropping support for anything older than 3000 series whenever 5000 series is released?
IMPORTANT NOTE FOR BUYING USED CARDS! Even when the seller says the card was not used for mining please check the GPU-Z and compare the specs between your gpu and the manufacturer specs, my gpu was heavily underclocked and restoring by gpu bios flash restored its original clocks.
@@prateekpanwar646 that means without checking you would avoid questions like "why the fuck my speeds in games are not like I seen others get on TH-cam?"
@@Majorowsky1337yeah my 6700xt was used for mining, I was wondering why I was getting below 60 fps in everything. I had to update drivers and tweak the settings, bios too lol Now I'm over 100 FPS in most games in 1080p
The problem is even if the prices drop in some places around the world , a lot of us only dream to even see close enough prices to the o es shown in videos like this . Here in EU they are still pretty high and it looks like it is not gonna change anytime soon
Yeah. You can have an RTX 3060 or a PS5 in France. Who is seriously gonna buy an RTX3060 when you can have a PS5 that is literally more powerful for the same price. ☠️ GPU market is broken, except for some AMD cards
In india the prices have gone down really good but it took a serious time for that to happen. But I now have lost all my mojo for the high end gaming thnks to this pricing fiasco. There are priorities important than gaming and i dont see any point in investing $300 $400 just for entertainment. Bought a 1650 on a decent price and m very happy. Only do casual gaming now.
@@atomkacke I have a 3060 *ti* and it performs worse than my PS5. It can barely play any games in 4K at 60 fps , especially with high graphics settings. And it doesn't change the fact that it's the same price as a working console. You are not gonna play any games with just a 3060
@@bradhaines3142 It actually isn't worn out - it's just something that would be best done once a year, or maybe whenever a hot new GPU or other hardware is released to show case the value of the second hand market.
One tip: Always use paypal/credit card or some sorta payment method to protect your purchase. Just ask the seller to send invoice through paypal for instance. If he complains about the 3% paypal fee. Just have him to add 3% fee and pay for it. If he refuses to do those badly, something might not be right and I'll walk way. (Aka: There might still be fake gpu/fake orignal invoices out there).
@@benadriel Also DO NOT SEND MONEY THROUGH PAYPAL FRIENDS. Normal paypal allows you to refund, but if you add him as a friend and send him the money though there, it´s quite possible is a scammer
Also quick tip, PayPal automatic fraud system only checks if the city is identical, not the full address. When that is the case and your seller sends a fkin letter to a random warehouse in your city from Hong Kong and PayPal denies your claim, then call them immediately. Pathetic worthless wannabe programmers
You have to appreciate that GPU prices have gotten so absurdly bad that it takes buying the previous generation's mid-tier second hand to start approaching what the high end retail prices used to be.
I remember when I first built my computer in 2008. First gen i7 920 and a 4870, it was right around the fastest computer you could build with consumer grade hardware. It was 300 bucks and was a basically top of the line card, I think I even bought it before the 4890 came out. It's insane that a decent video card is now more than the entire cost of my first PC, monitors, keyboard and mouse included.
@@beeman4266it's insane that a low-midtier card costs $300+. You can go a step further and talk about CPU pricing as well. Sure these components do more and are more powerful, but that's expected since it's been 15 years! I think the days of a bargain are gone :/
part of it is inflation. prices are up 40% since 2010. part of it is also manufacturing. CMOS scaling is reaching its limit, so they need bigger sizes.
@elfrjzgreed all the way. Even with inflation taken into account, everything from computer parts makers to grocery stores to hpusing markets, it shows that that the companies themselves skyrocleted the price far above the inflation line
Rather than buying a used card from a private seller you can also try a recycling centre as most will offer a warranty even if the gpu is out of the manufacturers warranty. As an example my current gpu came with a 1 year warranty and that was why I bought it as having had 2 gpu failures (my original from new and an eBay replacement) and as it was during the pandemic when prices were so high, a warranty was a must.
@@cloudofthought Was about to say that. The one here doesn't offer to sell any of the things. Even if the visitor wants to give money for still fully functional things, they don't allow it.
Should have said I'm in the UK so other countries may not have this, also by recycling centre I mean a company that specialises in e-waste as opposed to say your local dump (which could also be called a recycling center since they'll seperate plastics and cardboard). That said, the more rural the dump, the more likely they'll tell you to take what you want out of it.
This. This here is exactly why I love you guys. Your content is ACTUALLY made for the benefit of the watcher, not for the money it might bring, and teacing people how to find, understand, and more importantly, buy their hardware is the BIGEST step a person can do to become "tech savy" enough to not bother their resident "IT guy" for random bullshit. Plus, the ever increasing love I see in everyone on the team about technology makes me enjoy every video more and more. Thank you all at LMG for your work, keep it up!
You should do these videos more often because I often forget what good GPU are good for the prices because there is so many variables that change over time
One reason why prices are kept up on the high end, of Nvidia in particular, is because smaller businesses and freelancers buy the 4090 class GPUs. It is MUCH cheaper than buying their "professional" lineup, including easier to get a hold on. (RTX 6000 ADA has double VRAM of 48GB, but cost $6800 for 4090 performance) This is why the 4090s were sold out immediately at launch.
This. The cold truth is Nvidia owns the professional space, and even if you want to dabble, your going to be using Nvidia. Cuda comes to mind. Yes there are other things can do similar workloads, but they are at best half the speed on a comparable AMD card. Even in the high end hobbyist space its going to be Nvidia for the same reason. The Titans where effectively non validated professional cards, a perfect 'budget' option at a half or a third the price. Gee, wonder why those got killed off. All you have to do is look at anyone doing freelance/independent art: they can probably use 18-22GB VRAM without trying that hard. So 4090. And if your looking at animation, well 10 minutes is 18000 frames GPU#0 runs frames 1-9000, GPU#1 runs 9001-18000 and the time to combine the two is a rounding error in the render time of a single frame. So how many 4090s do you have, Ill take the lot.
The most comprehensive way to compare general GPU performance across generations is the Tom's Hardware GPU hierarchy. It has results for different resolutions and settings too.
I held onto my RX 480 until 6 months ago but I straight refused to pay the absurd prices during the pandemic. Then I grabbed a 6700xt over the holidays for $360, which was a great price at that point. It sucks, but it is what it is. You don't have to give in and pay these absurd prices.
I had the same card and went with a 6700 because the XT had three fans that wouldn’t fit in my case. I was holding on to that 480 for dear life. Still a good card. Carried me through the GPU apocalypse.
Scrapyard Wars will forever be my favorite segment created. I've rewatched it more times than any other TH-cam content, outside of music videos, abridged series or particular guides.
Nvidia's recent pricing strategy has turned me into a second-hand market only GPU buyer. I am 1.5 years behind in terms of game backlog and I will likely stay 1 generation behind, or more, for the foreseeable future. I got a cheap used 3080 Ti and I plan on using it for at least another 3 years.
@@THE-X-ForceI got a Palit GamingPro for 550 €, it's limited to 360W but it's about as much as I am willing to bare as far as power usage for a GPU goes. Generally 3080 Tis hover around 600-650€ in my country.
Scrapyard wars was an awesome series. I would love to see scrappy competition content again on the channel. Now that you guys are larger, maybe you could have two teams design, build, and brand a pc component, such as a radiator, in 48 hours, fully leveraging the equipment and talent you've acquired.
That defeats the purpose. The 0original purpose was to show you dont need to buy the latest and greatest to have a good gaming experience. That you can go used and be perfectly fine. Especially for those that are new to the custom pc world.
@@lurch789 the thing is, usually the higher efficiency psus use more reliable components also. I agree the actual "gold" rating means nothing important to most people though. I would be nice to actually determine which psus are cheap and have great reliability (but not necessarily efficiency).
The same thing goes with modern video game launches…. I hope the community can work together like this for bad video game launches to help bring the life back to gaming
I bought a 6700xt from a data center that was selling them at $300 a pop. Card hasn’t failed me at all and the improvements over my 1660 were so worth it. I got off eBay and took a bit of searching but you’re right they definitely have good deals if you find the right ones
I feel like GPUs stay relevant now longer than they ever did before. Games just aren't pushing new GPU sales like they used to. I've been using my 2080ti founder's edition since I bought it right at release, and at five years old now it still does everything I need it to do. Without some kind of must-play game that my card can't run well, I just don't see any reason to replace it.
The absolute top end does show differences, but if you are willing to decrease the graphics slightly from Ultra/High to Medium you can easily game on an older system. I remember back in the early 2000s when you basically needed to upgrade yearly
The console ports aren't as exciting visually as when someone made a game to showcase a graphics engine so they can try to sell the graphics engine. Last big one was Crysis.
It's probably due to most game developers optimizing for consoles. Once the next gen drops all those "great" 8GB cards, that somehow cost more than a 8GB card did in 2016, are going to become potato class.
I follow some repair channels, and I keep hearing that a lot of RTX 20 series cards are having high failure rates with memory (especially from Northwestrepair, which specializes in graphics cards), but some models of memory are clearly having far worse failure rates than others, so if you can figure out what type of memory a 20 series card has, and check to see if it's one of the ones with a high failure rate first, then that's a great idea. You should definitely avoid buying cards with memory chips which are known to have very high failure rates, especially from an old series like the 20 series, because it seems to be more a matter of when, not IF the memory modules are going to fail. Replacing the memory is possible, but it's generally too expensive to be worth it on older cards.
Happened to me when i bought 2070S (Asus ROG) back when it was current gen, got VRAM failure out of the box, micron manufactured chips. Got replacement card and vram was again micron and this one is still going strong. But in general i feel like RTX20 is too much of a failure lottery to justify buying it nowdays without warranty.
You can often fix the fan. Just pull the fan blade off (carefully), clean for dust, and put it back on the fan motor. It's not all fans, you can do this to, but I saved my sons GTX 780 TI, some years ago, using this method. We also used a few bucks on sewing machine oil for the bearing.
The only problem I see is that sellers in the used GPU market are still trying to bake-in the covid premium and are a little deluded with their prices. Same is true in the used car market, which is why I'm putting off my project car idea until next year. The good news in both cases is that sanity is returning and prices are coming down, but it'll take some time before we're back to normal.
Hey Linus nice work here. I had never bought a second hand gps until about 6 month ago but with the crazy state of the gpu market I took the plunge and bought a second hand 3090 $900 aud (about 600 usd) and it’s been working great and still out performs anything new that I could have bought for that
This is how I upgraded to a 3090. Lucky in my area that card prices have really come down. Seeing 3060 consistently at $200. Also saw the same thing where the used Radeon pricing is still hugging new price.
Same. I purposefully waited, knowing the 40 series was coming out AND that Ethereum miners would be getting screwed over soon. The two combined made my upgrade from a 2080 to a 3080 Ti, with water cooling, cost less than the 2080 when I got it brand new! Had I waited more, it would have gone down even further, but it was JUST at the right spot I felt okay with everything, and the seller babied the card.
I appreciate you guys continuing to suggest used parts. Just because something isn't brand new doesn't mean that it's trash. I really wish more folks understood that. It's the throw away everything approach that is making us poor and causing environmental issues
I dont think people have issues with used items, people have issues with scammers. Theres just sooooooooooo many scammers in the used market thats its not even worth dealing with.
@@Dempig Also, the need for validation or security that an item works. Having the buyer protection of eBay or being able to see that a product works in person is the bare minimum to want to buy used tech, for me.
I got heavily into video gear during Covid and while there aren’t any additional hurdles like scalping and insane price gauging, camera bodies, lenses, lights…..are simply adding up veeeeeery quickly. I’ve been buying about 90% used and with some extra work and not insisting on getting things right friggin now, I’ve saved thousands and had zero bad experiences. Another great source - at least for some items - is commercial sites that sell refurbished products only. In most cases it’s not as cheap as buying from a private seller but you often get up to 3 years warranty and still save 20-30% compared to MSRP.
Agree for camera kit. The company is buying FUJI X-T3’s for like £150 used… that do the job. They’re so cheap they’re almost disposable compared to a Nikon D5 at 4,5,6k a pop + lenses. Used is the way
Anyone agree with the fact that since Linus stepped down... he's been given a lot more freedom to star in awesome videos like this? The writing and editing is awesome, as always (in my opinion)!
Just an idea and I’m not sure if ya’ll thought of this already, but what about including sound results with mark bench in the future? Some people may wanna see sound data as well to see how loud fans can get and stuff like that. Just an idea.
The craziest thing for me was a year ago almost, I grabbed a Gigabyte 3070 Gaming OC as (used, 1 week old). But the thing was mint, even the packaging, for way less than what the price was new at the time. I never asked questions--HWiNFO said it was/is a LHR version though; maybe that had something to do with it. But I've had it married to a 5800X with 64GB DDR4 and a couple of NVMe as well as SATA SSDs, game at 1440p. I've been a happy gal. My niece got my old GTX 1080 and 2700X with a 970 Evo 500GB and Crucial 1TB, 16GB RAM. She's a happy one too. xD
got myself gtx 1080TI used on 2019 from fb marketplace and it was modified by owner - added water cooling and i bougth it for around 350$ and you know whaat? best decision ever, still rocking!!!!
@@killergg0072 As an A380 owner, I’d suggest you probably go with something else. The drivers still underperform in DX9-11, and in DX12 it doesn’t perform well enough in demanding titles to take advantage of Intel’s decent RT architecture. I’d go up to the next tier or go used.
As an owner of rx6600, I really love it's perfomance, even tho I undervolt it too hard as I love seeing max 70° on it's hotspot, it still manages to get like 130fps in 1080p medium in RE4, and 144+ with fsr2 quality. Esports titles manage 240+fps obviously, but I still think that 6600xt would've been quite a bit better@@killergg0072
I used a GTX 960 all the way up to halfway through 2020, my RTX 3070 (I have the same model Linus grabbed off the shelf!) is going to live a long life. Growing up poor teaches you to make the most of what components you can get your hands on.
I used a 970 until a few months before the 4000 series launch, when stores were selling off their 3000 stock. I paid less than MSRP for a 3080 12GB, still more than it's now on eBay, but I hope it lasts me 7 to 8 years too
Bring back scrapyard wars! I just rewatched all the old episodes over the last week and it was just awesome! I guess your lab could also make the benchmarking way better and maybe capture other metrics such as quality of the parts (e.g. PSU). Would definitely be interesting to see what's possible now
It would be better if you could wait for a bigger upgrade. The 3080 10gb is less than 10% weaker than a 3080ti, and the 3070ti is less than 20% weaker than the 3080 10gb, so your 3070ti to 3080ti upgrade will be quite underwhelming. Also, even 12gb of vram might be insufficient soon (while 8gb is already insufficient now), so you should wait for a good deal on a second hand 4080/4090. Amd 16gb cards are also not a big jump in performance, unless you get the 7900xt/xtx.
I got a 1070Ti for $100 a handful of months back when I needed a holdover GPU for my system. Not only was it handling 1440p gaming without an issue, but in most games it was doing so at fairly high settings (obviously things like ray tracing aren't gonna be in the cards). While I would generally not advise pairing 1440p gaming with a $100 GPU, it was still shockingly capable and for someone looking to do, say, 1080p gaming without spending too much that's quite a deal and so far below what comparable performance would cost new that it's not even worth considering the comparison because even if you ended up buying used, having the card break and no warranty, and having to buy the same GPU again, you'd still basically come out even. The above failure is also unlikely. I've bought a lot of GPUs for myself, roommates, etc, and of the last dozen, nine were used. I had two failures of those cards over the years, one new one where capacitative paste ended up on traces and crashing the card (easily fixable once I figured it out) and used one that I bought deeply discounted ($90 for an RX 390 when they were typically twice that much), that was admitted up front to have been run very hard, and still gave 3 years of constant use before quitting. Buying used really is a good way to go if you're not an idiot - avoid obvious signs of problems or sellers that don't accept returns and test thoroughly upon receipt and that's all there is to it.
I still use a 1080 8GB for 1440p, undervolted for reduced temperature and energy consumption. But compared to 2 years ago every GPU is cheap, and if you consider new features and inflation it is similar to the last 15 years. Like in 1973 Kawasaki Z1 was a hell of a Bike, 50 years later a Z1000SX costs 10x as much but increases FPS by only 50%...
@@baronvonslambert I managed 1080p gaming in most modern titles in a 3GB HD7950 I had a bit back. Literally everything but Star Citizen at least ran, usually not half bad! FSR made a huge difference too, letting me get pretty respectable framerates in games like Horizon Zero Dawn. 1440p is gonna be rough on 4GB in modern titles but 1080p would give such a card NO trouble. All this noise about how "games only run now if you have 12 quadrillion terrabytes of VRAM, for 720P!" is just wildly overblown. Yes, if you absolutely max out settings, AND use ray tracing maxed out, and don't use DLSS or FSR, maybe that new 2023 game can suck down more than 8GB of VRAM, but no one needs to run games like that. Even new games can usually be fit into 4GB or 6GB of VRAM if just set up reasonably by the user.
My 1080 is still going strong after 6 years, plays pretty much most games well enough 1440p, though now with a 1600p UW it struggles a bit on new titles, but tbh for me personally as long as it's 30/40fps + (Ofc 60 is the ideal!) for a single player game that's doable and enjoyable enough experience that isn't worth paying £900+ on a new gen card.
I'm kind of disappointed Linus didn't touch on the GTX 1080. They are going for $100, and offer some of the best bang-for-buck on the used market. The reality is many people still have 1080p monitors and not many games support ray tracing (and it's usually a minor visual improvement anyway). DLSS is a great technology, but just not that useful if you're already comfortably running the games you want at the framerate and resolution you want. I don't play many super recent and demanding titles, but I have yet to play a game that the 1080 doesn't run fairly comfortably. Horizon Zero Dawn, Control, and Sons of the Forest run fine. The GTX 1080 is an option worth considering for many gamers, at the very least as a temporary card while waiting to save up and find another better deal later.
1080 is too old to recommend, nearing 8 years of age and if your main goal is to have a temporary card just use integrated graphics or a very-very cheap GPU, no need to waste $100 on something you're going to get rid of
@@TypicalBlox The biggest downside is the power draw. If you pan to keep the card for a while, spending a bit more for a newer midrange card will balance out the upfront cost fairly quickly. Before I bought my 1060 I did extrapolate running cost compared to the 480/580, and by now going for the slightly more expensive and slightly slower card has more than made up for it. In fact, with my usage pattern so far, getting a 1080 would've been cheaper than a RX 480
@@HappyBeezerStudios Listen I love the 10 series I truly do believe it was the greatest GPU's ever made however I'm shocked people are still recommending anything other than the 1080ti in 2023, it's time to move on people unless you get it at a crazy low price there are other newer options for not that much more and you unlock new features, years more of support and warranty and such. This is like saying that a 2014 iPhone is better than a low range 2023 Samsung.
I think a new 6700xt is really the ticket if you're on a budget right now. It can be had for $300 and with recent driver updates it's about between the 3070 and 3080. Seems like a no brainer to me if you're just gaming.
Agreed. I grabbed a 6750 xt for $350. 67xx series are the best bang for the buck at the moment. Used marked is quite risky with the flood of mining farm GPUs.
Another option is buying refurbished Quadro workstation cards cards. They have much better build quality, more VRAM and lower power consumption. They also run the latest RTX drivers.
My 1080ti has served me really well, but it's starting to get a little long in the tooth in 1440p. I'd like to upgrade, but the only cards I can justify the price for are too close to my current card in performance. It's a bummer!
I bought a "broken" B350 board for $20, looked at the signs of how dead it was, and took a small gamble to see if the person who sold it just didn't get it to boot for some reason. Which is what happened. That was a glorious day as a 15 year old who could barely afford a CPU and ram. (I literally had to ask a friend for a penny because I was missing it...pretty funny now that I'm working XD
Buying second hand is really good and for someone like me with a limited budget, sometimes it's the only choice. The problem comes from the fact that not every city has a good second hand market, I live in a relatively big city in Spain and the second hand market is filled with either really old and bad computers, prices that are so close to new that you might just buy it new, and just a lack of actually good things to buy. It's a shame because it seems like a very affordable and environmentally friendly to upgrade your PC, but sadly there are many things that are just outside of one's control
I would absolutely love to see scrapyard wars again by the way. I just love this kind of content it's like a drug to me xD The satisfaction of getting a great deal on something or thinking up clever alternatives to save up cash and still end up with a cool rig, I crave it so so much !
The same thing applies to laptops too. I was able to find RTX 3070 laptops for under 1000 freedom dollars, and RTX 2080 laptops go for as low $700. And if 2021 happens again (hopefully it won't), laptops won't be scalped to the Sun thanks to their more consistent supply and demand and the lack of any real gain from mining on laptops.
The same applies for nearly any piece of tech. I've bought cards, laptops, HDDs, SSDs, RAM, MB+CPU kits, whole PCs and servers. I don't even use ebay as it's prohibitively expensive. As long as you are careful and patient, you can score a lot of great deals.
@@tenekevi Oh yeah, totally. Our family has bought so much used tech. We got a Wii U with all the accessories and 2 games for ~130 dollars, snagged an old HP WMR headset for 50 dollars, etc. Used tech is awesome.
I love this video so much. Thank you Linus for advocating for gamers to buy used cards. The more we buy used, the less cards get manufactured and sold for $$$$$ (jacking up prices) and the less cards end up in eWaste. Get out there and support your fellow gamer by getting a bargain, and helping someone else upgrade. It’s the circle of life!
GPUs don't work indefinitely. I'd also love to buy used cars with 200k miles on them but they don't tend to last me very long. At the end of the day, unfortunately most used GPUs are coming from miners or scammers. I'd rather not support the very same people who put us in this situation in the first place by buying secondhand mining GPUs. The miners fucked over consumers making us pay a premium for new sku GPUs and now you want to pay them more money for sloppy seconds lol? No thanks.
@@pwd1134ood point, except for the fact that you're not paying full price for a used gpu, mining card or not. If that's not the case for you or your area, then I'm sorry, but sucks to sucks
Got a 3060 (highest tier I could fit in the case I wanted) for $283 for a mini-itx build. Found a new motherboard for $180 with a 4 year warranty. (On NewEgg sadly, but I couldn't beat that deal anywhere else) Deals are out there using Linus's tips.
One way to add pressure is to exit the range of gpus you are used to buying. Ive been used to buying near top end at 5-600+$ but then started to keep them longer 4+ years instead of 2-3 and now moving toward low to mid range in my next purchase where I had bought R290 and Vega 64 that were near top range Im now looking at low to mid range 7600-7700 (when it comes out) but still getting a good perf increase vs the previous gpu. Its not uncommon to see a low end gpu beat a 4 year old high end now and even the lowly 7600 beats the Vega 64 in most cases. Its just not worth 1000$ or more... much more in some cases for a one time gpu purchase.
yeah, I have Vega56 and I have similar issue, especial because HBM memory give even more compute than 7600... hopefully ROCm still support it (not officialy)
The upper midrange cards were always great for price/performance. So things like the 8800 GT, HD 4870, GTX 560 Ti, HD 6870, GTX 660 Ti, HD 7850, GTX 970, RX 480 and so on. Obviously depends a bit on how long you use the card, a 1080 Ti has proven to be great value for money.
@@HappyBeezerStudios Only if you compare it to todays prices. But it didnt stay long at msrp and started the upward move in prices for high end. In Canada the 1080ti was at 1000$ for a long time. I got the Vega 64 instead for about half that. Great value for me is mid range and you upgrade less often. I saw my smarter than me bud keep his 970 for 6 years. He upgraded it to a 6700xt recently and was good about playing at high settings instead of ultra with no real visual difference. One thing Linus should mention is that gpus have a lifespan of about 5-8 years. I wouldnt buy used that didnt have warranty left myself but any gpu thats 5+ years old could be on its last legs.
@@pax256 I'm running midrange cards as well. from a HD 4870 to a GTX 660 ti to a 1060, and with my upgrade cycle so far a 5060 would be right at it. gives enough performance for pretty much all games at release and last long enough afterwards.
@@HappyBeezerStudios Ya Im thinking for 1440p high settings the 7600 or the 4060 may be the way to go for 2 years. My vega 64 died after 5 years which is why think would have been smarter to get the 970 back then... 8 Gb vram is not that bad. Im gonna check some more tests after the 29th and see whats on sale in July.
I kindly request the production team to consider creating another installment of Scapyard Wars. As previously mentioned, there is a promising opportunity to explore new deals and bargains. Moreover, the inclusion of the latest generation of computer hardware, such as Ryzen and other notable advancements, would undoubtedly enhance the show's overall appeal and captivate a wider audience.
I have a 2060s that i bought about a year ago, it was a mining card so the fans do rattle when at higher rpm but i still have one year of warranty on it, card works fine and doesn't overheat and ive been enjoying it
I got a used Red Devil Ultimate 6900 XT last August for $600, Amazon listed it as "Acceptable" and it was in immaculate condition. It was not maxing out my 4K 120Hz display when We Love Katamari was released on Steam so I looked for an upgrade. Per Techpowerup, only the 7900 XTX, 4080, and 4090 offered meaningful (to me) performance uplift so I thought it would be another generation before I could afford that level of performance but I was able to get a used Red Devil 7900 XTX for $764, again listed by Amazon as "Acceptable." The card itself was perfect but it was missing the RGB cable. Gave me 40% higher Timespy GPU score and maxed out my display for Katamari.
I feel like we did vote with our wallets. Nvidia saw massive drop in demand from the consumer market, but AI companies have taken over that demand so it was for nothing anyway. This was even addressed on a WAN show, why was it ignored in this context?
@@SaltyMikan Yeah, I don't get it either man. Obviously they are going to try to cover every GPU and for a while now they have been critical of Nvidia. I don't see the shilling. I see him getting review copies and him and his team being honest on the quality of the GPUs.
Still using my 2080 Super I bought used during the pandemic. Not a great deal by today's standards (spent the AUD equivalent of $440USD) but at the time it was better than anything else I could see. And it's just so disheartening seeing all the GPU releases recently that are worse value than my scalping-era deal.
Yeah absolutely I don't really find used market very appealing with all the risks and savings of, oftentimes, only ~20% compared to brand new. Especially with the potential of prices for new cards dropping more within the next few months. Would be super bitter to buy a used GPU now and see its price beaten next month
Please bring back scrapyard wars! It was not only so much fun to watch but was extremely helpful to those of us trying to build/upgrade on a budget. When I started planning my first build my first step was to watch all of scrapyard wars. Gave me such a good idea of what to expect from the used market at that time. The only reason why I (and I also think other fans) haven't been harassing you as much to reboot it is because you are too recognizable in that field now. But now you have minions to do it! You could even use the lab to not only make it more fair (thinking of all the overclocks that worked on one outlet but not another) but to make it more educational. When someone buys a part that doesn't work the lab can look it over, identify what is wrong with it, and explain warning signs so we know what to check for when shopping used.
Would you guys ever be interested in making a video detailing the differences in laptop A-series GPUs vs GeForce GPUs when it comes to rendering, gaming, video editing, and simulation performance? Maybe in a laptop like the HP Z Book Studio G10? It has the same chassis for both performance options regarding choices from Nvidia's 40 Series GPUs and A Series GPUs
The chips often have different wattages depending on the laptop so it would be too inconsistent. Just look at reviews of the laptop you're considering.
I'm pretty sure one of the goals of Labs is to do round up type videos. Laptop GPU performance is not as simple as "which GPU does it have?" as a lower tier GPU in one system can outperform a higher tier one in another depending on what other design decisions were made
Just before the 30-series launched, EVERYONE without exceptions said "safe your money, wait for 30-series, its gonna be so much better and at a better price/performance ratio. I baught a 2070 Super just before that launch für 300 something bucks BRANDNEW and it was the best decision ever. Could have sold it for 900 two weeks later but didnt. Currently got 2 PCs, one with my trusty 1080ti and one with the 2070 Super, both holdin up very well👍
Picked up a used RX 6900XT for $725cad (approx. $545usd) on Kijiji last month and It's been running great. If you encounter a bad fan or just loud under-performing fans, don't be afraid to deshroud your card and strap 2x 120 or 3x 90 fans. Just need a pack of zip ties and you can optionally buy a Micro 4-Pin GPU fan adapter cable so that the fans are controlled by the GPU's fan controller. Snagging a deal on a 2-3 pack of T30 fans would be amazing for a deshroud. This is assuming you have the space in your case.
As someone who has wanted to upgrade ever since 2021, I am yet to proceed with the purchase. My 1080 is barely holding on at this point, and while features such as AV1 are very tempting, the pricing - at least in central Europe, is somewhat of an issue. So I'll continue waiting until the 1080 gives out.
@@KYSMO Depends what they use it for. I'm on my first GPU still, 1060 (6GB). Star Citizen is a struggle....but thats Star Citizen. Suits my current needs alright but Destiny 2 isn't the most demanding game. 1080p, 60fps (most of the time ah). I can see how a heavier load, multiple monitors, higher resolution might give them that impression. I've been wanting to upgrade since 2020, as a self present for finishing uni but the value just isn't there
Its still one of the best performing gamer cards out there, maybe the wear and tear is getting to it, but thats probably fixable, or your drivers are messed up
"ever since 2021" ??? I used my Radeon 7970oc since 2013! By the way it mined ethereum for at least 5 years 24/7 and still is absolutely perfect. I have no idea what you did to your 1080 to make it "barely hold on". I got 3060ti yesterday for 250 eur with a proper "trustMeBroo" 1 year warranty from some local reseller. I don't even mind all the dog hair in it's cooler that came for free. And chances are, this 3060ti also has mined some shitcoin every single day of it's existence.
Is this the guy who make the argument that the 4060ti had it's merits. He should be required to disclose all they payola he has taken from these companies. Full disclosure.
Honestly, 20-series Nvidia cards are a pretty good deal if you don't care about Ray Tracing or the massive performance hit it incurs for making your game look barely any better. DLSS still works and that's basically free FPS. Worth it if you can get one at a good price.
I honestly wouldn't mind a 2060, but I'm already on a 1060, and the jump isn't that huge. If we exclude oem-only rebrands, I've bought a new card every 3 gens. From a HD 4870 (GTX 260 equivalent) to a GTX 660 Ti to a GTX 1060, so the next card by that pattern would be a RTX 5060. If that performs around a 4070 Ti/4080 level it would also stay with the same performance growth.
TPU is really good for a quick performance indication. He showed it but didn't mention it. Weird. Also, the 2080Ti is holding its value much stronger because it has 11GB of RAM compared to most other cards that have "just" 8GB. The only other card coming close in price is the 3060 12GB, but it performs quite a bit worse.
Few months ago I decided to upgrade my 970 and bought 2070 for 200€. Even though it was with faulty fans which I didn’t notice during testing, I’m happy with it and eventually turned out even better: I just de-shrouded it, cleaned heat sink, changed a thermal compound and put 2x120mm case fans directly to GPU. To me for 1080p 60Hz gaming it would be enough for a few years. Hopefully when I have to upgrade GPUs won’t cost a fortune
I still have mine from 2019, with mixed settings it's even good enough for 60fps WQHD, or some games run still extremely well and I can seriously get 120+fps with max settings. Have some old stuff I could run at 4k but that's obviously not representative.
I have such a bad experience with second hand electronics, that I will always buy new. Everything worked at first, but issues always started showing later - instability and other weird behavior. Also new AMD RX 6800XT is not much more expensive than used RTX 3080 with similar performance and 16GB memory for 1440p gaming.
I mean, you remain honest with us when analysing those products, thoroughly informing and explaining us everything we have to know about this gaming field, give us nice advice, recognising when you fail, etc. All this and is it your fault? As if it were your fault the existence of scrappers or people who don't know what they are buying because they are too lazy to at least understand what they are buying or who cannot restrain themselves from buying overpriced gpus. Yikes!!
Nvidia is a trillion dollar company and the majority of their profit does NOT come from the average consumer, it comes from AI companies, corporations and trading. Not much you can do about that lmao
While I would _love_ to keep waiting it out...there are a lot of newer titles that my R9 290 just cannot run anymore, and with used products, you _never_ know what you're getting. I think AMD's prices are a bit more fair. It's so hard to want to buy a GPU right now, but it's also so hard to NOT want to buy a GPU right now.
I'm in the same boat, I still use my R9 390 but it's really starting to show it's age. It held up amazingly though for a really long time and I'm really glad I bought it over the GTX 970 back in 2015 but it's time to say goodbye. Honestly I might just switch to the new Intel Cards, I'm curious what they have to offer
i still have my old R9 270x that i overclocked. loved that card. but my GTX 1080. is just a beast. nvidia is my go to for graphics cards and AMD for CPU's all day.
![ILLSLICK - WINTER IS COMING [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dwTMeM1zIhQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Now that you have a new old GPU, why not test it out by playing Stellaris free this weekend. Check it out on steam or at lmg.gg/StlLTT starting on the 22nd.
Stellaris is good trust me
I'll be playing Stellaris with my Rx 580 from Aliexpress
Thanks for making it a short video
If you connect 3 1030 cards together, you will get rtx 3090
i personally dont need a 3080
Now I have to prevent forest fires AND out of control GPU prices?!?!?
@dmoneyindustry7428veri goood
Fuck, that's a lot of responsibility.
I just want to set the world on fire
Yes, and it's not that hard
@@Skagzi1la I don't want to start a flame in your heart.
Linus : ONLY YOU can fix pricing.
Gamers : We absolutely agree, Linus.
Also gamers : Proceed to buy 4070 because it is 10$ below MSRP.
Don't forget about gamers asking r/pcmr if the purchase was good AFTER they bought the product
Players: You're right.
Graphics Card Manufacturers: We're cutting production in half
Players: sad pikachu noise
Also Linus: Proceeds to hype up the next cashgrab from Nvidia.
@@brutallica2944 because the hype is about performance when the price is unknown? Where tf does he hype the bad products from Nvidia recently? Western customers who blindly buy overpriced shit is why we are in this situation.
@@brutallica2944 literally that's not even what happened. and they're always transparent if its a sponsored video - try again
This is exactly the reason why a scrapyard wars reboot is a good idea!
A recent WAN show they said it’s back on the table.
@@krunkjunk saw that, super excited
@@krunkjunkooooOOOO
I hope they give themselves really limited budgets (may three different tiers?) such as 250, 500 and 750$USD.
@@yvan2563 People might say that 250 isn't limited for a budget but for an average person it really is
I’m usually not a big fan of buying used electronics, but with the crazy MSRP of GPUs these days, I almost feel morally obligated to do so if I was building a new system.
The issue is, it's kind of not all too great depending on location. Where I'm from I can get e.g. a 6800XT for 440€ not including shipping, instead of a new one for 550€. This also is for at least 1-2 year old cards. The risk is probably low on sites like e-bay but 110€ savings still doesn't feel like beating the system.
Also what do people think what the seller did? Buying used cards for high prices can't break the new GPU market. The people selling their GPU are most likely buying new themselves. The new market dictates the price for used hardware in most situations.
Lastly despite the low risk and evident price advantage, the used market is such a tiny fraction, it hardly changes anything. You see some offers for days or weeks online (similar to above example) while companies like mindfactory sell thousands of cards weekly in countries like germany.
@@brohvakiindova4452 Re: "people selling their GPU are most likely buying new"
Yes that's true, but if you're buying theirs second hand it means *YOU* aren't buying new. A similar argument can be made about e-waste, if we both buy new and toss the old ones, that's 2 cards gone to waste. If you buy a new one, I buy yours, and I toss mine, that's only one card gone to waste.
The only new GPU Id buy is an Arc 770
@@almc8445 True, but come on we all know 95% of consumer graphics cards are sold in prebuilt systems.
I wasn't trying to say it's pointless to buy used, just not THAT significant for many other factors like people not bothering with selling their old hardware to have backup and then really having E-waste sitting there because after some years it's not worth selling anymore or being too lazy etc.
That being said maybe my critique is stupid because it could become more significant, if more people would do so.
@@brohvakiindova4452 you don't have to aim to save money when buying used, I usually try to get a much better performing card for the same money.
I hope they do another scrapyard wars. I have wanted to see them do a complete streaming setup. Get streamers involved and judge by quality of the live stream rather than just raw performance.
It'll have to be other team members though, Linus is too famous
It also makes sense when their company is so much bigger now. They can have some of their lesser known employees buy parts without risk getting recognized the same way as would be the case for Linus. Then Linus could be the commentator for the video / judge regarding which team that wins.
@@irispettsonYes !
Same, now that the absolute dark ages that was 2020-2022 is now long gone.
On a recent Wan show Linus said he thinks they will soon
i'm still using a 1080ti that i got with a full machine, keyboard, and monitor for $1k, while the card alone at the time was the same price. easy deals.
still using my 1070 👍
1080ti team, still able to play any AAA game and VR, wont upgrade until next gen probably I am hoping for a boycot from gamers and actually drop the gpu prices
7 years of age and it STILL is on performance charts.
I got a 1080 just for the looks right before the 30 series launch,
and it eventually went in my daily driver machine during covid because nothing else was available (affordable) at that time.
Is it odd that card is still my goal to get? I view it as the golden boy card.
still using 1070ti that I got for $300 back then
_Important note:_ when you go searching for your ideal used card, it's probably a good idea to _not_ buy anything _older_ than an RTX 2000 series GeForce or a 6000 series Radeon (yes 6000 not 5000). Those are the first Nvidia and AMD generations respectively to fully support DirectX 12.2 (AKA DirectX 12 Ultimate), which is the DX version implemented by the current gen consoles. That means if you have one of those cards or newer then your card is sure to support all upcoming games for a _long_ time.
for at least 6 years sure
5700/xt and vega 56 and 64 are amazing value for the money though, there's nothing comparable otherwise. There's an ebay sold listing of a vega 64 for 64$. Techpowerup relative performance has vega 64 tied with the 2060/1080. 3060 is only 20% ahead
Those kind of details Linus should be putting in his video, not that you shouldn't meet seller at midnight by the tree
Looks at 1660 Ti laptop I got in 2020 instead of 2060? 2080? Whelp, not much I can do about that. Another reason to look forward to a framework laptop in my future
@@bipbop3121 the 1660ti is technically a 2000 series card so you are fine actually. Same way the 750 and 750ti were technically 900 series cards
I appreciate that Linus acknowledges his privileged position as a wealthy industry insider. It makes it a lot easier to take him seriously as someone that's actually considered the position the rest of us are in. A lot of people in that position just stop acknowledging it because it's awkward for them to admit that they're not directly speaking for their audience, but when they leave it unspoken it always leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
EDIT: Before anyone else comes into this accursed space to tell me that I'm "upset" or "pissed" about this, please point to the part of my comment that made you project your own emotional volatility onto me, then don't make a comment about it. Instead why don't you volunteer at your local mutual aid group, or maybe beat your head against a brick wall? Both would be more productive uses of your time.
Yeah pretty rare for tech youtubers
Through all the growth I never thought that he totally lost touch to his viewers. This and scrapyard wars and even both "pay for 4K" videos show that.
They're not supposed to "speak for the audience" and frankly, it shouldn't need to be said. Their job is to show us how it works, maybe provide some different perspectives to consider. Nothing more. They're not supposed to tell us how to feel.
But it's irrelevant. He's right - the market determines the prices...
The only ones to blame are the consumers.
Getting pissed at LTT (privileged or not) for saying that would just show how spoiled/immature/entitled/karenish the person would be.
The irony here is that LTT IS trying to change the market pricing... But not by yelling at manufacturers (which would not work). He's educating the market.
@@davidfidler8761 I'm not talking about getting pissed at anyone, I'm explaining why Linus's attitude is helping him keep people engaged and listening to him. If he wasn't like that I probably wouldn't be pissed, I just wouldn't be watching. Pretty straightforward consumer behaviour I would have thought.
Also if market prices are anyone's fault then that fault lands on both consumers and suppliers. It's absurd to say that the market is only influenced by actors on one side.
I’ve been telling this to people forever. It’s the same for anything. If the prices are ridiculous, don’t buy it
*Dies from hunger*
Try telling that to apple fan
@@vinothkmr Pathetic, just don't die from hunger, you can survive on half a heart
Medical costs in america. Hmm...
The issue is that Linus is wrong here in this case #1 GPUs are not as elastic as we all would like. The market is captured by only a few players and they are required to complete a task people want, so unless people are going to stop playing games not buying GPUs is a hard sell.
The other thing is that Nvidia in particular wont drop prices they will just stop making GPUs for gaming and will just fully shift to AI Cards and drop the consumer GPU market altogether.
It sucks, but Linus is right I've been saying it for years. If you keep buying as they raise the prices, that's a thumbs up signal to keep raising prices. People buying up ALL the GPUs while they were at scalper prices was the biggest signal to GPU manufacturers from consumers that GPUs needed a massive MSRP increase, and that's now arrived.
When they priced the 2080ti at $1400 and still sold thousands they gave nvidia a green light to more or less charge what they like.
I feel like when I told people during covid that prices would never come back down because the sellers/manufacturers learned just how much money people were willing to spend I was laughed at
@@amicloud_yt - Those prices were so incredibly high because of crypto-mining, and this latest crypto-crash was followed by multiple crypto-currencies moving away from the traditional proof-of-work model in favor of something more efficient.
@@amicloud_yt Same. And I still get laughed at every time someone says AMD will come to the rescue, despite the repeating evidence that they always price just below Nvidia, and just below insanity is still insanity.
No, he’s not right. Nvidia doesn’t give a shit about if their gaming cards are selling because they’re cashing in on AI right now. AMD can price themselves just under nvidia’s ludicrous pricing because there’s no other competition. The pricing isn’t really coupled to demand, there are other factors going on right now.
This is why I can't wait for the labs website. Userbenchmark SUCKS, and yet it's still the most broad and exhaustive list of parts with a UI that lets you easily compare stuff. It really is a shame that you just cannot trust their data, because it's super useful. As much as "ohh you can't just give a single number to show all the performance, it doesn't tell the whole story", well... for people who don't know what they're doing, a single number at least gives *something* of a point of reference for if you wanna find out a 1650 isn't better than a 1080 because bigger number must be better (real story, I based a laptop purchase on this 4 years ago. agony)
UserBenchmarx trashes AMD with no due cause, they're such a joke other websites have banned their results and reviews from being referenced.
I love how they said a dual core i3 was a better buy than a i9 because it was the only way to tweak the numbers to make amd look bad
@@blunderingfool It's such a shame cause it honestly would be a great site if they were just honest. Ads aren't intrusive, UI makes it easy to compare things at a glance super fast then select something else to compare to fast all without scrolling, and has more detailed info underneath in a neat simple layout. On other sites I have to scroll all the way down to the bottom just to find actual benchmarks or a solid number to compare with. I honestly think UI is the sole reason they still pop up before any other search result. Even knowing how terrible they are I still find myself using it, only saying "Add 20% to the score if it's an AMD thing", because no other site replaces their convenience.
And yet all that is worthless because their data is just intentionally wrong. Praying LTT takes hints from their UI so we can finally just replace them completely and lay them to rest.
labs website seems to be a long project make take at least 6 months to role out first version of website, that is if they cover all the cards and all the systems and at least 20 gaming titles
@@QueueTeePies Hah! It just gets better. XD
The issue here is now if demand for the used GPUs goes up and increases the used prices. I’ve seen it happen across other 2nd hand products (not IT related) with much smaller audiences.
True, but at least it lessens demand for new cards, which might force them to lower their ridiculous prices on them.
Yeah, just Linus making this video will probably bump up second hand GPU prices
@@Clone683 Some people might laugh at that but it does happen, especially with someone as influential as Linus.
Well they are here in Quebec there’s only a 100$ difference in cad so 76 us
Agreed. I was looking at used prices but realised that a new RTX 3060 12GB was actually a pretty decent card for reasonable money new. If you want cheaper bang for buck then a VEGA 56 is a good bet.
As a 2080 ti owner myself, it is pretty insane what people are asking for used ones. It's a great card and she's never let me down, but 400 dollars is too much.
Probably due to the MSRP being like 1.2k I feel like it would be too painful to sell one at an actually reasonable price lol
Yup, 2080 ti owner are something, i was seeing some at 900-1000$ a year ago.
She? Dude.... its not a blow-up-doll
@@sprocket5526 its the same idea as calling a boat or car she
@@sprocket5526bruuh
It’s the same with the ps5 shortage. I couldn’t believe people were spending 1-2k for a ps5. That was absolutely outrageous.
Yeah and the people got mad at the scalpers. Wrong, get mad at the people buying it, or just be happy you live in a free market were supply an demand is at work. :)
Ive sold 7 of them myself that i bought at walmart this way just cuz idiots will buy them. Saved them $200 over anyone elses prices and made a chunk for myself
imagine spending 2k on a console with no games
@@majorchaos5000 lmao my cousin spent 1k I got my ps5 at retail a year later 💀
They can't even get rid of them now for considerably less than msrp because alot of them are out of warranty.
I'm not sure that the 2080 Ti being 'a lot closer to losing driver support than the 3080' is a huge deal right now in June 2023, Nvidia's driver version 536.23 released June 14 2023 still supports the GeForce 750 Ti, 750 and 745 which launched ~ February 18th 2014 according to Techpowerup. Over 9 years ago. 2080 Ti launched September 20 2018, so if we assume that it will be supported at least as long as the 700 series... it should still have new drivers into 2028, 5 more years from now (and counting).
The only problem is that Nvidia is taking that into account, as well. If less people are buying their brand-new cards, they'll start dropping support like crazy to try to force people to get a newer card.
I do whole-heartedly agree with that, though. The 2080 TI slaughters even a 3070 at everything that I ran on both cards: Forza Horizon 4&5, Halo Infinite, GTA V, Fortnite, Cyberpunk. That INCLUDES with ray-tracing turned on, but only because the 2080 TI was so over-powered to begin with that they re-introduced the xx90 series in the next generation.
Right now, I'm not going to assume anything that involves giving Nvidia the benefit of the doubt. In fact, I could see them doubling down on their crap. Let's be honest...would anybody be surprised if NVidia pulled a scumbag move like dropping support for anything older than 3000 series whenever 5000 series is released?
@@coolCoyote22 yes because they have always supported very old gpus
That logic is flawed once you factor in that manufacturers can use that to force consumers to buy new cards by not supporting old ones.
@@delomuy841 that's funny that you think NVIDIA gives a shit about what fanboys think or say.
IMPORTANT NOTE FOR BUYING USED CARDS! Even when the seller says the card was not used for mining please check the GPU-Z and compare the specs between your gpu and the manufacturer specs, my gpu was heavily underclocked and restoring by gpu bios flash restored its original clocks.
Actually that's good, Cuz it means ur card never took as much stress and its life is longer. Isn't it?
@@prateekpanwar646 that means without checking you would avoid questions like "why the fuck my speeds in games are not like I seen others get on TH-cam?"
@@Majorowsky1337yeah my 6700xt was used for mining, I was wondering why I was getting below 60 fps in everything.
I had to update drivers and tweak the settings, bios too lol
Now I'm over 100 FPS in most games in 1080p
Sorry to ask, what the difference in gpuz that i need to compare? I mean, how to know that the gpu had already used for mining?
@@izzatradzali1361 the seller usualy tells you he mined with it, otherwise of he didn't revert back to the original bios, there's no way to tell
The problem is even if the prices drop in some places around the world , a lot of us only dream to even see close enough prices to the o es shown in videos like this . Here in EU they are still pretty high and it looks like it is not gonna change anytime soon
Yeah. You can have an RTX 3060 or a PS5 in France. Who is seriously gonna buy an RTX3060 when you can have a PS5 that is literally more powerful for the same price. ☠️ GPU market is broken, except for some AMD cards
In india the prices have gone down really good but it took a serious time for that to happen. But I now have lost all my mojo for the high end gaming thnks to this pricing fiasco. There are priorities important than gaming and i dont see any point in investing $300 $400 just for entertainment. Bought a 1650 on a decent price and m very happy. Only do casual gaming now.
Oh they will change for sure… once China eats up Taiwan you will have to get used to 5000-7000€ cards for a while.
@@killkiss_son isn´t RTX3060 faster than a PS5? Google says, the Power of a PS5 is around a 2070.
@@atomkacke I have a 3060 *ti* and it performs worse than my PS5. It can barely play any games in 4K at 60 fps , especially with high graphics settings.
And it doesn't change the fact that it's the same price as a working console. You are not gonna play any games with just a 3060
Yes, bring back Scrapyard Wars! Maybe the new CEO will give Linus more time to actually do one, or at least have other people do it.
Having other people do it would be more likely with linus and luke as team captains or something as they get recognized too often
@@bradhaines3142 they stated its a time issue, it tears up their entire schedule too much nowadays
@@bradhaines3142 It actually isn't worn out - it's just something that would be best done once a year, or maybe whenever a hot new GPU or other hardware is released to show case the value of the second hand market.
One tip: Always use paypal/credit card or some sorta payment method to protect your purchase. Just ask the seller to send invoice through paypal for instance. If he complains about the 3% paypal fee. Just have him to add 3% fee and pay for it. If he refuses to do those badly, something might not be right and I'll walk way. (Aka: There might still be fake gpu/fake orignal invoices out there).
This is a good tip!
@@benadriel Also DO NOT SEND MONEY THROUGH PAYPAL FRIENDS. Normal paypal allows you to refund, but if you add him as a friend and send him the money though there, it´s quite possible is a scammer
glad more people understand this@@miguelangelmartinezcasado8935yep,
FIFINE USB Microphone Review 👉 th-cam.com/video/JAzcKCd4F0Q/w-d-xo.html 😀
Also quick tip, PayPal automatic fraud system only checks if the city is identical, not the full address. When that is the case and your seller sends a fkin letter to a random warehouse in your city from Hong Kong and PayPal denies your claim, then call them immediately. Pathetic worthless wannabe programmers
You have to appreciate that GPU prices have gotten so absurdly bad that it takes buying the previous generation's mid-tier second hand to start approaching what the high end retail prices used to be.
I remember when I first built my computer in 2008. First gen i7 920 and a 4870, it was right around the fastest computer you could build with consumer grade hardware. It was 300 bucks and was a basically top of the line card, I think I even bought it before the 4890 came out.
It's insane that a decent video card is now more than the entire cost of my first PC, monitors, keyboard and mouse included.
@@beeman4266it's insane that a low-midtier card costs $300+. You can go a step further and talk about CPU pricing as well. Sure these components do more and are more powerful, but that's expected since it's been 15 years! I think the days of a bargain are gone :/
part of it is inflation. prices are up 40% since 2010. part of it is also manufacturing. CMOS scaling is reaching its limit, so they need bigger sizes.
@elfrjzgreed all the way.
Even with inflation taken into account, everything from computer parts makers to grocery stores to hpusing markets, it shows that that the companies themselves skyrocleted the price far above the inflation line
To be fair you don’t turn 18 and get a license and immediately seek out a brand new car
Rather than buying a used card from a private seller you can also try a recycling centre as most will offer a warranty even if the gpu is out of the manufacturers warranty. As an example my current gpu came with a 1 year warranty and that was why I bought it as having had 2 gpu failures (my original from new and an eBay replacement) and as it was during the pandemic when prices were so high, a warranty was a must.
GPU recycling center?
Never seen a e-recycling center that sells directly to customers.
@@cloudofthought Was about to say that. The one here doesn't offer to sell any of the things. Even if the visitor wants to give money for still fully functional things, they don't allow it.
Should have said I'm in the UK so other countries may not have this, also by recycling centre I mean a company that specialises in e-waste as opposed to say your local dump (which could also be called a recycling center since they'll seperate plastics and cardboard).
That said, the more rural the dump, the more likely they'll tell you to take what you want out of it.
This is one of the best intros ive seen LTT make. Bravo!
This. This here is exactly why I love you guys. Your content is ACTUALLY made for the benefit of the watcher, not for the money it might bring, and teacing people how to find, understand, and more importantly, buy their hardware is the BIGEST step a person can do to become "tech savy" enough to not bother their resident "IT guy" for random bullshit.
Plus, the ever increasing love I see in everyone on the team about technology makes me enjoy every video more and more.
Thank you all at LMG for your work, keep it up!
You should do these videos more often because I often forget what good GPU are good for the prices because there is so many variables that change over time
One reason why prices are kept up on the high end, of Nvidia in particular, is because smaller businesses and freelancers buy the 4090 class GPUs. It is MUCH cheaper than buying their "professional" lineup, including easier to get a hold on. (RTX 6000 ADA has double VRAM of 48GB, but cost $6800 for 4090 performance) This is why the 4090s were sold out immediately at launch.
This.
The cold truth is Nvidia owns the professional space, and even if you want to dabble, your going to be using Nvidia. Cuda comes to mind. Yes there are other things can do similar workloads, but they are at best half the speed on a comparable AMD card.
Even in the high end hobbyist space its going to be Nvidia for the same reason. The Titans where effectively non validated professional cards, a perfect 'budget' option at a half or a third the price. Gee, wonder why those got killed off.
All you have to do is look at anyone doing freelance/independent art: they can probably use 18-22GB VRAM without trying that hard. So 4090. And if your looking at animation, well 10 minutes is 18000 frames GPU#0 runs frames 1-9000, GPU#1 runs 9001-18000 and the time to combine the two is a rounding error in the render time of a single frame. So how many 4090s do you have, Ill take the lot.
@@nickierv13 exactly. i simply cant use an AMD card for lack of support so i have to use the 4090 for work.
the only reason is really because people keep buying nvidia cards
Yea I randomly seen a 3070 box outside a room yesterday at work. No clue why because we all have terribly slow laptops
For sure AMD needs to fix their stuff so they can kick ass at things like rendering in Blender.
The most comprehensive way to compare general GPU performance across generations is the Tom's Hardware GPU hierarchy. It has results for different resolutions and settings too.
thank, easy and fast to read graph
I held onto my RX 480 until 6 months ago but I straight refused to pay the absurd prices during the pandemic.
Then I grabbed a 6700xt over the holidays for $360, which was a great price at that point.
It sucks, but it is what it is. You don't have to give in and pay these absurd prices.
Hey I had a 480 for years too! I upgraded to a 6600 for msrp tho. Couldn't get prices like that in my country. Great deal on that 6700xt
I had the same card and went with a 6700 because the XT had three fans that wouldn’t fit in my case. I was holding on to that 480 for dear life. Still a good card. Carried me through the GPU apocalypse.
Same here, but I bought a second hand gtx 1060 because 6gb because the price are more reasonable.
480 gang *SKRR SKKRRRR,* well shit there it goes hard crashing again because I forgot if the game was using unreal engine xD
sold 480 for $300 and wait for 3-4 months for the crypto crash and then proceed to buy rx 6800 for $320... what a time to be alive
Scrapyard Wars will forever be my favorite segment created. I've rewatched it more times than any other TH-cam content, outside of music videos, abridged series or particular guides.
Nvidia's recent pricing strategy has turned me into a second-hand market only GPU buyer.
I am 1.5 years behind in terms of game backlog and I will likely stay 1 generation behind, or more, for the foreseeable future.
I got a cheap used 3080 Ti and I plan on using it for at least another 3 years.
How much did you pay for the 3080 Ti? And I agree completely with your way of thinking.
@@THE-X-ForceI got a Palit GamingPro for 550 €, it's limited to 360W but it's about as much as I am willing to bare as far as power usage for a GPU goes. Generally 3080 Tis hover around 600-650€ in my country.
Same tbh, I got a good deal for my 2070 and 3060 using the second-hand market. Open box can be good too in my experience.
How are you behind 1.5 year with a 3080 ti? That can literally run almost any game at a reasonable fps with medium graphics settings.
I'm just happy with my good old 1050 Ti :')
Scrapyard wars was an awesome series. I would love to see scrappy competition content again on the channel. Now that you guys are larger, maybe you could have two teams design, build, and brand a pc component, such as a radiator, in 48 hours, fully leveraging the equipment and talent you've acquired.
That defeats the purpose. The 0original purpose was to show you dont need to buy the latest and greatest to have a good gaming experience. That you can go used and be perfectly fine. Especially for those that are new to the custom pc world.
Linus said on the wan show that he wants to bring it back following the production of this video
I just wanna see more jank setups besides my own pc lol
Don't forget about your PSU budget. Also, it would be neat if the FPS charts included how much power it took to achieve the numbers.
@@lurch789 the thing is, usually the higher efficiency psus use more reliable components also. I agree the actual "gold" rating means nothing important to most people though. I would be nice to actually determine which psus are cheap and have great reliability (but not necessarily efficiency).
the 3080 undervolts pretty good :)
The same thing goes with modern video game launches…. I hope the community can work together like this for bad video game launches to help bring the life back to gaming
They are, Last of Us, Jedi survivor, Gollum got destroyed in steam reviews.
they wont, gamers cant stop the fomo and keep buying empty promises on release.
Gamers deserve this treatment.
I bought a 6700xt from a data center that was selling them at $300 a pop. Card hasn’t failed me at all and the improvements over my 1660 were so worth it. I got off eBay and took a bit of searching but you’re right they definitely have good deals if you find the right ones
But they go for 310$ new, was this long time ago or just bad deal?
@@maxmad4771 in europe they still go for 400€.
310$ is a bargain for a 6700xt- i have one and its a Decent GPU.
@@AIC_onytfr 4060 ti here in Sweden cost like 500 euros
I feel like GPUs stay relevant now longer than they ever did before. Games just aren't pushing new GPU sales like they used to. I've been using my 2080ti founder's edition since I bought it right at release, and at five years old now it still does everything I need it to do. Without some kind of must-play game that my card can't run well, I just don't see any reason to replace it.
The absolute top end does show differences, but if you are willing to decrease the graphics slightly from Ultra/High to Medium you can easily game on an older system. I remember back in the early 2000s when you basically needed to upgrade yearly
The console ports aren't as exciting visually as when someone made a game to showcase a graphics engine so they can try to sell the graphics engine. Last big one was Crysis.
It's probably due to most game developers optimizing for consoles. Once the next gen drops all those "great" 8GB cards, that somehow cost more than a 8GB card did in 2016, are going to become potato class.
Cyberpunk was really the last game to push GPUs outside their comfort zone, just happened to be released shortly after the 3090 and 3080.
Both my 1060 and 2060 Super are going strong in my friends builds.
I follow some repair channels, and I keep hearing that a lot of RTX 20 series cards are having high failure rates with memory (especially from Northwestrepair, which specializes in graphics cards), but some models of memory are clearly having far worse failure rates than others, so if you can figure out what type of memory a 20 series card has, and check to see if it's one of the ones with a high failure rate first, then that's a great idea. You should definitely avoid buying cards with memory chips which are known to have very high failure rates, especially from an old series like the 20 series, because it seems to be more a matter of when, not IF the memory modules are going to fail. Replacing the memory is possible, but it's generally too expensive to be worth it on older cards.
Happened to me when i bought 2070S (Asus ROG) back when it was current gen, got VRAM failure out of the box, micron manufactured chips. Got replacement card and vram was again micron and this one is still going strong. But in general i feel like RTX20 is too much of a failure lottery to justify buying it nowdays without warranty.
You can often fix the fan. Just pull the fan blade off (carefully), clean for dust, and put it back on the fan motor.
It's not all fans, you can do this to, but I saved my sons GTX 780 TI, some years ago, using this method.
We also used a few bucks on sewing machine oil for the bearing.
The only problem I see is that sellers in the used GPU market are still trying to bake-in the covid premium and are a little deluded with their prices. Same is true in the used car market, which is why I'm putting off my project car idea until next year. The good news in both cases is that sanity is returning and prices are coming down, but it'll take some time before we're back to normal.
I would also add that you should also reapply thermal paste when getting a used card, particularly if it has been mined on.
Hey Linus nice work here. I had never bought a second hand gps until about 6 month ago but with the crazy state of the gpu market I took the plunge and bought a second hand 3090 $900 aud (about 600 usd) and it’s been working great and still out performs anything new that I could have bought for that
This is how I upgraded to a 3090. Lucky in my area that card prices have really come down. Seeing 3060 consistently at $200. Also saw the same thing where the used Radeon pricing is still hugging new price.
Same. I purposefully waited, knowing the 40 series was coming out AND that Ethereum miners would be getting screwed over soon. The two combined made my upgrade from a 2080 to a 3080 Ti, with water cooling, cost less than the 2080 when I got it brand new! Had I waited more, it would have gone down even further, but it was JUST at the right spot I felt okay with everything, and the seller babied the card.
I`ve seen a RTX3090 2nd hand for R13 000 here. For reference the RTX4070 12gb palit dual fan card is R13200 here brand new.
Wow a 3060 at 200 in my country a 3060 is litteraly 400 euro wich is pretty expensive
Yeah I’ve seen 3080s go for £350-500 which is wayyy below MSRP, a very good deal tbh!
@@309electronics5 luckily i had my 3060ti last year for $280
I appreciate you guys continuing to suggest used parts. Just because something isn't brand new doesn't mean that it's trash. I really wish more folks understood that. It's the throw away everything approach that is making us poor and causing environmental issues
I dont think people have issues with used items, people have issues with scammers. Theres just sooooooooooo many scammers in the used market thats its not even worth dealing with.
@@Dempig Also, the need for validation or security that an item works. Having the buyer protection of eBay or being able to see that a product works in person is the bare minimum to want to buy used tech, for me.
I got heavily into video gear during Covid and while there aren’t any additional hurdles like scalping and insane price gauging, camera bodies, lenses, lights…..are simply adding up veeeeeery quickly. I’ve been buying about 90% used and with some extra work and not insisting on getting things right friggin now, I’ve saved thousands and had zero bad experiences.
Another great source - at least for some items - is commercial sites that sell refurbished products only. In most cases it’s not as cheap as buying from a private seller but you often get up to 3 years warranty and still save 20-30% compared to MSRP.
Agree for camera kit. The company is buying FUJI X-T3’s for like £150 used… that do the job. They’re so cheap they’re almost disposable compared to a Nikon D5 at 4,5,6k a pop + lenses. Used is the way
Anyone agree with the fact that since Linus stepped down... he's been given a lot more freedom to star in awesome videos like this? The writing and editing is awesome, as always (in my opinion)!
He hasn't even stepped down yet
You're absolutely right ,but don't forget that they also adjust the production line to always have a higher demand
Just an idea and I’m not sure if ya’ll thought of this already, but what about including sound results with mark bench in the future? Some people may wanna see sound data as well to see how loud fans can get and stuff like that. Just an idea.
The craziest thing for me was a year ago almost, I grabbed a Gigabyte 3070 Gaming OC as (used, 1 week old). But the thing was mint, even the packaging, for way less than what the price was new at the time. I never asked questions--HWiNFO said it was/is a LHR version though; maybe that had something to do with it. But I've had it married to a 5800X with 64GB DDR4 and a couple of NVMe as well as SATA SSDs, game at 1440p. I've been a happy gal.
My niece got my old GTX 1080 and 2700X with a 970 Evo 500GB and Crucial 1TB, 16GB RAM. She's a happy one too. xD
got myself gtx 1080TI used on 2019 from fb marketplace and it was modified by owner - added water cooling and i bougth it for around 350$ and you know whaat? best decision ever, still rocking!!!!
That's why I bought an Arc A770. Got exactly what I paid for and it has been excellent.
I might buy the arc a380
@@killergg0072 As an A380 owner, I’d suggest you probably go with something else. The drivers still underperform in DX9-11, and in DX12 it doesn’t perform well enough in demanding titles to take advantage of Intel’s decent RT architecture.
I’d go up to the next tier or go used.
@jameslake7775 well I won't be playing that heavy weight games bur I am considering a Radeon rx 6600 or 6600xt
@@jameslake7775 .
As an owner of rx6600, I really love it's perfomance, even tho I undervolt it too hard as I love seeing max 70° on it's hotspot, it still manages to get like 130fps in 1080p medium in RE4, and 144+ with fsr2 quality. Esports titles manage 240+fps obviously, but I still think that 6600xt would've been quite a bit better@@killergg0072
I used a GTX 960 all the way up to halfway through 2020, my RTX 3070 (I have the same model Linus grabbed off the shelf!) is going to live a long life. Growing up poor teaches you to make the most of what components you can get your hands on.
I used a 970 until a few months before the 4000 series launch, when stores were selling off their 3000 stock. I paid less than MSRP for a 3080 12GB, still more than it's now on eBay, but I hope it lasts me 7 to 8 years too
Made the exact same upgrade
I went from gtx960 to rtx 3060ti last year 😂
@@BottomOfTheDumpsterFireI still rock 970 and FX series CPU 😅
I'm still using a 965m 😭
Bring back scrapyard wars! I just rewatched all the old episodes over the last week and it was just awesome! I guess your lab could also make the benchmarking way better and maybe capture other metrics such as quality of the parts (e.g. PSU). Would definitely be interesting to see what's possible now
I can't wait for that Lab website that Linus mentioned. It would be so cool to see generational comparisons for gpus reaching far back.
Gamers Nexus already has it
@@techinitiate9318i can't find it, are you sure there's a page with benchmark of gpus with uo to date drivers on their site?
i got my first ever gpu as a second hand 3070 ti for 350 $ still going strong. and thinking of upgrading to 3080ti second hand as well
No fucking way you got a 350$ 3070 ti
Integrated graphics go brrr
A bot copied your comment btw
It would be better if you could wait for a bigger upgrade. The 3080 10gb is less than 10% weaker than a 3080ti, and the 3070ti is less than 20% weaker than the 3080 10gb, so your 3070ti to 3080ti upgrade will be quite underwhelming. Also, even 12gb of vram might be insufficient soon (while 8gb is already insufficient now), so you should wait for a good deal on a second hand 4080/4090. Amd 16gb cards are also not a big jump in performance, unless you get the 7900xt/xtx.
I got a 1070Ti for $100 a handful of months back when I needed a holdover GPU for my system. Not only was it handling 1440p gaming without an issue, but in most games it was doing so at fairly high settings (obviously things like ray tracing aren't gonna be in the cards). While I would generally not advise pairing 1440p gaming with a $100 GPU, it was still shockingly capable and for someone looking to do, say, 1080p gaming without spending too much that's quite a deal and so far below what comparable performance would cost new that it's not even worth considering the comparison because even if you ended up buying used, having the card break and no warranty, and having to buy the same GPU again, you'd still basically come out even.
The above failure is also unlikely. I've bought a lot of GPUs for myself, roommates, etc, and of the last dozen, nine were used. I had two failures of those cards over the years, one new one where capacitative paste ended up on traces and crashing the card (easily fixable once I figured it out) and used one that I bought deeply discounted ($90 for an RX 390 when they were typically twice that much), that was admitted up front to have been run very hard, and still gave 3 years of constant use before quitting.
Buying used really is a good way to go if you're not an idiot - avoid obvious signs of problems or sellers that don't accept returns and test thoroughly upon receipt and that's all there is to it.
I still use a 1080 8GB for 1440p, undervolted for reduced temperature and energy consumption.
But compared to 2 years ago every GPU is cheap, and if you consider new features and inflation it is similar to the last 15 years.
Like in 1973 Kawasaki Z1 was a hell of a Bike, 50 years later a Z1000SX costs 10x as much but increases FPS by only 50%...
@@baronvonslambert I managed 1080p gaming in most modern titles in a 3GB HD7950 I had a bit back. Literally everything but Star Citizen at least ran, usually not half bad! FSR made a huge difference too, letting me get pretty respectable framerates in games like Horizon Zero Dawn.
1440p is gonna be rough on 4GB in modern titles but 1080p would give such a card NO trouble. All this noise about how "games only run now if you have 12 quadrillion terrabytes of VRAM, for 720P!" is just wildly overblown. Yes, if you absolutely max out settings, AND use ray tracing maxed out, and don't use DLSS or FSR, maybe that new 2023 game can suck down more than 8GB of VRAM, but no one needs to run games like that. Even new games can usually be fit into 4GB or 6GB of VRAM if just set up reasonably by the user.
My 1080 is still going strong after 6 years, plays pretty much most games well enough 1440p, though now with a 1600p UW it struggles a bit on new titles, but tbh for me personally as long as it's 30/40fps + (Ofc 60 is the ideal!) for a single player game that's doable and enjoyable enough experience that isn't worth paying £900+ on a new gen card.
scrapyard wars was my favorite series, y’all should bring it back!
I'm kind of disappointed Linus didn't touch on the GTX 1080. They are going for $100, and offer some of the best bang-for-buck on the used market. The reality is many people still have 1080p monitors and not many games support ray tracing (and it's usually a minor visual improvement anyway). DLSS is a great technology, but just not that useful if you're already comfortably running the games you want at the framerate and resolution you want. I don't play many super recent and demanding titles, but I have yet to play a game that the 1080 doesn't run fairly comfortably. Horizon Zero Dawn, Control, and Sons of the Forest run fine. The GTX 1080 is an option worth considering for many gamers, at the very least as a temporary card while waiting to save up and find another better deal later.
Massively under rated comment. I wish this flagship card was still included in testing graphs that they do.
1080 is too old to recommend, nearing 8 years of age and if your main goal is to have a temporary card just use integrated graphics or a very-very cheap GPU, no need to waste $100 on something you're going to get rid of
@@TypicalBlox The biggest downside is the power draw. If you pan to keep the card for a while, spending a bit more for a newer midrange card will balance out the upfront cost fairly quickly.
Before I bought my 1060 I did extrapolate running cost compared to the 480/580, and by now going for the slightly more expensive and slightly slower card has more than made up for it. In fact, with my usage pattern so far, getting a 1080 would've been cheaper than a RX 480
@@HappyBeezerStudios Listen I love the 10 series I truly do believe it was the greatest GPU's ever made however I'm shocked people are still recommending anything other than the 1080ti in 2023, it's time to move on people unless you get it at a crazy low price there are other newer options for not that much more and you unlock new features, years more of support and warranty and such.
This is like saying that a 2014 iPhone is better than a low range 2023 Samsung.
Imagine buying something that old in 2023 what are you a filthy console peasant?
I really really enjoyed this video, loved the practical, real world advice. My favourite ltt video in a while
I think a new 6700xt is really the ticket if you're on a budget right now. It can be had for $300 and with recent driver updates it's about between the 3070 and 3080. Seems like a no brainer to me if you're just gaming.
something more than 8gb vram, $300, readily available.... yeah I just grabbed 6700xt too
the best graphics card in every area when it comes to value. Won't run out of stock for a while either. Sounds good to me
Agreed. I grabbed a 6750 xt for $350. 67xx series are the best bang for the buck at the moment. Used marked is quite risky with the flood of mining farm GPUs.
Another option is buying refurbished Quadro workstation cards cards. They have much better build quality, more VRAM and lower power consumption. They also run the latest RTX drivers.
My 1080ti has served me really well, but it's starting to get a little long in the tooth in 1440p. I'd like to upgrade, but the only cards I can justify the price for are too close to my current card in performance. It's a bummer!
0:25 that wallet didn’t look like a ridge wallet to me.
I bought a "broken" B350 board for $20, looked at the signs of how dead it was, and took a small gamble to see if the person who sold it just didn't get it to boot for some reason. Which is what happened. That was a glorious day as a 15 year old who could barely afford a CPU and ram. (I literally had to ask a friend for a penny because I was missing it...pretty funny now that I'm working XD
Your intro sums up the real estate market too actually!
My 1060 will continue to game until prices improve
Buying second hand is really good and for someone like me with a limited budget, sometimes it's the only choice. The problem comes from the fact that not every city has a good second hand market, I live in a relatively big city in Spain and the second hand market is filled with either really old and bad computers, prices that are so close to new that you might just buy it new, and just a lack of actually good things to buy. It's a shame because it seems like a very affordable and environmentally friendly to upgrade your PC, but sadly there are many things that are just outside of one's control
Thats why you stop going to local cities....buy online, plenty of sites with buyer protection and good deals and hundreds of choices
I would absolutely love to see scrapyard wars again by the way. I just love this kind of content it's like a drug to me xD
The satisfaction of getting a great deal on something or thinking up clever alternatives to save up cash and still end up with a cool rig, I crave it so so much !
06:05 that's a 'parts only' 2070 for $140 with the red arrow next to it. Goes to show how easy it is to overlook that label!
A couple of months ago, I have aquired a RX 6800 XT for 400 bucks which wasn't bad at all.
same here! I bought one for ~400usd. happy user here!
The same thing applies to laptops too. I was able to find RTX 3070 laptops for under 1000 freedom dollars, and RTX 2080 laptops go for as low $700. And if 2021 happens again (hopefully it won't), laptops won't be scalped to the Sun thanks to their more consistent supply and demand and the lack of any real gain from mining on laptops.
The same applies for nearly any piece of tech. I've bought cards, laptops, HDDs, SSDs, RAM, MB+CPU kits, whole PCs and servers. I don't even use ebay as it's prohibitively expensive. As long as you are careful and patient, you can score a lot of great deals.
@@tenekevi Oh yeah, totally. Our family has bought so much used tech. We got a Wii U with all the accessories and 2 games for ~130 dollars, snagged an old HP WMR headset for 50 dollars, etc. Used tech is awesome.
I’m sitting here with my dell 1030 , Minecraft puts a rough load on her but she gets the job done.
@@taxxzempt3576 I also have a Dell (Optiplex 5040). Other than the GPU and HDD it's a pretty powerful system.
I love this video so much. Thank you Linus for advocating for gamers to buy used cards. The more we buy used, the less cards get manufactured and sold for $$$$$ (jacking up prices) and the less cards end up in eWaste. Get out there and support your fellow gamer by getting a bargain, and helping someone else upgrade. It’s the circle of life!
GPUs don't work indefinitely. I'd also love to buy used cars with 200k miles on them but they don't tend to last me very long. At the end of the day, unfortunately most used GPUs are coming from miners or scammers. I'd rather not support the very same people who put us in this situation in the first place by buying secondhand mining GPUs. The miners fucked over consumers making us pay a premium for new sku GPUs and now you want to pay them more money for sloppy seconds lol? No thanks.
@@pwd1134 That’s cool. Don’t buy them then. More bargains for me.
@@pwd1134ood point, except for the fact that you're not paying full price for a used gpu, mining card or not. If that's not the case for you or your area, then I'm sorry, but sucks to sucks
RX 6800 XT used for $413 in my country.
I don't really need a new card but that's a great price.
Got a 3060 (highest tier I could fit in the case I wanted) for $283 for a mini-itx build. Found a new motherboard for $180 with a 4 year warranty. (On NewEgg sadly, but I couldn't beat that deal anywhere else) Deals are out there using Linus's tips.
One way to add pressure is to exit the range of gpus you are used to buying. Ive been used to buying near top end at 5-600+$ but then started to keep them longer 4+ years instead of 2-3 and now moving toward low to mid range in my next purchase where I had bought R290 and Vega 64 that were near top range Im now looking at low to mid range 7600-7700 (when it comes out) but still getting a good perf increase vs the previous gpu. Its not uncommon to see a low end gpu beat a 4 year old high end now and even the lowly 7600 beats the Vega 64 in most cases. Its just not worth 1000$ or more... much more in some cases for a one time gpu purchase.
yeah, I have Vega56 and I have similar issue, especial because HBM memory give even more compute than 7600... hopefully ROCm still support it (not officialy)
The upper midrange cards were always great for price/performance. So things like the 8800 GT, HD 4870, GTX 560 Ti, HD 6870, GTX 660 Ti, HD 7850, GTX 970, RX 480 and so on. Obviously depends a bit on how long you use the card, a 1080 Ti has proven to be great value for money.
@@HappyBeezerStudios Only if you compare it to todays prices. But it didnt stay long at msrp and started the upward move in prices for high end. In Canada the 1080ti was at 1000$ for a long time. I got the Vega 64 instead for about half that. Great value for me is mid range and you upgrade less often. I saw my smarter than me bud keep his 970 for 6 years. He upgraded it to a 6700xt recently and was good about playing at high settings instead of ultra with no real visual difference. One thing Linus should mention is that gpus have a lifespan of about 5-8 years. I wouldnt buy used that didnt have warranty left myself but any gpu thats 5+ years old could be on its last legs.
@@pax256 I'm running midrange cards as well. from a HD 4870 to a GTX 660 ti to a 1060, and with my upgrade cycle so far a 5060 would be right at it. gives enough performance for pretty much all games at release and last long enough afterwards.
@@HappyBeezerStudios Ya Im thinking for 1440p high settings the 7600 or the 4060 may be the way to go for 2 years. My vega 64 died after 5 years which is why think would have been smarter to get the 970 back then... 8 Gb vram is not that bad. Im gonna check some more tests after the 29th and see whats on sale in July.
I kindly request the production team to consider creating another installment of Scapyard Wars.
As previously mentioned, there is a promising opportunity to explore new deals and bargains.
Moreover, the inclusion of the latest generation of computer hardware, such as Ryzen and other notable advancements, would undoubtedly enhance the show's overall appeal and captivate a wider audience.
I have a 2060s that i bought about a year ago, it was a mining card so the fans do rattle when at higher rpm but i still have one year of warranty on it, card works fine and doesn't overheat and ive been enjoying it
I got a used Red Devil Ultimate 6900 XT last August for $600, Amazon listed it as "Acceptable" and it was in immaculate condition. It was not maxing out my 4K 120Hz display when We Love Katamari was released on Steam so I looked for an upgrade. Per Techpowerup, only the 7900 XTX, 4080, and 4090 offered meaningful (to me) performance uplift so I thought it would be another generation before I could afford that level of performance but I was able to get a used Red Devil 7900 XTX for $764, again listed by Amazon as "Acceptable." The card itself was perfect but it was missing the RGB cable. Gave me 40% higher Timespy GPU score and maxed out my display for Katamari.
and I got a 7900 XT for $660 on ebay, barely used. I think used AMD cards are only a really good deal on the high end
I feel like we did vote with our wallets. Nvidia saw massive drop in demand from the consumer market, but AI companies have taken over that demand so it was for nothing anyway. This was even addressed on a WAN show, why was it ignored in this context?
@@Ren33469 A shill for who exactly?
@@SaltyMikan Yeah, I don't get it either man. Obviously they are going to try to cover every GPU and for a while now they have been critical of Nvidia. I don't see the shilling. I see him getting review copies and him and his team being honest on the quality of the GPUs.
Still using my 2080 Super I bought used during the pandemic. Not a great deal by today's standards (spent the AUD equivalent of $440USD) but at the time it was better than anything else I could see. And it's just so disheartening seeing all the GPU releases recently that are worse value than my scalping-era deal.
I'm still using a 980 ti that I have had since new.
@@matthewtremain683I'm still using a GT840m , you can't beat me
@@killkiss_soni don't have a dedicated card. Just a i5 3rd gen mobile chip
@@goovindnarula6470 but you can't play anything with that 🥲
Yeah absolutely I don't really find used market very appealing with all the risks and savings of, oftentimes, only ~20% compared to brand new.
Especially with the potential of prices for new cards dropping more within the next few months.
Would be super bitter to buy a used GPU now and see its price beaten next month
Please bring back scrapyard wars! It was not only so much fun to watch but was extremely helpful to those of us trying to build/upgrade on a budget. When I started planning my first build my first step was to watch all of scrapyard wars. Gave me such a good idea of what to expect from the used market at that time. The only reason why I (and I also think other fans) haven't been harassing you as much to reboot it is because you are too recognizable in that field now. But now you have minions to do it! You could even use the lab to not only make it more fair (thinking of all the overclocks that worked on one outlet but not another) but to make it more educational. When someone buys a part that doesn't work the lab can look it over, identify what is wrong with it, and explain warning signs so we know what to check for when shopping used.
Im tired of gpu manifactures and aib etc chickening out warranty first chance they get for the slightest scratch even if just visual.
Would you guys ever be interested in making a video detailing the differences in laptop A-series GPUs vs GeForce GPUs when it comes to rendering, gaming, video editing, and simulation performance? Maybe in a laptop like the HP Z Book Studio G10? It has the same chassis for both performance options regarding choices from Nvidia's 40 Series GPUs and A Series GPUs
Yes and also the difference in performance between desktop CPUs amd the laptop supposed equivalent, havent seen amy or many videos doing this!
If they do I sure hope they also include the new AMD APUs.
Yes Levi
The chips often have different wattages depending on the laptop so it would be too inconsistent. Just look at reviews of the laptop you're considering.
I'm pretty sure one of the goals of Labs is to do round up type videos. Laptop GPU performance is not as simple as "which GPU does it have?" as a lower tier GPU in one system can outperform a higher tier one in another depending on what other design decisions were made
Just before the 30-series launched, EVERYONE without exceptions said "safe your money, wait for 30-series, its gonna be so much better and at a better price/performance ratio. I baught a 2070 Super just before that launch für 300 something bucks BRANDNEW and it was the best decision ever. Could have sold it for 900 two weeks later but didnt.
Currently got 2 PCs, one with my trusty 1080ti and one with the 2070 Super, both holdin up very well👍
1080 for the win!! such a good card
@@vardenfell971 yep, the Ti especially with its 11GB of VRAM
@@blifi77 yeah I bet. Sadly I didn’t have the money. As it was after I walked out of Best Buy with my 1080 my truck started smoking. Bad grounds
I appreciate the editor for panning the audio for the "Boo". Was a nice touch xD
Picked up a used RX 6900XT for $725cad (approx. $545usd) on Kijiji last month and It's been running great.
If you encounter a bad fan or just loud under-performing fans, don't be afraid to deshroud your card and strap 2x 120 or 3x 90 fans. Just need a pack of zip ties and you can optionally buy a Micro 4-Pin GPU fan adapter cable so that the fans are controlled by the GPU's fan controller. Snagging a deal on a 2-3 pack of T30 fans would be amazing for a deshroud. This is assuming you have the space in your case.
As someone who has wanted to upgrade ever since 2021, I am yet to proceed with the purchase. My 1080 is barely holding on at this point, and while features such as AV1 are very tempting, the pricing - at least in central Europe, is somewhat of an issue. So I'll continue waiting until the 1080 gives out.
Your 1080 isn't "barely holding on", it is still a great GPU and way better than the average 1650/1060.
@@KYSMO Depends what they use it for. I'm on my first GPU still, 1060 (6GB). Star Citizen is a struggle....but thats Star Citizen. Suits my current needs alright but Destiny 2 isn't the most demanding game. 1080p, 60fps (most of the time ah).
I can see how a heavier load, multiple monitors, higher resolution might give them that impression.
I've been wanting to upgrade since 2020, as a self present for finishing uni but the value just isn't there
Its still one of the best performing gamer cards out there, maybe the wear and tear is getting to it, but thats probably fixable, or your drivers are messed up
@@KYSMO ❤
"ever since 2021" ??? I used my Radeon 7970oc since 2013! By the way it mined ethereum for at least 5 years 24/7 and still is absolutely perfect. I have no idea what you did to your 1080 to make it "barely hold on".
I got 3060ti yesterday for 250 eur with a proper "trustMeBroo" 1 year warranty from some local reseller. I don't even mind all the dog hair in it's cooler that came for free. And chances are, this 3060ti also has mined some shitcoin every single day of it's existence.
Is this the guy who make the argument that the 4060ti had it's merits. He should be required to disclose all they payola he has taken from these companies. Full disclosure.
5:45 that is always the case, old I7 are too expensive as well, better look for ryzen 5 2600 and also flagship used cards are always overprices
Honestly, 20-series Nvidia cards are a pretty good deal if you don't care about Ray Tracing or the massive performance hit it incurs for making your game look barely any better. DLSS still works and that's basically free FPS. Worth it if you can get one at a good price.
I honestly wouldn't mind a 2060, but I'm already on a 1060, and the jump isn't that huge. If we exclude oem-only rebrands, I've bought a new card every 3 gens. From a HD 4870 (GTX 260 equivalent) to a GTX 660 Ti to a GTX 1060, so the next card by that pattern would be a RTX 5060. If that performs around a 4070 Ti/4080 level it would also stay with the same performance growth.
@@HappyBeezerStudios go for the 2060 super, has 8gb like most new nvidia cards anyway
Short version: Buy used
🫡
👍
I am honestly thinking of going to a 6700xt /6800...
@@frank4976 lets get a 🫡 chain
As long as it's not used for crypto first
TPU is really good for a quick performance indication. He showed it but didn't mention it.
Weird.
Also, the 2080Ti is holding its value much stronger because it has 11GB of RAM compared to most other cards that have "just" 8GB.
The only other card coming close in price is the 3060 12GB, but it performs quite a bit worse.
The 6700xt is in a great position right now, 12gb and I got mine for like 250$ or something.
As a Northern Ontario boy .... that segue was amazing
Few months ago I decided to upgrade my 970 and bought 2070 for 200€. Even though it was with faulty fans which I didn’t notice during testing, I’m happy with it and eventually turned out even better: I just de-shrouded it, cleaned heat sink, changed a thermal compound and put 2x120mm case fans directly to GPU. To me for 1080p 60Hz gaming it would be enough for a few years. Hopefully when I have to upgrade GPUs won’t cost a fortune
I still have mine from 2019, with mixed settings it's even good enough for 60fps WQHD, or some games run still extremely well and I can seriously get 120+fps with max settings. Have some old stuff I could run at 4k but that's obviously not representative.
i also upgraded my 980 to a 2070 super for about 300 bucks and its good and all but like linus said im looking to upgrade to a used 3080 for 400.
I have such a bad experience with second hand electronics, that I will always buy new. Everything worked at first, but issues always started showing later - instability and other weird behavior. Also new AMD RX 6800XT is not much more expensive than used RTX 3080 with similar performance and 16GB memory for 1440p gaming.
6700xt going for 300$ brand new (cheaper than 3060ti) I immediately went ahead nd purchased it, In the words of the other Linus - "Fuck you Nvidia!"
The more you avoid buying Nvidia GPUs the more you save.
Best sponsor segue I've seen in the past couple of years. Do more like this.
I mean, you remain honest with us when analysing those products, thoroughly informing and explaining us everything we have to know about this gaming field, give us nice advice, recognising when you fail, etc. All this and is it your fault? As if it were your fault the existence of scrappers or people who don't know what they are buying because they are too lazy to at least understand what they are buying or who cannot restrain themselves from buying overpriced gpus. Yikes!!
Nvidia is a trillion dollar company and the majority of their profit does NOT come from the average consumer, it comes from AI companies, corporations and trading. Not much you can do about that lmao
While I would _love_ to keep waiting it out...there are a lot of newer titles that my R9 290 just cannot run anymore, and with used products, you _never_ know what you're getting. I think AMD's prices are a bit more fair. It's so hard to want to buy a GPU right now, but it's also so hard to NOT want to buy a GPU right now.
I'm in the same boat, I still use my R9 390 but it's really starting to show it's age. It held up amazingly though for a really long time and I'm really glad I bought it over the GTX 970 back in 2015 but it's time to say goodbye. Honestly I might just switch to the new Intel Cards, I'm curious what they have to offer
Just please don't buy nvidia 40 series.
i still have my old R9 270x that i overclocked. loved that card. but my GTX 1080. is just a beast. nvidia is my go to for graphics cards and AMD for CPU's all day.
Get a RX 6700 XT, you won't regret it.
Used stuff is fine as long as u can test it on hand before buying. I recently bought used mining 3070ti works like a charm.
I love the pan to the old set