The horsepower arms race is pretty much over, so now it’s up to studios to think laterally with existing technology and utilize it to create new and interesting experiences. That doesn’t mean gaming has peaked, but it does mean that just increasing the graphical fidelity of games is simply no longer a selling point, nor is it sustainable for development pipelines.
Will never need anything more than 1080P will never need anything more than 480p. As long as it's a billion dollar industry, they'll keep making reasons for us to buy new shit. I promise you
@@pool842 look up Moore's law, and the slow down to increases in processing power that has been going on for years. We are literally approaching a plateau in terms of increases in processing power. It may be many more years before we HIT that plateau, and some creative solutions have been found to try and keep Moore's law going, but we are indeed approaching a plateau, and acting like we can keep cramming more processing power into the same size ad infinitum is itself ignorant.
No. Just a few AAA companies hit that wall. There are lot of companies (like Nintendo) who do not lack creativity. Or Indie devs, who saved the gaming industry in my opinion.
Yeah I'm sick of the open world formula copying ALA the ubisoft playbook. Same is true of live service games you don't need to make every product a 300 mil boom or bust investment to be successful with mainly those two genres
A@@thingsiplayExactly, people act like since Ubisoft and other companies with big franchises are stale, the whole industry is stale. I've played tons of great games this year.
Agreed, I have hopes that AI will really change this. Make production easier (more focus on creativity), improve visuals, give games the ability to be more dynamic, and when we get NPCs with high quality AI interactions it could really be a wow moment.
I agree 100%, I am able to use ray tracing on my PC and I don’t because it’s very taxing and it is very overrated! 1440P, 60 frames per second, maxed settings is perfect for me!
I only care about Ray tracing insofar as the tech creates easy to use lighting system to take less dev time on the simulations that we have been using for years but we are still a generation shy of that being a reliable tool for developers to use to skip the more programmer/designer based lighting models. I will state that I am a bit sick of screen space reflections and their built in artefacts at this point but not so much that it makes ray-tracing essential. A good use of cube maps and screen space often times is so good if done correctly that ray-tracing wouldn't really be needed. But cube maps take time so hence my initial statement.
Same, not only do I find it to be a minor improvement even in the best examples, but a lot of the time it looks worse than traditional lighting methods, and it takes SO many resources to do at a fidelity that looks nice.
@@AA_dagr8t that was never a reality, we used to measure bits, enemy on screens, FPS not to the same extend as now, visual quality, bumper mapping, etc etc. that was always in games. Since the 70s.
Graphics pushing has been here for decades. Seriously, how did you miss the Genesis? The entire marketing was how much the NES was garbage compared to the 16 bit behemoth.
@@SakuraAvalonyeah and look how that went Nintendo won. 😂 It doesn't matter how nice the game looks if it's not fun. Too many groups are chasing the games as a service model. They've(Sony and Microsoft) have been largely neglecting the single player market.
I wouldn't say gaming has peaked, but people put too much stock in graphics without understanding it's purpose. From the SNES/Sega Genesis to the transition to PS1/N64/Sega CD we went from 2D pixels to 3D models, so yes graphics were important. From the PS1/N64/Sega CD to the transition to PS2/Sega Dreamcast/Xbox/Gamecube era, graphics were important to understand the surroundings and character models building upon it's predecessor. Xbox/PS2 to 360/PS3 again was necessary to further detail character models and environments. No more blocky hands but actual hands with fingers and honestly I would argue that graphics had achieved it's purpose at this point. But from PS3/360 to PS4/Xbox One perfected what was built on the previous gen with further aesthetics and detail, getting rid of any additional blurriness. At that point imo graphics didn't matter as much because the importance and purpose of it was already achieved up to that point. We understand the environment, the character models in detail where it's easy to see what's going on, no blurriness. Graphics now are just eye candy, there was always a purpose going from one generation to the next. But I don't see the reason anymore to spend so much time and resources when the purpose has already been achieved in the last generation.
From PS4 to PS5 we should easily get almost real life graphics that run perfectly well on mid tier PC parts. We don't because we have greedy devs making quick buck for investors, while having stupid gamers like you with no common sense and is just coping with outdated PS4 garbage games while paying inflated prices to play on their PS5s.
If anybody disagrees with me, lets do the math and I'll just focus on exclusives and not counting remasters. Nintendo has: 3 Zelda Games (Tears of The Kingdom, Echoes of Wisdom, Hyrule Warriors Age of Calamity) 12 Mario Games (Odyssey, Mario Maker 2/ Super Mario Bros Wonder/Mario Tennis: Aces/Mario Golf: Super Rush/Mario Strikers: Battle League/ Mario Rabbids: Kingdom Battle/Sparks of Hope/Luigi's Mansion 3/Paper Mario: Origami King/ Princess Peach Showtime/Mario and Luigi Brothership) 2 Xenoblade Games (Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and 3) 3 Mario Party Games (Super Mario Party/Superstars/Jambouree) 3 Kirby Games (Forgotten Land, Kirby Fighters 2, Dream Buffet) 1 Metroid Game (Metroid Dread) 1 Super Smash Bros (Ultimate) 3 Fire Emblem Games (Three Hopes/Engage/Warriors) 1 New 3D RPG (Astral Chain) 4 Pokemon Games (Legends Arceus/Sword Shield/ Scarlet Violet/Brilliant Diamond Shining Pearl) Playstation has: 1 God of War (Ragnarok) 1 Final Fantasy (Rebirth) 1 Ratchet and Clank (Rift Apart) 1 Horizon (Forbidden West) 1 Spiderman (Spiderman 2) 1 Gran Turismo (Gran Turismo 7) 5 New IP's (Stellar Blade/Ghost of Tsushima/Astrobot/Destruction Allstars/Returnal) Xbox has: 1 Halo (Infinite) 1 Forza (Forza 5) 1 Hellblade (Hellblade 2) 1 Gears of War (E-Day) 1 Stalker (Stalker 2) 1 Alan Wake (Alan Wake 2) 5 New IP's (Avowed/South of Midnight/Expedition 33/Starfield/Hi-fi Rush) Nintendo who doesn't focus on graphics has a total of 33 new games released this generation. Whereas Playstation has 11 games released this generation, and Xbox has 5 games released and 6 planned releases. Focusing on too much graphics is what's holding these companies back from releasing more games and just focusing on fun gameplay mechanics.
Exactly and older gamers also no that 30fps is also ok, sure 60fps is awesome but as long as the gameplay is smooth then it doesn’t matter to me if the game runs at 30 or 60fps.
No not really. Ive been gaming for over 30 years and people have been saying this for decades. Even the best looking games can still look significantly better and get way better performance. I saw so many people saying that the Alan wake 2 ps5 pro update looks exactly the same and they showed the differences quite clearly lol.
We did not. There is so much room with RayTracing (the biggest game changer in graphics if its done well). And all of that with 120 fps at 4k native, not like 30 fps upscaled from 720p on modern consoles. Also Unreal Engine and AI tools allow for faster creation of worlds and human faces (and voices), that developers will have more time to finetune and create the real important parts of the game themselves.
I would say it peaked in 2018 when there were a lot of great games coming out with God of War 2018, Red Dead Redemption 2, Spiderman, Assassins Creed Odyssey etcetera... Since then everything has been in a slow decline
You aren’t going to see a graphical powerhouse game because that market isn’t big enough to support it now. The last real game to push people to buy new cutting edge hardware was Crysis and that cost 22 million to develop. With the way budgets are now studios cannot afford to develop a game that force people to go out and buy 4090s only for that to barely run it with everything it’s doing.
I’m a 48 year old gamer. I been playing games since the Atari and Apple II pc days. I now wear glasses because, well my eyes are just old and I need reading glasses to read and watch tv. At this point, I can’t tell the difference between Mario Odyssey and Ratchet & Clank running in fidelity mode. I care more about FPS now because I can tell the difference between a smooth frame rate and a jittery one.
Also, being the same age as you Jon, you made me feel old with that line about "being teens and having the whole world in front of you". We're not even 40 yet though, I refuse to admit that I am old (while simultaneously knowing that it's getting close).
Games like Splatoon, Mario Odyssey, Metroid Dread/Prime, Zelda show that we DONT NEED A LOT OF RESOURCE POWER. We just need good stylized games. It saves costs the games look good and focus on fun stories
Honestly, as a 44-year-old gamer I think that the visuals have been fine for a couple generations. Biggest selling point to me. This generation has been extremely fast loading times and the dual sense controller with the taptic feedback and adaptive triggers. like Hardware is the limitation anymore as much as it’s just game developers not optimizing their games to run smoothly. I honestly don’t know what the next generation could offer to give you that wow factor.
With the exception of Tales Of Arise, One Piece Oddessy, & gacha games, the fact that all the ps5 games I’ve played have been just sequels or ps4 native/crossover games says a lot about how Sony doesn’t have too many brand new IP these days. I would like to get Metaphor Rephantazio eventually though
That's a good point, everything is now focused on visuals when there is still plenty of work to be done in terms of interactivity and mechanics and game design.
I think people like you are stupid. How is having PS4 graphics 10 years after its release "peaked" ? Computers have evolved and progressed so much, a GPU now is at least 10-20 times faster than a PS4, and you're telling me grahpics still should look the same in 2024 as a PS4 with 10 times less graphical power!?
I find ray tracing is most noticeable in darker environments as it usually enables them to be dark whilst they're not going completely black and hard to see.
I think we will have hit peak the moment clipping never happens in games. Objects clipping through each other is something I wonder if we will ever have even mostly resolved.
What annoys me the most is how companies like Square Enix damaged their main franchises like Final Fantasy for being affraid of do a mainline turn based title and instead they go for the least risk route (action oriented games) and disguise that as "EvOlUtiOn"...
They've been trying different systems, from proper turn-based to ATB to MMO-like for the entire series. They settled on the one that people actually like. That *is* evolution.,
@@Cryptic0013 No. The most successful franchises usually stick to their core gameplay and what made them big to begin with, at least with their mainline games. Metal Gear, Devil May Cry, Persona, (and the list goes on) follow that pattern, they actually evolved their gameplay while keeping their identity and core mechanics. Heck, just look what FromSoftware has accomplished. They were aware the soulsborne games are enjoyed by a niche demographic, yet they keep making their core mechanic better each interation, to the point Elden Ring is basically a main stream game now. Changing your flagship franchise genre (it is basically DMC now) just to appeal a wider demographic is not evolving.
@@LG555 a large chunk of FF fanbase has been craving for a turn based mainline game for decades now, so I just kinda wish we don't have to search in other franchises what we enjoyed when FF was known for being some of the best RPG series out there (snes/psone era).
@@azulion At the risk of belaboring the point... they've changed the core combat in every iteration for the last 30 years, and it hasn't been true turn-based since the SNES days (other than a flirtation with something close to it with FFX). Most gamers today aren't old enough to remember it being turn-based, unless you count ATB as such, and they haven't even used ATB since the PS2 era when they went over to a more real-time system for FFXII. You're harping on them for 'changing' something that's been gone for 20 years.
Companies have to learn... what is more important, a game with 2% better graphics or a game that has a great story, is fun to play, and engages the player? Quality of game vs quality of graphics, I 'll take quality of game every time. Also they NEED to learn how to reduce expenses, constantly charging more and more, not a recipe for success. Sell more at lower prices vs limited market high expense items.
The visuals and performance for most games these days seem more dependent on how well a game is made than how much hardware and power is available for a game to utilize. We have cases now where games that came out around a decade ago look better than games that come out now (Ubisoft games, the Arkham Batman games as a couple of examples). My guess for the stagnation we seem to be seeing industry-wide is that talent and creativity is being stifled by executives who focus too much on maximizing profits and administrators who focus too much on making sure everything is as inoffensive as possible.
This is why I appreciate games like MGSV and DS. They look great, they don't need to look any better, and they have great gameplay mechanics. Devs need to stop spending money on adding so many little details to textures and start expanding gameplay mechanics. One of the best examples I've seen in recent years is Spider-Man when you traverse along buildings and the animations change. Instead of just having Spider-Man body check scaffolding, he actually navigates it properly.
And celebrities/influences, don't forget how much money they waste on getting X person to promote a game when that money could have gone towards the game itself.
I think we millennials are the biggest consumers of console gaming while gen z has a phone for gaming in their face and or prefers a PC. We obviously remember bragging about bits back in the day and each gen was a true significant jump in graphics unlike now where we talk about teraflops, its barely noticable unless someone from Digital Foundry zooms in 600Xs to just see the difference. In most cases no while actually in the moment of gaming notices, unless its a poorly made or low budget game.
“Game today are so bad I miss the games before the 2020s” -2024 “Games today are so bad I miss the games before the 2010s” -2014 “Games today are so bad I miss the games before the 1990s” -2004 “Games today are so bad I miss the games before the 1980s” -1994
So games get worse and worse ;) For some series thats true. Final Fantasy peaked in the PS1 era. Never had so much fun and wonder again with the series (i do like FF7 rebirth and FF16 but both have their problems). Many games lack interesting content too, games get streamlined, woke, prude or afraid to trigger anyone on any side etc. Its a matter of taste too and for me not everything has gotten worse. After years of stopping gaming some games brought me back. Witcher 3, Life is Strange 1, Deponia, Trails in the Sky, later the Xenoblade games on Switch and Breath of the wild.
At this point I wonder if everything peaked. Movies, games, phones, TVs, even story concepts in general. Now everything is a remake with minimal upgrades. At some point we were so focused on the next thing we didn’t realize we were in the best era of gaming and tech in general.
The next step should be that we can have a stable performance across gaming, with 4K visuals and at least 60fps. That's the goal and should be standard when the PS5 Pro and PS6 are out. HDR support should also be the norm.
It should've be standard with PS4 Pro and PS5. There is no way console games in the 2020s are still running sub 60FPS. Developers should be punished by the consumers by not even purchasing the damned mess. They don't care because consumers still pay money and support their laziness, instead of earning it.
Well, looking at Cyberpunks2077 path tracing settings... there is a long way to go. Sure, consoles won't get there until like a PS6 Pro or PS7, but still. It's more a question of is it worth it? Not just performance vise, but also the production costs. Nintendo proves that a combination of a very good art direction and quality gameplay, that you can succeed without spending millions on visuals.
I'm 39 I've been following all you guys before you had Sunday night group streams I appreciate all your views. Keep it up. Much love from Ramulux on the original Xbox hahaha
The emphasis on graphics in new hardware is interesting. Because pretty and impressive graphics are something you're only gonna notice in the first hour of playing a new game. The "oh look how great this looks" then after that you're focused on gameplay. Unless the game does something to showcase it. Like a scenic cutscene.
We've gotten to the point where visuals have diminishing returns. The only things we can expect now that has major improvements over previous gens is fps, and ray tracing.
I would like to go back to the era (N64/PS1-GameCube/PS2) where games were completed and fixed with bugs before it shiped to consumers! Let's go back to that please!
I think for the average person, performance/visuals are good enough on the base consoles. Even Switch is more or less passable for many millions of gamers, yes we know it has hardware from 2015 inside but it still is generally superior to 7th gen consoles and can sometimes match 8th generation. Tech-focused people with enough disposable income will still buy the upgraded version of everything but it's a luxury and not worth the minimal improvements given the high cost involved (for the majority of people who play video games).
NPC AI is a pretty big path for development in my opinion. The Last of Us 2's enemies would call out their friend's name and have emotional reactions if you kill them, or something like a nemesis system (if they can get around the patent) is another gameplay based element. It'd be awesome to play something like an Uncharted/Indiana Jones style treasure hunt game and you develop a more customized relationship with an adversary based on your actions.
They haven't. However, game development is bogged down. It needs to be better. Even with 16k visuals, if humans still look and move like robots... that sucks.
I wouldn't say the visuals have peaked exactly, but they have definitely stagnated. There's not much they can feasibly do that would be enough of a jump to warrant a new console YET I think. What games need NOW though is interactivity and finer details. As another youtube said, games need more "Ice Bucket" these days. Things that you can interact with, things that add to the world, things to look at and enjoy that just make you go "wow" but not in a visual way exactly. More mechanics that add to the gameplay of various games instead of focusing on the details. For example, imagine if all of the resources that go into a current AAA game, went into something with PS2 graphics instead. If they just focus less on visuals now, and more on the games themselves, that's the key I think for the time being. Also I know VR isn't for everyone, but I really do think it's going to be the next big leap in however long that takes.
As far as graphics, I feel like we're well past the point of diminishing returns. As far as gaming as a whole? Has it peaked? That's a weird question cause I'm wondering if we've reached the bottom of the valley yet cause it peaked during the 6th gen and has been going downhill since.
PS5 already peak for me. Most people already satisfied or even bored with realistic graphic. Thats why we go back to simpler graphic and fun gameplay at Nintendo Switch.
i remember playing Blast Corps on n64 thinking this was the best destruction physics i'd had ever seen. that gameplay hasnt been repeated since. graphics be damned, they need more interesting game concepts.
Gaming hasn't peaked. It's current marketing strategy has. We started out with everyone only caring about bits. Once that was maxed out, Then it was how many polygons. After we reached a zenith for that, it was all about resolution. Now we are in between the old standard, resolution and the new hip thing: shading and lighting. The PS pro is already championing its ray tracing. And rumor has it that will be the big innovation for the switch 2.
The older gamers never needed to care about realism coming from systems like the NES and older, or even the 16-bit era. I think we just wanted graphics to get better. That was the expectation. But now that we’re at the point where it can’t get much if any better than this, then perfect. In my mind, that just tells me that they can just focus on making games more stylized and mechanically interesting. That’s always mattered.
How can video game graphics plateued when the PS5 is at least 4 times more powerful than a PS4? And the PS6 is only a few years away. We should easily get real life graphics but we don't because we have stupid people like you that have no common sense and are paying inflated prices for a PS4 level game and graphics to play on your PS5s.
@@PositionOffsetGaming Then you haven't learned a single thing about video game graphics and my point for you having no common sense still stands. Learning game graphics 30 years ago is useless to what game graphics is about today because technologies change, and today's tech isn't the same and have nothing to do with what happened 30 years ago. Also, there are a lot of guys making video games looking like real life just by using UE5 engine and doing it all by themselves at home for fun in the last few years now. So You're telling me a video game company with billions of dollars and hundreds of professional devs can only make games with 10 years old outdated PS4 graphics using modern PC that's at least 10-20 times faster than a PS4 while some random guy can make real life graphic games by himself at home!?
@@handsomejustin it sounds like you must be talking about something more than pure graphics then. But no, I've been along for the whole ride, each phase of evolution and in terms of rendering, there's not much more we can fake in rasterization, it's time to move to simulation of photons. Even Unreal uses a form of software ray tracing to achieve Lumen. If raster could achieve full realism why do all pre-rendered graphics use ray tracing? There's a limit to how much we can fake in terms of having the computer draw rather than simulate the lighting and details
@@PositionOffsetGaming You can already make games with real life graphics on UE5 by yourself at home right now. They haven't released a single game with real life graphics in the past 3 years because the video game industry only cares about making 10 year old outdated PS4 games to make a quick buck for themselves and the investors.
Creativity not only centers around the art, which falls back on graphics performance, but also how wacky the gameplay can be. A few good examples would be Mario and Luigi, Kirby Mass Attack, Killer 7, Ape Escape, and Astro Bot, of course. A writer from Klasky Csupo satated in his interview that, "You can use the latest, most interesting design elements in your work, but what's the point if it doesn't have a soul?"
I wouldn't say gaming as a whole has peaked, but graphics in gaming have reached its peak. I've never really been a graphics stickler, and that especially holds true today. I'll take a game with smooth framerate at 1440p or 1080p versus a game at 4K with all of the bells and whistles at a lower framerate.
The steps up the ladder keeps getting smaller, to the point where most people don't care anymore. It's not like going from the games on PS3 to "Killzone Shadow Fall" on the PS4. That was a huge jump and even people not interested in tech and graphics could appreciate it! And maybe also the last time we would see that kind of jump.
It’s not all about visuals, it’s about doubling the fps from 30 to 60fps, or 60 to 120fps. Everyone complains about 30 fps, then Sony gives you a 60 fps option, then everyone complains about that! Most people are just seething over the price though since Sony did not subsidize the PRO like the standard model.
Detroit become human on the ps4 still looks mind blowing to me, but looks is only the half of it. Fluid movement, realistic physics, and engaging gameplay together with the visuals are what really make the presentation special. Visuals alone is like the icing on the cake, but you still need a cake made from high quality ingredients inside or all you’ve really got is a bunch of fancy sugar.
I want to see more environmental effects, world density, npc ai enhancements, and destructibility. Those features were at the forefront on the PS3 gen although limited by the hardware but a lot of games targeted those mostly cpu heavy tasks, nowadays we want the cpu to focus on frames over game enhancements
it's growing pretty darn well, just not in the "AAA" space I've been eating pretty well with all the indies and retro games i've been getting to play Most new games i play nowadays are either long-time MOBAs I grew up with or the occassional multiplayer games i play with friends
I believe the biggest jumps in graphics must fall to developers at this point. There needs to be a lot more effort in character animation especially. For example, the GTA 6 trailer makes it look like the most graphically impressive video game ever made, but it falls apart with facial expressions and body movement. Animation in film is always about a decade ahead but we have yet to see facial animations look as good as Avatar for realistic art styles or Up (Pixar), both of which came out in 2009.
Once we hit 4K visuals on the PS4 Pro and the Xbox One X we pretty much peeked in Fidelity what we need now is frame rates to get faster and interactivity and World detail and physics to improve. That's the next frontier. Graphics and textures are fine and resolution is great and all but we need more of a focus on interactivity physics and world detail.
Until we get a Holodeck I am perfectly fine with graphics as they stand. I prefer my system to run the game smoothly without hiccups. 1080p 60 is fine with me, 1440p 60 only if there is no slowdown.
Yes. Visuals have. People (developers, higher ups, and consumers) need to get over it. Do not expect a huge jump to the ps6/ Xbox ___. I mean current gen can’t even handle a lot of games right now at smooth frame rate and visuals.
8:07 I believe games don't need to move towards realism anymore. Personally, my gripes with lower res consoles like PS3/ Xbox 360 and prior, were jaggies and blurry textures. That is no longer a problem. I think most people just want games to look pretty and clear rather than ultra realistic and boring.
I think the next innovation would be having actual competent developers that OPTIMIZATION and GAME MECHANICS as more important than how pretty your shadows look
They're focusing too much on improving graphics, to the point we didn't even notice. What's worse, we made it clear performance is preferred over fidelity, and they still try to enhance graphics over improving performance.
This is such a good point, graphically not really a huge difference from ps4 to ps5 from the naked eye, but performance is noticeably better. I think a number of factors have to be in place for it to really evolve back into that wow factor like technology has to advance a whole lot more and economically things have to be cheaper etc.
I like to think of gaming now like realism in art. There's a point in art where super realism in portraits and landscapes get boring. What we need is creativity and style, we need the Van Gogh era of gaming now that there's not much more developers can do to push visually without spending 300mil+ and a 5-8 year dev cycle.
The “feature” I want to see is Sony actually giving the full PS1, PS2, PSP library and push past the licensing barriers. Sure games like Tomb Raider 1-3 and Legacy of Kain have their own releases, but I want to see them as they were in Sonys emulator with the save states and rewind features. Just game preservation as a whole regardless to new versions releasing
I think the industry peaked 10-15 years ago and hasn't done much to innovate the medium further. It's mostly been how to further monetize our "product" for as much money as possible.
People like you are stupid. PS4 is barely as powerful as an iPhone. Yet the lazy devs made games that look the same so they can sell more units. a PS2 game within the same generation look FAR APART from each other in terms of graphics. Yet people like you think a PS5 with at least 4 times the power should have graphics that look the same as PS4?
The next Gen should focus on insane frame rates for all titles. The fidelity is high enough where the pixels can't get any more detailed, especially with what Unreal Engine 5 can already do (even without ray tracing). If the baseline performance gets to a solid 60 fps, then the games can be built around aesthetics instead of realism. It still takes artistry to assemble a game with a consistent interesting look, but if the engines and hardware can solve things like performance and calculated real lighting, then the artists can concentrate on making a world that's fun to play or live in, rather than being constrained by what fits in video memory.
Well I don't want an 8k TV.. so once they have 4k 60 down, there is nowhere to go. What exactly does your next gen console or graphics card get me? Especially as the upgrade will be very expensive.
Nowhere? PSVR2 renders a 2K square for each eye, and many games drop the resolution in order to keep a 90-120 Hz minimum. We have a lot of room for improvement.
4K is kind of the upper limit for most home setups anyway. Like unless you have an absurdly huge TV or sit absurdly close, you're not going to notice any difference. It can even be hard to tell 4K versus 1080p on common set sizes. You need 4x the graphics horsepower to render it at native 8K resolution over 4K. Doesn't seem worth it.
Evolution of hardware now is about consoles getting "better" at being this powerful, and being smaller, so perhaps PlayStation 6 or 7 will be a hybrid device. These companies can also focus on ways to make things easier and better for developers, so they can create more effectively. There's probably a lot of optimization and simplification to be worked on.
Part of the reason I'm getting the PS5 Pro is for the improvements to PSVR2. 30 FPS is not an option for VR, and even 60 FPS isn't enough. Hence most VR games are sacrificing image quality significantly to reach 90-120 Hz minimums. Foveated rendering helps to a degree, but we really need a more powerful system capable of 4K per eye, with greater details.
Nintendo saw that chasing graphics was an expensive bad move with the game cube, and focused on innovations (gimmicks) to see what would stick or resonate with the customers. I think Sony came to the the same realisation with their adaptive triggers. I think going forward we are going to see some whacky innovations to try and corner the next gen market
“If you’re playing your game and sunlight is coming through your window onto your TV, you’re not seeing any ray tracing. It has to be super optimal… you have to have an 8K monitor in a dark room to see these things." If this is a real quote from Shawn Layden, I get why he was fired. That's so ignorant and tech illiterate that I'm baffeled he was ever hired in the first place, if that's a quote of his.
Gaming peaked When MGS2 blew my brain open, and then blew my brain open again all these years later. What a beautiful mindfuc of a game. If you haven't already, listen to the Colonel's monologue in MGS2. THAT is peak gaming.
In terms of graphics, there's still work to be done in terms of lighting (especially efficiency) and materials. It's very obvious you're playing a game still while in VR. We've gotten to a pretty good point on a 2D screen though. But over time, it's only natural for more effort to give you diminishing returns. We have definitely peaked in polygon counts though. That's probably what we've been focused up to this point. RT lowers development time so it is definitely here to stay. That's its real value to developers.
It peaked as far as budgets can afford. Only A.I can help push things further, and it could cut down costs for developers where it's worth increasing the visuals further.
Yeah, the difference in quality from PS1 to PS2 to PS3 was something obvious even on lower res CRTs, and they blew our minds, while now we see these ridiculous zoomed in comparisons of small areas of the screen at 4K resolutions, just that we can see the difference.
I am a old time gamer i'm 70 now and still playing video games have a xbox series x and still have my xbox one x, my gaming started with pong and still going strong love the technology and amazing graphics of today games
Perhaps the next gen will heavily lean on AI Upscalling, frame generation and RT.. as it makes the most sense in mass consumer gaming consoles...quite exciting to be fair as the ai stuff will go much further than the traditional tflop grunt and power that we usually look for.
Growing up, I was more interested in Xbox and Playstation around the 360 and PS3 days because of the graphics. Nowadays, im more interested in Nintendo and the indie scene because of the gameplay.
It's really hard to see where it goes from here. Not to sound pompous, but having been gaming consistently at 4K on a 4090 for awhile now and getting ready to move to a 5090 it's hard to see visually and performance wise where this goes. 8K? I mean most PC gamers would rather stick with the higher refresh rates at 2K with it only just now starting to replace 1080p. I'm sure gaming is on a collision course with more sophisticated upscaling technologies (for better or worse at this point). As for the games themselves -- developers have some serious soul searching to do. Make games that players want to play. It's really not difficult.
The horsepower arms race is pretty much over, so now it’s up to studios to think laterally with existing technology and utilize it to create new and interesting experiences. That doesn’t mean gaming has peaked, but it does mean that just increasing the graphical fidelity of games is simply no longer a selling point, nor is it sustainable for development pipelines.
Crazily uninformed comment lol
This bullshit has been said ever since the PlayStation 1
Will never need anything more than 1080P will never need anything more than 480p. As long as it's a billion dollar industry, they'll keep making reasons for us to buy new shit. I promise you
@@pool842 look up Moore's law, and the slow down to increases in processing power that has been going on for years. We are literally approaching a plateau in terms of increases in processing power. It may be many more years before we HIT that plateau, and some creative solutions have been found to try and keep Moore's law going, but we are indeed approaching a plateau, and acting like we can keep cramming more processing power into the same size ad infinitum is itself ignorant.
@@juvenilemrcia2664 thank you for responding to this troll way better than I ever could have
Gaming hasn't peaked, gaming industry has hit the wall of lack of creativity.
Its pure formula now.
I agree…
No. Just a few AAA companies hit that wall. There are lot of companies (like Nintendo) who do not lack creativity. Or Indie devs, who saved the gaming industry in my opinion.
Yeah I'm sick of the open world formula copying ALA the ubisoft playbook. Same is true of live service games you don't need to make every product a 300 mil boom or bust investment to be successful with mainly those two genres
A@@thingsiplayExactly, people act like since Ubisoft and other companies with big franchises are stale, the whole industry is stale. I've played tons of great games this year.
Agreed, I have hopes that AI will really change this. Make production easier (more focus on creativity), improve visuals, give games the ability to be more dynamic, and when we get NPCs with high quality AI interactions it could really be a wow moment.
I’ve been playing video games since the 1970’s still playing today at 57!😎
Do your kids play?
That's awesome! Life goals 🙌🏾
50 here too .... Same with me ( come a long way since atari 2600 lol)
@@thezx5795 Don’t have kids to old to have them now
@@vincentsolomitajr4029 never to late look at Pacino, Clooney,Deniro ,Steven Tyler etc....🤔
I really couldn't care less about raytracing.
I agree 100%, I am able to use ray tracing on my PC and I don’t because it’s very taxing and it is very overrated! 1440P, 60 frames per second, maxed settings is perfect for me!
8k and I'd say even 4k are completely unnecessary right now, loading times and stability is what they should be working on.
@@DK24S I agree with 8k but 4k is noticeable on larger TV sets. 4k 60 fps should be the standard at least imo 120 fps is nice but 60 is good enough
I only care about Ray tracing insofar as the tech creates easy to use lighting system to take less dev time on the simulations that we have been using for years but we are still a generation shy of that being a reliable tool for developers to use to skip the more programmer/designer based lighting models. I will state that I am a bit sick of screen space reflections and their built in artefacts at this point but not so much that it makes ray-tracing essential. A good use of cube maps and screen space often times is so good if done correctly that ray-tracing wouldn't really be needed. But cube maps take time so hence my initial statement.
Same, not only do I find it to be a minor improvement even in the best examples, but a lot of the time it looks worse than traditional lighting methods, and it takes SO many resources to do at a fidelity that looks nice.
I miss when games were simply made for fun and that's it. If I'm having fun I'm not going to notice how accurate some shadows are smh
I miss shmups and RTS games.
Exactly political correctness ruined everything
@@AA_dagr8t that was never a reality, we used to measure bits, enemy on screens, FPS not to the same extend as now, visual quality, bumper mapping, etc etc. that was always in games. Since the 70s.
Graphics pushing has been here for decades. Seriously, how did you miss the Genesis? The entire marketing was how much the NES was garbage compared to the 16 bit behemoth.
@@SakuraAvalonyeah and look how that went Nintendo won. 😂 It doesn't matter how nice the game looks if it's not fun. Too many groups are chasing the games as a service model. They've(Sony and Microsoft) have been largely neglecting the single player market.
Nearly all innovation happens in the A and AA sector now…
All AAA games are afraid and risk adverse
AAA Worried about Graphics & Micro Transactions
A & AA Quality & Fun
I wouldn't say gaming has peaked, but people put too much stock in graphics without understanding it's purpose. From the SNES/Sega Genesis to the transition to PS1/N64/Sega CD we went from 2D pixels to 3D models, so yes graphics were important.
From the PS1/N64/Sega CD to the transition to PS2/Sega Dreamcast/Xbox/Gamecube era, graphics were important to understand the surroundings and character models building upon it's predecessor. Xbox/PS2 to 360/PS3 again was necessary to further detail character models and environments. No more blocky hands but actual hands with fingers and honestly I would argue that graphics had achieved it's purpose at this point.
But from PS3/360 to PS4/Xbox One perfected what was built on the previous gen with further aesthetics and detail, getting rid of any additional blurriness. At that point imo graphics didn't matter as much because the importance and purpose of it was already achieved up to that point. We understand the environment, the character models in detail where it's easy to see what's going on, no blurriness.
Graphics now are just eye candy, there was always a purpose going from one generation to the next. But I don't see the reason anymore to spend so much time and resources when the purpose has already been achieved in the last generation.
From PS4 to PS5 we should easily get almost real life graphics that run perfectly well on mid tier PC parts.
We don't because we have greedy devs making quick buck for investors, while having stupid gamers like you with no common sense and is just coping with outdated PS4 garbage games while paying inflated prices to play on their PS5s.
If anybody disagrees with me, lets do the math and I'll just focus on exclusives and not counting remasters.
Nintendo has:
3 Zelda Games (Tears of The Kingdom, Echoes of Wisdom, Hyrule Warriors Age of Calamity)
12 Mario Games (Odyssey, Mario Maker 2/ Super Mario Bros Wonder/Mario Tennis: Aces/Mario Golf: Super Rush/Mario Strikers: Battle League/ Mario Rabbids: Kingdom Battle/Sparks of Hope/Luigi's Mansion 3/Paper Mario: Origami King/ Princess Peach Showtime/Mario and Luigi Brothership)
2 Xenoblade Games (Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and 3)
3 Mario Party Games (Super Mario Party/Superstars/Jambouree)
3 Kirby Games (Forgotten Land, Kirby Fighters 2, Dream Buffet)
1 Metroid Game (Metroid Dread)
1 Super Smash Bros (Ultimate)
3 Fire Emblem Games (Three Hopes/Engage/Warriors)
1 New 3D RPG (Astral Chain)
4 Pokemon Games (Legends Arceus/Sword Shield/ Scarlet Violet/Brilliant Diamond Shining Pearl)
Playstation has:
1 God of War (Ragnarok)
1 Final Fantasy (Rebirth)
1 Ratchet and Clank (Rift Apart)
1 Horizon (Forbidden West)
1 Spiderman (Spiderman 2)
1 Gran Turismo (Gran Turismo 7)
5 New IP's (Stellar Blade/Ghost of Tsushima/Astrobot/Destruction Allstars/Returnal)
Xbox has:
1 Halo (Infinite)
1 Forza (Forza 5)
1 Hellblade (Hellblade 2)
1 Gears of War (E-Day)
1 Stalker (Stalker 2)
1 Alan Wake (Alan Wake 2)
5 New IP's (Avowed/South of Midnight/Expedition 33/Starfield/Hi-fi Rush)
Nintendo who doesn't focus on graphics has a total of 33 new games released this generation. Whereas Playstation has 11 games released this generation, and Xbox has 5 games released and 6 planned releases. Focusing on too much graphics is what's holding these companies back from releasing more games and just focusing on fun gameplay mechanics.
Nothing to disagree with especially with your first comment here. Well said through and through.
old gamers know there's nothing wrong with 1080p. 1440p and 4k are awesome, but not necessary.
Frame rates are always king. 👑
You won't say that if you ever got to see how 4k or even 2k looks. It's just like people saying 30 fps is all we need.
I play at 1440P on PC and I agree that 1080P is just fine!
@@Pulverizer2000I have 5 4k TVs, 4 of which are Oleds. All I really need is my 1080p monitor to game.
@@socalju2447 no you don't have 4 4k oleds. No one on this crazy planet is crazy enough to ditch their 4k OLED for a 1080p display. How old are you
Exactly and older gamers also no that 30fps is also ok, sure 60fps is awesome but as long as the gameplay is smooth then it doesn’t matter to me if the game runs at 30 or 60fps.
Short answer yes we reached diminishing returns in terms of graphics
That STILL does NOT mean that gaming has peaked whatsoever.
Anyone who believes that is ignorant. 🤣🤣🤣
@@PSYCHOV3N0Mrealistic graphics has peaked. The statement is true
No not really. Ive been gaming for over 30 years and people have been saying this for decades. Even the best looking games can still look significantly better and get way better performance. I saw so many people saying that the Alan wake 2 ps5 pro update looks exactly the same and they showed the differences quite clearly lol.
@@josephhooks1292 lol
We did not. There is so much room with RayTracing (the biggest game changer in graphics if its done well). And all of that with 120 fps at 4k native, not like 30 fps upscaled from 720p on modern consoles. Also Unreal Engine and AI tools allow for faster creation of worlds and human faces (and voices), that developers will have more time to finetune and create the real important parts of the game themselves.
Gaming peaked 10 years ago.
I would say it peaked in 2018 when there were a lot of great games coming out with God of War 2018, Red Dead Redemption 2, Spiderman, Assassins Creed Odyssey etcetera...
Since then everything has been in a slow decline
@@NordicWildSoul i agree except for Assassins Creed, i think the first 4 games are gold and the latest ones are mid.
You aren’t going to see a graphical powerhouse game because that market isn’t big enough to support it now.
The last real game to push people to buy new cutting edge hardware was Crysis and that cost 22 million to develop. With the way budgets are now studios cannot afford to develop a game that force people to go out and buy 4090s only for that to barely run it with everything it’s doing.
The order 1886 still looks incredible nearly 10 years later.
That game looked insane when it came out.
I’m a 48 year old gamer. I been playing games since the Atari and Apple II pc days. I now wear glasses because, well my eyes are just old and I need reading glasses to read and watch tv. At this point, I can’t tell the difference between Mario Odyssey and Ratchet & Clank running in fidelity mode. I care more about FPS now because I can tell the difference between a smooth frame rate and a jittery one.
Also, being the same age as you Jon, you made me feel old with that line about "being teens and having the whole world in front of you". We're not even 40 yet though, I refuse to admit that I am old (while simultaneously knowing that it's getting close).
We're not old, just experienced
To me I want more art. Id rather have an artistic choice then have realistic graphics.
VR was supposed to be the next leap in gaming
Games like Splatoon, Mario Odyssey, Metroid Dread/Prime, Zelda show that we DONT NEED A LOT OF RESOURCE POWER. We just need good stylized games. It saves costs the games look good and focus on fun stories
Honestly, as a 44-year-old gamer I think that the visuals have been fine for a couple generations. Biggest selling point to me. This generation has been extremely fast loading times and the dual sense controller with the taptic feedback and adaptive triggers. like Hardware is the limitation anymore as much as it’s just game developers not optimizing their games to run smoothly. I honestly don’t know what the next generation could offer to give you that wow factor.
With the exception of Tales Of Arise, One Piece Oddessy, & gacha games, the fact that all the ps5 games I’ve played have been just sequels or ps4 native/crossover games says a lot about how Sony doesn’t have too many brand new IP these days. I would like to get Metaphor Rephantazio eventually though
I don't care about anything "looking better (pixels)", but please just give us 60 fps as the standard!
Graphically => Yes.
Playable => Debatable.
That's a good point, everything is now focused on visuals when there is still plenty of work to be done in terms of interactivity and mechanics and game design.
I think people like you are stupid.
How is having PS4 graphics 10 years after its release "peaked" ?
Computers have evolved and progressed so much, a GPU now is at least 10-20 times faster than a PS4, and you're telling me grahpics still should look the same in 2024 as a PS4 with 10 times less graphical power!?
I find ray tracing is most noticeable in darker environments as it usually enables them to be dark whilst they're not going completely black and hard to see.
You need to have a nice OLED tv
What really need improvement is physics, especially collision detection.
I think we will have hit peak the moment clipping never happens in games. Objects clipping through each other is something I wonder if we will ever have even mostly resolved.
"maybe its pricing". HECK YEAH ITS PRICING!!!!
Ive been really having fun with retro gaming lately.
The fact that you have to zoom in x200 to see any difference now says everything
The best part of ray tracing is the reflections from water, glass, windows, surfaces etc. It should only be that let HDR do the rest
What annoys me the most is how companies like Square Enix damaged their main franchises like Final Fantasy for being affraid of do a mainline turn based title and instead they go for the least risk route (action oriented games) and disguise that as "EvOlUtiOn"...
They've been trying different systems, from proper turn-based to ATB to MMO-like for the entire series. They settled on the one that people actually like. That *is* evolution.,
At least they still have Dragon Quest staying with the turn based combat, for the people that still like it
@@Cryptic0013 No. The most successful franchises usually stick to their core gameplay and what made them big to begin with, at least with their mainline games.
Metal Gear, Devil May Cry, Persona, (and the list goes on) follow that pattern, they actually evolved their gameplay while keeping their identity and core mechanics.
Heck, just look what FromSoftware has accomplished. They were aware the soulsborne games are enjoyed by a niche demographic, yet they keep making their core mechanic better each interation, to the point Elden Ring is basically a main stream game now. Changing your flagship franchise genre (it is basically DMC now) just to appeal a wider demographic is not evolving.
@@LG555 a large chunk of FF fanbase has been craving for a turn based mainline game for decades now, so I just kinda wish we don't have to search in other franchises what we enjoyed when FF was known for being some of the best RPG series out there (snes/psone era).
@@azulion At the risk of belaboring the point... they've changed the core combat in every iteration for the last 30 years, and it hasn't been true turn-based since the SNES days (other than a flirtation with something close to it with FFX).
Most gamers today aren't old enough to remember it being turn-based, unless you count ATB as such, and they haven't even used ATB since the PS2 era when they went over to a more real-time system for FFXII.
You're harping on them for 'changing' something that's been gone for 20 years.
The real wow factor would be getting stable 60 fps across all gaming platforms for starters.
So PS2
Companies have to learn... what is more important, a game with 2% better graphics or a game that has a great story, is fun to play, and engages the player? Quality of game vs quality of graphics, I 'll take quality of game every time. Also they NEED to learn how to reduce expenses, constantly charging more and more, not a recipe for success. Sell more at lower prices vs limited market high expense items.
I find it funny how some are saying that the technology has peaked… when that happens should Nintendo’s console finally not be outdated 😂
The visuals and performance for most games these days seem more dependent on how well a game is made than how much hardware and power is available for a game to utilize. We have cases now where games that came out around a decade ago look better than games that come out now (Ubisoft games, the Arkham Batman games as a couple of examples). My guess for the stagnation we seem to be seeing industry-wide is that talent and creativity is being stifled by executives who focus too much on maximizing profits and administrators who focus too much on making sure everything is as inoffensive as possible.
Gaming peaked when “number go up” became more important than making creative art.
This is why I appreciate games like MGSV and DS. They look great, they don't need to look any better, and they have great gameplay mechanics. Devs need to stop spending money on adding so many little details to textures and start expanding gameplay mechanics. One of the best examples I've seen in recent years is Spider-Man when you traverse along buildings and the animations change. Instead of just having Spider-Man body check scaffolding, he actually navigates it properly.
And celebrities/influences, don't forget how much money they waste on getting X person to promote a game when that money could have gone towards the game itself.
I think we millennials are the biggest consumers of console gaming while gen z has a phone for gaming in their face and or prefers a PC.
We obviously remember bragging about bits back in the day and each gen was a true significant jump in graphics unlike now where we talk about teraflops, its barely noticable unless someone from Digital Foundry zooms in 600Xs to just see the difference.
In most cases no while actually in the moment of gaming notices, unless its a poorly made or low budget game.
“Game today are so bad I miss the games before the 2020s” -2024
“Games today are so bad I miss the games before the 2010s” -2014
“Games today are so bad I miss the games before the 1990s” -2004
“Games today are so bad I miss the games before the 1980s” -1994
So games get worse and worse ;) For some series thats true. Final Fantasy peaked in the PS1 era. Never had so much fun and wonder again with the series (i do like FF7 rebirth and FF16 but both have their problems). Many games lack interesting content too, games get streamlined, woke, prude or afraid to trigger anyone on any side etc. Its a matter of taste too and for me not everything has gotten worse. After years of stopping gaming some games brought me back. Witcher 3, Life is Strange 1, Deponia, Trails in the Sky, later the Xenoblade games on Switch and Breath of the wild.
GTFOH. No one was saying that in 2004. 🙄
At this point I wonder if everything peaked. Movies, games, phones, TVs, even story concepts in general. Now everything is a remake with minimal upgrades. At some point we were so focused on the next thing we didn’t realize we were in the best era of gaming and tech in general.
I just find it crazy despite crazy advancements in technology we’re still often just playing higher res versions of traditional games.
The next step should be that we can have a stable performance across gaming, with 4K visuals and at least 60fps. That's the goal and should be standard when the PS5 Pro and PS6 are out. HDR support should also be the norm.
It should've be standard with PS4 Pro and PS5.
There is no way console games in the 2020s are still running sub 60FPS.
Developers should be punished by the consumers by not even purchasing the damned mess.
They don't care because consumers still pay money and support their laziness, instead of earning it.
Well, looking at Cyberpunks2077 path tracing settings... there is a long way to go. Sure, consoles won't get there until like a PS6 Pro or PS7, but still.
It's more a question of is it worth it? Not just performance vise, but also the production costs.
Nintendo proves that a combination of a very good art direction and quality gameplay, that you can succeed without spending millions on visuals.
I'm 39 I've been following all you guys before you had Sunday night group streams I appreciate all your views. Keep it up. Much love from Ramulux on the original Xbox hahaha
The emphasis on graphics in new hardware is interesting. Because pretty and impressive graphics are something you're only gonna notice in the first hour of playing a new game. The "oh look how great this looks" then after that you're focused on gameplay. Unless the game does something to showcase it. Like a scenic cutscene.
We've gotten to the point where visuals have diminishing returns. The only things we can expect now that has major improvements over previous gens is fps, and ray tracing.
I would like to go back to the era (N64/PS1-GameCube/PS2) where games were completed and fixed with bugs before it shiped to consumers! Let's go back to that please!
I think for the average person, performance/visuals are good enough on the base consoles. Even Switch is more or less passable for many millions of gamers, yes we know it has hardware from 2015 inside but it still is generally superior to 7th gen consoles and can sometimes match 8th generation. Tech-focused people with enough disposable income will still buy the upgraded version of everything but it's a luxury and not worth the minimal improvements given the high cost involved (for the majority of people who play video games).
NPC AI is a pretty big path for development in my opinion. The Last of Us 2's enemies would call out their friend's name and have emotional reactions if you kill them, or something like a nemesis system (if they can get around the patent) is another gameplay based element. It'd be awesome to play something like an Uncharted/Indiana Jones style treasure hunt game and you develop a more customized relationship with an adversary based on your actions.
They haven't. However, game development is bogged down. It needs to be better. Even with 16k visuals, if humans still look and move like robots... that sucks.
I wouldn't say the visuals have peaked exactly, but they have definitely stagnated. There's not much they can feasibly do that would be enough of a jump to warrant a new console YET I think. What games need NOW though is interactivity and finer details. As another youtube said, games need more "Ice Bucket" these days. Things that you can interact with, things that add to the world, things to look at and enjoy that just make you go "wow" but not in a visual way exactly. More mechanics that add to the gameplay of various games instead of focusing on the details. For example, imagine if all of the resources that go into a current AAA game, went into something with PS2 graphics instead. If they just focus less on visuals now, and more on the games themselves, that's the key I think for the time being. Also I know VR isn't for everyone, but I really do think it's going to be the next big leap in however long that takes.
As far as graphics, I feel like we're well past the point of diminishing returns. As far as gaming as a whole? Has it peaked? That's a weird question cause I'm wondering if we've reached the bottom of the valley yet cause it peaked during the 6th gen and has been going downhill since.
PS5 already peak for me. Most people already satisfied or even bored with realistic graphic. Thats why we go back to simpler graphic and fun gameplay at Nintendo Switch.
Even buggy Pokemon Scarlett and Violet can sold 24 million copy. And i bought it too 😅
It peaked 20 years ago
Yep.
Maybe the future is VR. That still has room for massive improvement. But yeah, totally agree.
i remember playing Blast Corps on n64 thinking this was the best destruction physics i'd had ever seen. that gameplay hasnt been repeated since. graphics be damned, they need more interesting game concepts.
Gaming hasn't peaked. It's current marketing strategy has. We started out with everyone only caring about bits. Once that was maxed out, Then it was how many polygons. After we reached a zenith for that, it was all about resolution.
Now we are in between the old standard, resolution and the new hip thing: shading and lighting. The PS pro is already championing its ray tracing. And rumor has it that will be the big innovation for the switch 2.
The older gamers never needed to care about realism coming from systems like the NES and older, or even the 16-bit era. I think we just wanted graphics to get better. That was the expectation. But now that we’re at the point where it can’t get much if any better than this, then perfect. In my mind, that just tells me that they can just focus on making games more stylized and mechanically interesting. That’s always mattered.
Speaking of budget gpu cards. My very first gpu card was the 750ti. That card was amazing for the price it cost.
Raster visuals have plateaued, yes. Hence the need for path tracing before we can move any further graphically
How can video game graphics plateued when the PS5 is at least 4 times more powerful than a PS4? And the PS6 is only a few years away.
We should easily get real life graphics but we don't because we have stupid people like you that have no common sense and are paying inflated prices for a PS4 level game and graphics to play on your PS5s.
@@handsomejustin no, I've studied game graphics for 30+ years now. Raster has peaked
@@PositionOffsetGaming Then you haven't learned a single thing about video game graphics and my point for you having no common sense still stands.
Learning game graphics 30 years ago is useless to what game graphics is about today because technologies change, and today's tech isn't the same and have nothing to do with what happened 30 years ago.
Also, there are a lot of guys making video games looking like real life just by using UE5 engine and doing it all by themselves at home for fun in the last few years now.
So You're telling me a video game company with billions of dollars and hundreds of professional devs can only make games with 10 years old outdated PS4 graphics using modern PC that's at least 10-20 times faster than a PS4 while some random guy can make real life graphic games by himself at home!?
@@handsomejustin it sounds like you must be talking about something more than pure graphics then.
But no, I've been along for the whole ride, each phase of evolution and in terms of rendering, there's not much more we can fake in rasterization, it's time to move to simulation of photons. Even Unreal uses a form of software ray tracing to achieve Lumen. If raster could achieve full realism why do all pre-rendered graphics use ray tracing? There's a limit to how much we can fake in terms of having the computer draw rather than simulate the lighting and details
@@PositionOffsetGaming You can already make games with real life graphics on UE5 by yourself at home right now.
They haven't released a single game with real life graphics in the past 3 years because the video game industry only cares about making 10 year old outdated PS4 games to make a quick buck for themselves and the investors.
Creativity not only centers around the art, which falls back on graphics performance, but also how wacky the gameplay can be. A few good examples would be Mario and Luigi, Kirby Mass Attack, Killer 7, Ape Escape, and Astro Bot, of course.
A writer from Klasky Csupo satated in his interview that, "You can use the latest, most interesting design elements in your work, but what's the point if it doesn't have a soul?"
I wouldn't say gaming as a whole has peaked, but graphics in gaming have reached its peak. I've never really been a graphics stickler, and that especially holds true today. I'll take a game with smooth framerate at 1440p or 1080p versus a game at 4K with all of the bells and whistles at a lower framerate.
The steps up the ladder keeps getting smaller, to the point where most people don't care anymore. It's not like going from the games on PS3 to "Killzone Shadow Fall" on the PS4.
That was a huge jump and even people not interested in tech and graphics could appreciate it! And maybe also the last time we would see that kind of jump.
It’s not all about visuals, it’s about doubling the fps from 30 to 60fps, or 60 to 120fps. Everyone complains about 30 fps, then Sony gives you a 60 fps option, then everyone complains about that! Most people are just seething over the price though since Sony did not subsidize the PRO like the standard model.
Detroit become human on the ps4 still looks mind blowing to me, but looks is only the half of it. Fluid movement, realistic physics, and engaging gameplay together with the visuals are what really make the presentation special. Visuals alone is like the icing on the cake, but you still need a cake made from high quality ingredients inside or all you’ve really got is a bunch of fancy sugar.
I want to see more environmental effects, world density, npc ai enhancements, and destructibility.
Those features were at the forefront on the PS3 gen although limited by the hardware but a lot of games targeted those mostly cpu heavy tasks, nowadays we want the cpu to focus on frames over game enhancements
it's growing pretty darn well, just not in the "AAA" space
I've been eating pretty well with all the indies and retro games i've been getting to play
Most new games i play nowadays are either long-time MOBAs I grew up with or the occassional multiplayer games i play with friends
I believe the biggest jumps in graphics must fall to developers at this point. There needs to be a lot more effort in character animation especially. For example, the GTA 6 trailer makes it look like the most graphically impressive video game ever made, but it falls apart with facial expressions and body movement. Animation in film is always about a decade ahead but we have yet to see facial animations look as good as Avatar for realistic art styles or Up (Pixar), both of which came out in 2009.
Once we hit 4K visuals on the PS4 Pro and the Xbox One X we pretty much peeked in Fidelity what we need now is frame rates to get faster and interactivity and World detail and physics to improve. That's the next frontier. Graphics and textures are fine and resolution is great and all but we need more of a focus on interactivity physics and world detail.
Good points. In a world where horse power is no longer the differentiator, is a world where the best game design wins. We’ll all be better off for it.
a base PS4 w an SSD installed already gets you more than halfway to what a PS5 is, for literally 1/5th the price
Still waiting for quality gameplay from new games
Until we get a Holodeck I am perfectly fine with graphics as they stand.
I prefer my system to run the game smoothly without hiccups. 1080p 60 is fine with me, 1440p 60 only if there is no slowdown.
1800p @ 90 fps
Yes. Visuals have. People (developers, higher ups, and consumers) need to get over it. Do not expect a huge jump to the ps6/ Xbox ___.
I mean current gen can’t even handle a lot of games right now at smooth frame rate and visuals.
8:07 I believe games don't need to move towards realism anymore. Personally, my gripes with lower res consoles like PS3/ Xbox 360 and prior, were jaggies and blurry textures. That is no longer a problem. I think most people just want games to look pretty and clear rather than ultra realistic and boring.
I think the next innovation would be having actual competent developers that OPTIMIZATION and GAME MECHANICS as more important than how pretty your shadows look
They're focusing too much on improving graphics, to the point we didn't even notice.
What's worse, we made it clear performance is preferred over fidelity, and they still try to enhance graphics over improving performance.
This is such a good point, graphically not really a huge difference from ps4 to ps5 from the naked eye, but performance is noticeably better. I think a number of factors have to be in place for it to really evolve back into that wow factor like technology has to advance a whole lot more and economically things have to be cheaper etc.
I like to think of gaming now like realism in art. There's a point in art where super realism in portraits and landscapes get boring.
What we need is creativity and style, we need the Van Gogh era of gaming now that there's not much more developers can do to push visually without spending 300mil+ and a 5-8 year dev cycle.
The “feature” I want to see is Sony actually giving the full PS1, PS2, PSP library and push past the licensing barriers.
Sure games like Tomb Raider 1-3 and Legacy of Kain have their own releases, but I want to see them as they were in Sonys emulator with the save states and rewind features.
Just game preservation as a whole regardless to new versions releasing
Gaming peaked 10, 15 years ago.
Totally Agree.
Tell me you were born in 1997 without saying it.
@@SuperCosmicJeffrey That makes no sense at all. If anything, it shows that we're older gamers...Lol
1997 is super young.
I think the industry peaked 10-15 years ago and hasn't done much to innovate the medium further. It's mostly been how to further monetize our "product" for as much money as possible.
Around 2014 gaming started it's declined in my opinion
I think Hardware innovation has slowed. If the PS5 had 40GB of Ram, 5TB nvme SSD, and 1TB Blu Ray we would be able to tell the difference.
People like you are stupid.
PS4 is barely as powerful as an iPhone. Yet the lazy devs made games that look the same so they can sell more units.
a PS2 game within the same generation look FAR APART from each other in terms of graphics.
Yet people like you think a PS5 with at least 4 times the power should have graphics that look the same as PS4?
The next Gen should focus on insane frame rates for all titles. The fidelity is high enough where the pixels can't get any more detailed, especially with what Unreal Engine 5 can already do (even without ray tracing). If the baseline performance gets to a solid 60 fps, then the games can be built around aesthetics instead of realism. It still takes artistry to assemble a game with a consistent interesting look, but if the engines and hardware can solve things like performance and calculated real lighting, then the artists can concentrate on making a world that's fun to play or live in, rather than being constrained by what fits in video memory.
Well I don't want an 8k TV.. so once they have 4k 60 down, there is nowhere to go.
What exactly does your next gen console or graphics card get me? Especially as the upgrade will be very expensive.
Nowhere? PSVR2 renders a 2K square for each eye, and many games drop the resolution in order to keep a 90-120 Hz minimum. We have a lot of room for improvement.
4K is kind of the upper limit for most home setups anyway. Like unless you have an absurdly huge TV or sit absurdly close, you're not going to notice any difference. It can even be hard to tell 4K versus 1080p on common set sizes. You need 4x the graphics horsepower to render it at native 8K resolution over 4K. Doesn't seem worth it.
Evolution of hardware now is about consoles getting "better" at being this powerful, and being smaller, so perhaps PlayStation 6 or 7 will be a hybrid device. These companies can also focus on ways to make things easier and better for developers, so they can create more effectively. There's probably a lot of optimization and simplification to be worked on.
Part of the reason I'm getting the PS5 Pro is for the improvements to PSVR2. 30 FPS is not an option for VR, and even 60 FPS isn't enough. Hence most VR games are sacrificing image quality significantly to reach 90-120 Hz minimums. Foveated rendering helps to a degree, but we really need a more powerful system capable of 4K per eye, with greater details.
Nintendo saw that chasing graphics was an expensive bad move with the game cube, and focused on innovations (gimmicks) to see what would stick or resonate with the customers. I think Sony came to the the same realisation with their adaptive triggers.
I think going forward we are going to see some whacky innovations to try and corner the next gen market
Gaming visuals made game development a hell of a lot longer!
Man... I don't think we're even close to peak graphical capability
Diminishing returns, yes. But there is still PLENTY of room for improvement
“If you’re playing your game and sunlight is coming through your window onto your TV, you’re not seeing any ray tracing. It has to be super optimal… you have to have an 8K monitor in a dark room to see these things."
If this is a real quote from Shawn Layden, I get why he was fired. That's so ignorant and tech illiterate that I'm baffeled he was ever hired in the first place, if that's a quote of his.
Gaming peaked When MGS2 blew my brain open, and then blew my brain open again all these years later.
What a beautiful mindfuc of a game.
If you haven't already, listen to the Colonel's monologue in MGS2.
THAT is peak gaming.
In terms of graphics, there's still work to be done in terms of lighting (especially efficiency) and materials. It's very obvious you're playing a game still while in VR. We've gotten to a pretty good point on a 2D screen though. But over time, it's only natural for more effort to give you diminishing returns.
We have definitely peaked in polygon counts though. That's probably what we've been focused up to this point.
RT lowers development time so it is definitely here to stay. That's its real value to developers.
It peaked as far as budgets can afford. Only A.I can help push things further, and it could cut down costs for developers where it's worth increasing the visuals further.
Yeah, the difference in quality from PS1 to PS2 to PS3 was something obvious even on lower res CRTs, and they blew our minds, while now we see these ridiculous zoomed in comparisons of small areas of the screen at 4K resolutions, just that we can see the difference.
I am a old time gamer i'm 70 now and still playing video games have a xbox series x and still have my xbox one x, my gaming started with pong and still going strong love the technology and amazing graphics of today games
I wouldn't say peaked but the industry as a whole feels like it's hit a wall at the current moment
Graphically yes, but nowadays there isn't many good games being released anyway.
Graphics peak when Uncharted 4 was released in 2016.
Perhaps the next gen will heavily lean on AI Upscalling, frame generation and RT.. as it makes the most sense in mass consumer gaming consoles...quite exciting to be fair as the ai stuff will go much further than the traditional tflop grunt and power that we usually look for.
You know graphics have peaked when everyone is now talking about lighting and shadows.
Growing up, I was more interested in Xbox and Playstation around the 360 and PS3 days because of the graphics. Nowadays, im more interested in Nintendo and the indie scene because of the gameplay.
It's really hard to see where it goes from here.
Not to sound pompous, but having been gaming consistently at 4K on a 4090 for awhile now and getting ready to move to a 5090 it's hard to see visually and performance wise where this goes. 8K? I mean most PC gamers would rather stick with the higher refresh rates at 2K with it only just now starting to replace 1080p. I'm sure gaming is on a collision course with more sophisticated upscaling technologies (for better or worse at this point). As for the games themselves -- developers have some serious soul searching to do. Make games that players want to play. It's really not difficult.
Gaming crash will happen soon. When PlayStation announces that PlayStation 6 will be released at 700$ or above, it'll be the point of no return.
I would pay that for RE:9 in 8K VR on PSVR3.
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