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Hello 👋🏻 sir .how are you.I have a question 🙋♂ for this mod? You know my game with has a bug, that is I can’ t Recruiting troops ,when the after few turns. How can I fix this bug?if you know that.thank you
Agrippa... I was crushed when I found out that his biography was lost to time. He's my favorite historical figure and I've been trying so hard to learn as much as I can about him.
@@XeNeXXthat’s not true at all you moron. Octavian loved Agrippa. He even let him have triumphs. There are a ton of books lost to time like Trajans book about his Dacian wars
This doesn't sound right. Agrippa was Octavians most trusted friend. Octavians daughter and his sons were supposed to be next in line till they all died. COUGH COUGH LIVIA DID IT @@XeNeXX
Absolutely, I personally love the antiquity in almost its entirety, but there's something about the downfall of the Roman Republic that makes it stand out to anything else. Especially, for me, since the Grachii brothers. The social unrest among the italian allies, Marius and Sulla, Spartacus, Pompey, Crassus and Caesar, Antony and Octavian, but also Cicero, Cassius, Brutus, Scaurus, Agrippa, Cleopatra, etc etc. Totally amazing, and all super related! (Caesar being Marius' nephew, Pompey and Crassus being Sulla's generals, Cassius a survivor at Carrhae). Rome is truly astonishing, especially this period. Cheers!
Hey all, I was the writer and historian for this episode, hope you enjoyed it! If you've got any questions or feedback for me, feel free to leave them below; i try my best to get around to all of them! *ADDENDUM: regarding the words misogyny and xenophobia.* These words simply mean being prejudiced against women and outsiders; that's it. There is no doubt, whatsoever, that our sources for this battle are both of these things: it is VERY apparent in the sources. These were biases that were almost universal among Roman sources, and any study of history needs to recognise those biases. Arguing that Roman sources were not both these things would be analogous to arguing that sources from the Confederate States aren't racist: it's a nigh unavoidable bias thanks to the culture and society the sources were written in. Here some quotes to support it from Cassius Dio, the main source for the battle of Actium: "For that we who are Romans and lords of the greatest and best portion of the world should be despised and trodden under foot by an Egyptian woman is unworthy of our fathers" "Would not all those who have performed the exploits I have named grieve mightily if they should learn that we had succumbed to an accursed woman?" "Alexandrians and Egyptians (what worse or what truer name could one apply to them?), ...who are most reckless in effrontery but most feeble in courage, and who, worst of all, are slaves to a woman and not to a man" "[Antony] has been bewitched by that accursed woman" "it is impossible for one who leads a life of royal luxury, and coddles himself like a woman, to have a manly thought or do a manly deed" "And yet I can tell you of no greater prize that is set before you than to maintain the renown of your forefathers...to conquer and rule all mankind, to allow no woman to make herself equal to a man." "true to her nature as a woman and an Egyptian...she suddenly turned to flight herself and raised the signal for the others, her own subjects." There are only two other sources for the battle. Plutarch's Life of Antony, which because it focuses on Antony puts the blame on him for being a lovestruck fool, and Livy, which only mentions the battle in passing and gives no real details. As should be apparent from the quotes above then, our main source for the battle was prejudiced against Cleopatra based on her gender and nationality, that is why it is described as xenophobic and misogynistic; it is an entirely accurate description.
Great as always! It’s interesting seeing the similarities between the 2 civil wars. Octavian and Agrippa being like Caesar and Antony like Pompey, also having an Ahenobarbus on his side 😂 Btw put a last comment under the battle of Dyrrachium. Promise, and sorry again
@@_Al_41 Well, like the video says, the battle was really only the culmination of an entire campaign. If Antony had won this battle, he still would be in a pretty rough position; army demoralised, disease-ridden and deserting, and only able to man roughly half his navy. It's important to bear in mind that even if Antony won this naval battle, Octavian and Agrippa still had a well supplied army nearby to keep Antony busy. Under those circumstances, I doubt Antony would have carried on with the invasion of Italy plan. I suppose his best move would be to try and use the naval supremacy to cut Octavian's supply lines and try to destroy his army that way, and maybe then Antony would have had more options available to him.
There's just something so thrilling about this whole affair. The image of the last Pharaoh of Egypt; with the entire treasury on board a wooden ship in a time before diving equipment existed is just so utterly gripping as a narrative. Whilst Agrippa was - and always will be - the true hero of the Principate. Almost every aspect of the Actium campaign is incomprehensible to a modern read/audience. And now 2000 years later, it's as gripping as it was to contemporaries.
Lets be real, whatever Antony and Cleopatras plan was, in the moment she got past the line she had Octavian outflanked and couldve smashed their rear. If the accounts of the resilience of the rest of the fleet after they had fled are true, it is likely they couldve won that engagement after all. In my opinion the choice to run, whoever made it when, was a cowadly one. It was safer though, for the nobles.
@@ArchonShon Dead waters is not the same as dead winds. It is a phenomenon where differences in water salinity near coastlines create a stratification of the water, which results in internal waves moving ships back and forth and effectively slowing them down to a crawl. The propulsion system makes no difference to this AFAIK, it has even historically affected steamboats. To be fair, it _is_ still a stretch to speculate this happened in Actium when there are other, much more obvious explanations available, but it's not unrealistic at all.
And Octavian is notorious for getting wrecked against a competent commander so the coward story of Cleo fleeing no matter how much propaganda is most likely true.
Octavian and Aggrippa, a damn near perfecr pair of badasses, basically willed the Roman civil war to a halt and started the Age of Empire, it is a shame Aggrippa had to go so soon
“What is Caesar wasn’t assassinated” “What if Octavian deferred to Agrippa more often” Some of the most interesting what-ifs of the end of the Republic era
Octavian had a +100 tactical bonus and that was Marcus Agrippa... The guy seemed content with his position, never having tried to raise above his boyhood friend by betraying him and only really failed Octavian once and that was by dying.
Kind of remind me of that abomination of "documentary" that tried to paint Cleopatra as smart and pragmatic for retreating from the battlefield, and yet call Antony a coward for fleeing and following Cleopatra's example.
@@lisboah Bravely bold Queen Cleo sailed forth from Alexandria She was not afraid to die, oh, brave Queen Cleo She was not at all afraid to be killed in nasty ways Brave, brave, brave, brave Queen Cleo
Nah, I think it more likely like this... Cleopatra - forward, forward - forward to victory... Naval commander - errr madame, we just went past the enemy navy... Cleopatra - Yes, forward forward to victory!!
The last battle of the Roman Republic wasn't a battle to save it, but a battle for who's Empire would replace it. That shows just how broken the Roman Republic was.
The most powerful men in history had a right-hand man to count on. Augustus had Agrippa, Liu Bang had Han Xin, Genghis Khan had Subutai and Louis XIII had Richelieu.
Genghis Khan did it on his own until it was too big to do it on his own. Caesar did it by himself. Napoleon did it on his own. Augustus was just a politician (and wealthy), he rode on the backs of others. Men like Caesar i always enjoined reading about. Men like Augustus I equate with modern politicians. In fact Augustus maybe the father of modern politicians.
Been watching since the videos about the Gallic Wars back in 2018. 6 years later and the story of Caesar is finally coming to its conclusion. It's baffling how many hours of detailed content have been put into this series. Thank you Kings and Generals!
Agrippa was the ultimate BFF. He understood his role and left the glory to Octivian. In return, Octivian gave him free reign to do whatever he wanted. He proved himself time after time.
Mark Antony really fumbled the bag. He had it all and he made dumb decisions by attacking Parthian, alienating his Roman Allies, shacking up with Caesar’s old mistress. He’s my favorite Roman but, when I think about the bad decisions I’ve made, I think of Mark Antony.
What's wrong with shacking up with Cleo? It gave him legitimacy and more stable control over the rich province of Egypt. Like most of his "mistakes", it was more to do with Octavian's spinning of things in the West that make them negatives. Apart from Parthia, that was all him His plan and execution is underrated, but against Octavian and more importantly Agrippa together he was bested. I always wonder what if Cleopatra didn't abandon Actium because it didn't seem like they were losing, maybe they already were though
@@raulpetrascu2696I think they already lost battle of Actium before the battle itself. Even if Anthony and Cleo wins. Their allies and soldier have many abandon them. And thats not gonna change the fact that they must face Octavian army after that, which the number is already doubled with that desertion. So yeah, the only logical thing is abandon Greece all at once.
@@gregrenox9644 if they won, allies would have started abandoning Octavian instead. At this point in time, Antony still had the stronger fleet, because of how the battle ent after he left. Antony had more war ships. Agrippa was using a crap load of cargo vessles in battle which gave him a numerical advantage...these were canon fodder ships. Hence why Agrippa struggled to win the battle, even after Cleoptra left with 60 of the most advanced war machines in the world, Antony left with 40 fast War ships, and a bunch of others left on their own. Imagine if those more than 100 ships had stayed. Imagine if Cleo's ships had rammed Agrippa in the rear. Agrippa's force on land would have lost their logistical support. Plus Methone would have been back open to retake
@@tylerdurden3722 I personally doubt that the allies King would abandon Octavian. Because the fact most allied kings have already betrayed Anthony and then betrayed Octavian next, is very petty even for them and even if Octavian indeed is lost, those allied king would have to face Anthony and his fleets and probably they would be in the same situation, stuck in Greece and maybe its gonna be worse for them, because neither Anthony or Octavian gonna accept them anymore. And Rome would have a pefect Casus Belii to justified the war of full annexation againts them wheter its Antony or Octavian on its helm, plus Roman is very Anti Hellenistic Monarchy and would find any reason to conquer Hellenic kingdom. And for the ships battle, theres maybe a points in your argument that if only Cleo ships attack Agrippa rears, then it gonna be very devastating impact and i geniuenly belive that. Yet i personally think that Agrippa would have anticipate this, Sextus pulled the same thing in the past and i doubt that a talented Admiral as Agrippa wouldn't forseen that comming. The likely scenario of that is it would make devastating attack sure, but considering Cleopatra was on it too would be a very high targets of Priority for Octavian ships, and it doesn't change the fact that those Cleo ships carry the entire Anthony war funds, so Cleo armada have to prioritize to protecting it, and imagining a Treasure fleet of some sort decide to charge into a Heavy Naval Battle is very counterproductive even for ancient Naval battles. And the fact that K&G doesn't mention any of those Cargo ships raise me an eyebrows.
I did not know about Methone or any of Agrippa's other brilliant maneuverings prior to Actium. We should by all rights speak of an Ionian Campaign; the Battle of Actium was merely its climactic end. Thank you for filling in this crucial gap in my knowledge of Roman history!
My family is from the island of Leucas, adjacent to where the battle took place. I recommend to everyone that they visit that part of Greece, as there's a considerable amount of surviving archaeological material associated with the battle. For example, among the ruins of the city of Nicopolis is a monument erected by Augustus to mark the location of his camp during the battle.
I’m just stunned by the details surrounding Actium. I always “knew” of the climactic battle, but to visualize the specifics, the strategy, just leaves me amazed. Wow - great job as always K&G!
I’m watching this after having watched the battle of Actium video from six years ago. My goodness it is so VERY impressive how this channel has developed. I love the documentaries you guys make and I’ve been watching the Roman ones as close to chronological order as I can. They are all so amazing and informative and I cannot praise your channel enough.
Just culminated my binge of the entire series here. I was looking for the next video in the series but suddenly we are at the end! Thank you for the journey ❤
What an epic recounting of Roman military history from Caesar’s rise to power to the end of the Republic through an uninterrupted period of civil wars point of view. I see it now clearly. TY!
I’m so glad you finally covered (“recovered”) this important battle, and obviously from now on I will impatiently wait for the release of the next episode, about the invasion of Egypt, perhaps not well known, so even more important in my opinion. Realistically, considering also the final words of your narrator at the end of the video, I expect the next episode to be released, at best, early next year 😔…
Thank you King's and Generals for this video. Im glad that im still supporting you all even though it has only been 4 month's. The membership was definitely worth it
Antony and Cleopatra knew they lost the battle even before it began. With desertion, diseases, and their bottled-up fleet causing widespread demoralization among their army, they saw the handwriting upon the wall. Their act of burning some of their ships (due to insufficient number of men to man them), and loading the treasures on their flagship, it's obvious that it was an elaborate plan to escape, with the engagement as a diversion. The duo probably planned on using the treasure to hire mercenaries from Parthia and Nubia to rebuild their army afterwards.
It's wild to think about how different history would be if Antony and Cleopatra had won this battle. Also, hilarious that Antony and Octavian were both strongest on land and the defining battle of their war was at sea. 😅
they were stronger at sea as well. Agrippa's fleet was only larger because he used a crap load of supply vessels (which he commandeered from Antony's supply lines). During the battle these ships struggled and weren't able to board the enemy war ships...hence why after a long struggle, Agrippa resorted to burning those war ships instead, A modern equivalent would be, Antony had a large force of the most advanced fighter jets of all types. Agrippa had fewer fighter jets and couldn't match quality either, but tried to make up for that by adding crap loads of armed civilian planes. Antony would have caused Agrippa to withdraw if Cleo had taken advantage of the many flanks that opened up. If Cleopatra had turned her 60 warships against the rear of Agrippa's cargo ships and rammed them, it could have changed the outcome. This is how most battles by outnumbered forces were typically won...flanking maneuvers.
"I was far away... All my life...I've been fearful of defeat. But now that it has come... It's not near as terrible as I'd expected. The sun still shines. Water still tastes good. Glory is... All well and good, but... Life is enough, nay?" -Mark Antony.
It's great seeing the improvements compared to the previous video (which was still good). It's great seeing this channel grow, I look forward to its videos!
Absolutely fabulous! I love when you dive deep into famous battles and present them in such details! Well done! Looking forward for more battle videos in this a manner!
Same, i dunno whats the cloud on trying to find the reason is on Cleo retreat. Anthony and Cleo retreated and make a huge blunder and that's it, Whatever the reasons is noble or logical. I'm more intrested in Anthony rather than Cleo, because Cleo is not a Military mind yet Anthony is and he knows what will happen and the impact of his retreats gonna reflects too him and his Soldiers.
Channel is simply very pro-anything that against Octavian. Remark about his propaganda here, remark about how good was Agrippa there, about Antony being misunderstood here, about Cleopatra being smart there, about Pompeiians being honest men... Good leader not supposed to be good general, not everybody is a Caesar himself. Octavian's job was to held Agrippa satisfied. Not easy task considering how many defections were during those times. While Antony was great general, he was horrible administrator and kinda lost his touch without Caesar, doing mistakes everywhere and major was Cleopatra herself. Cleopatra on the other hand, no matter how hard channel tries to tell how smart she is, was egoistical and not really important character, who only lead to a downfall of Antony. t. one of agents of Augustus propaganda, still funded and alive
Anyone know the name of the piece of synth music used at 7:23? I’ve heard it in other releases too but it fits so well here and have so far been unsuccessful finding it online. Thank you!
I love your content, I feel like the French & Indian/Seven Years War is way underrepresented by channels such as yourself. I'd love to see content on it from you guys!
I've recently subscribed to your channel and I really love the research you've put in and your team is like History channel in its og format, but much better. Thank you and your team
there is a group pushing the idea that she was ...lets say of a darker skin tone, a lie of course but as long as they keep paying there will be some willing to promote their agenda.
I suspect they were made with AI, but it doesn’t look too dark to me? I’ve certainly seen many Mediterraneans with such complexion. Especially with a bit of tanning from the summer sun
The research was overall fine, but we didn't have the battle of Methone, also it was a standalone missing so much context, and the graphics were much worse.
I still find it sad Agrippa is still never really given as much recognition as I think he deserves. The main reason Octavian remained in power and won the war in the end is only down to his capable general who was able to think outside the box.
@@KingsandGenerals Yes, but my error as i should have been more specific. He is not a household name to people vs say how a Caesar, Augustus or Constantine have been.
@@maverick7291 Threat of assassination or execution didn't deter innumerable usurpers in the latter centuries of Empire. It was a double-edged sword, really. If you think you're going to die anyway, you don't exactly have a lot to lose by rebelling. I think it was mostly them being childhood friends and Agrippa being too lowborn to be truly accepted as Princeps by the Roman elites. Agrippa was smart enough to realize his spectacular career relied on the friend whose authority was much grander if he got the ultimate credit, and Octavian gave him basically everything else than that.
If Anthony actually listened to his advisers and retreat while he can despite the supplies are very minimum, will this changed the battle's outcome or was the fate of this battle decided before it even fought?
He would be trapped in greece. Imagine Cleopatra, descendant of Ptolemy and the last diadochi ruler meet her end not in Egypt but in the land of her ancestor.
Throughout the civil war, Octovian was not very popular. The dude lacked his father's charisma and respect. He only won because his rival Anthony was so hated for associating himself with a foreign queen.
Well, now that's an alternate history premise worthy of a series of novels: What if Antony and Octavian had exchanged gifts of Ridge products to bury the hatchet?
Another anniversary on which we remember how history of independent, ancient Egypt has ended and history of Roman Empire began... Something ends, something begins... To think that history of Europe and entire world could be different if fleet of Octavian wasn't triumphant that day...
I really appreciate the alternative perspective explanation you gave for Antony and Cleopatra's departure from the battle.. History is written by the winner and as we know propaganda existed way back then.. Excellent narration, montage and research work btw..
They conveniently left out certain details to prevent that from messing up their portrayal. Antony had to literally swim in the ocean to a smaller boat, and scramble together more fast ships while Cleopatra was disappearing over the horizon, to pursue her ships. When Antony eventually caught up with Cleopatra's flagship he transferred to her ship he refused to speak to her and he sat on the bow of that ship for 3 days, staring into nothingness...and then later he committed suicide. Antony tried to lure Agrippa into into the gulf (300 Thermopylae style), but Agrippa didn't take the bait because not battling was ideal for Agrippa. The battle happened because Antony tried to harass Agrippa's left flank, but more and more ships had to be committed (to prevent flanking), and eventually the entire line was engaged, except Cleopatra's fleet who stayed. This was obviously not the battle Antony planned to have. The fact that Antony had to swim and hustle for a ship, as well as the fact that those ships had their sails and masts removed before the battle means no preparations were made to escape by Antony. Cleopatra on the other hand, did not have sails removed for battle. Sails and masts are not needed in battle with rowing ships that ram enemies, it just in the way...hence why its ideally removed before battle and left on shore. Sails are for sailing long distances. So, instead of preparing for battle, she prepared to sail a long distance. Whereas, Antony did not make any preparations to escape or even join up with her ship. Instead he had to hustle to make that happen, on the fly. If Antony really planned to abandon his entire fleet, his entire army, his source of military power (greece), as well as control of the eastern Mediterranean just so he could kill himself, then it was an nonsensical plan. Its pretty obvious what happened, hence why Octavian wasn't stupid enough to try and milk a premeditated escape story for his propaganda machine. Had Antony really premeditatively planned to betray all of his own allies and troops, Octavian would have milked that dry for propaganda.
Thanks a lot for that thorough explanation.. Where did you get this source?.. Just curious.. Very interesting.. Really appreciated :) @@tylerdurden3722
I think that Cleopatra was very wrong to meddle in Roman affairs firstly by giving birth to a son to Caesar and secondly by marrying Mark Antony And I think if the Kingdom of Meroe, which was smaller than Ptolemaic Egypt, could defend itself against the Romans, and with Queen Amanirenas at the head of the battle, so could Ptolemaic Egypt
No rush, have you ever looked into getting some of your long videos onto a history tv channel? The work of you and history marche is unmatched and it's a shame not everyone knows about your channels.
Its a shame that Agrippa's life story was deliberately destroyed, that dude was such a military genius, he should be up there with Caesar and Alexander the Great. He's definitely one of my favorite figures from Antiquity. What also makes him so wholesome is that he was always content with his positions, he wasn't a power hungry egotistical maniac.
another argument for a break-out scenario: Cleopatra and Marc Anthony stored the treasure on board and they kept the sails on board. In ancient times they didn't take those if they wanted a full fledged fight. (sails could be set on fire when used in battle; why take them if you don't want to use it?)
I can't help but compare Antony to Pyrrhus. Both had quite a good start to their military careers but a succession of strategic and tactical blunders cost them both in the end.
I'm so much conditioned by Historia Civilis that I was very much distraught by the lack of Jetsons-spaceship engine sound after Agrippa being mentioned 😅😅
The theories offered about the aftermath of Actium are quite interesting. And I like to think that it wasn't cowardice that caused things to unravel as it did.
What’s better? Total War Rome remastered or Imperator Rome. Which is more about diplomacy and battles? And can you guide your battles or only spectate?
Agrippa and Augustus greatest Bromance in all of history. Agrippa was far more than Augustus's good servant and friend, Agrippa was The reason why Augustus became an Emperor . Augustus owed everything to Agrippa . But the good thing, is the fact , that Augustus, more than anyone , recognized this . No greater proof of this , was when in 12 b.c., when Augustus learned of Agrippa's death , Augustus was completely devastated. Augustus himself would place Agrippa's ashes in his own mausoleum
Octavian and Agrippa would make one heck of an ancient buddy cop movie. Octavian would be hard boiled try hard with visions of being the ultimate cop while Agrippa gets all the promotions and praise but isn't ambitious.
This is correct an embarrassing mistake on my part considering I wrote the fricking Dyrrachium video! Thank you for pointing this out though, I'll make sure it's corrected when all these videos get compiled into a longer form one.
Big thanks to Ridge for gifting me their product and supporting the channel! Here’s the site if you want to check them out! > ridge.com/kingsandgenerals
I did enjoy it thank you
❤😂🎉😢😮😅😊
We want something about the underrated suvorov
Hello 👋🏻 sir .how are you.I have a question 🙋♂ for this mod? You know my game with has a bug, that is I can’ t Recruiting troops ,when the after few turns.
How can I fix this bug?if you know that.thank you
Agrippa... I was crushed when I found out that his biography was lost to time. He's my favorite historical figure and I've been trying so hard to learn as much as I can about him.
It wasn't lost - it was systematically removed and hindered from ever being properly made by the jealous Octavian
@@XeNeXXthat’s not true at all you moron. Octavian loved Agrippa. He even let him have triumphs. There are a ton of books lost to time like Trajans book about his Dacian wars
@@XeNeXXSource?
This doesn't sound right. Agrippa was Octavians most trusted friend. Octavians daughter and his sons were supposed to be next in line till they all died. COUGH COUGH LIVIA DID IT @@XeNeXX
@@XeNeXX Livia destoryed it most likely
The evolution of the Roman Republic into the Roman Empire is such an interesting topic. Thanks for covering the Roman Republic’s final battle.
Absolutely, I personally love the antiquity in almost its entirety, but there's something about the downfall of the Roman Republic that makes it stand out to anything else. Especially, for me, since the Grachii brothers. The social unrest among the italian allies, Marius and Sulla, Spartacus, Pompey, Crassus and Caesar, Antony and Octavian, but also Cicero, Cassius, Brutus, Scaurus, Agrippa, Cleopatra, etc etc. Totally amazing, and all super related! (Caesar being Marius' nephew, Pompey and Crassus being Sulla's generals, Cassius a survivor at Carrhae). Rome is truly astonishing, especially this period.
Cheers!
We should all be so lucky to have a good friend like Agrippa
Agrippa was made of the good stuff.
wise words indeed
I personally only become friends with someone if I"m certain they can win a war against my rivals. You never know when that'll be necessary.
Hey all, I was the writer and historian for this episode, hope you enjoyed it! If you've got any questions or feedback for me, feel free to leave them below; i try my best to get around to all of them!
*ADDENDUM: regarding the words misogyny and xenophobia.* These words simply mean being prejudiced against women and outsiders; that's it. There is no doubt, whatsoever, that our sources for this battle are both of these things: it is VERY apparent in the sources. These were biases that were almost universal among Roman sources, and any study of history needs to recognise those biases. Arguing that Roman sources were not both these things would be analogous to arguing that sources from the Confederate States aren't racist: it's a nigh unavoidable bias thanks to the culture and society the sources were written in. Here some quotes to support it from Cassius Dio, the main source for the battle of Actium:
"For that we who are Romans and lords of the greatest and best portion of the world should be despised and trodden under foot by an Egyptian woman is unworthy of our fathers"
"Would not all those who have performed the exploits I have named grieve mightily if they should learn that we had succumbed to an accursed woman?"
"Alexandrians and Egyptians (what worse or what truer name could one apply to them?), ...who are most reckless in effrontery but most feeble in courage, and who, worst of all, are slaves to a woman and not to a man"
"[Antony] has been bewitched by that accursed woman"
"it is impossible for one who leads a life of royal luxury, and coddles himself like a woman, to have a manly thought or do a manly deed"
"And yet I can tell you of no greater prize that is set before you than to maintain the renown of your forefathers...to conquer and rule all mankind, to allow no woman to make herself equal to a man."
"true to her nature as a woman and an Egyptian...she suddenly turned to flight herself and raised the signal for the others, her own subjects."
There are only two other sources for the battle. Plutarch's Life of Antony, which because it focuses on Antony puts the blame on him for being a lovestruck fool, and Livy, which only mentions the battle in passing and gives no real details. As should be apparent from the quotes above then, our main source for the battle was prejudiced against Cleopatra based on her gender and nationality, that is why it is described as xenophobic and misogynistic; it is an entirely accurate description.
What do you think would happen if Anthony had won the battle
nice！
Thank you so much for your hard work. Appreciate it enormously❤.
Great as always!
It’s interesting seeing the similarities between the 2 civil wars. Octavian and Agrippa being like Caesar and Antony like Pompey, also having an Ahenobarbus on his side 😂
Btw put a last comment under the battle of Dyrrachium. Promise, and sorry again
@@_Al_41 Well, like the video says, the battle was really only the culmination of an entire campaign. If Antony had won this battle, he still would be in a pretty rough position; army demoralised, disease-ridden and deserting, and only able to man roughly half his navy. It's important to bear in mind that even if Antony won this naval battle, Octavian and Agrippa still had a well supplied army nearby to keep Antony busy. Under those circumstances, I doubt Antony would have carried on with the invasion of Italy plan. I suppose his best move would be to try and use the naval supremacy to cut Octavian's supply lines and try to destroy his army that way, and maybe then Antony would have had more options available to him.
There's just something so thrilling about this whole affair. The image of the last Pharaoh of Egypt; with the entire treasury on board a wooden ship in a time before diving equipment existed is just so utterly gripping as a narrative. Whilst Agrippa was - and always will be - the true hero of the Principate. Almost every aspect of the Actium campaign is incomprehensible to a modern read/audience. And now 2000 years later, it's as gripping as it was to contemporaries.
Agrippa always makes zooming noises in my head, thanks History Civilis.
Lets be real, whatever Antony and Cleopatras plan was, in the moment she got past the line she had Octavian outflanked and couldve smashed their rear. If the accounts of the resilience of the rest of the fleet after they had fled are true, it is likely they couldve won that engagement after all. In my opinion the choice to run, whoever made it when, was a cowadly one. It was safer though, for the nobles.
The idea that the oar powered force of Cleopatra couldn't join the fight in time due to "dead seas" is almost laughable.
No the idea was not last minute at all. They legitimately hoped to regroup outside the malaria hell storm of ambrakia. @@ArchonShon
@@ArchonShon Dead waters is not the same as dead winds. It is a phenomenon where differences in water salinity near coastlines create a stratification of the water, which results in internal waves moving ships back and forth and effectively slowing them down to a crawl. The propulsion system makes no difference to this AFAIK, it has even historically affected steamboats. To be fair, it _is_ still a stretch to speculate this happened in Actium when there are other, much more obvious explanations available, but it's not unrealistic at all.
her ship was full of gold .. doubt she would risk it
And Octavian is notorious for getting wrecked against a competent commander so the coward story of Cleo fleeing no matter how much propaganda is most likely true.
Octavian and Aggrippa, a damn near perfecr pair of badasses, basically willed the Roman civil war to a halt and started the Age of Empire, it is a shame Aggrippa had to go so soon
“What is Caesar wasn’t assassinated”
“What if Octavian deferred to Agrippa more often”
Some of the most interesting what-ifs of the end of the Republic era
Agrippa pissed off Livia, Octavia's wife who wasn't above scheming to put her son Tiberius to the throne.
Agrippa for the win
@@dyingearth when did that happen? Genuinely curious
Octavian had a +100 tactical bonus and that was Marcus Agrippa...
The guy seemed content with his position, never having tried to raise above his boyhood friend by betraying him and only really failed Octavian once and that was by dying.
The most likely explanation for her actions is that Cleopatra wasn't fleeing cowardly, she was bravely advancing away from the enemy.
Kind of remind me of that abomination of "documentary" that tried to paint Cleopatra as smart and pragmatic for retreating from the battlefield, and yet call Antony a coward for fleeing and following Cleopatra's example.
@@lisboah Bravely bold Queen Cleo sailed forth from Alexandria
She was not afraid to die, oh, brave Queen Cleo
She was not at all afraid to be killed in nasty ways
Brave, brave, brave, brave Queen Cleo
Yeah, They planned a breakout together and obviously didn't tell their men.
Indeed, it was a special military operation
Nah, I think it more likely like this...
Cleopatra - forward, forward - forward to victory...
Naval commander - errr madame, we just went past the enemy navy...
Cleopatra - Yes, forward forward to victory!!
Agrippa is definitely a strong contender in the competition for the "greatest bro in history"!
The last battle of the Roman Republic wasn't a battle to save it, but a battle for who's Empire would replace it. That shows just how broken the Roman Republic was.
Take a moment to apreciate the new map and units animations...
Glorious.
The most powerful men in history had a right-hand man to count on. Augustus had Agrippa, Liu Bang had Han Xin, Genghis Khan had Subutai and Louis XIII had Richelieu.
No man rules alone apparently
Alexander the Great has entered the chat
@@Anonymous07192He had Hephaestion.
Justinian - Belisarius
Genghis Khan did it on his own until it was too big to do it on his own. Caesar did it by himself. Napoleon did it on his own. Augustus was just a politician (and wealthy), he rode on the backs of others. Men like Caesar i always enjoined reading about. Men like Augustus I equate with modern politicians. In fact Augustus maybe the father of modern politicians.
Been watching since the videos about the Gallic Wars back in 2018. 6 years later and the story of Caesar is finally coming to its conclusion. It's baffling how many hours of detailed content have been put into this series. Thank you Kings and Generals!
Agrippa was the ultimate BFF. He understood his role and left the glory to Octivian. In return, Octivian gave him free reign to do whatever he wanted. He proved himself time after time.
Mark Antony really fumbled the bag. He had it all and he made dumb decisions by attacking Parthian, alienating his Roman Allies, shacking up with Caesar’s old mistress. He’s my favorite Roman but, when I think about the bad decisions I’ve made, I think of Mark Antony.
Man he should have stuck to singing
What's wrong with shacking up with Cleo? It gave him legitimacy and more stable control over the rich province of Egypt. Like most of his "mistakes", it was more to do with Octavian's spinning of things in the West that make them negatives. Apart from Parthia, that was all him
His plan and execution is underrated, but against Octavian and more importantly Agrippa together he was bested. I always wonder what if Cleopatra didn't abandon Actium because it didn't seem like they were losing, maybe they already were though
@@raulpetrascu2696I think they already lost battle of Actium before the battle itself. Even if Anthony and Cleo wins. Their allies and soldier have many abandon them. And thats not gonna change the fact that they must face Octavian army after that, which the number is already doubled with that desertion. So yeah, the only logical thing is abandon Greece all at once.
@@gregrenox9644 if they won, allies would have started abandoning Octavian instead.
At this point in time, Antony still had the stronger fleet, because of how the battle ent after he left. Antony had more war ships. Agrippa was using a crap load of cargo vessles in battle which gave him a numerical advantage...these were canon fodder ships. Hence why Agrippa struggled to win the battle, even after Cleoptra left with 60 of the most advanced war machines in the world, Antony left with 40 fast War ships, and a bunch of others left on their own.
Imagine if those more than 100 ships had stayed. Imagine if Cleo's ships had rammed Agrippa in the rear.
Agrippa's force on land would have lost their logistical support. Plus Methone would have been back open to retake
@@tylerdurden3722 I personally doubt that the allies King would abandon Octavian. Because the fact most allied kings have already betrayed Anthony and then betrayed Octavian next, is very petty even for them and even if Octavian indeed is lost, those allied king would have to face Anthony and his fleets and probably they would be in the same situation, stuck in Greece and maybe its gonna be worse for them, because neither Anthony or Octavian gonna accept them anymore. And Rome would have a pefect Casus Belii to justified the war of full annexation againts them wheter its Antony or Octavian on its helm, plus Roman is very Anti Hellenistic Monarchy and would find any reason to conquer Hellenic kingdom.
And for the ships battle, theres maybe a points in your argument that if only Cleo ships attack Agrippa rears, then it gonna be very devastating impact and i geniuenly belive that. Yet i personally think that Agrippa would have anticipate this, Sextus pulled the same thing in the past and i doubt that a talented Admiral as Agrippa wouldn't forseen that comming.
The likely scenario of that is it would make devastating attack sure, but considering Cleopatra was on it too would be a very high targets of Priority for Octavian ships, and it doesn't change the fact that those Cleo ships carry the entire Anthony war funds, so Cleo armada have to prioritize to protecting it, and imagining a Treasure fleet of some sort decide to charge into a Heavy Naval Battle is very counterproductive even for ancient Naval battles.
And the fact that K&G doesn't mention any of those Cargo ships raise me an eyebrows.
This event was one of the first videos on the channel, and the first I watched, and to see it be redone is really cool
I did not know about Methone or any of Agrippa's other brilliant maneuverings prior to Actium. We should by all rights speak of an Ionian Campaign; the Battle of Actium was merely its climactic end. Thank you for filling in this crucial gap in my knowledge of Roman history!
As usual, when you make the best pre-battle moves, battle becomes a mere formality.
My family is from the island of Leucas, adjacent to where the battle took place. I recommend to everyone that they visit that part of Greece, as there's a considerable amount of surviving archaeological material associated with the battle. For example, among the ruins of the city of Nicopolis is a monument erected by Augustus to mark the location of his camp during the battle.
I’m just stunned by the details surrounding Actium. I always “knew” of the climactic battle, but to visualize the specifics, the strategy, just leaves me amazed. Wow - great job as always K&G!
I’m watching this after having watched the battle of Actium video from six years ago. My goodness it is so VERY impressive how this channel has developed. I love the documentaries you guys make and I’ve been watching the Roman ones as close to chronological order as I can. They are all so amazing and informative and I cannot praise your channel enough.
Just culminated my binge of the entire series here. I was looking for the next video in the series but suddenly we are at the end! Thank you for the journey ❤
This not the end. At least one episode left
This is what I live for, Roman history on slow days at work.
What an epic recounting of Roman military history from Caesar’s rise to power to the end of the Republic through an uninterrupted period of civil wars point of view. I see it now clearly. TY!
I’m so glad you finally covered (“recovered”) this important battle, and obviously from now on I will impatiently wait for the release of the next episode, about the invasion of Egypt, perhaps not well known, so even more important in my opinion.
Realistically, considering also the final words of your narrator at the end of the video, I expect the next episode to be released, at best, early next year 😔…
Doing our best, real life sometimes interferes
@@KingsandGenerals I know and I hope everything goes alright, take your time, and thank you for the content 🔝.
Finally it is here. God knows how much I waited for this
Thank you King's and Generals for this video. Im glad that im still supporting you all even though it has only been 4 month's. The membership was definitely worth it
Antony and Cleopatra knew they lost the battle even before it began. With desertion, diseases, and their bottled-up fleet causing widespread demoralization among their army, they saw the handwriting upon the wall. Their act of burning some of their ships (due to insufficient number of men to man them), and loading the treasures on their flagship, it's obvious that it was an elaborate plan to escape, with the engagement as a diversion. The duo probably planned on using the treasure to hire mercenaries from Parthia and Nubia to rebuild their army afterwards.
It's wild to think about how different history would be if Antony and Cleopatra had won this battle. Also, hilarious that Antony and Octavian were both strongest on land and the defining battle of their war was at sea. 😅
they were stronger at sea as well.
Agrippa's fleet was only larger because he used a crap load of supply vessels (which he commandeered from Antony's supply lines).
During the battle these ships struggled and weren't able to board the enemy war ships...hence why after a long struggle, Agrippa resorted to burning those war ships instead,
A modern equivalent would be, Antony had a large force of the most advanced fighter jets of all types. Agrippa had fewer fighter jets and couldn't match quality either, but tried to make up for that by adding crap loads of armed civilian planes.
Antony would have caused Agrippa to withdraw if Cleo had taken advantage of the many flanks that opened up. If Cleopatra had turned her 60 warships against the rear of Agrippa's cargo ships and rammed them, it could have changed the outcome. This is how most battles by outnumbered forces were typically won...flanking maneuvers.
Well done to everyone involved in making this!! Enjoy every episode!!!
"I was far away... All my life...I've been fearful of defeat. But now that it has come... It's not near as terrible as I'd expected. The sun still shines. Water still tastes good. Glory is... All well and good, but... Life is enough, nay?"
-Mark Antony.
The new animated maps are indeed very refreshing.
Quintus Dellius is an interesting character in the civil wars. He changed sides a few times and eventually became a historian.
There were few notable flip floppers who survived the 40s, 30s and 20s by the skin of their balls. Crazy times to live.
@@geordiejones5618 Tiberius Claudius Nero was one, he loved his principled stances so much that he wanted to get as many of them as possible!
He changed side like a weasel playing pogs.
Reminds me of Josephus.
It's great seeing the improvements compared to the previous video (which was still good). It's great seeing this channel grow, I look forward to its videos!
Yes! I have waited so long for a vid from you guys about this
one of the best roman, Agrippa the man 😎
shame his descendants never come close to him😩
Real ones been waiting for this episode since the beginning of the Gallic War series.
Absolutely fabulous! I love when you dive deep into famous battles and present them in such details! Well done!
Looking forward for more battle videos in this a manner!
Great Job on your Videos, Keep Up
I really don't get the obsession with finding another explanation for Cleopatra's actions.
Same. Don't remember seeing any other historical figure getting so much charity for their blunders.
Same, i dunno whats the cloud on trying to find the reason is on Cleo retreat. Anthony and Cleo retreated and make a huge blunder and that's it, Whatever the reasons is noble or logical. I'm more intrested in Anthony rather than Cleo, because Cleo is not a Military mind yet Anthony is and he knows what will happen and the impact of his retreats gonna reflects too him and his Soldiers.
Channel is simply very pro-anything that against Octavian. Remark about his propaganda here, remark about how good was Agrippa there, about Antony being misunderstood here, about Cleopatra being smart there, about Pompeiians being honest men... Good leader not supposed to be good general, not everybody is a Caesar himself. Octavian's job was to held Agrippa satisfied. Not easy task considering how many defections were during those times. While Antony was great general, he was horrible administrator and kinda lost his touch without Caesar, doing mistakes everywhere and major was Cleopatra herself. Cleopatra on the other hand, no matter how hard channel tries to tell how smart she is, was egoistical and not really important character, who only lead to a downfall of Antony.
t. one of agents of Augustus propaganda, still funded and alive
The animation on this video is something special
Anyone know the name of the piece of synth music used at 7:23? I’ve heard it in other releases too but it fits so well here and have so far been unsuccessful finding it online. Thank you!
Epic series man. My favourite. Gonna watch them all again in a year probably. Exceptional work
I love your content, I feel like the French & Indian/Seven Years War is way underrepresented by channels such as yourself. I'd love to see content on it from you guys!
It is on our list
Impeccable timing, I'm having a half-way break from the Spartacus TV series!
I've recently subscribed to your channel and I really love the research you've put in and your team is like History channel in its og format, but much better. Thank you and your team
Thanks!
"When the time is right..." Antony might remember this words after his forces was trapped at Actium by Agrippa's brilliant counter moves.
0:25 Why are you portraying Cleopatra Ptolemy with such a dark, ruddy complexion?
there is a group pushing the idea that she was ...lets say of a darker skin tone, a lie of course but as long as they keep paying there will be some willing to promote their agenda.
I suspect they were made with AI, but it doesn’t look too dark to me? I’ve certainly seen many Mediterraneans with such complexion. Especially with a bit of tanning from the summer sun
Have you seen Egyptians? They don’t look white… Egypt isn’t European and neither are their people
It's cool to compare this video to your first video about the same topic
The research was overall fine, but we didn't have the battle of Methone, also it was a standalone missing so much context, and the graphics were much worse.
Finally!!! been waiting so long for this one
thanks for this videos, really
Greetings from Spain
I still find it sad Agrippa is still never really given as much recognition as I think he deserves. The main reason Octavian remained in power and won the war in the end is only down to his capable general who was able to think outside the box.
I think that it is a bit overstated. By the end of his life, he was basically the co-emperor.
@@KingsandGenerals Yes, but my error as i should have been more specific. He is not a household name to people vs say how a Caesar, Augustus or Constantine have been.
@@maverick7291 Threat of assassination or execution didn't deter innumerable usurpers in the latter centuries of Empire. It was a double-edged sword, really. If you think you're going to die anyway, you don't exactly have a lot to lose by rebelling. I think it was mostly them being childhood friends and Agrippa being too lowborn to be truly accepted as Princeps by the Roman elites. Agrippa was smart enough to realize his spectacular career relied on the friend whose authority was much grander if he got the ultimate credit, and Octavian gave him basically everything else than that.
@@KingsandGeneralsplease cover battle of Gaza 100BC
Law 1: Never Outshine the Master
If Anthony actually listened to his advisers and retreat while he can despite the supplies are very minimum, will this changed the battle's outcome or was the fate of this battle decided before it even fought?
He would be trapped in greece. Imagine Cleopatra, descendant of Ptolemy and the last diadochi ruler meet her end not in Egypt but in the land of her ancestor.
Throughout the civil war, Octovian was not very popular. The dude lacked his father's charisma and respect. He only won because his rival Anthony was so hated for associating himself with a foreign queen.
Well, now that's an alternate history premise worthy of a series of novels: What if Antony and Octavian had exchanged gifts of Ridge products to bury the hatchet?
keep up with these great video about Roman history
I kept on cheering for Marc Anthony during this whole video. Seeing an alternate history where him and Cleopatra won would be truly awesome.
Thanks for another wonderful video! ⚔🔥👏
Best channel. Solid explanations, animations. Minimal drama ( as if politics and war arent dramatic enough lol )
Another anniversary on which we remember how history of independent, ancient Egypt has ended and history of Roman Empire began... Something ends, something begins... To think that history of Europe and entire world could be different if fleet of Octavian wasn't triumphant that day...
I really appreciate the alternative perspective explanation you gave for Antony and Cleopatra's departure from the battle.. History is written by the winner and as we know propaganda existed way back then.. Excellent narration, montage and research work btw..
They conveniently left out certain details to prevent that from messing up their portrayal.
Antony had to literally swim in the ocean to a smaller boat, and scramble together more fast ships while Cleopatra was disappearing over the horizon, to pursue her ships.
When Antony eventually caught up with Cleopatra's flagship he transferred to her ship he refused to speak to her and he sat on the bow of that ship for 3 days, staring into nothingness...and then later he committed suicide.
Antony tried to lure Agrippa into into the gulf (300 Thermopylae style), but Agrippa didn't take the bait because not battling was ideal for Agrippa.
The battle happened because Antony tried to harass Agrippa's left flank, but more and more ships had to be committed (to prevent flanking), and eventually the entire line was engaged, except Cleopatra's fleet who stayed. This was obviously not the battle Antony planned to have.
The fact that Antony had to swim and hustle for a ship, as well as the fact that those ships had their sails and masts removed before the battle means no preparations were made to escape by Antony.
Cleopatra on the other hand, did not have sails removed for battle. Sails and masts are not needed in battle with rowing ships that ram enemies, it just in the way...hence why its ideally removed before battle and left on shore. Sails are for sailing long distances. So, instead of preparing for battle, she prepared to sail a long distance.
Whereas, Antony did not make any preparations to escape or even join up with her ship. Instead he had to hustle to make that happen, on the fly.
If Antony really planned to abandon his entire fleet, his entire army, his source of military power (greece), as well as control of the eastern Mediterranean just so he could kill himself, then it was an nonsensical plan.
Its pretty obvious what happened, hence why Octavian wasn't stupid enough to try and milk a premeditated escape story for his propaganda machine. Had Antony really premeditatively planned to betray all of his own allies and troops, Octavian would have milked that dry for propaganda.
Thanks a lot for that thorough explanation.. Where did you get this source?.. Just curious.. Very interesting.. Really appreciated :) @@tylerdurden3722
I think that Cleopatra was very wrong to meddle in Roman affairs firstly by giving birth to a son to Caesar and secondly by marrying Mark Antony
And I think if the Kingdom of Meroe, which was smaller than Ptolemaic Egypt, could defend itself against the Romans, and with Queen Amanirenas at the head of the battle, so could Ptolemaic Egypt
The relationship between Octavian and Agrippa reminds me of Justinian and Belisaurius
truly amazing, best channel around for roman history!
are you ever going to do anything on pompeys conquests from before the civil war?
Down the line
No rush, have you ever looked into getting some of your long videos onto a history tv channel? The work of you and history marche is unmatched and it's a shame not everyone knows about your channels.
Its a shame that Agrippa's life story was deliberately destroyed, that dude was such a military genius, he should be up there with Caesar and Alexander the Great. He's definitely one of my favorite figures from Antiquity.
What also makes him so wholesome is that he was always content with his positions, he wasn't a power hungry egotistical maniac.
Class as always
I enjoyed your video and I gave it a Thumbs Up
Thanks!
Thank you for the video ⚔️
another argument for a break-out scenario: Cleopatra and Marc Anthony stored the treasure on board and they kept the sails on board. In ancient times they didn't take those if they wanted a full fledged fight. (sails could be set on fire when used in battle; why take them if you don't want to use it?)
An excellent theory. I should have studied the battle more. Thank you.
lord, this feels like a netflix show with all the virtue nods.
I have been waiting for this video for ages
I can't help but compare Antony to Pyrrhus. Both had quite a good start to their military careers but a succession of strategic and tactical blunders cost them both in the end.
Roman Content ! Always and More Roman Content !!!! Except for when u have other awesome videos
I'm so much conditioned by Historia Civilis that I was very much distraught by the lack of Jetsons-spaceship engine sound after Agrippa being mentioned 😅😅
Few moments in history actually changed the entire world. This was one of them.
North and South America and China have entered the chat. "Entire world" my butt
Sorry, every time Agrippa is mentioned, I picture him as a rapidly spinning square with Jetsons-style rocket sounds à la Historia Civilis!
Day 2 of asking for a documentary on the Battle of Aljubarrota and the war between Portugal and Castilla
I do hope we can get more videos of early Roman Empire history like the Dacian wars or Trajan’s conquest
Great video keep it up you're doing amazing things 😁👍
The theories offered about the aftermath of Actium are quite interesting. And I like to think that it wasn't cowardice that caused things to unravel as it did.
Hi just wondering will you continue with a series that shows Octavian becoming emperor and Rome as an empire?
Likely
@@KingsandGenerals the post Caesar series was brilliant 👏👏
Actually just re-watched the previous post-Ceasar conflict videos yesterday, what a pleasant surprise this is.
The Fall of a Roman Legatus and His Egyptian Queen but also the rise of Rome's first Imperator and the founder of a legacy!
Just one or two more to wrap the series up. Nice.
Octavian was real lucky to have AGRIPPA. A man of many talents
It's strange that Mark antony who was usually aggressive earlier suffer from indecision, Wonder what caused this?
Very nice video. Always a big fan of this battle.
Very informative❤
What’s better? Total War Rome remastered or Imperator Rome. Which is more about diplomacy and battles? And can you guide your battles or only spectate?
12:12 Sausious? What a saucy fellow! These names! Heard a Tittius yesterday too! 😂
Love this Augustus series
"The executions will continue until morale improves" sure is a bold strstegy.
11:50 Why does that one ship have a yellow outline 😅?
14:35 Perhaps because of this.
Ah, Roman stuff always brings my smile
Agrippa and Augustus greatest Bromance in all of history. Agrippa was far more than Augustus's good servant and friend, Agrippa was The reason why Augustus became an Emperor . Augustus owed everything to Agrippa . But the good thing, is the fact , that Augustus, more than anyone , recognized this .
No greater proof of this , was when in 12 b.c., when Augustus learned of Agrippa's death , Augustus was completely devastated. Augustus himself would place Agrippa's ashes in his own mausoleum
Octavian and Agrippa would make one heck of an ancient buddy cop movie. Octavian would be hard boiled try hard with visions of being the ultimate cop while Agrippa gets all the promotions and praise but isn't ambitious.
9:05 Other way around. Caesar besieged Pompey at Dyrrachium and cut off his water supply.
This is correct an embarrassing mistake on my part considering I wrote the fricking Dyrrachium video! Thank you for pointing this out though, I'll make sure it's corrected when all these videos get compiled into a longer form one.
It looks like history repeats itself with minor differences.