Wouldn’t it be more frugal to reduce the amount of levain maintained to just what you needed to bake 2 loaves with enough left over to continue the process? 🤷🏼♀️
I was introduced to this recently through the youtube video Pan Rustico, a student of Ken's. Yes. Things have changed. For example, We don't use the hard BPA bucket as shown here. The Huntington Beach, CA company that makes these now offers neutral, non BPA containers. I've made Ken's recipes 4 times now, playing around with flour ratios and the bread always turns out heavenlyl. Haven't tried the sour dough yet....I played around with that back in the 70s in Philly but I was using 1849 gold miners' recipes that didn't work out so well for me so I lost interest. The last bread making book I bought which I still own was the Tassajara Bread Book produced by Buddhist Monks in Big Sur back in the 60s, early 70s. To be honest, those recipes were not very good although I followed them for years because I didn't know any better. Today, I broke down and ordered Ken's book. Why am I even baking my own bread these days??? Because I'm sick of buying sickly sweet U.S. "health" loaves where the first ingredient is always SUGAR! If I lived in Europe I wouldn't be forced into doing this but finding any decent non-sugared bread in the U.S. is virtually impossible! Same with tortillas. I'm forced to make those now too....unless I'm okay with eating crap, which I'm not. So thanks Ken! for making bread making (no pun intended) a piece of cake!
I remember going into an East Coast diner back in the early 70s and just on a whim, asking the waitress if she had sour dough toast. She smiled and said, "We sure do!" I was amazed and ecstatic! 10 minutes later she plops down some toast. I called her over and said, "Excuse me...this isn't sour dough toast! She hesitated, looked surprised and then said, "Oh...I thought you asked for a SIDE ORDER OF TOAST! I've never even HEARD of sourdough toast!" "What's that??" LOL!
What size of the proofing bowl is it? 9” or 10”? What is the diameter of the Dutch oven pan? This is all necessary information for a successful loaf of bread. Thank you.
So from your viewpoint are Levain and starter the same? I am using starter to make Levain which matures overnight and then use it to make sourdough bread. Thanks !
Idk why but my levian is always too watery.. i have no idea why. Im taking 75g of my starter, 80 grams of water and 80 g of wheat flour. But all the videos i look, the consistency of the levian is reaaaally thick.. mine is just like a thick milkshake. And I believe that is the reason why im not getting a workable dough to make mine sourdough bread. Maybe the flour im using? Or the weather? Or the temperature of the water? Idk.. I always end up with a really stick dough.. i know its supposed to be stick, but mine is so stick, i cant even work with.. i cant even take all the dough out of the container.
The hydration of your starter isn’t the issue, it’s the hydration of the dough. His recipes are very high hydration which isn’t a good start for beginning bakers. Odds are the dough is way to wet for you, and when you’re finally ready to shape, your dough doesn’t have enough strength and gluten development. Start at a hydration of 65-70% and become comfortable working with that dough. Only then should you work yourself up. Many of us “sourdough snobs” get caught up in constantly doing high hydration when you’re not ready for it. You can make excellent sourdough bread with a low hydration if you know how to handle the dough.
Crikey, chucking out so much leaven (to use the English word)! You can make up a lot less at a time, and what you don't require for your new leaven culture makes wonderful pancakes. I save up any extra and make pancakes for two when I have 250g of leaven (just add an egg, a little melted butter, a little salt, water to thin to the right consistency, finally stir in a little baking soda and voilà).
In your book, your guideline how to make levain for 5 days? how do people keep their base levain for years? Do they throw away the remaining fermented levain and culture it for years past 5 days?
Don't throw it away. Our grandparents never did. It was too precious to them. This is the western attitude, yeah, discard it in the sink while you can make delicious sourdough pancakes, waffles out of it. You could add to your potato pancakes mix to give more flavour , too or just fry it with some salt and pepper to serve it as base for a morning egg and bacon breakfast. Top it up with fried onions. Please never discard your SD starter.
Thanks for the videos, Ken! The book is amazing and I just stumbled across your playlist. Good stuff. Question about the levain discard: You say in the video to consider it as spent fuel. Is it worthwhile to use it as part of another recipe instead of throwing it away? Will it ruin the batch if added?
Whenever I make sourdough bread, I make pancakes to accompany the extra levain I would normally "throw" away. I actually found this in Nancy Silverton's book "Breads from the La Brea Bakery" (not shilling or anything, but just want to give credit where credit is due). While she recommends a particular amount of levain for the recipe, I just use whatever I have leftover and change the ratios for the maple syrup, oil, eggs, salt, baking powder, and baking soda. She also has a recipe for waffles, but as I don't have a waffle maker, I have never tried them. Seriously guys, if you feel guilty throwing after the levain (which I am), just make some pancakes. Granted, I'm not making bread every day and feed my starter once or twice a week, so if you do make bread more regularly, this may not be for you. But even if you don't think you can go through them all right away, you can always freeze them and pop one or two in the toaster in the morning before work for a great breakfast.
Sourdough Belgian waffles with strawberry sauce and whipped cream. Heavenly combination. Whip the egg whites into stiff peaks and fold gently into the batter.
I have a 2-week old levain that I started with all rye flour. I feed it daily and don't refrigerate it. When I feed, I remove all but 50 grams from the container, add 50 grams rye flour, 200 grams all-purpose flour, and 200 grams 95F water. Every time I go to feed it, it smells strongly of acetone? Is this a problem? If so, what can I do to fix it?
Use cooler water. According to Harold Magees book "Food and Cooking" the increased heat favors bacterial growth which is probably giving it that smell. Using room temp water favors growth of the yeast,which should minimize that smell.
I have heard people say they don't like sourdough, but I don't think that's true. It seems there's alot of crappy bread out there that is sold under the name of sourdough but isn't. why don you want starter? to replace yeast or to add flavor? if for flavor, just mix a very liquidy mixture of quarter teaspoon of yeast water and flour the night before and in the morning u'll have ur starter.
@@hovhannisyanyuri for yeast. So I do not have to worry about no yeast available at the stores or if something happened and there was no more store yeast I'd have yeast to make bread. I just want to keep live yeast for yeast rolls, cinimmon buns, white loafs of bread, subway sandwich breads, ECT. Surely there's a yeast starter for that type of bread or is sourdough the same thing, like the same taste when you have fresh live yeast instead of a store bought sourdough bread
timechanges everybody Look up fruit ferments, you can have fruit yeast water to make your dough. Put some grapes or raisins or juniper berries (any fruit that has a white yeast powder on them) and fill with water, let ferment and use the water, it takes about a couple of days to bubble. Forgot the name of the vids I watched, it has the name Rain something.
Thought in the book it said to keep 200g of levain not 100. I’ve been feeding my levain for 6 days and just don’t feel it’s right. I don’t care about the “spent fuel” I just love having to feed it. I just don’t think my levain is as good as it should be. I will reduce what I keep to 100g instead of 2 and maybe that will help :)
You need at least 200 g in order to always have at least 100 g when you go to feed it. If you have, let's say 200 g, and then it's time to feed it, you discard 100 g leaving you 100 g to feed. He never said "only keep 100 g" - it's just the amount you need to still have in the container before feeding. Hope that helps
@@audreystahl6035 Thank you Audrey! I did get some Rye and I finally did have success with my levain. THEN I discovered poolish, I've been making the poolish bread from Ken's book every weekend for the last 4 weeks. I actually like it better than sourdough. It's a bit lighter and SO much easier to make without having to feed a levain for a week.
I find the whole subject of starters, levains confusing.I have a 20 day old selfmade rye starter, and don't understand about what a mature starter is from which I make a levain.Mine was in fridge from which I used 1 tbsp to make a levain as described by Chad Robertson, the bread didn't rise. Now I have refreshed my starter but am too scared to waste 1kilo of flour with it. It's confusing!
That's the issue with Levain as a starter, you're trying to get it to be yeasty without adding yeast. It's chemistry and sometimes it doesn't work perfectly. Practice makes perfect
Did you take directly from the starter that was in the fridge? After you take it out of the fridge it will likely need a number of feedings to bring it's activity up.
Thanks. Have you seen the Fabulous Baker Brothers and there recipe with 300g pure starter? I used one TBSP starter with 100g 50/50 flour and 100g water, and the next day I have my levain. I was inspired by Nicholas Supiot...now where is the trough!
You're thinking starter. Starter is the mother culture that the levain is taken from, but the terms are fairly interchangeable - you could pull directly from your mother culture ("starter") and use that as the levain in the bread.
Yes if you wish it can contain what ever you like. however if you wish to understand how the flavor develops and why do some research about levain tartine books are a gr eat start for beginners I have been a pastry chef and baker for over 25 years multiple degrees in food science. chemistry along with professional accolades I have and continue to teach privately and for several well knowns Internationally when I give this information it is based on experience and expertise
hi,how r u?well i have problem with my bread texture..the recipe i m using does not have levain or biga in it..how can i add levain into it..how much levain should i add?
bread texture? I'm not the guy in this video but I know a bit about the topic. if you have a levain that is healthy and want to bake the same day you mix your dough I would add for 20-30% levain to 100% flour.(remember is not the recipe is the method) I hope this help's
Ken Forkish, you should be ashamed of yourself, throwing away hundreds of kilos of flour in the trash, when other fellow humans are starving to death elsewhere. Not only you throw away those crazy amounts of flour, you also teach the world to be careless like you do. What a disgrace!
All the while providing food for thousands of people. Perhaps you should be into the wheat fields in pick up and fallen grains of wheat the combine left behind.
Wouldn’t it be more frugal to reduce the amount of levain maintained to just what you needed to bake 2 loaves with enough left over to continue the process? 🤷🏼♀️
I thought the same thing too. Maybe you would then have to feed it twice a day? Not sure, but I discovered poolish and became a convert :)
I was introduced to this recently through the youtube video Pan Rustico, a student of Ken's. Yes. Things have changed. For example, We don't use the hard BPA bucket as shown here. The Huntington Beach, CA company that makes these now offers neutral, non BPA containers. I've made Ken's recipes 4 times now, playing around with flour ratios and the bread always turns out heavenlyl. Haven't tried the sour dough yet....I played around with that back in the 70s in Philly but I was using 1849 gold miners' recipes that didn't work out so well for me so I lost interest. The last bread making book I bought which I still own was the Tassajara Bread Book produced by Buddhist Monks in Big Sur back in the 60s, early 70s. To be honest, those recipes were not very good although I followed them for years because I didn't know any better. Today, I broke down and ordered Ken's book. Why am I even baking my own bread these days??? Because I'm sick of buying sickly sweet U.S. "health" loaves where the first ingredient is always SUGAR! If I lived in Europe I wouldn't be forced into doing this but finding any decent non-sugared bread in the U.S. is virtually impossible! Same with tortillas. I'm forced to make those now too....unless I'm okay with eating crap, which I'm not. So thanks Ken! for making bread making (no pun intended) a piece of cake!
The bit about "too sour" is interesting. I prefer sour tang if possible.
True sourdough doesn't always have a overly sour taste. But if you prefer that go for it
I remember going into an East Coast diner back in the early 70s and just on a whim, asking the waitress if she had sour dough toast. She smiled and said, "We sure do!" I was amazed and ecstatic! 10 minutes later she plops down some toast. I called her over and said, "Excuse me...this isn't sour dough toast! She hesitated, looked surprised and then said, "Oh...I thought you asked for a SIDE ORDER OF TOAST! I've never even HEARD of sourdough toast!" "What's that??" LOL!
Me too
What size of the proofing bowl is it?
9” or 10”?
What is the diameter of the Dutch oven pan? This is all necessary information for a successful loaf of bread. Thank you.
All recipes in his book use a 9 inch banneton and a 4 quart Dutch oven (10 inches wide and 4 inches deep)
So from your viewpoint are Levain and starter the same? I am using starter to make Levain which matures overnight and then use it to make sourdough bread. Thanks !
Idk why but my levian is always too watery.. i have no idea why. Im taking 75g of my starter, 80 grams of water and 80 g of wheat flour.
But all the videos i look, the consistency of the levian is reaaaally thick.. mine is just like a thick milkshake.
And I believe that is the reason why im not getting a workable dough to make mine sourdough bread.
Maybe the flour im using? Or the weather? Or the temperature of the water? Idk..
I always end up with a really stick dough..
i know its supposed to be stick, but mine is so stick, i cant even work with.. i cant even take all the dough out of the container.
his levain is 80% hydration, while yours is 100%
The hydration of your starter isn’t the issue, it’s the hydration of the dough. His recipes are very high hydration which isn’t a good start for beginning bakers. Odds are the dough is way to wet for you, and when you’re finally ready to shape, your dough doesn’t have enough strength and gluten development. Start at a hydration of 65-70% and become comfortable working with that dough. Only then should you work yourself up. Many of us “sourdough snobs” get caught up in constantly doing high hydration when you’re not ready for it. You can make excellent sourdough bread with a low hydration if you know how to handle the dough.
Crikey, chucking out so much leaven (to use the English word)! You can make up a lot less at a time, and what you don't require for your new leaven culture makes wonderful pancakes. I save up any extra and make pancakes for two when I have 250g of leaven (just add an egg, a little melted butter, a little salt, water to thin to the right consistency, finally stir in a little baking soda and voilà).
Any disadvantage to divide all the weight by 2? I.e. add 250g of whole wheat every day instead of 500g?
I have done this and I got good results
In your book, your guideline how to make levain for 5 days? how do people keep their base levain for years? Do they throw away the remaining fermented levain and culture it for years past 5 days?
as long as you keep feeding it from time to time to keep the bacteria alive you can keep it forever in theory
Don't throw it away. Our grandparents never did. It was too precious to them. This is the western attitude, yeah, discard it in the sink while you can make delicious sourdough pancakes, waffles out of it. You could add to your potato pancakes mix to give more flavour , too or just fry it with some salt and pepper to serve it as base for a morning egg and bacon breakfast. Top it up with fried onions. Please never discard your SD starter.
You take what's needed for the recipe, keep some to feed and either discard the rest or use the discard in other recipes.
Thanks for the videos, Ken! The book is amazing and I just stumbled across your playlist. Good stuff. Question about the levain discard: You say in the video to consider it as spent fuel. Is it worthwhile to use it as part of another recipe instead of throwing it away? Will it ruin the batch if added?
Whenever I make sourdough bread, I make pancakes to accompany the extra levain I would normally "throw" away. I actually found this in Nancy Silverton's book "Breads from the La Brea Bakery" (not shilling or anything, but just want to give credit where credit is due). While she recommends a particular amount of levain for the recipe, I just use whatever I have leftover and change the ratios for the maple syrup, oil, eggs, salt, baking powder, and baking soda. She also has a recipe for waffles, but as I don't have a waffle maker, I have never tried them. Seriously guys, if you feel guilty throwing after the levain (which I am), just make some pancakes. Granted, I'm not making bread every day and feed my starter once or twice a week, so if you do make bread more regularly, this may not be for you. But even if you don't think you can go through them all right away, you can always freeze them and pop one or two in the toaster in the morning before work for a great breakfast.
Sourdough Belgian waffles with strawberry sauce and whipped cream. Heavenly combination. Whip the egg whites into stiff peaks and fold gently into the batter.
I have a 2-week old levain that I started with all rye flour. I feed it daily and don't refrigerate it. When I feed, I remove all but 50 grams from the container, add 50 grams rye flour, 200 grams all-purpose flour, and 200 grams 95F water. Every time I go to feed it, it smells strongly of acetone? Is this a problem? If so, what can I do to fix it?
Use cooler water. According to Harold Magees book "Food and Cooking" the increased heat favors bacterial growth which is probably giving it that smell. Using room temp water favors growth of the yeast,which should minimize that smell.
I need a yeast starter recipe to make white bread. Can this be done? All I can find is sourdough and I don't like sourdough
I have heard people say they don't like sourdough, but I don't think that's true. It seems there's alot of crappy bread out there that is sold under the name of sourdough but isn't. why don you want starter? to replace yeast or to add flavor? if for flavor, just mix a very liquidy mixture of quarter teaspoon of yeast water and flour the night before and in the morning u'll have ur starter.
@@hovhannisyanyuri for yeast. So I do not have to worry about no yeast available at the stores or if something happened and there was no more store yeast I'd have yeast to make bread. I just want to keep live yeast for yeast rolls, cinimmon buns, white loafs of bread, subway sandwich breads, ECT. Surely there's a yeast starter for that type of bread or is sourdough the same thing, like the same taste when you have fresh live yeast instead of a store bought sourdough bread
timechanges everybody Look up fruit ferments, you can have fruit yeast water to make your dough. Put some grapes or raisins or juniper berries (any fruit that has a white yeast powder on them) and fill with water, let ferment and use the water, it takes about a couple of days to bubble. Forgot the name of the vids I watched, it has the name Rain something.
timechanges everybody RainCountry is the YT channel
Thought in the book it said to keep 200g of levain not 100. I’ve been feeding my levain for 6 days and just don’t feel it’s right. I don’t care about the “spent fuel” I just love having to feed it. I just don’t think my levain is as good as it should be. I will reduce what I keep to 100g instead of 2 and maybe that will help :)
You need at least 200 g in order to always have at least 100 g when you go to feed it. If you have, let's say 200 g, and then it's time to feed it, you discard 100 g leaving you 100 g to feed. He never said "only keep 100 g" - it's just the amount you need to still have in the container before feeding. Hope that helps
Help! About 5-6 days in, my levain starts smelling like acetone. This is my third try and I'm getting so frustrated. Can anyone help?
I use Bobs Red Mill APF. Some suggest starting with Rye flour. Keep trying
@@audreystahl6035 Thank you Audrey! I did get some Rye and I finally did have success with my levain. THEN I discovered poolish, I've been making the poolish bread from Ken's book every weekend for the last 4 weeks. I actually like it better than sourdough. It's a bit lighter and SO much easier to make without having to feed a levain for a week.
I find the whole subject of starters, levains confusing.I have a 20 day old selfmade rye starter, and don't understand about what a mature starter is from which I make a levain.Mine was in fridge from which I used 1 tbsp to make a levain as described by Chad Robertson, the bread didn't rise. Now I have refreshed my starter but am too scared to waste 1kilo of flour with it. It's confusing!
That's the issue with Levain as a starter, you're trying to get it to be yeasty without adding yeast. It's chemistry and sometimes it doesn't work perfectly. Practice makes perfect
Did you take directly from the starter that was in the fridge? After you take it out of the fridge it will likely need a number of feedings to bring it's activity up.
I don't understnad..I have made a starter, and will make a levain, but what is the difference of starter and levain?
Levain is basically the same thing as a sourdough starter. (French term)
Thanks. Have you seen the Fabulous Baker Brothers and there recipe with 300g pure starter? I used one TBSP starter with 100g 50/50 flour and 100g water, and the next day I have my levain. I was inspired by Nicholas Supiot...now where is the trough!
Levain needs to be fed several days before you could use it, not just one day.
You're thinking starter. Starter is the mother culture that the levain is taken from, but the terms are fairly interchangeable - you could pull directly from your mother culture ("starter") and use that as the levain in the bread.
It’s unfortunate that Ken or an associate won’t answer questions on here.
Trial and error is the answer to all your questions
What is the hydration of this starter?
He uses 40% water, 10% levain, 40% white flour, and 10% whole wheat
a levain does not contain commercial yeast. usally contains whole wheat and or eye
I've never had bread with eye. Sorry, but I'm a vegetarian
Levain can contain what ever you want.
Give me the whole wheat and put the EYE on the side. Thanks!
Yes if you wish it can contain what ever you like. however if you wish to understand how the flavor develops and why do some research about levain
tartine books are a gr eat start for beginners
I have been a pastry chef and baker for over 25 years
multiple degrees in food science. chemistry along with professional accolades
I have and continue to teach privately and for several well knowns Internationally
when I give this information it is based on experience and expertise
hi,how r u?well i have problem with my bread texture..the recipe i m using does not have levain or biga in it..how can i add levain into it..how much levain should i add?
Your recipe for making a levain seems wrong. I’ve poured over your book the past few months. I’m on day 5, and my levain still has never risen.
typo rye
bread texture? I'm not the guy in this video but I know a bit about the topic. if you have a levain that is healthy and want to bake the same day you mix your dough I would add for 20-30% levain to 100% flour.(remember is not the recipe is the method) I hope this help's
the first thing you learn in the bakery you don't waste anything.
You're mumbling.
Ken Forkish, you should be ashamed of yourself, throwing away hundreds of kilos of flour in the trash, when other fellow humans are starving to death elsewhere. Not only you throw away those crazy amounts of flour, you also teach the world to be careless like you do. What a disgrace!
All the while providing food for thousands of people. Perhaps you should be into the wheat fields in pick up and fallen grains of wheat the combine left behind.