Hello everyone, I am the Kevin who printed the PEEK parts :) First of all a big thank you to Igor for taking the time to do such material tests.👍 When printing such small cross sections as the tensile specimens, it is always very difficult to hit the perfect point between overheating and poor layer adhesion. FDM printing of high-performance polymers presents new challenges that do not arise when printing standard materials such as PLA. It is basically possible to produce isotropic components using zone heater technology. The Apium printers are used, among other things, to produce cranial implants for which precisely these isotropic properties are crucial. However, this requires a large number of test runs, as the printing parameters always depend heavily on the component geometry. Unfortunately, in this case I did not have the time to experiment with the optimum layer adhesion for this geometry myself. I only printed and sent one set of test components at a time. I will take a closer look at this problem in the next few weeks... The mechanical properties are not the only thing that makes PEEK, PEI etc. special. Rather, it is the combination of the sometimes unique properties that justifies the use of high-performance polymers. For this reason, it is not correct to “reduce” the materials to their mechanical properties.
Kevin, thanks so much for donating your time and materials to this video. It's really interesting to see the benefits and drawbacks of this material in 3DP, and that's coming from someone who's done a lot of medical PEEK machining from solid stock.
That's why I got quoted 3k euro for essentially 40g of plastic, now I get it. Thank you Kevin for the material and the work. And thank Igor for the great video! PS: I design medical devices😁
@@olafmarzocchi6194 You are right, I think that these pinholes are the reason why the hook test of the PEEK CF10 turned out less well. Under the microscope you can see the composition of these components very well (I´ve done some Research with Zeiss microscope up to 1000x) and it quickly becomes clear that it is not a homogeneous part, such as a milled part. For this reason, FDM printed parts will never have the strength of milled parts. However, 3D printing has a lot of other advantages, such as no tooling costs, lower machine costs and, above all, the possibility of producing geometries that were not possible by machining :)
There is something weird about Peek - maybe the layer adhesion really suffers from such a small cross section. Imagine you are printing a 10 times bigger section, it means the whole layer will be receiving that heat treatment for more time. Things are not scaling properly for this material - it probably needs a different way to test it and show the full picture. Excellent video my friend!
If you made test objects 10x the area, the xy specimens would need 2 tons to break, so I'm not sure that is the answer. Maybe igor could test some lower cost filament and find out if this condition is occurring across the board. Some investigations into print layer time could also be interesting. If your print profile doesn't offer adequate layer time if could degrade the material.
Small cross section would actually be a better test for layer adhesion as the layer time is much lower so the component is much hotter while the layer above is deposited, making the layer adhesion MUCH better
This channel slowly becomes a nightmare of all these "high" tech materials, costing astronomical amounts of money. Except for very high temp and chemical resistance - there is in fact nothing super special about them. And also - this is now the only channel that tests these materials in large scale! It was so hard to find some videos about these - and now we have it! Igor may rename his channel to something like "filament mythbuster" :D Thanks for a great job and showing real-world properties of these materials compared to "normal" filaments!
@@polycrystallinecandy We use these materials in less than 1% of the prints - automotive braking systems development. The only scenario where we reach for these materials, are temperature tests of various brake components in a climate chambers. And then we need holders / fixtures that can withstand higher temps (100-150C) for several days - thats where we print from PEI or similar materials. In all other cases - PETG, ASA, PC, PA and TPU.
@@nufnuf816 I see. What about outside of 3D printing, like if you were to use molding or machining? Is it the printing process that doesn't work well for those materials, or are the materials themselves not worth it outside of narrow use cases?
"except for high temp and chemical resistance" - this is the exact use case for many superpolymers! Especially the combination of both is where ordinary engineering polymers fail. In my experience, there are two use cases where superpolymers shine: first, a combination of heat and chemical load that would deteriorate stainless steels, or second, metal replacements for low load applications (= low density is key) that need FST ratings and certifications, like plane cabin parts. Sure, there are many other use cases that require different combinations of properties, but most of them are rather niche. There is a reason you propably won't find PEI or PEEK in the engine bay of your car, and this reason is called Polyamide. For most use cases, it's just good enough - as you stated in your comment.
@@polycrystallinecandy As I mentioned in a different comment, I've done a lot of medical PEEK parts (machined), as well as other relatively rare polymers like polysulfone and Vespel. The materials themselves are very useful from an engineering viewpoint (high temp, hardness, lubricity, biocompatibility, etc.), but frequently the main restriction is cost - Vespel is $100USD or more per 2.5cm cubed block. Some applications make it very worthwhile, just have analyze the $/benefit.
PEEK still impressive even with the Weak Layer adhesion. The Full Properties of it really make it a AS NEEDED filament for sure. Especially for the Price.
Thank you Igor for these videos. The industrial segment using PEEK because of the incomparable wear properties compared to other plastics. We will test the layer adhesion with different layer highes/nozzle size and setups, i hope i can find better results :)
Hi! I'm just starting to print from carbon and I really like your videos. And I like that you approach everything scientifically. You have a feature that can be used - you compare filaments better than others. You can organize something like a felament arena. I understand that most likely you have this for Patreon. This is a good viral topic. I can help with web. I also suggest the following viral topics: 1. Review of printed, hard loaded parts in work (bushings, joints, gears) 2. Super small strong parts (gear with 1mm tooth) 3. External processing (sanding, plaster, paint) 4. Embedded elements (magnets, strong rods, inserts) 5. Examples of printed super strong structures vs bad ones
I guess peek is not to be used for us hobbyist, but for professionals in medical applications. I think I will use pet-cf as my strongest filament and use some cnc service for parts that need to be very strong and reliable. Thanks for your video’s
Remelting zone done whit IR heated metal emiter? IR laser diode(s) whoud be much beter solution, remelting just in front of the nozle. Faster, beter controled in real time.
I absolutely agree that if a filament has weak layer adhesion, then it's a subpar material for 3d printing. I understand that one can overcome weak layer adhesion by designing an object that prints flat, but I think such a mentality decreases the advantage of 3D printing over traditional CNC. It's funny peek might have great heat resistance and chemical resistance but with how brittle it is one should just use Resin Printers, its not hard to find a common resin that can handle 300c or more and be chemically resistant. Edit: hopefully vision minor can show peek is actually usable as a 3d printing material and not just hype.
Yes. Fiberon PET-CF is in progress, after this PLUS4 review and then PPS-CF (I have all Fiberon filaments here). But I also have 3 different PPS-CF filaments here (Qidi, Bambu, Polymaker)
PEEK is very viscous even at high temperature above 350degC. To get a good weld, some level of mixing or diffusion is needed at the bond line. This is usually achieved by high temperature (lower viscosity, activate diffusion), time (let things develop) and pressure (force material mixing/diffusion). And there is the issue of crystalinity that can ruin the weld line. With FDM of PEEK, it is needeed to reheat the top surface of the part or to print very slowly to heat the surface by conduction or radiation... but there is not much time nor pressure to have a proper welding. Based on my experience, PEEK is one of the worst material to print. PEKK or PEI is much more suitable for high temp applications!
It would be nice to inspect the PEEK CF10 parts at the failure points with a microscope, seeing that its numbers are not really in between pure PEEK and PEEK CF30.
Please compare with parts made with a CNC. One day I had to cut a small part in peek and I had to us a tungsten cutter because it was too hard with the stainless steel one for my hand.
Peek has it's downsides like every polymer. Sure it's a strong polymer, but where it excels is extremely high temperature resistance and extreme chemical resistance. Nylon still remains as the toughest material and is why it's used in so many applications, however it will literally dissolve into nothingness where peek would remain true as if it was place in the open air.
PEEK is a wonder material for its chemical properties, not the physical ones. Its the only polymer used in ultra-high-vacuum application like a Neutron Collider, Electron microscope, or in space. Other polimers decompose... Also its chemical stability is incredible. Making it great for food, pharmaceutical, or lab settings... And it is form stable in high temperatures without fuming (like teflon). These test dont do it justice...
@@mateogomales-it3eo exactly this. I don't think it matters if these tests do it justice, because the only people who actually need PEEK will use it regardless of what anyone says. In injection molded form though it's quite the strong material
A reason your views are not high is more than likely your thick accent, I actually unsubbed for quite awhile because I just could not understand you. I am every impressed with anyone that is bi-lingual as I could not learn another language if my life depended on it and believe me I have tried. I'm not criticizing, just pointing that fact out. :)
Informative. Thx. Maybe I will give it a try, use AI to replace my voice. BTW I am penta-lingual, and English is only my 4th language, I don't think I can do it better myself.
@@MyTechFun It's a shame there is not an option to toggle between your voice and an AI one, I would be willing to bet there will be in the future. The problem though with AI voice-overs is too many scam channels use it so new users may be turned away. so maybe do a test vid and have your veiwers give input on it before making any significant changes. GL you do great work. :)
Hello everyone, I am the Kevin who printed the PEEK parts :)
First of all a big thank you to Igor for taking the time to do such material tests.👍
When printing such small cross sections as the tensile specimens, it is always very difficult to hit the perfect point between overheating and poor layer adhesion. FDM printing of high-performance polymers presents new challenges that do not arise when printing standard materials such as PLA.
It is basically possible to produce isotropic components using zone heater technology. The Apium printers are used, among other things, to produce cranial implants for which precisely these isotropic properties are crucial. However, this requires a large number of test runs, as the printing parameters always depend heavily on the component geometry. Unfortunately, in this case I did not have the time to experiment with the optimum layer adhesion for this geometry myself. I only printed and sent one set of test components at a time. I will take a closer look at this problem in the next few weeks...
The mechanical properties are not the only thing that makes PEEK, PEI etc. special. Rather, it is the combination of the sometimes unique properties that justifies the use of high-performance polymers. For this reason, it is not correct to “reduce” the materials to their mechanical properties.
Kevin, thanks so much for donating your time and materials to this video. It's really interesting to see the benefits and drawbacks of this material in 3DP, and that's coming from someone who's done a lot of medical PEEK machining from solid stock.
That's why I got quoted 3k euro for essentially 40g of plastic, now I get it.
Thank you Kevin for the material and the work.
And thank Igor for the great video!
PS: I design medical devices😁
Your printer is very well calibrated, those top surfaces are perfect, pinholes aside which would need adapting PA to each speed.
@@olafmarzocchi6194 You are right, I think that these pinholes are the reason why the hook test of the PEEK CF10 turned out less well. Under the microscope you can see the composition of these components very well (I´ve done some Research with Zeiss microscope up to 1000x) and it quickly becomes clear that it is not a homogeneous part, such as a milled part. For this reason, FDM printed parts will never have the strength of milled parts. However, 3D printing has a lot of other advantages, such as no tooling costs, lower machine costs and, above all, the possibility of producing geometries that were not possible by machining :)
There is something weird about Peek - maybe the layer adhesion really suffers from such a small cross section. Imagine you are printing a 10 times bigger section, it means the whole layer will be receiving that heat treatment for more time. Things are not scaling properly for this material - it probably needs a different way to test it and show the full picture. Excellent video my friend!
If you made test objects 10x the area, the xy specimens would need 2 tons to break, so I'm not sure that is the answer.
Maybe igor could test some lower cost filament and find out if this condition is occurring across the board.
Some investigations into print layer time could also be interesting. If your print profile doesn't offer adequate layer time if could degrade the material.
Small cross section would actually be a better test for layer adhesion as the layer time is much lower so the component is much hotter while the layer above is deposited, making the layer adhesion MUCH better
This channel slowly becomes a nightmare of all these "high" tech materials, costing astronomical amounts of money. Except for very high temp and chemical resistance - there is in fact nothing super special about them.
And also - this is now the only channel that tests these materials in large scale! It was so hard to find some videos about these - and now we have it!
Igor may rename his channel to something like "filament mythbuster" :D
Thanks for a great job and showing real-world properties of these materials compared to "normal" filaments!
As good as this channel is, I don't know if it's representative of how these materials are used in engineering applications
@@polycrystallinecandy We use these materials in less than 1% of the prints - automotive braking systems development. The only scenario where we reach for these materials, are temperature tests of various brake components in a climate chambers. And then we need holders / fixtures that can withstand higher temps (100-150C) for several days - thats where we print from PEI or similar materials. In all other cases - PETG, ASA, PC, PA and TPU.
@@nufnuf816 I see. What about outside of 3D printing, like if you were to use molding or machining? Is it the printing process that doesn't work well for those materials, or are the materials themselves not worth it outside of narrow use cases?
"except for high temp and chemical resistance" - this is the exact use case for many superpolymers! Especially the combination of both is where ordinary engineering polymers fail.
In my experience, there are two use cases where superpolymers shine: first, a combination of heat and chemical load that would deteriorate stainless steels, or second, metal replacements for low load applications (= low density is key) that need FST ratings and certifications, like plane cabin parts.
Sure, there are many other use cases that require different combinations of properties, but most of them are rather niche.
There is a reason you propably won't find PEI or PEEK in the engine bay of your car, and this reason is called Polyamide. For most use cases, it's just good enough - as you stated in your comment.
@@polycrystallinecandy As I mentioned in a different comment, I've done a lot of medical PEEK parts (machined), as well as other relatively rare polymers like polysulfone and Vespel. The materials themselves are very useful from an engineering viewpoint (high temp, hardness, lubricity, biocompatibility, etc.), but frequently the main restriction is cost - Vespel is $100USD or more per 2.5cm cubed block. Some applications make it very worthwhile, just have analyze the $/benefit.
PEEK still impressive even with the Weak Layer adhesion. The Full Properties of it really make it a AS NEEDED filament for sure. Especially for the Price.
Excellent video as always!
Thank you Igor for these videos. The industrial segment using PEEK because of the incomparable wear properties compared to other plastics. We will test the layer adhesion with different layer highes/nozzle size and setups, i hope i can find better results :)
I'm super excited Vision Miner is sending you some printed parts. Super excited to see the results!
Hi!
I'm just starting to print from carbon and I really like your videos. And I like that you approach everything scientifically. You have a feature that can be used - you compare filaments better than others. You can organize something like a felament arena.
I understand that most likely you have this for Patreon. This is a good viral topic. I can help with web.
I also suggest the following viral topics:
1. Review of printed, hard loaded parts in work (bushings, joints, gears)
2. Super small strong parts (gear with 1mm tooth)
3. External processing (sanding, plaster, paint)
4. Embedded elements (magnets, strong rods, inserts)
5. Examples of printed super strong structures vs bad ones
I guess peek is not to be used for us hobbyist, but for professionals in medical applications.
I think I will use pet-cf as my strongest filament and use some cnc service for parts that need to be very strong and reliable.
Thanks for your video’s
Love your work Igor. Thanks for putting so much time and effort in, it's a valuable resource.
Thank you for your spiritual support. I need it, since TH-cam algorithm thinks my work is trash :-(
@@MyTechFun That must be really frustrating 😞 You are the undisputed GOAT of filament testing.
I’m looking forward to see the vision miner test!
I really enjoy seeing your content,
Thanks!
Большое спасибо за объективный обзор. Очень полезная информация для планирования разработок и проектов.
Great video. Thanks!
Nice test!
That zone heater looks like something that could be introduced in many DIY printers.
Super interesting information. Thank you very much!
Awesome video as always :)
Awesome video!!
Thanks your great videos.
Remelting zone done whit IR heated metal emiter?
IR laser diode(s) whoud be much beter solution, remelting just in front of the nozle. Faster, beter controled in real time.
I wonder what consumer 3d printers will be in 10 years. Will everyone be printing peek at home on the Creality Diamond and Bambu plutonium printers?
I absolutely agree that if a filament has weak layer adhesion, then it's a subpar material for 3d printing. I understand that one can overcome weak layer adhesion by designing an object that prints flat, but I think such a mentality decreases the advantage of 3D printing over traditional CNC.
It's funny peek might have great heat resistance and chemical resistance but with how brittle it is one should just use Resin Printers, its not hard to find a common resin that can handle 300c or more and be chemically resistant.
Edit: hopefully vision minor can show peek is actually usable as a 3d printing material and not just hype.
I shouldn't notice your videos during work hours
Are you going to look at PPS-CF from Fiberon?
Yes. Fiberon PET-CF is in progress, after this PLUS4 review and then PPS-CF (I have all Fiberon filaments here). But I also have 3 different PPS-CF filaments here (Qidi, Bambu, Polymaker)
@@MyTechFun just ordered some fiberon pet-cf (pretty cheap actually), can't wait to see how it works :)
PEEK is very viscous even at high temperature above 350degC. To get a good weld, some level of mixing or diffusion is needed at the bond line. This is usually achieved by high temperature (lower viscosity, activate diffusion), time (let things develop) and pressure (force material mixing/diffusion). And there is the issue of crystalinity that can ruin the weld line. With FDM of PEEK, it is needeed to reheat the top surface of the part or to print very slowly to heat the surface by conduction or radiation... but there is not much time nor pressure to have a proper welding. Based on my experience, PEEK is one of the worst material to print. PEKK or PEI is much more suitable for high temp applications!
Bravo!
Following Vision Miners TH-cam Channel for several years now and I’m very curious about their Prints:)
It would be nice to inspect the PEEK CF10 parts at the failure points with a microscope, seeing that its numbers are not really in between pure PEEK and PEEK CF30.
very interesting again! regarding their printing temps, 230 bed, 80 air and then infrared at the top again... seems a bit unbalanced but I'm not sure
Please compare with parts made with a CNC.
One day I had to cut a small part in peek and I had to us a tungsten cutter because it was too hard with the stainless steel one for my hand.
This is like comparing steel with gold and saying "its so weak... I dont understand why its so expensive..."
I still like your videos though. Keep them coming!
Seems PEEK is not very good suited for FFM-printing, because of bad layer-adhesion.
And iam feeling like HERO, when ia made good print with PET G 🤣
Peek is a big disappointment
Dont judge too early. Let's wait for Vision Miner parts.
Peek has it's downsides like every polymer. Sure it's a strong polymer, but where it excels is extremely high temperature resistance and extreme chemical resistance. Nylon still remains as the toughest material and is why it's used in so many applications, however it will literally dissolve into nothingness where peek would remain true as if it was place in the open air.
PEEK is a wonder material for its chemical properties, not the physical ones. Its the only polymer used in ultra-high-vacuum application like a Neutron Collider, Electron microscope, or in space. Other polimers decompose...
Also its chemical stability is incredible. Making it great for food, pharmaceutical, or lab settings...
And it is form stable in high temperatures without fuming (like teflon).
These test dont do it justice...
@@mateogomales-it3eo exactly this. I don't think it matters if these tests do it justice, because the only people who actually need PEEK will use it regardless of what anyone says. In injection molded form though it's quite the strong material
A reason your views are not high is more than likely your thick accent, I actually unsubbed for quite awhile because I just could not understand you. I am every impressed with anyone that is bi-lingual as I could not learn another language if my life depended on it and believe me I have tried. I'm not criticizing, just pointing that fact out. :)
Informative. Thx. Maybe I will give it a try, use AI to replace my voice. BTW I am penta-lingual, and English is only my 4th language, I don't think I can do it better myself.
@@MyTechFun It's a shame there is not an option to toggle between your voice and an AI one, I would be willing to bet there will be in the future. The problem though with AI voice-overs is too many scam channels use it so new users may be turned away. so maybe do a test vid and have your veiwers give input on it before making any significant changes. GL you do great work. :)