Hey all, hope you enjoyed this breakdown of the different gyms I visited in Japan! A quick reminder to check out Nature climbing and use my code "EMIL20" for 20% off hangboards, holds and clothes. Wonderful people working there trying to make the industry a better place, so supporting them means supporting a great brand. natureclimbing.com
You should make a video with Magnus, Testing your Arm Strength through making various insane Only-Campus Routes for eachother. Who has better Campus Ability? Video Content?
@EmilAbrahamsson If you ever come to Montreal let me know. I'd be more than willing to host and feed you and Cordi for however long in our small home near a huge lake (just outside Montreal itself). We have like 20 gyms in the area and the one I go to goes up to V13 (probs V8/9 at Ogikubo lol). The holds selection, route styles variety and the setters are amazing, with puzzles on V2 slabs, V5 lachés and so on. Plus, you' could arrange a video with Yves Gravelle, which would make for some nice content. Glad to see you seem to enjoy the journey (failing and learning) at least as much as the result (since you sent V15 it looks like you achieved enough to be satisfied with your climbing abilities). Cheers mate!
Tokyo climber here, I've climbed in all the same gyms! A few points about the gyms you went to: •it's interesting that your video started in Noborock because it's where most people actually start climbing! It definitely has a reputation for being a soft and casual gym. I've heard other gym staff and owners openly laugh at it 😅 •Akipump actually had a competition shortly before you were there, and you were in the finals area. That yellow overhang problem was set for climbers like Ai Mori or Sorato Anraku (who both podiumed). •Ogipump is definitely set with microbeta and deliberate movement in mind - the head routesetter is the coach of Japanese climbers like Miho Nonaka and the Narasaki brothers. There's plenty of amazing gyms here, I'm glad you had a good time!
@@oisinweitzman5410 for about 5 years on and off, haven't climbed much in the past 3-4 for months since I had a summer semester and was saving up for my semester here in Tokyo. I went to B-Pump Ogikubo and climbed around 4 Kyu - 5 Kyu, but I reckon in a couple sessions I should be working more on 3 Kyu - 2 Kyu.
@@Sh4dowVLCDaw nice! Well if you want to climb as conveniently and cheaply as possible, I'd reccomend a membership with Noborock bc it's so cheap and they have a (small) gym in Ikebukuro. The membership allows you to use all their other gyms tho. A step up from that would be Rocky Shinjuku, or Underground up north from you. Try the gyms out and see which one you like before deciding where to get your membership 😊 I'll be in Akipan after work next Wednesday too if you want to hang out!
The best way that I can describe the difficulty in Japan and Bpump is that the sets demand perfection. If something is graded v3 it requires perfect technique and the physicality of a v3 climb. The issue is most v3 climbers aren’t gonna have perfect technique so physically it feels a lot harder.
I'm a route setter in the UK and personally I kinda agree with that ethos but for the sake of the commercial world, the grades are softer. That's why people get humbled when they go outside. The grades given to boulders outside are the physical grade when climbed "perfectly" With that said, I think the most important aspect really is to have a smooth progression across the grades in a gym
Tbh, that's technically how grades should be. They should lean towards the physical requirements rather than the technique ones because then you'd have v2 climbers climbing a v6 off of technique alone. That said, technique should be introduced, not thrown at you. Movement made a series about something similar for beginner climbers where as the grades go up, you start to incorporate more holds, more techniques, and mixes of the two. It's healthy and still promotes progression which is the goal of grades.
@@flowyriv I agree. Outdoor grading is based on consensus with regard to perfect beta, this is why rotues like bibliographie get downgraded over time. Essentially pure physicality tends to be the only different factor on outdoor grades past like v7-8 from my observations.
@@Aaron-xq6hv The attitude towards your hobby in japan is much different, generally people try a lot of new stuff socially like most people but when they find something they love they drill it and focus on improvement. You will see climbers well into their 40s and 50s in japanese gyms, climbing hard stuff to boot while torturing their poor tendonitis wrecked forearms. Is this always healthy? No, but they do climb super fucking well.
TL;DR: beginners pay the bills so we want them to have a good time. We also want them to improve, but for them to improve we have to guide them through thoughtful and well-designed route setting. Just making low grades hard does not make beginners improve, it makes already talented people feel good about themselves and less naturally talented people feel frustrated and give up. Long Version: The beauty of climbing in general is that it has that high difficulty ceiling Emil talks about, so ideally gyms will reflect that by having problems at the high end of difficulty. But climbing also has a very low skill floor, which is what makes it popular for casual climbers and first-timers. A low skill floor and high skill ceiling is a very good thing! So the platonic ideal version of a gym would have both accessible climbs at the lower end and impossible climbs for pros to strive for, and everything in between. However, there are several things to consider: 1) The absolute beginner's experience will be defined by their enjoyment, feeling of accomplishment, and the satisfaction that comes from overcoming hard tasks. However, I've witnessed first hand many beginners leave their first session at a "serious gym" having experienced only frustration, disappointment, and even anger. Sure, you could write that off as just a bruised ego, but that's not the point. The point is they're a potential client for the gym that's now never coming back. Although I have seen serious gyms pivot later on and include more low grade climbs that aren't sand bagged, which is because... 2) A business has to cater to the market and audience it has in front of it, which is mostly beginners and casual climbers. We also want the beginners to improve and eventually become intermediate and advanced climbers. But beginners will still always outnumber high level climbers so the trick is to make them feel welcome and engaged without alienating the high level climbers. The high level climbers generally won't be overly bothered by grading at the lower end as long as the hard climbs are available, but the casual/beginner audience benefits greatly from a grading system that feels fair and accurate. This is because... 3) The point of a grading system is to ROUGHLY estimate a problem's difficulty, but doesn't need to be perfectly accurate. However, the very best gyms and route setters know how to make use of their low grades to guide beginner and intermediate climbers as a sort of lesson. For example a really well set problem can teach someone how to position their center of mass to grip vertically oriented holds. But at those grades the lessons have to be selected carefully and not overloaded. Consider the difficulty of any given problem split into these categories: - technical expertise (precise footwork, a tricky heel hook, flagging, etc) - physical preparedness (strength, flexibility, mobility, etc) - grip strength (separate from physical preparedness since it's discipline specific) - height/fear Every climb in a v0-v4 range should select one or two of these categories to be difficult while the rest are less difficult so that the climber can improve on that specific thing. This is the lesson the problem is designed to teach. It's not an effective teaching method to try to force beginners to improve at all four at once every time. Ex.: If a V2 is difficult in all four ways, then a beginner won't be able to learn anything from that route because there are too many obstacles to overcome. If a V2 is difficult in technical expertise but moderate in the other three, then it's perfect for teaching beginners some technical concepts.
You took the words out of my mouth. Exactly this. The grades, while subjective, should also be accurate to a degree without sandbagging that does nothing to improve anyone trying to learn and get into the hobby/lifestyle. Similarly sandbagged nonsense is getting popular here in malaysia and the amount of unnecessary injuries from beginners are ridiculous cos of this - and this is a major point that you missed - making lower graded routes unnecessarily hard will guarantee injuries, some serious enough that will forever affect a person, forget climbing, trying walking or holding. My beef with a lot of gyms that sandbags like these Japanese ones, is that it is actively gatekeepers and stopping newbies by totally demotivating them and not allowing them to have a progression that is more organic. If a v2 is suddenly feeling like a v6, how on earth is anyone from a v1 progressing ever going to...well...progress 😅
Also one last point to add, more experiened climbers are very happy to just project 1-3 climbs at a gym, whereas beginners need a larger number of climbs because they do not yet have the mindset or endurance to attempt the same climb 20 times in a session
You said more of substance than Emil did in this entire video and your comment is more valuable than the video itself. He was scared to criticize anything. He said nothing of real substance directly, you clarified his points much better and more clearly. All I got from his video is that Japanese gyms grade horribly and very inconsistently resulting in a V15 climber struggling on what they called a V2. They either need to clarify they’re using a different grade from the Vermin grade, or make their grades more accurate, because most people can accept 1-2 grades lower than outside, while 12 grades off is just fucking insane and just ruins the point of a grading system. If I’m just showing up and warming up, jump on a V1 and get a pulley injury because someone convinced themselves a mono pocket dyno is a V1 move, that’s a problem, partially with my route reading ability, but mostly of bad grading. The biggest problem is any time someone actually tries to criticize grades and find a better option, they’re covered with all the shit excuses to avoid the topic - “it’s subjective” “you don’t know what an actual V6 is” “the setters know better” “your gym grades soft” etc while no one actually discusses how to improve grades accuracy and thus meaningfulness. I also think grades mean less and less as they get higher, the difference between a V8, V9 and V10 in the gym is usually just how long it will take if you’re at that level, while the sub V6 range is massively different, and indicates skill requirement much more. V4-V6 is the difference between a flash and well out of range, while V8 to 10 is the difference of time and effort required for routes within your skill level
Tomoa said , i think on his video with Magnus, that Japanese climbers aren't that strong, but they focus on great technique. I think that v2 slab shows it 100%
it looked like a dyno that he didn't read as a dyno, but I know I've got my ass kicked in a different gym myself where the national junior team of my country trains which grades much harder so who am I to know lol
@@iiiiii7516 yea they are crazy strong for sure, but there's a shit ton of western climbers obsessing with strength training, which doesn't always translate into climbing harder
@@dolandarke1175 Well I didn't deny western climbers are strong; that's where technic makes the difference. I'm just saying Japanese are both strong and technical.
I‘ve trained for three weeks in Japan and as an slightly advanced climber I can say I‘ve learned so much. My thoughts: the gyms usually aren’t as high as in Europe, so the route setting is very different. I felt like every move a more about body positioning and puzzling, even in the easier grades. And in some smaller gyms, I felt like you must learn how properly place your feets ^^. Absolutely enjoyed my time and it seems to be, that you also had a great time :)
such a dope vid and stoked you got to try out all these gyms there! i've been going to ogikubo every year when i visit japan from about 2014 or so. i remember i once saw jakob schubert and the rest of the austrian team there training once, and jakob fell off one of the white tape routes. and i was like, yup, this gym is haaaaaard.
That Tor moment surprised us, to say the least. We've got a few more products to test in the next months, our representatives will be in touch :D Thanks for all the love Emil, it's always such a joy and ease to be working with you!
Dude this is the best video on depicting how hard Japan sets is! I moved to Japan from Canada and holy crap, I was seriously humbled. The hardest I've done is a 2kyuu (super struggle) and currently am comfortable on 3kyuu. I've almost gotten a 1kyuu under my belt (pun intended) and shodan is just impossible. I'll have to send this video to people that don't understand how hard it really is
Epic video! 100% agree with everything, you literally said the same thing as Hayato in my interview, the fact that so many gyms have such a variety of moves early on is key for the average climber being strong and the comment on the ceiling being high is so spot on it almost seems like you read my mind. I always feel like I'm just above average so if I move to a harder gym I can become stronger since there is more "space", almost like a goldfish in a bigger tank.
Hej Emil, I just wanted so say thank you so much for all these amazing videos. Easily my favorite climbing channel, you're always positive and kind, have great videography and obviously climb hard af! Also love your outdoor projecting stuff, even though it seems to get a bit less attention, but I really dont understand why. Again, just a big, big thank you! :)
i mean its pretty much agreed upon that most gyms with v-grading have quite soft grades so progression is more accessable for average climbers. Is that also lying about grades then? What about crags like Fontainebleau where the older routes are stiff as hell and the footholds are glass versus some newer outdoor crags that have softer grades, which one is lying then? What i want to point out here is that grading in climbing is never objective so it can vary alot from place to place, B-Pump might be the strongest outlier here but it doesnt mean they are less legitimate grades than something i made up after first ascending a route or what some setter in Europe or the US puts on the grade tag of their newly set one.
@jonnyscheibenhauer4059 definitely agree about most gyms being softer than outdoors and that being a problem but I just got back from trying bpump and some other gyms in japan and their grades are harder than outdoors. I guess good for getting strong but not good for standardization.
This is a really interesting convo. But, let me interject something. If we are now an Olympic Sport, shouldn’t there be some sort of standard. If not we are no better than break dancing. Please watch the video with Magnus and Toby on comp problems. Magnus thinks he’s climbing v11 and the route setter says no it’s a v8. The look on Magnus’ face is priceless. There is obviously a problem across our sport. I climb in the Gunks so I’m well aware of what sandbagged is and is not. There will never be uniformity, but for the sake of sport as in professional sports, there needs to be an International standard by a governing body where venues follows rules set forth by that body. Or else we are a fugazi sport. Some countries will know how to train and others will fall behind…. Anyway my thoughts…
In the last part, you say, that they have a lot of dynamic movements even in the lower grades. My home gym in Germany has this as well! It's so nice to see and although I think you would not find hard enough boulders in that gym, I love the route setting there :) Sometimes I'm even annoyed because I'm scared af of dynamic movements (especially to the side), but when I think about it, those coordination boulders can be quite fun.
I agree that hard setting is better. My local gym is in the UK. I've noticed in the last month that they have upped all grades. Perhaps due to the outcome of the Olympics :D So the "color" that was previously v5 difficulty is now v6. The gym grades remained the same (orange -> blue -> red, etc.), but the difficulty of the boulders increased by a whole grade. For me this had a profoundly positive impact. I am so hyped to climb and crush the boulders so that I can climb the same "color" I used to climb, even though it is now a grade harder!
Both the gyms I went to you also went to, I was in Japan during the same time you were for university graduation trip. B pump okigubo & base camp shinjuku! It’s cool seeing the same exact setting from when I was there, sad I didn’t run into you
I just came back from Japan and had a similar experience with Noborock lol. I could do several shodan there (V7?), then went to B-pump Ogikubo and only got a single 4-kyuu (V2-3) lmao. B-pump Tokyo I got a few 3-kyuu.
haha same, Ogikubo, I could get to V3 fairly okay but the next grade jump was rough. B-pump tokyo - I think because they had more newbies & casual climbers, could get to the V5 range (day sessions). I think my main issue with Ogikubo was either its doable and easy or too hard to project (within a day). Found Rocky Shinjuku abit nicer in terms of progression between the grades.
Tokyo climber here and love your videos! You can also find many local yet fun (and hard grading) gyms aside from the chain ones you've shown us here. Would love to see a video exploring those if there's a chance!! :)
I never visited a climbing gym cause there are not that much climbing gym's in my country Pakistan but I really want to climb in climbing gym's. BTW love you Emil abrahamsson ❤
Great video and I strongly agree with the sentiment about hard climbs! Vauxwall in London (where I often climb) has a nice approach. Every few months they get some really good climbers down (eg Jim Pope has done it several times) to set a special "project set" of V8-Vhard climbs that say up for several months. The standard blocs rotate every six weeks but the project ones stay up for longer. It's a good way to give the hard core something to get their teeth into without scaring away the more casual customers. (The other thing Vauxwall does that I really like is they have a handful of wooden permanent climbs that are never reset and that serve as grade benchmarks. Partly to ensure the setting doesn't go soft over time!)
Honestly learn the French grading, it’s much better overall imo. The decimal points really help highlight small difficulty progressions compared to V scale. V6 to V7 7a/7a+ and V8 is 7b to 7b+ because that’s a really clear breakpoint and second plateau serious climbers usually hit. For example I did my first V7 before my first V6 because I found one that fit my style. Then I got a V8. Then another and more for over a year. I was consistently climbing almost every v8 in my gym within a few tries of not a flash, before getting my first V9. But by the French system, I’d improved by about 2 grades in that time, which is why it was so hard to push to v9 after skipping V6 for V7. In the end grades aren’t subjective, they’re arbitrary. The guy doing 60% body weight one finger pull-ups might find it easy to do a muscle up, but it’s simply not easy, it’s easy for them. Find stuff you enjoy climbing and force yourself on stuff you don’t enjoy as much for the experience- in the end you want volume, just climb a lot and you’ll find yourself progressing.
I'd consider Ogikubo my main gym, and even though I've kind of diassociated from all the tourists / people filming shit, I think most people there know the gym is hard. I mean I've seen several members of the Japanese team get shut down by something as "easy" as white tapes on occasion.
I totally agree that it's a good idea to introduce dynos and other technical stuff at easier levels. You can make a harder beginner route by just requiring more technique and body awareness, without increasing the strength and fitness level. If a beginner can speed through the first half of the levels in a gym in a few weeks, I think it can become boring quite fast, because there is no variety. And then there is the frustration they feel when they suddenly hit the first harder grade and it seems like an impossible barrier.
Like everywhere else, Japanese grades vary like crazy. Noborock and Rocky are known for being quite soft. BPump is known for being insane (but mostly the Ogikubo location, Tokyo not so much). Urban Base is my favourite. I learn something new every time I climb there, even if I can't really start anything harder than a 4kyuu.
@@EmilAbrahamsson I think it's more of a problem for thicc bois with more muscle. Muscle is a calorie furnace. All the thin folks in the gym are wearing jackets.
Indoor grading is such a interesting topic. What is/are the purpose(s) of grades ? I do not know. Is it to allow climbers to track their progression ? Is it to manage climbers egos (up or down) ? Is it to compare it to other climbs (in the world indoor and/or outdoor or only in your gym) ? Is it to prevent accidents or injuries ? Is it to save the climber some time on route reading ? I think it depends a lot on what or for whom is the gym's intended for. Are you running a commercial gym or a club/associative gym ? Do you want the level to be high ? Do you aim it to be as open as possible to a large public ? Are the climbers in your gym passionnate climbers who want to improve as much as possible ? Casual climbers who climb mostly for fun ? Fitness climbers who just want to stay in good enough physical shape ? Do you see the gym as a tool to prepare climbers for outdoor climbs ? Depending on all of this the grading in the gym will look very different. At my club we have many types of climbers but we do not need to worry much about their egos. They are club members not customers who might or might not come back depending on how boosted or crushed their ego was during a session. For routes we give grades, that we hope to be somewhat close to outdoor route grades, because we encourage members to climb outdoor and organise outdoor trips. The difficulty of route reading outdoor compared to indoor is still very hard to work around though. For boulders we have tags that roughly gives an idea of how difficult a climb is compared to other climbs in the gym. No Font grade or V grade. In Japan I went to a gym where they had color code that was different for each wall.
loved the vid, i tihnk a format withtout background music like mike boyd or some magnus videos would work really nicely with this type of video though!
“…you enjoyed me getting smacked.” 😂😂😂😂😂😂 what a nice way to put it, Emil! thank you for yet another wonderful video, I really appreciate how philosophic you are when it comes to “failing” and how actually playful you are when it comes to challenges
Damn, you have really nice callouses on your big toes Emil :D As a fellow MadRock Drone enjoyer since the last year or so, I can say my big toes have got a fair bit more lumpy too. I have been climbing for 2 years now and I think mine could definitely get on your level at some point. Keep up the awesome vids!
Grades in Japan are weird. B-Pump gyms are definitely some of the hardest in the country. But then other in Tokyo are so soft that they feel like they have a 1-2 grade discrepancy. Elsewhere in Japan grades are harder, especially in more hardcore, old-school outdoor-focused grades. I've also climbed in French gyms, which often don't have grades per se, but usually uses colors. That being said the climbs tend to be very tricky/technical, so I wouldn't be surprised if harder grades could give even excellent climbers trouble (especially the slabs).
@@champiggyfrm_pig5271it's because at some point it doesn't make sense to grade problems, competition climbers want boulders which ressemble comp boulder in style and difficulty. Outdoor climbers get to know their level by.... Climbing outdoor. For everyone else, colors are much more simpler to understand.
What i learned a couple of years ago: ignore the grade and climb what looks good. Try out new stuff and ignore the grading. It is not important, what you can climb, if you are in a gym. If you are ready to go outside, you can look into grades to keep you safe, but most of the times: if you are careful and you know your body and climbing style, you will figure it out, what you are able to climb :) In one of my climbing gyms the new climbs are graded from the community. they have a range and a lot of people can add their suggestion on the climb as well. after a while, the route get's a rating :) We have currently a couple of routes, which have a big range, because of improper technique of climbers, which is kind of interesting.
I can't put a finger on it, but that music during the first yellow boulder reminded me so much of some old game... Diddy Kong Racing? Something like that... Oh, and the video was interesting haha
Can confirm the grades vary wildly gym to gym in Tokyo (I live here), and grade for grade problems are generally harder compared to the US from my limited experience. Noborock Shibuya (was there this weekend) is very very soft compared to other gyms and 3-4 grades off B-Pump Ogikubo. My local gym, Spider, is about 2 grades off B-Pump. Other places like BPump Akiba or D-Bouldering tend to be more in line with Ogikubo. Each gym has its own quirks vis a vis the width of the grades. In Noborock I feel like the jump between 1 Kyuu and 1 Dan is fairly large. I was flashing 1 Kyuu and I think 1 Dan would take me 1 or 2 sessions to complete unless I’m kinda lucky. Currently projecting 4 Kyuu in Ogikubo for context.
@@nonoachim It's the sky blue holds. You can see it better at 0:24. It was funny because they had a 六段 (6D) tag on it, when the gym normally only goes up to 四段 (4D).
This is why I like Kaya, community grading a route or boulder problem is so much better. For example my gym has a routesetter who regularly climbs v11 in gym and has done a few v10-12 outdoors. He has set some very very nasty v2-3s in our gym and people on Kaya are constantly upping them a grade or two regardless of the tag he sets in gym.
You should visit gyms in Slovenia sometime, and find out how they are so good at climbing. Slovenia puts forward many highly skilled athletes in world cups (Janja, Mia, Vita, Anze, Jennifer) despite only having a population of just over 2 million. Considering Japan has a population of 125 million, I'd argue that Slovenia is even better than Japan at creating freakishly strong climbers
not only were grades extremely humbling, when i went to BPump Ogikubo there were like middle school kids doing the craziest routes when i was struggling on v2’s 😭
I recently went to japan and yeah bpump felt about 2 grades off for my level (usually climbing most things in the v6-v7 range in the us) and then other gyms in japan were maybe one grade off the US. This tracks since they have 2 or 3 grades before v0 so basically just offset their grading by 2 or 3 grades as a result it seems.
I didn't climb everywhere in Asia, but currently living in Indonesia, what I've found is the route setters are often shorter than in Europe. Also the gym are less tall. There is more boxy starts too and more technical movements due to the size of the route setters. So we have to move our body sideways to get the holds and for me it add a lot of difficulty to the routes. Often the budget put on the climbing walls is a lot lower too. So there is more old style holds too.
I love how you appreciate the challenge of fighting with a set that is not designed for a tall Swedish climber but for peeps that are 15-20cm smaller on average (just mu guess...). The set in my gym is also often a bit favourable for smaller climbers, and yes, that requires a nice and flexible hip if your 1:85ish like me. Concerning the grades: I wonder if y'all think the grades in european gyms really do compare to outdoor grades? My feeling is that the gyms are graded 1-2 grades softer than outdoors, at least at my level (around 6b/6c). That red "6a" with the slopy crimps looks more like what I know from Murgtal or Avalonia in that grade than what is called 6a on a kilterboard or an european gym.
You should check out flowstone in Redlands, their setting is ridiculous. Super similar to the 2nd b-pump gym you went to. World class rout setting for sure.
Omg Nobo, a place I’ve actually climbed at! I felt the grades matched pretty well to my local gym in Sweden (but I climb super low grades, so maybe not relevant) However I think they set more creatively and sketchy than my home gym 😊
I worked and climbed at a gym in the 90's. Trad owner, outdoor climbers setting and grading. It was stiff. The beauty was most places you'd climb afterwards seemed so soft (looking at you Red Rocks).😅 Plus it was fun to listen to people whine 'that's not 5.11. That's too hard for 5.11'. 😅😅
if you are in Japan, you should try the "vertical limit burst" and "crazy cliffhanger" from sasuke/ninja warrior. With your finger strength, I guess you would clear it.
I'm pretty sure the white one in the corner (5:52) would have been a V1 at my local gym. Maybe on an angled wall, which I couldn't tell in the video, would be a V2.
To be honest I am kind of tired of this grading fight. Most of my local gym removed the grades and just tell you which climbs are easier and which ones are harder. I kinda dig it
Great video Emil. Did you think that you being taller than most japanese made a difference in your experience of the grades and settings ? Thanks and cheers from Fontainebleau !
I’ve climbed in Japanese and Korean gyms, and I would say Korea is almost just as stiff as Japanese gyms. I climb V7 outdoors in the US and over there, I couldn’t get any of the V6-V7 sets even after going back multiple times to project them. The outdoor problems over there felt stiff as well, but not nearly as impossible feeling. The best I ever sent was V6.
For me. Gyms is training. Climbing is outside, on rock and mountains. Nature. The feel is just not the same at all. Gyms will never feel the same. Also, would love if the climbing world came together and just picked the best grading system. The "French" version. 7a-c. 8a-c and so on.
From the video it seems, that the positions favor a bit smaller climbers, which sounds logical in Japan. So somebody as tall as Emil would struggle more in such tight boxes. The V2 slab and other climbs showed exactly that, as I see it. Good effort though!
There are some gyms in Berlin that do this as well. Some are inflated but others can make a 6b feel like a 7b in other gyms. Outside I noticed that even a 6c can be really difficult, whereas in gyms I can pretty much flash all of them. Don't care about ego, just nice climbs. Nobody will remember your grades anyway unless you're a top tier climber..
Hey all, hope you enjoyed this breakdown of the different gyms I visited in Japan!
A quick reminder to check out Nature climbing and use my code "EMIL20" for 20% off hangboards, holds and clothes. Wonderful people working there trying to make the industry a better place, so supporting them means supporting a great brand.
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You should make a video with Magnus, Testing your Arm Strength through making various insane Only-Campus Routes for eachother. Who has better Campus Ability? Video Content?
@@EmilAbrahamsson my wife left me Emil
@EmilAbrahamsson
If you ever come to Montreal let me know. I'd be more than willing to host and feed you and Cordi for however long in our small home near a huge lake (just outside Montreal itself).
We have like 20 gyms in the area and the one I go to goes up to V13 (probs V8/9 at Ogikubo lol).
The holds selection, route styles variety and the setters are amazing, with puzzles on V2 slabs, V5 lachés and so on.
Plus, you' could arrange a video with Yves Gravelle, which would make for some nice content.
Glad to see you seem to enjoy the journey (failing and learning) at least as much as the result (since you sent V15 it looks like you achieved enough to be satisfied with your climbing abilities).
Cheers mate!
really want one of those portable hangboards but €28 shipping to Aus hurts 😭
I´d love to have some of the rails but I can´t spend 80€ per hold :(
Tokyo climber here, I've climbed in all the same gyms! A few points about the gyms you went to:
•it's interesting that your video started in Noborock because it's where most people actually start climbing! It definitely has a reputation for being a soft and casual gym. I've heard other gym staff and owners openly laugh at it 😅
•Akipump actually had a competition shortly before you were there, and you were in the finals area. That yellow overhang problem was set for climbers like Ai Mori or Sorato Anraku (who both podiumed).
•Ogipump is definitely set with microbeta and deliberate movement in mind - the head routesetter is the coach of Japanese climbers like Miho Nonaka and the Narasaki brothers.
There's plenty of amazing gyms here, I'm glad you had a good time!
I wish more gyms in USA set harder. I sandbag everything on my homewall.
Hey, just moved in Ikebukuro, where would recommend me to get a membership?
@@Sh4dowVLCDwelcome to Tokyo! How long have you been climbing for?
@@oisinweitzman5410 for about 5 years on and off, haven't climbed much in the past 3-4 for months since I had a summer semester and was saving up for my semester here in Tokyo. I went to B-Pump Ogikubo and climbed around 4 Kyu - 5 Kyu, but I reckon in a couple sessions I should be working more on 3 Kyu - 2 Kyu.
@@Sh4dowVLCDaw nice! Well if you want to climb as conveniently and cheaply as possible, I'd reccomend a membership with Noborock bc it's so cheap and they have a (small) gym in Ikebukuro. The membership allows you to use all their other gyms tho.
A step up from that would be Rocky Shinjuku, or Underground up north from you. Try the gyms out and see which one you like before deciding where to get your membership 😊
I'll be in Akipan after work next Wednesday too if you want to hang out!
The best way that I can describe the difficulty in Japan and Bpump is that the sets demand perfection. If something is graded v3 it requires perfect technique and the physicality of a v3 climb. The issue is most v3 climbers aren’t gonna have perfect technique so physically it feels a lot harder.
I'm a route setter in the UK and personally I kinda agree with that ethos but for the sake of the commercial world, the grades are softer. That's why people get humbled when they go outside. The grades given to boulders outside are the physical grade when climbed "perfectly"
With that said, I think the most important aspect really is to have a smooth progression across the grades in a gym
Tbh, that's technically how grades should be. They should lean towards the physical requirements rather than the technique ones because then you'd have v2 climbers climbing a v6 off of technique alone. That said, technique should be introduced, not thrown at you. Movement made a series about something similar for beginner climbers where as the grades go up, you start to incorporate more holds, more techniques, and mixes of the two. It's healthy and still promotes progression which is the goal of grades.
@@supernoodles908 Considering the first Pump was opened in in 1993 I would say commercially they're doing pretty well.
@@flowyriv I agree. Outdoor grading is based on consensus with regard to perfect beta, this is why rotues like bibliographie get downgraded over time. Essentially pure physicality tends to be the only different factor on outdoor grades past like v7-8 from my observations.
@@Aaron-xq6hv The attitude towards your hobby in japan is much different, generally people try a lot of new stuff socially like most people but when they find something they love they drill it and focus on improvement. You will see climbers well into their 40s and 50s in japanese gyms, climbing hard stuff to boot while torturing their poor tendonitis wrecked forearms. Is this always healthy? No, but they do climb super fucking well.
Emil finally solved the mystery of where all those "V2 in my gym" guys climb.
TL;DR: beginners pay the bills so we want them to have a good time. We also want them to improve, but for them to improve we have to guide them through thoughtful and well-designed route setting. Just making low grades hard does not make beginners improve, it makes already talented people feel good about themselves and less naturally talented people feel frustrated and give up.
Long Version:
The beauty of climbing in general is that it has that high difficulty ceiling Emil talks about, so ideally gyms will reflect that by having problems at the high end of difficulty. But climbing also has a very low skill floor, which is what makes it popular for casual climbers and first-timers. A low skill floor and high skill ceiling is a very good thing! So the platonic ideal version of a gym would have both accessible climbs at the lower end and impossible climbs for pros to strive for, and everything in between. However, there are several things to consider:
1) The absolute beginner's experience will be defined by their enjoyment, feeling of accomplishment, and the satisfaction that comes from overcoming hard tasks. However, I've witnessed first hand many beginners leave their first session at a "serious gym" having experienced only frustration, disappointment, and even anger. Sure, you could write that off as just a bruised ego, but that's not the point. The point is they're a potential client for the gym that's now never coming back. Although I have seen serious gyms pivot later on and include more low grade climbs that aren't sand bagged, which is because...
2) A business has to cater to the market and audience it has in front of it, which is mostly beginners and casual climbers. We also want the beginners to improve and eventually become intermediate and advanced climbers. But beginners will still always outnumber high level climbers so the trick is to make them feel welcome and engaged without alienating the high level climbers. The high level climbers generally won't be overly bothered by grading at the lower end as long as the hard climbs are available, but the casual/beginner audience benefits greatly from a grading system that feels fair and accurate. This is because...
3) The point of a grading system is to ROUGHLY estimate a problem's difficulty, but doesn't need to be perfectly accurate. However, the very best gyms and route setters know how to make use of their low grades to guide beginner and intermediate climbers as a sort of lesson. For example a really well set problem can teach someone how to position their center of mass to grip vertically oriented holds. But at those grades the lessons have to be selected carefully and not overloaded. Consider the difficulty of any given problem split into these categories:
- technical expertise (precise footwork, a tricky heel hook, flagging, etc)
- physical preparedness (strength, flexibility, mobility, etc)
- grip strength (separate from physical preparedness since it's discipline specific)
- height/fear
Every climb in a v0-v4 range should select one or two of these categories to be difficult while the rest are less difficult so that the climber can improve on that specific thing. This is the lesson the problem is designed to teach. It's not an effective teaching method to try to force beginners to improve at all four at once every time. Ex.: If a V2 is difficult in all four ways, then a beginner won't be able to learn anything from that route because there are too many obstacles to overcome. If a V2 is difficult in technical expertise but moderate in the other three, then it's perfect for teaching beginners some technical concepts.
Wonderfully and persuasively written, thank you
I couldn't agree more, soooo clear!
You took the words out of my mouth. Exactly this. The grades, while subjective, should also be accurate to a degree without sandbagging that does nothing to improve anyone trying to learn and get into the hobby/lifestyle. Similarly sandbagged nonsense is getting popular here in malaysia and the amount of unnecessary injuries from beginners are ridiculous cos of this - and this is a major point that you missed - making lower graded routes unnecessarily hard will guarantee injuries, some serious enough that will forever affect a person, forget climbing, trying walking or holding. My beef with a lot of gyms that sandbags like these Japanese ones, is that it is actively gatekeepers and stopping newbies by totally demotivating them and not allowing them to have a progression that is more organic. If a v2 is suddenly feeling like a v6, how on earth is anyone from a v1 progressing ever going to...well...progress 😅
Also one last point to add, more experiened climbers are very happy to just project 1-3 climbs at a gym, whereas beginners need a larger number of climbs because they do not yet have the mindset or endurance to attempt the same climb 20 times in a session
You said more of substance than Emil did in this entire video and your comment is more valuable than the video itself. He was scared to criticize anything. He said nothing of real substance directly, you clarified his points much better and more clearly.
All I got from his video is that Japanese gyms grade horribly and very inconsistently resulting in a V15 climber struggling on what they called a V2. They either need to clarify they’re using a different grade from the Vermin grade, or make their grades more accurate, because most people can accept 1-2 grades lower than outside, while 12 grades off is just fucking insane and just ruins the point of a grading system. If I’m just showing up and warming up, jump on a V1 and get a pulley injury because someone convinced themselves a mono pocket dyno is a V1 move, that’s a problem, partially with my route reading ability, but mostly of bad grading.
The biggest problem is any time someone actually tries to criticize grades and find a better option, they’re covered with all the shit excuses to avoid the topic - “it’s subjective” “you don’t know what an actual V6 is” “the setters know better” “your gym grades soft” etc while no one actually discusses how to improve grades accuracy and thus meaningfulness.
I also think grades mean less and less as they get higher, the difference between a V8, V9 and V10 in the gym is usually just how long it will take if you’re at that level, while the sub V6 range is massively different, and indicates skill requirement much more. V4-V6 is the difference between a flash and well out of range, while V8 to 10 is the difference of time and effort required for routes within your skill level
Tomoa said , i think on his video with Magnus, that Japanese climbers aren't that strong, but they focus on great technique. I think that v2 slab shows it 100%
Some Japanese climbers like Yoshiyuki are definitely that strong though.
it looked like a dyno that he didn't read as a dyno, but I know I've got my ass kicked in a different gym myself where the national junior team of my country trains which grades much harder so who am I to know lol
they are also strong though.. Tomoa was just humble
@@iiiiii7516 yea they are crazy strong for sure, but there's a shit ton of western climbers obsessing with strength training, which doesn't always translate into climbing harder
@@dolandarke1175 Well I didn't deny western climbers are strong; that's where technic makes the difference. I'm just saying Japanese are both strong and technical.
When you go back, go to Osaka. There’s a tiny gym called Roca. It is pretty small but the setters climb v12 and V16… great old-school-small-gym vibes
you are so incredibly inspiring, you make rockclimbing look super fun in the best way possible and highlight the lovely bits of the community
18:46 on the right: Magnus never left for Europe after all!
Hey, he's not that old!
hahahah :D
I‘ve trained for three weeks in Japan and as an slightly advanced climber I can say I‘ve learned so much. My thoughts: the gyms usually aren’t as high as in Europe, so the route setting is very different. I felt like every move a more about body positioning and puzzling, even in the easier grades. And in some smaller gyms, I felt like you must learn how properly place your feets ^^.
Absolutely enjoyed my time and it seems to be, that you also had a great time :)
A Magnus and THEN an Emil video?? Hell yeah
such a dope vid and stoked you got to try out all these gyms there! i've been going to ogikubo every year when i visit japan from about 2014 or so. i remember i once saw jakob schubert and the rest of the austrian team there training once, and jakob fell off one of the white tape routes. and i was like, yup, this gym is haaaaaard.
Banger vid then even better ad integration 🔥 so clean
That Tor moment surprised us, to say the least. We've got a few more products to test in the next months, our representatives will be in touch :D
Thanks for all the love Emil, it's always such a joy and ease to be working with you!
Oooh, looking forward to testing the new stuff out!
Great video!! Great to see you trying hard!!!
i can understand your perspective, it's fun to feel like you're new again and you can sort of just explore what you're capable of.
Dude this is the best video on depicting how hard Japan sets is! I moved to Japan from Canada and holy crap, I was seriously humbled. The hardest I've done is a 2kyuu (super struggle) and currently am comfortable on 3kyuu. I've almost gotten a 1kyuu under my belt (pun intended) and shodan is just impossible. I'll have to send this video to people that don't understand how hard it really is
Epic video! 100% agree with everything, you literally said the same thing as Hayato in my interview, the fact that so many gyms have such a variety of moves early on is key for the average climber being strong and the comment on the ceiling being high is so spot on it almost seems like you read my mind.
I always feel like I'm just above average so if I move to a harder gym I can become stronger since there is more "space", almost like a goldfish in a bigger tank.
Really interesting to hear Hayato explain his thoughts! I watched it like 20 minutes after I posted this one
Hej Emil, I just wanted so say thank you so much for all these amazing videos. Easily my favorite climbing channel, you're always positive and kind, have great videography and obviously climb hard af! Also love your outdoor projecting stuff, even though it seems to get a bit less attention, but I really dont understand why. Again, just a big, big thank you! :)
Thanks for the kind words, I really appreciate it and the support!
At this point it's not even humbling, it's just straight up lying on grades! 😅
Yeah, and if grades exist for standardization... It doesn't make sense to make a super hard V2. It's just not V2
i mean its pretty much agreed upon that most gyms with v-grading have quite soft grades so progression is more accessable for average climbers. Is that also lying about grades then? What about crags like Fontainebleau where the older routes are stiff as hell and the footholds are glass versus some newer outdoor crags that have softer grades, which one is lying then?
What i want to point out here is that grading in climbing is never objective so it can vary alot from place to place, B-Pump might be the strongest outlier here but it doesnt mean they are less legitimate grades than something i made up after first ascending a route or what some setter in Europe or the US puts on the grade tag of their newly set one.
@jonnyscheibenhauer4059 definitely agree about most gyms being softer than outdoors and that being a problem but I just got back from trying bpump and some other gyms in japan and their grades are harder than outdoors. I guess good for getting strong but not good for standardization.
Exactly
This is a really interesting convo. But, let me interject something. If we are now an Olympic Sport, shouldn’t there be some sort of standard. If not we are no better than break dancing. Please watch the video with Magnus and Toby on comp problems. Magnus thinks he’s climbing v11 and the route setter says no it’s a v8. The look on Magnus’ face is priceless. There is obviously a problem across our sport. I climb in the Gunks so I’m well aware of what sandbagged is and is not. There will never be uniformity, but for the sake of sport as in professional sports, there needs to be an International standard by a governing body where venues follows rules set forth by that body. Or else we are a fugazi sport. Some countries will know how to train and others will fall behind…. Anyway my thoughts…
In the last part, you say, that they have a lot of dynamic movements even in the lower grades. My home gym in Germany has this as well! It's so nice to see and although I think you would not find hard enough boulders in that gym, I love the route setting there :)
Sometimes I'm even annoyed because I'm scared af of dynamic movements (especially to the side), but when I think about it, those coordination boulders can be quite fun.
I agree that hard setting is better. My local gym is in the UK. I've noticed in the last month that they have upped all grades. Perhaps due to the outcome of the Olympics :D So the "color" that was previously v5 difficulty is now v6. The gym grades remained the same (orange -> blue -> red, etc.), but the difficulty of the boulders increased by a whole grade.
For me this had a profoundly positive impact. I am so hyped to climb and crush the boulders so that I can climb the same "color" I used to climb, even though it is now a grade harder!
The red V2 from ogikuba has no business consisting of only credit card crimps at that level 😅
Both the gyms I went to you also went to, I was in Japan during the same time you were for university graduation trip. B pump okigubo & base camp shinjuku! It’s cool seeing the same exact setting from when I was there, sad I didn’t run into you
I just came back from Japan and had a similar experience with Noborock lol.
I could do several shodan there (V7?), then went to B-pump Ogikubo and only got a single 4-kyuu (V2-3) lmao.
B-pump Tokyo I got a few 3-kyuu.
haha same, Ogikubo, I could get to V3 fairly okay but the next grade jump was rough. B-pump tokyo - I think because they had more newbies & casual climbers, could get to the V5 range (day sessions). I think my main issue with Ogikubo was either its doable and easy or too hard to project (within a day). Found Rocky Shinjuku abit nicer in terms of progression between the grades.
The goat dropped again
Tokyo climber here and love your videos! You can also find many local yet fun (and hard grading) gyms aside from the chain ones you've shown us here. Would love to see a video exploring those if there's a chance!! :)
So cool to have so many options around you, here in Montana USA there's like 4 gyms in a 200 mile radius.
I never visited a climbing gym cause there are not that much climbing gym's in my country Pakistan but I really want to climb in climbing gym's. BTW love you Emil abrahamsson ❤
Such a great background video as follow-up to the Climbing TH-camr Japan Extravaganza. Cheers!
whoever came up with the noborock is creative af 😂
it's noboru (climb) + rock, so essentially climbing rock
I go to Ogikubo regularly. Never makes me bored.
Great video and I strongly agree with the sentiment about hard climbs! Vauxwall in London (where I often climb) has a nice approach. Every few months they get some really good climbers down (eg Jim Pope has done it several times) to set a special "project set" of V8-Vhard climbs that say up for several months. The standard blocs rotate every six weeks but the project ones stay up for longer. It's a good way to give the hard core something to get their teeth into without scaring away the more casual customers.
(The other thing Vauxwall does that I really like is they have a handful of wooden permanent climbs that are never reset and that serve as grade benchmarks. Partly to ensure the setting doesn't go soft over time!)
For someone who is fairly new to climbing, and haven't learned v-grading yet, i highly appreciate that you showed us the french grading as well!
Honestly learn the French grading, it’s much better overall imo. The decimal points really help highlight small difficulty progressions compared to V scale. V6 to V7 7a/7a+ and V8 is 7b to 7b+ because that’s a really clear breakpoint and second plateau serious climbers usually hit. For example I did my first V7 before my first V6 because I found one that fit my style. Then I got a V8. Then another and more for over a year. I was consistently climbing almost every v8 in my gym within a few tries of not a flash, before getting my first V9. But by the French system, I’d improved by about 2 grades in that time, which is why it was so hard to push to v9 after skipping V6 for V7.
In the end grades aren’t subjective, they’re arbitrary. The guy doing 60% body weight one finger pull-ups might find it easy to do a muscle up, but it’s simply not easy, it’s easy for them. Find stuff you enjoy climbing and force yourself on stuff you don’t enjoy as much for the experience- in the end you want volume, just climb a lot and you’ll find yourself progressing.
Good to see a bit of a larger sample size of gyms when asking this question
It must feel pretty good to see someone from another country filming a video "this gym is super tough" and it's just tuesday for you
I'd consider Ogikubo my main gym, and even though I've kind of diassociated from all the tourists / people filming shit, I think most people there know the gym is hard. I mean I've seen several members of the Japanese team get shut down by something as "easy" as white tapes on occasion.
I totally agree that it's a good idea to introduce dynos and other technical stuff at easier levels. You can make a harder beginner route by just requiring more technique and body awareness, without increasing the strength and fitness level. If a beginner can speed through the first half of the levels in a gym in a few weeks, I think it can become boring quite fast, because there is no variety. And then there is the frustration they feel when they suddenly hit the first harder grade and it seems like an impossible barrier.
Like everywhere else, Japanese grades vary like crazy. Noborock and Rocky are known for being quite soft. BPump is known for being insane (but mostly the Ogikubo location, Tokyo not so much). Urban Base is my favourite. I learn something new every time I climb there, even if I can't really start anything harder than a 4kyuu.
I must say Ogikubo is definately in Tokyo, not central tho.
@@nashi_na yes I know it’s also in Tokyo, but the branch in Akihabara is commonly referred to as B-Pump Tokyo.
Wow, nature climbing looks so cool
Real talk dude, if I'm going to try hard at all in the gym, gotta wear black shorts... even in winter, I get so hot and sweaty.
It's a never-ending struggle
@@EmilAbrahamsson I think it's more of a problem for thicc bois with more muscle. Muscle is a calorie furnace. All the thin folks in the gym are wearing jackets.
Indoor grading is such a interesting topic. What is/are the purpose(s) of grades ? I do not know.
Is it to allow climbers to track their progression ?
Is it to manage climbers egos (up or down) ?
Is it to compare it to other climbs (in the world indoor and/or outdoor or only in your gym) ?
Is it to prevent accidents or injuries ?
Is it to save the climber some time on route reading ?
I think it depends a lot on what or for whom is the gym's intended for.
Are you running a commercial gym or a club/associative gym ?
Do you want the level to be high ?
Do you aim it to be as open as possible to a large public ?
Are the climbers in your gym passionnate climbers who want to improve as much as possible ?
Casual climbers who climb mostly for fun ?
Fitness climbers who just want to stay in good enough physical shape ?
Do you see the gym as a tool to prepare climbers for outdoor climbs ?
Depending on all of this the grading in the gym will look very different.
At my club we have many types of climbers but we do not need to worry much about their egos. They are club members not customers who might or might not come back depending on how boosted or crushed their ego was during a session.
For routes we give grades, that we hope to be somewhat close to outdoor route grades, because we encourage members to climb outdoor and organise outdoor trips. The difficulty of route reading outdoor compared to indoor is still very hard to work around though.
For boulders we have tags that roughly gives an idea of how difficult a climb is compared to other climbs in the gym. No Font grade or V grade.
In Japan I went to a gym where they had color code that was different for each wall.
loved the vid, i tihnk a format withtout background music like mike boyd or some magnus videos would work really nicely with this type of video though!
Thank you for this discover!
Actually the most difficult gym in Tokyo is Underground, harder than Ogipump. Many athletes train there, please check one day!
“…you enjoyed me getting smacked.” 😂😂😂😂😂😂 what a nice way to put it, Emil! thank you for yet another wonderful video, I really appreciate how philosophic you are when it comes to “failing” and how actually playful you are when it comes to challenges
Great video. You're great at boulder problems
Damn, you have really nice callouses on your big toes Emil :D As a fellow MadRock Drone enjoyer since the last year or so, I can say my big toes have got a fair bit more lumpy too. I have been climbing for 2 years now and I think mine could definitely get on your level at some point. Keep up the awesome vids!
Grades in Japan are weird. B-Pump gyms are definitely some of the hardest in the country. But then other in Tokyo are so soft that they feel like they have a 1-2 grade discrepancy. Elsewhere in Japan grades are harder, especially in more hardcore, old-school outdoor-focused grades.
I've also climbed in French gyms, which often don't have grades per se, but usually uses colors. That being said the climbs tend to be very tricky/technical, so I wouldn't be surprised if harder grades could give even excellent climbers trouble (especially the slabs).
I've been to a few gyms in France and I've always been confused by the grades as I've never seen them used in gyms themselves, it's always colors
@@champiggyfrm_pig5271same in germany
@@champiggyfrm_pig5271it's because at some point it doesn't make sense to grade problems, competition climbers want boulders which ressemble comp boulder in style and difficulty. Outdoor climbers get to know their level by.... Climbing outdoor.
For everyone else, colors are much more simpler to understand.
What i learned a couple of years ago: ignore the grade and climb what looks good. Try out new stuff and ignore the grading. It is not important, what you can climb, if you are in a gym. If you are ready to go outside, you can look into grades to keep you safe, but most of the times: if you are careful and you know your body and climbing style, you will figure it out, what you are able to climb :)
In one of my climbing gyms the new climbs are graded from the community. they have a range and a lot of people can add their suggestion on the climb as well. after a while, the route get's a rating :)
We have currently a couple of routes, which have a big range, because of improper technique of climbers, which is kind of interesting.
love these videos!
I remember Tomoa’s coach said BPump V is about +2 from other gym. I agree with that.
Goated Video by one of my favourite channels on yt, tnx for making me try harder lol
You should visit Switzerland, here you also can find quite hard boulders ❤
Love your videos
17:57 congrats to the dude who sent
That white v2 in the beginning might be a 1 at my gym!
Nice job Emil! That tree didn't look easy to climb.
I can't put a finger on it, but that music during the first yellow boulder reminded me so much of some old game... Diddy Kong Racing? Something like that... Oh, and the video was interesting haha
Can confirm the grades vary wildly gym to gym in Tokyo (I live here), and grade for grade problems are generally harder compared to the US from my limited experience.
Noborock Shibuya (was there this weekend) is very very soft compared to other gyms and 3-4 grades off B-Pump Ogikubo. My local gym, Spider, is about 2 grades off B-Pump. Other places like BPump Akiba or D-Bouldering tend to be more in line with Ogikubo. Each gym has its own quirks vis a vis the width of the grades. In Noborock I feel like the jump between 1 Kyuu and 1 Dan is fairly large. I was flashing 1 Kyuu and I think 1 Dan would take me 1 or 2 sessions to complete unless I’m kinda lucky.
Currently projecting 4 Kyuu in Ogikubo for context.
I love the japanese grades have anime characters from one piece like chopper at v0-v3 and luffy at v12
25:03 I see that burden replica 👀
Good spot!! So awesome to see in real gyms out there
Which color is the replica?
@@nonoachim It's the sky blue holds. You can see it better at 0:24. It was funny because they had a 六段 (6D) tag on it, when the gym normally only goes up to 四段 (4D).
@@dezyhe Nice catch!
been waiting for this one!! so excited to watch it 🤘
Wehoo! Hope it lives up to the wait
Super cool video! Would love to visit these myself some time and not be able to climb a v0
Great spot in tree for commentary. More of this please👆
This is why I like Kaya, community grading a route or boulder problem is so much better. For example my gym has a routesetter who regularly climbs v11 in gym and has done a few v10-12 outdoors.
He has set some very very nasty v2-3s in our gym and people on Kaya are constantly upping them a grade or two regardless of the tag he sets in gym.
You should visit gyms in Slovenia sometime, and find out how they are so good at climbing. Slovenia puts forward many highly skilled athletes in world cups (Janja, Mia, Vita, Anze, Jennifer) despite only having a population of just over 2 million. Considering Japan has a population of 125 million, I'd argue that Slovenia is even better than Japan at creating freakishly strong climbers
I think it could be fun content for you to visit the gym Magnus did in the video where he visited the worst rated climbing gym in Tokyo
Emil im still wating for you to upload that video of you flashing burden of dreams
algorithm comment because emil deserves every view he gets
not only were grades extremely humbling, when i went to BPump Ogikubo there were like middle school kids doing the craziest routes when i was struggling on v2’s 😭
I recently went to japan and yeah bpump felt about 2 grades off for my level (usually climbing most things in the v6-v7 range in the us) and then other gyms in japan were maybe one grade off the US. This tracks since they have 2 or 3 grades before v0 so basically just offset their grading by 2 or 3 grades as a result it seems.
I didn't climb everywhere in Asia, but currently living in Indonesia, what I've found is the route setters are often shorter than in Europe. Also the gym are less tall. There is more boxy starts too and more technical movements due to the size of the route setters. So we have to move our body sideways to get the holds and for me it add a lot of difficulty to the routes. Often the budget put on the climbing walls is a lot lower too. So there is more old style holds too.
I love how you appreciate the challenge of fighting with a set that is not designed for a tall Swedish climber but for peeps that are 15-20cm smaller on average (just mu guess...). The set in my gym is also often a bit favourable for smaller climbers, and yes, that requires a nice and flexible hip if your 1:85ish like me.
Concerning the grades: I wonder if y'all think the grades in european gyms really do compare to outdoor grades? My feeling is that the gyms are graded 1-2 grades softer than outdoors, at least at my level (around 6b/6c). That red "6a" with the slopy crimps looks more like what I know from Murgtal or Avalonia in that grade than what is called 6a on a kilterboard or an european gym.
Hard or not, i just wanna go to these gyms because i think the setting is amazing.
12:39 a 2-day nap is quite a "little nap"!
You should check out flowstone in Redlands, their setting is ridiculous. Super similar to the 2nd b-pump gym you went to. World class rout setting for sure.
Omg Nobo, a place I’ve actually climbed at! I felt the grades matched pretty well to my local gym in Sweden (but I climb super low grades, so maybe not relevant)
However I think they set more creatively and sketchy than my home gym 😊
That V2 looks very cool, but probably easier than V2 in my gym, I'd say it's more like V1
Whoah, Rocky had the burden replica up!
I worked and climbed at a gym in the 90's. Trad owner, outdoor climbers setting and grading. It was stiff. The beauty was most places you'd climb afterwards seemed so soft (looking at you Red Rocks).😅 Plus it was fun to listen to people whine 'that's not 5.11. That's too hard for 5.11'. 😅😅
The white supposed "V2", looks about right actually. 5+, maaaaybe a soft 6A at my local in the north of England.
if you are in Japan, you should try the "vertical limit burst" and "crazy cliffhanger" from sasuke/ninja warrior.
With your finger strength, I guess you would clear it.
I'm pretty sure the white one in the corner (5:52) would have been a V1 at my local gym. Maybe on an angled wall, which I couldn't tell in the video, would be a V2.
So gradeful, after having climbed in Japan🙏👍
That blue V2 looked like it could've be done much easier by swapping feet on the second last foot hold and layback from the crimp
@@lle9058 Yeah ur right. Just looked like it could be a beta
its not, i remeber trying this bolder, the beta is how Emil made it. Very narrow.
21:38 bro you just got mentioned
i love how the sign had one piece characters on it to show the level of difficulty
Hope you got some nice pins !
Jesus, nice climbing. If I get the chance to go to Japan I feel I will get very humbled :C
To be honest I am kind of tired of this grading fight. Most of my local gym removed the grades and just tell you which climbs are easier and which ones are harder. I kinda dig it
I really really hate that. Huge turnoff for me if a gym does this, unfortunately.
Great video Emil. Did you think that you being taller than most japanese made a difference in your experience of the grades and settings ? Thanks and cheers from Fontainebleau !
Hey mate! It certainly makes a difference in some cases, but most often I would argue it's a lack of skill on my end than me being "too tall"
I’ve climbed in Japanese and Korean gyms, and I would say Korea is almost just as stiff as Japanese gyms. I climb V7 outdoors in the US and over there, I couldn’t get any of the V6-V7 sets even after going back multiple times to project them. The outdoor problems over there felt stiff as well, but not nearly as impossible feeling. The best I ever sent was V6.
Såg fan inte fel ut i Japan! Sjurre video. :)
Would be interesting to hear your thoughts on GP81 in NY. Notoriously the hardest gym in NY but sets generally in a classic outdoorsy style
Do the tour thru Europe to check your theory;) I can recommend Murall in Gdansk, Poland. The level there is quite high I would say;)
For me. Gyms is training.
Climbing is outside, on rock and mountains. Nature.
The feel is just not the same at all.
Gyms will never feel the same.
Also, would love if the climbing world came together and just picked the best grading system.
The "French" version. 7a-c. 8a-c and so on.
When's the USA trip coming?
i would say v2 in my gym for the white one (west coast us commercial climbing gym)
that slab v2 at ogikubo gym would probably be a ladder in my gym
No better place to get a slice of humble-pie than B-Pump Ogikubo
From the video it seems, that the positions favor a bit smaller climbers, which sounds logical in Japan. So somebody as tall as Emil would struggle more in such tight boxes. The V2 slab and other climbs showed exactly that, as I see it.
Good effort though!
🗽 Emil with the 4th Dan (Nidan)... 💪💪💪💪
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There are some gyms in Berlin that do this as well. Some are inflated but others can make a 6b feel like a 7b in other gyms. Outside I noticed that even a 6c can be really difficult, whereas in gyms I can pretty much flash all of them. Don't care about ego, just nice climbs. Nobody will remember your grades anyway unless you're a top tier climber..