Game Over for Retail FnO Trading ? I WeekendInvesting Daily Byte 09 July 2024
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ก.ค. 2024
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Alok is the Founder of Weekend Investing. He has been in the Indian stock markets for almost three decades now and is passionate about building rule based - non discretionary momentum investing models to invest in the markets that can generate superior returns compared to benchmarks . His dream is to try to help others achieve Financial Independence early so that life can be lived to the full, like it has for him.
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I spent 4 years on this. I m in loss but reach to the level I will be in profitable in 1 2 years. Now if margin go up to 2 3 lakhs per lot this just killing hardwork done all these years.
You spoke my heart out brother but let whatever come, we will conquer it!
Me also broo
In the best 4 years of market in almost decades you are in loss. Good luck making profits in FnO
Orr do modi ko vote
@@prateek6567 too quick to judge :)
fyi-many people entered the market after corona, so losses are bound to happen. Good luck to you too
Seems like SEBI is worried about institutional investors having trouble making money against retailers
Don't think so
Big Institutions has been caught on wrong side for quite a while now. Short covering is consistently shooting the market in one direction. Mostly, FII are caught on the wrong foot. And far most retailers' money are their own after taxes unfair to thow them out. If they like they do as they want.
*Having multiple streams of income is a game-changer for stability. Relying solely on a job may not provide enough financial security due to high rates of tax, it is important to explore additional investment opportunities to surpass one"s expectation*
To be honest, investing correctly today can save you a whole lot of stress in the near future
The first step in every successful investment is to establish your goals and risk tolerance, a task best undertaken with the assistance of financial advisor.
I remain eternally grateful to Judy Arianna for her efforts that got me to this point, finally payed off my mortage and all my debts, what more could I"ve asked for. She changed my life
I'm new at this, please how can I reach her?"
Don’t be confuse buying the dip in a bear market, with guaranteed future returns. Just because that company is down 60%+ from ATH does NOT make it a sound long-term investment. Make sure you’re investing in great companies. kudos to Judy Arianna
Increasing the margin to 20-30 lakh dont know who the hell has recommended this...this simply means retail traders stock market is not for you and you don't have any right to come and trade it's a place to make money only for the big players...
Also the upfront money margin for option buyers.
Ya
@@wisemanadvices9541this is most stupid thing I have heard. As an option buyer you can’t lose more than your buy amount. Why need margin for this? 😂 height of stupidity
Future and option is very very very important for liquidity in market without F&O stock market will not survive
Markets used to work without derivatives . It's now being taken up using derivatives money but hen eating 25 times the money thata being trades in cash. So essentially losing 100 and gaining 100 in stock market while all only see this 100 rise in India but no one sees 100 taken out by FII FPI from the country. If that money is invested it will remain only in country and also in ACTUAL assets.
Once the small fishes are gone- the large fishes also will naturally die due to starvation.
Retail traders are giving hard times to institutional traders.
But how
@@harshithachar8186they don't understand the markets man
@@harshithachar8186by loosing more and more money 😂
yeah
Yes this is the only sensible reason, because government gives shit about people.
Sebi is chu ... They don't want small players to grow
SEBI is safe guarding you brother. Don't take it wrong
Not sure if that is the intent
@@madhurjyanath7522 i work hard and make money i am confident in bank nifty i do 3 4 scalp everyday make 600 to 1000 everyday happy
WHY SEBI DOING THIS WILL ONLY DISCOURAGE RETAIL TO PARTICIPATE IN STOCK MARKET .and we never reach where Us Market reached if sebi always ban this or that
Maybe
Because our notorious fin ministry wants to snub retail investors and promote more and more mutual funds so that Indian market can come out of FII clutches and DII+MFs can control
it is like only 10 out of 1000 get selected in isro.... so limit the aspiring candidates by not allowing them to study physics...
only 200 out of 1000 become doctors ... so limit the aspiring students by not allowing them to take biology subject in their higher secondary examination... what is this bull shit... sebi and government do not want the retail that is the middle class of india to become upper middle class or rich... only people like adani's and ambani's should thrive... i guess rahul gandhi and congress people are right in predicting these BJP government...
@@Amoghp38 well said.. crook corrupt sebi..
Well said
The root cause of this rise is that Inflation has gone up but the per capita income is still down, it is hard to manage your life with such a small income on top of that the taxes we give to government, this all has given rise to people moving towards speculative income.
Perfect said
People dont have money...they are under loan and loans
I spent 3 years and learn mistakes and trying to get some profits..but this type of decision is not agreed. ..Indian market always sees retailers ..if this comes into picture the stock market in country is slowed down with less liquidity..Here no one invest in stocks and most of them quit.Even brokerages can't agree.
Ya
Agree with your observations. Investors and traders know the risk. They will automatically get eliminated if they do not manage their positions
Sir, Bahut badhiya, first person seen talking clearly & talking perfect. So SEBi n RBI shouln't take decision on retailers behalf
correctly said. Regulators work is not to take away retail traders. Don’t know why sebi wants people to invest and not trade. Making people just invest is kind of making markets rise, but trading makes market stay to their true price. SEBI is indirectly pumping the markets up by making people invest, this might seem good in short term, but when it will fall it is going to be brutal. SEBI’s goal should be to have good systems for proper price discovery.
Then people do more options buying rather then selling, and retail people loose more money!
True 100, last year they have increased the margin for option selling, Why there should be heavy margin for Intraday option selling. I am quitting trading in NSE.
They support FIIS, no favour for retail traders,
@@antonydavid8200 After 2015 only lot of changes in option trading - BJP will not allow to grow small retailers - they always support Big people - North indian put vote only for BJP then survivie
Daily expiry hona is the biggest culprit in my opinion..month mai ek ya 2 expiry max honi chahiye in my opinion
How can everyone be in profit in stock market..someone has to be in loss for someone to be in profit
They dont want to save - they just want to stop
if SEBI gets a chance they wil also stop retail form direct investment in the markets and tel them to go to Mutual funds
Yes. But who willl offer liquidity
All option sellers, time to cry. SEBI must co-relate retailers' trading with those of smokers !! Whether smokers have reduced smoking due to continuous increase of prices..
Point
Regulators like SEBI / RBI always some ridicule excuse or the other to Stop a Process which is going on Smoothly.... RBI never did show concern when UPA I & UPA II was Boldly engaged in Scams after Scams - RBI was least Bothered about People....
Remove atleast STT TO IMPROVE OUR CASH MARKET BECAUSE CASH MARKET IS CORE
They only Discouraged Retail investors to coming into stock market .Itna charges to koi market me nhi lgta .
The govt is aware that a lot of people are entering share market, may be due to lack of job opportunities. Share market can keep millions of people engaged. Of course, it is high risk area as 90% people make losses. But risk can be controlled, particularly for small traders, by including a check in the trading software. If a trader incurs loss in the first trade, he cannot take next trade during that day. And if he/she makes a profit in the first trade, that profit should be the stop-loss limit for the next trade/s. The system should cut off the trade if loss exceeds. The govt on its part should not tax the loss making trades as it is very unfair to a struggling trader.
If authorities want to really restrict F&O trading by people, then not by increasing tax, but do by restricting number of F&O trades per day to 5 entries would be better idea. Increasing tax will result in same what happens in liquor and cigerette use.
That will not help as many people would say they went in loss because the 6th trade wasn't allowed 😂😢
Your stupid quota logic fails even before it starts.. 😂
This is also not fair. Markets should be left and let the price discovery happen. People who want to lose money have all the rights to do so. They are adults.
I AGREE WITH EVERY SINGLE WORD OF YOUR OPINION
If taxes are exempted for Retail Traders, I feel more then 30% traders automatically become Profitable. :)
Good one
I think people will do satta somewhere else if it's stopped. People who hedge their portfolios will get negatively affected by this
I agree on the hedging part.. but very few are using fno as hedging instrument but in reality many retailers are gambling. So I feel it's a good move to save many people
True
@@gunatvmlooks like your a SEBI official
Restrict FnO, reduce margin on equity trading, how does one make enough daily money without having lacs to invest for trading?
Agree 100%. Retail liquidity is critical for price discovery and reduced bid ask spread.
they they need remove TAX from Cash position
F&O trading is for skill traders... ❤ no need any other tax like 30℅
What leverage tool will be left for individuals?
Lets see
Also with small no of participants, will algo trading work?
there will be plenty
Sir this increase lot size from 5 lakh to 30 lakh this is only for stock option or index . Please clarify
Abhi nothing is final
Hi, I agree with you! In fact, I feel, we should also get rid of circuits and allow the market to move freely! Also we should have slightly sophisticated options like the Barrier and Reef options eyc. Like in the US! Jisko mazaa Lena hai wo poora mazaa le? 😅
Yes, you are right
I agree with ur point that in free market, govt or regulator should not interfere in regular business of market but here case is different. FNO has become pandemic. people without the knowledge of FNO are jumping to become millionaire overnight which itself kills the very purpose of FNO which actually was thought and considered as a hedging tool. further Exchanges made FNO like casino so it was badly due in my view. What is the use of regulator if they cant regulate the market for the good of people
Point
Please help us on how to submit response whenever SEBI comes up with public consultation
Sure will do
Big bois will benefit always
Sir, Can you tell us , the heat map & tabular sector data (Weekly, monthly, quarterly & Yearly) you are using, it is from which website or tools. Can you share the link , please ?
Tradingview me hai free me dikhta hai live market me bhi
Trading view
@@AlokJain Thank you Alok for your response, unable to find sectorial indices in video at time stamp : 3:11 . Can you share your wisdom, how to find that data / steps, please? Looks like you are using other tool, Can you teach us, how you are making it, please ?
@@khansuhail2577 Thank you for your response, unable to find sectorial indices in video at time stamp : 3:11 . Can you share your wisdom, how to find that data / steps, please?
People loosing more money in RUMMY circle, Casino, IPL betting etc first Ban all those.
Does any of it affect option buyers?? If not, then only big fish will be sellers. Buyers lose money as it is.
Don't know
I personally have immense respect towards Sebi. They are doing things like this, which seems unfair and will likely hurt markets and introduce friction in the short term, but over the long term, it will keep the participation from small players maintained. Currently lot of immature traders are entering and blowing up their reservs and then for next 5 years ppl will fully abstain from entering. A forced restriction is ethical from a utilatarian long term perspective. It is the governments job to protect small players from risk. If u have the kind of money needed now to option trade, atleast u will be in an incomebracket which will not blow away life savings if it goes wrong. This easy fast money trend can ruin entire families. I fully support this move by SEBI. It will also ensure a paced growth in the market.
Control the exchanges for having expiry every day... One day expiry per week, as it was earlier..
Feels like SEBI is making way for Reliance rumoured brokerage by killing majority of existing brokers with this decision and I hope they won’t reverting back once reliance launches its brokerage.
Unlikely
Bhai Yeh 20 39 lakh wala samaj nhi aaya.... Anybody jo bata sake... Kya impact hoga Iska... Advance Mein thankyou
Bank nifty ka 1 lot 15 qty se 60-75 ho jayega. To 1 lot buy/ sell krne ka paisa jyada lagega.
Thank you!
Sure thing
wait what! you said "maruti's hybrids are popular Since when? Grand Vitara and Invicto not that popular imo!
Toyota and maruti both have wait lists
Cash market is best
Abb indian market mein liquidity nahi rahega toh ,kaise chalega......
Exactly
I think If theres is less liquidity price will wildly swing, thats going to help players who carefully calibrate their positions... The spread will be wide... Price will be within levels... Big retests in price will happen instead of one sided move...
Ya
Government ke is decision se option seller ko kitna farak pad sakta hai...?
Jab rules apply honge tabhi achhe se maalum chalega
Margins
@@AlokJain option seller ka bhi margin badhega....!?
Matlab bn ka ek lot sell karne me 1L to lag rahe hai.... Ab us se bhi jyada ho jayega...?
After 4yrs of struggle I'm now in a profit zone. Now these taxes will ruin my earnings
Will this stop Options buying? Because thats where most of the retailers are loosing their money compared to options selling. But SEBI is acting against the sellers compared to buyers.
Doubtful
Thank you for being neutral in your commentary about Fno restriction. It's very sensitive matter for many of us. We have put heart and soul to this line of business in last 4 years and then this. Disappointing.
Well said!
Hello Sir, I'm subscriber to your MI MT allcap smallcase and MI 35 previously. Wanted to ask you about your motive to run WI? Are you yourself Financial independent? if yes why are you running WI?
It’s his business bro. He is doing a 👏🏻 great job
@@Prshri1430He is recommending stocks from his smallcase which is violating SEBI Guidelines. Be cautious there is always motive no one does for free
@@Prshri1430 I agree he's doing a great job. But that doesn't answer my question. Every business has a motive, it could be - he's happy doing it, he's doing it for greater good etc. If I would have earned a lot of wealth I would leave all this work and travel the world, live the rest of my life in peace. So, just want to understand his perspective.
Selling gives you money and for buying one needs to invest. Selling courses, options, services all gives money.
Yes financially independent since very long. It is difficult to sit idle. So might as well pursue your passion is the answer you may be looking for. .
The reason is being Indian Household Money goes out from India to Big FII Players. All stakeholder gets their prizes like Taxes, Brokers, Exchanges but India general people are losing big way. That's concerning.
Draconian proposal by SEBI. Restriction should be implemented with both Institutional investors & FII too.
Without having a stock they can manipulate the market with million dollar algorithms without small investors.
Profitable small traders will also be out of the job. Volatility will increase to an unprecedented level as earlier.
Rightly said Retailer will get out dont push this is not good.
I agree with you 100%
From where does this 5 lakhs for a lot calculation come from??? Nifty Min lot is 25, the margin of which is around 1 lakh not 5 lakhs ??
Can anybody clarify ??? So confusing.. Not a single TH-cam video or news is clarifying that ??
25*24000 is 1 lac in which maths?
@@AlokJain I was confused regarding options . The options margin for writing 1 lot of Nifty. For example, currently for writing a 25000 strike with Aug 1 expiry Nifty call, the margin is only around 63,000/- which is nowhere near 5 lakhs. There should have been clarity. Even for Futures, for example, Nifty July 25 Futures the premium is only around 75881 for 1 lot??? Of course the traded value as you replied 25 * 24000 is okay. But as retailers we are only concerned with margins, not the values ??
I too am confused. Not a single post explaining the calculation.
I think if they want to save retail from losses they should reduce the lot size and not increase the lot size. Many retail traders understand the risk and would prefer small lot size
They dont want to save - they just want to stop
if SEBI gets a chance they wil also stop retail form direct investment in the markets and tel them to go to Mutual funds
But my opinion is that govt can't loose their income source
Ye Sab ho rha he government ko tax jyada chahiye.......kuch nahi hoga sirf weekend expiry khatam kro or monthly krdo....kya retailer market me sirf bda paisa ho to hi aa skta he..... Konsa yesa business he jisme risk na ho btaye SEBI??
#boyycutSEBI
Nahi bhai
Instead of this they can revisit the income threshold/proof to be submitted for F&O segment activation. Why not do the same for cigarettes, increase the lot size for buying/smoking cigarettes and save the lives of the poor. People are loosing money in cigarettes and liquor too!
If this volatility in the f n o market is lesser than stocks
Options yes
Why government is taxing so heavily on each n ever activity. On the other way It can help in protecting house hold savings by not taxing the system in an unlogical basis.
Yup. Taxes going up
Exactly i agree with you. Its natural cycle of market. If u have money you are welcome if u don't then stay in equity. Option trading is an individual choice. Its absolutely saying that.SEBI is saving retailers. More than options many many retailers are looking money penny stocks aslo then ban those penny stocks too.Stop dabba trading etc etc..
I came across a article today in which some algo trader has shared data of number of traders by their monthly turnovers. The data says that 80% of active fno traders have monthly turnovers of less than 10 lacs. The shared data says that 77% traders of bottom most turnovers contribute approx 20% to total fno monthly turnover. Which means SEBI is trying to target only 20% of trading volumes with the suggested changes. Which does not justify the proposed changes that SEBI might make. God only knows what SEBI is trying to do and for whom
Agreed
Weekly Expiry should Stopped
Ok
Now FII will have lesser participation
❤❤❤hindi
I loss 32 lakh in 4 years. 25 lakh Personal loan. My situation is worse. Just a inch away from end. Now, I have that knowledge which will help me to recover my loss in few years. But this news is painful.
I had very good chance during election result. I had bike accident and I was unable to trade. Writing this comment while crying. All over for me
Pls stay positive
option buy to chalo lakho mein hogi par wahi option selling crore mein hogi ? to beche ga kon or kharide kon ? kya bhai jinhone salo laga ke inta paisa lagya wo crore mein 1Lot se trade kare ge 🤣
Sebi should release the new data i dont think 9 out 10 traders are in losses now the ratio has improved and sebi is concerned because traders are making more money than the monthly salary of sebi chairperson (3-4 lakhs)😂
When people don't have sufficient easy earning opportunities then in growing economies people do get attracted to fast money with high return
Yes
Only one solution - To entering F&O segment demat needs older than 1/2 years .
Good criterion
This will only help institutions basically retailer can't sell options and hence he will remain in losses if they stuck to option buying lol
Small retailers shall move out their collateral stocks & ETF and this shall result in excess supply.
SEBI may force some market players out of the market, but still of the remaining participants 90% will lose money, that can't change, this is true of most professions and trading is arguably the hardest profession.
ya
Traders will look into crypto. All the best
ya
Justification from sebi was funny, like large player have money in cash and play(retail investors borrow money 🤑),strike price will hurt the market
Yes not a good reason
World over including US 90% people loose money & 10% gain in option trading. because 90% contracts go worthless in whole world markets
Kerala govt is running lottery business with everyday luckydraw.Minimum rate for lottery is 50Rs and bumper ones are changed 300/500etc.Expected revenue for govt from this in FY25 is 10k crore and thats more than 10% revenue for the govt.97% of people are losing money .They’re not HNIs small daily wage workers with 600/800 are spending 10%/20% of their income for this madness.Its not speculation its not calculation its pure luck gambling.Yet this is a sacred act by govt to provide employment and generate revenue in this country and FnO is a SIN..!What yeah people who trade with charts,analysis,strategies,risk management,atleast some knowledge,calculation they are sinners where a pure looting by govt is sacred.Interesting Right..!
Why only retailers are being targeted? Its a non-sense
Retail participants shd get their voice heard
F&O is no different from gambling. It must be restricted.
Govt have lot of income from f n o frame
Let's go back to day trading stocks then 😏
Small traders loses heavy
It simply means. There is no place for middle class.
Not correct I think
I have to wait 3 years for collect money for 1 lot margin to hedge my portfolio now rules changed you rich never understand us @@AlokJain
Its opening a way to ambani to enter into brokerage industry .
How does that help
Ho Jane de re yr...video khoob aa gyi..ab sare isi pe video bna k daloge
Ok
SEBI is taking away the opportunity from small retail traders who are trying to achieve something in the derivatives market. Atleast dont touch nifty and BNF where liquidity is very good to trade. Or ban naked trading will be a good option.
Let's see
First comment
Totally unfair from authorities
Road tax and registration fee is different 😢😮
Ya
If the household savings are to increase, Govt should consider offering more interest on Fixed Deposits say 10% and above, to wean away the retailers from stock markets. Collect more taxes from institutional investors and pay the retailers. The smiling face representing SEBI seems keen on controlling the retail traders.
No way
SEBI SHOULD MAKE option Trading Course 3month long and every one must qualify with Exam Results above 90% and Capital of 10lac min with Wealth of 25lacs. Reduce expiry to One day on Thusday every week for all Indices as before.
Every Option seller traders should not take more than 10cr exposure in a day and option buyer not more than 25lac.
For a buyer no restrictions.
Good ones
just bring what was there in 2019 BEBI
ok